armenian "Genocide"

aslanlar · 10-12-2007, 09:52 AM

Were the events of 1915-18 in the Ottoman empire a genocide against the armenians or are they just shouting for reperations and land?

What do you think?

Fenerliyim · 10-14-2007, 12:42 AM

absolutly not, just a sad side effect of the war, no proof watsoever of Ottoman Govt actually giving out commands to kill all armenians. To relocate yes, to massacre no. Many Armenians still live in Istanbul and are doing very well off, u ask them and they'll say no. Even the Armenian Patriach says it didnt happen.

Armenians are just trying to get land and money from turkey, both of which will never happen.

Like Churchill said "Lies will go half way around the world before truth even puts her boots on"

boris4c · 10-14-2007, 01:01 AM

It is widely acknowledged to have been one of the first modern, systematic genocides,[3][4] as many Western sources point to the sheer scale of the death toll as evidence for a systematic, organized plan to eliminate the Armenians.[5] The event is also said to be the second-most studied case of genocide after the Holocaust.[6] To date twenty-two countries have officially recognized it as genocide

The United States have also declared just a few days ago that there has been a genocide on the Armenian people.

poutismalakas · 10-14-2007, 01:05 AM

IT did HAPPEN along with the Assyrians who where killed as well!!!

Deny it all you want!

Fenerliyim · 10-14-2007, 01:09 AM

The united states hasnt declared anything yet, its only gone through at the lowest level, first the house of reps have to vote, if it passes there then the senate votes, and bush will veto it and no way do they have 2/3 of the majority in the senate to get it passed.

the UK, Isreal, and USA have not accepted the genocide. And those probably the top 3 powerful countries in the world.

Anyway y r armenians so keen on having politicians decided on this issue rather than historians?

Bernard Lewis, a professor of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton says it may well be likely that a million Armenians died, but he asserts that there's no evidence that the Turkish government made a "deliberate preconceived decision" to carry out massacres.

The numbers Armenians declare are very ridiculous, the population of armenians were around maybe 1.3 million according to Ottoman, UK, and other countries archives on the other hand they declare 2.5-3.5 million armenians lived in the Ottoman Empire.

How did we kill 1.5 million armenians when there were only 1.3 million? And near 500,000 thousand turks died during the war to hunger and famine, and armenians claim 0 deaths happened because of hunger and famine.

poutismalakas · 10-14-2007, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenerliyim

The united states hasnt declared anything yet, its only gone through at the lowest level, first the house of reps have to vote, if it passes there then the senate votes, and bush will veto it and no way do they have 2/3 of the majority in the senate to get it passed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenerliyim

the UK, Isreal, and USA have not accepted the genocide. And those probably the top 3 powerful countries in the world.

That doesn't mean anything cause Israel needs Turkey and so does the US!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenerliyim

Anyway y r armenians so keen on having politicians decided on this issue rather than historians?

MOST people believed this happened! EVEN Hitler used this as model for the Final Solution!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenerliyim

Bernard Lewis, a professor of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton says it may well be likely that a million Armenians died, but he asserts that there's no evidence that the Turkish government made a "deliberate preconceived decision" to carry out massacres.

Maybe because the records where destroyed after the Turks saw what happened to the Germans atfter WWII??? Or the The Turks refuse to release them!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenerliyim

The numbers Armenians declare are very ridiculous, the population of armenians were around maybe 1.3 million according to Ottoman, UK, and other countries archives on the other hand they declare 2.5-3.5 million armenians lived in the Ottoman Empire.

How did we kill 1.5 million armenians when there were only 1.3 million? And near 500,000 thousand turks died during the war to hunger and famine, and armenians claim 0 deaths happened because of hunger and famine.

BEcause there was more Armenians than that!

Look what I found

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman...ian_population

Armenian population prior to 1878

In 1844 the Ottoman recorded 2.4 million Armenians within the Ottoman Empire. In 1867 this number remained the same. It is not known whether this lack of change was due to a political decision not to record any Armenian growth for a period of 23 year!!!

poutismalakas · 10-14-2007, 01:25 AM

Face it your people commited things like this 90 years ago!!!

poutismalakas · 10-14-2007, 01:35 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamidian_massacres

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adana_massacre

poutismalakas · 10-14-2007, 01:41 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_genocide

Fenerliyim · 10-14-2007, 01:42 AM

1. Our Archives are wide open, we even proposed a joint research with armenia, but u know wat armenia rejected cause they know they'll find nothing. Yet the armenians Dashnak archives in the US and the archives of the Armenian Patriarch in Jerusalem, they are restricted i.e. only those that have the view of the armenians are allowed in, i wont be suprised if it works the same way in Armenia

2. That population is armenian propaganda shit

here is a list of armenian populations by all groups:

The Armenian author Leart, based on figures Provided by the Patriarchate of Istanbul 2,560,000
The Armenian historian Basmajian 2,380,000
The Armenian National Committee at the Paris Peace conference 2,250,000
The Armenian historian Kevork Aslan 1,800,000
The French Yellow Book 1,555,000
Encyclopedia Britannica 1,500,000
Constenson I, 400,000
Lynch 1,345,000
0fficial Ottoman census statistics for 1914 1,295,000
Annual Register (London) 1,056,000

As u can see the ottomman census of 1.3 million armenians is in the middle of the foriegn sources which range from 1 mil to 1.6. So imo Ottomans generally had the right population.

Also armenians at first claimed 600,000 deaths, later 800,000 and then finally 1.5 million probably be 3 mil soon

we admit their were deaths but none systamatically planned. Please Poutis or anyone else show me proof where u can see that it was ordered to kill all those armenians, please show me.

poutismalakas · 10-14-2007, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenerliyim

1. Our Archives are wide open, we even proposed a joint research with armenia, but u know wat armenia rejected cause they know they'll find nothing. Yet the armenians Dashnak archives in the US and the archives of the Armenian Patriarch in Jerusalem, they are restricted i.e. only those that have the view of the armenians are allowed in, i wont be suprised if it works the same way in Armenia

2. That population is armenian propaganda shit

here is a list of armenian populations by all groups:

The Armenian author Leart, based on figures Provided by the Patriarchate of Istanbul 2,560,000
The Armenian historian Basmajian 2,380,000
The Armenian National Committee at the Paris Peace conference 2,250,000
The Armenian historian Kevork Aslan 1,800,000
The French Yellow Book 1,555,000
Encyclopedia Britannica 1,500,000
Constenson I, 400,000
Lynch 1,345,000
0fficial Ottoman census statistics for 1914 1,295,000
Annual Register (London) 1,056,000

As u can see the ottomman census of 1.3 million armenians is in the middle of the foriegn sources which range from 1 mil to 1.6. So imo Ottomans generally had the right population.

Also armenians at first claimed 600,000 deaths, later 800,000 and then finally 1.5 million probably be 3 mil soon

we admit their were deaths but none systamatically planned. Please Poutis or anyone else show me proof where u can see that it was ordered to kill all those armenians, please show me.

WHY does the Turks "need Armenians" when they can release their so'called impartial records????

Your People commited genocide! Just like The Serbs who refuse to accept their dark side the Turks do so as well!

Fenerliyim · 10-14-2007, 01:48 AM

Poutis look at british, american, french sources, then look at ottoman and armenian sources?

Which one is closer to the british,american and french sources, the Ottomans archives or the armenian archives.

Obviously the armenians have overexaggerated by a million

poutismalakas · 10-14-2007, 01:55 AM

Ok what happened to the Census of 1848 which has the Armenian pop as 2.6 million! I highly doubt the Armenians stop breeding?

poutismalakas · 10-14-2007, 01:56 AM

Also I never said the admittance should give Armenians a right to land and/or cash!

Also the Armenians in Turkey refuse to say anything or else their jailed for "Insulting Turkishness"

Fenerliyim · 10-14-2007, 02:01 AM

Look at present day armenia, the population rate is negative, its just going down. Its called migrating to other countries like france and usa.

And 1848 is about 70 yrs before the war, the Ottoman Empire was declining, we had the Crimean war and Russo-turko war, remember ottoman military was not only made up turks, it was multi-ethnic and armenians made a pretty big part. Also a lot of armenians sided with russia during the russo-turko war as well. Probably a lot of deaths there.