Toronto Stadium Thread

[Joe MacCarthy]

Funny how we haven't heard news about the stadium design itself. Was the idea to take out the upper deck on this design?

[Joe MacCarthy]

Or is it this?

[Joe MacCarthy]

Soccer deal still in play
MLSE has month to land MLS team City council will talk it over Oct. 26

JIM BYERS AND RANDY STARKMAN
SPORTS REPORTERS

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...=1044529386490

Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment has just a month to close a deal to bring a Major League Soccer team to Toronto for 2007, a top MLSE official said yesterday.

Backers of a proposed 20,000-seat soccer stadium at Exhibition Place say the deadlines are manageable. But they say there are still a variety of groups that have to provide their stamp of approval before construction can begin in January.

MLSE President Richard Peddie yesterday acknowledged that his group, which owns the Leafs and Raptors, would put millions of dollars of its money into the stadium, which has been pegged at a cost of $60 million. Peddie has repeatedly said MLSE would like to buy into Major League Soccer, which operates 12 teams south of the border, and bring a team to Toronto.

"It was our preference to be a tenant in a building, but to be a tenant in a building that doesn't exist doesn't work," Peddie told the Star. "The only way to get the building done is for MLSE to step up. We not only bring our expertise to the project of knowing how to build a major stadium on budget and on time, but we also have the few million missing to get a quality stadium built."

The federal government is supposed to kick in $27 million for the stadium, which will host games in the FIFA world youth soccer championships in the summer of 2007. Another $8 million is to come from Queen's Park, while the city of Toronto recently pledged $9.5 million. It's believed MLSE will contribute $8 million or more for the facility, which could be built so it can be easily expanded to 25,000 or even 30,000 seats.

Peddie said MLSE would run the stadium and would provide a short-term guarantee against operating losses.

Peddie said MLSE has "exclusivity to get a Major League Soccer franchise. But it's disappearing and other cities are anxiously waiting on the sidelines."

MLS chief operating officer Mark Abbott didn't want to comment on the timing of an MLSE application for a soccer team. But he said yesterday he's been in regular contact with MLSE and the CSA and that Major League Soccer's board of governors could vote on a Toronto franchise at any time.

It's been reported the last two teams awarded by MLS — clubs in Salt Lake City and L.A. — cost nearly $10 million (U.S.).

In addition to being home to an MLS club, Pipe said the Ex stadium could be a new home for the Toronto Lynx of the United Soccer League.

Pipe said he's not anticipating any problems in meeting the various deadlines to get the Ex stadium built. The CSA's board will discuss the issue Oct. 15, while the Exhibition Place board of governors will vote sometime after that. Toronto city council is supposed to debate the matter Oct. 26.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Toronto soccer stadium closer to happening
By NEIL DAVIDSON

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/200...268102-cp.html

TORONTO (CP) - Plans for a soccer-specific stadium in Toronto moved one step closer Tuesday when the major players in the plan struck a deal to manage the proposed facility.

The Canadian Soccer Association, City of Toronto and Maple Leafs & Sports Entertainment concluded an agreement on how to run the stadium.

There are still several more hurdles still to cross before the 20,000-seat venue becomes a reality but the management deal is important. The stadium will become the property of the City, which owns the land, and Toronto officials were unlikely to approve $9.5 million of city funding unless they were happy with the plan to run the venue.

Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, which needs the stadium for its bid for a Major League Soccer expansion franchise, is expected to run the venue at Exhibition Place near the waterfront. As such, it had its own expectations for a management deal.

And the Canadian Soccer Association, as the go-between and deal-broker, needed both sides to be happy.

Those goals seemingly accomplished, the stadium project now goes before several key groups.

First up is the Exhibition Place board of governors, which meets Wednesday on the issue. It has to approve the project.

The stadium also has to get the green light from city council's policy and finance committee on Oct. 20 and then from the full council (44 councillors and the mayor) on Oct. 26.

Major League Soccer gave MLSE and the City until Oct. 31 to sort out the stadium issue, threatening to look elsewhere for an expansion home unless the issue was settled.

The federal government has pledged $27 million with another $8 million from the provincial government. If the city provides its $9.65 million, that leaves a little more than $17 million needed for the $62-million project.

Naming rights and a contribution from MLSE are expected to make up that shortfall.

The 12-team MLS added two new franchises this season: Real Salt Lake and FC Chivas, which plays out of Carson, Calif. Those expansion franchises cost $10 million US apiece.

MLS says the expansion price tag this time will be "slightly higher."

The league is looking for a second expansion team in 2007, with the leading candidates Cleveland, Philadelphia, Houston, Milwaukee and St. Louis, Garber said.

Exhibition Place is located opposite Ontario Place on the lakefront. It used to be home to the Toronto Argos and Blue Jays at Exhibition Stadium, and currently houses the American Hockey League's Marlies at the Ricoh Coliseum.

[Brantford_Tim]

Originally Posted by Joe MacCarthy

Or is it this?

This is the one i believe that was selected, and IMHO the better of the two,
not that the other one was bad at all. I just glad this thing is getting the go ahead at long last. Maybe there is some good things ahead for canadian soccer.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Stadium's finances a concern
Proposed soccer venue short $2M
By DEAN McNULTY -- Toronto Sun

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/Ca...270810-sun.html

No matter how you do the math, a proposed 20,000-seat soccer stadium to be built on the CNE grounds still is nearly $2 million shy of its estimated $64-million construction cost.

And the starting price of stadiums, no matter how small, rarely bares any resemblance to its final tally.

The City of Toronto and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd. -- owners of the Maple Leafs and the Raptors -- have agreed in principal to build the facility that will house an expansion Major League Soccer team owned by MLSEL and be home to the 2007 FIFA under-17 world championship.

City council approved a scheme this week that would see MLSEL ante up $18 million, the city $9.8 million, the province $8 million and the feds $27 million for the project.

According to the deal, the city would be the owner and landlord of the stadium, with MLSEL signing a long-term contract for its proposed soccer squad.

Construction of the stadium on the site of the Canadian Autosports Hall of Fame is scheduled to start in January, just enough time for completion by the 2007 season.

MLSEL has an Oct. 31 deadline to get approval for the stadium in order to get a MLS franchise.

But not everybody is happy that local taxpayers will have to bear the the brunt for almost $10 million of the stadium's building costs, plus a continuing contribution in annual operating costs.

At a meeting yesterday of the Canadian National Exhibition board of governors, concerned citizen Alan Kasperski spoke against the plan.

"This is plain and simple an example of taxpayers subsidizing professional sports," Kasperski said.

Kasperski claims that the city has no business entering into a deal that would benefit commercial operations like MLSEL.

"MLSEL built the Air Canada Centre at a cost of $250 million using all private money," he said. "So why can't those same people pay for their own soccer stadium?"

Kasperski said that there appears to be a rush to okay this deal so that MLSEL can get its MSL franchise in time for the 2007 season.

"Why can't they play in the Rogers Centre?" he said. "There are a number of MLS teams that currently share National Football League stadiums in their cities."

Kasperski's main beef is based on the fact that there are facilities owned by the city that would fit the bill for amateur soccer.

"Lamport Stadium only needs a re-fit that would lift it from an eyesore to a usable multi-sport facility that would seat 10,000 or more at much less cost than building a brand new stadium at CNE," Kasperski said.

Kasperski noted that a similar sized soccer stadium in Chicago started at $75 million US but ballooned to $95 million when completed.

MLSEL president Richard Peddie said the negotiations were difficult and he's not calling it done until it has full council approval, but he's convinced this stadium can make money for both sides.

"We're a business and we look for a rate of return," Peddie said.

Council's finance committee meets today to give its seal of approval to the deal.

-- with files from Rob Granatstein.

[toronto_soccer]

one small note about the latest 2 franchises in mls. real salt lake paid $10 million expansion fee while cd chivas had to pay $25 million. chivas paid 10 mil for expansion, another 10 for playing in l.a. galaxy's region, and another 5 mil for sharing the home depot centre.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Soccer deal is a good one

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists...79150-sun.html

When public officials start talking about sports facilities, history tells us to be skeptical. Suspicious, even.

The old "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" rule applies.

What happens, then, when you fool me 10 times? Or 20, as politicians have done over the generations?

So, if nothing else, the great stadium debate of 2005 already has revealed plenty of agnostics among us and that's healthy. These kinds of deals need more scrutiny, not less.

Having said that, at some point this week, we imagine city council is going to vote overwhelmingly to put its stamp of approval on a $72.8-million Exhibition Place stadium deal that will finally give this city's soccer afficionados a first-class facility and a professional soccer team to play in it.

And, as long as we can believe the deal as it has been represented, council will have done the right thing. Such a stadium is long overdue, though we wish the soccer community and that includes the Canadian Soccer Association, could have played a larger financial role in the proceedings.

As it stands right now, a larger financial role is defined as a nickel, a dime, a quarter. Anything. The CSA purports to represent millions of soccer players and fans, yet when it comes to drumming up a little dough, they are both hopeless and helpless.

So, we are going to pay for this 20,000-seat stadium with public money but if anybody thinks this is the next SkyDome fiasco, then he hasn't read the fine print.

First of all, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment is assuming responsibility for all construction cost over-runs and there is a real chance there will be over-runs. Once they get approval, construction will have to be maintained at a breathtaking pace to get the building ready for the start of the Major Soccer League season in April 2007, well ahead of time for the world under-20 championship later that summer. At best, MLSEL will have about 15 months to get the job done.

"We have assumed all the financial risk on construction," said MLSEL CEO Richard Peddie, "and, yes, we're tight for time. As far as we're concerned, everything should have happened yesterday."

Second, MLSEL is going to cover annual operating losses up to $250,000 and share equally with the city any losses beyond that. In addition to running the stadium, MLSEL will own and operate the Major League Soccer team but any losses incurred by the team will have no bearing on the profit or loss on stadium operations. The MLS team will pay rent commensurate with other teams in the league and well in line with those paid by major tenants in other stadiums.

Of course, MLSEL doesn't expect to lose money on the operation of the team, or the building.

"We're in this because we wanted the team," said Peddie. "We think Toronto is ready for a team like this. And we also believe we can put enough events in there to make the stadium an economic success, as well. We expect to be able to fill 100 dates."

The entire pitch will be enclosed, with seating all around, though only about 2,500 seats will be located in the end zones.

An important feature, perhaps a lookahead to the day a few years from now when the Argonauts want out of the Rogers Centre, is that the stadium will be constructed in a way that 10,000 seats could be added at a later date. It is entirely likely that, if the Argos ever come up for sale, MLSEL will be among the suitors.

During the 18 days of the annual Canadian National Exhibition, the stadium would be available for various events related to the Ex and, at other times when it is not in use by its regular tenants, a number of community and cultural events will gravitate to the stadium. You also can expect the new park to see plenty of international soccer friendlies, as well.

In the final analysis, it is hard to imagine such a place becoming a white elephant, simply because of its location in the midst of all the facilities that already exist at the CNE grounds.

So, all you skeptics, take your best shot. The ghosts of stadia past surely have earned all your suspicions. This time, though, the deal looks clean.

---

THE COST OF A SOCCER STADIUM

A look at the proposed soccer stadium at the CNE:

- Cost: $72.8 million

- Financial breakdown:

- Federal government $27 million

- Province of Ontario $8 million

- City of Toronto $19.8 million (cash, land)

- Maple Leaf Sports and Ent. $8 million

- Naming rights: $10 million (to be sold by MLSEL)

- Ownership: City of Toronto

- Management: MLSEL (20-year contract)

- Target date: Spring 2007

- Construction cost overruns: MLSEL

- Profit: Shared equally between city and MLSEL

- Losses: MLSEL responsible for first $250,000, annually. City and MLSE share equally all losses beyond that.

[RaulMadrid7]

It would be great to finally have a descent soccer stadium here in Toronto.

And I can guarantee many soccer fans here will attend etc...

But it's going to take alot more than this to expand the soccer atmosphere here since it's dominated by Hockey and Baseball which are in my opinion the most boring sports on the planet to watch.

By the way what's gonna happen to the Toronto Lynx?

[Joe MacCarthy]

The politicians and their ilk have done their best so far to screw it up but it looks like everyone is finally on board.

The fate of the Lynx I would say is up to the Hartrells. The decision they have to make is whether they want to remain in the USL or if they can somehow negotiate a minor league agreement with MLSE. I have my doubts about that.

By the by Raul, why doesn't your sig have a Canadian NT in it?

[Joe MacCarthy]

Canadian Soccer Association
Thursday, October 27, 2005
Exhibition Place Stadium Proposal Approved

http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/medi...?Press_ID=2339


Photo: Brisbin Brook Beynon, Architects

Ottawa, Ontario - The Canadian Soccer Association and its partners - Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment (MLSE), the Ontario and Federal Governments as well as the City of Toronto - have been given the approval of Toronto City’s Council to construct a 20,000 seat soccer-specific stadium on the grounds of Exhibition Place.

City council voted 25 to 13 in favour of the stadium project.

'I applaud the council for acting in the best interest of the City of Toronto, for a wide variety of community groups and all Torontonians in general. The stadium and its construction will create jobs, drive economic development and tourism, and create a larger stage for Toronto to hold international sports and entertainment events. It will also support further growth for soccer in Canada,' said Richard Peddie, President of MLSE.

'We look forward to working with the three levels of government as we prepare for construction of the stadium in early 2006 and while we finalize our franchise agreement with Major League Soccer.'

The $62.8-million stadium is being built specifically for the staging of the FIFA World Youth Championship - Canada 2007 that will kickoff in July 2007 in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Edmonton, Vancouver and Victoria and will be the largest single-sport event ever held in Canada.

The biennial event is second only to the FIFA World Cup™ in size and scope and will showcase the most talented under-20 soccer players in the world. The tournament has been the coming-out party for some of the game’s top players - Maradona, Saviola, Raúl, Marco Van Basten, Luis Figo, Rui Costa, Thierry Henry, Adriano, Roberto Carlos, Bebeto and Dunga as well as Canada’s Craig Forrest and many members of the current Men’s World Cup Team including Julian de Guzman, Paul Stalteri, Atiba Hutchinson and Iain Hume.

The facility will also be a regular home for both the Men’s and Women’s National Teams as well as a home for thousands of players in the Greater Toronto Area. The City of Toronto-owned stadium will have an air-filled bubble erected over the playing surface during the winter months, guaranteeing a minimum of 100 days of community usage throughout the year.

The city council vote now paves the way for the stadium be the home of Toronto’s newest professional sports franchise.

Major League Soccer (MLS) Commissioner Don Garber announced on October 11, 2005 that Maple Leafs Sports & Entertainment had been granted the exclusive rights through October 31, 2005 to negotiate an agreement to acquire the rights to a Major League Soccer expansion team that will commence play in Toronto in 2007.

'Toronto would be an excellent addition to Major League Soccer under the leadership of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, one of the preeminent sports and entertainment companies in the world,' Commissioner Garber said. 'We are enthusiastic about bringing an MLS team to Toronto and are prepared to host the 2008 All-Star Game and an MLS Cup in Toronto by 2012.'

Funding for the project will be come from a number of sources.

The Federal Government, through Infrastructure Canada, has agreed to contribute $27-million while the Ontario Government has committed a further $8-million.

MLSE has agreed to pay a total of $18-million ($8-million toward the construction and a further $10-million to secure the naming rights for the stadium). The group has also agreed to provide a $2-million guarantee against operational losses.

The City of Toronto will contribute $9.8-million and will own the stadium. In the agreement struck with the City of Toronto, Exhibition Place, the CSA, and MLSE in mid-October, the sports and entertainment company would be responsible for the management of the facility.

[Brantford_Tim]

The only real problems with this is the artifical turf . Will the CSA play any internationals here? Will any foreign teams want to play on it? Are the argo's
going to end up here via MLSE ownership?

[Brantford_Tim]

Originally Posted by Joe MacCarthy

The politicians and their ilk have done their best so far to screw it up but it looks like everyone is finally on board.

The fate of the Lynx I would say is up to the Hartrells. The decision they have to make is whether they want to remain in the USL or if they can somehow negotiate a minor league agreement with MLSE. I have my doubts about that.

By the by Raul, why doesn't your sig have a Canadian NT in it?

Bruno has been bad mouthing this project from the start...who needs him now?.....noooooooobody

[Brantford_Tim]

Originally Posted by RaulMadrid7

It would be great to finally have a descent soccer stadium here in Toronto.

And I can guarantee many soccer fans here will attend etc...

But it's going to take alot more than this to expand the soccer atmosphere here since it's dominated by Hockey and Baseball which are in my opinion the most boring sports on the planet to watch.

By the way what's gonna happen to the Toronto Lynx?

I'll be at the games

[Joe MacCarthy]

Originally Posted by Brantford_Tim

The only real problems with this is the artificial turf. Will the CSA play any internationals here? Will any foreign teams want to play on it? Are the Argo's going to end up here via MLSE ownership?

I was saying that a long time ago about MLSE and the Argos. They were looking at buying the Argos or getting a stake in it when the initial U of T shenanigans were going on (IIRC) It's easy to see that MLSE will become the sports conglomerate trying to operate every sports entity in the city (save the Jays) with cross promoting and various media channels.

I wonder if the Argos will work a deal with the Roger's Centre a la the Alouettes. If they move to this new stadium as Argo ownership has hinted in five years time (when their RC contract is up) the stadium would have to have a capacity of 30,000 (up from 20,000)

In the CFL, averaging 25,000 in attendance is the break even point. Obviously the Argos can't do that in a stadium seating 20,000, same for the Whitecaps/Lions. The Montreal Alouettes are able to compensate for their 20,000 seat stadium by playing their final season games in 60,000 seat Olympic Stadium. McGill Stadium will also be expanded to seat 25,000 by 2007.

Steve Simmons (notoriously negative writer) has just written a very positive article on the resurgence of the Argos who attracted 40,000 vs Hamilton and will possibly sell out there playoff date(s) (over 50,000)

Re the artificial turf, I wrote a big post for it at the US soccer forum.
http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/...1&postcount=12

It's the way of the future whether fans/players like it or not. It's the only way for the public and the pros to share access to that stadium. Turf could not take that abuse with the amount of use it will get. They're putting a bubble on it for winter use as well.

We played well on it at our WCQ qualifier in CR (we lost) better than we did at two poor condition turf fields in Edmonton and Kingston. FieldTurf is still a better alternative to most Concacaf fields. If it's a qualifier other countries will have to play on it, if it's a friendly it's their (other country's) choice.

They've targeted six international games for the first year at the new stadium (that's men, women, age groups).