It took me an hour to read all of this.. quite interesting.. I wont be able to comment on every point there.. But in the beginning I`d say that I agree with some of what have been writing there.. although there are some points that cant be so plain (specially for you) maybe because you didnt read the all Quran yet (as I see you mentionned you are reading now..).. so maybe I`ll give you some infos and you shall see them yourselves when you get to each in the Quran..
Before going into the start with the Kabba subject which in my first years of thinking about the Quran and Islam and studying about it.. I realized that there are many many things that really have no explanation.. I continued on realizing that untill I found out that the Quran itself is a wired book! the fact is that the Quran also doesnt give you the truth on a plate as everyone would wish in this life.. and so is the religion..
meaning..
what was the point of telling us the truth with giving us the absolute evidence after all this?? after all of this billions and billions of years that passed on evolutions, nations, history of creations, and other things that happend before the becoming to the phsycal existance that we really dont know.. or perhaps as God pointed in a flashy style in the Quran.. THAT WE DO NOT REMEMBER.. (you`ll see that in may versus God says that "the Quran is just to make us remember" to remember what? were we soemthing before this?? is this like a part of a deal? were we alve in another place and this earth is another chance or a test for us then we will return agaiun to where we bvelong? to where? and from what? of what we were before coming to the theatre of life.. words that can be understood that before this life we had an existance in another essence, and this life is a dimention made by God for some purpose.. ).. (btw.. the assumations and explanations here are not from a religgius book or anything of that.. those are things that Ive been thinking about and inspred from what Ive been through with the Quran. only few scientists in the mideast have the balls to think and write about those subjects that represnt facts about the Quran that are so scary.. that always been criticeised by the Muslim commuinty and shieks.. cause it`s wired for them.... this reflects the same idea that you were talking about.. that ppl critices what they are not getting used to.. soemthing lie that.. evenif it`s getting you closer to the truth).
The catch is that there were no need for loving or caring or dying for anything in this life if we have been given the aswers plainly.. THERE WERE NO NEED FOR BRAINS IF WE WIL BE TREATED FROM GOOD AS ROBOTS.. and this is by giving us a plain sign or like that God would appear to us or to send us an angel from the sky or will send an immortal prophet that will start lving since the frst day the Human being has been formed on earth untuill the end of time.. that would have been so self ambivaiant!!
What was the need for an intelligent brain then to have such amazing functions of searching and seeking knowledge with a puishing factor of needing to get to perfection as a sense of most satisfaction!!?
Why would you think that Kuran or bible or any other book or religion that came from God to be called as the truth should be the perfect teachinging with no mistakes as it will be the only proof and sign that it`s from God the most perfect! and that everyone naturally should obey without a question??
The truth is that it is not.. but that`s not because it`s not from God.. that is because God wants that.. you`ll read in the Quran that God says that this Quran is from God.. and that there will be belivers.. and there will be non belivers.. and you`ll read about heaven and hell.. THE SUBJECT ABOUT HEAVEN AND HELL IS NOT AS A SILLY ATTEMPT TO ENCOURAGE NON BELIVERS TO BELIVE SO THEY`LL GET THE CANDIES IN HEAVEN!! LIKE LITTLE BABIES! OR TO SCARE THEM AND TERRORISE THEM SO THEY`D BELIVE! NO!.. because you`ll read that God said that he is the one to decide who will belive and who will not.. so the subject is NOT you to belive or not.. the subject is that IS GOD WANTS YOU TO BELIVE OR NOT?.. the Koran after all is just words.. and Muhammed wont live forever to force ppl to be muslims and to belive forever! (as many ignorants insist to think that he did.. anyway)..
Before going ahead reading the Quran.. I`d like to give you the real defination of the Quran through my vision and experiance.. the Quran is not words of allah been given in Arabic language so that 90% of Arabic speakers will be muslims beliving in it.. the Quran is a being, it`s more like a creature.. the Quran has a 3 different faces or essences or natures in the same time.. first it can converse with anyone in any period of time because of it`s plain simple words and it`s specific choosed words.. the second one is that the Quran contains a huge number of puzzles and codes that just been discovered in the time when the science been evoluted fastly.. specially in the last 50 years.. there were words in the Quran that had a simple meaning and that the shieks had simple meanings that they think it is.. and they diversed exlpaining it.. but only in the recent years it suddenly came to make sense.. that`s how some inteligent arabic sintist start to realize that the Qurna wasnt just speaking to the arabic world in the times of the cave men, but it also has messages for the future man!! the words of the Quran were always been there.. but surprisly only recently and after 1400 years it seems like the Quran still has something new to say.. and only then the scientist (arab ones) started to put the Qurna in Computer sofwares and the started hestirically count the words and number every single letter in every single Sora and verse!.. and they started to explore the Quran again using what the Quran said.. and they found out amazingly that the Quran mentioned it in an indirect way.. the Quran said that the sun is the one running around the earth, and that the earth isnt falt, and the the moon doesnt shine by itself and that we are been diversed by our finger prints.. actully what has been discovered so far is not everything! there are many words in the Quran that cant be difined and havnt been explained yet! even by Muhammed himself!! do you think there is a crazy man that would like to be famous would put things that he does not know? is this gives you any famous or serve your new religioun poplic campian?? if you ask me it makes no sense!! maybe Muhamed should have taken some commercial courses so he`ll make his commerical campin to enter the islam less imperfect than this!..
What really amazs you that the Quran came so ambivaiant with Muhamed`s Life.. meaning.. when Muhammed`s most beloved wife Khadiga died.. the Quran came in the same time speaking about soemthing esle.. and in the same time his most beloved Uncle died and his only son.. the Quran conituned coming without even reflecting any signs of sadness in life!! which in the human phsycic law is impossible.. if you are writing something yourself specailly about life.. this this whateve you write should be reflecting out your current feelings and thoughts! maybe Muhammed wast a human being? maybe!..
Ok.. what about this one.. some times the Quran itself come so self ambivaiant with Muhammed`s says and acts!!..
there was a situation when Muhammed walked away from a blind and didnt give him an attection.. and then the Quran after this scene came with this:
1. (The Prophet) frowned and turned away, 2. Because there came to him the blind man (interrupting). 3. But what could tell thee but that perchance he might grow (in spiritual understanding)?- 4. Or that he might receive admonition, and the teaching might profit him? (Surah 80. He Frowned!)
Does Muhammed always like to embrasse himself or something?? ok, maybe he is a good actor.. well.. what about this one:
67. It is not fitting for an apostle that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.
68. Had it not been for a previous ordainment from Allah, a severe penalty would have reached you for the (ransom) that ye took. (Surah 8. Spoils Of War)
Why would he put this in a book for a religion, to remind himself of something?.. everything is possible..
just another one.. :
9. Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the apostles, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. (
Surah 46. The Wind-curved Sandhills)
I think he is stating that he knows nothing about anything and he has no resbonsabilties.. or soemthing like that.. he saying that to his men that they should be trusting him in life and to death.. is it really smart to say something like that if you want to be powerful and famous?..
actully there is more you`ll read yourself that would surprise you.. as it did to me I suppose.
.....
Why would Muhammed put some strange letters that has no meaning (till now).. why would he make that risk? why would he put some words like : Sad (the letter) in the beginning of the Surah 38. "Sad, -an arabic letter-).. or Surah 50. Kaf ( Kaf, -an arabic letter-).. and the other 3 or 4 letters in the beginning of many Surahs.. letters like Alf, Lam, Meem (3 arabic letters) or Haa, Meem (2 arabic letters).. untill this day we have no clue what those letter really mean or refer to!!.. BUT.. we have discovered something only few years ago...
In Surah 50. Kaf (Kaf is mentioned as a letter alone in the first verse alone in this Surah the same with the other letters been put alone in the beggining of many Surah.. however only Surah sad and kaf was called by those names of the letters been put in the beginning of the Surah, the beginning of Surah 50. Kaf.. is like this:
1. Qaf: By the Glorious Qur'an (Thou art Allah.s Messenger..
2. But they wonder that there has come to them a Warner from among themselves. So the Unbelievers say: "This is a wonderful thing!
3. "What! When we die and become dust, (shall we live again?) That is a (sort of) return far (from our understanding)."
4. We already know how much of them the earth takes away: With Us is a record guarding (the full account).
5. But they deny the Truth when it comes to them: so they are in a confused state..... ).
So in Surah Kaf (or Qaf) when they put the Quran in the PC programe which can count the letters and make such accountings.. they found out that there are 75 letter of Qaf in the Surah 50. Qaf, that`s normal.. but when they counted the letter Qaf in the next Surah in the Quran after Qaf they found also that it counts 75 of the letter Qaf in this Surah (Surah 51. The Winnowing Winds) !.. ok maybe it`s a coincedence right?.. ok.. but Im not finished yet.....
When the sceintists counted all the Qafs in the every Surah alone in the Quran they found out that the letter Qaf is the most counted in those 2 Surahs.. even more than mentioned in the biggest Surahs in the Quran..
Now to the letters which mentioned many times in the many Surah in the Quran.. which are A.L.M ( spells in arabic ALF. LAM. MEM which are 3 arabic letters).. first in Surah 2. The Cow.. when counted all the letters mentione din this Surah.. they found out that:
The letter A (ALF) was meniotnned 4592 times
The letter L (LAM) was mentionned 3204 times
The letter M (MEM) was mntionned 2195 times
and all the 3 letters in this order was mentionned the most and more than all the other arabic letters in this Surah!
when they trieds the same with all the Surahs that have the same case (that starts with 3 or 4 or even 1 letter in the first verse of it) they found out the same conclusion.. those letters that have been written alonein the beggining of the Surah were utterly mentionned more than the other letters.. :
In Surah.13 The Thunder.. the first verse is: A.L.M.R
A: 625 times
L:479 times
M: 260
R: 137
In Surah 3. the family of Imran.. the first verse is: A.L.M
A:2578
L:1885
M:1251
The same in Surah.29 The Spider.. that starts with A.L.M
A:784
L:554
M:344
The same in Surah 30. The Romans, the Byzantines.. that starts with the same verse that also contains the same 3 letters A.L.M
A:547
L:396
M:318
all the versus that starts with any letters.. the computer tells us that those verse are counted most (and in the same order) more than the other letters in the same Surah!..
There are Surahs that begins with the letters: HA. MEEM (H.M) when they are all counted togther.. all the letters in the all Surahs that starts with the same two letters.. the computer tells us that they are being counted the most numbered than the other letters in the Surahs, and the most comparing to thier numbers in the other Surahs in the Quran!
However.. in Surah 36. Ya-sin.. the letter YA and Siin (Y.S) were been counted as the less 2 letters counted in the Surah.. and less counted even than the all S AND Y mentionned in any other Surah!
A book has been released and printed in the U.S in English language called: Miracle of the Quran (Islamic Productions international In St. Louis Mo).. all in details about these mathematics discoveries.. all in the book.
But this is nothign comparing to those which other scientists have discovred also in the last couple of years (only recently!) in the term "mathematical miracles." There are many examples of this fascinating Qur'anic aspect. One example of this is the number of repetitions of certain words in the Qur'an. Some related words are surprisingly repeated the same number of times. Below is a list of such words and the number of repetitions in the Qur'an:
The statement of "seven heavens" is repeated seven times. "The creation of the heavens (khalq as-samawat)" is also repeated seven times.
"Day (yawm)" is repeated 365 times in singular form, while its plural and dual forms "days (ayyam and yawmayn)" together are repeated 30 times. The number of repetitions of the word "month" (shahar) is 12.
The number of repetitions of the words "plant" and "tree" is the same: 26
The word "payment or reward" is repeated 117 times, while the expression "forgiveness" (mughfirah), which is one of the basic morals of the Qur'an, is repeated exactly twice that amount, 234 times.
When we count the word "Say," we find it appears 332 times. We arrive at the same figure when we count the phrase "they said."
The number of times the words, "world" (dunya) and "hereafter" (akhira) are repeated is also the same: 115
The word "satan" (shaitan) is used in the Qur'an 88 times, as is the word "angels" (malaika).
The word faith (iman) (without genitive) is repeated 25 times throughout the Qur'an as is also the word infidelity (kufr).
The words "paradise" and "hell" are each repeated 77 times.
The word "zakah" is repeated in the Qur'an 32 times and the number of repetitions of the word "blessing" (barakah) is also 32.
The expression "the righteous" (al-abraar) is used 6 times but "the wicked" (al-fujjaar) is used half as much, i.e., 3 times.
The number of times the words "Summer-hot" and "winter-cold" are repeated is the same: 5.
The words "wine" (khamr) and "intoxication" (saqara) are repeated in the Qur'an the same number of times: 6
The number of appearances of the words "mind" and "light" is the same: 49.
The words "tongue" and "sermon" are both repeated 25 times.
The words "benefit" and "corrupt" both appear 50 times.
"Reward" (ajr) and "action" (fail) are both repeated 107 times.
"Love" (al-mahabbah) and "obedience" (al-ta'ah) also appear the same number of times: 83
The words "refuge" (maseer) and "for ever" (abadan) appear the same number of times in the Qur'an: 28.
The words "disaster" (al-musibah) and "thanks" (al-shukr) appear the same number of times in the Qur'an: 75.
"Sun" (shams) and "light" (nur) both appear 33 times in the Qur'an.
In counting the word "light" only the simple forms of the word were included.
The number of appearances of "right guidance" (al-huda) and "mercy" (al-rahma) is the same: 79
The words "trouble" and "peace" are both repeated 13 times in the Qur'an.
The words "man" and "woman" are also employed equally: 23 times.
Will they not ponder the Qur’an? If it had been from other than Allah, they would have found many inconsistencies in it.
(Qur’an, 4:82)
The number of times the words "man" and "woman" are repeated in the Qur'an, 23, is at the same time that of the chromosomes from the egg and sperm in the formation of the human embryo. The total number of human chromosomes is 46; 23 each from the mother and father.
"Treachery" (khiyanah) is repeated 16 times, while the number of repetitions of the word "foul" (khabith) is 16.
"Human being" is used 65 times: the sum of the number of references to the stages of man's creation is the same: i.e.
Human being 65
Soil (turab) 17
Drop of Sperm (nutfah) 12
Embryo ('alaq) 6
A half formed lump of flesh (mudghah) 3
Bone ('idham) 15
Flesh (lahm) 12
TOTAL 65
The word "salawat" appear five times in the Qur'an, and Allah has commanded man to perform the prayer (salat) five times a day.
The word "land" appears 13 times in the Qur'an and the word "sea" 32 times, giving a total of 45 references. If we divide that number by that of the number of references to the land we arrive at the figure 28.888888888889%. The number of total references to land and sea, 45, divided by the number of references to the sea in the Qur'an, 32, is 71.111111111111%. Extraordinarily, these figures represent the exact proportions of land and sea on the Earth today.238
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238. "Scientific Miracles," http://monak2.tripod.com/Peaceonline/id1.html.
What I am sure of is those codes were ment to be broken sometime i the future.. someday we will know the secret in which some codes and numbers of words like we have seen has been put that way.. just like the last amazing one.. all refers to one truth.. that God do exist and the Quran is his word.. now that would make sense.
There no way.. just no way that a human has made all this!! should I remind you when does this revealed? and how much time it took to be revealed (23 years).. how could this cave man make this calculations? and if he did (which is really really impossible!) why didnt he told humans that he did them.. he should be so proud you know! maybe they could have consider him as a God or something!!.. Im just making fun of whoever still might think it`s a work of human.. cause there are still surprises to come..
(Im gona post them in another posts alone cause it`s all way too much to read... )
Now for the sack of the words :"MAKE SENSE" now this would make sense
:
17. It is Allah Who has sent down the Book in Truth, and the Balance..(Surah 42. Councel)
Actully also there is one thing I want to point at.. the Quran has a special arabic toning that never been done before.. for the time it`s been revealed it was been put in a strange weired magician sound in a new kind of poem.. only a talanted gifted so experinced and so lucky (as Newten) POET would reach such perfection of puting a poem to create it.. that`s why it came clearly with a challanging verse in the Surah 10. Jonah:
"38. Or do they say, "He forged it"? say: "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"
The Quran was made by an uneducated man from the caves time? and he challengine the superb poets of its time?.. now what the words "make sense" would mean in the current situation?
as for the scientific aspect of the miracle of that Quran that can speak to any one in anywhere at any time.. the first question I asked to myself.. why would God do that.. I dont mean why creating us or any more further alike questions.. no, I mean why God give us this Quran put in this codes way that will be full with miracles about the universe that we will discover in this time and will in the same time discover that been point at in the Quran in an indirect way? and why it didnt came in the Quran with an equalation of Einstein`s or Newten`s?.. actully naturally we would relaize that if God gave the Quran in Equaltations of todays science to a cave man to be introduced to the cave arab men that time they`d surely call him crazy (although they have already called him crazy for just giving them the Quran that have been reveaed to him in it`s main simplcy.. so imagine if it has soemthing like Einstien`s equalation or that the earth is not flate or that the sun runs around the earth or any of those scientific arly discoveres.. I personally think it would have been a mistake.. could be done by a man but not by a God, for my simple defination for a God ofcourse. secondly.. If God released the future events and technologies in the Quran.. that would have been (as I mentioned) a waste of the all God`s plans! I mean what would we do with our brains then? it would have been useless.. and it alse would have been a waste of time to work or to think while you are so sure that there is God and the Qurn is his world and the evisdence are so clear and plain.. only then we would have been slaves like it or not.. we would have been humilated and suffered.. cause we would have been given such much of potentials and sensations and all been wasted and never been used.. we wouldnt use our brain in anything but to worship God tell we die.. all of the humans on earth.., it`s like the movie of lord of the rings.. you can see the beasts work in fear of the EYE that watchs them all the time. how could they disobey? and they know that they`re been watched all the time!... and this all leads to the natural consequncee of the evolution.. it`ll be backwarded.. as we wont use our brains or imagination and it would be useless.. so like Darwin said in his theory.. our brains will be unfunctioned and in time we will be brainless.. and we will have only huge muscles in body only to allow us to pray and whorship God better.. cause this will be the only work we would do..
So what would have been the point if the Quran will represent the ultimate truth with the most plain evidence of God existance.. and that the Quran is his word?
God`s existance is a truth.. but you need to have faith and to work out with your mind to realize and get the picture.. this is what God want.. otherwise he`d have planned to create you like a dog or elephant or anything else...
Although.. having this advanced organism as in your intellgent independnce brain has it`s own price.. you wont be treated as a weak helpless limited creature as animals or planets or whatsoever... there will be a responasbilty.. and I see that this is fair enough.. this is how we are all (creatures in this life) would be equaled in chances.
Darwin said:
"As many more individuals of each species are born than can possibly survive; and as, consequently, there is a frequently recurring struggle for existence, it follows that any being, if it vary however slightly in any manner profitable to itself, under the complex and sometimes varying conditions of life, will have a better chance of surviving, and thus be naturally selected. From the strong principle of inheritance, any selected variety will tend to propagate its new and modified form."
The Darwin`s Evolution only proves that God exsite.. Darwin has already answered the biggest question and he didnt even knew it!.. why would an intelligent creature evaluted in this world? what was the need to the life for an inteligent creature?????????????????.. what was the need?? is it a plan? and if it is planned.. it`s planned for what? dont you know yet?
Let`s see what else has Darwin said:
"Darwin coined the term natural selection to describe the process by which organisms with favorable variations survive and reproduce at a higher rate. An inherited variation that increases an organism's chance of survival in a particular environment is called an adaptation. Over many generations, an adaptation could spread throughout the entire species. In this way, according to Darwin, evolution by natural selection would occur.
As an example Darwin noted that the ptarmigan turns white in winter. This color change, he inferred, helped protect it from predators, which would have a hard time spotting the bird in snow. Ptarmigans that didn't change color in winter would be spotted easily and eaten. In this way, Darwin implied, ptarmigans that turned white in winter would be more likely to survive, reproduce, and pass this adaptation to future generations. "
If the evolution is true.. then God do exist.
The brainless creatures survive.. the most stupid ones survive.. what was the need for a smart intellignet one? and if we have evoluated from monkeys.. why monkeys still exist? and why do they have to evalute in the first place? what was the motivation?.. Im not an ignorant to put such questions away like the ignorant athiests and say it happened for a COINCEDENCE
.. It sure happened for a purpose.. for a good reason.. it`s to realize the truth about life.. and what`s more important than realizing the truth of life? If we thought about it in a plain materlaizm way.. we will find the same conclusion.. if like everything evoluted to survive.. and if we were sure about the evolution by natural selection.. then surely the intellgence that came to this life in the human form has been selected to survive in a unique way.. to realzie and seek the truth behind all this.
Now what God said about the evolution?..
Let`s see:
12. Man We did create from a genealogy (quintessence) of clay; (Surah 23. belivers)
I think that is enough said.. but I`d like to explain more.. what is above is a verse which tells us that the creation of human came on stages and steps.. but doesnt those stages would take several years to occure the operation?..
now see this:
1. Has there not been over Man a long period of Time, when he was nothing - (not even) mentioned? (Surah 76. Man)
This refers the point of zero which there was no human yet.. or what was before the shape of human take place..
14. "'Seeing that it is He that has created you in diverse stages? (Surah 71. Noah)
Is this needs explanation?
And now to the second important point.. the amount of time taken... we now know that it has been take place on stages.. but alittle of those stages has been said in the Quran..
"
7. He Who has made everything which He has created most good: He began the creation of man with (nothing more than) clay,
8. And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised"
9. But He fashioned him in due proportion... (Surah 32. The Prostration)
We now know that this was generally the begiining of the creation of the different species living on the earth.. maybe God here was speaking about the roots of the "tree of life" in which in time it diversed and took different shapes depending on the nature situation and circumstance.. this tree that has been evolved into many several branches.. many different branches that have been evolving into it`s different species from planets, animals, birds, fishes, insects and
finally humans which came from the same branche of which the monkeys came from.
In this God also refered:
50. He said: "Our Lord is He Who gave to each (created) thing its form and nature, and further, gave (it) guidance." (Surah 22. Taha)
Means gave the processe in which it formed the guidance, and after its been formed He gave it guidance in life.
Now speaking about time:
47....Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning. (Surah 22. The Pilgrimage)
Wow! now isnt this reminds you of something that Einstien said only few years ago in this century?
.. it`s a fact and God always wants us to understand more and to make our vision reach some limits that we didnt think about before.. so he has put us a principle which we could realize a fact of Time differences...
Makes me wonder.. how could an uneducated cave man who`s been raised in the desets of Saudi Arabia in the times of barbarity would possibly imagine such issue? and now it`s coincidetally been proved to be a true? hmm...
And so.. after searching in the Quran and reading between the lines... yet another facts the Quran was refering to in a code and puzzling way.. only to be discovered in the times which we will reach this time of knowledge.. but this have nothing to do with faith and believing.. and ppl who havnt had a clue of these refered issues and facts would be in the Quran actully believed in it without getting proves or whatsoever... maybe those what actully God wants.. those are the real belivers.
Back to the question of "why the Quran?, and why would God give it to us this way?"
In the time of Moses.. God gave him powers of doing superb magic.. because in the time of Moses the magic was the subject of this ear and whoever do magic could be considered as a God.. so God gave Moses the tool to convice the ppl of this time, this is how ppl used to think this time.. it`s like using the same language of those ppl to communicate and to make sense to them..
In the time Of Jesus only voilnce was the ruler in dealing between ppl.. when Jesus came with another defination in dealing and relation.. and it`s forgivness and goodness.. it was quite the right way to remind ppl of thier human side and this was the first steps of the end of voilence era..
Finally when the Human thinking evoluated and it reached the bigenning of the steps of the revolution.. God gave the Quran as the last message.. there will be no more need for magic or miracles to convince ppl of anything.. cause God knew that man will reach a high levels of knowledge and discoveries in the universe.. so he gave the Quran as a challenge for the time it`s been revealed.. a chalenge for the poets that have been looked at in this time as Gods.. as Poetry was the the subject of the moment in the time the Quran was revealed.. and untill this day no one and no poet in the great arabian nation has made or put or challenged one Surah as in the Quran.. isnt it strange? ... or maybe the Arab (even the ones that disbelived in the time the Quran been revelaed.. which there were giantic poets) are a part of this.. conspiracy??????... and now the Quran is provig that it`s still the message for both eras.. the era of the great potries and the Era of the revolution and the scientific discoveries.. which is our era..
About the stories.. that some of who read the Koran didnt like cause they found it inconvincing.. like the satan story with Adam and Eve.. I know that this is what you`d say as this is one of the first stories in the Quran.. so you`ll have the same comment (that I have had when I first time started to read the Book).. but the answer to your refers that it`s ridicules or doesnt make sense that how satan would enter the heaven without a permission or why would God care for this tree.. the answers to such questions is hard now.. for many reasons...
I`d tell you things that Ive discovered after reading the all Quran several times..
1- The apple tree isnt an apple tree.. God was refering to the apple tree as it is Sex relationship... what about that?
2- The scene that really happened wasnt actully in the heavens.. it ws right here on earth where God finished the formation of the first human being starting from nothing and through out time evoluting and forming tell the perfection of a human (the first of the human species and the end of all that have been evoluted from) what about this one?
3- Isnt the story tells you that God himself planned the all scenario? I mean isnt he the ruler.. he is God! so isnt it all tells you that he is really as he says in the all the Quran: (He does whatever He want).. Im sorry, I know that the huan nature is the egoism.. but sorry fales.. your ego in the first place like everyuthing esle is just anothe plan from God.. so you dont have something that is new or special or whatsoever you know.. some ppl or maybe most do not realize this fact.. or propably cant understand it.. cause they cant realiz what is God is in the first place.. so how can you realzize the basis and the reasons for his doings? right?
Read..
253. Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan. (Surah 2. The Cow)
38. There did Zakariya pray to his Lord, saying: "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!
39. While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him: "(Allah) doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a prophet,- of the (goodly) company of the righteous."
40. He said: "O my lord! How shall I have a son seeing I am very old and my wife is barren?" "Thus" was the answer "doth Allah accomplish whatt He willeth."
46. "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
30. Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not." (Surah 2. the Cow)
This one is so strange and kept me thinking for awhile.. how could the angles know that this new model (human) will make mischief in earth and shed blood? did they had an idea about the law of equale chances? they are been created with great powers for example.. but they have no power to dis obey God.. so they`d be equal to the human who has no such powers as they (and he`d wish to have any of angel`s powers) but instead he has the power to dis-obey God!) maybe...
the rest of the angels vs. First Man (Adam) scene: (form Surah 2. The Cow)
31. And He taught Adam the nature of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: "Tell me the nature of these if ye are right."
32. They said: "Glory to Thee, of knowledge We have none, save what Thou Hast taught us: In truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom."
33. He said: "O Adam! Tell them their natures." When he had told them, Allah said: "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?"
34. And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.
35. We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."
36. Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time."
37. Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
38. We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
39. "But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."
First in the 31 verse.. he gave Adam another advantage.. that he inspired him (nad still inspires) the nature of the things on earth (and not heaven) teaching him the lwas of the inviroment to keep searching for ways to live better on earth..
In the 32 verse.. it`s a confirmation that angels has not been created in a way to discover and know the nature of things.. which natrualy leads to invent to live better life and so on..
In the verse 33.. God was making a point for the angels.. as they dont have to question him by what he is doing.. they are being created to obey.. and so they`ll continu doing.. so dont you think that man is more lucky than angels or not?
In the 34 verse.. here God was introducing us to Mr Ibles (satan).. when God said that satan reject faith.. not meaning believing in God.. He ment obeying God without questionning like angels did.. but do you know why, what is the reason for satan`s rejection?..
.. in other versus in the Quran you`ll see what satan said in this scene when God brought the subject again.. you`d see from satan`s words that he has a human characteristic.. he is so arrogante.. and you`ll know that God made him like that by his will so the scene of the good and evil begins on earth..
In the other versus.. Adam`s new motaivations wanted to be tasted.. Adam realized that he has something that those giantic superb creatures havnt.. it`s the
(absolute freedom of choice in the limits of his power).. when satan inspired in his ears to disobey and to do what he desires (sex) there was 2 motivations.. the power of disobying God which is a motivation to test his special powers.. and the second on is to test this new feeling with his wife which was so amazing.. and you know....
Then when God (btw.. it`s all planned from God.. should I have to remind everytime?) said "We said: "Get ye down" he didnt mean get down as in place.. like getting down from second floor to the first one.. he ment getting down in degrees of God`s merci and giving....
Again... the all story with it`s details is really another test of believing..
There are many other things like that... the stroy is strange.. and it`s always a wondering question from the story character.. why would it be like that? why would you God do that? what is the wisdom behind that? why? why? why?.. a queastion that everyone of us asks to himself in his normal life.. and the answer is one.. God does whatever he wants.. maybe becasue the reason for doing this wont be realized by our poor brains? maybe because the resons by which this story goes which is being looked by us as ridicules or silly is not like it seems? or maybe it is silly to us.. but maybe too this is God challenging us by doing things that way?.. no wonder many athiests in the time of Muhammed and till now said about those stories and words that are madness (besides magic).. maybe God wanted us to just belive.. maybe he just want the ones that will blindly belive which is something so much challenging for the human sense with it`s common sense.. maybe this is how God keeps the balance by not forcing humans that whoever read the Quran to be forced to belive in him? by making the resons of all the stories looks like in a silly way in the eyes of whoever has no willing to belive so he`ll still not to belive?
See this story for example:
67. And remember Moses said to his people: "(Allah) commands that ye sacrifice a heifer." They said: "Makest thou a laughing-stock of us?" He said: "(Allah) save me from being an ignorant (fool)!"
68. They said: "Beseech on our behalf Thy Lord to make plain to us what (heifer) it is!" He said; "He says: The heifer should be neither too old nor too young, but of middling age. Now do what ye are commanded!"
69. They said: "Beseech on our behalf Thy Lord to make plain to us Her colour." He said: "He says: A fawn-coloured heifer, pure and rich in tone, the admiration of beholders!"
70. They said: "Beseech on our behalf Thy Lord to make plain to us what she is: To us are all heifers alike: We wish indeed for guidance, if Allah wills."
71. He said: "He says: A heifer not trained to till the soil or water the fields; sound and without blemish." They said: "Now hast thou brought the truth." Then they offered her in sacrifice, but not with good-will.
72. Remember ye slew a man and fell into a dispute among yourselves as to the crime: But Allah was to bring forth what ye did hide.
73. So We said: "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus Allah bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand. (from Surah 2. the cow)
Briefly.. this story about a man has been killed amoung the Jews of Moses.. and they dont know who did it... then they decide to return to Moses to ask him for a miracle or a sign to know who killed that man.. and this is how it goes.. God was revealing to Moses and he was just telling what is being told to him..
Why would God choose this way? see what they said in the beginning.. "are you laughing at us?" they said somethig like that.. but what do you think? is it really a ridicules story to you? for me it is not.. cause I knew and know that God do what he wants and no one questions him.. the story is a test for every human`s intellgence.. but the story itself isnt the test.. but the point of it is the test.. words you propably wouldnt understand.
There is another story that I really adore in the Quran.. there was a time when Moses got alittle arrogant and said while telling his ppl: (is there someone knows about God more than me?.) he said it in one of his speechs.. then God wanted to teach him a lesson.. Moses was just (like all messangers) a human after all.. so hre we goes:
65. So they found one of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own Presence.
66. Moses said to him: "May I follow thee, on the footing that thou teach me something of the (Higher) Truth which thou hast been taught?"
67. (The other) said: "Verily thou wilt not be able to have patience with me!"
68. "And how canst thou have patience about things about which thy understanding is not complete?"
69. Moses said: "Thou wilt find me, if Allah so will, (truly) patient: nor shall I disobey thee in aught."
70. The other said: "If then thou wouldst follow me, ask me no questions about anything until I myself speak to thee concerning it."
71. So they both proceeded: until, when they were in the boat, he scuttled it. Said Moses: "Hast thou scuttled it in order to drown those in it? Truly a strange thing hast thou done!"
72. He answered: "Did I not tell thee that thou canst have no patience with me?"
73. Moses said: "Rebuke me not for forgetting, nor grieve me by raising difficulties in my case."
74. Then they proceeded: until, when they met a young man, he slew him. Moses said: "Hast thou slain an innocent person who had slain none? Truly a foul (unheard of) thing hast thou done!"
75. He answered: "Did I not tell thee that thou canst have no patience with me?"
76. (Moses) said: "If ever I ask thee about anything after this, keep me not in thy company: then wouldst thou have received (full) excuse from my side."
77. Then they proceeded: until, when they came to the inhabitants of a town, they asked them for food, but they refused them hospitality. They found there a wall on the point of falling down, but he set it up straight. (Moses) said: "If thou hadst wished, surely thou couldst have exacted some recompense for it!"
78. He answered: "This is the parting between me and thee: now will I tell thee the interpretation of (those things) over which thou wast unable to hold patience.
79. "As for the boat, it belonged to certain men in dire want: they plied on the water: I but wished to render it unserviceable, for there was after them a certain king who seized on every boat by force.
80. "As for the youth, his parents were people of Faith, and we feared that he would grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude (to Allah and man).
81. "So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange (a son) better in purity (of conduct) and closer in affection.
82. "As for the wall, it belonged to two youths, orphans, in the Town; there was, beneath it, a buried treasure, to which they were entitled: their father had been a righteous man: So thy Lord desired that they should attain their age of full strength and get out their treasure - a mercy (and favour) from thy Lord. I did it not of my own accord. Such is the interpretation of (those things) over which thou wast unable to hold patience." (From Surah 18.The Cave)
What would you see in this stroy? the man that God gave much of his knowledge.. his name is Khedr... the story is so strange.. it contains unfortunate events made by Khedr inspired by God..
The story refers to this fact that God said in the Surah the cow:
216. Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
The stories has the same point.. it`s not how the story goes.. it`s has a farthur approach and a point to understand.. that again.. If you want to belive.. then you`ll just have to belive without questionning... cause believing means surrendering your ego, and putting your worst self distruct weapon down (the weapon that doesnt belong to you in the first place) your arrogance.. God wants no hypocrits.
There is a Surah in the Quran that I`d like you to read elcino..about the satan point you discussed:
19. Seest thou not that Allah created the heavens and the earth in Truth? If He so will, He can remove you and put (in your place) a new creation?
20. Nor is that for Allah any great matter.
21. They will all be marshalled before Allah together: then will the weak say to those who were arrogant, "For us, we but followed you; can ye then avail us to all against the wrath of Allah." They will reply, "If we had received the Guidance of Allah, we should have given it to you: to us it makes no difference (now) whether we rage, or bear (these torments) with patience: for ourselves there is no way of escape."
22. And Satan will say when the matter is decided: "It was Allah Who gave you a promise of Truth: I too promised, but I failed in my promise to you. I had no authority over you except to call you but ye listened to me: then reproach not me, but reproach your own souls. I cannot listen to your cries, nor can ye listen to mine. I reject your former act in associating me with Allah. For wrong-doers there must be a grievous penalty."
(Surah 14. Abraham)
OPS!
what a verse!! just what a verse!!! think about it..
Now before bring on the subject about heaven and hell.. and the subject about the Kabaa and alhaj.. here is the scene of the satan and the conversation with God:
33. (Iblis) said: "I am not one to prostrate myself to man, whom Thou didst create from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape."
34. ((Allah)) said: "Then get thee out from here; for thou art rejected, accursed.
35. "And the curse shall be on thee till the day of Judgment."
36. (Iblis) said: "O my Lord! give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised."
37. ((Allah)) said: "Respite is granted thee
38. "Till the Day of the Time appointed."
39. (Iblis) said: "O my Lord! because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong,-
40. "Except Thy servants among them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace)."
41. ((Allah)) said: "This (way of My sincere servants) is indeed a way that leads straight to Me.
42. "For over My servants no authority shalt thou have, except such as put themselves in the wrong and follow thee."
Im trying to talk about most of the points elcino talked about.. so I write to whatever I remember from what you said cause I spent like 2 hours reading your post.. I depend on my memory (which is so bad).. so I remember that you mentioned something about imagining God and that the religion(s) are ways to imagine and get to understand Him.. which is not in Quran and Islam.. and here we goes:
From Surah 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah:
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.
Isnt it like "dont ever think about what is God or "how" or "why" questions? it looks like it to me..
this one too.. from Surah 42. Councel, Consultation:
11. (He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).
About heaven and hell.. it`s a very long story.. so I`ll try to brief as much as I can and get straingt to the main point..
before talking about them... In Islam there is nothing garantee you to go to heaven, and no one or nothing can tell you who is going to hell.. and whoever said otherwise know nothing about the Quran.
My prove is already clear up there.. God do whatever he wants and no one decides what God will do or SHOULD do.. the laws of which humans will be judged is only known by God.. Our prophet Muhammed said in this matter: God once has put a mulsim religious woman in hell and a sinner in heaven.. when asked how and why?.. he said: about the believer religious woman.. she has put a cat in a locked room and never gave her food or drink till the cat died.. God has put her for such doing in hell (ignoring all the prayers and the other good things she might has done.. someone will ask..) this is how God have messurements for things not in our view.. maybe we would realize about this in the other side and other dimention.. but not in this life which everything is hard to realize.
and about the Sinner man.. he was walking down the desert after killing a man.. he was lost untill he found a deep well of water and he found a dog who is hardly trying to reach the water and he is dead thursty.. the man took off his shoe and fell it with water and gave it to the dog to drink then he started to drink after that.. when he died God sent him to heaven! (and ignoring what this man did of killing and other sins?.. a man would ask).. God knows what you dont know and he does whatever he wants.. rememer?
What God has said in the Quran about heaven and hell is nothing comparig to the reality of which heaven and hell is..
In life there is no absolute fair.. it`s naturaly that there is a second chapter to the story and we cant judge it from the first chapter..
I`ll put here some versus so we will try to get some conclusion from what have been said in the Quran:
24. And they say: "What is there but our life in this world? We shall die and we live, and nothing but time can destroy us." But of that they have no knowledge: they merely conjecture" (Surah 45. Crouching)
36. Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled, (without purpose)? (Surah 75. The Rising Of The Dead, Resurrection)
Then God explains that what we have decided by our free will (which is given in our power limits) we will take nothing from what we have owned in life.. no clothes no cars no money no nothing.. only our doings.. our good and bad ones.. all of them, every single thing.. whatever you were will be along..
124. "But whosoever turns away from My Message, verily for him is a life narrowed down, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Judgment."
125. He will say: "O my Lord! why hast Thou raised me up blind, while I had sight (before)?"
126. ((Allah)) will say: "Thus didst Thou, when Our Signs came unto thee, disregard them: so wilt thou, this day, be disregarded." (Ta-Ha 20. Bee)
So everything will be raised in the shape he deseves according to what he did in life and what he was.. isnt it scary? yes.. but is it unfair?.. no:
118. .. We did them no wrong, but they were used to doing wrong to themselves
It`s all your responsabiltiy.. and no one to blam for anything he forced to be, like whoever his freedom has been stolen from him.. we all will be judged for our intentions and desires.. only.
whoever lived like an animal thinks about sex, eat and drink, sleep and careless for ppl and treat others with ignoance or arrogance.. then he will have the lowest level comparing to whomever has spent thier life in thinking and doing rightous and to give ppl benefits and help them.. or whoever try to use his powers in the good.. we all know about that ofcourse.. isnt it something natural?.. anyway..
now comes to the discribtion of the hell.. there are things that many do not reallize when God is speaking about punishment in hell.. for example look at this:
38. He will say: "Enter ye in the company of the peoples who passed away before you - men and jinns, - into the Fire." Every time a new people enters, it curses its sister-people (that went before), until they follow each other, all into the Fire. Saith the last about the first: "Our Lord! it is these that misled us: so give them a double penalty in the Fire." He will say: "Doubled for all" : but this ye do not understand.
39. Then the first will say to the last: "See then! No advantage have ye over us; so taste ye of the penalty for all that ye did !"
(Surah 7. The Heights)
Now open your mind...we will realize 2 things:
1- a conversation in fire????????
.. how could we imagine that there will be a conversation between ppl who is entering hell to be tortured? how could Muhammed (as you claim to be the one to write the Quran?) to imagine such thing? Im sure there was no cartoons back then so he`d get such idea.. nor any sain man would believe such words inhis times.. so why would he make such risk telling ppl that ppl will go to hell will speak to each other and make conversation or generally there will be other things going in thier minds besides the pain they`ll get?? .. and that`s lead us to the #2
2- That the fact is this Fire that God is talking about in the judgment day is not by a chance like our universe fire.. we would be ridicules and silly if we imagined that this fire of hell would be like the fire of matches or even the fire of the sun!.. so this leads us to 2 conclusions:
a) The nature of the end of day`s punishment fire in hell is unknown and cant be realized in our minds
b) That the nature of our bodies (essence) on that day will not like the nature of our bodies right now.
The punishment wont be physical (only, maybe) but much more of mentally and phsycologcally.. this could explain the degrees of punishment inside the same place and time. (that if we assume that place and time will still be there on this other dimention.. nothing is so sure).
You`d see all over the Quran God speaking of heaven and hell.. but I bet you will never think about the truth about heaven and hell.. you possibly cant imagine what they really look like.. (which was one of the reason of me laughing at this subject sometime before)..
But I have discovered the following in the Quran:
when God refers in the Quran to the heaven for example he usually use the word "parable".. like this verse:
15. (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord (Surah 47. Muhammed)
So this means that all of this mentionned is not really the heaven.. but it`s something like of what you know and would understand in your world.
Cause God also said:
17.No person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden (in reserve) for them (Surah 32. The Prostration)
This all means ..for example.. if a child asked you once.. tell me how the sex pleasure feels like?.. I think it`s impossible to explain to a child that never experianced sex of how it feels!! but you`d use some words and you`ll say something like this: as a parable of sex feeling.. it really feels like the taste of chocolate cake with ice cream and apple pie!..
the same speaking about the horrible hell.. God says:
16. They shall have Layers of Fire above them, and Layers (of Fire) below them: with this doth Allah scare (warn off) his servants: "O My Servants! then fear ye Me!" (Surah 14. Abraham)
So the examples God says about hell (just the way with heaven) is to scare them.. telling them something to imagine how much fear and horror it is in hell.. put it has nothing to do with the truth and the reality about the essence of hell at all nor Heaven.
For the matter of God giving us examples.. and some would say it`s ridicules and why would God give us examples and similitudes in this "silly" way?.. God respondes to them:
26. Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: "What means Allah by this similitude?" By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path),- (Surah 2. The Cow)
This verse really explains many points Ive discussed over there.. and enough said.
(God really loves the intellegent ones of Man.. many many verseus which he gave similitudes or signs or stronge words of facts or miracles.. He sometimes mention the intellegent Man in the end of the verse.. it`s like he`s telling those specific words in a way which only Man who is using thier brains and intellegnce would really discover and know what`s behind it and the secret of it.)
Before coming to this life.. we had a life before.. many verses in the Quran refers to this fact:
9. ...Say: "Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endued with understanding that receive admonition. (Surah 39. the Troops)
Here giving the adjective of "reminder" to the "Quran":
9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Reminder (Message, the Quran); and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption, distortion). (Surah 15. Al-hijr, Stoneland, Rock City)
17. And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand: then is there any that will receive admonition?Surah 54. The Moon)
21. Therefore do thou (Muhammed) give admonition, for thou art one to admonish.
22. Thou art not one to manage (men's) affairs. (Surah 88. The Overwhelming)
29. ...and that men of understanding may receive admonition. (Surah 38. Sad, (the Letter)
54. Nay, this surely is an admonition:
55. Let any who will, keep it in remembrance!
56. But none will keep it in remembrance except as Allah wills: He is the Lord of Righteousness, and the Lord of Forgiveness.
what`s the big deal with the admontion or remembering? remembering what?
Do God means remembering something about the truth of life.. the answer of what this life for?.. no one ofcourse would say that anyone have remembered what happened before he came to birth!.. but the words in Arabic still so obvious that God refers to something exactly like this... maybe a verse like this would help:
172. When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful":
173. Or lest ye should say: "Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them: wilt Thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?"
174. Thus do We explain the signs in detail; and perchance they may turn (unto Us).
This is the scene described above: all the humans were gathered before coming to life.. all souls of us and our fathers, grandfathers, children and granchildren.... and this testify has took place..
Maybe the remembeance wasnt refered to remember what was before this life of which this scene take place.. maybe it just refered to understand that the truth of Life that we are not here to play.. and that there is a mission for us.. and everything else is false to distructe.. and that we will die to return to Him again.
Now there are only 2 subjects left that I`ll comment on.. the first is about women in Islam.. are they happy?.. first you were spaking about the definiation about happiness and what makes ppl really happy and satisfied then you mentionned a quesiton that if the woman in the Islam is happy or not..
Things that you in the west dont know is.. women in the east having some goals in life.. many of them wants to get married and have babies and to be a succeful wife and mother.. while others wants to be a succeful business women.. and the goals are so many specially in these times.. but one of the goals that is so common between women (and I know that from the girls I knew and from my sister and her friends) is to start wearing the hijab (the scarf to cover the hair) and to wear full descent clothes.. the reason for that (In my islamic socienty in Egypt) that even in religious families.. there is no force to wear the islamic clothes and hijab.. the girl is fully free to decide if she wants to wear it or not..
So .. we know that ppl always do things that makes them satisfied and HAPPY.. so why 90% of those women wear the hijab at some stage in thier lives does this make them happy?
My sister is an independce girl... she spent here first 18 years without any descent clothes or hijab or whatsoever.. only 9 months ago I found her trying the hijab in her room.. the first thing I told her.. what are you doing? what happened? .. she told me it`s time to return to God.. I think I understand now why we should wear the hijab.!
in the west it`s ok that women walk down streets naked with hot clothes.. but is this really makes them happy? see what are the common consequances for doing that.. you`d find yourself if you google the highest rates of raping in the world.. the highest rates of suicide between the women in the world, the highest rates between the illegitimate bregnancy in the world.. and see what this cases of curroption in society in general.
I see that elcino has read about the woman`s life before the Islam.. which was a complete hell and suffering.. pll back then used to hate to have baby girls and they used to bary them alive!... in those days too women most of them used to be naked and undescent.. maybe that`s why men were afraid to raise up women that will make his reputation in the dust when she grows up and become like the other women.. another undescent one.. so did you know the reason now?
When the Islam came to this time with this new priniples which was so challenging for women to tain the failthy desires and to discover that they are not to live like animals.. now that was the reason why God wanted those women to cover most of there body... just to always forget this meaning that they have reached in this specific time.. that they are not like animals and shouldnt be treated or feel like they are scum.. they are the main strengh of the nation and they are the ones to bring men to the society.
You are looking to the covering the hair and wearing descent thing from the outside.. and I cant make you understand the real reason of it.. it`s just doesnt look like it seems.. it`s much deeper than that.
About the many wives.... God mentionned soemthing in the Quran about it.. in which many muslim men didnt understand which they did a big mistake taking many wives.. and not the Islam or the Quran to blam for it.. here it is:
3. If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. (Surah 4. Women)
In the old times thre were orphans and slavment.. God wanted man first to take care of the orphants, second to free the slaves.. but If God has put in the Quran plain orders for ppl in the time the Quran revealed to do both this would have been a mistake.. that would only be dont be a man and not a God.. the first aspect of the mistake is that many wouldnt enter the Islam for that reason.. cause back then some families had hunderds but thausands of slaves.. the second aspect is if those families that converted to Islam has set free the slaves there would have been an economic problem.. so how could those thausands of slaves get a work from to get money to eat? this also means increasing of much of robbery and thiefts... so the Quran was revealed on stages and on a different times.. (though out 23 years)...
So here in this verse of the women.. God set the messurment of making justice between the different women in the house as the main subject.
So any man who isnt able to make justice between his women shouldnt get marry to many... the first thing that gibe a sign of injustice isa to marry another woman with the permission or the satisfaction of your first woman..
This give us the conclusion of which many men in the arabian societies dont really understand the Quran.. however.. the marrying much wives thing has become less than before.. it`s so rare that you listen about a man who is married to 2 wives or more.. in my country it`s becoming somthing hilarious and funny and to laugh at.. so anyway it`s becoming in history.. cause it`s impossible to make justice between 2 indepnece women of this time plus men are being so romantic in the last hundered years inthe mideast.. so they would prefer to love one woman and to marry here.. this is a truth.
In Surah 4. Women... there is verse that many would misundrstand.. ofcourse.. here it is:
34. ...As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty (insubordiante) and ill-conduct (recalcitrant) , admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last if not to obey) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)
there 2 kind of women that have phsycological illness..
1- the masochism.. in which the wman gets satisfaction from being treated as slave and beaten.. the only right way to deal with this condition is to beat her (lightly) as God said.
2- the sadism.. in which woman get much of satisfaction from being incontrol, prevail over and govern (the recalcitrant one the verse was talking about). this one (scientifcally) has only one way to deal with.. is to break her power source.. and it`s by leaving her in bed (her only power is her feminini)..
Im just wondering.. did Muhammed had a psychiatry friend too that told him about this scientific proved fact?..come on! they didnt even know about it back then!
Now the at last but not least... getting straingt to the point.. is pilgrimage (alhaj) a pagen rite? what is a seven rounds walking arounf the kaaba means? and why seven? why not eight or nine? this is ridicules right? and what about that rock? why ppl struggle to get to it just to kiss it? what is this nonsense? right? and this run that you make in haj between the safa mountain and the marwa mountain.. not a civilized educated man would accept such nonsense... right?
I really have no clue this time about the alhaj.. and why exactly we should do this and that there.. I have no reason for it.. and I`m no sure why seven rounds, and I have no clue about it... but maybe as I discussed over there they are just another step of the test God puts.. that when he tells you to do something.. you do without asking why.. cause as I know.. God only wants belivers.. and not arrogant ignorant.. just maybe.. everything is possible..
But let us think about the alHaj or the islamic pilgrimage for awhile.. first this thing about going around the keba... around and around...
Do you know that according to our system and law.. in the common matter laws.. in general that the smallest goes around the biggest.. the electrons runs around the nucleus in the atom.. the moon runs in circles around the earth.. the earth around the sun, the sun around the galaxy.. and the galaxy around a bigger galaxy (super galaxy).. and if we kept going according to this we will reach a conclusion.. that all goes around the biggest and the greatest of all.. the absolute.. dont we muslims say ALLAH AKBAR (Allah is the greatest.. or the biggest) this means that you and me right now are going around him whether we like it or not... In alhaj we choosed with our will to go around the kabaa.. we take the first place to be built on earth to whorship God, and and God.. God is the absolute and the eternal:
(Surah 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah)
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal (the only everlasting), Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.
Dont you ppl in the west go to visit a dead embalmed man in the kremlin and you say that he made lots of things for humanity? wont you run to visit a tomb of shakespeare or Alexandre the great if you found his tomb? so why blaming us for visiting this beloved place to ours? dont you put flowers on the graves of these you visit? so why blaming us for throwing stones on a symbol grave that we call the satan that he is in it? and about the running from the safa to al marwa and back to the safa mountains.. isnt it juts reminds you of the pendular movment of life? from the non exisctance to the existance then to the unexistance again? the same thing that happens to all things that lives on the planet! dont you see that the ALHAJ is like a brief symbolic for the life?
And why seven rounds around the kaaba?.. I dont know... let me tell you a coincednce about the number seven.. I wont tell you about the seven layers or seven heavens... what about the seven holograms colors of light? why seven? and what about the seven scales of music only seven C-D-E-F-G-A-B and no others.. ok.. then what about this one.. the maximum number of orbits around the nucleus is seven.. the days of the week are seven.. cant be eigth ot six.. why? the fetus gets fully gorwth in the 7th month.. !? a coincednece it is? just like everything else?.. Im sure that you are not an atheist elcino, so Im sure it wont be a coincedence for you.
As for the kissing of the black rock.. this rock of which Muhamed carried and put in it`s place alone byhimself.. so tell me.. wont you read a letter from your lover with passion.. and ever day you`d read again and kiss it and even sleep beside it on the sofa? is this means that you are pagen? why to blam us to kiss this rock?? what is the problem with that really?.. no one said tht if you didnt kiss it you will go to hell or any of that.. actully millions arnt been able to kiss it in the LAHAJ.. so it`s not a must.. it`s optional.. so what`s the problem now? we really dont give a damn about a piece of rock.. but the memories and the symbol and meanings this rock is representing is what we care.. just like the letter from your lover.. what a piece of paper means to you? nothing.. it`s what`s inside this piece of paper.. it`s the idea of that your lover has touched this paper and put his pen to write to you.. this is what you concern.. and not the stupid piece of paper.
Alhaj for me is something to inspire and to think.. we go to elhaj with a piece of cloth on our body without any jewlwery or colors on it.. all white.. clothes.. all one!.. all black and white, poor and rich.. all one wearing the same and doing the same and saying the same in passion .. millions and millions.. this peice of clth that we wear is like a representaion of the piece of clth that we first have on when we cam to life as little kids, and then when we die we get to undergound with a piece of clth that looks like it..
Dont you go to an important meeting to visit a VIP wearing your best clothes? we dont have something that we could put on us to be messure the greatness of this meeting.. then we take off all of our colors and different fake faces and clothes.. and we prescind from this lie of pretentous with respect to the God who knows all about us.
..........
I know that it`s not easy to be convinced with something like that... but if really God exist.. so ther is no way that the Quran is a word of Muhammed.. and God do really exist, cause there is no way that a man in this time would know or predict or even have all this luck to say all of those things that are proved to be facts.. an ther eis no one thing that he has said that is wrong... where is the coincednce here?
Im not done with my questions and researches.. Im not to stop thinking about God... Im not like the ppl who think that they are smart and educated for not believig in God becuase of what they have been told and heared without even making researchs and a fair look at the both sides of the subject.. Im gona continue searching untill the day I die.
And I hope God would get me closer to him everytime.. he has always said in the Quran that he loves and prefers the ppl with a sense and endued with understanding.. the clever and hard working intellegent ones, the ppl of science and knowledge... I hope I`ll become one of them... :
7. He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. (Surah 3. The family of Imran)
18. There is no god but He: That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise. (Surah 3. The family of Imran)
190. Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding,-
191. Those Men who praises Allah while standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought):..."(Surah 3. The family of Imran)
(He always prefers the men seeking knowledge than even the religious belivers!.. he puts there refering in the Quran besides his name and the angels at many versus in the Quran.)
and not to become on of who.. :
87. ...Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay! (Surah 2. The Cow)
52. Forsooth, each one of them wants to be given scrolls (of revelation) spread out!
(Surah 74. The Cloaked One)
I know that a very big part of some ppl are reading this.. do not love the truth.. it cant be the truth that there is a God and that the Quran and Islam is the easiest and shortest way to this truth.. it`s just cant be.. it should be soemthing else.. like I should be that we were monkies and evolved to humans.. and we have no creator no ruler.. and we are free to do whatsoever.. this is better.. way much better.. why should we complicated things? right?
Do you think that it was easy for me to accept the truth and to face it?.. do you think that Ive been raised in a religious family that have been fedding my head with brain wash things about islam? if you think that Im like the others then you are so wrong.. cause not many thta were lucky as I am.. Ive been free to decide what to do and in what to believe.. that`s the basis and the foundation of what Ive been raised.. despite the freedom to do whatsoever.. I found myself returning to the truth all by myself.. the Islam and the Quran.. cause Ive studied about science and studied about this book.. and Im not to be scared of someone who`ll punish me nor been threatened by my father or mother to pray and to be religious.. I was much lucky...
Im sorry.. but Ive studied many other possibilites to be called the truth.. and I havnt been convenced with any.. but this one.. so far.. and everyday I discover something new that only supports it... just so weired.
So sorry if you cant accept the truth.. maybe in chapter 2 in life you`d know about it.. we all gona know anyway.. that`s what we all agree with.
...hmph.
(btw.. for reading about the different miracles aspect found in the Quran..:
http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/...838#post817838
If you dont want to so forget it.. they are way too much reading anyway..
)
D.
The Divine Homo Sapiens
...Science has been developed in it's magnificent splendour just recently.Just a century ago people were ridiculing Jules Verne for his visions about the man walking on the moon and his Internal combastion engines???you can just imagine what level of sophistication we could've had if there wasnt for the Catholic church,who with all it's power obstructed the rational thoughts and tryed to chain them.Because they knew what God wants and because they wanted to save everyone...
but as Church say(because of the holes in their system and belief)God Works in Mysterious ways.What's misterious in Auschwitz???
Slovenia,Greece,Bulgaria,Romania and Poland are 1000 times more advanced than Turkey,aspecially Romania,im sorry but Turkey needs reforms and yeah Beckham is on Pepsi because he's a better player than Zidane,who is not that handsome and doesnt look like a woman,he doesnt polish his nails and that's why there was everyone on Pepsi From those artsy fartsy Britney to Jenfier,but Zidane isnt for that,because his parents cant wote in France and by the way we love our Muslim Brothers."
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