FIFA punishments for the incidents in Istambul

[Ronni]

Now we finally know how turks and swiss will be punished for the incidents in their WC-Qualifying play-off match in Istambul last November.
Personally, I agree perfectly with their decisions - and actually this is basically what I had predicted and hoped. No WC-ban to Turkey, but many official matches behind closed doors, and personal punishments to proved involved players, including the exclusion of the swiss Huggel from the next WC and a long ban for the turkish assistent coach.

What do you think about their decisions?
The official text (from FIFA's site) follows.



Zurich, 7 February 2006 - The FIFA Disciplinary Committee met at FIFA headquarters in Zurich on Monday, 6 February and Tuesday, 7 February 2006 to discuss the incidents that occurred in connection with the 2006 FIFA World Cup™ preliminary competition match between Turkey and Switzerland in Istanbul on 16 November 2005.
Under the chairmanship of deputy chairman Salman Bin Ebrahim Al Khalifa (Bahrain), the committee, sitting as the body of first instance, passed the following decisions:

In the main proceedings against the Turkish Football Federation:

- the Turkish Football Federation is ordered to play its next six official home matches behind closed doors in a neutral venue in another country affiliated to UEFA with a minimum distance of 500km to the Turkish border. The Turkish Football Federation is ordered to pay all organisational costs with regard to these six matches.
- a fine in the amount of CHF 200,000 (+ procedural costs of CHF 20,000).

In the individual proceedings against:

a) Alpay Ozalan (Turkey, player)
- a suspension of six official matches of his representative team. This suspension is carried over to the representative team's next official matches.
- a fine of CHF 15,000 (+ procedural costs of CHF 1,000)

b) Emre Belozoglu (Turkey, player)
- a suspension of six official matches of his representative team. This suspension is carried over to the representative team's next official matches.
- a fine of CHF 15,000 (+ procedural costs of CHF 1,000)

c) Serkan Balci (Turkey, player)
- a suspension of two official matches of his representative team. This suspension is carried over to the representative team's next official matches.
- a fine of CHF 5,000 (+ procedural costs of CHF 500)

d) Mehmet Ozdilek (Turkey, assistant coach)
- a ban from taking part in any football-related activity (administrative, sports or any other activity), within associations, confederations or FIFA for 12 months as from notification of this decision.
- a fine of CHF 15,000 (+ procedural costs of CHF 1,000)

e) Benjamin Huggel (Switzerland, player)
- a suspension of six official matches of his representative team. This suspension is carried over to the representative team's next official matches.
- a fine of CHF 15,000 (+ procedural costs of CHF 500)

f) Stephan Meyer (Switzerland, physiotherapist)
- a suspension of two official matches of his representative team. This suspension is carried over to the representative team's next official matches.
- a fine of CHF 6,500 (+ procedural costs of CHF 500)

The decisions will now be sent to the relevant parties and will be followed up with a detailed, reasoned explanation within the next thirty days.

With the exception of the decisions against Serkan Balci and Stephan Meyer, all other first-instance decisions passed by the FIFA Disciplinary Committee may be taken to the FIFA Appeal Committee before the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne may be called upon to act as the body of final instance in accordance with the FIFA Statutes.

[BRISTOLUK]

I feel sorry for Huggel. I have always been sympathetic to people reacting to provocation. We all know the atmosphere surrounding the game and the intensity of the moment when the players had to run for their safety. It's not as if his reaction required thought, having to run some distance to exact revenge. There was absolutely nothing premeditated about it, it was a reflex in a split second of the mayhem prevalent at the time.

Unless there was something else we didn't see, or he has a record of indiscipline, I think missing the WC is out of proportion to his part in the incident.

[plato-ny]

FIFA wanted to ban Turkey completely from Euro 2008 and WC 2010. But, they gave them a "lighter" sentence.

This has happened with Turkey before and it has to stop.

Exhibit A: Turkey vs. England tunnel brawl October 30, 2003.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...nd/3228375.stm

Video footage of brawl with England:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/39...ootball_vi.ram

Result: FIFA fines Turkey.

Exhibit B: Latvia vs. Turkey NEW tunnel brawl November 17, 2003.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/SPORT/fo...7/euro.latvia/

Result: Three weeks after England brawl. FIFA lets them slide as the opposing team wasn't involved.

"A 200,000 franc fine -- that's laughable! Six match bans for Turkey -- that's mild!" said the Zurich-based daily, Blick, after hearing Turkey's punishment.

Turkey will decide on the 16th to play in either Germany, Georgia or Bulgaria for their home games. Germany has a large Turkish population but playing there could cause their fans to start trouble.

They could be better off playing in either Georgia or Bulgaria. IMO.

[Toke-E-Yo]

I dont get wat the Turkish FA are so upset abiut, especially when FIFA were considering to not let them play in the 2010 WC~!

[Ronni]

Originally Posted by BRISTOLUK

I feel sorry for Huggel. I have always been sympathetic to people reacting to provocation. We all know the atmosphere surrounding the game and the intensity of the moment when the players had to run for their safety. It's not as if his reaction required thought, having to run some distance to exact revenge. There was absolutely nothing premeditated about it, it was a reflex in a split second of the mayhem prevalent at the time.

Unless there was something else we didn't see, or he has a record of indiscipline, I think missing the WC is out of proportion to his part in the incident.

if we were talking about a 16 year old boy I would agree, but Huggel is almost 30, and moreover I'm sure that people in the swiss federation are professional enough to prepare these guys to the provocations they already knew they would suffer. Also because in the swiss team there are so many young players, I imagine at least their experienced coach must have talked about that many times, stressing what would surely happen. And being one of the most experienced players, used to be in the pressure of the media, and knowing previously which atmosphere he would face, I think that a reaction like we saw is unacceptable.

Despite of the fact that I consider that he was "prepared", I wouldn't like to see someone in the WC who I had saw on tv kicking deliberately another person just some months before. What kind of example would it be for young players (or football fans)?

[BRISTOLUK]

Originally Posted by Ronni

if we were talking about a 16 year old boy I would agree, but Huggel is almost 30, and moreover I'm sure that people in the swiss federation are professional enough to prepare these guys to the provocations they already knew they would suffer. ......... And being one of the most experienced players, used to be in the pressure of the media, and knowing previously which atmosphere he would face, I think that a reaction like we saw is unacceptable.

A fair point to make, but sometimes no matter how much you prepare, it may not be enough. I'm sure we have all reacted at some time in a way that would normally be out of character or understandable given the circumstances. Mitigation determines the consequences.
I also think that, with due respect to them, the Swiss football team has never experienced such pressures as on that occasion.
Some players practise dark arts in matches to provoke the opponent. In Turkey, it sometimes appears they have more than most. David Beckham has many advisors and would have received similar advice about not responding to provocation such as being spat upon. If anybody is used to pressure from the media and public hostility it is he. Yet he still reacted to it when England played Turkey.

Originally Posted by Ronni

Despite of the fact that I consider that he was "prepared", I wouldn't like to see someone in the WC who I had saw on tv kicking deliberately another person just some months before. What kind of example would it be for young players (or football fans)?

Not a very good one, perhaps. But there's also a lesson that people are human and a bad reaction doesn't make you a bad person. A possible lesson in forgiving would be shown too.

No doubt we shall also see players in the tournament itself, kicking others, feigning injury, cheating etc. (Turkey themselves, fell victim to such an act last WC.)
As usual, the guilty players will remain on the pitch and in the tournamemt. And don't you just know they will be scoring decisive goals, winning medals and becoming heroes.
That lesson - that cheating can bring success - that is something FIFA could do something about.

[Ronni]

Originally Posted by BRISTOLUK

A fair point to make, but sometimes no matter how much you prepare, it may not be enough. I'm sure we have all reacted at some time in a way that would normally be out of character or understandable given the circumstances. Mitigation determines the consequences.

that's right. So we have to be punished accordingly for that.
This guy wasn't banned for life. He got 6 matches. This is not much more than what a player gets when he reacts a foul with an immediate elbow strike (which is much more a "brutal reflex" than what we saw from him on tv). We shouldn't see his punishment as "being excluded of the World Cup", but just "getting 6 matches out". It happened that the next matches are in a World Cup (and in the case of Switzerland, also the Euro). Sorry for him.

Originally Posted by BRISTOLUK

I also think that, with due respect to them, the Swiss football team has never experienced such pressures as on that occasion.

I agree. But they have to be treated in the same way as other ones.
A swiss player shouldn't get a favor just because he's not used to the same pressure as someone else just because nobody in the world cared much about the swiss team or Switzerland (until last November ...)
Anyway they are representing their country. If they don't act in a professional way, unfortunately it's ok if they're treated under the same standards as for the teams that do.

Originally Posted by BRISTOLUK

Some players practise dark arts in matches to provoke the opponent. In Turkey, it sometimes appears they have more than most. David Beckham has many advisors and would have received similar advice about not responding to provocation such as being spat upon. If anybody is used to pressure from the media and public hostility it is he. Yet he still reacted to it when England played Turkey.

There's a price for being a public person. Of course you can act as a "human being". It's ok if you are punished accordingly.

Originally Posted by BRISTOLUK

Not a very good one, perhaps. But there's also a lesson that people are human and a bad reaction doesn't make you a bad person. A possible lesson in forgiving would be shown too.

it would be a good lesson. But a lesson is good only if it's interpreted this way. And I imagine in this case it wouldn't. It would just open a precedent case for other people feeling in the right of doing the same.

Originally Posted by BRISTOLUK

No doubt we shall also see players in the tournament itself, kicking others, feigning injury, cheating etc. (Turkey themselves, fell victim to such an act last WC.)
As usual, the guilty players will remain on the pitch and in the tournamemt. And don't you just know they will be scoring decisive goals, winning medals and becoming heroes.
That lesson - that cheating can bring success - that is something FIFA could do something about.

I agree 100%. I find that this kind of cheating is even worse and less sportive than reacting to a provocation. Unfortunately it's difficult for the referee to decide himself after 10 seconds if what he saw in less than one second was cheating or not. What I can't accept is that FIFA insists on giving decision power to a single referee and what he writes on his stupid report, although in important matches we have plenty of technology for analysing any wrong breath of a player. And they just "simulate" being up to date excluding a posteriori every now and then someone spitting caught by tv images.
As long as they don't change their stubborn mind on this, it will be difficult to ensure that everyone plays fair.

[BRISTOLUK]

Originally Posted by Ronni

This guy wasn't banned for life. He got 6 matches. This is not much more than what a player gets when he reacts a foul with an immediate elbow strike (which is much more a "brutal reflex" than what we saw from him on tv).

I think context and provocation should come into every situation and each case should be looked at individually. I'm sure you do too.
The 'elbow' in response to a foul is sometimes nothing more than an attempt at shrugging off the true villain of the piece and, thankfully, sometimes it is seen that way. But sometimes it is violent and should be punished accordingly.
I don't consider swinging a leg at someone, while you are actually running past the target yourself and unlikely to connect with any sort of impact, to be a particularly violent act, particularly in that situation with everything that had happened before. As you say, the suspension is not much more than the player reacting with an elbow. But why should it be more at all when it's not as violent as an elbow?

Originally Posted by Ronni

A swiss player shouldn't get a favor just because he's not used to the same pressure as someone else just because nobody in the world cared much about the swiss team or Switzerland (until last November ...)
Anyway they are representing their country. If they don't act in a professional way, unfortunately it's ok if they're treated under the same standards as for the teams that do.

That wasn't really my point. You said they would have been prepared for the provocation. What I really meant was that with their limited experience of volatile situations, any advice/preparation was likely to be less adequate than it would be for other teams. So they have been less well prepared to deal with it. I think it fair to allow for that.

You're a tough man, Ronni. I hope for a more sympathetic judge if I ever go off the rails