Are We Witnessing The Rise Of The Fourth Reich?

[anders]

Without a doubt, comparisons to Hitler have been overdone. It seems that when a writer disagrees with the policies of a sitting president, be he Republican or Democrat, there exists a ubiquitous temptation to compare him with the ignoble German leader. Some will no doubt charge this author with having succumbed to this temptation. Perhaps I have.

However, as a student of both the Bible and history, I believe we in America are living in times that are eerily reminiscent of the days leading up to the rise of the Third Reich. If after reviewing this thesis, the reader wants to dismiss its conclusions as insipid and irrelevant, he or she is certainly free to do so.

On the other hand, it would do the reader good to heed the words of George Santayana who said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." If America is truly flirting with any semblance of the fallacious and fallen Reich (which I believe it is), it is incumbent upon each and every true American (especially Christians) to renounce, reject, and repudiate such flirtations as early and as vociferously as possible!

There are many facets and aspects of the Third Reich which could and should be analyzed. For the purpose of this column, however, I want to focus on the attitude and actions of the ministers and churches of Germany at the time of Hitler's rise.

My focus upon the German church is predicated upon the fact that as a Christian pastor (I have been the pastor of an Independent Baptist Church for more than 30 years), it is my studied opinion that any western nation will rise or fall according to the attitudes and actions of its Christian leaders and churches. Scripture says, "Judgment must begin at the house of God." Therefore, while any nation might survive corrupt politicians, greedy merchants, and sinful citizens, it cannot survive cowardly, compromising churches! As the churches go, so goes the country!

In the case of Nazi Germany, it was the German churches first and foremost that failed their country. It was the churches that provided Hitler with moral and spiritual cover. It was the ministers and churches that allowed Hitler to seduce the nation. Some ministers were no doubt deceived themselves. Many others, like Adam, partook of the forbidden fruit with their eyes wide open. Either way, without the help and assistance of Germany's churches, the Nazi Party could never have become such a horrible leviathan. Therefore, let's examine the attitudes and actions of Germany's ministers and churches and compare them to America's ministers and churches today to see if there is any similarity.

As we delve into this material, I want to strongly recommend that the reader purchase and devour a book to which I will repeatedly refer. The book is entitled, "Hitler's Cross." It is written by Erwin Lutzer and published by Moody Press. The book is absolutely phenomenal! If you do not read any other book this year (beside the Bible), read "Hitler's Cross."

Now, let's examine the evidence.

It is a fact that when Adolph Hitler began his ascent to power, many, if not most, of Germany's Christians believed he was an answer to their prayers. Lutzer says many Christians replaced pictures of Christ in their homes with pictures of Hitler. They truly believed Hitler was "God's man" for Germany. They believed that to resist Hitler was to resist God. And why not?

After all, Hitler revived Germany's collapsed economy. He eradicated the shame of Germany's defeat in WWI by reclaiming the Rhineland. He gave generous vacations to the German people. He created numerous trade schools that trained and equipped Germany's workers. Thus, almost overnight, Germany's vast unskilled labor force was replaced with highly skilled workers. In fact, under Hitler, Germany had virtually no unemployment. Furthermore, Hitler brought crime under control. He built freeways and highways that were the envy of Europe. He literally brought the German people out of poverty and despair and made them a great and proud people once again. As a result, the German people, including German Christians, loved him!

Unfortunately, as Hitler was building Germany's economy and strengthening its military, he was also taking away the rights and liberties of the German people. Remember, Germany was a republic before Hitler came along. The principles of individual freedom and constitutional government were at one time precious to Germans. However, most German people were willing to gladly trade their liberty and freedoms for Hitler's promise of security and strength. It was a bad trade then. It is a bad trade now!

Lutzer documents the fact that at the time of Hitler's rise, there were some 14,000 evangelical churches in Germany. To win the support of these churches, Hitler literally wrapped himself and the Nazi Party in the Cross of Jesus Christ. Even today, one can view photos from Nazi parades showing the Cross of Christ highlighted in the heart of the Nazi Swastika.

In short order, Germany's pastors and churches were convinced that the Nazi Party was God's party and Hitler was God's man. By the time Hitler consolidated power and became Germany's Fuhrer, the Nazi Swastika was displayed proudly on the walls and halls of Germany's churches, both Catholic and Protestant.

Germany's pastors often preached sermons supporting Hitler and the Nazi Party. They told their congregants that to support any other party or any other potential leader was to "fight against God." Very soon, congregants who refused to swear loyalty to Hitler were denied last rites and Holy Communion by Catholic priests, while Protestant pastors excommunicated such members. Romans chapter 13 was often quoted from Germany's pulpits as scriptural justification for demanding loyalty to Hitler.

Even the famous Canadian pastor, Oswald J. Smith (Pastor of the People's Church in Toronto), was taken with Hitler. In 1936 Smith wrote, "What, you ask is the real attitude of the German people toward Hitler? There is but one answer. They love him. Yes, from the highest to the lowest, children and parents, old and young alike, they love their new leader. They trust him to a man.

"What about your elections? I asked. 'We don't want another party. We are satisfied with Hitler.' And that feeling exists everywhere. Every true Christian is for Hitler. I know, for it was from the Christians I got most of my information, and right or wrong, they endorse Adolph Hitler." (Source: "Hitler's Cross" by Erwin Lutzer, pp. 109, 110)

One German pastor, Julius Leutherser gushed, "Christ has come to us through Hitler. [T]hrough his honesty, his faith and his idealism, the Redeemer found us." (Source "Hitler's Cross" by Lutzer, p. 101)

Lutzer writes on page 102 of his book, "[i]n Hitler's day being a good Christian involved being a good German nationalist. God and country were practically one and the same."

Germany's Christians forgot that Christ's kingdom "is not of this world." Their desire to restore Germany's greatness and their patriotism somehow dwarfed their commitment to Christ and their fidelity to republican principles. Accordingly, their trust in God was supplanted with trust in Hitler, and their allegiance to principles of freedom was replaced with allegiance to the Nazi Party.

Of course, Hitler knew exactly what he was doing. He knew he needed the support of Germany's churches and pastors and he played the role of Christian leader magnificently. Privately, however, he despised Germany's clergymen. He said, "The parsons will dig their own graves. They will betray their God to us. They will betray anything for the sake of their miserable jobs and incomes." How right he was!

Out of 14,000 German ministers, all but 800 gave Hitler their unequivocal and unflinching loyalty. Among the 800 was the great Christian patriot Dietrich Bonhoeffer who was later assassinated by Hitler's henchmen. Virtually all of the 800 courageous pastors who refused to support Hitler were sent to concentration camps.

What would have happened had 10,000 ministers in Germany resisted Hitler? What would have happened if 10,000 ministers would have refused to compromise their loyalty to Jesus Christ, their commitment to republican principles, and their devotion to sacred duty? What would have happened if 10,000 Christian ministers had not allowed the National Socialist Party to supplant their loyalty to God's Word?

It seems clear to me that the attitudes and actions of Nazi Germany's ministers and churches are being repeated in the United States today. To a large degree, Evangelicals have wrapped the Cross of Christ in the banner of the Republican Party. They quote Romans chapter 13 to justify their unflinching, yes, even blind support for President Bush. They are willing to surrender their freedoms and liberties so that President Bush might protect them. Pictures of the president almost universally line the halls and walls of our churches, Christian schools, and pastors' offices. They castigate and denigrate in the most caustic terms anyone who dares to challenge or even question President Bush. They are willing to let the president lead them into multiple wars, even wars of aggression, based solely on Bush's word. They refuse to hold the president accountable to the principles of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. It seems to me that President Bush has taken on the aura of an American Fuhrer in the minds of many Evangelicals.



Just how far are Evangelicals willing to allow Bush to go? They already support unbridled spying on American citizens. They have gladly surrendered their Fourth Amendment rights. Would they be willing to support the imprisonment of fellow Christians who don't support Bush if the Department of Homeland Security ordered it? I believe many would. And if so, how is that different from the attitudes of Christians in Nazi Germany?



Again, readers may dismiss my observations as inane if they want to. However, please notice that the focus of this column was not so much on Hitler but on the attitudes and actions of Germany's ministers and churches.

If the reader can honestly and objectively look at the history of Germany's ministers and churches and see no similarity to the attitudes and actions of America's ministers and churches today, so be it. To me, however, the similarities are striking!

© 2006 Chuck Baldwin - All Rights Reserved

[Toke-E-Yo]

wow. very brave....acusations (should I put it?) its gonna e interesting to see the arguments to this. BEGIN!

[anders]

I dont see it as accusatory just some food for thought. We saw how Hitler rose to power by soliving problems of the German people in his time so they ignored the fact that they were quickly losing freedom, like the American people now.

Any respectable ideas from forum members would be cool.

[kewell_RuLeS.]

leaders allways manipulate religion to win support for their courses, look though your history books it's nother new, weak minded people need something to believe in, same as the islamic people, bush and the arabs are both doing the same thing, i can see bush using religion to win hearts and minds, it won't get to Nazi type leavels, but maybe you have a point with the ealry nazi party, not the later.

[PALESTINO]

Originally Posted by kewell_RuLeS.

leaders allways manipulate religion to win support for their courses, look though your history books it's nother new, weak minded people need something to believe in, same as the islamic people, bush and the arabs are both doing the same thing, i can see bush using religion to win hearts and minds, it won't get to Nazi type leavels, but maybe you have a point with the ealry nazi party, not the later.

islamic people weak minded?where the fvck do you get your facts from?! what your saying is that islam is a religion of weak intellect.is that why it attracts most converts and is the fastest growing religion in the world...what i just stated was a fact.you get your facts straight and not just blabber whatever you need to achieve your goals.its amazing how you managed to squeeze that in

[wolverine]

Originally Posted by PALESTINO

islamic people weak minded?where the fvck do you get your facts from?! what your saying is that islam is a religion of weak intellect.is that why it attracts most converts and is the fastest growing religion in the world...what i just stated was a fact.you get your facts straight and not just blabber whatever you need to achieve your goals.its amazing how you managed to squeeze that in

Relax and cool down mate, he didn't say anything abt intellect. Infact u kinda bolstered his opinion, what he meant is that Islam provides some support and solace to weak and disturbed minds.

[PALESTINO]

Originally Posted by wolverine

Relax and cool down mate, he didn't say anything abt intellect. Infact u kinda bolstered his opinion, what he meant is that Islam provides some support and solace to weak and disturbed minds.

read his post again buddy."like islamic people".if he meant what you say he did,he'd use different wording.

islamic people i.e. people who believe in islam i.e. the whole muslim world.kewell rules please clarify what you meant...

[ulster21]

Are we witnessing the rise of the fourth reich? NO

Are we witnessing the first stages of the new civil war in europe between the indigenous Europeans and the Muslim immigrants?......... Riots in Paris, Bombings in London & Madrid, hatred of the so-called European Liberalism(protests over the danish cartoons.) YES

[kewell_RuLeS.]

Originally Posted by PALESTINO

read his post again buddy."like islamic people".if he meant what you say he did,he'd use different wording.

islamic people i.e. people who believe in islam i.e. the whole muslim world.kewell rules please clarify what you meant...

yeah look at some ISLAMIC people using your religion for there own personal goals, they use your religion to win support, just LIKE BUSH of america is doing, it's the same really.

if they didn't use religion people would just see them as the ***kheads they are.

[penalty_20]

You cant put all people of one religion into one group. That would be stereo typical. But I definetly think all of the Islamic stuff is totally wrong and I dont agree with it I respect the religion.

[Aryan]

Originally Posted by ulster21

Are we witnessing the rise of the fourth reich? NO

Are we witnessing the first stages of the new civil war in europe between the indigenous Europeans and the Muslim immigrants?......... Riots in Paris, Bombings in London & Madrid, hatred of the so-called European Liberalism(protests over the danish cartoons.) YES

Right said.
I think you can`t compare USA today and Germany back in 1933.

[Sumadinho]

"The war is on"

Are we witnessing the first stages of the new civil war in europe between the indigenous Europeans and the Muslim immigrants?.........

The War is On – Muslim Invader in Norway
Mullah Krekar, the alleged leader of the Islamist group Ansar al-Islam who has been living in Norway as a “refugee” since 1991, said that the publication of the Muhammad cartoons was a declaration of war.

“The war has begun,” he told Norwegian journalists.
Krekar said Muslims in Norway are preparing to fight. “It does not matter if the governments of Norway and Denmark apologize, the war is on.”

Islamist organizations all over the world are issuing threats towards Europeans. The Islamist terrorist group Hizbollah announced that it is preparing suicide attacks in Denmark and Norway. A senior imam in Kuwait, Nazem al-Masbah, said that those who have published cartoons of Muhammad should be murdered. He also threatened all citizens of the countries where the twelve Danish cartoons have been published with death.

The threats are not idle: in the Iranian capital Tehran, a mob 200 pelted the Austrian Embassy with petrol bombs and stones in a protest over the cartoons. The protesters, chanting "God is Greatest" and
"Europe, Europe, shame on you," smashed the building's windows and then tried to hurl petrol bombs inside.

Iran said Sunday it had recalled its ambassador to Denmark over the publication of the cartoons. The increasingly violent protests follow Sunday's tumult in Lebanon, where demonstrators set the Danish Consulate in Beirut on fire. By the time it was over, the 10-story consulate was destroyed, its entire front smashed.

Thousands of protesters packed the streets of the Lebanese capital, some clashing with security forces. The protests soon escalated into fights between Muslims and Christians, and some protesters threw rocks at a Maronite Catholic church.
On Saturday, protesters in neighboring Damascus, Syria, torched the Norwegian and the Danish Embassies.

[Ify 2.0]

Originally Posted by anders

Without a doubt, comparisons to Hitler have been overdone. It seems that when a writer disagrees with the policies of a sitting president, be he Republican or Democrat, there exists a ubiquitous temptation to compare him with the ignoble German leader. Some will no doubt charge this author with having succumbed to this temptation. Perhaps I have.

However, as a student of both the Bible and history, I believe we in America are living in times that are eerily reminiscent of the days leading up to the rise of the Third Reich. If after reviewing this thesis, the reader wants to dismiss its conclusions as insipid and irrelevant, he or she is certainly free to do so.

On the other hand, it would do the reader good to heed the words of George Santayana who said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." If America is truly flirting with any semblance of the fallacious and fallen Reich (which I believe it is), it is incumbent upon each and every true American (especially Christians) to renounce, reject, and repudiate such flirtations as early and as vociferously as possible!

There are many facets and aspects of the Third Reich which could and should be analyzed. For the purpose of this column, however, I want to focus on the attitude and actions of the ministers and churches of Germany at the time of Hitler's rise.

My focus upon the German church is predicated upon the fact that as a Christian pastor (I have been the pastor of an Independent Baptist Church for more than 30 years), it is my studied opinion that any western nation will rise or fall according to the attitudes and actions of its Christian leaders and churches. Scripture says, "Judgment must begin at the house of God." Therefore, while any nation might survive corrupt politicians, greedy merchants, and sinful citizens, it cannot survive cowardly, compromising churches! As the churches go, so goes the country!

In the case of Nazi Germany, it was the German churches first and foremost that failed their country. It was the churches that provided Hitler with moral and spiritual cover. It was the ministers and churches that allowed Hitler to seduce the nation. Some ministers were no doubt deceived themselves. Many others, like Adam, partook of the forbidden fruit with their eyes wide open. Either way, without the help and assistance of Germany's churches, the Nazi Party could never have become such a horrible leviathan. Therefore, let's examine the attitudes and actions of Germany's ministers and churches and compare them to America's ministers and churches today to see if there is any similarity.

As we delve into this material, I want to strongly recommend that the reader purchase and devour a book to which I will repeatedly refer. The book is entitled, "Hitler's Cross." It is written by Erwin Lutzer and published by Moody Press. The book is absolutely phenomenal! If you do not read any other book this year (beside the Bible), read "Hitler's Cross."

Now, let's examine the evidence.

It is a fact that when Adolph Hitler began his ascent to power, many, if not most, of Germany's Christians believed he was an answer to their prayers. Lutzer says many Christians replaced pictures of Christ in their homes with pictures of Hitler. They truly believed Hitler was "God's man" for Germany. They believed that to resist Hitler was to resist God. And why not?

After all, Hitler revived Germany's collapsed economy. He eradicated the shame of Germany's defeat in WWI by reclaiming the Rhineland. He gave generous vacations to the German people. He created numerous trade schools that trained and equipped Germany's workers. Thus, almost overnight, Germany's vast unskilled labor force was replaced with highly skilled workers. In fact, under Hitler, Germany had virtually no unemployment. Furthermore, Hitler brought crime under control. He built freeways and highways that were the envy of Europe. He literally brought the German people out of poverty and despair and made them a great and proud people once again. As a result, the German people, including German Christians, loved him!

Unfortunately, as Hitler was building Germany's economy and strengthening its military, he was also taking away the rights and liberties of the German people. Remember, Germany was a republic before Hitler came along. The principles of individual freedom and constitutional government were at one time precious to Germans. However, most German people were willing to gladly trade their liberty and freedoms for Hitler's promise of security and strength. It was a bad trade then. It is a bad trade now!

Lutzer documents the fact that at the time of Hitler's rise, there were some 14,000 evangelical churches in Germany. To win the support of these churches, Hitler literally wrapped himself and the Nazi Party in the Cross of Jesus Christ. Even today, one can view photos from Nazi parades showing the Cross of Christ highlighted in the heart of the Nazi Swastika.

In short order, Germany's pastors and churches were convinced that the Nazi Party was God's party and Hitler was God's man. By the time Hitler consolidated power and became Germany's Fuhrer, the Nazi Swastika was displayed proudly on the walls and halls of Germany's churches, both Catholic and Protestant.

Germany's pastors often preached sermons supporting Hitler and the Nazi Party. They told their congregants that to support any other party or any other potential leader was to "fight against God." Very soon, congregants who refused to swear loyalty to Hitler were denied last rites and Holy Communion by Catholic priests, while Protestant pastors excommunicated such members. Romans chapter 13 was often quoted from Germany's pulpits as scriptural justification for demanding loyalty to Hitler.

Even the famous Canadian pastor, Oswald J. Smith (Pastor of the People's Church in Toronto), was taken with Hitler. In 1936 Smith wrote, "What, you ask is the real attitude of the German people toward Hitler? There is but one answer. They love him. Yes, from the highest to the lowest, children and parents, old and young alike, they love their new leader. They trust him to a man.

"What about your elections? I asked. 'We don't want another party. We are satisfied with Hitler.' And that feeling exists everywhere. Every true Christian is for Hitler. I know, for it was from the Christians I got most of my information, and right or wrong, they endorse Adolph Hitler." (Source: "Hitler's Cross" by Erwin Lutzer, pp. 109, 110)

One German pastor, Julius Leutherser gushed, "Christ has come to us through Hitler. [T]hrough his honesty, his faith and his idealism, the Redeemer found us." (Source "Hitler's Cross" by Lutzer, p. 101)

Lutzer writes on page 102 of his book, "[i]n Hitler's day being a good Christian involved being a good German nationalist. God and country were practically one and the same."

Germany's Christians forgot that Christ's kingdom "is not of this world." Their desire to restore Germany's greatness and their patriotism somehow dwarfed their commitment to Christ and their fidelity to republican principles. Accordingly, their trust in God was supplanted with trust in Hitler, and their allegiance to principles of freedom was replaced with allegiance to the Nazi Party.

Of course, Hitler knew exactly what he was doing. He knew he needed the support of Germany's churches and pastors and he played the role of Christian leader magnificently. Privately, however, he despised Germany's clergymen. He said, "The parsons will dig their own graves. They will betray their God to us. They will betray anything for the sake of their miserable jobs and incomes." How right he was!

Out of 14,000 German ministers, all but 800 gave Hitler their unequivocal and unflinching loyalty. Among the 800 was the great Christian patriot Dietrich Bonhoeffer who was later assassinated by Hitler's henchmen. Virtually all of the 800 courageous pastors who refused to support Hitler were sent to concentration camps.

What would have happened had 10,000 ministers in Germany resisted Hitler? What would have happened if 10,000 ministers would have refused to compromise their loyalty to Jesus Christ, their commitment to republican principles, and their devotion to sacred duty? What would have happened if 10,000 Christian ministers had not allowed the National Socialist Party to supplant their loyalty to God's Word?

It seems clear to me that the attitudes and actions of Nazi Germany's ministers and churches are being repeated in the United States today. To a large degree, Evangelicals have wrapped the Cross of Christ in the banner of the Republican Party. They quote Romans chapter 13 to justify their unflinching, yes, even blind support for President Bush. They are willing to surrender their freedoms and liberties so that President Bush might protect them. Pictures of the president almost universally line the halls and walls of our churches, Christian schools, and pastors' offices. They castigate and denigrate in the most caustic terms anyone who dares to challenge or even question President Bush. They are willing to let the president lead them into multiple wars, even wars of aggression, based solely on Bush's word. They refuse to hold the president accountable to the principles of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. It seems to me that President Bush has taken on the aura of an American Fuhrer in the minds of many Evangelicals.



Just how far are Evangelicals willing to allow Bush to go? They already support unbridled spying on American citizens. They have gladly surrendered their Fourth Amendment rights. Would they be willing to support the imprisonment of fellow Christians who don't support Bush if the Department of Homeland Security ordered it? I believe many would. And if so, how is that different from the attitudes of Christians in Nazi Germany?



Again, readers may dismiss my observations as inane if they want to. However, please notice that the focus of this column was not so much on Hitler but on the attitudes and actions of Germany's ministers and churches.

If the reader can honestly and objectively look at the history of Germany's ministers and churches and see no similarity to the attitudes and actions of America's ministers and churches today, so be it. To me, however, the similarities are striking!

© 2006 Chuck Baldwin - All Rights Reserved

So you're comparing Bush to Hitler because they were both right-wingers and had a heavy Christian following? Are Bush's actions anywhere near what Hitler did? Do you see Bush ordering millions of people into concentration camps, having them killed, and performing some kind of ethnic cleansing like Hitler did? We've had presidents before that have sent troops to war based soley on their "word", so does that mean they were on a mission for world domination as well? Don't you think that if Bush really was the next Hitler, he would have sped things up a little? He's been in office, what- 6 years now, and there's nothing specifically evil about what he's done. Some of his intentions may be a bit shady but when it comes to politics, whose aren't?Your whole argument is mostly based on the fact that Bush's supporters are mostly Christians (as a lot of Republicans are), but that fact alone doesn't really say much.

I'm sick of hearing Liberals (and people in general) talk about preaching tolerance and how everyone should be equal, when at the same time they stereotype Christians into being huge hypocrites and all Republicans into being complete fools who don't know how to think for themselves. It's your opinion that you think Bush may be leading the "Fourth Reich", but without any real evidence to back that up other than the government is increasing Homeland Security and spying on us (which is due to 9/11 and the recent Terrorist attacks all over the world, not just so the government can be in control of everything), your entire post comes off as nothing but thinly-disguised Liberal propoganda.

Pictures of the president almost universally line the halls and walls of our churches, Christian schools, and pastors' offices.

I don't know what churches and schools you've been to, but I've never seen our president's picture "universally lining" the halls and walls of those specific buildings. But maybe I just don't have a good eye for things like that.

[Bosnian Unit]

Originally Posted by Ify 2.0

So you're comparing Bush to Hitler because they were both right-wingers and had a heavy Christian following? Are Bush's actions anywhere near what Hitler did? Do you see Bush ordering millions of people into concentration camps, having them killed, and performing some kind of ethnic cleansing like Hitler did? We've had presidents before that have sent troops to war based soley on their "word", so does that mean they were on a mission for world domination as well? Don't you think that if Bush really was the next Hitler, he would have sped things up a little? He's been in office, what- 6 years now, and there's nothing specifically evil about what he's done. Some of his intentions may be a bit shady but when it comes to politics, whose aren't?Your whole argument is mostly based on the fact that Bush's supporters are mostly Christians (as a lot of Republicans are), but that fact alone doesn't really say much.

I'm sick of hearing Liberals (and people in general) talk about preaching tolerance and how everyone should be equal, when at the same time they stereotype Christians into being huge hypocrites and all Republicans into being complete fools who don't know how to think for themselves. It's your opinion that you think Bush may be leading the "Fourth Reich", but without any real evidence to back that up other than the government is increasing Homeland Security and spying on us (which is due to 9/11 and the recent Terrorist attacks all over the world, not just so the government can be in control of everything), your entire post comes off as nothing but thinly-disguised Liberal propoganda.



I don't know what churches and schools you've been to, but I've never seen our president's picture "universally lining" the halls and walls of those specific buildings. But maybe I just don't have a good eye for things like that.

Its 21 century, it wouldent be democracy how they say if it was like that in USA !! But YES Bush/USA have prisons around the world where they have thousands of Muslims and they have no rights at all. In Abu Gharib there is even children 14-17 years old.

And dont forget what Americans did there.Did you forget those pictures ?

[Ify 2.0]

Originally Posted by Bosnian Unit

Its 21 century, it wouldent be democracy how they say if it was like that in USA !! But YES Bush/USA have prisons around the world where they have thousands of Muslims and they have no rights at all. In Abu Gharib there is even children 14-17 years old.

And dont forget what Americans did there.Did you forget those pictures ?

It might not be right what some of the soldiers are doing to the prisoners (there is no evidence that Bush is ordering them to do anything unlawful, infact the opposite), but the difference being that those prisoners are terrorists that have killed hundreds/thousands/who knows of people, while Hitler put innocent civilians in camps to be slaughtered by the masses. If you want to compare anybody to Hitler, Saddam or Bin Laden would be a better choice. Saddam was an evil dictator who had his own people killed because of his own selfish needs, and even though some may think Bin Laden has a reason for what he's doing, he still had many innocent civilians murdered all for his "cause." And the fact that the prisoners in the American camps are Muslim is moot. We capture them because they are criminals, and some or most just happen to be Muslims as well. Hitler put the Jews into concentration camps to be killed soley because they were Jews, even though they had done nothing wrong. I could go on and on and on...but I'm sure you get my point.