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View Poll Results: Who is more corrupt Blatter or Havelange?
Sepp Blatter - current Fifa President 16 88.89%
Joao Havelange - former Fifa President 2 11.11%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-01-2005, 01:40 PM   #1
soccerates
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Default Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

I was digging through old archives and came up with this beauty, detailing the bribes, corruption and yes conspiracies for the leadership of FIFA.

If anyone ever had doubts before, go ahead and read this masterpiece:

http://www.soccernet.com/global/news...ningsmain.html

So after reading that I pose the question. Who is worse Havelange or Blatter?
I'm sure many of our resident Brazilians would agree that Havelange's son-in-law (president of the CBF) is very corrupt as well. Havelange had a major 'hand' in putting his son-in-law in the proper position, and millions of dollars have gone missing from CBF funds in past years.

**********************************************************
repost of article:



Thursday, February 28, 2002
Havelange to Blatter - the dynasty based on corruption
By Andrew Jennings

The presedential black Mercedes pulled away from the front door of the luxury Hotel Salam in Bamako, Mali, host of last month's African Nations Cup.

Blatter: Truth revealed?

(BenRadford/Allsport)
In the back seat was the man who has it all. Not FIFA president Sepp Blatter, but the man who created him and the soccer empire now crumbling under the weight of its own corruption.

Brazil's Joao Havelange, now aged 84, had FIFA in his iron grasp from 1974 until 1998, when he pulled all world soccer's levers to place his protege (Blatter) on his throne.

He had little choice. The front runner in early 1998 to replace Havelange was Europe's Lennart Johansson. The big, blond Swede was globally respected for his integrity. He had to be prevented from discovering FIFA's dark secrets and the sleazy truth about Havelange's 24-year dictatorial reign.

And Havelange, forced to quit the presidency after the debacle of awarding this year's World Cup Finals to both Korea and Japan, was unwilling to surrender the life of privilege and luxury provided by the world of football.

Blatter, now 65, won the presidency, and Havelange took the title of honorary president, continuing to enjoy his lavish FIFA perks. His chauffeur from the old days has been kept on and was even flown out to Mali.

He was reportedly seen piloting the honorary president around Salt Lake City earlier this month. In the clubby world of sports lead-ers, Havelange is also a senior member of the International Olympic Committee.

He would never have lasted as FIFA president without the German entrepreneur Horst Dassler.

The legendary boss of the adidas company, Dassler routinely arranged the election of the presidents of the IOC, world athletics and many other federations. In return, his Swiss-based marketing company, International Sport and Leisure, acquired exclusive marketing contracts.

Dassler died in 1987 and adidas has since changed hands. Jean Marie Weber became president of ISL and continued that company's close relations with sports leaders.

Havelange had taken power with a mixture of promises and manipulations. Even then, Africa was seen as the crucial voting bloc and one observer of the vote in Frankfurt in 1974 claimed it was won with 'small brown envelopes going into big black hands'.

It was alleged that diplomats based in Europe turned up to vote, instead of members of their national federations.

Havelange had toured the world with Brazil's sublime soccer team and visited countries almost unknown to the incumbent, Britain's Sir Stanley Rous.

Havelange promised an expansion in coaching and tournaments. It would all benefit football. The problem was that he did not have the money to keep his election pledges. Dassler solved his problem. He was given the marketing contract, sweet-talked the Coca-Cola company to back the alien sport of soccer - and everybody got rich.

As FIFA grew, Dassler hand-picked Blatter to run the new soccer programmes. Blatter was taken to Dassler's base in Landesheim, France, and trained in his ways of doing business.

At the end of 1997, Johansson, then 68, was the only candidate to replace Havelange. Blatter attended the Confederations Cup, held that year in Saudi Arabia, then flew off to Qatar in the Gulf to meet his backers. But he refused to declare that he was a candidate.

As UEFA fumed, he delayed announcing his candidature until late March 1998. Blatter's initial problem was in finding a major soccer nation to sponsor him. He recruited Michel Platini, the celebrated former France captain, to his election team and the French federation duly announced that it was switching its support away from Johansson.

Blatter was up and running. It was widely rumoured that French president Jacques Chirac, himself under investigation for sleaze, placed personal calls to the presidents of French-speaking countries in Africa, asking them to pressurise their football federations to back Blatter.

Behind the scenes Havelange waged a relentless campaign for Blatter. He should have been neutral, remained above the fray. Instead he secretly promised cash and favours to delegates to the Paris election in return for votes for Blatter. Soccernet has acquired some of the correspondence.

It seems that Havelange was working in concert with Mohamed Bin Hamman from Qatar, alleged to be the paymaster behind much of Blatter's vote-gathering in Africa.

In early April, Havelange wrote to the general secretary of Somali soccer 'confirming my promise to you concerning the presence of two delegates for the FIFA Congress in Paris. The cost of travelling for one delegate will be charged to FIFA, as decided, and the other, as I promised you, will be my responsibility, as well as the cost of accommodation.'

The FIFA president added the promise of two free trips to Brazil. Midway through April, Havelange was at it again. This time he was courting the president and general secretary of the East African soccer federation.

He promised: 'The FIFA finance department will soon pay you the amount of $50,000 for the functioning of your secretariat for the next two years. Please send FIFA your bank address and number of account.'

It is surprising that FIFA did not already have on file the bank details of one of its affiliated federations. Havelange went on to pledge a free fax machine and photocopier to each association in the region.

Even more surprising was that Antonio Matarrese of UEFA, the vice-president of FIFA's finance committee, was unaware of the payments. When he found out on the eve of the election, he wrote to the finance director demanding to know who had approved the payment, what bank account it had gone to and for a list of all similar transactions in the previous three months.

He was denied this information. Havelange was even more explicit in a letter to Hong Kong's Timothy Fok, whose tycoon father Henry had been a member of FIFA's executive committee.

Havelange asked Fok Jnr to 'use your influence on the federations of Hong Kong, Macau, China and North Korea' to vote for Blatter. Following Blatter's election, Henry Fok was given FIFA's Order of Merit and last year Timothy Fok was appointed to the IOC. Earlier this month the IOC appointed a Qatar prince, aged 21, and a Saudi prince, aged 23, to its ranks.

Blatter went into the Paris election on June 8 with the backing of Jack Warner, who has controlled the 35 votes in the Caribbean, Central America and North America for the last decade, and his American general secretary, Chuck Blazer.

Blatter could also count on the 10 votes from South America, heavily influenced by Havelange's son-in-law, Ricardo Teixeira, the corrupt boss of Brazilian football, and Paraguay's Nicolas Leoz, also a member of FIFA's executive committee.

Europe, which had initially been 100 per cent behind Johansson, was peeled like an onion, and the English FA was among the defectors. Africa was also divided, but until the result was declared, few outside Blatter's camp realised how devastating was the damage to African unity.

In a last-minute gesture to rally his troops, Havelange strode across the floor of the FIFA convention and publicly embraced Saudi Arabia's Prince Faisal Fahd Abdul Aziz.

It was rumoured that the Saudis, along with Qatar, had invested $5million to fund Blatter. The prince died a year later, a victim, said his critics, of debauchery and drug addiction.

The embrace was the cue for the voting. As Blatter's camp had predicted, he defeated Johansson by 111 votes to 80. The Swede was devastated. With tears in his eyes, he conceded victory.

At Blatter's Press conference, German reporter Jens Wienreich asked him about allegations that his campaign had been funded from the Gulf and he replied: 'The match is over. The players have already gone to the dressing-room, I will not respond.'

That evening Blatter went to Le Meridien Hotel where most rank-and-file delegates were staying, some at the expense of their national associations, others on the largesse of Havelange and his backers in the Gulf.

Blatter schmoozed through the lobby, shaking a hand here, clasping a shoulder there. Later that night, the mood changed when Issa Hayatou, president of African soccer, arrived, roused from his bed at the Hotel Bristol by a call telling him that bundles of cash were being handed out to delegates who had voted for Blatter.

'Unfortunately, by the time I arrived it had gone quiet,' he said later. The Empire was intact.

Havelange had seamlessly secured the succession. World football was now a trinket owned and shame-lessly displayed by oil billionaires from the Gulf whose national soccer teams have yet to make an impact on the game.

It was not to last. The wounds from the dirty campaign ran deep and the sores would not heal. Blatter lacked the indomitable arrogance of Havelange and was unable to dispel rumours that the election had been bought. Europe would never forgive him for the election.

Asian football, divided between the East which supported Johansson and the Gulf which had bankrolled Blatter, were united in revolt at the FIFA Congress in Los Angeles in 1999, when Blatter denied them an additional place in the World Cup Finals.

UEFA stepped in and offered help with the compromise of a play-off. Iran, however, were unable to capitalise on the opportunity, losing to the Republic of Ireland.

The debacle over the hosting of the 2006 World Cup Finals weakened Blatter further. Africa was outraged that he did not keep his campaign promise to send the championships to South Africa.

Remarkably, Blatter was trying to recycle the promises in Tokyo yesterday. Oceania, fierce Blatter supporters, were being seduced with the prospect of an automatic World Cup Finals place.

Africa, increasingly sceptical, was promised the possibility of a jointly hosted World Cup in 2010 and the fiercely anti-Blatter Asians were told they would have to earn an extra spot in the 2006 Finals.

There seems as much cynicism this week as there was in July last year when Blatter was approaching a potentially damaging defeat at the conference in Buenos Aires.

Criticism was growing about Warner's style of leading North and Central America (CONCACAF) and so the only solid core of support seemed to come from Latin America. So how did Blatter survive?


Andrew Jennings is the award-winning author of three books tackling the subject of corruption inside the International Olympic Committee.

Last edited by soccerates; 11-01-2005 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 11-01-2005, 01:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

And yet another:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/inter...664897,00.html

Blatter denies claim he bribed his way to football's top job

Observer Worldview

Denis Campbell, sports news correspondent
Sunday March 10, 2002
The Observer


Sepp Blatter, the man in charge of world football, yesterday dismissed claims he secured the game's top job through bribery, as a corruption scandal threatened to plunge the sport into chaos. The president of Fifa, football's governing body, insisted he had nothing to hide from an investigation into allegations that up to £200m of television money went missing during his four years in charge of the sport.

The controversial Swiss is alleged to have only got his post in 1998 after $100,000 bribes were offered to Fifa delegates to vote for him rather than European football chief Lennart Johansson.

Blatter, who is now fighting to hold on to his job, insisted he was not worried by the creation of a six-man investigative audit team to probe Fifa's murky finances. He claims Fifa suffered only a £22m shortfall after sports marketing firm ISL, one of the main providers of Fifa's revenue, imploded with debts of £850m, but critics claim it was over £200m.

'Allegations have been made in 1998 which have been the subject of inquiries and in court, and these have been settled and I am not going to give a platform to those who doubt the correctness of my election in 1998', he said at Fifa headquarters in Zurich after a meeting of its ruling executive committee, where his critics now hold a majority.

'If somebody has to make remarks or disapprove of the president, it is the Congress and not the audit committee. I have nothing to hide. There were some specific questions this morning and they were specifically, openly answered. We work with such a transparency in Fifa.'

It is still unclear whether the inquiry will examine the strange circumstances which led to Blatter's surprise victory over Johannson in 1998 after about 20 Fifa delegates, mainly from Africa, suddenly changed their votes at the last minute, or just the ISL affair.

It is now almost certain that Blatter will be challenged when he seeks re-election to football's top job in late May, just before the World Cup starts. Issa Hayatou, president of the African Football Confederation, is expected to announce next weekend that he will run on a 'fresh start for Fifa' platform.

author:
denis.campbell@observer.co.uk
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Old 11-01-2005, 02:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

You have a sort of "academical question" in your poll.
I don't have a choice myself.
In my opinion Havelange is the one who discover how to make money with the organization of football and every means were legitimate if at the end there was money coming out of the negotiation. Blatter is his legitimate successor.

Very interesting the reports, thanks for the info. I had already read that kind of report and I don't question their veracity.

I just fear that just because everybody knows FIFA is a corrupt organization people go on elaborating conspiracy theories regarding the World Cup supporting them on that fact.

I must admit, although I knew the texts circulating in the internet right after the '98 WC final were ridiculous, I still had some doubts every now and then, after some other things happened. But I still prefer to believe (and I do!) everything is nothing but product of creativity of football fans and willing to spread rumours.

Havelange and Blatt are imo both corrupt.
But personally, I don't know who is able to get to a higher level in any football confederation (or "big" federation) keeping his hands completely clear ...
I prefer not to judge.
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Old 11-02-2005, 03:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronni
You have a sort of "academical question" in your poll.
I don't have a choice myself.
In my opinion Havelange is the one who discover how to make money with the organization of football and every means were legitimate if at the end there was money coming out of the negotiation. Blatter is his legitimate successor.

Very interesting the reports, thanks for the info. I had already read that kind of report and I don't question their veracity.

I just fear that just because everybody knows FIFA is a corrupt organization people go on elaborating conspiracy theories regarding the World Cup supporting them on that fact.
Yeah I thought about that at first when I posted this...there might be illogical conclusions derived from knowing that Fifa bosses have possibly been corrupted, or are corruptable, but I think the earnest reader will be able to discern that corruption in this case involved matters of power at the organizational level. Whether that flows over in the tournament itself is something that we will never know and will likely have to speculate on for the duration of it's existence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronni
I must admit, although I knew the texts circulating in the internet right after the '98 WC final were ridiculous, I still had some doubts every now and then, after some other things happened. But I still prefer to believe (and I do!) everything is nothing but product of creativity of football fans and willing to spread rumours.

Havelange and Blatt are imo both corrupt.
But personally, I don't know who is able to get to a higher level in any football confederation (or "big" federation) keeping his hands completely clear ...I prefer not to judge.
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Old 11-02-2005, 06:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

not surprised really.

all these types of bureaucracies are somehow corrupted
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Old 11-03-2005, 06:45 AM   #6
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

I knew it all along. Blatter and his peeps disgust me and not surprisingly the last world cups have been terrible.
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Old 11-03-2005, 07:56 AM   #7
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItalianBoy
I knew it all along. Blatter and his peeps disgust me and not surprisingly the last world cups have been terrible.
Be aware that our subjective perception that a world cup is good or bad is very much influenced by the way the team we support plays or if it's successful or not.

I think Fifa doesn't have that much influence on this. Good WCs were always "good" due to the players on the field, not to the managers outside. Nobody sitting at a desk could spoil what Maradona '86 or Zidane '98 did. Nobody is able to create or destroy entertaining teams like Brazil '82 or Cameroon '90. Nothing can write outside the pitch a fairy tale like Ronaldo '02.

Sometimes the teams we support the most are out, and we lose the interest in the competition. And we start thinking that this edition of World Cup isn't good.
Or our team struggles until the final without deserving even to get out of the group phase, then lose it on penalty kicks and we think the whole WC was bad ...
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Old 11-08-2005, 10:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

I hate Havelange. He's a bad man, never help us in anything. He always said shits about brazilian soccer, and had a big fight against Pelé. In my opinion, Havelange is a big shame to Brazil.
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Old 11-08-2005, 10:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronni
Be aware that our subjective perception that a world cup is good or bad is very much influenced by the way the team we support plays or if it's successful or not.
Pls dude... don't you out of all people try to start shit huh?
I saw the WC, I saw how other teams got "played" and how Brazil got a Pk OUTSIDE of the area huh? Maybe you need to actually watch the WC to judge.... pfff!
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Old 11-09-2005, 08:21 AM   #10
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItalianBoy
Pls dude... don't you out of all people try to start shit huh?
I saw the WC, I saw how other teams got "played" and how Brazil got a Pk OUTSIDE of the area huh? Maybe you need to actually watch the WC to judge.... pfff!
Sorry. I don't understand your post as an answer to my one.
Moreover, I ask you to maintain the level of the conversation.
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Old 11-09-2005, 09:00 AM   #11
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

I think it's pretty clear that the ranks of FIFA are very well corrupt, it makes one only wonder how far down the ladder that corruption travels and what the resultant effects are. Can they really ever be trusted though? I mean with corruption at the helm, why would be so naive to believe that it can never sift down the ladder? I think one suspect situation that Fifa has agreed to is the DFB's request to have Brazil put in group F (I comment without knowing for sure, but because I read that Ronni has stated this elsewhere, perhaps if he reads this he might be able to endear us with a source?), thereby making it impossible for Germany and Brazil to meet any earlier than the semi's. Looks like Fifa has agreed to help influence this not so random meeting . Kind of makes you wonder how they might "influence" other meetings?
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:37 AM   #12
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerates
I comment without knowing for sure, but because I read that Ronni has stated this elsewhere, perhaps if he reads this he might be able to endear us with a source?
There are many in the internet. I picked one from the ZDF - one of the two german public televisions that got the transmission rights of the WC in Germany - I would consider them reliable.

Samba in Dortmund, Berlin und München

WM 2006: Brasilien wohl Kopf der Gruppe F

Die Fußball-Fans in Berlin, München und Dortmund können sich bei der Weltmeisterschaft im kommenden Jahr auf Spiele mit Titelverteidiger Brasilien freuen. Wie das WM-Organisationskomitee indirekt bestätigte, sollen die Südamerikaner als Kopf der Gruppe F gesetzt werden. "Noch ist das nicht offiziell, aber man kann davon ausgehen, dass es so kommt", sagte ein OK-Sprecher.

Damit würden sich der fünfmalige Weltmeister und die deutsche Nationalmannschaft längstmöglich aus dem Weg gehen. Gewinnen beide Mannschaften ihre Gruppen, könnten sie bei weiterem erfolgreichen WM-Verlauf erst im Finale aufeinander treffen.
20.10.2005


(my own translation): "Samba in Dortmund, Berlin and Munich - Brasilien seeded as head of group F
The football fans in Berlin, Munich and Dortmund can look forward to see matches of defending champions Brazil during the World Championship next year. As indirectly confirmed by the World Cup Organizing Comitee, the south americans should be seeded in Group F. 'This isn't official yet, but we can count on it' - said a spokesman of the Organization Comitee.
In this way the 5 times World Champions and the German National Team would avoid each one as long as possible. In the case both teams win their groups, being successful in the rest of the WC they would face each other only in the final. 20th Okt 2005".

Our German friends could please correct my translation, if they think anything isn't ok.
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:46 AM   #13
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerates
Looks like Fifa has agreed to help influence this not so random meeting . Kind of makes you wonder how they might "influence" other meetings?
Let's avoid this kind of conspiracy rumours. If there is someone who considers FIFA corrupt, that's me. But on these aspects they do play with open cards. They show everybody what they're doing and we're able to contest or not.

In this case they have the excuse of "avoiding hosts and defending champions to face each other too early", since this is perhaps always the most "interesting" match, no matter which names are behind these concepts.

I believe the draw will be correct and fair. They're corrupt but not stupid.

If something is not necessarily fair it's the distribution of the groups - they'll do it the way they consider it best for their purposes. Also the distribution of the 8 seeds. They'll find out a formula that matches the teams they'd like to seed themselves.
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Old 11-09-2005, 05:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronni
Let's avoid this kind of conspiracy rumours.
No let's not, and it's not a conspiracy rumor when in fact the Fifa did help engineer the DBF's request. Secondly the fruit of a tree is only as good as the tree itself. Blatte and Havelange threatened by coercion and with bribes other member nations in order to get Blatter re-elected just prior to the World Cup - Senegal was one of them. Another African nation went public and I'm sure who they are...they're league has since been railroaded and their NT horribly accused and punished. Is that a coincidence to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronni
If there is someone who considers FIFA corrupt, that's me. But on these aspects they do play with open cards. They show everybody what they're doing and we're able to contest or not.

In this case they have the excuse of "avoiding hosts and defending champions to face each other too early", since this is perhaps always the most "interesting" match, no matter which names are behind these concepts.

I believe the draw will be correct and fair. They're corrupt but not stupid.
Anyone remember how China earned an entry into the last cup? It may have been a coincidence that Brazil was allowed to "practice" vs China in the opening round, and then maybe not. We are allowed to speculate on other things, so what's your worry about speculating the obvious in this draw - that Fifa has already fixed it to work in a certain way...that means it's NOT 100% random as was suggested. Sorry Ronni if that bothers you.
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Old 11-09-2005, 06:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: Fifa Corruption. Who was worse Havelange or Blatter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerates
Anyone remember how China earned an entry into the last cup? It may have been a coincidence that Brazil was allowed to "practice" vs China in the opening round, and then maybe not. We are allowed to speculate on other things, so what's your worry about speculating the obvious in this draw - that Fifa has already fixed it to work in a certain way...that means it's NOT 100% random as was suggested. Sorry Ronni if that bothers you.
I must admit ... you're a genius.
You find out the answers yourself while out there there are plenty of journalists eager to find out anything they could bring up to the surface.

I'm sorry, soccerates. But each day you give me less reasons to believe anything you say.
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