Opinion on V. Basten coaching abilities

[Langbaard]

I'm curious to see what people from other countries think about V.Basten coaching abilities.

Statisticly he's doing great, winning alot of games, very very few losses and a decent amount of draws.

But being honest he never really had any tough challenges and when he does, well you can see where Holland fails where they used to shine.
Winning 2 -1 from Albania (!) in a horrible match, still comes on top as a victory, winning 1 - 0 from Luxembourg (!) in an ever more horrible match he still manages to win ( but yeah who wouldn't ).

Games against the top countries is where we fail, England friendly a few weeks ago 1 -1, which we should normally win.
Before the WC, losing 3 - 1 to Italy, at the WC alright Portugal was a game different, but still we lost very early on on the tournament.

Germany, also a draw before the WC (2 - 2 ), with the ECQ we are very lucky to be in such an easy poule ( Albanie, Bulgaria, Luxembourg etc etc ).

As a Dutchman I'm missing the glory I used to feel when watching Holland, seeing the best players of my country playing fantastic dominant football.
Now V.Basten is coaching Holland U-21 so it seems, the dominant spell is gone, middle-class young ones instead of V. Nistelrooy, V. Bommel, Seedorf, Davids etc., because V.Basten prefers a certain harmony in his team.

V.Basten never coached any team before except Ajax 2 ( Ajax U21 ).. a good coach would choose footballing qualities over friendship, I think this is were V.Basten inexperience shows, also with certain decisions etc.

V.Basten says he's choosing players on the way they are playing at the moment, but why does he keep calling up Danny Landzaat for example, while he has missed thousands of chances for Holland, plays horribly for Wigan Athletic at the moment and never ever really brought anything extra to the team, this inspite of players like V.Nistelrooy, V. Bommel who could actually decide a game.

I'm sure other people remembered a much more dominant and greater Holland than you see now, or am I totally wrong.

I hope one day Hiddink will return for his father nation, although I doubt that as he's high on the list of Abramovitsj for a replacement of Mourinho.

Come to think of it, I can't recall any game won against a top country under V.Basten, something which Holland in the past didn't have much of a problem with.

Your thoughts please.

Edit: also, players like V.D Vaart, Sneijder, Huntelaar etc. would do far greater playing with experienced older players who could bring them to an ever higher level, rather than them being the ones bringing even younger inexperienced players where talent is still questionable to their lvl.

Personally I think V.Basten should coach some 1st division/amateur clubs to get some coaching experience, to learn more insights, where rookie mistakes aren't fatal, I mean it's a team more than 16 million people love, where mistakes count greater than one where a team only has 2500 supporters.

[holicman]

Interesting topic

I dont what to say about Van Basten.

He was a great player,but is he a great a coach?
I dont think so, but I dont think he is a bad coach.

In saying that, what are your thoughts about Robben and could he learn from the more experienced players ??

He is around the same age as Van de Vaart, and I have always thought of Van de Vaart a better player than Robben.

Do you think that Robben could learn alot from the more experienced players ??

Would this stop him from diving and being so over dramatic when being tackled ?

[Langbaard]

Interesting point of view, but yeah, I think he would have been more down to earth if players like Jaap Stam or Edgar Davids would still be on the team, dog fighters who would go down till the end and never ever fake a tackle.

With players like that on a team Robben and some others could learn from it or be inspired, or Stam/Davids could force them to not be such drama queens with the amount of respect they have.

Robben is now shown as Holland's playmaker which first of all is way to much credit for him, I agree V.D Vaart or a Van Persie is actually alot better and with some older, experienced players the succes won't go up to their heads.

V.Basten is more the type of coach who wants a team with only pure footballers, I think that's where he's wrong, you really need some fighters who can also win physical battles, if you see Holland's squad now where are the real men like Stam, Davids and those guys ? you can't win every game pure on footballing qualities.

Edit: There's one example I didn't come up with first, Boulahrouz is that type of player, alright one then.

[holicman]

What about someone like Cocu ??

I think he could possibly teach these young guys a thing or 2.

[Langbaard]

Yeah, Cocu was a great leader, unfortunately, like Stam, both have retired from international football now, while they could still have contributed a great amount of insight, inspiration and other qualities to them young ones.

Cocu also noted yesterday, something I said long ago, he was wrongly used at the WC, being a left half attacking midfielder, rather than being controlling defensive midfielder, a position which he was born to fullfill.

In an interview he said he told V.Basten about his preffered role at the WC, feeling he would do much better if he'd be defensive midfielder, but even as he told V.Basten this, V.Basten did nothing with it while letting a very talented attacking midfielder like Wesley Sneijder to do the defensive controlling task.

Little faults and wrong decisions from V.Basten which could have been fatal, Sneijder is amazing as attacking midfielder and Cocu's role as defensive controlling midfielder unmissable, I still can't understand why V.Basten did this even as both players indicated they wanted other roles and definetely weren't at full potential at their roles.

With V.D Sar being the only really experienced player now at Holland's side, he's a goalie and well, you need some experienced players in the field as well to take the team to a next level and give them a shouting when they fake a tackle on that aspect.

Why not go through till the end to still make something of the chance, to many times Robben goes down, 8 out of 10 times the ref sees this and rightfully does nothing and good chances are spilled because of this.

I'm curious how things will develop, V.D Sar will retire from int. football not to long from now and Holland's most experienced player is V.Bronckhorst after that, who's a very good left-back but definetely not a leader.

I agree V.Basten was an amazing footballer, but there are certain factors which can enhance a team completely which V.Basten refuses to use, like more physical players, experienced players with more leadership and simply better players, who might have a big ego, but a good coach should be able to handle that, rather than letting the player adjust to his (failing) system.

V.Basten will most likely be a great coach in the future, unfortunately he's getting the favourite child treatment from the KNVB (Dutch Football Association) to rapidly learn with the best players, but why does Holland as a football nation has to suffer under that.

His motto is to build a team for the future, his own words were during the World Cup his real mind was set on the European Cup and the WC was a learning process for a completely new team.

How can a EC be more important than a WC ? why was it always possible in the past to create a fantastic strong teams and now all of a sudden we have to do with a team full of young ones to build for the future ?

A football nation should consist of the country's best players, to achieve the best result at any tournament, what happens if V.Basten fails at the EC, it'll simply be forgotten.. there isn't really much improvement from the moment he started.

I can write alot of pages since this subject is really close to my heart, but I simply miss the pride when Holland is playing, seeing some players wearing the Holland jersey while having no right, while other far better players are left behind due to being assholes.

Advocaat wasn't that good as a coach, sometimes being scolded by some of his players, but that didn't let him leave out the best players of our country, even if he did the whole country would go crazy including the media.

Because V.Basten was such a great footballer and has such a reputation, he can do it.. and that's the problem, he's got to much reputation and charisma to get the sack.

Advocaat reached the semi's and got sacked, V.Basten didn't even reach the quarter-finals which for Dutch standards is to low, but you know what happened after the WC... the KNVB offered V.Basten a contract extension to 2010.. (fortunately he didn't accept )

[Niels14]

I fully agree with Langbaards extensive analysis on Van Basten's flaws. I think a coach shoudl try to make a team out of the best players. Dropping one or two because their characters might not fit, seems okay. But not dropping Seedorf, Van Nistelrooij, Van Bommel and Davids.

A cohesive team makes players better, but so do top players. With Van Bommel or Davids on the pitch, I'm sure the others would play better as well. Van Persie would get more room to shine if he plays with Van Nistelrooy than if he plays with Babel.

And regarding Robben; I'm not sure whether he is as open to learn new things as for example Van Persie is. Van Persie really respects the older players, and tries to improve based upon what he sees in them. With Robben I have my doubts; he seems to think he is already at the top.

[newtonbrook]

Good Blog.Alot of politics in Dutch football. My two cents, As a Dutch fan I was embarassed at times with Robben's theatrics. The point made above that the Dutch squad lacked veterans willing to dress Robben down is a point well made.

[Langbaard]

Aye, that's the main problem with the Dutch side, V.Basten is a difficult coach to read, sometimes he really impresses me with his style of play, other times I am rather dissapointed.

What I do admire is the fact he tries to go back to the Dutch '70 and '80 football, even so with not the best players, the idea behind it is truly great and in some matches I have to admit my opinion on V.Basten has been wrong.

It is a fact he makes rookie mistakes and the Dutch side definetely miss some experience, from another point of view, this actually improves the Dutch football as a whole, more players have the ability to show their worth and grow from the experience.

It is really something to perceive, V.Basten really has a dream with Dutch football and in a way I lack the ability to view it entirely, in one aspect this is good since I prefer not knowing it better, but on occasions I am right in my views and it's a deep discussion here in Holland.

I really have faith in our ability, although like I mentioned before, I see ways where this could improve, like more dog fighters, experienced players.. although it does hurt the 'true football' morale behind it which V.Basten tries to uphold..

Although I may have sound negative, I think it is always good to perceive things in a negative way, this is what alot of Dutch people do and is actually quite a strength we want to keep improving, improving and improving our play.

We will easily qualify for Euro 2008 and it will be there where we will see what the end result might be... Dutch football, you gotta love it

[newtonbrook]

Well said Langbaard. Euro 2008 seems almost a sure thing, especially with a win against Romania this spring. It will be interesting who VB plays. What bothers me is that Van B has bridges burnt with some of the key veterans such as Jap Stam and Ruud Van Nistelrooy. You never know, with injuries always a issue, if those players could be of use. Having said all that you cannot always make everyone happy. Tough decisions have to be made. Critisism will always be made. When Canada loses in Olympic Hockey, such as what happened in Turin, fingers were pointed at Coach Wayne Gretzky for personal choices. You will always have monday morning quarterbacks.

[Langbaard]

Van Nistelrooy would still love to play for Holland, fortunately there is some progress in the relationship between V.Basten and Ruud so we might see him back in Oranje not to long from now, although nothing is certain yet.

Jaap Stam unfortunately resigned from International duties, with Van Der Sar in the goal and Stam leading the defense, I can only dream what would have happened on the World Cup... but what has happened has happened.

Things are looking more bright with Seedorf in the starting line-up, V.Basten also admitted his mistakes and is following Davids at Ajax now.

Imagine a midfield like this:

---------Davids----------
Sneijder------------Seedorf
-------Van Der Vaart------

Davids would do the controlling defensive task, even having the abillity to press on with the attack, Seedorf can use his abillities to contribute to the attack, make sure there is rest in the team and assist VDV and Sneijder.

Sneijder and Van Der Vaart could both have a switching free role, both with incredible creative minds which could honestly make any defense mad, add to that the support from Davids and Seedorf I'd say we could have one of the strongest midfields in the world.

Then look at our bench, we have a dozen amount of talented youngsters, even players like Van Bommel could fit in on the midfield.

Up front players like Van Persie, Van Nistelrooy, Makaay, Babel, Robben, Kuyt, Huntelaar and think of what possiblities you can make with that attacking front !

I'd go for something like this:

Van Persie----Van Nistelrooy----Babel

Leaving Robben out specificly, not because of his qualities, but to learn his place in the team and stop with that ridicoulous falling.

Babel is more a player that works for the team, opening the opposition defense and GIVING the ball to Van Nistelrooy, while still having the abillity to shoot hard at the ball, Robben goes for own succes 9 out of 10 times.

Van Persie is also a team player, but really has the abillity to decide a game or let Van Nistelrooy put in the ball in the rebound which he is perfect at.

Now for the defense, central we have Boulahrouz, Matthijssen, Ooijer, Heitinga, I'd personally go for ----Boulahrouz---Heitinga--- considering Ooijer's and Matthijssen's bad form.

Leftback we have a strong selection of choices: Van Bronckhorst, Emanuelson, and a load of other youngsters.

On the right, which is actually Holland's weakest point, we have Kromkamp and Jaliens, who are quite good footballers and could do their job right.

Van Der Sar as our ultimate goalie, while having Stekelenburg, a young Ajax keeper to replace him in the future and still have a great goalie.

The line-up would look like something like this:

----------------Van Der Sar--------------
Kromkamp--Boulahrouz--Heitinga--Van Bronckhorst
------------------Davids---------------------
Sneijder---------------------------Seedorf
--------------Van Der Vaart-------------------
-------Van Nistelrooy------Van Persie----------

Babel, Robben, Van Bommel, Mathijssen as possible subs to boost the attack or players like Mathijssen, Van Bommel to reinforce the defense in the defense/midfield.

In this vision, I disagree with Van Basten, because this is alot and alot stronger team in my opinion, but still I give V.Basten the benefit of the doubt, because even with 'lesser' players he manages to play beautifull football as a 'team' ..

I will see what happens on Euro 2008, players with indivual quality can easily decide a game, V.Basten really wants to win it based on the team's football.

BTW think of how Van Persie, Van Der Vaart and Sneijder could play together... with the experience from Davids and Seedorf... it would be the true meaning of football, VDV and Van Persie have made great combinations in the past, same for VDV and Sneijder.

[ulster21]

If you leave Van Nistelrooy on the bench then you are not a good coach in my opinion...... RVN could have been the starting forward for any country yet he was sitting & watching in their world cup defeat!!

[Langbaard]

If you leave Van Nistelrooy on the bench then you are not a good coach in my opinion...... RVN could have been the starting forward for any country yet he was sitting & watching in their world cup defeat!!

The whole country was upside down when V.Basten made that decision, especially a player like V.Nistelrooy could have decided a game with his skill and add to that his experience from the play against Portugal in Euro 2004.

He's a rookie coach, made some horrible decisions, but the positive side is he has authority to the players, they look up to him, unlike coaches as Advocaat.
But V.Basten should NEVER let a personal issue count more than football

I'm glad to see he is learning and improving his mistakes, this however should never be in cost of the Dutch NT which happened on the WC 2006.

But he has potential and has his 'own' opinion and vision on football, I just hope it works out well enough on time.. the possibility is there for sure.

[ulster21]

Just watch, Van Basten is going to get in an argument with Van Persie and sit him down...... then Van Basten is going to sub in Bergkamp..... Bergkamp jumping out of the stands tearing off his suit and standing their in his Orange Netherlands jersey.. This would be a great scene for Euro 2008... don't ya think

[Langbaard]

Just watch, Van Basten is going to get in an argument with Van Persie and sit him down...... then Van Basten is going to sub in Bergkamp..... Bergkamp jumping out of the stands tearing off his suit and standing their in his Orange Netherlands jersey.. This would be a great scene for Euro 2008... don't ya think

And scoring the winning goal in the final ofcourse

[newtonbrook]

WOW. good blog langbaard.
I would love to see RVN back with oranje. I hope you are right on this one.

On Jap Stam, I remember reading that MVB was at a social function a year ago in Italy that Jap Stam attended as well. MVB saw Jap but didnt give him the time of day. Jap remembered the slight whem MVB called on him months later to play for Oranje.
I noticed Dirk Kuyt not in your line-up. He has quite a motor.