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Ronnie Raygun
04-23-2002, 04:32 PM
April 22, 2002 --
THE Palestinian big lie against Israel keeps shifting as the truth emerges.

The first big lie was that the Israelis had perpetrated a massacre in Jenin, killing more than 500 people and then stashing them in mass graves. Then, as aid workers and journalists uncovered no evidence of mass graves, the lie was that the Israelis had secretly transported the dead bodies in refrigerated trucks.

Now it's that the Israelis have violated international law relating to war. Ac- cording to the BBC on Thursday, "International officials say some actions by [Israel's] troops, there and elsewhere, would appear to have breached the Fourth Geneva Convention relating to the protection of civilians in war or under occupation."

Why? Well, "the convention forbids violence being used against civilians, as well as inhumane or degrading treatment . . . It is claimed that civilians died in Jenin when their houses were demolished. The convention prohibits the destruction of property except where military operations make it absolutely necessary."

Lies. Lies lies lies. Damnable, outrageous, unseemly lies.

The simple truth is this: International law relating to the conduct of the incursion exculpates the Israelis and convicts the Palestinian Authority. Period.

The Israelis went into Jenin and made a systematic search for bomb laboratories and terror cells that had been hidden among civilians. The purpose was to destroy the laboratories and take prisoner or kill those who had been building the suicide bombs and directing the suicide attacks.

The Palestinian intifada describes itself as an armed struggle, an uprising. The word that describes the leaders and planners of such an armed struggle, in legal parlance, is "combatants."

And international law could not be any more plain. On June 8, 1977, the Fourth Geneva Convention was updated. The document is called "Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts."

Article 37 outlaws the use of civilian populations as a shield for military actions. It explicitly prohibits "the feigning of civilian, noncombatant status; and the feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict."

What the leaders of the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Hamas and Islamic Jihad do is hide among civilian populations to make it as difficult as possible for their enemies to attack them. The Geneva Convention denounces this as "perfidy."

Peter Bouckaert, a researcher at Human Rights Watch in New York who sneaked into Jenin on Thursday, told the Washington Post, "It's been incredibly difficult to tell the difference between fighters and civilians. If a combatant uses the civilian population as a shield in this way, the deaths incurred are the moral and legal responsibility of those who are hidings out in this grotesquely cowardly fashion.

Previously, Palestinians and their apologists had claimed the Israelis were violating the Fourth Geneva Convention by refusing to allow ambulances operated by the Red Crescent Society to move freely between Israeli hospitals and the West Bank towns in which the incursions were taking place.

Article 38 specifically addresses the ambulance issue: "It is prohibited to make improper use of the distinctive emblem of the red cross, red crescent or red lion and sun." And yet this is precisely what the Palestinians have done. The Israelis have stopped and searched ambulances emblazoned with the Red Crescent and found suicide belts hidden in them. One of these incidents, on March 27, was captured on videotape.

By using this internationally accepted symbol as a diversionary tactic - in essence turning ambulances into tanks - the Palestinians thus bear the moral and legal responsibility under international law for the Israeli refusal to allow the free conduct of Red Crescent vehicles.

The violators of international law - the criminals in this war - are the Palestinians who devised these shameful tactics.


E-mail: podhoretz@nypost.com

DognerDJ
04-23-2002, 05:26 PM
" Only in America "


Who is selling air-fighters and guns to Izrael army ?

Ronnie Raygun
04-23-2002, 05:53 PM
Not only do you have no point, you ignored the article.

Ivan
04-23-2002, 06:27 PM
Israel accused over Jenin assault

Red Cross and Amnesty say attack violated Geneva
accords

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem and Brian Whitaker
Tuesday April 23, 2002
The Guardian

The International Committee of the Red Cross yesterday
accused Israel of breaching the Geneva conventions by
recklessly endangering civilian lives and property during its
assault on the Jenin refugee camp, and by refusing the injured
access to medical personnel for six days.

Amnesty International concurred and called for an investigation
on the same basis as the war crimes inquiries in the Balkans.

The allegations came as the UN secretary general, Kofi Annan,
named a fact-finding team to look into the 10 days of fighting in
Jenin between the Israeli military and Palestinian militants. It will
be led by the former Finnish president, Martti Ahtisaari, who will
be joined by Sadako Ogata, former UN high commissioner for
refugees, and Cornelio Sommaruga, the ICRC's former head.

The Palestinians claim that the Israeli military massacred up to
500 people in the camp. Israel says about 40 people died, plus
23 of its troops.

The killing continued in other parts of the occupied territories
yesterday as Israeli soldiers shot dead five Palestinians - two in
Gaza and three in West Bank villages - and Palestinian militants
in Ramallah shot three alleged collaborators with Israel, killing
one man. The Israeli army said it arrested a 17-year-old
Palestinian woman in Gaza who was on her way to carry out a
suicide attack.

Last night a Palestinian militia leader and a second man were
killed in a helicopter attack in Hebron. The helicopter fired
missiles at a car, killing Marwan Zalloum, the commander of the
al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade militia in the city, residents said.
Palestinian security officials said he was on a list of 33 activists
the Israelis asked the Palestinians to arrest several months ago.

In Bethlehem, heavy gunfire erupted yesterday around the
Church of the Nativity, where Israeli troops have been besieging
Palestinian gunmen holed up inside in a 20-day standoff,
witnesses said. A Palestinian policeman inside the compound
told Reuters by telephone: "They're shooting around us from all
directions."

In Ramallah, the US undersecretary of state, William Burns, met
Yasser Arafat for two hours yesterday, but there was no sign of
an imminent end to the Israeli siege of the Palestinian leader's
offices.

Rene Kosirnik, the head of the ICRC delegation in the region,
said there was little doubt that Israel had breached interna tional
law at the Jenin camp.

"When we are confronted with the extent of destruction in an
area of civilian concentration, it is difficult to accept that
international humanitarian law has been fully respected," he
said. "What the law says is that you cannot attack or destroy
civilians or civilian property. If you are in a military operation you
have to take utmost care. If you suspect that your operation will
cause disproportionate damage to civilians or civilian property
then you have to stop the operation."

Mr Kosirnik said the Israelis also blocked emergency medical
aid to the camp for nearly a week after the fighting end ed, while
failing to provide care to the wounded.

"We were there for six days offering our services and we were
refused," he said. "As long as Jenin refugee camp was occupied
by the Israeli defence force, the first responsibility lies with the
IDF to save lives. It is the responsibility of the force concerned to
deliver services, to care for friend and foe. That is the rule."

He said the ICRC had two days ago asked the Israelis for
equipment to search for survivors and recover the dead, but was
awaiting a response. A team of British experts arrived on
Sunday with equipment able to detect life in the rubble.

An Israeli army spokesman, Lieutenant Colonel Olivier Rafowicz,
accused the ICRC of pro-Palestinian bias. "The camp became a
camp of terrorists," he said. "Civilians are killed when they are
used by terrorists as a human shield."

But Amnesty International in London backed the ICRC's
allegations.

"There is sufficient evidence to indicate that there have been
serious violations of international law," Dr Kathleen Cavanaugh,
a member of Amnesty's investigating team, said. "The question
of whether this constitutes war crimes ... is what we want to
ascertain."

Amnesty alleges that the Israelis gave civilians in the camp no
opportunity to flee, and prevented the severely injured from being
rescued.

Professor Derrick Pounder, forensic pathologist at Dundee
University, who visited Jenin hospital, near the camp, for
Amnesty, was struck by the absence of severely injured people.
Normally the severely injured would outnumber the dead by
three to one, he said.

"The question to the Israeli army is: where are the severely
injured?" he said. "No seriously injured persons arrived at the
hospital. We draw the conclusion that they were allowed to die
where they were."





Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002

Severus
04-23-2002, 10:27 PM
yeah whatever hillbilly.

keep in mind that israel prohibited anyone who was not an israeli soldier from entering jenin for almost a week. that would've given them plenty of time to get rid of the bodies.

Ronnie Raygun
04-24-2002, 11:29 AM
Only an idiot would rely on conspiracy theories.

Your last post clearly demonstrated that you are anti-semetic.

Also, your last post can be refuted by the story itself. Try "reading" next time.

DognerDJ
04-24-2002, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Severus
yeah whatever hillbilly.

keep in mind that israel prohibited anyone who was not an israeli soldier from entering jenin for almost a week. that would've given them plenty of time to get rid of the bodies.

:thumbsup:

p.s.: Ronnie Raygun , are u from Israel?

Ronnie Raygun
04-24-2002, 02:57 PM
What does it matter? What are you, a Nazi?

DognerDJ
04-24-2002, 03:53 PM
At this time , Yes !

Ronnie Raygun
04-24-2002, 03:54 PM
Then who cares what you think?

DognerDJ
04-24-2002, 04:04 PM
Same for you !

Ronnie Raygun
04-24-2002, 04:37 PM
So what do you think about getting your ass kicked in WWII?

Fantastic
04-24-2002, 09:07 PM
What do you mean by that????!!! Slovenia or better to say Yugoslavia was one of the winners in WWII!!!

neki
04-25-2002, 01:36 PM
ronnie,

youre saying that you're not nazi?

as i saw in your post in other threads, i saw that you think that americans are superior rase. Its the same thing what germans(with Hitler on top) were thinking back then.

Severus
04-28-2002, 12:29 AM
yeah sure, conspiracy theory. i even saw it on your own media, CNN reporters arguing with israeli soldiers who would not let them into jenin to observe. that's a fact. how this demonstrates i am anti-semitic is beyond me.

you just can't handle being smoked in an arguement so you have to bring in racism in a pathetic attempt to obscure your immaturity and lack of an arguement.

Ronnie Raygun
04-30-2002, 03:22 PM
Neki, American is not a race.

Germany is not a race.

Dogner said he was a Nazi.

Nazi's got their ass kicked in WWII.

Get it?

"hillbilly" - Serevus

Talk about lack of argument.

Severus
04-30-2002, 04:01 PM
now this filth above clearly exhibits that you have an arguement let me tell you.

Ronnie Raygun
04-30-2002, 04:39 PM
I had to break it down so you simpletons could understand.

Porca Troia
04-30-2002, 08:55 PM
i found no discussion or argument...it seemed like who has the longest article on hand. exactly what was either one of your points. and i mean yours not the reporters.

001
05-10-2002, 02:34 PM
Lies whatever....there is propaganda everywhere.
It is very hard to know the truth when the events are filtered through biased television institutions.

p.s Severus don't seem like a nazi to me

001
05-18-2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
April 22, 2002 --
THE Palestinian big lie against Israel keeps shifting as the truth emerges.

The first big lie was that the Israelis had perpetrated a massacre in Jenin, killing more than 500 people and then stashing them in mass graves. Then, as aid workers and journalists uncovered no evidence of mass graves, the lie was that the Israelis had secretly transported the dead bodies in refrigerated trucks.

Now it's that the Israelis have violated international law relating to war. Ac- cording to the BBC on Thursday, "International officials say some actions by [Israel's] troops, there and elsewhere, would appear to have breached the Fourth Geneva Convention relating to the protection of civilians in war or under occupation."

Why? Well, "the convention forbids violence being used against civilians, as well as inhumane or degrading treatment . . . It is claimed that civilians died in Jenin when their houses were demolished. The convention prohibits the destruction of property except where military operations make it absolutely necessary."

Lies. Lies lies lies. Damnable, outrageous, unseemly lies.

The simple truth is this: International law relating to the conduct of the incursion exculpates the Israelis and convicts the Palestinian Authority. Period.

The Israelis went into Jenin and made a systematic search for bomb laboratories and terror cells that had been hidden among civilians. The purpose was to destroy the laboratories and take prisoner or kill those who had been building the suicide bombs and directing the suicide attacks.

The Palestinian intifada describes itself as an armed struggle, an uprising. The word that describes the leaders and planners of such an armed struggle, in legal parlance, is "combatants."

And international law could not be any more plain. On June 8, 1977, the Fourth Geneva Convention was updated. The document is called "Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts."

Article 37 outlaws the use of civilian populations as a shield for military actions. It explicitly prohibits "the feigning of civilian, noncombatant status; and the feigning of protected status by the use of signs, emblems or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict."

What the leaders of the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Hamas and Islamic Jihad do is hide among civilian populations to make it as difficult as possible for their enemies to attack them. The Geneva Convention denounces this as "perfidy."

Peter Bouckaert, a researcher at Human Rights Watch in New York who sneaked into Jenin on Thursday, told the Washington Post, "It's been incredibly difficult to tell the difference between fighters and civilians. If a combatant uses the civilian population as a shield in this way, the deaths incurred are the moral and legal responsibility of those who are hidings out in this grotesquely cowardly fashion.

Previously, Palestinians and their apologists had claimed the Israelis were violating the Fourth Geneva Convention by refusing to allow ambulances operated by the Red Crescent Society to move freely between Israeli hospitals and the West Bank towns in which the incursions were taking place.

Article 38 specifically addresses the ambulance issue: "It is prohibited to make improper use of the distinctive emblem of the red cross, red crescent or red lion and sun." And yet this is precisely what the Palestinians have done. The Israelis have stopped and searched ambulances emblazoned with the Red Crescent and found suicide belts hidden in them. One of these incidents, on March 27, was captured on videotape.

By using this internationally accepted symbol as a diversionary tactic - in essence turning ambulances into tanks - the Palestinians thus bear the moral and legal responsibility under international law for the Israeli refusal to allow the free conduct of Red Crescent vehicles.

The violators of international law - the criminals in this war - are the Palestinians who devised these shameful tactics.


E-mail: podhoretz@nypost.com


The same as the biggest lie in history, that is the Holocaust.






















do you see what i mean....here i am talking a load of crap, like you were talking a load of crap.


Conclusion....crap breeds crap.