~ religion ties with corruption ~

[pLatinum_boY]

voice out your opinions people....

i want to know what you guys think about religion and whether you think that it is a part of the corruption that happens in todays world? if so...how big a scale? tell me about your thoughts people and hopefully we can get to know more about yourselves...

im a catholic...but...to me...i feel it is pretty corrupt how babies get baptised at such a young age when they dont have the freedom of choice to believe in at that age...and to me thats what religion is about... thats just f*ckin pathetic...
so really it depends on your parents and not on their children what so ever... they rule their lives and make their decisions which in 10 years time they might have not wanted it to happen...
thats the only f*cked up think i dont agree with in the catholic society ...
kids get 'forced' into religion when their conscience isn't developed enough to think for themselves............ corrupt... :eek:

annnnnnnywayz enuf bout me... tel me wat u guyz think...:D

[Zek]

I dont believe that religion is something useful these days. It's the tool to manipulate people.
I heard a phrase "religion is an opium (drugs) for the nation" I guess that's right.
I propose to stop believing or at least practicing any given sunday and donation 10% of the income to church it's useless to my mind.

[ItalianBoy]

Zek, I agree 100%. There has been more wars about religion then anything else! Still now in 2002, people fight cuz of Religions. Like The Comunist said: Religion is poison! And they were right about it!
I think that religion was just a way to explain things long time ago and for the pope and others to manipulate. Thats why HEnry the 8th made himself pope of ENg. To have the power. Cuz even if the pope didnt rule ENG, he still had their ignorant minds in control. I think that when people will stop bealiving this crap of religion, the world will be a better place and we will advance in many ways.

[Zek]

agree italianboy ;)
and about wars everyone uses religion as a cover even crusaders had nothing to do with religion basically cauz they fighted the christian Byzantium empire, they're raping and mass murdering people, stealing - real christians should not do that as far as I know (maybe I am wrong since I am not a christian I dont know that much about it)

[pLatinum_boY]

Originally posted by ItalianBoy
I think that religion was just a way to explain things long time ago and for the pope and others to manipulate. Thats why HEnry the 8th made himself pope of ENg. To have the power. Cuz even if the pope didnt rule ENG, he still had their ignorant minds in control. I think that when people will stop bealiving this crap of religion, the world will be a better place and we will advance in many ways.

fair enough...i guess im not that much against relegion bout you made valid points.
however, i dont think religion is a thing FOR people to manipulate like you mentioned the pope and Henry VIII...but more or less, they make the CHOICE to act and take control of the flock.
religion doesn't really set out clear choices for people to make. which is kind of stink because peoples lives are set out ahead of them already (kind of like what i mentioned in the first post).

and a good thing you mentioned the pope...
to me, the vatican remains one of the most corrupt organisations in the world....surely they can spend their money on better things rather than making the damn place look better, embedded in gold...:rolleyes: ... they took it too far... :(

[OAnimal]

I totally agree with all the posts in this thread. However, I think that we should not aim to remove religion from the world. The main point should be, IMHO, that everyone is allowed to believe what he/she wants to believe, but no one should force the others to believe the same as he/she does. I mean, everyone should have a freedom of choice, be it religion or anything else...

[Ronnie Raygun]

Religion is man made.....GOD isn't.

Man have done all sorts of evil things in the name of religion, that doesn't mean that if you believe in GOD or go to church that you are a bad person. It means that a select few have made the masses of honest GOD loving people look bad.

[Zek]

we should not try to limit people in their believes and etc.

but there's an interesting relation: if you have a good lifestyle and you're educated person you don't believe in god as much as those who have nothing by all means. Look palestinians are pretty religious because it's in their blood they're arabs and because this is their only hope for good since all other hopes died long ago. Just bring more education and better life, equal opportunities for everyone and then people would be less fundamentalistic and much happier :).
this was a conclusion I had doing a conflict modelling project on middle east last year.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Education has nothing to do with one's relationship with hi/her creator.

[Severus]

well, when i saw the WTC go down in the name of religion, it certainly didn't tickle my fancy. but although people will say religions plague the world and that religion is for the weak, there is still nothing wrong with believing in something.

its just when religion gets taken out of context by islamic fundamentalists, protestants, catholics etc--- it makes me wonder if we'd be better off without it. as you can see, i have a love-hate relationship with religion. however, i still believe.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Like I said before.....

Religion is man made. GOD has nothing to do with man's traditions.

[Severus]

agreed.

btw, i'm loving the nick ronald.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Thanks bro.

btw. did you guys have to beat us so bad. Where is the sportsmanship? HAHA!

[ItalianBoy]

I disagree. First of all I think that Religion is important. many people dont have the intellngence and knoledge to study and try to really get the reaosn why we here etc. So Religion should work as a "pill" to calm people down. Kinda like Rules or laws. And Ronnie,

Education has nothing to do with one's relationship with hi/her creator


You talk form your ignorante ass right?
Please! There is no god. I dont think we should have this discussion. We will just fight.
Everyone has theyr opinion, and no matter what, people idea are hard to change.
Personally I htink that Religion is a joke.

[OAnimal]

There's no need to fight. Whether there is God or not, it is beyond our knowledge and perception. We will never know that, since there can be no proof about that. Personally I don't really care. If one believes there is God, let him believe it. I see nothing wrong with that, if everybody has a right to choose, what he/she will believe...

[ItalianBoy]

That would "right" on the part where you say that people shouldt argue but you see, most of the times, people that do belive tend to treat the ones that dont belive like idiots, when to me is the opposite. Now if you want to belive fine. But as long as you keep it for yourself.

[pLatinum_boY]

Originally posted by ItalianBoy
I disagree. First of all I think that Religion is important. many people dont have the intellngence and knoledge to study and try to really get the reaosn why we here etc. So Religion should work as a "pill" to calm people down. Kinda like Rules or laws. And Ronnie,

Education has nothing to do with one's relationship with hi/her creator


You talk form your ignorante ass right?
Please! There is no god. I dont think we should have this discussion. We will just fight.
Everyone has theyr opinion, and no matter what, people idea are hard to change.
Personally I htink that Religion is a joke.

yeah ok...you think that religion is a joke...and he believes thay education has nothing to do with ones relationship btwn his or her creator...
lets just leave it at that...you are causing a fight by bursting out like that.
and what he said i actually believe.....
the level of ones education shouldn't hinder such relationships.
:)

[ItalianBoy]

Well sorry but that dosent make any sense. I mean the reason why there is Science is cuz of the developing of culture. Galileo was more informed and thats why he was right.
And thats why Religion was also created to control, I mean Galileo and Giordano Bruno got burned alive cuz they were saying true stuff!
Religion= mystical god stuff.
Science= Trieng to see what really happen.
You see, Religion, and all types, just say there is a creator and thats it. I mean they dont give a fukk about Fisic laws etc.
They dont know any biology Fisics etc, and they want to make a point.
I mean if you are an educated person, you could never belive truly in a higher power. Maybe you do cuz you are afraid of death, or cuz you got some twisted logic.
I mean Religon is the first thing that humans thought for an explanation, Where they cultured? no!
Dosent make sense does it!
And plus, if you talk about Religion you have to talk about GOD. Thats all Religion equals god, simple as that.
Plus, a big difference I found in religious people is that they are very close minded. I mean I can look at things and then decide if somethign is right or wrong, and that is given from my freedom of mind, whcih is usually assimilated with going against everything just for the heck of it. To me its not like that. I dont belive in god cuz it makes no sense whats so ever. And my point being, I can look at theoris and then decide, religion people wont do that. Its very hard to find a religious person just giving it all up.
Anyway, I just hope this Muslims dudes calm down. See what Religion does!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :)

[pLatinum_boY]

where did science come from?
wo wo wo wo ....
i'm just saying that for one to believe in his or her own god...they dont need to have supreme intellingence. :)

[Ronnie Raygun]

Science is a religion for most people.

Look at evolution. You must have "faith" to believe in evolution since it's never been proven.

[Ronnie Raygun]

.......and I'll respond to Italianboy when I have more time.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Let's look at these exact quotes from Italianboy.....

"First of all I think that Religion is important."
"Personally I htink religion is a joke."

?????

"There is no GOD"

I say, where is the proof? Do you know something that the rest of us don't?




First I say "Education has nothing to do with one's relationship with hi/her creator."

Then you say "you talk from you ignorante ass right?"

Then soon after .... "people that do belive tend to treat those that don't belive like idiots."

That's exactly what you attempted to do to me but you don't know how to spell the word "BELIEVE" so it sort of spoiled your point.





"Now if you want to believe fine. But as long as you keep it for yourself." - Italianboy

Well, here in the United States WE believe in FREEDOM of speech and WE believe that you are FREE to practice any religion you want. If you can't grasp those concepts, maybe you need to go back where you came from. We don't like communists in our country.





"Galileo was more informed and that's why he was right."

Have you ever heard of the "Piltdown Man"? Scientists can have agendas just like any other man. Putting you faith in science means that science is your religion.

"Religion=Mystical god Stuff"
"Science=Treing to see what really happen."

Why haven't scientists ever been able to find a contradiction in the Bible? Because there isn't one.




"I mean if you are an educated person, you could never belive (BELIEVE) in a higher power."

Einstein believed in GOD. Now what do you have to say?




"Religion equals GOD"

Nope, man invented religion. GOD invented man.




"Plus, a big diference I found in religious people is that they are very close minded."

That's funny, you seem close minded and you are not religious. It takes a very open mind to believe in an all powerful GOD.





"It's very hard finding a religious person giving it all up."

That's a two way street. That's human nature.




"Anyway, I just hope this muslim dudes calm down. See what religion does?"

I agree.

[ItalianBoy]

Ronni I will answer you first since it shows that you are the one that just cant grasp simple stuff. That whole post was crap. If I would have put them into that order you would have been right. Still, I didnt. I had reasons for what I said.
Religion is important, cuz not everyone has wheather the courage or the wanting or whatever to try to find other solutions eetc. Religion IS for ignorant people, At least most of them. Its very hard to find someone that knows about biology fisics etc that dosent have some what of "hey this dosent make sense". So please.
Of course I dont have the proof that there is no god, like you dont have any that there is, still there are studies and opinions and somethign called logic, something that is abstract that cant be seen but that is true. If you logic enough you'll see what I mean. And WHAT! Why haven't scientists ever been able to find a contradiction in the Bible? Because there isn't one.


HAHAHAAH it shows that you are stupid!
What about the apple! So god knows present past and future, but tells Adam and Even NOT to get the apple, I mean if he already knows everything, why the fukk does he tell them not to? Please! Religion Is ALL A CONTRADICTION! and you saying this it shows what type of person you are and how smart you are.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
And about the freedom of speech yes I am aware of that even without you trying to be funny. There is only one thing, Religion closes people! If you cant get that, I wont try to bother to explain.
Einstein believed in GOD. Now what do you have to say?

Einstein was a matematician, he said ironically : I want to know what are god's thoughts, the rest are details". And plus he was a jew BIG influnce. VEry twisted I know but hey, it hapens.
Nope, man invented religion. GOD invented man.
SO let me get this, If all religions talk about god then I mean how do we know about a god but religioon is wrong? So you are saying that the religions are crap, but yet there is a god, a higher beaing etc. Well I dont know about you but it was pretty simple that all religions were crap in the first place and 2 I mean dont you ask yourself other questions? I mean why is he/she, there etc?
I mean there are so many questions that what you are saying dont make sense. That's funny, you seem close minded and you are not religious. It takes a very open mind to believe in an all powerful GOD.
I knew you where going to say that. Thanks
Well sorry to prove you qrong again, but to belive in god is the easiest thing in the world.
There is somethign to be said. I can even one day belive in "god" but until now ther are NO proofs and my logic still works. So please.

I will stop my shit here, since its pretty useless to explain to people like Ronni etc.
Plati, who inveted Science? man of course, still Science dosetn say this and thats it, scince tries to connect things that happen and try to come on with the truth.

In the end, I personally think that there is no god. Religion is doing a lot of crap! To me there is no god. It makes no sense and many htigns I ask my self about god odnt make sense. Religion is all a contadiction. I mean how can the guy say to stop the sun?
Or how can the virgin mary be a virgin but have a kid? PlEASE!
Anyway since I know about freedom! Ronni you can vomit your cra if you want.
And about the offending part, you are not taking this for serisou are you? I mean I think that if you have a point, whatever point, you can explain it to me talking in rel life then a board.

[ItalianBoy]

After all that stuff I wrote. Which is probably very confusing and dosent say what I think exactly, but just to answer a little Ronni.
All I have to say is that another thing that I noticed is that now, there are people like Ronni that make a distinctions.
GOD Vs. Religion.
First of all about being open minded, I told you that I have no problem in beliving in a creator. But to me for now it dosnt make much sense, and the proofs are slim. This said. I wanted to know what exactly you guys think, other then trying to prove another person wrong by coping and pasting things he said etc.
I said that personally there is no god and that religioon was yes created for many reasons.
Also, I dont think that any of us can know or has enough knowledge to speak about this. I dont think that any of us is a fisic or medic etc. So when we all know about those stuff, we can chat about it. For now we can guess and for some of use logic. Other then that I dont think this thread is doign any good,. Its just making me and ronni look like we want to finght over somehtign never seen.
I will come back with more.

[Ronnie Raygun]

I'm not fighting.

What is a "fisic"?

Seriously.

[ItalianBoy]

Phisics, I do you spell it in English. Like Nuclear phisics?
Sorry I go fast and ususally dont re read my post. Thats why sometimes I get people confused. I will try to re read the posts.

[pLatinum_boY]

Originally posted by ItalianBoy
That whole post was crap..

dude how can you say that...?!
that post he done was 'carve up' material.

[ItalianBoy]

See plati he got some parts and put somethign opposite later. But after each one of them there was a meaning tihng.
So it was crap.

[ItalianBoy]

Look what religion does!
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Esteri/2002/02_Febbraio/27/hinduscontri.shtml

30 people dead after some Muslims got into a fight!
Now thats enough! See why religion is poison! Freedom of speech yes but when its get like this its time to stop it!
:mad:

[Komik 9]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
Religion is man made.....GOD isn't.

OK, so tell me, what is GOD? Does GOD exist? What actually exists? Who created GOD?

Also, you say that one should prove that there is no GOD if one believes that he doesn't exist, but it's harder to prove that he actually does exist.

Another thing is that there is more proof about evolution than you apparently know of, and science has so much more proof than religion for the evolution and so on.

[Komik 9]

Originally posted by OAnimal
The main point should be, IMHO, that everyone is allowed to believe what he/she wants to believe, but no one should force the others to believe the same as he/she does. I mean, everyone should have a freedom of choice, be it religion or anything else...

I like your post, well said. ;)

[OAnimal]

Thanks. :thumbsup:

[ItalianBoy]

Well said Komik and OAnimal, still thats exactly what does not happen with religion. I mean look at the still current wars, they are all about religion. About GOD, exactly, who created god? Religion did! People created religion with a god. God is this higher power that no one can see. I mean if its so true, why cant we even see him. I liked your post Komik. :thumbsup:

[Ronnie Raygun]

Italianboy, do you believe that "wind" exists?

Komick, I don't have all the answers....nobody does....but I will answer you the best I can.

"What is GOD?"

I believe that GOD is an all powerful being that created the universe and everything else.

"What acually exists?"

You'll have to further explain that question.

"Who created GOD?"

I believe that GOD has always been and has no creator.

I also believe that there is more proof to support GOD that to disprove GOD.

What proof is there to support evolution? A missing link has never been discovered. All sorts of fraud has been discovered in the scientific community when it comes to this subject.


....and OAnimal, nice quote. That's what America is al about.

[ItalianBoy]

First of all Ronni I will say that from this moment on I will try to be more polite and I hope you can do the same even if you dont agree with me.
Also, Sorry but I think you are wrong. More to support GOD?
That is ridicoules.
God was created by Religion, which like you say, was created by Man. It was the easiest Explanation from humans living in caves and hunting to survive. Its like when you are a little kid, you explan yourself things in the easiest to then GROW UP and see that its not like that. Only thing with GOD is that he/she cant be proven at all. Science and the Evelution theory is not 100% proven. But it makes way more sense then an invisible man living in the sky that created us for some reason no one knows. I say we ALL do more scientific reaserch. And also, I heard that "Can you see wind?" stuff, and sorry but wind is made of Oxygen and you can feel it Fisically, while God, you cant. So I say you get a better excuse for next time.
To me you can believe whatever makes you happy. Personally I dont belive there is a god. And trust me, its way harder to NOT belive then to just say " hey what the heck, someone created us" to then specifically analyze what makes sense and what does not. Thats all I have to say.
As long as you are happy, I say thats the most important thing.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Show me where evolution is 100% proven.

You can feel the effects of GOD. I have.

I think it is easier to say that we came from a puddle of mud than an all powerful GOD.

I don't think happiness is the most important thing.

[ItalianBoy]

So what is the most important thing to you? Of course happines to me is one out of many but for sure an imporatant one. Also, see that is the whole point I was trying to make. Science dosent say that Evolution is 100% sure, I think I said that.
Also, Sorry to say this but you are "weird", I mean you are just changing aroujnd all I say. Easier to belive we come form a puddle of mud? And mud? Anyway, Its easier to just "blame" it all of one person that is invisible that else. Thats all I have to say.

[pLatinum_boY]

we are all different and we can all feel GOD in our own ways.
for ***ks sake i feel god spritually emotionally annnnd physically.
i even eat god everytime i go to church.
and unless i didn't have knowledge on christian life and theological / philosophical issues and history, it would be hard for me to say that there is more evidence in why god doesn't exist in contrast to why he doesn't. and NO that is NOT ridiculous.

i dont know about any others, but happiness is certainly not the reason why i was born into this planet, i dont care what my parents or whoever the f*ck have to say... i'd like to know that i am here to live my life to its potential...to go through every emotional feeling i possibly can...through love , lust, and misery...
to travel the world and explore and learn as much as we possibly can ... life is not all about getting a PHD, having your own huge house with 2.2 kids a ferrari and a dog named 'spot' ...

^^^that is what i think^^^ , to the rest: think what you want to think! believe what you wanna believe! and live it up!!!

[Ronnie Raygun]

Italianboy, please explain you example of the contradiction in the Bible.

[ItalianBoy]

Ok, what do you have to say to the guy( forgot his name) that said STOP to the sun! and In the bible it says it happen! Or what about the fact that they belived that the World was in the center of the earth? Or what about the no knowledge of gravity? Or what about Adam and eve? God knows the future past and present but says" hey, I want to see if they take the apple". Please!
There are millions!
And also, why is it that the creation of the world its like 1 page!
I mean, like Bill Mayer says, If you swap the bible into the stories for kids I mean what would be the difference! Its just a big novel that makes you feel good about yourself.
Plus Happiness dosent mean money or Ferrari etc, you can be a farmer in Ohio and belive in God and go to church every sunday, but if thats what makes you happy, thats what counts!
If you want to travel etc, you wanna be sad!?
Please, do some thinking before posting.
And one more thing, religion was made to govern people, thats why GOD, cant be seen or anything!
I mean who is more powerful then him!
So the church, head of religion, decided hey,
1) This is a good explanation, for now.
2) the people cant say no otherwise we burn them alive even if right.
3) Look at the money we got and still get!
I mean The pope has the audacity to go to Senegal, say that peace is good and god bless you. WOW!
BIG HELP!
How about then instead of living in the GOLD! you stop asking for the "otto per mille", thats the money that the church asks to the people to help others, and give some of your money!
Please! Religion is the most corrupted, contradicting thing in the world.
Now there are people that say that GOD is not religon. GOD IS! religion! without religion he/she wouldt exist!
The reason why you say that is cuz now, religion and the church dont have much power! Thats why. I say you all do some more reaserch, and then after that, you express what you feel. Meanwhile, if logic is not your gift, I say you stay quite. Many arguments start from people that want to say something that dosent make sense.
Plus, people see GOD not like a man or woman but like a force or something, that makes way more sense then an invisible man. Its a big complex argument that cant be all explained in one post, or for the matter in a board.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Italianboy, I want you to give me one example. Tell me exactly where the Bible contradicts itself and why. You haven't and you won't.

Just ONE example as in depth as you can. Lay it out. Prove me wrong. ONE thing. Please. Seriously.

GOD is not religion. Proof?

GOD-The supreme or ultimate reality.

Religion-The service and worship of GOD.

Two totally seperate things.

I too believe religion is bad, I don't even like the pope. The pope isn't looked upon by GOD anymore than you, me or any of the rest of us.


Please state your case and give me just ONE example where the Bible contradicts itself.


I'll be back this Tue.

[ItalianBoy]

Ok, I will bring you some. And also, Religon and god are the same. you always have to be under someone you never saw. But I will be back. also, I like the idea of the GOD not as the man or Woman and creator but as like a force. Now thats more likely. Still I have to do some reaserch.
I'll be back!
:)

[pLatinum_boY]

Originally posted by ItalianBoy

Plus Happiness dosent mean money or Ferrari etc, you can be a farmer in Ohio and belive in God and go to church every sunday, but if thats what makes you happy, thats what counts!
If you want to travel etc, you wanna be sad!?
Please, do some thinking before posting.
.

what on earth are you getting at?! :mad:
i didn't say that ferrari's and lots of money etc is happiness.
i pointed out that happiness can be what you want it to be, and i said what 'I' MYSELF think hapiness is for 'ME'.
notice the personal pronouns used were 'I' , not 'you' :D :rolleyes:
think whatever the f*ck you want to think of happiness . :)
...so why dont you think harder next time before you post :)

[ItalianBoy]

Look plati, you said i dont know about any others, but happiness is certainly not the reason why i was born into this planet, i dont care what my parents or whoever the f*ck have to say... i'd like to know that i am here to live my life to its potential...to go through every emotional feeling i possibly can...through love , lust, and misery...
Thats what you said. Any normal ENG knowing person would get what I did. Please, dont steel my words.

[pLatinum_boY]

' STEAL ' your words ? :D
seriously dude......that last post you did didn't make sense to me at all....what do you mean 'get what i did' :confused: ???
read my posts man...
and thennnnnn post what you've gotta say when you understand properly :cool: :)

[Borba]

The point is this. If god really does exist then we are all rooted because we are ALL going to hell.

[ItalianBoy]

This guy from India told me that some year ago some of his frined relatives were burned alive by some muslims in India. When I heard that I felt like beating the crap out of all of them fukks! Just to let you know that this is no CNN or Al Jazeera.

[pLatinum_boY]

now THAT i do agree on !!!! :D
***k i'd stalk their asses down and bury THEM alive! ...
.......(well maybe not bury...)...but smash them anyway. :)
cos dat shit is disturbing mannn :(

[ItalianBoy]

Also, many religions cut the clit of little girls so that they woudlt feel any pleasure. Religion shoud be stopped. Religion is oppressing!

[Ronnie Raygun]

I agree. Just be glad that GOD isn't.

Italianboy, where is the contradiction?

I'll be back next Monday.

[ItalianBoy]

I will try to find you a contradiction. Dont worry I will!

[Ronnie Raygun]

Well????

[ItalianBoy]

Ronnie, I am writing them all down. And pls! The bible has to som uch unlogic in it! Thats kind of a contradiction. But I will be back.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Don't write them all down.

Just give me ONE!

[Ronnie Raygun]

Just one.

[Severus]

so i take it i am not the only person here who thinks its pointless arguing with italianBOY the cretin ?

[Ronnie Raygun]

This isn't an arguement.

Just one.