CIA authorized to de-stabilize baghdad gov't ...

[Severus]

after bush includes iran, one of saddam's greatest enemies and neighbour in the "axis".

now, i am no political strategist, and although bush's determination to rid the world of that iraqi scumbag hussein is admirable, why would he insult (justified) possibly our greatest ally in defeating saddam, iran ? a little ill-timed wouldn't you say.

what do you think troia ?

[ItalianBoy]

Do you mean why are we going against Iran too?

[Porca Troia]

the us gov't has committed many blunders in the past (assisting bin laden in afghanistan against the soviets and leaving him an arsenal and expertise to haunt us back, etc...). iran although is an enemy of iraq, remains an enemy of the us, too. iran is doing it's best to destabilize the present afghan govt. since iraq invaded iran, the whole idea was to have a regional arab superpower. iran and iraq have been fighting for this position for decades. we don't need iran's help in bringing down iraq. nevertheless, i don't believe the us needs, at this time, to go to war with iraq or iran. we need to concentrate on eliminating the terrorist cells living in the us, especially here in florida (florida has gotten no breaks recently, from the elections, to the shark attacks, the first anthrax episode, the terrorist cell based in coral springs and deerfield, the shoebomber flight was from paris to miami, etc... wtf is up with that?!?!!!).

[Severus]

concentrating on national security is by far the most important issue. i can't stress its importance enough. but i don't think one can completely ignore the problems overseas because that is the root of the cancer here in the freeworld with those cowardly cells.

and this leads me to my only disagreement with your submission. we must declare war on saddam hussein above all else because that anti-christ will never rest in peace until he damages the US significantly atleast ! just look at the way he toys with everyone. he agrees to allow the inspectors, but once they get close to discovering more of his nuclear arsenal --- he kicks them out and allows them to return maybe a month later after he stashed la roba somewhere else. now he's willing to allow them back in after a few years and the sad thing is people will be satisfied with that. thank god il GRANDE republicano bush won't be and "make no mistake about it".

nevermind what the europeans and asians think because when hussein attacks it'll be against the US and nobody else. that's why you can't expect to rely on the allies because iraq doesn't concern them.

now i'm off to watch the azzurri kick some yankee butt !

[Zek]

Originally posted by Porca Troia
since iraq invaded iran, the whole idea was to have a regional arab superpower. iran and iraq have been fighting for this position for decades.

here we go speaking on quite nice english you're talking bullshit.
Iran is not an arabic country, so they cannot fight for the domination in arabic world since they're not arabs. Iraq never invaded Iran in the recent history, they only managed to get small territories and on the long run they would probably lose them too.

What's right is that Iraq along with Egypt has potential for domination in arab world. Iran on the opposite does not have good relationship with most of the arab countries due to their support of terrorism in arabic countries and also religios beliefs which're different from arabic ones by far. Iran is looking for the Islamic domination, a position which's quite suitable for Iran expecting support from persian nations like tadjiks, turkic countries and arabic world, they can get votes from all three major parts of islam world but they can dominate only their own persian politics.

In addition, to raise your education on this issue: Iran and the Turkic world are enemies forever at least for the last 1500 years and for the coming 300 years too.l The major problem is that Iran is an empire country for the last 3 thousand (yes 3000) years and the major threat for the last 1500 years is coming from turkish nations. So that Iran tries to do everything in order not to let turkish nations to unify in a solid confederation (take a map and have a look what will happen if confederation of Turkey, Azerbaijan, kazakhstan, uzbekistan, turkmenistan and kirgizistan would be created).

Situation Iran and arabic world is less dramatic. Difference of religios beliefs "sunny and shiits" does not allow Iran to influence arabic world. however, iran supports couple of freedom movements in Palestine and those were organizations which disrupted peace talks in 90's with terroristic attacks. Iraq vs. Iran relationship we all know about, Iran vs. Arabic oil countries nothing special, they don't like Iran cause Iran their major competitor on the oil and gas market.

OK, I guess that's enough for today from me. I want extra karma instead for the lecture :D
apart from jokes, Porca it's getting annoying when you talk about things you don't know well from an expert position using nice language like a "good politician" (compliment). I don't know that much on this issue as well but geopolitics of the region were in my interests several years ago, I was supporting the "Grey Wolves" TurkiC nationalistic party with an idea of Great TURAN. I guess people the regions close to Turkey (Greece or Balkans) know what party I am talking about.
So next time please either don't talk what you don't know or just don't imply on knowing everything while knowing almost nothing.

[Porca Troia]

i will give you that my choice of words was not optimal. nevertheless, the gist of what i was saying in a general sense is accurate. ever since saddam's rise in 1980? he has tried to gain control of the arab world (and by that i mean the islam world). his biggest threat and closest enemy at the time was iran and the ayatolah. he did attempt to invade iran and actually managed to get big chunks of territory thanks to american aid, since at the time iran had just held hostage about 40 americans. yes, the iranians are not arabs, but they were a very fundamentalist islamic nation. saddam didn't want any competition in this field.
now, i never claim to know everything but i sincerely appreciate everybody's effort to make me out to be that way. i voice my opinions based on what i have learnt. that you take one sentence of my whole statement and use it to show that you know more about this than me shows how petty you are.

[Ivan]

Originally posted by Porca Troia
i voice my opinions based on what i have learnt.

Which obviously isn't much! :thumbsup: :D

[Porca Troia]

hey coward. typical of you. start a discussion, when cornered, evade and pretend as if nothing happened. then comeback with retorts as that. you are fooling no one on this board.

[Ivan]

truth hurts

sorry, but jebigaaa....

[Porca Troia]

whatever that means. you do not have to post non sequiturs just to prove something. you are a coward and you will remain as such until i'm on this board.

[Zek]

that sentence is one of the cores of your statement.
Iran and USA think why they're enemies? any really good reasons for that? maybe they'ren't enemies?
CHEERS anyway
PS: I just mentioned that don't talk so sure, cause what you know is always a relative knowledge and the fact you have never been to the region and probably never read any book (not news) about the region you're talking leads to such replies like the one of mine.

[Porca Troia]

maybe you should concentrate on learning how to write so people can understand what you say. iran and us are not enemies? is that what you are claiming? if that is what you are claiming i refuse to dialogue with you any further as you are definitely not making sense.

[Zek]

hmmm :D
yeah Iran and Uncle Sam are not that crazy enemies cause there are no basic reasons for being an enemies with Iran nowadays.
good refusal I liked that, should I feel I am an idiot :confused:

:D :p :D

[Borba]

HEHE
hussein favourite team is crvena zvezda!

[Severus]

zek are you claiming the US and iran are not enemies ? because you seem to be running around in circles here.

[Zek]

yeps Sev I am claiming that US and Iran are not that deadly enemies as they seem to.
I know I sound controversial to many of you, but US and Iran relations are getting a bit warmer recently and beyond all why they should be enemies? US will never fight with Iran and vice versa, on the other hand economically both of them will only benefit from each other.

[Severus]

no i don't think its as bad as before either, but bush doesn't include them in the "axis of evil" if they were on his good side. remember, they've been harbouring terrorist organizations like hizbollah for decades. not to mention they were busted distributing arms to the PLO and they are not a democracy. relations must be really sour for bush and the administration to classify the government with the n.koreans and saddam above else. well that's just my opinion anyway.

[ItalianBoy]

Wasent there a cargo with 50 tons of weapons with a iran flag going to Palestina like 2 motnghs ago? Or was it another country?

[Zek]

Iran is the evil of the middle east!
everybody knows they're supporting terrorism everywhere in the islamic world, but nobody does anything. Even palestinians everytime they had peace agreements with israel in 90's there always were pro-iranic terrorists destroying everything.
Iran is huge and strong country with a long history of being empire, and they're supported by France and Russia now.

[KONY]

so wat r u sayin? u say 1 thing b4 n something difrent now

[Severus]

get used to it. he contradicts himself everytime he speaks.

[Zek]

how am I contradicting myself?
anyway you know better than me :D

[KONY]

1st u say this: yeps Sev I am claiming that US and Iran are not that deadly enemies as they seem to.
then u say this: Iran is the evil of the middle east!
everybody knows they're supporting terrorism everywhere in the islamic world
lucy u hav som splaining to do!!!

[Ronnie Raygun]

We need to destroy every palace.

[ItalianBoy]

Now thats somethign smart! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Ronnie Raygun]

"somethign"

Sorry, I don't speak your language.

[ItalianBoy]

We can see that this Ronnie guy thinks he is so cool, and pretty dumb too. I mean someone that dosent get something for a gn come on! how dumber can you get?
:rolleyes:

[Ronnie Raygun]

I don't know, "how dumber" can I get?

[ItalianBoy]

You are the dumb one! you tell me!
just so you know, here no one likes to fight, you are still in time to change your image. I say you do it if you want to be accepted here!

[Ronnie Raygun]

I don't care about image.....and the only person I don't like is you so stop trying to act like you speak for everyone here. You don't.

[ItalianBoy]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
I don't care about image.....and the only person I don't like is you so stop trying to act like you speak for everyone here. You don't.


You odnt care about image? Actually acording to Goffman, a famous Sociologist you probably dont know given you sound very ignorant, he says that we all try to potry an image and give an impression. So please! dont care?
And plus, you dont like me cuz I support Juve and I am form ITA? what is the reaosn? SHUT UP! get real!

[Ronnie Raygun]

Goffman was a man with an opinion, just like every other man.

Some people DO act like what they are. It's a shame you can't grasp that concept.

It also explains alot about you.

[ItalianBoy]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
Goffman was a man with an opinion, just like every other man.

Some people DO act like what they are. It's a shame you can't grasp that concept.

It also explains alot about you.

Actualy it seems you got the whole concept wrong, and what? it explains also lot about me? please, this self convinsign posts like I am right cuz I am, are pretty stupid. I say that if you dont like me for whatever reaosn, you say smarter stuff.

[Ronnie Raygun]

I don't understand your last post. How old are you, 10 or 11?

[ItalianBoy]

You dont understand? Sorry I thoght you were kidding but you really have deicensy problems! I am sorry. I mean somoene that for interests has GUNS! And works for Delta! hey! wtach out for the CIA! They are coming to get you! :rolleyes:

[Ronnie Raygun]

Are you drunk, retarded, or do you just have a really bad spelling problem?

[Zek]

some explanations
Iran - evil country, this does not mean that they're enemies with USA (I mean enemies with whom US is willing to fight).

Yes Iran supports terrorism and always supported in Islamic World. So what? I don't buy the bullshit about romantic politics. You fight only if it's beneficial for you and that's it. US and Iran will not benefit from the war. So they will not fight. And the last point how did I contradict myself?
You're taking a concept US is an enemy with all nations related to terrorism as postulate, but it's not so and it will never be.

I dont want to bother myself giving more explanations...

[KONY]

and the axis of evil?

[Severus]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
I don't know, "how dumber" can I get?

you can get "more dumber" ;)

[Severus]

and zek, the only regime the US are going to war with is saddam's. nobody thinks the US is actually going to attack tehran, but what they will seek to do i understand is help the moderate (pro-america) opposition topple the current dictatorship to hopefully some day establish a democracy there which is in fact, according to a poll i saw last week, what almost 60 % of the people want.

n.korea, the US are afraid of i think and i will repeat: bush wants SADDAM HUSSEIN'S head on a silver platter so he can show his daddy the head of the tyrant, senior never could sever. GO JR. GO !!! :D

[OAnimal]

I am not sure why US would be afraid of North Corea, there are more reasons to be afraid of Iraq, IMHO...

[Ronnie Raygun]

I don't think "afraid" is the right word.

[OAnimal]

OK, you may choose another word, but you know what I mean...

[Zek]

Originally posted by Severus
and zek, the only regime the US are going to war with is saddam's. nobody thinks the US is actually going to attack tehran, but what they will seek to do i understand is help the moderate (pro-america) opposition topple the current dictatorship to hopefully some day establish a democracy there which is in fact, according to a poll i saw last week, what almost 60 % of the people want.

n.korea, the US are afraid of i think and i will repeat: bush wants SADDAM HUSSEIN'S head on a silver platter so he can show his daddy the head of the tyrant, senior never could sever. GO JR. GO !!! :D

agreeeeeeeeeeeeee! ;)

[Ronnie Raygun]

Bush Sr. chose not to sever the head of Saddamm fearing it would cost too many American casualties. Hind sight is 20 20. So it's not that he couldn't, he chose not to.

[KONY]

ronnie u r truly suffering from alzheimers...the gulf war showed iraqis waving white flags.

[Andrija PFC]

nobody thinks the US is actually going to attack tehran, but what they will seek to do i understand is help the moderate (pro-america) opposition topple the current dictatorship to hopefully some day establish a democracy there which is in fact, according to a poll i saw last week, what almost 60 % of the people want.

However, if you've noticed Severus, the "axis of evil" remark (what a stupid, stupid, expression) p!ssed off everybody in Iran, including the democracy-seekers and their reformist president Hatami. One more thing, just because 60% of the people want a democracy, does not mean 60% are pro-american. Pro-democracy does not equal pro-american. Second, Iran is not really a dictatorship - it's a, how shall I say, a restricted democracy. Democratic institutions exist, the president and parliament of the republic are elected, etc. The problem, however, is the fact that Iran is bound by Islamic law, hence we have the ayatollahs who "oversee" Iran and make sure the Islamic Republic stays Islamic. So in terms of democracy, Iran is half-way there. What most people want is a release from the restrictions of Islamic law (the particular kind enforced in Iran, that is), i.e. the removal of the parallel power structures controlled by the ayatollah.

[Zek]

by the way islamic revolution in iran was organized actually by France

[Severus]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
Bush Sr. chose not to sever the head of Saddamm fearing it would cost too many American casualties. Hind sight is 20 20. So it's not that he couldn't, he chose not to.

i don't know about that. his attempts to asassinate saddam are well documented. they just couldn't do it.

I don't think "afraid" is the right word

they're afraid of the damage n.korea could inflict on them from right across the pacific. they have a nuclear arsenal saddam could only dream of ......... furthermore, n.korea aren't as divided as iraq are. the US wouldn't be able to march all over them as easily as they did to the iraqis believe me.

[Severus]

Originally posted by Andrija PFC


However, if you've noticed Severus, the "axis of evil" remark (what a stupid, stupid, expression) p!ssed off everybody in Iran, including the democracy-seekers and their reformist president Hatami. One more thing, just because 60% of the people want a democracy, does not mean 60% are pro-american. Pro-democracy does not equal pro-american. Second, Iran is not really a dictatorship - it's a, how shall I say, a restricted democracy. Democratic institutions exist, the president and parliament of the republic are elected, etc. The problem, however, is the fact that Iran is bound by Islamic law, hence we have the ayatollahs who "oversee" Iran and make sure the Islamic Republic stays Islamic. So in terms of democracy, Iran is half-way there. What most people want is a release from the restrictions of Islamic law (the particular kind enforced in Iran, that is), i.e. the removal of the parallel power structures controlled by the ayatollah.

oh absolutly. but i don't consider a nation a democracy/semi-democracy when only 1 religion is enforced. there's no freedom there. nevertheless, democracy or not those arab countries will always be major breeding grounds for islamic fundamentalists.

[Ronnie Raygun]

If North Korea used nukes against the U.S., there would be no marching.

[Severus]

yes exactly my point. one of the main reasons why bush is so determined to get this proposed missile defense system in the works or atleast on the front-burner, again.

[Ronnie Raygun]

He should. Then the rest of the worlds nuclear arsenal would be rendered useless......against us anyway.

Anyway, Sadamm has a few more months and he's gone.

[Severus]

yeah you think in that short of time ? i give it a year. i admire bush's resolve on the matter nevertheless.

[Ronnie Raygun]

I say he'll be gone by the fall.

[Severus]

i hope he dies tomorrow :thumbsup: