Which is the best league?

[Kuka]

well....say what you think

[Ulubatlı Souness]

Epl.

[PAO_HELLAS]

EPL but some years ago I would say the Spanish League.

[valdanito]

Here we go again.

[Kuka]

Almost all of the EPL that i've wathed are exiting and filled with very good plays and passes.
Spanish league is good but not as good as before :sad: It's still above many though.
I like Serie A a lot for the way they play their heart out in every match.

[Vipaman]

This is just going to cause division and fighting you know? Fans of the Aleague will say it's best. In the end it's personal preference, and usually the league with the most money will have the strongest teams. I prefer Serie A and Liga.

[Kuka]

My vote goes to Serie A.

[BavarianRed]

Epl easily...

[TM87_Maniac]

I say EPL, basically because of the conditioning and amount of world class teams in their league, La Liga has the most star players though :sad:

[Forza Ronaldo]

Now that I think of it EPL because they have many top teams in the world, but La Liga has soooooo many star players that's what puts it on top of Serie A even though they have 3-4 great quality teams and La Liga teams are sucessful in Europe this decade, not as much with Serie A only AC Milan, I'm pretty sure :confused:

[Forza Ronaldo]

I would say La Liga because La Liga has more superstars.

In EPL, Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool are strong. But the rest are not that good.

Bottom of the table EPL clubs > Bottom of the table La Liga clubs.

Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool > Barcelona, Real Madrid, Valencia, Villareal

[xfirestormx]

la liga imo. its between that and epl

[PAO_HELLAS]

This is just going to cause division and fighting you know? Fans of the Aleague will say it's best. In the end it's personal preference, and usually the league with the most money will have the strongest teams. I prefer Serie A and Liga.

Personally I am not a fan of any of these leagues, so I can be a bit more objective and judge from what I see. I used to consider the Spanish League the best in the world till some years ago, but interrelations often change.

The major downfall of Real Madrid was accompanied by a downfall of many other Spanish clubs as well. I think all will agree in this. English clubs on the other side remained stable and they were even some clubs with considerable ascend, with Manchester City being an example.

So I chosed the EPL, and I think there is a good difference from the second Spanish League.

[Vipaman]

My point is that people are going to typically side with the league they prefer, so instead of saying "best", the word "prefer" would make more sense. Like you said, you're not a fan of any of them, so (I'm guessing) you'd pick the Super League as your best/preferred league.

[PAO_HELLAS]

Yes, the Greek league would be my preferred one as my club plays there and it is the only league I watch every weekend. However I couldn't rank it as top in Europe :D

[Vipaman]

Fair enough. What would your criteria be for ranking top?

[PAO_HELLAS]

Outpout of overall better football from the top clubs (both performance and results) and high competivity in the league, meaning that the difference between the top teams and the rest is not chaotic - something happening in leagues like the Greek, the Turkish or the Scottish.

The presense of star players plays a big role, but it's not the only factor. Real Madrid still had so many star players during their downfall. Of course I agree with you that the role of money is critical, and this was expected since football entered such a commercialization.

[valdanito]

I like serie a HOWEVER we are behind the epl in many ways these days...

We cant fill up our stadiums, on top of that, those stadiums dont even belong to us. Our failure in europe in recent years is some what obvious. We are ruled by mafia men, most of our owners and presidents are in and out of court like changing their underwear. Corruption and political interventions are always around the corner.

but with what is being done, i think slowly serie a will be back to its shining days. Some things are already being done to control the high spenders in other leagues, that keep their balance sheets on minus A LOT every year.

Its only a matter of time.

[Baby Face Nelson]

Valda, I agree with you to a certain extent. What Liverpool and Man Utd spend while carrying all of that debt is just not right, but how do you control a Man City or Chelsea?

Man City especially have a bottomless pit of money...Surely it is up to their owners how much they spend to make a winning side if they aren't in debt?

[Ulubatlı Souness]

My point is that people are going to typically side with the league they prefer, so instead of saying "best", the word "prefer" would make more sense. Like you said, you're not a fan of any of them, so (I'm guessing) you'd pick the Super League as your best/preferred league.

Even though I prefer to watch La Liga over EPL, I still think EPL is the better league.

[Vipaman]

Outpout of overall better football from the top clubs (both performance and results) and high competivity in the league, meaning that the difference between the top teams and the rest is not chaotic - something happening in leagues like the Greek, the Turkish or the Scottish.

Excellent criteria. Good to know. I think this is certainly one factor however it would make a league like the Bundesliga, essentially up their as well, so it can't be the only one?

Of the three leagues in this thread, here are the top seven teams:

EPL:
Chelsea 54
Man Utd 53
Arsenal 49
Tottenham 42
Liverpool 41
Manchester City 41
Aston Villa 40

- fairly good neck-and-neck race between Chelsea and Man U, with Arsenal a respectable third. The remaining four currently competing for the fourth spot.

Serie A:
Internazionale 49
AC Milan 41
AS Roma 41
Napoli 38
Juventus 34
Palermo 34
Sampdoria 33
- Inter look to be in full control of the Scudetto race, even if there remains enough time to statistically make a difference, it looks as if they'll win it again. Notably the Serie A has been weakened by a poor Juventus (:sad: wrought with injuries and unfortunate circumstances with Ferrara's rookie year), but the possibility for 2nd, 3rd and 4th completely wide open and still quite competitive.

Liga:

Barcelona 52
Real Madrid 47
Valencia 39
Sevilla 36
Mallorca 34
Deportivo La Coruña 24
Getafe 31
- Barcelona in pole position, then Madrid and after that quite a massive drop for the rest. A two poney race currently.

Then other leagues of Europe:

Dutch Eredivisie:
PSV Eindhoven 52
Twente Enschede 52
Ajax Amsterdam 43
Feyenoord Rotterdam 39
SC Heracles Almelo 33
FC Utrecht 32
NAC Breda 29
- Another two poney race currently

Ligue 1 France:
Bordeaux 48
Montpellier 42
Lille 40
Lyon 39
AS Monaco 39
AJ Auxerre 39
Marseille 36
- Similar to Italy with one team clearly above the rest, but relative good competition for second.

German Bundesliga:
Bayer Leverkusen 44
Bayern Munich 42
Schalke 04 41
Dortmund 36
Hamburg SV 35
Werder Bremen 28
Frankfurt 28
- closest race for first of all the leagues. The Bundesliga used to be a one poney race for many years, but technically this league is probably the most competitive at the moment, although I doubt most people would say it's the best at this time.



The presense of star players plays a big role, but it's not the only factor. Real Madrid still had so many star players during their downfall. Of course I agree with you that the role of money is critical, and this was expected since football entered such a commercialization.

Ok, presence of star players is another factor.

Many people also cite CL, but I think the CL is a bit wanting of a measurement for several reasons. One of which is that it has been the usual suspects in the last 7-8 years; Milan, ManU, Barcelona, etc.

Another, and more importantly, unlike a league where all teams play each other twice, in the CL one team can get a favorable draw or one referee error/mistake could cost a game and thus the true differences are not know. Of course, in general strength of big clubs we see the ones that have been successful over the last 10 years namely the same teams; Barca, ManU, Milan, Liverpool, etc, though not a very consistent measure of all the teams in each league.

It would be awesome if for 1 year every four, each respective league would cease to exist and we'd have one big real European league of the top 5 teams in each league the year previous do an 36 game home and away.

What do you think?

Financially there would be too many complications, but what a higher statistical relevance of which league produces the best and most consistent football.


I like serie a HOWEVER we are behind the epl in many ways these days...

We cant fill up our stadiums, on top of that, those stadiums dont even belong to us. Our failure in europe in recent years is some what obvious. We are ruled by mafia men, most of our owners and presidents are in and out of court like changing their underwear. Corruption and political interventions are always around the corner.

but with what is being done, i think slowly serie a will be back to its shining days. Some things are already being done to control the high spenders in other leagues, that keep their balance sheets on minus A LOT every year.

Its only a matter of time.

I agree with much of what is said here. One thing that Serie A clubs are much better at is staying out of debt. As many people here know, one thing I am in favor of is debt regulation by UEFA, meaning that teams that are hundreds of millions and even billions of dollars in debt should be forced to clear that up before being able to compete in Europe. It's one thing to be able to buy and produce the best stars, but another to compete unfairly because you have huge bank rollers that borrow to no ends in order to buy the best. I want to see a parity or even playing ground and I think

1) Debt control

and

2) 6+5

are going to be two variables that bring this about.

These rules would effectively make it impossible to go into debt and buy every star around + be an equal representation of what each domestic league can produce + the foreign stars they can bring in.

I know all the arguments against 6+5. No need to repeat them here, only to say that provisions can be made to ammend laws to place sport in it's own separate category to be goverened in isolation. Amendments and provisions to existing laws are made everyday, and this is no different.


Even though I prefer to watch La Liga over EPL, I still think EPL is the better league.

What is your criteria for that Ulu?

[Vipaman]

Valda, I agree with you to a certain extent. What Liverpool and Man Utd spend while carrying all of that debt is just not right, but how do you control a Man City or Chelsea?

Man City especially have a bottomless pit of money...Surely it is up to their owners how much they spend to make a winning side if they aren't in debt?

Easy, a cumulative salary and transfer cap on all teams. No overspending. It works for the NFL, NBA and NHL

[MrRossi]

I would say it´s the German Bundesliga. I am German and may be biased but taking a closer look at the BuLi shows why this league is so good.

It is very competitive. There are many teams that are able to win the title. You have some teams that allways appear on top of the league but also a fair amount of teams that performe very good out of the nothing like Hoffenheim or Wolfsburg last season.

You have a big amount of stadiums that hold 50.000 or more and they are all sold out every weakend. The atmosphere in each of them is breathtaking. The ticket prices are fair.

The clubs are healthy. Their economic activity is good to very good and Bayern Munich may be the financially most potent club in Europe (Thanks Ulli). The clubs hold the mainpart of the shares which is judicial fixed. The club must leastwise hold 51%. So it is impossible that a company or investor comes along and ruins the club.

The only point that is against the Bundesliga is the amount of stars. But I am very sure that this will also change in the coming years. How long can the big clubs in Spain or England survive with this massive amount of liabilities? It´s just a matter of time.

EDIT
I forgot one point. The youth. Over the last years the BL Clubs have started big programs to build and form young talents. Nearly every team has a bunch of young players with a great amount of talent who are integrated as key players. The U-National teams proved that and many have made the step into the A-NT. If this program keeps going on like that the BL and NT will come up with their own stars. ;)

Don´t get me wrong. I love watching the big club games of all three leagues that are mentioned in this poll. They have big stars and the few top clubs play great football. But that is not the point that makes a first class league in my opinion.

EDIT
Sure... every BL fan would love to see players like a Lionel Messi or a Wayn Rooney and to be honest we are a little jealous about that. ;) But as a football fan it is great to watch them play independent from the Club they signed.

[Vipaman]

All good points Rossi. A fairly close battle for first in the Bundesliga, no teams in the red so all fiscally sound and full stadiums. Only knock is a low quantity of stars. Possible the argument of success in Europe lately, but again it's a tournament that seems dominated not by more than a handful of clubs for the better part of the last decade.

[footballfan999]

So in essence, the German league is the best in the long run.

[Solid Snake]

Liga:

Barcelona 52
Real Madrid 47
Valencia 39
Sevilla 36
Mallorca 34
Deportivo La Coruña 24
Getafe 31

24? :lol:


Many people also cite CL, but I think the CL is a bit wanting of a measurement for several reasons. One of which is that it has been the usual suspects in the last 7-8 years; Milan, ManU, Barcelona, etc.

Runners-up and Semi Finalists count too.

[Baby Face Nelson]

Here is a stat that may surprise some of you...

50% of EPL players are current internationals.

41.6% of Bundesliga players are current internationals.

29.1% of SerieA players are current internationals.

23.45 of LaLiga players are current internationals.

So, the highest % of quality international players belongs to England followed by Germany. :smoking: :help:

[Solid Snake]

source

[Baby Face Nelson]

Sky Sports today.

[Baby Face Nelson]

source


I was genuinely surprised at the figure in Germany..Great league to watch though.

[Vipaman]

So, the highest % of quality international players belongs to England

There was no mention of quality in those stats, probably because you can't measure that. There was certainly mention of quantity thought, and when a greater % of the league is foreign, wouldn't that make sense?

[Baby Face Nelson]

I agree with you somewhat in that too...To be quite frank I am better than some of these so called Internationals in the EPL.

However, the EPL does have plenty of superstars too...

Interestingly enough...tonight 2 EPL sides are going out of the FA Cup to league opposition. Wigan and Wolves both losing.

[Vipaman]

I agree with you somewhat in that too...To be quite frank I am better than some of these so called Internationals in the EPL.

However, the EPL does have plenty of superstars too..

See above...the money is there, so the stars will follow it. We know how it works. South American's have been complaining about the drain on their talent for years, so it's just natural that this would happen.

[AngloSaxon]

It has to be the English Premier League. There really is no competition. We are the most dramatic, thrilling and exciting league in the world compared to the slow, boring mediocre leagues such as Serie A.

[Solid Snake]

It has to be the English Premier League. There really is no competition. We are the most dramatic, thrilling and exciting league in the world compared to the slow, boring mediocre leagues such as Serie A.

You sure there's no competition?

No competition for Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal you must mean?

The "slow, boring mediocre" League/Clubs have been winners of the Champions League/European Cup 11 times and 14 Runners up.

Italian Clubs = 26 Finals and 34 Semi Finals VS English Clubs = 17 Finals and 38 Semi Finals.

Don't forget Italy's 4 World Cups :yo:

Why do you think Chelsea appointed Carlo Ancelotti as manager? Man City and Mancini? :D

Even the England National Team and Fabio Capello :thumbsup: :D

[Baby Face Nelson]

You sure there's no competition?

No competition for Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal you must mean?

The "slow, boring mediocre" League/Clubs have been winners of the Champions League/European Cup 11 times and 14 Runners up.

Italian Clubs = 26 Finals and 34 Semi Finals VS English Clubs = 17 Finals and 38 Semi Finals.

Don't forget Italy's 4 World Cups :yo:

Why do you think Chelsea appointed Carlo Ancelotti as manager? Man City and Mancini? :D

Even the England National Team and Fabio Capello :thumbsup: :D

Read the title of the thread...What does England, Capello or the World Cup have to do with it?

The EPL is the best league right now...Period.

[AngloSaxon]

No competition for Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal you must mean?

Atleast our league is a 3 horse race instead of a 1 horse race every season. I wonder who's gonna win Serie A this season? :lol:


The "slow, boring mediocre" League/Clubs have been winners of the Champions League/European Cup 11 times and 14 Runners up.

Italian Clubs = 26 Finals and 34 Semi Finals VS English Clubs = 17 Finals and 38 Semi Finals.

We all know the Champions League favours the continental style of play so naturally Italian teams are gonna do better. English clubs find it hard to express their style of play without the referee giving fouls all the time and stopping the momentum of the game. We like to play a fast, attacking and physical game but we are never allowed to do that in Europe.


Why do you think Chelsea appointed Carlo Ancelotti as manager? Man City and Mancini? :D

Even the England National Team and Fabio Capello :thumbsup: :D

The question should really be: Why do you think so many Italian managers come to the Premier League? Maybe because they're sick of managing boring Italian clubs who are going nowhere so instead they come to England to manage the best teams in the world.

[Vipaman]

Read the title of the thread...What does England, Capello or the World Cup have to do with it?

The EPL is the best league right now...Period.

Because of?

Barcelona is the best team in the world right now, and thumped the best EPL teams in the CL last year too.

As said before, it's as much a favoritism thread as it is best. We don't have a really decent measure, as in league championship, but I agree some of the best stars play in the EPL. It has some really good managers, and even if it is a pretty tight three way race right now, one of the usual suspect will win. Not that this is any different in Spain and Italy with the usual suspects winning the championship. The closest competitions right now is the Bundesliga.

[Vipaman]

The question should really be: Why do you think so many Italian managers come to the Premier League?

Easy...they are getting paid more.



Maybe because they're sick of managing boring Italian clubs

This is ignorant. EPL teams defend more than Italian ones these days. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about because if you did you wouldn't parrot this old boring stereotype. How typical....we get Dupont and Gunner to behave and another one comes forward to spread the same old nonsense.



who are going nowhere so instead they come to England to manage the best teams in the world.

$$ And why does the EPL need them, ever ask yourself that? Why did you national team need an Italian mind? ;) Why not stick with McClaren? :lol:

Top managers in the EPL:

Scottish, Italian, French and at one time in the not too distant past a Spaniard and Portuguese.

Don't make it a question of envy, because if the English Prem was standing mostly on it's own two feet with quality English managers and most of it's stars being domestic, and people criticized you could say envy, but the facts are in opposition to that statement. Show me the numbers, and don't talk smack and we'll have a good time :)

[Vipaman]

We all know the Champions League favours the continental style of play so naturally Italian teams are gonna do better. English clubs find it hard to express their style of play without the referee giving fouls all the time and stopping the momentum of the game. We like to play a fast, attacking and physical game but we are never allowed to do that in Europe.

Utter Rubbish. Italian and Spanish teams dominated when it was an 8 (domestic) and 3 (foreign) rule, but since the Bosman ruling and with the EPL's foreign money, more foreign stars started coming to your league and your teams started doing better in Europe. But the CL and the now Europa league are not as statistically valid for judging teams as a true league is where all teams play each other twice, thereby giving a more valid comparison of which team(s) are strongest.

And as far as style is concerned, you guys are playing more defensive than anyone else these days, though I agree that most teams still try to play at an all out pace, which is sort of boring from time to time too. It's preferences speaking here. That said, last year your teams were the recipients of many calls that pulled the game in your favor, specifically the Roma/Arsenal and Juve/Chelsea games. Did you watch them? There were at least 2-3 incidents in both that tipped the favor in your direction. Not so much in the Man U / Inter game other than Inter smacking the uprights a few times, but that's just bad luck.

[Solid Snake]

We are the most dramatic, thrilling and exciting league in the world compared to the slow, boring mediocre leagues such as Serie A.

"The English Premier League is the best league because its faster and more entertaining" is the most overused and stupid statement I've heard.

Since when is Football a horse race? :lol:

[Solid Snake]

There are tastes in football. I like they style that was brought by the Netherlands and Ajax in the early 70s... The same philosophy Barcelona uses nowadays since Johan Cruyff. Other fans prefer fast, physical, well timed passes in smaller fields like in Scotland or England. Others prefer watching Serie A matches were results are won very tactically like a game of chess... in large fields. Might be less entertaining for most people.. You really have to take your chances in Italy, and know what to do before you even have the ball...

[LindavG]

There are tastes in football. I like they style that was brought by the Netherlands and Ajax in the early 70s... The same philosophy Barcelona uses nowadays since Johan Cruyff. Other fans prefer fast, physical, well timed passes in smaller fields like in Scotland or England. Others prefer watching Serie A matches were results are won very tactically like a game of chess... in large fields. Might be less entertaining for most people.. You really have to take your chances in Italy, and know what to do before you even have the ball...

I like your taste :D:thumbsup:

On a serious note, it depends on how you define "best". If best means most competitive, I would say it's the Bundesliga. If best means the most quality players, I would say it's the EPL. If best means most intelligent and tactical, I would say it's Serie A. And if best means most exciting style of play, I would say it's La Liga.

[Vipaman]

"The English Premier League is the best league because its faster and more entertaining" is the most overused and stupid statement I've heard.

Since when is Football a horse race? :lol:

Nice one, but also in the last three years I've observed a trend in the EPL to defending 1 goal leads. Tell me this isn't true. No, it's not exclusively true of all teams, but a trend that I've seen observable. It used to be the #1 knock of Serie A teams, but teams in Serie A progressively dumped this as an exclusive approach since mid 90's and going even more full tilt in the last 5 years.

Fact is that all teams, with perhaps the exception of Barcelona, use this tactic to varying degree's these days. There isn't as much difference amongst the leagues as there used to exist, even if it wasn't even entirely true then.

I also agree with Linda's post above, a point I was trying to make earlier one when I was asking how individuals defined best.

Probably, the most objective way to measure this would if we could take the top teams in each league (4 from EPL, Liga, Serie A...3 from...2 from...1 from....etc...like they do for CL) and put them into a Europe league that competes with each other exclusively for the whole season with home/away fixtures. Let's see which teams finish amongst the top as a measure of which leagues have the stongest TOP teams.

Still that wouldn't be completely accurate because we can't measure the mid tabled teams against each other...so...in the end we're left with aribitrary measures dictated by tastes.

I have to say though, Serie A and Liga play is getting faster these days too, but the one thing I've consistently seen from teams in these leagues is an ability to change pace from fast to slow and vice versa. I haven't yet seen that as a characteristic by most teams in the EPL. they are usually on one pace for the whole match. There are exceptions to the rule however.

PS Linda, you went missing for a few days....is the hamster alright? :)

[LindavG]

@ Vipaman, I happen to have a social life outside of SFN too :)

[Vipaman]

@ Vipaman, I happen to have a social life outside of SFN too :)

However, you've been back posting in other threads, except for the one you were wrong in :lol:

Enjoy your life outside of forums, I know I do :thumb:

I do genuinely hope the hamster is doing well though :)

[LindavG]

However, you've been back posting in other threads, except for the one you were wrong in :lol:

Enjoy your life outside of forums, I know I do :thumb:

I do genuinely hope the hamster is doing well though :)

You mean the Terry affair? I didn't even see it was still active. But if it makes you feel better I'll take a look at it right now. I see the hamster thing is still bothering you though :lol: I heard Terry had a good game today... what does this mean Vipa, since you are able to analyse a player's personal life by their composure on the pitch? :)

[Vipaman]

Bothering me? Well that wouldn't be the best of your imaginations Linda

Still with the putting words in others mouths tactic Linda? ;)

Boogy Boogy Boogy

:lol:

[Solid Snake]

@ Vipaman, I happen to have a social life outside of SFN too :)

:thumbsup: Glad to hear that. Don't take this shit hole seriously. It aint worth it..

:sorry: I didn't say that

[Vipaman]

I'm going to report that post Snake. No need to use profanities and call our home a shit hole.

























:lol:

Now back to topic. What league and why? Or has that horse been beaten dead yet?