Its time to finish this.......

[Drummer]

Ok lets clear this up. Anybodys suggestions and resons are welcome. What makes a league the best league in the world and what is the Best one currently?? Base your Answer on the last few years........
I think that the headings would be---

1. The amount of world class players in it.

2 The excitement of the games in it.

3 The excitement of the league itself

4 The quality of the teams in it ( not just BIG NAMED TEAMS like Lazio and Parma etc that are not playing well at the mo )


5 The teams it has in Europe ( ie their success)

Maybe there are more factors, im open to suggestion. Now of course everybody has their own opinion as to what an exciting game is ( I like loads of goals) and great play.. Exciting games dont necessarily have to be full of skill. On this point I think that the Spanish or EPL are the best (my opinion) for excitement, the average goals per game says it all (2 per game in the premiership is the worst average of a team!!!)

I think that Spain , EPL and Italy are very close as to where the best players are . Again this is open to criticism as to who people think are world class. I think though that spain is the best, because they havge 4 of the best in Figo, zidane, Rivaldo and Roberto Carlos, wheras Italy have Del pierro and Totti ( the closest to the above mentioned) Ronaldo is not a world class player as he has not played a proper season in years. He is was great player a few years ago , but who is to say he hasnt lost it??? Until he plays consistantly and good , he cant be said to be currently a world class player.

The Italian league is the closest and therefore sems to be the most exciting.

Teams in Italy are very close as to their similar strength. No league is closer really. At the mo, the EPL is very close, with 8 points between the top 10, but thats not over the last few years though!!!!!!! I must point out though that while United have been destroying the EPL , the fights for 2nd 3rd 4th 5th and sometimes 6th have been exciting. When Italy had a super power Milan or Juve , I dont recall people sayingthat the Italian league is crap because only 1 team kept controlling it!!!!!!!!!


Euro succes is tied in with how close in strength team s are (quality of them) because any league can be close or have a load of teams similar in strength (this doesnt make the league great) but how these teams do in Europe ( dont even have to win it) determines how good quality the teams in the league actually are. I think that Spanish clubs ( even if its normally the same 4 or 5 , are the best by far in this department...

Overall I think that Spain wins out.........

[ItalianBoy]

Good post drummer!

Well I think it depeds what you consider the best players I mean you might like Figo and I dont and I l might like Crespo and you dont so its all up to each one of us. Still I have to point out that you seem to forget the vast selection of world class players. You only name few when in fact there are way more. I say the ITA league has definatly lost something, given that Parma and Fiore are not the same, but to me, with Juve, milan, Inter Lazio and Roma, I say that 5vs the 4 of SPA I say mines are better. About the CL, I think that they are 2 different things, usually a team that plays both the C and the CL and its supposed to win or try to win both they have problems and usually they do better in only one of them as you can see with Juve and Roma and Real and Barca etc. So to say that the CL makes a league great I dont know. To me it depeds what soccer you like, and most of all what team you support and HOW much of the games you see. I persoanlly see all the SERIE A games. I do see Real playing in CL and the rest of the big teams in EPl Liga and I have to say that with some of them I am not impressed when I espect a team to be awesome since a commentator said they are.

About the style of soccer I tink that sure, ITA games are more tactical but it dosent mean they are always like that. I saw the Juve game today and there was tactic but like Real usues the tattic of letting Figo up front to thne pass it to Raul. Good tattic by Del Bosque by the way.

[Drummer]

Lets just let bygones be bygones. We could spend all our time argueing this point......:)

[ItalianBoy]

Wel we dont need to argue I mean I cant change or you cant change what I like. If you htink one guy is better than...... its all up to you!

[An9el123]

well so far Italian leagues has 2 votes :)

[Drummer]

You may see a smart comment or two around, but I take them back . Lets try to get along, even if we dont agree ( lets hope we dont argue about that).........;)

[FANTA]

1. The amount of world class players in it

batistuta (roma)
totti (roma)
montella (roma)
signori (bologna)
nuno gomes (fiorentina)
cheisa (fiorentina)
christian vieri (inter)
javier zanetti (inter)
dalmat (inter)
toldo (inter)
conceicao (inter)
crespo (lazio)
stam (lazio)
mendieta (lazio)
nesta (lazio)
baggio (brescia)
guardiola (brescia)
cannavaro (parma)
shevchenko (milan)
maldini (milan)
rui costa (milan)
del piero (juve)
trezeguet (juve)
buffon (juve)
nedved (juve)
salas (juve)
thuram (juve)

2 is opinion.

3, serie a is usually decided on the last day, unlike some other league ...

quality of teams,

inter, milan, juve, lazio, roma ...

teams in europe,

roma, juve CL

milan, inter, fiorentina, parma UC

i don't really see the point of this topic ... it'll achieve nothing except, 'no it's not the best ... no this is better ... no that's not exciting blah blah ...'

[Drummer]

The players you have mentioned are world class in your opinion.... Alot of those players are just above average..... Again thats my opinion... Serie A has been decided on the last day in the last 2 or 3 seasons which does make for an exciting finish......
Lazio arent exactly a quality team at the mo.......

i don't really see the point of this topic ... it'll achieve nothing except, 'no it's not the best ... no this is better ... no that's not exciting blah blah ...'

How about in future in your whole life you Dont respond to something you dont see any point in.......

[FANTA]

why not ? that's the whole idea of a forum - to post !

[Drummer]

Exactly Its a forum for peoples comments.. But why respond to something you dont see any point in being posted in the first place??????
Most messages are fans opinions (which differ) therefore most messages are going to be 'no it's not the best ... no this is better ... no that's not exciting blah blah ...' . So wheres your point???:D

[FANTA]

well firstly, you say that;

I think though that spain is the best, because they havge 4 of the best in Figo, zidane, Rivaldo and Roberto Carlos, wheras Italy have Del pierro and Totti ( the closest to the above mentioned)

ok, spain have 4 of the best players. thats fine.

but italy 2 ? :confused:

your opinion, fine, i don't care ... i was just showing you all the world class players (MY OPINON, and probably the opinion of millions of others) in italy ... but you consider alot of them average. again fine, i don't care what you think.

but are you a regular watcher of serie a games ? if yes, then ok. if no, then how can you say they are average when you don't even watch them every week ?

and also, if i find a topic that's pointless, then i'll say it. same if i think a topic is great, i'll say it. i'm still going to respond either way, because that's the whole idea of this place, to talk and say what you think.

[Drummer]

What ??
and also, if i find a topic that's pointless, then i'll say it
Thats fine but why answer the pointless topic ( you wrote a nice little letter on Italy being the best).. I dont watch that much Italian football, I catch the odd game. But these world class players are having terrible difficulty proving themselves against the world class players in other teams , arent they???? I think that to say a player is great because they play well in your league can only really be backed up when they come up against teams from other country's. Italians teams great players cant compete with other top Euro teams!! But they are still world class, arent they!!!!!!!:rolling:

[FANTA]

Originally posted by Drummer
But these world class players are having terrible difficulty proving themselves against the world class players in other teams , arent they????

yeah, like who ?

i'll name some,

mendieta
guardiola
farinos
jose mari

pretty much anyone who's spanish perform crap in italy.

i just said they were world class, not whether they were performing in italy or not.

i think mendieta is one of the worst buys in history and should get out of italy ASAP, but he's still world class. just look what he did at valencia.

hey, italy just isn't cut out for some people. just ask 'big gazza' paul gascoigne or paul ince ! ... or your buddy robbie keane.

now it's your turn to start naming some names and stop with all this, ' this player, that player ... that team isn't !!' etc etc

see i told you this topic wouldn't achieve anything. entitled "it's time to finish this ..." all it did was pour more fuel onto the fire.

[ItalianBoy]

Exactly Fantasista! Thats my whole point with drummer too! And plus how the heck can he consider players like Bati etc AVERAGE!!!!!!!!!!! You mention some of the players but there are way more!

[Drummer]

Here is a list of players that I consider to be of world class pedigree ( also with relation to your players like signori and Maldini who have surpassed their potential).

Thierri Henry
Patrick Viera
David Seaman
Tony Adams
Nigel Martyn
Lee Bowyer
Mark Viduka
Harry Kewell
Michael Owen
Steven Gerard
Jari Litmanen
Fab ravenelli
Robbie Fowler ( not plaing to well at mo)
Paulo Di Canio
Bartez (overrated like alot of players but largely still considered to be world class)
David Beckham
ryan Giggs
Paul Scholes
Juan Veron
Roy Keane
Ruud Van Nisterlooy
Jimmy Floyd Hasslebaink
Emman Petit
Christian Ziege
teddy Sheringham
Sol Campbell..
Among others
Again you see players play well in the Italian serie A and these players play well in th EPL and Europe . Some of them are up and coming stars and some are veterans... Im sure that you disagree with alot , but I wouldnt agree with all yours. Not all your above mentioned players would succeed in the Premiership. Remember its yee Italians that think you have the best players , i dont really care but I dont agree with you.

[Drummer]

If Guardiola is doing so bad in the Serie A does that make him a poor player??? Otherwise why is he on your list of world class players??? Just because a player is particularly good in the Spanish league and not in the Serie A does not make them a bad player. Maybe the type of football doesnt suit them. Just like the thought of buying a great individual like Rivaldo is pointless to a team like United because they are a great team as opposed to the likes of Real who are a great team of Individuals. Because Robbie Keane or Gazza didnt succeed in Italy doesnt make them less better . The Italian game is less suited to (the Figo's and Rivaldo's also) them . Gazza was brilliant in the 1990 world cup against the top teams of the world (and for Spurs) playing for a team that plays his kind of football, yet he couldnt make it in Italy so hes a flop!!!!!!!!! Get a grip. The Italian league isnt a way of measuring how good an individual player is. Zidane isnt doing too well in Spain at the mo, does that mean that he isnt as good a player as we all think or just that Real dont use him to the best of his abilities??? Obviously the situation at Real doesnt seem to be working out at present , it happens to the best of footballers.

I never said that Batistuta was above average, I said that I think alot of the list mentioned were. Again you fans cant read a post properly.. Bats is a legend..........

[ItalianBoy]

PLEASE DRUM!!!!!!!! Maldini lost his potentioal!? OK, than I guess you lost it A long time ago! I mean all the players listed are world players but you say they arent cuz YOU know that compare to your loser list, they will kick your ass. Please drum, stop posting on this topi, you are getting more ridicoules everytime!

[Drummer]

You really cant see any other point beyond the Serie A , can you.... I made a valid point on players playing well in certain leagues and you pick ouy my comment on maldini. As much as it kills me to say , Maldini has already reached his potential, when do you think a player has passed their potential? What is Maldini going to achieve or show us that he already hasnt??? I didnt say hes crap, he will not get any better then he has already been , therefoe he has already reached his potential. Class dismissed, I will teach you more about soccer players soon...........

[Drummer]

I just realised that you said that I wrote that Maldini has lost his potential... I didnt you idiot, I said that he had surpassed it , like Roberto Baggio also has. This proves that you only take what you want from statements that you dont like. Surpassing ones potential doesnt mean that you are not a good player. It means that you probobley wont ever play as well as you have played in the past.

[FANTA]

Originally posted by Drummer
If Guardiola is doing so bad in the Serie A does that make him a poor player??? Otherwise why is he on your list of world class players??? Just because a player is particularly good in the Spanish league and not in the Serie A does not make them a bad player.

YES I KNOW THIS .... I KNOW !!!!!!!!!!

DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I SAID ABOUT MENDIETA ?!?!?!?!?!?

THE SAME APPLIES FOR GUARDIOLA

for ***k sakes man

Originally posted by Drummer

Class dismissed, I will teach you more about soccer players soon...........


hey, can you tell me how christian vieri went in the EPL on the weekend ? i heard he scored a couple :D

who does he play for again ? :D :D :D


PS, the big writing is so you can read it more clearly. you've shown to have some trouble reading in the past, hope that helps.

perhaps you should lay off the guinness while posting here :thumbsup:

ciao ciao

[Drummer]

Well done fanta! you are just as blind as It boy. I pointed out that some players just arent meant for the Serie A type of football. I bet alot of the Italian stars would have terrible trouble playing in the rough and tumble of the EPL........

[NeraAzzurri32]

Zola hasn't...........I wonder why panucci came back to serie A???.............

[Drummer]

Probobley because he wasnt worshipped as much as he was in Italy.......

[ItalianBoy]

Panucci is not worshiped. He played in every single champiosnhip in europe GREAT and guess what? he said that they are different but no one is like ITA! and please Class dismissed, I will teach you more about soccer players soon.......
Who the fukk do you tuink you are! You are just some jelous 14 year old dude, that cant accept that he as been KICKED in the ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5-1 baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! look above STUPID!
So I think that the south african league is WAY better than EPL or liga! hey great team dont make a good champ, said by the master of bull shit himslef DRUM! and guess hwta guys! its useless to buy good players cuz like DRUM said, a good C is not made by them! I guess what is in the twisted mind of Drumm! I actually enjoy reading his stuff! its total crpa but its funny! He lost the argument ages ago and he is still going like a DURACELL! :D Keep it up MATE!

[Drummer]

I have so little knowledge of football I lie to myself to convinceyself that I am, right.
So 5 people have voted for Italy is that all the people on this site?? Most people opted to say nothing because they dont want assholes Particularly ones with nothing constructive and accusational like yourself. This means what anyway ? That most people that read this post dont agree with me , so what did I lose. All I have asked for is reasons as to why you think your leagueto be so good and I got very parallell and tame answers.
Nobody can answer a simple query on if the Italian league is the best now , then what was it when Milan and Juve were winning it, among other questions. I know enough to know that people take what they want from a statement , whatever its meant to mean, if I was to say to a mate 'you are such a scabby jew ' he would laugh and forget about it. If I was to say it to a Jewish person then they wouldnt take too kindly, therefore anything else I say to them would be taken as offense (more than likely) . The point being that a persons judgement is clouded on things that mean something to them, therefore they only see or hear or read what they want to. Some neutral fans may disagree , probobley because they think that Im just shitting on the Serie A. Im sure most have forgotten and dont even know that All im saying is that I dont think that its the best and what reason have their fans to think so??

its useless to buy good players cuz like DRUM said, a good C is not made by them!

Where did I say that ?? Get me a quote?? You sad ***k , you must be no more then 12. Im not the one saying these stupid things (that im a liar because I think differantly to you) and making up things you say ... At least I can defend my position. You can only taunt, you must be a real fan, like the ones that burn stadium seats to get their points across to people or players that disagree on your opinoins or point of view..

You obviously dont have too much knowledge on football outside of Italy, especially when you have to make up how many goals have been scored there on average. All I did was went to an italian site and checked the results, something which you are not obviously capable of doing.. I know enough about football to know that Brilliant players dont make great teams, in the football world today brilliant team players make great teams!!!!!!!Lesson2 over.............. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :rolling:

[ItalianBoy]

Please everyone read and LAUGH! We brought you loads of reaosns! you cant skip them! and more over you got your Lesson 2 shit! please drim you are one pathtic loser! I aint posting reason no more cuz its uselless you just DUmb!

Look at how you are abssesed ! look the huge post!

[Drummer]

i hope you dont reply. Im just waiting to see what I am lieing to myself about next, or what I actually meant about certain things , even though I didnt write them down.. :D

[Drummer]

I wasnt far off your age was I???? why dont you Go and support your local baseball team or something.......:evil:

[ItalianBoy]

Drum I aint 12 bro! I dont see why you have to be so unsensitive!!!!!! You broke my heart! :rolleyes:
Drumm! Lets finsh ok! to me the ITA is better, to you tyhe Spanish is better! FAIR ENOUGH! now will you please LEAVE and post like normal people do!:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Drummer]

just a comment on your peaceful theory. You said in another thread that I should not of started a thread on this and that I attacked peaceful responses to this. I will point out that italian fans were the one that started this by saying that the fact that fergeson was managing in th EPL Meant that his record is pretty lame, because of the quality of the league...

[ItalianBoy]

Look drum, I dont care ok, if you prefer the ESP beaing better ok I dont htink so! To me Fergy is one hell of a coahc. maybe we misuderstood each other, good enough!

[Drummer]

That Aok with me....

[King Italy]

Of course it is the Serie A

[Drummer]

Im afraid you are 3 weeks too late , for me to understand what Of course it is the Serie A
actually refers to.........:confused:
Its probobley better we didnt get into this..........;)