What happened to Careca?

[Jasper]

Hey guys,
What happened to Brazil's '86 star Careca who later played for Napoli?
He was an awesome striker and one of my best at the time.

And that goal celebration samba of his........cool....:)

What about Zico?

cheers

[Joey]

I don't know about what happened to caresa, but zico is the coasch of a japanese club i think.. i am sure he is caoshing somewhere in asia or was atleast.:D

[Garrincha]

Careca is now an agent for assorted young players, I believe. He has created (or purchased, I'm not sure) a small team in his hometown, Campinas; in that team he's organizing a "school" system to reveal players. I don't think he has plans of turning his team into a competitive, "championship" team; it's more of a "factory" of players, if you will. Lots of talented kids who need training, y'know. His name was mentioned in that recent "fake-passport" scandal, but I don't know if he was actually involved.

Zico, on the other hand, has worked as manager and coach of Japan's Kashima Antlers (where he retired from soccer for the 2nd time). Now he enjoys a "supervisor" status that allows him to be in Brazil most of the time. It was the only way Kashima could stick with him, as his family had decided to return to Brazil. He returned to run the club he created - with the managing experience he gained in Japan - called CFZ (which stands for Zico Football Center). His plans are to turn this CFZ into a full-fledged 1st division side within the next 15-20 years. As you can see, an ambitious dream. The club is currently in Rio de Janeiro's 2nd division, and still hasn't qualified for the Brazilian 3rd division. But who knows? maybe he'll pull it off.

One thing that might get in his way is that he's always being invited to be president of Flamengo (the club that revealed him to soccer and where he achieved his greatest glories), and I think the idea is appealing to him. But hey, I might be wrong.

[Severus]

ahh careca and zico ... 2 of the greatest players this world has ever seen. and its no coincidence both of them were two stars of serie A back in their hay days.

what phenomenal talent you guys USED to produce eh garrin ;)

[Garrincha]

Ah, Severus, don't point at things that aren't there, or people will think you're imagining them.
Brazil's problem isn't lack of talent, it's more an organizational and administrative problem than a technical one. The National Team is feeling the brunt of the administrative sloppiness that has plagued Brazilian football for years, creating mockery tournaments, promoting new stars that are sold too soon and get eclipsed by mismanagement, and pandering to local agendas.

And when the team with the golden shirt loses, it's a worldwide "ooohhh" that thunders through the skies! The coaches have to work under the emotional stress of having your work criticized by every single citizen, and seeing the team be booed by our own home crowds at the 35th min of the 1T because the show wasn't spectacular enough. These people have been spoiled by decades of excellent teams; Brazilian supporters never settle for less, therefore the team is rarely good enough to meet the expectations.

But the problem isn't lack of talent. Do we lack a team of fuoriclasse? Yes, but there aren't many fuoriclasse in the whole world, maybe two or three, probably not even that. Brazil still has some of the world's greatest talents, though no true "craques" (fuoriclassi) left save for Romario. Ronaldo (R9) and Rivaldo are excellent but not as good as the true greats. Roberto Carlos has been making a name for himself through solid playmaking, being the best in his position in the world today. But a supporter will say, can he compare to Nilton Santos?* Can he compare to Junior?

Brazil's biggest problems are a terribly hapless domestic mismanagement, and having to live up to a well-deserved high reputation.

>>>>> <<<<<
* Nilton Santos was Brazil's leftback in the 50-54-58-62 WCs, having won the last two. He was known as "The Encyclopedia Of Soccer", invented the offensive wingbacks as we know them, and is recognized by FIFA as the greatest left-back who ever played the game.

[ou niculese]

I think the problem with Brasile is that they lack cohesion. Too many individuals it seems with not enough committment for the overall success of the team.

Still not a team to take likely though.

[ItalianBoy]

FALCAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Severus]

garrin i was only kidding. you lot still develop quality talent, its just not in abundance as before IMO.

[Joey]

I think Scholari is cooking something really special for the bolivia match.. but i hope no injuryies come up.. i think scholari will start with the following attacking trio (a more attacking apparoach):

This could be like old times with:

Denilson - Rivladho/Ronaldo(if he recovers in time, however i doubt it) - Romario

I read it in dailysoccer and i think it can bring back the 4-0 and 5-0 wins...

what do u guys think about this attacking tri.,.:D ;)

[Garrincha]

I think Edilson is playing in Ronaldo's position. Scolari, IMO, has conceived of this sweet system where R9 will fit like a glove, and it would be in the place Edilson's presently occupying.

I wish Amoroso would get more chances, as well as Lyon's Juninho (you guys think Rosicky is a good playmaker? THIS guy is SOLID GOLD!). But the team is beginning to look cohesive for the first time in a looong while, so I'll understand if Scolari refuses to make experimentations right away.

[OAnimal]

Garrincha, it's really great news for me to read that Brazil actually looked good against Chile. I know you will beat Bolivia and Venezuela to qualify for World Cup. And there I hope you'll take what you deserve - the World Cup title. :cool:

Even though if we get to the World Cup and beat you in the finals, it wouldn't be too bad either. ;):D:D:D:D

[Joey]

I don't think we should be over excited gar.. i mean we are creating good strategy's and starting to settle down.. we should take it one a time..

i also heard that they might get Carlos (Boca's coach) to lead brazil to thier 5th WC... is that right..??

i think that is stupid right now, and quite annoying to scholari.. we shoul dwait after we qualify first..;)

[ItalianBoy]

Carlos Bianchi is the dumbest dude in the whole world! :mad:

[Garrincha]

This story about Bianchi is ridiculous. Scolari is the man, even though the Brazilian media are ganging up on him (he's a pubic relations specialist's worst nightmare, always saying the wrong thing). The last thing he said was that old-time players had it easy, and therefore their achievements weren't all that important - said in the context of defending his players on a comparation against old Cup-winning players, and how much better the retired players were... which I think is nostalgic Bullsh*t, but apparently a lot of people disagree.

Needless to say, a lotta people in Brazil are now willing to fry Scolari in boiling oil. He's just terrible at politics, and frequently says stuff the traditional press hates. I think he's doing a good job, though, and hope the press morons won't take him down.

[Ze da Fiel]

careca is the owner of Campinas futebol clube and a football agent.
i met him last year in miami and is still playing good!:dontcare:

[Ze da Fiel]

next manager of brazil is one of tehse guys:
jair picerni, nelsinho, oslvaldo de oliveira or levir culpi!

[Severus]

Originally posted by OAnimal
Garrincha, it's really great news for me to read that Brazil actually looked good against Chile. I know you will beat Bolivia and Venezuela to qualify for World Cup. And there I hope you'll take what you deserve - the World Cup title. :cool:

why do they deserve it because they're struggling to make it in ??? that's ridiculous ! its still a little early to choose who deserves to win but if there is one deserved sentimental favourite, it would undoubtedly be BAGGIO & MALDINI'S AZZURRI !!! who on brasil deserves it more than these 2 ?

[ItalianBoy]

Plus if looking great means playing like they did against chile, you guys are going to be worst than the USA!
I think that BRA has the players, or some, but they dont play as a team.

[Garrincha]

Originally posted by Ze da Fiel
next manager of brazil is one of tehse guys:
jair picerni, nelsinho, oslvaldo de oliveira or levir culpi!

Don't you think Picerni needs some time in big clubs before? He's been doing an excellent job at São Caetano (Brazil's Chievo, the unexpected small-club leader) but I think he should show us more, like wether he can build a good team out of superstar material (not as obviously easy as you'd expect, IMO; Brazilian superstars often give their own coaches strategic headaches, for lack of cooperation - it's the biggest reason why so many Brazilians return to our country from Europe) . I mean, Scolari had a successful career for over 15 years before having his shot at the NT. The same with Luxemburgo. Picerni is currently the media's sweetheart, but I don't think he's ready.

Nelsinho and Levir Culpi, on the other hand, are good coaches - I especially like Nelsinho. Both would be good choices, but we have to give Scolari time. The press hates his guts, but he's competent and I trust he can make it. :thumbsup:

Oswaldo de Oliveira seems to be the most promising of them all. This guy is still a bit unexperienced to fence wits with the world's finest coaches - don't dismiss other countries' strategists - but he definitely deserves a shot at the National Team. His time will come.

Welcome to WSB, Zé - hope you stick around. We need some good Brazilians here.

:star: :star: :star: :star:

[Ze da Fiel]

Garrincha,
if you recall, Picerni managed Corinthians way back in 84 or 85 and also took that team to the olympics which got the silver medal. The brazilian job may be the worst of the world, BUT the guy plays like brazilians play. If you read alberto helena jr or juarez suares (i don't know exactly which one wrote it), they said that after the olympics Picerni was asked: What is manging football for you ? and Picerni said: It's not too simple nor too complicated!:) Ok i know that does not mean nothing, but a lot of managers in brazil come with these apocalyptic theories trying to sound very "intelectual" and football is a simple thing....... attack, occupy spaces and don't let your opponent play....Picerni knows that! and he attacks a lot! And after you have managed Corinthains or Flamengo i think your ready for the brazilian job!

Severus,
Romario deserves another title more than baggi or maldini....the man was perfect in his career;)

btw, felipao is starting to mold the team for the world cup...... he needs to get rid of paraiba and pur juninho pernambucano!:)


Garrincha, what's better this board or xtratime?:confused:

[ItalianBoy]

I think that maldini's and Baggio carrer was hella good too. Romario is good but not awesome. Personal.

[england66]

Regarding the national team coach, do you see a younger, past player coaching the team. Wasn't Zico coaching in Japan? Cerezo, Socrates. I would love to see those guys in the mix.

[Ze da Fiel]

Zico was the techinical director in 98
Cerezo is coaching some team in japan and has not made very big in the managerial career, needs more experience in a big club in brazil.
socrates was manager last year in cabo friense (very small club in rio) and stayed for 1 month (if that)
now he wants to get into an administrative role, which i think would suit him better, after all the guy is a bit of a revolutionary bolchevique and will change a lot of things in the sickened way brazilian football has always been ran!

but anyway...i hope Osvaldo de Oliveira is the next manager or Jair Picerni! They will bring back the joy of watching brazil play.......now the joy that we have of brazil playing is just by watching that sacred shirt be on the pitch!

[PFC]

Wasn't Bora Milutinovic rumoured to take over Brazil ?

[Garrincha]

Originally posted by Ze da Fiel
Garrincha, what's better this board or xtratime?:confused:

Oh, WSB easily. XtraTime's mods seem too uptight; I've been there, seen their responses to some lighthearted stuff, and they were too strict for any real conversation to happen. Here in WSB people get away with a lot more, I guess.

The good thing about Xtratime is the huge amount of different people, but most of them are flocking here anyway, so...;)

What can I say? Join the best, forget about the rest. :cool:

[Garrincha]

Originally posted by england66
Regarding the national team coach, do you see a younger, past player coaching the team. Wasn't Zico coaching in Japan? Cerezo, Socrates. I would love to see those guys in the mix.

Falcão was our coach briefly, hired after the Lazaroni failure at WC '90; he stayed for about a year and a half, and was substituted by Parreira - who took us to WC '94, and all the way.

During Falcão's run, many later-successful players were called for the first time - like Cafu, Mauro Silva, Rai... and, unless I'm mistaken, he was the first to call one of Ze da Fiel's idols - Neto, the "Bacon Boy" who ruled on Corinthians' midfield (a very good, and frequently overweight, playmaker).

[Ze da Fiel]

Neto= the golden finger:D :)

do you rmemebr that game garincha in 92? Corinthians were already eliminated and botafogo were qualified, we sent the team by bus instead of plane (great Vicentao said that an eliminated team din't deserve to travel by plane) and all Neto did was complain the whole game and not do nothing, so i htink it was Juarez Suares who said he had a"golden finger".


btw, Falcao was the worst brazilian manager i have ever seen! The only one capable of choosing Careca Biachesi over Bebeto!:eek: :evil: :mad:

[Ze da Fiel]

garrincha,
the first one to call Rai was CArlos Alberto Silva.... x England in 87 in Wembley...... funny enough it was the first time i went to Wembley and i remember that game wuite well..... my family met with Osmar Santos before the game just by Wembley' twin towers!;)

[Alexx]

...so you are actually showing up here, Ze, he he.......

:)

[Ze da Fiel]

there is no a$$eone and friends to read my posts and start teaching him from a game he has never seen!;) :D :D :D


btw, it's good to chat with GArrincha


Alexx, why not move Kafka thread here???:D ;)

[Garrincha]

Originally posted by Ze da Fiel
Neto= the golden finger:D :)

do you rmemebr that game garincha in 92? Corinthians were already eliminated and botafogo were qualified, we sent the team by bus instead of plane (great Vicentao said that an eliminated team din't deserve to travel by plane) and all Neto did was complain the whole game and not do nothing, so i htink it was Juarez Suares who said he had a"golden finger".


I remember the game, but I remember that season even better. Botafogo had a superb team, with Marcio Santos (who was later WC champion in '94) , Válber, Valdeir "the Flash" and Renato "Gaúcho" (who also played for Roma). We thrashed everyone on our way to the finals, while Flamengo stumbled their way to the same finals - and we were clobbered by that sorry excuse for a team! My greatest disappointment in soccer ever. :( :mad: :annoyed: :depressed

Ask any Botafogo supporter, and he'll tell you 1992 is a deep wound in our hearts. Of course, we've smashed Flamengo dozens of times since then (we once beat them with our reserve team, while they had Romario and Savio) . But 1992 is a year that will live on in infamy.

[BatMasterson]

Originally posted by Garrincha


I remember the game, but I remember that season even better. Botafogo had a superb team, with Marcio Santos (who was later WC champion in '94) , Válber, Valdeir "the Flash" and Renato "Gaúcho" (who also played for Roma). We thrashed everyone on our way to the finals, while Flamengo stumbled their way to the same finals - and we were clobbered by that sorry excuse for a team! My greatest disappointment in soccer ever. :( :mad: :annoyed: :depressed

Ask any Botafogo supporter, and he'll tell you 1992 is a deep wound in our hearts. Of course, we've smashed Flamengo dozens of times since then (we once beat them with our reserve team, while they had Romario and Savio) . But 1992 is a year that will live on in infamy.

Yes, but we did not have a good coach. Gil was the coach then. He tried to make the team slow down the moves and the game just to make the clock run. Rembember, Botafogo had the draw advantage. This fact and Flamengo supported for all that people in Maracanã pushing the team to the attack with great speed were fatal for Botafogo.

A better coach would make the team try to dominate the game and attack.

Bye

[Garrincha]

Don't remind me of Gil. The man has a lifetime, one-and-only opportunity to coach a truly powerful squad, and he blows it bad.

Of course, credit must be given to Flamengo's team, I suppose (If only in the name of good sportsmanship). They had Junior, Junior Baiano, Djalminha, Gottardo, Gilmar. What drives me crazy is that we ruled during the entire league, and they were crap the whole time, only picking up some pace in time to reach the finals.

(MAN, it's tough to be a good sport!)
:annoyed: :( :cry: :depressed :mad: :rolling: ;)

[Ze da Fiel]

Garrincha,
Well, in Rio i prefer to see Flamengo win, and my Brother is an anti-flamengo guy..... and i told him before teh game taht Flamengo were gonna completely wip Botafogo taht day. He never beelived me, in the first half i was complately laughing at him, cause my predictions were totally correct.

But the sad thing were that you guys blamend Renato gaucho for that final, only because of the barbecue. I remember before the game "Tata" from bandeirantes interviewed Gaucho and REnato Gaucho and they had said that whoever lost the first game would give a barbecue the following day. I think because nobody really excpetcted a 3x0 victory that the supporters took the wrong way and blamed Renato for teh defeat (which was not his fault at all as the whole team was crap, specially Carlos Alberto Dias who after taht day never played decent football again!)

Anyway, what happened to the great Valdeir? What about Chicao??

"Chicao, chicao, filho da puta , orelhudo e cabecao!":D :D

[Garrincha]

Originally posted by Ze da Fiel
But the sad thing were that you guys blamend Renato gaucho for that final, only because of the barbecue. I remember before the game "Tata" from bandeirantes interviewed Gaucho and REnato Gaucho and they had said that whoever lost the first game would give a barbecue the following day. I think because nobody really excpetcted a 3x0 victory that the supporters took the wrong way and blamed Renato for teh defeat (which was not his fault at all as the whole team was crap, specially Carlos Alberto Dias who after taht day never played decent football again!)

I remember I was devastated by the result of the '92 final; our team had a far superior campaign, we were stronger and clear favourites, and were mercilessly hammered by 3x0 in the first 45 minutes of the first final. We were beaten tactically, our strategy was decimated by Flamengo's team (Led by WC '82/86 midfielder Junior).
Monday morning, with a world-class headache, I read in the newspapers that Botafogo's board of directors fired Renato Gaúcho, the best player in the team. WHAT?!? I thought they had gone insane, and couldn't see how they intended to win the second match by banning the finest striker/playmaker of the team. That hot-headed and irrational move by our directors cost us all chances of recovering from the 3x0 defeat. In the last match, without our main player, the team never managed to return the score, and the championship was lost.


Originally posted by Ze da Fiel
Anyway, what happened to the great Valdeir? What about Chicao??

"Chicao, chicao, filho da puta , orelhudo e cabecao!":D :D

I actually don't know what happened to Chicão, who was negotiated after the lost championship. Valdeir "The Flash"was sold to France's Bordeaux shortly afterwards, where he stayed for a couple of years. The he returned to Brazil, where he played for Flamengo, São Paulo, and several smaller clubs. I beleve he's still playing somewhere in Brazil.

[Rivaldø]

Originally posted by Ze da Fiel
"Chicao, chicao, filho da puta , orelhudo e cabecao!":D :D

Gilmar, Charles, Gottardo, Junior Baiano and Piá; Uidemar, JÚNIOR, Djalminha and Zinho; Paulo Nunes and Gaúcho.

WE THRASHED BOTAFOGO!

Todo mundo tenta, mas só o Flamengo é Penta!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Severus]

Originally posted by Ze da Fiel
Severus,
Romario deserves another title more than baggi or maldini....the man was perfect in his career;)

why to prove to the world that he can actually win one in regulation time ? puhleeze

baggio and maldini are 2 legends, how you can even come up with romario is beyond my comprehension when he's already won. batistuta perhaps but why romario ??????

[Ze da Fiel]

Severus,
i can come up with so many arguments.....but i'll just leave you with one.


- The only man to put the ball under the legs of a certain Franco Baresi and also put him in the floor. I think heplayed 4 times against Baresi, while Batistuta might have played dozens of times....Batistuta never done this and never will, cause he can' get past an ant!

[Severus]

i didn't know you need to be highly skilled to be deserved of a WC. but then again, if he was so great, why didn't he score in the finals ? so what if he made baresi look foolish did you ever think for an instance that baresi was in the twilight of his career ???? obviously not. you only see the world through yellow and blue sunglasses.

i'd like to see him do something like that when franco was priming ? not when he was approaching 40. DUH !

[Joey]

What is that.. baggio more deserving than romario.. nice one.. that really makes me laugh.. because the way i rember it, it was baggio who cost italy the cup in 94 and it was baggio who has made so many club changes since then, because obviuosly he is too good for them.. that isn't to say that romario is a perfect example, becuase he is the one who always comes up with stupid fights with coaches (clubs or nationls) and think that he is brazil's superman, and that a coach can't live with out him.. i basically don't really see either as perfect, but they are world class and no one can argue that. So i think that both really have their strong and weak points, but to say that one is a legend and the other is shit, makes a good impression about the knowledge of the person making the comments. So really no one is more sesserving than the other...:D

[Garrincha]

Originally posted by Joey
i basically don't really see either as perfect, but they are world class and no one can argue that. So i think that both really have their strong and weak points, but to say that one is a legend and the other is shit, makes a good impression about the knowledge of the person making the comments. So really no one is more sesserving than the other...:D

'Nuff said!

[Ze da Fiel]

Severus,
Well second argument: 800 goals....plaease add up all the goals from your heros....can they even get close to the best striker that has ever lived in planet Earth?

Italian football = mediocrity, fear of loss, lack of imagination, lack of skill, boredom, lack of agressivity, etc...etc..

[ItalianBoy]

Ze da fiel, what the fukk are you talking about?
Italian football boring! o yeah! you are one of those dudes that dosent know crap about soccer, even if in BRA, and since they heard that ITA has the best defense they think that they can only do that while in fact we have some of the best strikers in the world and you shouldt talk given that your team lost to Bolivia 3-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Well let me tell you something. Differently from you I can be sportly and say that BRA footbal its pretty good but I just dont get how you can say that ITA football is boring! please, soccer is soccer all over the world, I am tired of people saying SPanish soccer is this and france is this and etc..1 sure one team maybe be more good at somethign than another one, but the point of the game is one. So boring! I dont think so. take this crap for you.


This guy never heard of Mazzola and other great players, he think that Romario is good, pssss. whatever!

[Joey]

Hey hey guys.. no need to dig scars in 2 of the world's mighty soccer nations.. i mean ze, italy are one of the best teams around currently, and they have dozens of great players, .. they may not have a certain phenomen in their tema, but the team as a whole is a solid (all good players) and nothin can be said about that.. i mean at the end, soccer is a team game and not a single one.. so a team can only win if they play as a well organised team with the indvisual talent part of course.

Brazil however don't have that sort of team right now, but that doesn't mena Iitalian boy, that brazil play like Trindid and tobbaco.. because dodn't ever forget that barzil has some of its top players in italy, most famously the "phenmonem" ronaldo. So really the national is one thing and a whole nation is another. I think that brazil do have one of the best leagues when we organise it right, .. plus the 2 nations are almost equal, i mean if italy win the next WC, then we equal... although i help brazil win.. no hard feelings, italian boy..:cool:

[Ze da Fiel]

Italian boy,
i think you have never heard of Mazzola.....well there was 2 the italian one, and then the brazilian one taht went to play for Italy in the 62 WC, as any Brazilian can play for the Azzura!:silly:

Btw, this mazzola = altafini was humiliated by Almir Pernambucaninho (this guy i'm sure you never heard of) in the 63 Intercontinental final between Santos x Milan in Maracana. Almir old Altafani to piss off as he was a traitor.....and piss off was what he did!!:smoking:


Italian Boy ,
have you ever heard of: GErson, Clodoaldo, Zito, ZIco, Adilio, TOninho Cerezo, FAlcao, Julinho Botelho, Socrates, Vladimir, Zizinho, Didi, Pepe, MEngalvio, Coutinho, Ademir da Guia, Dudu, Palhinha, etc...etc...etc..etc a legacy of legends that Italian football will NEVER be able to emulate!


Romario = 800 goals.....were is Baggio gonne??:rolleyes: :rolling:

[Severus]

Originally posted by Joey
What is that.. baggio more deserving than romario.. nice one.. that really makes me laugh.. because the way i rember it, it was baggio who cost italy the cup in 94 and it was baggio who has made so many club changes since then, because obviuosly he is too good for them.. that isn't to say that romario is a perfect example, becuase he is the one who always comes up with stupid fights with coaches (clubs or nationls) and think that he is brazil's superman, and that a coach can't live with out him.. i basically don't really see either as perfect, but they are world class and no one can argue that. So i think that both really have their strong and weak points, but to say that one is a legend and the other is shit, makes a good impression about the knowledge of the person making the comments. So really no one is more sesserving than the other...:D

whoever said romario was $hit stupid ?

secondly, baggio played that final on a leg and a half, in case you were born yesterday.

[Severus]

Originally posted by Ze da Fiel
Severus,
Well second argument: 800 goals....plaease add up all the goals from your heros....can they even get close to the best striker that has ever lived in planet Earth?

Italian football = mediocrity, fear of loss, lack of imagination, lack of skill, boredom, lack of agressivity, etc...etc..

and how many times has he faced an italian defence ? once, twice the most ? i don't care how many goals he can score in a league or continent where defending is often left on the backburner. versus italy, he's yet to score .... and no ... penalties don't count ahahahaha !!!! face it, your logic is senseless, but then again, so are you.

ciao

[Ze da Fiel]

Severus,
how manytimes has your baggio scored against us? NONE ANd he did play twice!:mad:

So what he only played against italian defenses a few times? He played in the spanish legue and was top scorer there, and did better than anyone that has played in both leagues. ALso the guy is an icon of brazilian football, something that NONE of Brazilians that play in Europe are today!

Severus,
go back to your italian forum, discuss better ways of how to prevent attack, and better ways of how a team can bore people to death in a football game. Also discuss why Italians can change football from a beautiful joyful game into something really boring...... the art of defending and not making an attempt to score goals!

[Severus]

firstly, i never questioned romario's abilities. this is something you obviously made up. i started this because IMO, baggio and maldini are the most deserved of the WC because they haven't won yet. romario has won therefore he's not as deserved despite the fact he scored 800 goals never playing in serie A.

secondly, you sound like a broken record with the bore thing. can't you think of anything more ... creative say ?

get back to me when you can :thumbsup:

[Ze da Fiel]

Severus,

Argument #3:

Romario scored 2 past Italy in the Le Tournoi in 97 when you guys were 2x0 up and had 11 guys in the goal line (so typical, so coward) Btw, your beloved Maldini was playing and so was Cannavaro, and Nesta.

Romario deserves to win a second one more than baggio or Maldini to win 1. As Cruyff said : "Romario is unmatched in the 90's"

[Severus]

well that's your opinion. i think a more sensible person would disagree though considering baggio and maldini are 2 of the greats that have ever played the game.

as for "le tournoi", i don't remember the azzurri playing brasil ever since 1994 in any match. i could be wrong but does anyone else remember this alleged match taking place resulting in a 2-2 draw ?

[ItalianBoy]

Ze da fiel, I was answering to your Italian soccer crap answer. yes I do know those players and you forgot Vava! and Passarinho! Garrincha! great players for sure but dont forget. some people called Piola, Mazzola, Zoff, Riva, Rivera, Facchetti, Boninsegna, Picchi, Curi, Cabrini, Scirea, Rossi, Burgnich, etc etc etc. ;) I am not saying that BRA sucks I said that your Italian+ mediocre footbal is a load of crap.

and yes Bra ITA was played and they tied 3-3, thats why now the scores between the teams are 5 wins for Italy and 5 for Brazil and 4 drws. Not bad.

[ItalianBoy]

http://www.calciomercato.com/Home.htm?INCLUDE=i1CasoSpeciale.htm&TIPO=iCaso.htm&NUM_BLOCCO=1&K1A=BAGGIO&K1B=ROMARIO&K2A=XYZ-ABC&K2B=_&INIZIO=11/09/2001&FINE=12/23/2005

:D :D :D

[Joey]

Originally posted by Severus


whoever said romario was $hit stupid ?

secondly, baggio played that final on a leg and a half, in case you were born yesterday.

Hey bro .. chill out.. i am sorry that i do not have all ur soccer knowledge.. i mean u are a pro bro..:D :silly: :silly:

but by the way.. u suck at english, cuz the way u put it and the way u attack romario and compare him to baggio is like romario is shit and baggio is god.. again that is up to u.. just wanted to get the point across to u mr.perfect

secondly, if baggio isn't fit he doesn't play bro.. if u play in a final and lose and people question your performance, and you as a player say.. oh.. sorry my footy was hurtin me, then you should seriously consider looking for another job.. if you are playing, then you must be able to do your role well... if u can't then you are on the bench, and don't give me shit about fan pressure and team orders and sponsors and all that crap.. another good example is ronaldo.. he is my favourite player, but what he did at the WC was wrong for his everyone who worked hard to get the team to that point.

but the fact remains, that if u think baggio should win the next WC, then i guess he does...;) In the meantime, keep up ur cool predictions man.

[Zek]

i thought Baggio and Romario are players of different style and both great players, they cannot be compared. its like comparing zidane with shevchenko:p. I like baggio more but respect romario.
by the way the 94 final was very boring to me, neither baggio nor romario did well that day mostly due to defensive style of the game. baggio did a terrible mistake with the penalty, but nobody can blame him for that he carried the team up to finals as well as baresi and albertini.

I just put my perspective on your discussion, i would say a bit senseless discussion:D

[Garrincha]

Yes, it is senseless, isn't it? Romario and Baggio are probably the two finest stylists in today's soccer, bar none. Arguing who's better does seem silly.

But to say "Ah, Baggio didn't score because he had a wooden leg" or "Baresi played in semi-comatose state" or "the entire Azzurra squad was braindead" sounds like searching for excuses, doesn't it? I mean, if they were fit, this injury talk is just whining; if they weren't, Italia's coach was retarded and Brazil had nothing to do with it.

What, Italy HAD to play them because, even injured, they were far superior to their reserves? Then, my friend, the problem is an insufficiently strong BENCH. Romario was cut from WC '98 due to injury and we had Bebeto and Ronaldo, which whom we reached the final. If Italia's players weren't fit, they should be substituted, or not fielded at all. And if the Italian coach decided not to do either, it was because his squad didn't have the quality depth someone who wants to win a World Cup NEEDS to have.

It's sad that we had to watch the penalty shots, but ultimately the best team won. The second best didn't, but should be praised for their noble effort - which I say without irony, reaching the final isn't for anyone. Italy's WC '94 squad was strong and inspired respect in all Brazilians, as I'm sure Italy respected their opponent too. Baresi, Maldini, Baggio, all are great players. But we must remember that "deserving" to win a WC and actually winning it are completely different things - as Zico, Puskas, Eusebio, Platini, Van Basten, Cruyff, Cantona, Gullit, Figueroa and Falcão know so well. Many of history's greatest talents never raised a Cup in victory; and if Baggio never achieves his Cup, I believe his name won't be forgotten, just as those I mentioned will not be forgotten. Baggio is a giant, and as a giant he will be remembered. Zico also missed a decisive WC penalty, and is respected to this day.

[ItalianBoy]

To me they are both great and its up to eacvh one of us to think who is. the WC94 final had ITA and BRA playing the same way.

[Severus]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joey
but by the way.. u suck at english, cuz the way u put it and the way u attack romario and compare him to baggio is like romario is shit and baggio is god.. again that is up to u.. just wanted to get the point across to u mr.perfect

first of all, all i originally said was that BAGGIO DESERVES THE WORLD CUP MORE NOW THAN ROMARIO BECAUSE ROMARIO HAS WON ONCE AND ROBY THE LEGEND HAS YET TO WIN ONE !!!!! not that baggio deserved it more then in 1994 but NOW because this is his final season and and he STILL HASN'T WON ! is that so fukking hard to comprehend, or do you need a translator because my english "sucks" ? how can a legend who has won already deserve another one over a legend who still has not one YET is the million $$$ question and still incomprehensible to me.

secondly, if baggio isn't fit he doesn't play bro.. if u play in a final and lose and people question your performance, and you as a player say.. oh.. sorry my footy was hurtin me, then you should seriously consider looking for another job.. if you are playing, then you must be able to do your role well... if u can't then you are on the bench, and don't give me shit about fan pressure and team orders and sponsors and all that crap.. another good example is ronaldo.. he is my favourite player, but what he did at the WC was wrong for his everyone who worked hard to get the team to that point

having a nervous breakdown was wrong ???? boy do you ever stop saying stupid things ? as for baggio, the thing is since you speak without knowing facts is that baggio never said a word about his injury or used it as an excuse. it's me who's doing it for him so if you can't make the distinction shut up !

but the fact remains, that if u think baggio should win the next WC, then i guess he does...;) In the meantime, keep up ur cool predictions man.

again, you make it clear to everyone that you fail to make the distinctions. i never said that i think he should win in this thread. i just believe he's the most deserved. are we finally clear now ?

[Severus]

What, Italy HAD to play them because, even injured, they were far superior to their reserves? Then, my friend, the problem is an insufficiently strong BENCH. Romario was cut from WC '98 due to injury and we had Bebeto and Ronaldo, which whom we reached the final. If Italia's players weren't fit, they should be substituted, or not fielded at all. And if the Italian coach decided not to do either, it was because his squad didn't have the quality depth someone who wants to win a World Cup NEEDS to have

really, have you ever heard of gianfranco zola and giuseppe signori before ? 2 pretty DECENT strikers back then i'd say no ? well they were on the bench yet sacchi i guess never noticed them. i guess he forgot that signori was the leading scorer in serie A that year. it wasn't our depth that killed us, it was sacchi and his penchant for never fielding a consistent group of starters.

[Garrincha]

Sev, I KNOW Italia had a good bench; they're Italia, fer cryin' out loud! :rolleyes: What I meant is, for a less-than-fit player to be fielded, either the bench was weak, or the coach was unable to find his own arse with both hands - which apparently was the case.

[Ze da Fiel]

Btw,
The brazilian central defenders were all subs...... Aldair was the 4th reserve and Marcio Santos was called up late in the world cup because Ricardo Gomes, Mozer and Ricardo Rocha all got injured!

So if yu guys had injuries , we had them too!


Severus,
I think that a guy that nows about fotball and is not so blinded my Serie A would understand what i said!

[Ivan]

hahhahah, amazing - Severus has managed to get in a fight ever with a guy I personally know! Za de fiel ;)

hey, this severus guy is a complete moron, his goal on this board is to go from forum to forum and piss off everybody possible. Don't mind his ignorance too much :D

[Ze da Fiel]

Ivan,
the onjly problem of Severus s when he looks at our glorious shirt he sees 4 stars, and then he wonders were those stars came from.

When he finally anlyzes he notices that half of them came from beating the forever boring Nostra Italia!:smoking: :silly: :kiss:

I LOVE ITALY, specially in world cup finals........:kiss: :kiss: :heart:

[ItalianBoy]

Sure ze da fiel, keep reasuroing your self that we are BORING! at at least we made it to the WC and you guys are still not sure! o yeah, didnt you guys just lost 3-1? but yeah, I mean when you play such good soccer huh! please, keep the lies to yourself ze da fiel! you are the only one that wants to belive them!
Yeah I love BRA too! Especially the booties of the chicks in Ipanema! ;)

[Ivan]

Shut up Italianboy... go look at that internet site of the Italian model, cuz that's as close as you'll ever get to banging a chick that good looking :silly: :D

[ItalianBoy]

I like to see different ypes of jelousy around you know, :silly:
They are the best huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D :D :smoking: ;)

[Joey]

Originally posted by Ivan

hey, this severus guy is a complete moron, his goal on this board is to go from forum to forum and piss off everybody possible. Don't mind his ignorance too much :D

Yeah i agree.. he thinks he is a legend, and we are like all 3 year old kids who have just got a soccer ball for our birthday.. he proably is this low life loser who has nothin else to do but piss ppl off.

[ItalianBoy]

Well I think you guys take this too seriously. I mean I personally that Ivan and others in this MB always try to piss people off just for the hell of it. at least SEV's post make sense!

[Ze da Fiel]

well,
he said that Romario had never scored past italians...... then i showed him that Romario humiliated an italian legend, and scored 2 goals in the same defense that italy has today......so italin boy his posts do not make all that sense.....however i must admit they have a somewhat good backing!

[Joey]

Originally posted by ItalianBoy
Well I think you guys take this too seriously. I mean I personally that Ivan and others in this MB always try to piss people off just for the hell of it. at least SEV's post make sense!

Hey italian boy.. ur karama is droping badly... i think u should mind urself of this useless disscution and stop defending severnus... i think that is the only thing he does best..:D ;)

I think you should go back writing those good old articles man,.. remeber that trashing of zidane by u.. i think that is the best thing u ever said man..

and finally may the best team win in the next WC.. may that wither be Italy or Brazil..:D

[Ivan]

With the current standard of teams that have qualified for the WC, there are really not that many teams that look like a threat to win the WC.

Basically if Brazil can beat Argentina and the African All-Star Team (France), they have a good chance of winning the WC for the 23rd time ;) :D

[Ze da Fiel]

Ivan,
do you think this WC will be even more "equal" than the last one?

It looks like it will be!

[Ivan]

Yea, it probably will be, especially now since Yugoslavia didn't qualify ;):D :D :rolleyes: :cry: :mad: :silly:

[Severus]

Originally posted by Ze da Fiel
well,
he said that Romario had never scored past italians...... then i showed him that Romario humiliated an italian legend, and scored 2 goals in the same defense that italy has today......so italin boy his posts do not make all that sense.....however i must admit they have a somewhat good backing!

wow grasping at straws there aren't ya LOL ? first you praise romario for making a 40 year old baresi look stupid then you go all off in a rant because romario scored 2 goals in a friendly which allegedly took place ? why didn't he score in the finals in 94 ? that's what i meant about scoring vs us. not in a friendly or some charity event ... in a WC MATCH but obviously you are just too shallow to make the distinction.

and yes our D probably is virtually the same as the one you faced in the friendly ... only difference is that cannavaro and nesta were 4 years younger and less experienced.

anyway, forget it. don't bother replying because you make no sense ... romario deserves to win the WC again over 3 legends who HAVE NEVER WON: baggio, maldini and bati because he scored 800 goals and made baresi look stupid when the italian international was almost 40, and lastly, because he's already won one :confused:

sure thing boss :)

[Severus]

furthermore, despite romario having 800 goals, baggio has 9 WC goals while romario has 7.

[OAnimal]

Originally posted by Ivan
Yea, it probably will be, especially now since Yugoslavia didn't qualify ;):D :D :rolleyes: :cry: :mad: :silly:

Don't worry Ivan. We'll try to save the face for all ex-YU republics, since Croatia will go out in the 1st round. :D:D:D

[OAnimal]

Originally posted by Severus

anyway, forget it. don't bother replying because you make no sense ... romario deserves to win the WC again over 3 legends who HAVE NEVER WON: baggio, maldini and bati because he scored 800 goals and made baresi look stupid when the italian international was almost 40, and lastly, because he's already won one :confused:


It is senseless discussion, which player deserves more to win the World Cup. Don't you think that, for example, George Weah deserves to win it?? But unfortunately, he won't even play in the World Cup, imagine winning it. Don't you think Edgar Davids, Hierro, Oliver Kahn deserve to win the World Cup??

And although I agree, that Baggio, Maldini and Batistuta may deserve to win the Cup, I hope they will never win it, because:

Go Slovenija and Brazil! ;)

[Garrincha]

Originally posted by Severus
furthermore, despite romario having 800 goals, baggio has 9 WC goals while romario has 7.

Yeah, I'll bet Romario is devastated for not having more WC goals than Roberto "Goalmouth In The Sky" Baggio.
:D :D :D :D
All he has to confort him is a World Cup trophy...:rolleyes: Ah, well... While Baggio has 9, count'em NINE World Cup goals!!!!! WOW! I'm really impressed. AND he has talent for baseball as well - that wasn't a penalty shot, it was a Home Run!

And let's be honest here: Who CARES if Romario wins another WC or not? The man already WON one, while Baggio and his teammates watched in awe.

Or maybe Baggio did't watch at all - after all, he was aiming for the stars that day... :D :cool: ;)

[Ivan]

Originally posted by OAnimal

Don't worry Ivan. We'll try to save the face for all ex-YU republics,


Make us proud Slovenija !!! :D :D :D :D


I'd love to see Brazil vs Italy in the World Cup next year ;) I don't know if Brazil is really that bad (as they showed in the qualifying). Italy will probably get to at least the QF with results such as 0-0, 1-0, 1-1, 0-0 (winning on penalties) etc....

[OAnimal]

Originally posted by Ivan

Make us proud Slovenija !!! :D :D :D :D


We'll try to.



Italy will probably get to at least the QF with results such as 0-0, 1-0, 1-1, 0-0 (winning on penalties) etc....

Unfortunately I think you are right. With their cowardish style of playing, that makes every true football fan sick. I hope they'll meet France or Argentina soon in the knock-out stage. Sooner Italy goes out, happier I am. ;)

[Joey]

i am gettin tired of ppl and ex stars saying the wc final wil be an argentina-france final, or a argentina-italy final or an italy-england final.. bluh bluh...

i mean all of them keep brushing brazil away as amybe a sengal or a china.. what the hell are they thinking.. when the wc comes we will be ready to kick ass and show those ass***** to respect their greats.. i think these ex-stars have got lots of time on thier hands and need to find a hobby, becuase if they weer ture stars they would know that each of the 32 countires that go to the wc wants to win... each and everyone and each one ahs a very good chance, .. i mean croatia were 3rd in the last WC !!

its all about suprises.. and thats why its fun.

[ItalianBoy]

some what good? cant accept the truth?

and I aint defending anyone, I tink that sevs post "usually" have sense. Stay out? why? I like to post and my karma is dropping cuz the only way people like Ivan and his friends can get me down is by letting me have bad karma.

[Severus]

All he has to confort him is a World Cup trophy... Ah, well... While Baggio has 9, count'em NINE World Cup goals!!!!! WOW! I'm really impressed. AND he has talent for baseball as well - that wasn't a penalty shot, it was a Home Run!

home run ? i think field goal would've been a little more appropriate since you don't hit home runs with your feet.

as for his tally, it was just to emphasize that he deserves the WC more. i thought i should clear that up for you before you snap on me again like my ragging girlfriend does but i guess it was too late.

[Garrincha]

Of course, I understand what you meant. MY point was, and is: "deserving" has NOTHING to do with it. Soccer isn't about who "deserves more" it's often random and decided by chance. And believe me, I have cursed that fact once or twice in my life. But a fact it is.

Puskas, Cruyff, Platini and Zico never won a Cup, and they're not less important because of that. Many mediocre players won WCs, and that doesn't make them significant. Baggio has merits, he's a special player who stands aout among his contemporaries. And if he never wins a WC, hey, he's in good company. ;)

And trust me, I say this without irony.

[Ze da Fiel]

Severus,
i take back that your posts make sense....you are really stupid!

BAggio scored 9 goals...but at least 2 of them were penalities. PLus he played in so many WC games...... 7 in 90 Wc, 7 in Wc94, and i don't know how many in 98.

ROmario of course only scored 1 penalty and that was in the penalty shoot out, which does not count for the tally....and only played 7 games totally fit (he did play in WC 90 but he could not even walk properly..things of Lazaroni)

Baresi may be 40 years old now, but when ROmario dribbled him back in 92 he was 9 years younger!.

The friendly did exist.....Italy were 2x0 up with goals of teh most overated player the world will ever see DEL PIERO!:o THen the king ROmario put the ball were it deserved...in the back of the net of a piled Italian defense and there favourite sons...Maldini, Cannavaro, and Nesta!:silly: :)

Severus, before you talk to me, please make a revision of facts, and start knowing what you talk.......otherwise you'll just embarass yourself my friend!:p :smoking:

[Garrincha]

No, Severus just isn't fond of checking facts. He prefers to insult whoever he's talking to as substitute for actual arguments. And when you prove him wrong, he usually says you're losing your temper. After a while, it becomes amusing to watch, y'know? predictable and all. It's kinda sad, as he's not really stupid, just hot-headed, IMO.

And I must say I'm disappointed that Severus hasn't shared his opinion on our recent discovery: What Baggio was actually aiming for way back in '94 - that big, huge goalmouth in the sky... :D

I hope the response won't involve insults - but maybe I'm being too optimistic. :cool:

[Ze da Fiel]

Garrincha,
Did baggio ever get that contract to play for UCLA???:rolleyes: :smoking:

[Garrincha]

UCLA wasn't good enough - Baggio was aiming for the stars.
:rolling: ;)

[OAnimal]

I heard Chicago Bears from NFL wanted to sign him. But as they sucked at that time, they were refused. :D:D

[Severus]

Originally posted by Garrincha
Of course, I understand what you meant. MY point was, and is: "deserving" has NOTHING to do with it.

but this is what we're arguing. it was you lot who turned it into a baggio vs romario slugfest ... not me. i just said that baggio is the most deserved player right now for the WC. i don't care if platini or zico went cupless. i'm talking about baggio in 2002. not the 80's. i just wish you'd actually read what i post rather than relying on your silly misconceptions of myself OK thanks.

and as for this:

No, Severus just isn't fond of checking facts. He prefers to insult whoever he's talking to as substitute for actual arguments. And when you prove him wrong, he usually says you're losing your temper. After a while, it becomes amusing to watch, y'know?

i find this hilarious. you're most recent snap attack was when i poitned out that baggio has more goals in the WC than romario. i don't know where you proved me wrong there. however, prior to that i accused you of bitchin' but the thing was, we were never in a debate at all. go backtracking bud cos your theory holds no water.

[Garrincha]

Originally posted by Severus
i find this hilarious. you're most recent snap attack was when i poitned out that baggio has more goals in the WC than romario. i don't know where you proved me wrong there.

"Prove you wrong"? Who wanted to "prove you wrong"? Not me, Sev. I was just poiting out how silly it was to compare who has more goals when one is a WC winner and the other is not. Ask Baggio if he'd like to trade all those 9 goals for a WC title. Care to bet on what he would prefer? ;)

And it wasn't technically a "snap attack" - I was ridiculing Baggio's 9 goals(not to mention the title of his autobiography), in case you didn't get it. :)

[Severus]

Originally posted by Garrincha


"Prove you wrong"? Who wanted to "prove you wrong"? Not me, Sev. I was just poiting out how silly it was to compare who has more goals when one is a WC winner and the other is not.

EXACTLY !!!!!!! and that's why baggio is more deserved of a FRRRRIGGGGGGGIN WC !!! because romario has won one and baggio has not ! that's what i was arguing with ze da fiel about. but then you lot start with the insults ... what would you like me to do ... stand there and take 'em ? that joker started naming all of romario's accomplishments. i did the same for baggio. then you start with "yeah but if you ask baggio what he'd rather have ..." LIKE I DON'T KNOW what baggio would rather have !

as for this ...

And it wasn't technically a "snap attack" - I was ridiculing Baggio's 9 goals(not to mention the title of his autobiography), in case you didn't get it
as for this ...

yeah sure. just like you didn't snap on me when i was sticking up for trezeguet or when i made that smart ass remark of brasil's inability to produce greats like before earlier in this thread. but one question for you, why would you ridicule baggio's 9 WC goals ? like everyone has 9 goals in the WC you know ...

as for the title of his book ... i dunno, maybe he's trying to be funny. it is odd though and worth the ridicule. i don't see how 9 WC goals are though considering romario the individual doesn't have 9, even though he was a member of a team winning the ultimate prize in a scoreless draw which went to PK's :)

[Sr.Enciclopédia]

Careca não é só o dono do Campinas Futebol mas tambem é o Presidente do Clube,é incrivel que em 1982 quando Zico estava no de sua carreira auge justo logo Careca se contundi e 1986 desta vez os papeis se inverteram e quanto Zico tentava se recuperar ,o Careca estava em ponto de bala na seleção,é uma pena que esses super craques nunca jogaram integralmente justos em copa do mundo(na verdade,jogaram sim,foi contra a polônia e França,Zico só entrava em campo no 2ºtempo nos 15 minutos finais)