What do u think regarding Pele's comments about the national teams these days..?

[Joey]

SAO PAULO, September 25 (DS) - Football king Pele criticized severely the present level of Brazilian soccer, comparing it with the recent successes experienced by the Argentine and French. He said that if some measures are not undertaken immediately, the high level of Brazilian soccer might disappear into mediocrity.
While the same players have been training in Argentine national team during a six-month period, the Brazilians haven't managed yet to call up worthy players from famous European clubs. Moreover, the game does not get on in the squad, because each new coach brings ten new players, making substitutes almost in every match.
Pele thinks that World and European champions France have firmly established themselves in football, and France Under-21, who beat the Brazilians, is a good example to follow. It seems that there is no Brazilian football player after Pele and Zico to take example of.


I for one totatly agree, and couldn't put it better. I love Roni and he is my favroiute player, but now is not time to start chopping and reseambling the team... Elbere is also very good as can be seen in his Byrun Club.

[Garrincha]

I think these retired players often reveal themselves to be incredibly stupid. I mean, the talent they displayed in the game obviously doesn't carry over to their lives off the game. They retire, and their fans keep looking up to them, but in real life they are generally misinformed, ill-advised and widely uneducated. Pelé has been spouting gibberish about every topic conceivable ever since he abandoned soccer. In the '70s, Pelé put his foot in his mouth HARD by saying "the Brazilian people aren't prepared to vote"- in a context of military dictatorship, when there were NO elections and his opinion might have some weight! Since then he's given his "king-of-football" opinion on a variety of matters, most of them utter baloney. But the press always gives him the space to mouth off his "regal" opinions on everything.

It's the same with retired players from other countries: George Best is another retired player whose moronic opinions never add anything to debates, but is heard by the media anyway. Maradona, who's obviously brain-dead from excessive dope, every three months announces he's returning to soccer, sometimes as player, sometimes as coach (his latest was saying he'd "accept" to be Boca Juniors' coach if they would have him, which they won't :rolleyes: they're not that stupid). "El Pibe" has also uttered incredibly misinformed remarks about topics such as the Cuban revolution, third world economical policies, Vatican positions on birth-control, and so forth.

Why people care about these guys' opinions is amazing. Was their clear administrative & political thinking the reason they became famous? NO. It was their ability to play ball. Why do I care about a retired striker's views on anything other than how to hit the ball?

Even if it's soccer management or coaching, as is the case in Pelé's comments. This guy has NO training in management, has NO idea how a club is actually run, has NO clue about anything other than the players' experience. Why is an ex-player qualified automatically to comment on youth squad policies? About the best way to run a first-class team? About the best coaching tactics? Pelé was never a coach, is he qualified to judge coaches technically? It's easy to throw stones when you've never had to do it yourself. Scolari is a successful coach, and so is Bielsa, yet these retired players feel confortable bashing them, from the security of their "legend" positions.

Pelé is a businessman who frequently uses his "public voice" to attack business competitors, and the media treats his words as gospel! He wants to take the current CBF board of directors OUT, as they hate his guts, so he attacks the confederation, the national team, everything. But his words are meaningful because he's Pelé?

Pelé and Maradona live off their (magnificent, glorious, world-cup-winning) image. And this somehow qualifies them to criticize the work of their National Team coaches? WHY? I mean, they're entitled to their opinions just as we are, but if I say Scolari is a hack, it doesn't make the headlines.

Bottom line, if YOU had to pick a coach for YOUR team, would you rather have Maradona or Bielsa? Pelé or Scolari? The retired superstars with big mouths or the proven and successful coaches?

[ItalianBoy]

I agree.
Did you hear Pele'? he said that if BRA dosent Q for the WC2002 they should postpone the WC. CRAZY!
And Maradona saying that Pele' likes Kids and I mean LIKES.
and this not only in soccer but also in other sports.
I think that for ARG I would have Bielsa, he is doing good.
for BRA I have no idea. They are in trouble now, its NOT their moment.
I think like many teams they will get back up, but they need to find a GOOD coahc that has good tattics and dosent call up youngsters so that rich teams will buy them since the play in the BRA national. I think that BRA has many good players that dont get called!

[Garrincha]

Scolari is a good, competent coach, and he may yet build a WC-winning squad out of this shambled eleven Brazil's been fielding.:worried: Brazil does have dozens of talented kids who might "rise to the occasion", were they given the chance. But in this decisive moment we're in - we HAVE to win two matches out of three - we can't call up untested kids. Now is the time for the heavy-hitters; now is when the "big names" in the team must make their presence felt. Scolari isn't the world's best coach, and he certainly sucks at public relations (more than once he punched reporters' lights out, and he's a very large retired defender), but he's perfectly qualified to succeed.

I didn't see the U-17 tournament, so I missed the defeat to France. Saying Brazil was incompetent would be taking away France's credit; but I heard that Brazil's coach had the bright idea of changing three team starters simply to surprise the French coach. Y'know, a kinda "secret strategy "? As it turned out, the team felt the absence of the players...smart move, dude.:rolleyes:

Cheers! :star: :star: :star: :star:

[Joey]

Well guys... I don't think the person who made the comments are the subject here... in other words, i don't care if pele made these comments or the a 4 year old kid.. everyone has his own opinion, but the fact here is that his opinion is not far from the truth.

I think that brazil has a big problam right now, because they can't settle on a good team. That is why they are not communicating well, as some players are way better than and some are more expericensed than others (ie. the team does not match up and flow smoothly).

However, that is not a bad thing, as u have to start at some point, and brazil had 2 years to gel a nice taem together, but till now they are unsure which players are better than others. A good example is Ronaldo.. he is an excellent player but still injured and they want him back.. why.. is there no good forgein or domestic attacker to score some goals (until ronaldo somes back at least).. i mean obviously argentina has found a good formula..

Or is it comitment.. i mean, the players are not commited to the national teams... and maybe that is why scholari called back ronaldo... a man who would put his whole carrer on the line to wear his number 9 shirt..

I am still confused, but i know one thing for sure... Brazil (that menas, any brazilian coash and mangment), need to pick a certain team and STICK TO IT...!!!!

[Rivaldø]

I agree. Brazil has great players, but we're always changing players. We should kidnap 25 players and take them to a secret underground hideout where their clubs wont get them back, then train for 3 months! THEN we'd have a great team! :D

[Mato]

Brasil will always have good players, and enough of´em to make it to WC. The current "crisis" may be the cause of the increasing phisycal playing, which makes it harder to actually play instead of running around like crazy and passing the ball to side in order to send it flying towards the the goal area searching for a "header". I think Brasil probably got stuck in time, and maybe it´s time to roll up the sleeves like the rest of the teams, and get some real work done organizing the team. Today we can see Honduras beating Brasil, or Ireland taking down Holland. Was that considered "normal" 10-15 years ago?? Brasil will probably qualify, but if not, maybe it shouldn´t surprise us that much (it rightfully would), since soccer has changed so much (for better or worse?? up to you) in the past 10 years. It seems Brasil is not inmune to the ups and downs of football (ask Uruguay, Hungary, Poland,etc.)
As for Pele´s remarks, well, what can you expect from a guy who like Maradona, doesn´t have a real education (I don´t know in Pele´s case, but Maradona didn´t finish high school) and all he knows about is playing soccer, which won´t actually make you a good coach or have an idea about tactics. I´ll grant Pele has a keener eye for business, he´s quite a politician, smarter than Maradona in that sense (not a good one) but I won´t elaborate more since i think Garrincha has put it more than fine.

[ROM2]

I dunno, guys I think you're being a bit harsh on Pele' and Maradona they are entitled to their opinions and as ex soccer players they must have some understanding of tactics coaching etc...Brazilain soccer is rotting at the moment and Scolari is not the saviour of Brazilian soccer he's on record as saying that Brasil should play more like Europeans :shocked: - no thanks! :alien:

[Garrincha]

Originally posted by ROM2
I dunno, guys I think you're being a bit harsh on Pele' and Maradona they are entitled to their opinions and as ex soccer players they must have some understanding of tactics coaching etc...

Uh, WHY do you think Pele and Maradona must have coaching knowledge? They've NEVER seriously done it - why are they more qualified to evaluate coaching decisions than the coaches themselves? The experience is completely alien for them. Coaching is a hard job, and an ungrateful one because EVERYONE feels entitled to criticize, even when not qualified.

I repeat: retired players know everything about the player's experience, NOT about the coach's job. Tactical knowledge doesn't "come naturally" for footballers, no matter what retired old has-beens who get TV commentator jobs tell you. They're just giving their uninformed opinion, which is their right - but still uninformed and, ultimately, harmful to true professionals, as it carries weight with the supporters, and can get the professionals fired.

These retired superstars all feel untouchable in the safety of their "legend status"; who can compare with the golden idols of yesteryear? They get all indignant and outraged if THEIR achievements are questioned. But they never feel unconfortable mouthing off whatever comes to mind about other people's work.

[ROM2]

Originally posted by Garrincha


Uh, WHY do you think Pele and Maradona must have coaching knowledge? They've NEVER seriously done it - why are they more qualified to evaluate coaching decisions than the coaches themselves?

:rolling: Any player who has played at any level will have even rudimentary knowledge of coaching becos they've been coached, besides there's no mystery to coaching - there are decent coaching manuals in any decent library. I know for sure that Maradona has managed a team and I don't recall saying that they were more qualified to coach than qualified coaches, but just becos a person is qualified to do a job doesn't mean their any good at it!

[Garrincha]

Maradona has, in fact, managed a team, but unless my memory betrays me (which wouldn't be at all surprising :D ) it was a small team, to whom Diego's media presence was the most important part of the deal. A superstar like Diego attracts media attention, and therefore may make it easier to attract sponsors. I also recall his tenure as coach was mercifully short-lived and a complete flop.

What I'm saying is, these retired players' opinions are always on the papers, and they're not any more qualified to make uninformed opinions than you and me - but no newspaper pays attention to OUR uninformed blabbering, because we don't sell papers. :drool: Of course, anybody can pick up books on strategy - but Pelé and Maradona aren't criticizing blokes who picked up library books on strategy, they're mouthing off against proven, successful, hand-picked professional coaches. These coaches ARE better at coaching than either egomaniac ex-footballer, no matter what their respective arse-kissers tell them.

I wouldn't object to a retired footballer criticizing modern footballers - they have the experience and the knowledge to see where today's professional players are good or bad. But I DO NOT think they're actually capable of doing a solid technical analisys of professional coaches' gameplans.

I've been to professional teams' training facilities, and I've seen the layouts of specific match strategies laid out by coaches - believe me, it's WAY more complicated and elaborate than I had ever thought possible. We fans may think we know what it takes to be a coach, but it's really, really complex.

After a defeat, we can all disregard a coach as "too defensive" or something easy like that. But in reality the team may have lost simply because the other coach came up with a specific dead-ball trap that took the other team by surprise, an unexpected player on the unexpected place and WHAM!, the game is lost. More frequently than not, games are lost and won on details.

But our retired superstars always simplify it with their self-important opinions: "Scolari calls only mediocre players" (which also shows a complete lack of respect for today's professionals, and utter lack of ethics), "Bielsa is too conservative" (which Diego has said, denoting a complete absence of coherent tought). It's easy to throw rocks at others when you're safely stablished as an "untouchable legend", who can't be criticized back.

[Joey]

Hey rom5... ur are pretty unlucky u know... haha

i mean its ur first posts and already u are getting into an opinion derby :D :D with garrincha... he is pretty hard to tackle u know, and quite dominant in his opions as u can seef rom his posts.. that is not to say that he is wrong of course... but gar, knows alot about soccer and knows that every plan has a weak point and so does he.. but who can hold him to it...

:D :D :cool:

Just kidding Garrinha ;)

[Mato]

Maradona actually coached two teams here in Argentina. Firstly, he took a job in a small provincial club called Mandiyu, and afterwards he coached Racing Club, one of the 5 major teams here in Argentina.
As for Diego´s experience in coaching, I can tell you this much: sometimes his teams sucked, sometimes they didn´t, but they never got to be GOOD, or at least promising.
I think an ex-player can have some tactical knowledge, specially about the position in which they used to play, but not a relevant one about the team as a whole.
I mean, I could read about tactics, hell, i can even take a DT course and get an official AFA certificate, but that doesn´t mean I´ll be in the position to feel an equal to any succesful, proven coach.
Maradona IS entitled to his own opinion, the thing is that his opinion may be actually more accurate than mine (since I´ve played less that 10 times in an eleven size field) but hardly wiser than any coach with at least 2 years of experience.

[ROM2]

Originally posted by Garrincha

What I'm saying is, these retired players' opinions are always on the papers, and they're not any more qualified to make uninformed opinions than you and me - but no newspaper pays attention to OUR uninformed blabbering, because we don't sell papers. :drool: Of course, anybody can pick up books on strategy - but Pelé and Maradona aren't criticizing blokes who picked up library books on strategy, they're mouthing off against proven, successful, hand-picked professional coaches. These coaches ARE better at coaching than either egomaniac ex-footballer, no matter what their respective arse-kissers tell them.

I wouldn't object to a retired footballer criticizing modern footballers - they have the experience and the knowledge to see where today's professional players are good or bad. But I DO NOT think they're actually capable of doing a solid technical analisys of professional coaches' gameplans.

I've been to professional teams' training facilities, and I've seen the layouts of specific match strategies laid out by coaches - believe me, it's WAY more complicated and elaborate than I had ever thought possible. We fans may think we know what it takes to be a coach, but it's really, really complex.

After a defeat, we can all disregard a coach as "too defensive" or something easy like that. But in reality the team may have lost simply because the other coach came up with a specific dead-ball trap that took the other team by surprise, an unexpected player on the unexpected place and WHAM!, the game is lost. More frequently than not, games are lost and won on details.

But our retired superstars always simplify it with their self-important opinions: "Scolari calls only mediocre players" (which also shows a complete lack of respect for today's professionals, and utter lack of ethics), "Bielsa is too conservative" (which Diego has said, denoting a complete absence of coherent tought). It's easy to throw rocks at others when you're safely stablished as an "untouchable legend", who can't be criticized back.

:angel: I understand wot you're saying to a certain degree but I'd be surprised and disappointed if players players of their calibre didn't have a strong opinion on coaching methods and coaches - if an ex-pro has been properly trained then I see no reason why they can't analyse games or evaluate players - that's the problem with modern soccer it's become too complex when it's a very simple game, also I happen to agree with Pele's and Maradona's respective opinions on the methods of their current national coaches.

[ROM2]

Originally posted by Joey
Hey rom5... ur are pretty unlucky u know... haha

i mean its ur first posts and already u are getting into an opinion derby :D :D with garrincha... he is pretty hard to tackle u know, and quite dominant in his opions as u can seef rom his posts.. that is not to say that he is wrong of course... but gar, knows alot about soccer and knows that every plan has a weak point and so does he.. but who can hold him to it...

:D :D :cool:

Just kidding Garrinha ;)

:smoking: Hey Dude, no problemo - me and Gar are just touching base, nothing heavy, that comes later :p!!!!!

[Garrincha]

Originally posted by ROM2

:angel: I understand wot you're saying to a certain degree but I'd be surprised and disappointed if players players of their calibre didn't have a strong opinion on coaching methods and coaches - if an ex-pro has been properly trained then I see no reason why they can't analyse games or evaluate players - that's the problem with modern soccer it's become too complex when it's a very simple game, also I happen to agree with Pele's and Maradona's respective opinions on the methods of their current national coaches.

The game became complex because of the ever-increasing elaboration of defensive systems - defense and marking are what makes it all so complicated.

And I'm not saying these ex-players are totally clueless, I'm saying they make it their business to verbally assault professional coaches - which is easy and one-sided, because the coaches certainly cannot respond and criticize the retired players, can they? Imagine if Bielsa began to mouth off against Maradona! Perish forbid! Nonono, the retired superstars are untouchable! Their past is history and their glory is the glory of all their country.

So they can't be criticized, but they can criticize anyone, and say any deranged gibberish that comes to their minds. Is that fair? No, it's just very easy and convenient. Their deranged gibberish doesn't have to be actually put to the test of actual matches. They don't have to actually select their squad members, they don't have the responsibility of winning or qualifying their countries, of excluding talented guys from the 23 players' list. The coaches HAVE to make the choices, they hold all the responsibility. If Brazil wins, it's all due to the players' talent, but if they lose, Scolari is incompetent. What does Pelé have to lose? It's easy to throw rocks at someone who has to make difficult choices - if he leaves out Riquelme he's "conservative", if he calls up Riquelme he's leaving out some other talent, and therefore is wrong too.

I think it's way too easy to point the finger when you're above criticism. And in Pelé's particular case, his commercial interests and personal vendetta with CBF take away his credibility as an independent critic, IMHO.

[ROM2]

:smoking: I dunno, man. It seems it's a personal thing you've got against those guys - anyway ,to me, football is about players not coaches - no players no game. Players make football not coaches - coaches just get in the way. Look at the current state of world football - sterile due to tactics and blackboard coaches.

[Garrincha]

It's not personal, really - I just think these guys' opinions are overrated. Pelé particularly almost never says anything intelligent, yet he's constatly called upon to comment on everything, and his opinions are always over-simplified gibberish, fruit of a barely-educated man who has been hearing that he's a genius for FAR too long - the same with Maradona; it just dulls their self-criticism, y'know? They begin to BELIEVE they are extremely insightful. And it just annoys me to see idiotic opinions treated as a higher truth, because the idiot who spilled those opinions was a successful professional athlete in the '60s, or in the '70s or '80s.

It annoys me to see idiocy treated as keen insight because of who SAID the idiocy. It annoys me in literature, politics, arts, AND soccer. So it's not personal, is it? I don't think so.

Ah, well. I really think I have said more than enough on this subject. I doubt anyone cares to read yet another rant, too. So I'll spare you guys. ;)

[ROM2]

Originally posted by Garrincha
It's not personal, really - I just think these guys' opinions are overrated. Pelé particularly almost never says anything intelligent, yet he's constatly called upon to comment on everything, and his opinions are always over-simplified gibberish, fruit of a barely-educated man who has been hearing that he's a genius for FAR too long - the same with Maradona; it just dulls their self-criticism, y'know? They begin to BELIEVE they are extremely insightful. And it just annoys me to see idiotic opinions treated as a higher truth, because the idiot who spilled those opinions was a successful professional athlete in the '60s, or in the '70s or '80s.

It annoys me to see idiocy treated as keen insight because of who SAID the idiocy. It annoys me in literature, politics, arts, AND soccer. So it's not personal, is it? I don't think so.

Ah, well. I really think I have said more than enough on this subject. I doubt anyone cares to read yet another rant, too. So I'll spare you guys. ;)

I hear you bro - Former top atheletes can bahave like their word is the Gospel. However, is there really any need to insult them to make your point?...that's why I assumed it's a personal thing, after all I'm sure you marvelled at the ability of Pele' and Maradona so maybe you can cut them some slack.
Don't you think Pele' has a point when he complains that Scolari is picking average players?...and he's not he only Brazilian player to say that - Rivaldo implied it, Alex and Vampeta were explicit.
Also, don't you think the Argy manager should consider playing Requeleme, Ortega and Aimer in the same squad playing 2 in a game and 1 as a sub?:smoking:

[Garrincha]

Well, I suppose I did come off too aggressive about Pelé and Maradona earlier - I must've been in a bad day when I wrote it. I don't hate either of them; I personally hope El Pibe will one day overcome his personal demons, as I know how hard addiction can be - I'm currently in the process of cleansing myself, as I quit smoking four months ago :D .:)

And of course, disregarding Pelé's and Maradona's opinions outright would be just as unreasonable as treating them as gospel. So let's take the points you mentioned and analyze them, shall we?

Don't you think Pele' has a point when he complains that Scolari is picking average players?...and he's not he only Brazilian player to say that - Rivaldo implied it, Alex and Vampeta were explicit.
Also, don't you think the Argy manager should consider playing Requeleme, Ortega and Aimer in the same squad playing 2 in a game and 1 as a sub?

To call a young player "average" is risky, as they can prove you wrong in time; players aren't static entities, they can grow and develop, and today's apparently only-reasonable player can demonstrate to be a high-quality in a couple of years. Vampeta should know that: He was considered "average" or even less for a long time, until he exploded to the world in Luxemburgo's Corinthians (where he was Brazilian champion twice and World Club Champion). Four years ago, calling up Vampeta would be absurd, NOW it's a perfectly reasonable option. Remember, people don't have tags on them saying "reasonable player" or "world-class player"; players GROW to be stars, or don't. Once, Dunga was considered "average", as well as Socrates, and a lot of others.

I also think Alex and Vampeta demonstrate a complete lack of professional ethics when they call other, contemporary players, which whom they may yet play, "average". If another player called Alex a wimp with no balls (which is what supporters often call him) , HE would be angry and would think it was unethical and rude. But it's OK for a player to call another "average"? I think it's disrespectful.

About the Argentina coach - hey, the man DOES have plenty of options, but the coach's job IS to choose, right? And he's producing the desired results, right? If he obeyed those who want Riquelme, SOME player who's currently playing would exit the team - and then the supporters would want that player back in the team. The coach HAS to choose, and that's what Bielsa is doing - successfully, we might add. So why not let the man do his job, his way? Riquelme is excellent, but hey, the team is working as it is! Why mess with success? Eventually Riquelme will have his chance. He's not the first world-class player who gets left out of his NT, is he?

[ROM2]

:smoking: I'm a former smoker too, so I understand the situation completely - it's mind over matter.
Dunga and Vampeta were average!!?...I'd prefer to say they were good players who lacked consistency and once they developed that then they were chosen for the selecao...an average player, by nature, can only be average...I think.
Whether a player should criticise a team who's not up to scratch...I dunno...if you're in a good team and a player isn't good enough and there's better available...well, I'd be inclined to voice my opinion for the betterment of the team.

As for Argentina, I come from the football old school...it's not the win , but how you win...I'd prefer to play well than play boringly and win...I want to see the best players on the pitch...If I had my way all tactics would be abolished for a free-flowing creative game...but, I'm realistic enough to know that modern football isn't like that.

In view of the current result in Bolivia, what in your view is the problem with Brasil's national team?

[Garrincha]

I didn't say Vampeta and Dunga were average, I said they were considered average. But I do believe that tagging a player as "average" can often lead to unfair judgment, as players grow, evolve and can improve with experience.

For example, Owen is currently in blazing form, and I think he has achieved his current level of performance through experience, and learning when to sprint and when to pass - only time gives a player that knowledge, and not all players actually learn.

Defensive players are usually the ones who benefit the most from experience, as they learn the shortcuts that make their jobs easier.

[ROM2]

:smoking: OK - wot about the current Brasil situation I also mentioned in the thread?

[Garrincha]

IMO we have several problems. In no particular order:

- CBF, our confederation, is corrupt and incompetent, and their incompetence leads to sacking and hiring coaches cluelessly. Luxemburgo, who was fired when Brazil was on a very reasonable 2nd place in the qualifiers (behind Argentina, which isn't abnormal; if we were in 1st and ARG in 2nd it wouldn't be shameful for them either) should never have been fired. Hiring Leão was a mistake, he isn't competent enough, but to fire him after less than two months was worse than stupid.

- The European clubs refuse to let players come in time for training; some players arrived in Brazil for the Bolivia match 40 hours before the match, after 10-hour flights. FIFA supports that attitude (which is a problem for all South American teams, but hits us harder because of CBF's disorganization). So the team doesn\t train. Do you know how long we trained for he Bolivia match? 50 minutes.

- The general arrogant attitude by most fans, media and quite a few players, that most opposing teams are "easy" to beat, and that anything less than 5x0 is "humiliating" and "below" Brazilian standards. In today's competitive soccer, disregarding the opposition is a sure recipe for disaster. AND of course, when we win by a "mere" 2x0 against a "lesser" team - which would be ANYBODY who never won a WC, for most sports "journalists" - there's a world of pressure for the coach to be sacked and for the team to change. There's always someone saying we should field 4 or 5 forwards, which would be tactical suicide, but what does the media care about tactical realities?

- Quite a lot of our players are overpaid prima-donnas. Rivaldo, for example, seems to believe the rest of the team works for him, as he's always walking around the field, doing nothing and demanding assists. In Barcelona things may work differently, but in Brazil he's often a dead weight. But there are other examples.

- Of course, we suffer from the increasing exodus of players to Europe: promising kids with little or none experience suddenly fly away, where they often get the bench, and their evolution as players is compromised. When they stay in Brazil for a while before leaving, they usually go to Europe as confident stars who can contribute much more to their teams, and to the NT - a good example would be Roberto Carlos, who was a star in Brazil BEFORE leaving for Europe. Cesar (from Lazio) is an example of someone who left too early.

- Our 4-4-2 tactics are completely outdated and every coach in the world knows how to counter it. We need either a smart tactician who knows how to change tactics during a match - like Luxemburgo and Zagallo - or a new approach, like Scolari's 3-5-2, which I really like.

Imay be forgeting something, but these are the main reasons; I cannot elaborate further because I'm posting from work:D .

[ROM2]

:smoking: Hey, Garrin - that was well written I concur with everything especially the demise of the 4-4-2 and the need for a new system to suit the modern game. However, the purist in me despises Lux, Zagallo and Scolari they, IMHO, are the antichrists of the beautiful game (I know Zag managed the 1970 team, but the players vetoed his excessisve defensive tactics) - I thought Parrera had the best balance of attack and disciplined defence, now that equilibrium has been lost and needs to be aquired again - Leaos was a feeling as opposed to thinking manager which I personally prefer - anyway the 14th of nov is D-day for Brazil.

[Garrincha]

Luxemburgo, defensive? Funny, I see him as a great coach whose main problem is a HUGE ego and a paralysing vanity, which makes him clash with many superstar players. He built the Palmeiras teams that dominated Brazil for most of the '90s, where Zago, Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Cesar Sampaio, Zinho, Rivaldo, Edmundo, Edílson, Luizão and Djalminha played. Those Palmeiras teams were extremely attacking and tactically daring. One might argue that, with that huge amont of talent at his disposal, he NECESSARILY would build offensive tactics - but we all know cases of teams filled with talent that play defensively, or simply play badly. Luxemburgo DOES deserve merit for the construction of those teams. And his attacking approach was very successful.

It's curious to remember now that Luxemburgo's "arch-enemy" was always Luis Felipe Scolari, who had that very physical Gremio team (With Emerson and Jardel) and always beat Luxa's star-studded teams.:rolleyes: Luxemburgo contantly went berserk, he couldn't believe in how frequently Scolari knocked him off competitions. :D These were extremely beautiful games to watch, guys. Considering the huge amount of international-level talent involved, it figures. ;)

Why can't our NT be well-organized tactically as some of our club teams? :cry: :fed-up: :depressed