Srebrenica Massacre 13th Anniversary

[Saraj Fanático]

Today marked one of the darkest days in European history right alongside the Holocaust and so many other tragic events. Today marks the day when Europe failed and the world watched as thousands were killed by the hands of terrorists. Well over 8,000 men and boys were killed by Bosnian Serb Criminals seeking to extinct a religion, people, and culture. What makes it a bigger tragedy is that those lives could have been easily saved by what Europe calls, the peacekeepers. Let us for the well being of humanity never forget this day and this massacre, just like the Holocaust.

Timeline: Siege of Srebrenica
In the summer of 1995, two years after being designated a United Nations Safe Area, the Bosnian town of Srebrenica became the scene of the worst massacre in the Bosnian war.
This is an account of the critical days leading up to the killings.

6 - 8 July 1995: Bosnian Serb forces had laid siege to the Srebrenica enclave, where tens of thousands of civilians had taken refuge from earlier Serb offensives in north-eastern Bosnia.


Survivors from Srebrenica fled to Muslim-held territory
They were under the protection of about 600 lightly armed Dutch infantry forces. Fuel was running out and no fresh food had been brought into the enclave since May.

Serb forces began shelling Srebrenica. Bosnian Muslim fighters in the town asked for the return of weapons they had surrendered to the peacekeepers but their request was refused.

The Dutch commander called UN Headquarters in Sarajevo asking for "close air support" after shells and rockets landed close to refugee centres and observation posts manned by peacekeepers.

Serbs advance on Srebrenica
9 July 1995: The Bosnian Serbs stepped up their shelling and thousands of refugees fled to the town from southern camps ahead of advancing Serbs, who attacked Dutch observation posts, taking about 30 soldiers hostage.

One peacekeeper was fatally wounded when Bosnian Muslims fired on retreating Dutch troops.

10 July 1995: Dutch Commander Colonel Karremans filed a request for UN air support after the Bosnian Serbs shelled Dutch positions. UN Commander General Janvier initially refused, but agreed after another request from the colonel. Serb attacks stopped before the planes arrived and strikes were postponed.

Some 4,000 refugees were in the town by the evening and there was panic on the streets. Large crowds were gathered around the Dutch positions.

The Dutch commander told town leaders that Nato planes would launch massive air attacks against the Serbs if they had not withdrawn from the safe area by 0600 the following morning.

11 July 1995: The Serb forces did not withdraw, but at 0900 Colonel Karremans received word from Sarajevo that his request for close air support had been submitted on the wrong form. At 1030, the re-submitted request reached General Janvier, but Nato planes had to return to base in Italy to refuel after being airborne since 0600. By midday, more than 20,000 refugees - mostly women, children and the infirm - fled to the main Dutch base at Potocari.

At 1430, two Dutch F-16 fighters dropped two bombs on Serb positions surrounding Srebrenica. The Serbs responded with a threat to kill their Dutch hostages and shell refugees, causing the suspension of further strikes.

The Bosnian Serb commander Ratko Mladic entered Srebrenica two hours later, accompanied by Serb camera crews. In the evening, General Mladic summoned Colonel Karremans to a meeting at which he delivered an ultimatum that the Muslims must hand over their weapons to guarantee their lives.

Serbs seize control
12 July 1995: Buses arrived to take women and children to Muslim territory, while the Serbs begin separating out all men from age 12 to 77 for "interrogation for suspected war crimes".

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40608000/jpg/_40608214_3drinksap203c.jpg
Ratko Mladic (left) drank with Dutch Col Ton Karremans on 12 July
It is estimated that 23,000 women and children were deported in the next 30 hours. Hundreds of men were held in trucks and warehouses.

About 15,000 Bosnian Muslim fighters had attempted to escape from Srebrenica overnight and were shelled as they fled through the mountains.

Fears for 'missing' refugees
13 July 1995: The first killings of unarmed Muslims took place in a warehouse in the nearby village of Kravica.

Peacekeepers handed over about 5,000 Muslims who had been sheltering at the Dutch base at Potocari. In return, the Bosnian Serbs released 14 Dutch peacekeepers who had been held at the Nova Kasaba base.

16 July 1995: Early reports of massacres emerged as the first survivors of the long march from Srebrenica began to arrive in Muslim-held territory.

Following negotiations between the UN and the Bosnian Serbs, the Dutch were at last permitted to leave Srebrenica, leaving behind weapons, food and medical supplies.

In the five days after Bosnian Serb forces overran Srebrenica, more than 8,000 Muslim men are thought to have been killed.
----------------
After the Genocide was over with Mladic and his men and Dutch Generals have shared drinks, exchanged gifts and danced well into the night knowing they would be leaving Srebrenica. The Dutch Col Ton Karremans named the Srebrenica siege as nothing more but an "Excellently planned Military operation"

The death toll stands at over 8,000 dead and counting, by this summer nearly 300 more corpses have been recovered at the site.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Srebren4.jpg
http://www.crimesofwar.org/images/srebrenica_video.jpg
http://www.bosnaprkosnaodsna.mine.nu/video/img/srebrenica_massacre.jpg
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050603/050603_bosnia_video_hmed_8a.h2.jpg
http://republikabih.net/images/Srebrenica+Massacre+Coffins+12th+Anniversary+Genocide.jpg

[nb-legenda]

Those pictures are sad...

I have no idea how they can be so brave standing behind the rifles knowing they're going to die in less than a minute

[el Turco]

Shame on those who go invade countries for nothing, but sit down and watch when millions of people get massacred. Shame on the west. And it took place right in the middle of Europe, or "the civilization". Civilization, my ass. Dutch soldiers who were supposed to defend Srebrenica, but then ran away were given medals last year by Netherlands. There is a lot to say, but I'll just finish it right here.


Here are some videos:

Mladic entering Srebrenica
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JSEX4XFOF14






Executions (WARNING: IT'S VERY GRAPHICAL, DONT WATCH IT IF YOU CANT TAKE IT) :

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/srebrenica/video/x1gafe_news






:(

[nb-legenda]

what's even more sad is that the cetniks (excluding most of the Serbian people who did not support this) killed their own people. The west is useless. They come when the damage has already been done.

Just like in an action movie or something... someone gets killed... only then the police comes.

(and even sadder is the fact that most Europeans don't even know what even happened in Srebrenica)

[13Ballack13]

man just watching that video makes me angry i mean how can he say such things like that, i mean Ratko was like laughing when the massacre happened, he seriously deserves to be killed for all what he has done to the bosnians in Srebenica in '95', i got friends who come from this part of the city from bosnia and many of them lost there parents during the war, i just dont know how my friends will deal with this situation because i know how hard it is to overcome such a disaster like this, and like most people say, Never Forgive and Never Forget..........

Rip to those who died in Srebenica.....

[nb-legenda]

I'm never forgetting this and when I spot a Milosevic supporter, I will beat him with my hands until he's half dead

[Saraj Fanático]

I dunno why this was moved to politics forum. This matter is not political and it shouldn't be seen as politics in any way. Genocide shouldn't be seen as politics in any way.

Photo Gallery of events:
http://www.gendercide.org/photo1.html
http://www.gendercide.org/photo2.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/photo_gallery/2903545.stm

God knows how many more corpses haven't been dug up and how many won't ever be. People should look at this and know that this event occurred in the center of the most "Civilized" part of land in the world. Men assigned to keep the peace gave those children and men over to murderers over night and drank alongside cetniks. I am seeing the Srebrenica special right now on FTV and as the dates of birth are read of the newest corpses found, my heart aches hearing "1984", "1983, "1979"...so many of them were just teenagers and kids not even going into manhood. On Srebrenica's date, the local Bosnian Serbs of Srebrenica celebrate Mladic's recapture of Srebrenica after Militants of Oric and other Generals kept it Muslim Territory until the Peacekeepers declared all Muslim soldiers to give up their weapons and they guaranteed them that their brothers, and fathers will be kept safe in the hands of Europe. As I write this I am seeing Serbs on tv wearing Karadzic and Mladic pictured shirts with the tag "Serbian Hero" on top of the pictures. This just disgusts me so much.

Today Srebrenica is known as a Bosnian Serb town belonging to the Republika Srpska (I see it as the Genocide Mini State) and this is because it took the murder of 8,000 for it to be this. Europe in other words rewarded genocide with an entity of its own.

RIP to all those killed.

[FR Sloboda]

RIP To those that died and the semitic peoples should not forget what happened in Srebrenica 1995.

[Cro_Sensation]

I don't want to point my finger at the Dutch peace keepers, I saw a documentary where the Dutch peacekeepers didn't want to give up the people they were protecting, but the UN itself (the animals), kept giving orders that if they refused to give them up, they would be court marshalled and etc.

I personally would rather go to jail or die before I have 5000 dead people on my conscious, but thats me.

These soldiers are seen singing Jedna si Jedina every anniversary. I forget the name of the documentary, but once I ask my gf the name of it, i'll post it here.

It's a shame what happened, my gf is from Velika Kladusa and knows many people who escaped Srebrenica in her city. They have trouble functioning normally since what happened. This doesn't just affect the 8000 that were murdered, it has a chain reaction that goes through the people who witnessed it, or have family or close friends who perished.

It's a tragedy...

RIP.

[Saraj Fanático]

Europe failed so many people that all peoples from the Balkans should consider the UN and her reputation as a joke. The war should have been stopped once the first offensive against Slovenia started thus avoiding further damage in Slovenia, Croatia, BiH, Kosovo, and Serbia itself. Srebrenica was just the main piece of evidence of UN's ignorance and animalistic behavior. If the Un failed to avoid such killing in EUROPE (Named by many as the Capital of the "Democratic" world), then what can humanity expect in Asia, Africa, and Latin America? Proves that you can only trust your own kind to keep you and your nation secure. Foreign force doesn't work if it doesn't include a member of the World Powers.

[boris4c]

RIP to all the men who died in Srebrenica.

I am (not) surprised nobody has mentionned the 3,500 Serbs that were killed as well. RIP to them as well.

I would just like to specify the numbers of victimes from the massacre is 3,214. Digging up and reburying the same remains doesn't really help when it comes to cold, hard facts. Yet, 13 years later, some people are still "searching for the remains" of another 5,000 Muslim fighters. Where could they be? Where could one find another 5,000 bodies, when the entire Western world and all the Muslims in the world, had spent 13 long years after the war, digging the whole Bosnia inside-out, looking under every rock and turning every stone to find even a fingertip.

So I'm asking Saraj, how can it be 8,000 and counting ...?

I really don't like when people exaggerate.

-----

Srebrenica Serbs Mourn Alone

On Saturday, Bosnian Serbs have again gathered to commemorate more than 3,500 Srebrenica Serbs massacred by Naser Oric's mujahedins stationed in the UN "safe haven" during the Bosnian civil war (1992-1995).

Unlike the day before, July 11th, when the world descends on Srebrenica to collectively mourn Bosnian jihadists who lost their lives during the battle for Srebrenica (July 1995), the butchery of Bosnian Serb civilians -- women, children and elderly from Srebrenica and surrounding villages -- went by, this year yet again, without the thunderous expressions of the righteous indignation by the Western ambassadors serving in Bosnia-Herzegovina, without the EU High Representative's moving and thoughtful speeches, without the foreign reporters and photographers hunting the most heart wrenching expression of grief, without the eclectic mix of obscure celebrities and Hollywood stars, eager to show their "human side" to the world, while straining to look pretty under the Muslim head coverings, in the midst of bellowing praises to Allah and ritualistic animal slaughter.

This year's commemoration of the victims of Oric's cutthroats and the tragedy of the Serbian people in this region was additionally burdened by the fact that the appellation board of the Hague tribunal had acquitted the only man thus far accused by the Hague for the genocidal crimes against Srebrenica Serbs, Naser Oric.

http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/images/bosnia/Bratunac-Memorial7a.jpg
Bosnian Serb girl cleans the grave of her family member at the cemetery where the remains of Srebrenica Serbs are buried.

http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/images/bosnia/bosnian-mujahedins3.jpg
"Those mourned in Potocari [Srebrenica Muslim cemetery] are the ones who torched hundreds of Serbian villages and killed thousands of Serbian civilians": Parade of 10,000 strong unit of Bosnian mujahedins in Zenica during the Bosnian civil war.

http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/images/bosnia/proud-butchers2.jpg
Oric's butcher proudly poses over the massacred Bosnian Serbs

[boris4c]

The following pictures are very graphic. Do not proceed if you cannot stand such pictures.

These are only some of thousands of Serbs that were massacred by Muslim forces in Srebrenica and other Bosnian cities. They will never be forgotten, even if they are never mentionned

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/001.jpg
Srebrenica/Zvornik region: The body of a Bosnian Serb boy murdered by Nasir Oric's forces in the Srebrenica pocket in eastern Bosnia.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/003.jpg
Bottom, the mutilated body of 13 year old Bosnian Serb Darko Koroman. Bosnian Muslim troops executed him and cut off his right ear and stabbed him through the neck. The bodies of executed Bosnian Serb civilians Pero Grcic and Stojka Koroman lie beside his.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/005.jpg
The decapitated head of Bosnian Serb farmer Pero Makic, who was executed by Bosnian Muslim/Croat forces in the northeastern Bosnian city of Brcko on June 22, 1992. His head was placed on a pitch-fork and a cigarette was placed in his mouth. One of the forks of the pitch-fork was stabbed in his eye. This is a photo that was censored and suppressed in the West and the US.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/009.jpg
The Milici Massacre, south of Srebrenica. Bosnian Muslim troops executed Bosnian Serbs and mutilated their bodies. On left, Ljubomir Jurosevic had his right eye cut out by Bosnian Muslim soldiers and his neck and chest showed signs of knife wounds. On right, the mutilated body of Bosnian Serb Dimitrije Alempic from Rogosije, who was executed by Bosnian Muslim soldiers. His body was mutilated and burned.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/010.jpg
The corpse of Bosnian Serb civilian Radivoje Lukic, 59. The Bosnian Muslim paramilitaries "The Mosque Doves" or "Dzamijski Golubovi", murdered him with an axe to the head on October 8, 1992 in Klisa.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/011.jpg
The bodies of two Bosnian Serbs in eastern Bosnia. On the right, a charred body of Zdravo Eric, who was killed and his body burned. Before burning him, Muslims took out the heart of this Christian as a sign of Islamic piety.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/018.jpg
Sarajevo: The body of Bosnian Serb Nenad Beribaka. The Bosnian Muslim forces mutilated his body after killing him by extracting his brain.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/019.jpg
Sarajevo: The body of a Bosnian Serb. Bosnian Muslim forces mutilated his bodyby busting his skull open.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/020.jpg
Bosnian Muslim military forces from Srebrenica killed Bosnian Serb Milan Vujicic, mutilated his body, and then roasted his corpse.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/024.jpg
The mutilated body of Velo Majstorovic, who was tortured, killed, circumcized, and burned alive by Bosnian Muslim forces in Milici in eastern Bosnia, southwest of Srebrenica.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/031.jpg
Saudi mujahedeen with decapitated heads of Bosnian Serb POWs in 1992. Al-Qaeda funded and organized these early terrorist attacks against Bosnian Serbs.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/032.jpg
Afghan-Arab mujahedeen holding the decapitated head of a Bosnian Serb POW who was executed and decapitated in central Bosnia in 1992.

http://www.serbianna.com/features/srebrenica/033.jpg
Bosnian Muslim forces mutilated the bodies of Bosnian Serb soldiers in Brcko in northeastern Bosnia. Here eyeballs have been gouged out.

[The Joker]

Excuse me? I don't care about any of this...Really i am trying to eat my dinner and should NOT have to look at those pics. Laughing Man...Do your job!

[The Joker]

Although I will say that the Serbs were the good guys in all of this. Really these Bosnian Muslims need to stop crying. What goes around comes around!

[The Joker]

what's even more sad is that the cetniks (excluding most of the Serbian people who did not support this) killed their own people. The west is useless. They come when the damage has already been done.

Just like in an action movie or something... someone gets killed... only then the police comes.

(and even sadder is the fact that most Europeans don't even know what even happened in Srebrenica)

Why is the WEST useless? Look elsewhere to point the finger Norma.

[nb-legenda]

Although I will say that the Serbs were the good guys in all of this. Really these Bosnian Muslims need to stop crying. What goes around comes around!

yes yes... the Serbs are the good guys because they invade and kill innocent children and women and try to create Greater Serbia that never worked or exist to begin with. The Muslims are the bad guys who only defended themselves. This is war, both sides commited gruesome crimes... Dupont, I can easily say what the Nazis did was right (which it wasn't). Cetniks and Nazis... they were both in the same league, they both tried to cleanse their region from a religious party. just think if I said the Nazis what they did and what they tried to do to England is right. thats how we here feel when an idiot says something like that

where did the hatred come from? the only thing religion has achievied is drift civilization further from peace.

so try to get rid of the hatred your parents or grand parents have infiltrated to your blood and think before you speak. whatever they have told you always think that there is always the other side of the story. In essence don't be too low to hate god's creations whichever language they speak.

[el Turco]

^^^

One of the best posts, if not the best, Nermin has posted.

Good job. :)

[Sema]

^ And! He didn't follow up with three more posts about the same thing! Great Job Nermin!

[nb-legenda]

finally people here see me as a legenda like no other

PS: no really, I feel very honored that good people like you guys respect me

[Saraj Fanático]

[QUOTE=boris4c;1014617]RIP to all the men who died in Srebrenica.

I am (not) surprised nobody has mentionned the 3,500 Serbs that were killed as well. RIP to them as well.

I would just like to specify the numbers of victimes from the massacre is 3,214. Digging up and reburying the same remains doesn't really help when it comes to cold, hard facts. Yet, 13 years later, some people are still "searching for the remains%

[The Joker]

yes yes... the Serbs are the good guys because they invade and kill innocent children and women and try to create Greater Serbia that never worked or exist to begin with. The Muslims are the bad guys who only defended themselves. This is war, both sides commited gruesome crimes... Dupont, I can easily say what the Nazis did was right (which it wasn't). Cetniks and Nazis... they were both in the same league, they both tried to cleanse their region from a religious party. just think if I said the Nazis what they did and what they tried to do to England is right. thats how we here feel when an idiot says something like that

where did the hatred come from? the only thing religion has achievied is drift civilization further from peace.

so try to get rid of the hatred your parents or grand parents have infiltrated to your blood and think before you speak. whatever they have told you always think that there is always the other side of the story. In essence don't be too low to hate god's creations whichever language they speak.


You still haven't answered my question as to why you think the West was useless? There is no hatred in my blood...I speak facts and the facts are that the serbs weren't the only bad guys in all of this.

Anyway today is my birthday, so I don't care!

[Lance Knight]

Excuse me? I don't care about any of this...Really i am trying to eat my dinner and should NOT have to look at those pics. Laughing Man...Do your job!
this is the politics forum they have to rights to post about politics
and well whats wronf with the pics, just dont see why anyone would eat and watch them at the same time

what's even more sad is that the cetniks (excluding most of the Serbian people who did not support this) killed their own people. The west is useless. They come when the damage has already been done.

Just like in an action movie or something... someone gets killed... only then the police comes.

(and even sadder is the fact that most Europeans don't even know what even happened in Srebrenica)

what the hell????
i'll agree with dupont on this.... what the hell the west got to do with this... if the west did anything u'd say something like ohh they invading blah blah blah.........
cry to bloody UN or something cause if your government is allowing such things to happened what the hell are we supposed to do come in and create martial law?????

[el Turco]

what the hell????
i'll agree with dupont on this.... what the hell the west got to do with this... if the west did anything u'd say something like ohh they invading blah blah blah.........
cry to bloody UN or something cause if your government is allowing such things to happened what the hell are we supposed to do come in and create martial law?????

Actually, UN did intervene with the war. It was late but they did. And you know what they did. They declared the city of Srebrenica the safe haven. They told all Bosnians around the country to move there and guaranteed that no harm would be done to them there. And Dutch soldiers were responsible of defending the city. So, after all people moved there, Serbs attacked Srebrenica, and Dutch soldiers did nothing. Absolutely nothing. They just ran away. And that is where the massacre happened.

Why did UN intervene at the first place. C'mon Lance, no offense to Dupont but I think you are a more reasonable person than him. A war between 3 nations is taking place in the middle of Europe, everyday there are kids, and men getting killed, women being raped, and UN is not going to intervene with this. Then what is UN for. I had to write a paper about Bosnian War in Spanish calss last year, and when I was looking stuff up, I came across a great quote by then US Assistant Secretary Richard Holbrooke. He said Bosnian war is the biggest failure of west in 20th century. I think that sentence pretty much sums it up.

And you should watch this short movie called 10 Minutes(below). It won the best short movie award in Europe. It's only ten minutes long. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppAn0LNU_V8

[nb-legenda]

^ thank you! quality post! vid's sad

[boris4c]

Sorry to tell you this, but the UN aren't peaceMAKERS, they are peaceKEEPERS. Never in history has the UN intervened during a war. The civil war in Yugoslavia was the first time they intervened during AND NOT AFTER a war. Usually, they come in when a cease-fire is declared, and they are there to keep that peace, which they have done more than succesfully and which is why they received the Nobel Prize for peace in 1988.

You can't make peace. There was not much the UN could do. UN soldiers were not allowed to shoot unless shot on, and no soldier was dumb enough to make that mistake. They could just walk beside them. Why should the world send its soldiers to protect other people they have no link whatsoever with. Why should a Canadian guy go to BiH and fight the Serbs and lose his life to protect some Bosniak guy he has never seen before. The UN soldiers are people too, and they have families back home. More than 500 UN soldiers were killed in Yugoslavia: the most in history.

UN safe areas were indeed made to protect all people, not only the Bosniaks. Yet, the Bosniak forces succesfully killed 3,500 Serbs under the UN's eyes. When the Serbs approached, they were pushed back, while Bosniak soliders could go in and out of the enclaves as many times as they want.

Bosniaks were warned more than 3 times to stop killing the Serbs in Bratunac, Srebrenica and its surroundings. They did not listen. And always remember: what happened before Srebrenica is as important as what happened during.

PS. All women and children were spared. When you want to eliminate an ethnic group (to commit genocide), your goal is eliminate them completely, especially the children which are the future and the women which are carrying the children prior to their birth. This was not done, hence there was no genocide, as declared by the International Tribunal in The Hague. This was a massacre indeed, not a genocide. If you want to call it a genocide, you'll have to prove it to me that it was one, and you can hardly do that, as nobody in the world could prove it to the Tribunal.

A huge percentage of men killed in Srebrenica are Bosniak fighters, the same ones who slaughtered 3,500 Serbs ( as you have seen on the pictures in the previous page).

[nb-legenda]

boris, there were 32,723 Bosniak civilians killed during the war, 30% of which were women and children

According to the Central Intelligence Agency, 90% of the war crimes that occurred in Bosnian war were committed by Serbs. Don't even begin saying Bosniaks were more horrid. They both committed some gruesome acts, but the level the Bosniaks did it was nothing compared to what the Serbs did. They were aiming for Greater Serbia and genocide of Muslims because the followers of Milosevic (including boris who hates Bosniaks) were idiots and could not tolerate another religion.

You're saying that the massacre in July 1995 happened because of Naser Oric and the massacre of Serbs. But before even that, the Serbs with military power took control of Srebrenica and killed/expelled Bosniak civillians. Naser Oric recaptured it and what many Serbs claim he did might've not even happened and still lies as a controversy while there are clear video reports, pictures, evidence that the Serbs massacred Bosniak people in Srebrenica.

And it doesn't matter how many the Serbs killed (which the number is still rising to this day through ongoing research, many expect the numbers to rise to 10,000) because their aim was the extinction of 40,000 Bosniaks that lived in Srebrenica which they couldn't complete.

Theodor Meron's words in the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia:

By seeking to eliminate a part of the Bosnian Muslims [Bosniaks], the Bosnian Serb forces committed genocide. They targeted for extinction the forty thousand Bosnian Muslims living in Srebrenica, a group which was emblematic of the Bosnian Muslims in general. They stripped all the male Muslim prisoners, military and civilian, elderly and young, of their personal belongings and identification, and deliberately and methodically killed them solely on the basis of their identity

[The Joker]

Boris, your last post was pure quality and the truth.


Nermin, you still haven't answered why you think the west is useless? Answer me this...Why should young American and British soldiers put their lives on the line to help? All i ever hear you do is say how great Bosnia is at this and that and how the west fails...Sort your own battles out. Why should we help?

[nb-legenda]

as much as you don't like it... it's the UN's job

The United Nations (UN) is an international organization whose stated aims are to facilitate cooperation in international law, international security, economic development, social progress and human rights. The UN was founded in 1945 to replace the League of Nations, to stop wars between nations and to provide a platform for dialogue.

[Bosnian Unit]

RIP to all the men who died in Srebrenica.

I am (not) surprised nobody has mentionned the 3,500 Serbs that were killed as well. RIP to them as well.

I would just like to specify the numbers of victimes from the massacre is 3,214. Digging up and reburying the same remains doesn't really help when it comes to cold, hard facts. Yet, 13 years later, some people are still "searching for the remains" of another 5,000 Muslim fighters. Where could they be? Where could one find another 5,000 bodies, when the entire Western world and all the Muslims in the world, had spent 13 long years after the war, digging the whole Bosnia inside-out, looking under every rock and turning every stone to find even a fingertip.

So I'm asking Saraj, how can it be 8,000 and counting ...?

I really don't like when people exaggerate.


Just one of 80% Serbs who are Srebrenica genocide DENIERS !


FALSIFICATION OF SERB "VICTIMS" AROUND SREBRENICA

In order to justify Srebrenica genocide, Serbian propaganda - under the leadership of right-wing nationalist Milivoje Ivanisevic - claimed that over 3,000 Serb civilians were murdered around Srebrenica. What are the facts?

QUOTE: For the whole region, i.e the municipalities of Srebrenica, Bratunac, Vlasenica and Skelani, the Serb authorities claimed previously that about 1400 people were killed due to attacks committed by the BH Army forces for the period of May 1992 to March 1995, when Srebrenica was under the control of Naser Oric. Now the figure has become 3,500 Serbs killed. This figure may have been inflated. Taking the term "victims" as defined previously, these figures just does not reflect the reality.



QUOTE: Research and Documentation Center (RDC) in Sarajevo, which includes joint Bosniak, Serb and Croat investigators, recently investigated number of alleged Serb casualties around Srebrenica and concluded that the alleged number of 3,287 Serb casualties in Central Podrinje is actually incorrect and nine to ten times lower than reported by the Serbian media. RDC closely works and aids ICTY Investigations and is funded by both international community and the joint government of Bosnia-Herzegovina (which is composed of Bosniak, Serb and Croat lawmakers).

QUOTE: Perhaps the clearest illustration of gross exaggeration is that of Kravica, a Serb village near Bratunac attacked by the Bosnian Army on the morning of Orthodox Christmas, January 7, 1993 . The allegations that the attack resulted in hundreds of civilian victims have been shown to be false. Insight into the original documentation of the Army of Republika Srpska (VRS) clearly shows that in fact military victims highly outnumber the civilian ones.


QUOTE: The then leadership of the RS called on the local Serb population to leave Sarajevo and even take the graves of their loved ones with them. In fact, such a large majority followed the instructions that parts of the city of Sarajevo remained deserted for months. The remnants of their loved ones have been buried in Bratunac after the war, but their deaths are presented as the result of actions taken by the Bosnian Army units from Srebrenica.



QUOTE: The critics also invoke unreliable statistics. A spokesman for the ruling Democratic Party of Serbia in the wake of the Oric judgment, for example, claimed that “we have documents showing that 3,260 people were found dead around Srebrenica from 1992-1995.” However, the book Hronike nasih grobalja (Chronicles of Our Graveyards) by the Serb historian Milivoje Ivanisevic (the president of the Belgrade Centre for Investigating Crimes Committed against the Serbian People), uses the significantly lower figure, of “more than 1,000 persons [who] died,” and contains the list, mostly made of men of military age. Among those killed, there were evidently a significant number of Bosnian Serb soldiers who died in the fighting, like in Kravica.


READ THIS BORIS:

QUOTE: Some 4,000 out of more than 8,000 Muslim men and boys murdered by Bosnian Serb forces in July 1995 have so far been exhumed. Their remains lie in body bags, often mixed up, awaiting identification.

QUOTE: As in Bosnia, Serbian forces are accused of moving bodies already buried once in order to try to destroy the evidence of mass killings.

This is why they have problem finding the rest of bodies !



Srebrenica Genocide is not a matter of anybody's opinion; it's a judicial fact recognized first by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia and subsequently by the International Court of Justice.

[Bosnian Unit]

SERBIA: WOMEN IN BLACK

These kind of efforts don’t make the headlines… on the very same day in Serbia, Boris Tadic was sworn in as the president. He gave an important speech without mentioning one word about what happened in Srebrenica exactly 9 years ago.

http://coalitionofwomen.org/home/english/articles/from_belgrade_to_srebrenica/belgrade_wib_10dec04.jpg?display=large

On the eve of the trip to the memorial, a warm summer evening in Belgrade, the same group of activists, primarily from Women in Black, all met in the famous Republic Square (Trg Republike) at the city center. They held a vigil in the memory of Srebrenica at the same space where they always gather. Minutes before they positioned themselves in the square, a few of them were attacked by some women who stayed for the rest of the evening, shouting and yelling obscenities at them. About 70 people, at most, stood all together wearing black shirts, with black banners such as “we will not forget Srebrenica,” “amnesty for all who refused to participate in the wars,” “Women in Black against war,” “to forget and to be silent about crimes is a crime.” They held up excerpts of a letter from women in Srebrenica: “we are searching for them! We are searching for the truth about them! For every victim of war, truth and not revenge,” and “nine years since the crimes in Srebrenica, July 11, 1995 – July 11 2004.”

“That was intense, it was unbearable,” some of them later said. The police had to stand between the silent circle of Women in Black’s peaceful protest and the loud audience that could not accept such voices, those who are taking responsibility for war crimes, in their Serbia.

The counter-protestors stood there, shouting slogans in support of their heroes “long live Seselj, Radovan Karazic, Ratko Mladic” (the first is the leader of the Serbian radical party and is in the Hague already, the other two are still wanted by the Hague for war crimes) “you are the shame of Serbia,” “you are all whores,” “you have Serbian blood in your veins, show no shame of that,” and threatened, “we know where you live and we will come for you.”

[Bosnian Unit]

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2006-03/22364628.jpg

Bosnian hero Naser Oric, only one accused for war crimes in Srebrenica and surrounding area is FREE ! There was no organized crime by Bosnian government.




This is organized genocide commited by Serbia and Bosnian Serbs !

http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2005/07/12/mn_srebrenica105.jpg

http://children.foreignpolicyblogs.com/files/2007/07/srebrenica.jpg


http://www.danas.co.yu/20021126/images/terazije_1.jpg

http://www.prijepolje.in/urednici/Sanid/vijesti/noz_zica_srebrenica.jpg

Belgrade: Serbia - Bosnia (football game)

Serb police dont see a problem while tens of thousands Serbian fans are singing Noz,Zica Srebrenica (translation:KNIFE,WIRE SREBRENICA).

In fact most of them are proud of what their HERO (WAR CRIMINAL) Ratko Mladic and his soldiers did in Srebrenica.

[Bosnian Unit]

Those pictures from boris are mostly propaganda, some of them killed people are even Bosniaks.....


He got those pictures from Serbian propaganda website Serbianna......




Serbianna is, sadly, using propaganda to morally equalize crimes committed against citizens of Srebrenica (Bosniaks). Long before there were any attacks on Serbs in the area, Serb Army ethnically cleansed and tortured hundreds of thousands of Bosniaks in the area of Eastern Bosnia. The images shown at Serbianna are of individual Serb soldiers who died in the Western Bosnia and other areas, but not in Srebrenica. The image of beheaded "Rade Rogic" turned out to be the image of a Bosniak soldier who was beheaded by Serbs.


Serbian propaganda of lies and deception can be objectivelly rulled as nothing more, but a complete success! They operate under simple, yet effective formula: (repeat lie) x (1000 times) = and it will become truth!

Three days ago I received an e-mail from Husnija Hadzipasic (Bosniak woman). She asked me to publish a story about her son who was beheaded by Serbian military forces in Bosnia. The video of her son's beheading is still freely available all over the internet, only under a different name (Serbian name). This video is freely used solely for Serb-propaganda purposes portraying her son as a "Serb soldier" who got "decapitated by Muslims."

Following the release of a video by the Hague War Crimes Tribunal (on June 1, 2005) showing Serbian paramilitary unit the "Scorpions" brutally executing 6 defenceless Bosniak men and underage boys (read here), Serbian propaganda oriented website (Serbianna) published the so called "Srebrenica Massacre: Photo Story" portaying Bosniaks as blood-thirsty monsters killing and beheading Serbs.

The website features alleged video beheading of a "Serb soldier Rade Rogic" and other propaganda videos that came from "uncomfirmed sources". The International Criminal Court for Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) refused to admit this video as evidence. To put things into perspective, these types of Serbian propaganda videos have nothing to do with Srebrenica genocide or Srebrenica region - they are used just as propaganda material to trick average internet reader into thinking that Srebrenica massacre was only a revenge for alleged earlier "Bosnian Muslim crimes" (as Serbs like to put it). What an insult to intelligence!

What they mean by "earlier" is also debatable and questionable, because they were the ones who attacked predominantly Muslim Eastern part of Bosnia in order to grab the territory for "Greater Serbia" (enlarged Serbia). The bottom line is that Serbian thugs had no business of being there and terrorizing Muslim population in the first place.

The alleged beheading of alleged "Serb soldier Rade Rogic" allegedly took place around Sanski Most. If you are familiar with basic Bosnian geography, you will notice that Srebrenica is in the Eastern part of Bosnia, while Sanski Most is in the Western part of Bosnia. I'll get back to "Rade Rogic" later.

The website also alleges that thousands of Serbs were killed by Naser Oric's forces around Srebrenica; and as a result, Serbianna seems to suggest that Srebrenica massacre was justified, because Bosniaks put up a defence against genocidal Serbian thugs who brutally attacked predominantly Muslim part of Bosnia. According to Serbian logic, Bosnian forces were naturally guilty for provoking Srebrenica massacre. What a sick logic! Serbianna however, does not mention that in fact, long before Naser Oric defensively counter-attacked Bosnian Serb and Serbian forces around Srebrenica, close to 90% of Bosniak population of Eastern Bosnia was ethnically cleansed by Bosnian Serb and Serbian (para)-military forces and tens of thousands of Bosniaks died at the hands of Christian Serbian extremist fascists, also known as Chetniks. The rest of population was starving in Srebrenica, subjected to constant Serb artillery; no humanitarian convoys were allowed to bring food or medical supplies into the enclave.

So, naturally the question pops out - what did these Serbian and Bosnian Serb military forces doing in predominanly Muslim inhabitted Eastern Bosnia? They had no business of being there in the first place! They were brutally raping, killing, torturing, and ethnically cleansing Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim) population, grabbing predominantly Bosniak territory for a planned and enlarged "Greater Serbia". Tens of thousands of Bosniaks were slaughtered in Eastern Bosnia long before Naser Oric took up defensive fight in and around Srebrenica.

Serb forces around Srebrenica had never demilitarized! And yet, Serbian propaganda and Srebrenica massacre revisionists constantly blamed Bosnian side for not fully demilitarizing. In fact, Bosnian side was the only one who satisfactorily demilitarized by the UN standards as already stated by the United Nations Report (read here). Serbs never honored their part of agreement and never handed down their weapons, because they did not want Srebrenica demilitarized. They wanted Srebrenica ethnically cleansed and in their hands as part of "Greater Serbia". Instead of handing down weapons to the U.N. and thus demilitarizing, they used the weapons to slaughter over 8,000 Srebrenica civilians! And yet, Serbians and their friends - Srebrenica massacre revisionists (also known as Srebrenica Genocide deniers) - continue to deny that 8,000 Bosniaks died during Srebrenica genocide. Their denial of over 8,000 dead Srebrenica massacre victims is nothing, but a complete nonsense (read here and here).

Now, back to the Serbian argument that Naser Oric allegedly killed thousands of Serb civilians around Srebrenica. What a nonsense! In fact, (respectively) less than 2,000 Serb civilians died in all of Bosnia (or 1,978 to be exact) - many of them from Bosnian Serb shells hitting besieged government-controlled cities. (Source: The Research and Documentation Centre, as of December 15, 2005). It is also notable to mention that many Serbs served (and died) in the Bosnian Army while defending values of Bosnian multi-culturalism, freedom and democracy. Former president of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Mr. Alija Izetbegovic, once said that as many as 15% of all Bosnian Army soldiers were in fact Bosnian Serbs.

Serbianna also does not mention that according to the ICTY Indictment, former Chief of Intelligence of the Serb Army - Ljubisa Beara - personally participated in the decapitation of 80 to 100 Muslims in Srebrenica. Instead, Serbian propagandists and their friends promote alleged beheading video of "Serb soldier Rade Rogic" in Western Bosnia as an excuse for Srebrenica massacre in Eastern Bosnia. What a circus!

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

The problem is that imaginary "Serb soldier: Rade Rogic" was not even there, let alone "beheaded by Muslims" - as claimed by Serbianna. The person beheaded was Mustafa Hadzipasic, Bosnian soldier ambushed by Serbian (para) military thugs during operation Sanski Most in 1995. Mustafa Hadzipasic was native of Buzim (close to Velika Kladusa in the Western tip of Bosnia). He served in the 5th corps of Bosnian Army, 505th Buzim brigade during operation Sanski Most. Upon retreat (and defeat) of Serb forces in that area, he was captured by Serb military forces who shot propaganda video posing as "mujahedeens". Serbian paramilitary thugs in the video (posing as mujahedeens) have distinct Serbian accent that is easily recognizable by any native speaker of the area.

Husnija Hadzipasic, mother of Mustafa Hadzipasic, wrote to me 3 days ago. Here is a translation of her e-mail:


Ess-selamu-alaykum,

My name is Husnija Hadzipasic. I need to tell this truth to the world. Serbs circulate video of my son being slaughtered. They say his name is Rade Rogic. That is not true. I have viewed the video hundred times and every time I cried. People who knew my son also viewed video over and over again. We are absolutely certain that the person beheaded in this video is Mustafa Hadzipasic. Now that we know what Serbs did to our son, we will go to Bosnia next month to look for his grave. Please publish this information on your site.

Mustafa was born in Buzim on July 2, 1968.
His father is Ismet
Hadzipasic, who died of heart attack last year
Both Mustafa and Ismet served in the 5th corps of Bosnian Army, 505th Buzim brigade.
Mustafa was survived by two daughters, Alma and Emina.

We give you permission to publish this information. If you want more information, you can call us at (phone # edited).

Allahumanet (Peace be with you)

Husnija Hadzipasic
(Netherlands)

I edited Husnija's phone # for privacy issues, but if you want to contact her, you can e-mail her at hhadzipasic@yahoo.com .

[nb-legenda]

What a way to clear everything up Bosnian Unit!

His post contains raw unquestionable evidence, Bosnian Unit, you're a legend like no other. To put all that effort down, do you have a website or something?

and also RIP to the Bosnian Serbs that fought for the Bosnian Army, that fought for what was right. True heroes

oh and Bosnian Unit, watch boris or dupont or DZ e-mail Husnija and insult her every way possible :lol: hehe :)

[boris4c]

bla bla bla Bosnian Unit ... You can say what you want, but you're never, never going to make me believe that bullshit. People write stuff, you know. Not everything that is written is true. You weren't there, and I wasn't there. At first, the Bosniaks claimed 250,000 Muslims were killed :lol: In a long time I didn't hear such a good joke. Even at the football game in 2005 you guys had a transparent saying "We have 250,000 reasons to hate you!". Now this number is not even 100,000 OVERALL! (It is 96,000) At least 25% of this number were Serbian casualties, yet they are never mentionned, and even worse: guys like Bosnian Unit are completely denying these facts.

Don't tell me those pictures were false. There are other pictures on that website where you clearly see those people are Serbs. On some of the pictures you clearly see burned down churches, mujahideens holding heads, etc. If there is anybody that falsified pictures and videos - it's the Bosniaks. Don't tell me anything, I know it's true and every smart person knows this.

Everybody knows Izetbegovic told the Srebrenica habitants that a NATO intervention in BiH was possible ONLY IF the Serbs penetrate Srebrenica and kill at least 5,000 Bosniaks. This fact was indeed reported by SEVERAL Srebrenica survivors.

Whatever the horror of several places, there were NO extermination camps. Prison camps were held by both Serbs and Bosniaks. I know some men who were held prisonners in Bosniak camps and who went through hell, many of them today living in Cajnice.

The media and the political figures were flooding with material exggerating Serb atrocitites, while Muslims atrocities (like the decapitation of Serbian prisoners, fully documented) were kept confidential. To the public and naive Bosniaks like Bosnian Unit, this was a one-sided conflict between a Serbian fascist agressor and innocent victimes, all unarmed civilians.

Let me tell you, I live in Canada and Canada was probably the biggest contributor of UN soldiers in BiH. I work in a pharmacy and I often meet former UN soldiers from BiH (I recognize them because of their special drug insurance for being army guys) and we always discuss the 1992-95 war. My first sentence is always "It's such a shame that the Serbs were the only ones blamed" and every single one's answer is "OH LET ME TELL YOU, WE IMMEDIATELY SAW THAT THE SERBS WEREN'T THE ONLY BAD GUYS".

Anyways, you guys can believe what you want, you can bombard me with false allegations of genocide (which was clearly denied by the International Tribunal), you can bombard me with lies and false articles written by fascist Americans and Germans, but you'll never take away the truth that lies in me. Never.

[nb-legenda]

^ your comment just proves you didn't read everything

with comments like this:

Don't tell me those pictures were false. There are other pictures on that website where you clearly see those people are Serbs. On some of the pictures you clearly see burned down churches, mujahideens holding heads, etc. If there is anybody that falsified pictures and videos - it's the Bosniaks. Don't tell me anything, I know it's true and every smart person knows this

the muhahideens holding the heads are Serbs who try to maintain 50/50 blame on Srebrenica with the Bosniaks when in truth, Serbs are the only to blame in Srebrenica, Bosniaks just defended themselves

Serbianna is like the biggest propaganda site I've seen in my life. All it ever talks about is what Croats and Bosniaks are doing and tries to make Serbs look all innocent and crap.

[nb-legenda]

bla bla bla Bosnian Unit ... You can say what you want, but you're never, never going to make me believe that bullshit.

No one cares what you believe.

When will you learn that in this world, it doesn't matter what you believe, it matters what UN (or whoever) believes.

Just like in football, my coach always said "It doesn't matter what you think of yourself, it only matters what I think of you" because in what route are you going to progress? You're not going to get anywhere if you battle your own thoughts heh

PS: at least Bosnian Unit is showing raw evidence that is unquestionable. you boris on the other hand, just refuse to believe things simply because you're Serb, you TRY to believe that those headless victims are Serbs and not Bosniaks made to look like Serbs.

[nb-legenda]

Anyways, you guys can believe what you want, you can bombard me with false allegations of genocide (which was clearly denied by the International Tribunal), you can bombard me with lies and false articles written by fascist Americans and Germans, but you'll never take away the truth that lies in me. Never.

sta ba pricas, evo ti tvoj International Tribunal:

By seeking to eliminate a part of the Bosnian Muslims , the Bosnian Serb forces committed [B]genocide. They targeted for extinction the forty thousand Bosnian Muslims living in Srebrenica, a group which was emblematic of the Bosnian Muslims in general. They stripped all the male Muslim prisoners, military and civilian, elderly and young, of their personal belongings and identification, and deliberately and methodically killed them solely on the basis of their identity

[nb-legenda]

Anyways, you guys can believe what you want, you can bombard me with false allegations of genocide (which was clearly denied by the International Tribunal), you can bombard me with lies and false articles written by fascist Americans and Germans, but you'll never take away the truth that lies in me. Never.

da, ti si sad Bog :lol: don't even start playing with God himself you fool
------------------------

the war to begin with... what a load of crap. Why kill your own narod, who uhh... cares what religion/race/ethnicity he/she is, you don't have to start hating him because he's different

LOLOLOLOLOL @ Noz, Zica, Srebrenica, so immature, can't they see it's hurting their own country in the world of politics just by performing gaaay stunts like those, one out of many reasons why Serbia will never join EU, because of arrogant politicians and also arrogant citizens who are hurting the nation's stature

[nb-legenda]

and also Bosnian hero Naser Oric:

http://blog.b92.net/arhiva/files/images/naser_oric_povratak_big.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39083000/jpg/_39083555_oric_ap_203.jpg

http://www.bosnjaci.net/foto/Naser_Oric_i_Isnam_Taljic3_big.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5168/clipboard01aq7un0.jpg

he will always be the hero of Bosnia and symbol of Bosnian pride :) also I heard he's a passionate BHF fanatico and was a Zeljeznicar fan back in the days, respect :smoking:

[boris4c]

Shut up Nermin :lol: You were probably born sometime during the war in some foreign country and you stepped into Bosnia for the first time this summer. At least I lived in Yugoslavia for more than 10 years and I can easily say I've been closer to the situation than you have.

I will always believe some people that have been through this, local people as well as UN soldiers that I know here, than listen to some American propaganda. How do you think everything on CNN is propaganda "except Bosnia" ?

Once again you are denying the truth that 25,000 Serbs have been killed. That would be as if I said Srebrenica never happened, which I never said. I feel bad for Srebrenica but I also know nowhere near to 8,000 people have been killed, which is even stated by Gen. Lewis MacKenzie, who was the main UN guy in BiH. MacKenzie is always on Canadian television telling the truth to Canadian citizens. I also know many of the Srebrenica victims were men who slaughtered Serbs previously.

Why are there more Serbs refugees than Bosniak ones? Why has my family left its own town: Gorazde. Who burned my house down? Who beheaded my uncle Nedjo? Who made me run to Canada, and millions of others? Don't be so naive....

[boris4c]

Here Nermin

http://www.dw-world.de/image/0,,1644032_4,00.jpg

066 222-306
CALL IMMEDIATELY!

You will be awarded $5,000,000 !

[nb-legenda]

Shut up Nermin :lol: You were probably born sometime during the war in some foreign country and you stepped into Bosnia for the first time this summer. At least I lived in Yugoslavia for more than 10 years and I can easily say I've been closer to the situation than you have.

I will always believe some people that have been through this, local people as well as UN soldiers that I know here, than listen to some American propaganda. How do you think everything on CNN is propaganda "except Bosnia" ?

Once again you are denying the truth that 25,000 Serbs have been killed. That would be as if I said Srebrenica never happened, which I never said. I feel bad for Srebrenica but I also know nowhere near to 8,000 people have been killed, which is even stated by Gen. Lewis MacKenzie, who was the main UN guy in BiH. MacKenzie is always on Canadian television telling the truth to Canadian citizens. I also know many of the Srebrenica victims were men who slaughtered Serbs previously.

Why are there more Serbs refugees than Bosniak ones? Why has my family left its own town: Gorazde. Who burned my house down? Who beheaded my uncle Nedjo? Who made me run to Canada, and millions of others? Don't be so naive....

You're the naive one, you refuse to believe the facts (stats, results and facts is what you're all about boris to begin with) because they're against Serbia.

It has already been proven that there were 8,000+ Bosniak victims in Srebrenica and counting. Alot of the victims were removed and placed somewhere else and also exhumed like Bosnian Unit stated with raw evidence... all this so the Serbs will take smaller blame and the Naser Oric "massacre of Serbs" (which never happened to begin with) was used to equal the blame 50/50 so the "Serbs would have had a reason to do the same to Bosniaks" even though the Serbs invaded, killed, and expelled Bosniaks even before Naser Oric stepped to repel the Serbs. Great job, you guys turn Naser Oric from hero to villain. All he did was repel the Serbian invasion of Srebrenica way before 1995.

[Saraj Fanático]

Boris, I would like to respond to your last post, the claims about the death toll and fake statistics and the Naser Oric tale. 8,000 names have been released which have never been found. Its a fact you cannot possibly hide. Naser Oric, the guy you claim to be the boogeyman, was released of his accusations. The Hague has released him from any Criminal charges or crimes against humanity during the war.

What I like about your post and any other cetniks response to this massacre is how you use Naser Oric as the event before which triggered a retaliation, being the massacre of muslims. You claim that Naser Oric was this general who killed hundreds and hundreds of Serbs before the genocide took place on the Muslims, using this to justify the event.

Here are some facts for you and company. Before Naser oric was ever in the town or raided it, the town was a scene of genocide by cetniks in the beginning of the war. ICTY judgment has records of the events taking place in Srebrenica in 92 when it was being raided by Serb forces. The town's first exposure to the conflict: "Once towns and villages were securely in their hands, the Serb forces - the military, the police, the paramilitaries and, sometimes, even Serb villagers - applied the same pattern: Muslim houses and apartments were systematically ransacked or burnt down, Muslim villagers were rounded up or captured, and sometimes beaten or killed in the process. Men and women were separated, with many of the men detained in the former KP Dom prison."

Reportedly around 3,000 bodies were found dead near Srebrenica in 92-95. Serbs did exactly what was being done in 95 just in a smaller scale as the civilians were able to retreat much easier because there was no UN to promise them their safety in the zone.

IT WAS FINALLY IN MAY OF 1992 where Naser oric under the BiH Government was ordered to take over Srebrenica and he did so. The operation did cost lives, but then again, its a war. People lose lives in war. But listen here, there is a clear distinction between CASUALTIES OF WAR, and GENOCIDE. Many of your pictures of burnt bodies in Srebrenica can result from artillery. You take a look at the Sarajevo casualties during the siege of the city you can find such remains all over the place. However it wasn't necessarily a planned or organized massacre or genocide (Even though Karadzic made it clear that the entire war is to be a genocide of Muslims).

Next, Naser Oric has been investigated and his military operations were strictly under the laws of warfare, acceptable. Oric's operations after Srebrenica -

# 15-20 May the villages of Viogor, Orahovica and Osredak were attacked. The main objective of these attacks was to link up various Bosniak resistance centres around Srebrenica.[28]
# June 21 and June 27 the village of Ratkovici, and the surrounding villages of Bradjevina, Ducici, and Gornji Ratkovici were attacked by Orić's forces.[29]
# August 8, the villages of Jezestica and Bozici were attacked by forces under the command of Naser Orić.[30]
# 24 September, attacked the village of Podravanje which was on the road between Srebrenica and Žepa.
# 26 September, Orić's forces attacked the villages of Nedeljista and Rogosija near Milici.
# 5 October, Orić attacked Fakovici and other villages along the river Drina. According to a Dutch government report (NIOD report), Orić's forces killed at least 24 Serbs and burned down 120 houses. The attackers also shot at Serbs at the other (i.e. Serbian) side of the Drina. Serb civilians fled on small boats to the other side of the river, in Serbia.[31][32]
# November 6, Bosniak forces, led by Orić, attacked and captured the village of Kamenica. [33]
# December 14 and 19, Bosniak forces and irregulars under the command of Orić attacked the villages of Bjelovac, Voljavica, Loznica, and Sikiric and expelled the Serb population.[34]
# 7 January 1993 (Orthodox Christmas Day), Bosniak forces under Naser Orić captured the Serb village of Kravica and two nearby villages, Siljkovici and Jezestica. An estimated 25 VRS troops and 11 civilians were killed in the attack.[35][36][37]
# 16 January 1993, Orić attacked the village of Skelani, on the border with Serbia. According to a Dutch government investigation, Orić's forces killed an estimated 48 Serbs. However, the attack failed and this marked the beginning of the end of Orić's successes

These are all the operations of his listed by wikipedia and the hague. All these operations were military related and had no accounts of men and women being separated to facilities, one for torture, one for rape, as the cetniks did in Foca. Or the killings of little boys as the cetniks did in Srebrenica. The only thing which Naser did which can be seen as breaking the rules of war is the burning of houses. This can be for countless of reasons. And the expulsion of Serbs was most likely not up to him. As you can see in Dudakovic's tapes of the ambush and fall of Sanski most, Serbs are seen fleeing the town before his troops even stepped foot in it. The same event occurred in these places attacked by Oric.

What I wonder is, if Naser's mission was to cut Serb throats all over Srebrenica and completely end their presence, how come the Serbs became the majority in this small town which had a population of above 70% Bosniaks in the time period of 1 year? That my friend is an indication of genocide. A population of 70% dropping to some 10%? how? Exactly...

Naser Oric in an interview has said, if the Hague wants to sentence him he is ready to give himself up. And he did as he promised. He didn't run from the law. He gave justice to countless of Serbs who accused him of these crimes. He basically satisfied the wishes of all of them by not being some coward and fleeing his house forever. Here is an interview where Oric displays how a true responsible general and man acts, not like Mladic who ran from the law and feels fine with the blood of so many on his hands. What more do you want? He returned TWICE (One time on the wishes of Serbs) to the court and was freed of the propaganda you just posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd0oc4t2-Hc
"JA NE BIJEZIM OD SUDA, SAMO TREBATE ME POZVATI I NIKAKAV PROBLEM NIJE!"

One more fact of Srebrenica under Naser, he was even visited by the UN protection force. Its General, Philippe Morillon of France has seen no signs or scenes of Genocide taking place. And, it was then when the UN was able to declare it a Save zone and Naser Oric trusted them on their word and eventually left the city with his men abandoning their weapons.

The Serbs are making imaginary events which only occured in their own historic periods and their centuries of fantasies. If Naser Oric was a criminal and butcher, he would be locked up now. He would have ran from the hague, and those Serbs would not be sleeping in peace now (Those who really thought he did what he was accused of by those certain Serbs) those who still believe he did what the propaganda made claims will not sleep in peace however. Where is our peace? Mladic and Karadzic (Reportedly seen in Foca the other day drinking coffee) have not given no such relief to those killed by their actions. Yet again the Serbs are the victims and those to be mourned.

You should be ashamed using those pics to prove a point. Almost every one of those pictures came from the MUJAHIDEEN (A INDEPENDENT FORCE WITHOUT THE GOVERNMENTS CONTROL) who operated mainly around Tuzla and attacked small villages. So please stop saying they are proof of Srtebrenica killings when many of them haven't got nothing to do with the town and took place in small villages.

You want to illustrate something but using gory pictures of those killed and murdered (I unlike you have the balls to admit to some of our crimes), just as I can give you tons of pictures of headless Muslims and burnt remains of children, women, men. There is no indication of a single thing with that my boy. What I gave you is something to work with, it cannot be denied, nor is there any doubts.

Stop coming up with propaganda (It will save you headaches and embarrassments) and admit your crimes in Croatia, BiH, and Kosovo. Stop trying to compare our crimes to cetnik crimes. its comparing ground and air. Our scale of killings in minor stuff to the genocide war you declared.

[Saraj Fanático]

Double post, pardon.

[Saraj Fanático]

Sorry about the long post. Came out bigger then I thought.

[nb-legenda]

Saraj, you know he won't read that just like he didn't read Bosnian Unit's response. It's best when you post like 4 posts each being one small paragraph, because then he's more likely to read. He's trying to avoid the truth as much as possible, because it's against his own country.

[nb-legenda]

you read this boris?:

Naser Oric in an interview has said, if the Hague wants to sentence him he is ready to give himself up. And he did as he promised. He didn't run from the law. He gave justice to countless of Serbs who accused him of these crimes. He basically satisfied the wishes of all of them by not being some coward and fleeing his house forever. Here is an interview where Oric displays how a true responsible general and man acts, not like Mladic who ran from the law and feels fine with the blood of so many on his hands. What more do you want? He returned TWICE (One time on the wishes of Serbs) to the court and was freed of the propaganda you just posted.

and don't forget this:

You should be ashamed using those pics to prove a point. Almost every one of those pictures came from the MUJAHIDEEN (A INDEPENDENT FORCE WITHOUT THE GOVERNMENTS CONTROL) who operated mainly around Tuzla and attacked small villages. So please stop saying they are proof of Srtebrenica killings when many of them haven't got nothing to do with the town and took place in small villages.

You want to illustrate something but using gory pictures of those killed and murdered (I unlike you have the balls to admit to some of our crimes), just as I can give you tons of pictures of headless Muslims and burnt remains of children, women, men. There is no indication of a single thing with that my boy. What I gave you is something to work with, it cannot be denied, nor is there any doubts.
-----------------------

just in case you are too lazy to read the "truth", like most other cowards and naive fools who try to avoid it and refuse to believe it, believing they're the real victims in the Bosnian War, those that don't have the balls to admit the truth

[Bosnian Unit]

QUOTE: The two highest ranking Serb politicians from Bosnia and Herzegovina, Radovan Karadžić and Momčilo Krajišnik, were warned by military commander General Ratko Mladić, also indicted on genocide charges, that their plans could not be committed without committing genocide.

People are not little stones, or keys in someone's pocket, that can be moved from one place to another just like that … Therefore, we cannot precisely arrange for only Serbs to stay in one part of the country while removing others painlessly. I do not know how Mr Krajišnik and Mr Karadžić will explain that to the world. That is genocide, said Mladić.

QUOTE: "This, what you are doing, is not good. This is the path that you want to take Bosnia and Herzegovina on, the same highway of hell and death that Slovenia and Croatia went on. Don't think that you won't take Bosnia and Herzegovina into hell, and the Muslim people maybe into extinction. Because the Muslim people cannot defend themselves if there is war here." -Radovan Karadžić, speaking at the Bosnian parliament[1], October 14, 1991. (The term "Muslim people" refers to the Bosniaks.)


QUOTE: "Sarajevans will not be counting the dead. They will be counting the living" -Radovan Karadžić in an interview regarding the siege of Sarajevo, 1993

Now you will never find anything about Bosnian president or generals or whoever who was saying something like this.

Yes i admit, there was individual crime commited mostly by Mujahadeens from other countries.

But they where not controled by ARBIH, or Bosnian government !


While you have a Serb generals and RS ''government'' members saying how there will be NO MUSLIMS in Bosnia anymore, how they will killl us, force us out ect.....


Just one thing boris................why did Serbs try to take over Bihac,Sarajevo,Mostar,Tuzla and other cities where Serbs where not majority ? What was your intention ?

[boris4c]

What was my intention? It's a war, your goal is to gain as much territory as possible. The country is falling apart into 5 smaller ones: your goal is to make your country the biggest you can. If Bosniaks had the power the Serbs had, they would've tried to do the same, but they simply couldn't as pretty much all they could do is defend, sometimes penetrate a region and kill the civils, but that was it. It was a lucky intervention by NATO and foreign countries.

PS. If the Serbs wanted to kill everybody, they would've killed everybody, and not "only" 60,000 Bosniaks. What or who could've possibly stopped them from doing so? Nothing.

I know tons of stories of people who saved Bosniaks, and vice versa. People were neighbours and friends before the war, you can't just kill a friend or a neighbour.

I'm repeating the question of why am I in Canada now? Who burned down my house in Gorazde and who behaded my uncle Nedjo, dead in 1992? It wasn't the mujahideens. 100%.

[Bosnian Unit]

What was my intention? It's a war, your goal is to gain as much territory as possible. The country is falling apart into 5 smaller ones: your goal is to make your country the biggest you can. If Bosniaks had the power the Serbs had, they would've tried to do the same, but they simply couldn't as pretty much all they could do is defend, sometimes penetrate a region and kill the civils, but that was it. It was a lucky intervention by NATO and foreign countries.

PS. If the Serbs wanted to kill everybody, they would've killed everybody, and not "only" 60,000 Bosniaks. What or who could've possibly stopped them from doing so? Nothing.

I know tons of stories of people who saved Bosniaks, and vice versa. People were neighbours and friends before the war, you can't just kill a friend or a neighbour.

I'm repeating the question of why am I in Canada now? Who burned down my house in Gorazde and who behaded my uncle Nedjo, dead in 1992? It wasn't the mujahideens. 100%.

So you are admiting there was agression on allready independent country of BIH !

You think its OK to burn down mosques(churches), kill and force out other people, and make your country big as possible just becouse there was a war ?

The war you started in Slovenia and ended in Kosovo. The war that at the end made people of Montenegro who are Christians and 99% simular to Serbs break away from Serbia becouse you created sick society wich is still run on propaganda, and false promises.

But i can see you are still inspired by that propaganda and those false promises.

I tought you where smarter then that Boris !

[boris4c]

Montenegro is Muslim by nearly 25% and that is the only reason why it has split from Serbia, by 0.4% win.

The war in Yugoslavia is a civil war, not an aggresion. Bosniaks aggressed Serbs, Serbs Bosniaks, Serbs Croats, Croats Serbs, etc. Croatia kicked out 300,000 Serbs from Croatia on a land which was predominantly Serbian for centuries. This is also an aggression. The Sarajevo siege is an aggression. All the events are aggressions, but it was also a civil war in the country of Yugoslavia. How can you say it's an aggression on an already independent country when 2 days before you were part of another country.

Also I'm not saying it's OK to burn down mosques/churches, kill people, etc. just because there is a war. I am saying those things WILL HAPPEN, they have always happened during wars and will continue to happen because that's what war IS.

Unfortunately, one day there will be another war in BiH and thousands will lose their lives again. All the progress that has been done will be destroyed and everybody will have to start from zero again. BiH is the country with the most internal problems, ethnic hatred, ethnic division, and disfunctionalities in the whole world. It functions better than some African countries and such, but you get the point. If Yugoslavia couldn't exist, how can BiH? It's only a smaller version.

[The Joker]

as much as you don't like it... it's the UN's job

The United Nations (UN) is an international organization whose stated aims are to facilitate cooperation in international law, international security, economic development, social progress and human rights. The UN was founded in 1945 to replace the League of Nations, to stop wars between nations and to provide a platform for dialogue.


Yes, the UN Nermin...Not the west. Anyhow, you have not given me one reason where I thought yup we need to send other countries young men in to die to stop this happening. If i was Dutch and felt threatened i'd have done a runner too. Why should I take a bullet for a Bosnian who sure as hell wouldn't take one for me? Get out of your cocoon. The strong prospered while the weak perished, it has happened forever and will continue to do so...None of what happened is the UN or the wests fault.

[The Joker]

What was my intention? It's a war, your goal is to gain as much territory as possible. The country is falling apart into 5 smaller ones: your goal is to make your country the biggest you can. If Bosniaks had the power the Serbs had, they would've tried to do the same, but they simply couldn't as pretty much all they could do is defend, sometimes penetrate a region and kill the civils, but that was it. It was a lucky intervention by NATO and foreign countries.

PS. If the Serbs wanted to kill everybody, they would've killed everybody, and not "only" 60,000 Bosniaks. What or who could've possibly stopped them from doing so? Nothing.

I know tons of stories of people who saved Bosniaks, and vice versa. People were neighbours and friends before the war, you can't just kill a friend or a neighbour.

I'm repeating the question of why am I in Canada now? Who burned down my house in Gorazde and who behaded my uncle Nedjo, dead in 1992? It wasn't the mujahideens. 100%.


Yes, if the Bosniaks had the POWER the Serbs had they would have wiped the Serb race out. A lot of it is sour grapes because the Serbs won the war.

[nb-legenda]

^ What happened to Naser Oric and Srebrenica and everything else Mr. Smart guy? Why are you changing topics now?

Gaining territory doesn't mean attempting a genocide of Bosniaks which has been confirmed by the tribunal as a "genocide". I hope you actually didn't support Milosevic, Karadzic, Mladic, etc. Borise...

[nb-legenda]

Yes, if the Bosniaks had the POWER the Serbs had they would have wiped the Serb race out. A lot of it is sour grapes because the Serbs won the war.

How in god's name has Serbia won the war? In fact, because of the war, they put themselves in deep shit which will last for a very long time, both in BiH, Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, and parts of Serbia such as Vojvodina. They lost their reputation towards EU, UN, and whatever organization there is, and so many other things.

ROFL @ "Noz Zica Srebrenica" banners, they're just promoting their own downfall and besides... how do they have any pride in killing women and young children and attempting genocide.

[The Joker]

Serbia did win the war. It is clear to everyone but Bosnians that they are the powerhouse of the Balkans region. Yup I thought Milosevic had good intentions for Serbia. And as I love Serbia then that is all I care about. Bosnians were just as much if not MORE to blame for war crimes.

[The Joker]

Nermin, you dunno what you are talkin about. You weren't even born when this was goin on. You are just an uninformed American with about as much knowledge on this subject as the American students who you poke fun at. If you knew anything you would know why it was essential for Serbia to remain the Kingpin of the Balkans.

It is a bit like ENGLAND and Scotland....SERBIA, Bosnia. Serbia will always be the power, so just deal with it.

[nb-legenda]

Serbia did win the war. It is clear to everyone but Bosnians that they are the powerhouse of the Balkans region. Yup I thought Milosevic had good intentions for Serbia. And as I love Serbia then that is all I care about. Bosnians were just as much if not MORE to blame for war crimes.

:suspiciou
Step away from that lager old man :lol: you need some rest

PS: why did you support Milosevic? because he attempted genocide ??

[nb-legenda]

Nermin, you dunno what you are talkin about. You weren't even born when this was goin on. You are just an uninformed American with about as much knowledge on this subject as the American students who you poke fun at. If you knew anything you would know why it was essential for Serbia to remain the Kingpin of the Balkans.

It is a bit like ENGLAND and Scotland....SERBIA, Bosnia. Serbia will always be the power, so just deal with it.

I don't give one crap who's the power but that doesn't mean they have to go killing Muslims for no reason and attempting genocide on innocent people.

Besides, get back on topic old man, this is all about Srebrenica, we all know Serbia is to blame for more than 80% of what has happened in Bosnian War, that's undeniable, I don't know what you're smoking or drinking, but you need some pills.

I don't blame you, things happen when you get too old, maybe it's time for you to leave SFN?

[The Joker]

Why? Cos i'm telling you the truth? Stop giving me your muslim sob stories. Bosnians were just as much to blame. The Serbs had a duty to stop them.

[The Joker]

And Nermin...I'll decide when i leave SFN not you. Yet another freakin Bosnian on a power trip trying to get everything his own way.

200% of the flame wars in SFN are caused by Bosnians. :sad:

[nb-legenda]

Why? Cos i'm telling you the truth? Stop giving me your muslim sob stories. Bosnians were just as much to blame. The Serbs had a duty to stop them.

you talk like something totally different happened in the Bosnian War :lol: the war's written like a book, the tribunal, UN, and everyone else knows what happened. no one cares what a peasant thinks about the war :violin:

[The Joker]

You still haven't given me one good reason why Brits or Americans should die for this cause? Yeah like i've ever seen Bosnains help ayone? :shocked:

[el Turco]

Dupont, I guess you really think genocide is acceptable as long as you have more power.


Really sad....

[nb-legenda]

he lost all morality over the years, sad, old man has no heart anymore

[Pape]

800,000 Serbs killed in concentration camps in WWII
Over a million killed in WWI
NOBODY cares to remember. The Serbian President went to pay respect to the Srebrenica victims 2 years ago. What have the Bosniaks and Croats done to pay respect to the Serbs they killed? And as for the Turk I've seen your respect torwards Armenian genocides in the Turkish genocide threads.

[The Joker]

Dupont, I guess you really think genocide is acceptable as long as you have more power.


Really sad....


Not true at all. I am just sayin it isn't all about Bosnians and they were just as bad, if not worse. Also, my point is that Nermin just cries about the west and how poor or evil they are. If he thinks the west is so bad he is welcome to go live back in The Balkans. oh wait! He never lived there before. :sad: None of what happened in the Balkans is the fault of the west.

Personally I don't ever want to see troops of the west killed when things like this happens. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't...If we step in we are invaders and if we are asked to go in we are criticised and if we do nothing we are useless...So guess what? I don't care get on with it and kill one another, but don' ever have the nerve o point the finger at the west. Nermin is a traitor of the USA. I have reported him to Homeland Security.

So smoke on that one cos i really don't give a shite!

[The Joker]

800,000 Serbs killed in concentration camps in WWII
Over a million killed in WWI
NOBODY cares to remember. The Serbian President went to pay respect to the Srebrenica victims 2 years ago. What have the Bosniaks and Croats done to pay respect to the Serbs they killed? And as for the Turk I've seen your respect torwards Armenian genocides in the Turkish genocide threads.

Too true Pape. Really Bosniaks (I mean Americans) like Nermin are huge hypocrites. I am not a sad old man Nermin. I just have much more knowledge than you. Grow up little boy!

[Lance Knight]

Not true at all. I am just sayin it isn't all about Bosnians and they were just as bad, if not worse. Also, my point is that Nermin just cries about the west and how poor or evil they are. If he thinks the west is so bad he is welcome to go live back in The Balkans. oh wait! He never lived there before. :sad: None of what happened in the Balkans is the fault of the west.

Personally I don't ever want to see troops of the west killed when things like this happens. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't...If we step in we are invaders and if we are asked to go in we are criticised and if we do nothing we are useless...So guess what? I don't care get on with it and kill one another, but don' ever have the nerve o point the finger at the west. Nermin is a traitor of the USA. I have reported him to Homeland Security.

So smoke on that one cos i really don't give a shite!
great post dude, really great post..........
u beat me to the punch there......

++++ reps on that post

[The Joker]

^ I have my good ponts. ;)

[Saraj Fanático]

What was my intention? It's a war, your goal is to gain as much territory as possible. The country is falling apart into 5 smaller ones: your goal is to make your country the biggest you can. If Bosniaks had the power the Serbs had, they would've tried to do the same, but they simply couldn't as pretty much all they could do is defend, sometimes penetrate a region and kill the civils, but that was it. It was a lucky intervention by NATO and foreign countries.

Is Srebrneica war? Is the rape which occurred in Foca war? Are the Markale Market massacres a part of war? No, there is a law of war which Cetniks refused to follow. The Army of Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina defended itself and staged attacks from Bihac, every educated Serb knows the successfully take over of Bihac, Sanski Most, Buzim, North Western BiH from Abdic, and so on. There were no genocides taking place whatsoever. Dudakovic was asked in his documentary but a English Woman if he had plans on killing Serbs and burning Churches and his response was: "How dare you ask me that?". The Serb population was taped leaving on its own demands and wishes.

PS. If the Serbs wanted to kill everybody, they would've killed everybody, and not "only" 60,000 Bosniaks. What or who could've possibly stopped them from doing so? Nothing.

Its because Cetniks have no balls. The Siege of Sarajevo holds the record of the LONGEST SIEGE in history of modern warfare. During those years snipers shot everything in sight. Cetniks had one advantage which was armory, other then that they had no will nor determination to fight a well equipped force such as Dudakovic's, Rasim Delic's, Jovan Divjak's etc..

I know tons of stories of people who saved Bosniaks, and vice versa. People were neighbours and friends before the war, you can't just kill a friend or a neighbour.

In a cetnikis case you can, and we have seen that happen. For the sake of "Greater Serbia" it requires killing even your long time friends. Mr Karadzic who studied in Sarajevo and lived freely in the very city he wanted to kill, is a good example of that.

I'm repeating the question of why am I in Canada now? Who burned down my house in Gorazde and who behaded my uncle Nedjo, dead in 1992? It wasn't the mujahideens. 100%.

How do you know who killed your uncle? It could have been anybody, don't jump to conclusions. I know some people who fought in Igman and Gorazde and I have never heard such stories of massacres nor is there a record of it. I do not deny your uncle being murdered same as I don't want you deny mine being too. But I am saying that there was no organized genocide occurring around BiH except maybe by some extremists who have nothing to do with our government, the closest thing they had with our government at the time was Izetbegovic visiting their camp.

[Saraj Fanático]

@ Dupont: So the Bosniaks had Srebrenica coming eh? Same as the English had the London Bombing coming? Think about the childish bs you say. And no offense, but the last thing this world needs is some Brit telling the world who is the bad guy after your very own history is built on bloodshed and struggles of others.

[Saraj Fanático]

Serbia did win the war. It is clear to everyone but Bosnians that they are the powerhouse of the Balkans region. Yup I thought Milosevic had good intentions for Serbia. And as I love Serbia then that is all I care about. Bosnians were just as much if not MORE to blame for war crimes.

llllllllllllooooooolllllllll!!

Quote of the Century. The Powerhouse of the balkans fought a people with no weapons for 2 years and their biggest success was Srebrenica. The Siege of Sarajevo lasted for the entire war against people with nothing to defend them selfs with as I stated already. They had their success in 92, but come 94 when the Bosnians started to arm up, things got a big hard and Serbs started losing territory like a charm. Read about the Bosnian Conflict and Operation Storm, and Operation Sana. The Dayton Peace agreement came because of fear of the Bosnian Serb capital collapsing. There is an entire documentary on it. Every war Serbs were involved with resulted in the massacres of the innocent with no increase of land for the "Greater Serbia" dream. They lost in all of the Balkan conflicts.

[Pape]

I don't in any way shape or form believe in brutallity of people against people buttt... Clearly the only end result of this war was a Greater Muslim state (which failed in reality), a Greater Croat, and now a attempt at a Greater Albania. I do not see where this logic for a Greater Serbia state is. If the Craots, Muslims don't want to live with Serbs, than why don't the Serbs have a right to live together in their own state as well?

[Andygers]

^ I have my good ponts. ;) I think you are making a very good point on this matter!

[nb-legenda]

@ Dupont: So the Bosniaks had Srebrenica coming eh? Same as the English had the London Bombing coming? Think about the childish bs you say. And no offense, but the last thing this world needs is some Brit telling the world who is the bad guy after your very own history is built on bloodshed and struggles of others.

AGREED! :lol:

[nb-legenda]

llllllllllllooooooolllllllll!!

Quote of the Century. The Powerhouse of the balkans fought a people with no weapons for 2 years and their biggest success was Srebrenica. The Siege of Sarajevo lasted for the entire war against people with nothing to defend them selfs with as I stated already. They had their success in 92, but come 94 when the Bosnians started to arm up, things got a big hard and Serbs started losing territory like a charm. Read about the Bosnian Conflict and Operation Storm, and Operation Sana. The Dayton Peace agreement came because of fear of the Bosnian Serb capital collapsing. There is an entire documentary on it. Every war Serbs were involved with resulted in the massacres of the innocent with no increase of land for the "Greater Serbia" dream. They lost in all of the Balkan conflicts.

Respect :yo: Dupont doesn't even know what the hell Operation Sana or Storm are, he just talks with his eyes closed how Bosniaks are to blame when they weren't even at fault to begin with.

Dupont, you're such an idiot. I didn't say innocent people from the west have to give their lives for a Bosniak or whatever war there is. UN is the whole damn world organization, not just the west.

"The United Nations (UN) is an international organization whose stated aims are to facilitate cooperation in international law, international security, economic development, social progress and human rights."

It's their job you nut! They don't have to kill themselves to save Bosniaks, but they could've bombed artillery and destroyed armory of Serbian army to enforce peace, they could've done a whole lot of stuff. It was UN's failure to let happen Srebrenica, Foca, etc. where more than 8,000 innocent victims died for NO REASON

And yes I'm an American citizen like a Bosnian citizen, and I'm damn proud of it. I only speak to help the country out, not to insult it you twit. Do you know Jesse Ventura, he's had quite a couple of interviews in CNN, you might want to type his name down on youtube. He talks about all these things USA could fix, but he's not insulting this country, he's talking down on how the country's run. If he hated the country like you say I do, he would never even give ideas to help the country prosper

"Nermin is a traitor of the USA. I have reported him to Homeland Security."

^ what an idiot! an All-American kid in school to be a traitor of USA! what nonsense you speak of sir! :lol:

[el Turco]

I think you are making a very good point on this matter!

Like this one???


It is a bit like ENGLAND and Scotland....SERBIA, Bosnia. Serbia will always be the power, so just deal with it.

:)

[Andygers]

^ No I was actually referring to the one about the west being held responsible for all of this.

I completely disagree with the point above because thats just him being plain arrogant.

[el Turco]

^ No I was actually referring to the one about the west being held responsible for all of this.

I completely disagree with the point above because thats just him being plain arrogant.

So, let's say England decides invade Scotland, and wipe off all Scottish people. They torture them, murder them, rape them, and kill them. And no other country in the world gives a shit about millions of Scottish people getting killed. How would you feel????

Do you guys also think the West should not have intervened with Nazi Germany, and just let it grow all around the world????

[nb-legenda]

So, let's say England decides invade Scotland, and wipe off all Scottish people. They torture them, murder them, rape them, and kill them. And no other country in the world gives a shit about millions of Scottish people getting killed. How would you feel????

Do you guys also think the West should not have intervened with Nazi Germany, and just let it grow all around the world????

AGREED. say it how it is brotha :smoking:

[Andygers]

So, let's say England decides invade Scotland, and wipe off all Scottish people. They torture them, murder them, rape them, and kill them. And no other country in the world gives a shit about millions of Scottish people getting killed. How would you feel???? That used to happen a lot here a couple hundred years ago and we always fought for our selfs but England will not do that now because they are a stable country. I am not saying that the world shouldn't care but I think that the west (especially the UK) did their bit trying to help in a war that we didn't need to be in.

Do you guys also think the West should not have intervened with Nazi Germany, and just let it grow all around the world???? That is the big difference between those wars, Nazi Germany wanted to take over the world and posed a massive threat so we had to intervene, whereas Serbia were not going to take over the world so we didn't have to help but we did!

[el Turco]

That used to happen a lot here a couple hundred years ago and we always fought for our selfs but England will not do that now because they are a stable country. I am not saying that the world shouldn't care but I think that the west (especially the UK) did their bit trying to help in a war that we didn't need to be in.

I dont really know about the whole situation between England and Scotland and their history, but I dont think English attempted a genocide, did they? I believe it was only a war. And that happen hundreds of years ago. Was international affairs same as now? Was there hundreds of international treaties banning torture of any sort? Things were different hundreds of years ago. :)



That is the big difference between those wars, Nazi Germany wanted to take over the world and posed a massive threat so we had to intervene, whereas Serbia were not going to take over the world so we didn't have to help but we did!

Who is to say Milosevic was going to stop after they conquered whole Balkans. Guy had a dream of Greater Serbia, and Im sure if he succeeded with wars against Bosnia, Croatia and other Balkan countries, rest of Europe would be next destination. :)

[Andygers]

I dont really know about the whole situation between England and Scotland and their history, but I dont think English attempted a genocide, did they? I believe it was only a war. And that happen hundreds of years ago. Was international affairs same as now? Was there hundreds of international treaties banning torture of any sort? Things were different hundreds of years ago. :) You do make a point but the west was not obliged to help out over there but we did and I hate it when people say that we failed them and yet if we helped any more they would say we should have stayed away.

Who is to say Milosevic was going to stop after they conquered whole Balkans. Guy had a dream of Greater Serbia, and Im sure if he succeeded with wars against Bosnia, Croatia and other Balkan countries, rest of Europe would be next destination. :) I highly doubt that Serbia would have taken over the whole of Europe because here are the facts 240 million people live in the UK, Germany, Italy and France and you think that they would have allowed one nation to take over!

I do feel really sorry for what happened to Bosnia because it was unfair but I think you should blame others before the west!

[el Turco]

You do make a point but the west was not obliged to help out over there but we did and I hate it when people say that we failed them and yet if we helped any more they would say we should have stayed away.

I highly doubt that Serbia would have taken over the whole of Europe because here are the facts 240 million people live in the UK, Germany, Italy and France and you think that they would have allowed one nation to take over!

I do feel really sorry for what happened to Bosnia because it was unfair but I think you should blame others before the west!

Population of the nation does not matter. How many people did Nazi Germany have?

I do understand your reasoning, and I respect it, because everybody has their own opinion, but I feel differently.

And, Im sure you've read this is in one of my previous posts, but even Richard Holbrooke said it was the biggest failure of west.

:)

[Andygers]

Population of the nation does not matter. How many people did Nazi Germany have? 110 million if you include the Poles, Dutch and Hungarians involved. Which is a considerable amount. However by the time all nations on the allies side got together there were about 300 million people on our side.

[The Joker]

I think you are making a very good point on this matter!

Thanks Andy. I know i am making an excellent point. The point is in war BOTH sides commit atrocities. After all it is war eh? The strong survive and weak perish. And not one Bosnian in here has given me a valid reason why this makes the west useless?

[The Joker]

Look at it this way...If the west just go in then fanatics get back by becoming suicide bombers, if we sit back and wait we get told we are useless, if we go in under the UN then our troops come under attack and fanatic suicide bombers start again. The West just can't win for trying...So yup, i would not alllow one drop of western blood to be spilled over this...It is war, the strong survive and the weak persish. When did Bosnia ever do anything for the west? Like never.

A typical example of how the west is repaid is shown on the streets of London and New York...Some thanks eh? And then you get the likes of Nermin bitching "But The West is Useless Grow up! Nermin, The West gave you a new start in life and rescued your ass. I bet you don't talk like this in front of your American friends cos the Rednecks would kick your ungrateful ass! You have been offered a new start from a country with untold wealth who took you in and the sky is now the limit. And all you do is mock them and make fun of its citizens...Nermin Bibic hang your head in shame and move back to Bosnia if it means so much to you. If not just shut up cos we don't wanna hear it!

[Andygers]

Look at it this way...If the west just go in then fanatics get back by becoming suicide bombers, if we sit back and wait we get told we are useless, if we go in under the UN then our troops come under attack and fanatic suicide bombers start again. The West just can't win for trying...So yup, i would not alllow one drop of western blood to be spilled over this Exactly man, this is how I feel . Why should the west be blamed every time we do anything! I am getting sick of it!

[nb-legenda]

you know what Dupont, ***k you. all I hear from you is how what Serbs have done is right and how you don't like Bosnians. I don't give one crap what you say about me and how I should move back to Bosna i Hercegovina. You think this is my life like yours? your life is going to SFN in the Safari Lounge, SAD, get a job old man

[boris4c]

Nermin suddenly gets pissed off when Dupont tells him the naked truth before his eyes. Nermin loses control and starts swearing, sweating and insulting.

Dupont never said what the Serbs did was right. Dupont ever said he doesn't like Bosnians. That's just the way you understand it, because you understand nothing. Dupont was simply saying all sides are to blame. If you think Serbs are to blame for 80% you must be a pure idiot. Only Bosniaks of your kind believe this and you get brainwashed even more by Bosnian Unit's propagande articles even when you stepped in BiH for the first time in your life this summer. The West took care of you and gave you everything you have in your life. It gave you an education, it gave you money, food, clothes, etc. This is how you thank it. You tell us Serbs to move out of BiH if we don't like it, then why don't you pack up your things and move to BiH if you don't like the West? Stop being a huge hypocrite like always. You always think you're right and that you know everything, but in fact all the things you know are things you read from the internet (one-sided Bosniak stories off Bosniak sites and such) and the things America has taught you.

Don't tell Dupont where his life is going or to get a job. I'm sure he has a better life than you'll ever have because you're too obsessed with things you have no idea about and you stress out because your country fails at everything it attempts. Your country is always the best, the rest sucks. The West sucks, everybody sucks, only Bosniaks don't. If it wasn't for the West your country wouldn't even exist, maybe you wouldn't be alive today. If it wasn't for the West, Bosniaks would've got far worst than what they actually got. Stop crying and accusing the West because it saved your life and gave you a fresh start. "Heljp Baznija, heljp!" The UN fed the people during the war. If you think the UN should've started shooting the Serbs to stop them, you must be a complete idiot. How many lives would the UN have lost? Thousands. For what? The UN peacekeeping force's mission is indeed to KEEP the peace, not to make it, or defend civilians under attack.

I sure as hell don't support America's policy of imperialism supported by many Western countries, but I can assure you it saved your life and gave a lot of your countrymen and my countrymen a fresh new start, wether education, jobs, opprortunities, etc.

You're lucky the war in BiH didn't happen after 9/11, because I'm sure as hell we wouldn't even be talking today.

[nb-legenda]

Not tonight, but tomorrow I'll quote every one of your stupid sentences boris

[Saraj Fanático]

I don't in any way shape or form believe in brutallity of people against people buttt... Clearly the only end result of this war was a Greater Muslim state (which failed in reality), a Greater Croat, and now a attempt at a Greater Albania. I do not see where this logic for a Greater Serbia state is. If the Craots, Muslims don't want to live with Serbs, than why don't the Serbs have a right to live together in their own state as well?

So now its the fault of Bosniaks and Croats!? Oh my god when will Serbs ever admit their mistakes!? Pape, look at the conflicts in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo, what do they all have in common? Serbs. Why, Serbs wanted it all for their Greater Serbia. The world knows that, well, whoever studied the war at least. Croats and Muslims want to live with Serbs. In BiH that is shown with the Federation, but the Serbs ask for their own Entity. What does that state about their will to live in peace with these two people?

[Saraj Fanático]

You're lucky the war in BiH didn't happen after 9/11, because I'm sure as hell we wouldn't even be talking today.


We would be talking. The war would have ended on a better note had it not been for the US to end plans for the Sana offensive against Cetnik strongholds. We survived 3 years without the west and we proved that we have the heart and determination to survive. We fought 2 fronts with barely anything and we survived with our knowledge (Croats in the early staged of the conflict, and Serbs). We have pulled off a historic miracle. Then again, it doesn't take much of a miracle when your fighting armies who have leaders like this guy who can't put a sentence together...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g_2TEU1FGY

[Saraj Fanático]

I won't even bother responding to Dupont after his comments of civilians having slaughter "coming to them" or the historic Serbs being a Balkan powerhouse comment. Nermin, this guy knows as much about the Balkan conflict as I know about what Arkan is trying to say in the video I posted.

[nb-legenda]

Da ti nesto kazem Borise...

Dupont ever said he doesn't like Bosnians.
^ then you don't read his posts... in some threads, he says "Bosnia's pathetic, they'll never qualify for World Cup"... in others he insults Bosnia in a different way

Dupont was simply saying all sides are to blame. If you think Serbs are to blame for 80% you must be a pure idiot.
^ hahaha, just explain... please just explain how Serbs shouldn't take the majority of the blame... when they've started all the wars in Croatia, Kosovo, Bosnia, etc. attempted genocides in Srebrenica, Foca, etc. Tell me how it's wrong to defend yourself? I'm sorry your full strength, armory, triple the men, etc. wasn't enough to take over Bosnia who hardly had any weapons and much less people LOLL

Only Bosniaks of your kind believe this and you get brainwashed even more by Bosnian Unit's propagande articles even when you stepped in BiH for the first time in your life this summer.
^ And you getting brainwashed from Serbianna nationalist articles. Tell me, how are Bosnian Unit's articles propaganda? He's proved everything... it's you who haven't given me raw evidence about the "fake" Naser Oric massacre and other things, and about that "serb" who got his head cut off, he proved that that was a Bosnian. You know as well as I do that Serbs tried to even the blame in Srebrenica :lol:

The West took care of you and gave you everything you have in your life. It gave you an education, it gave you money, food, clothes, etc. This is how you thank it.
^ MAJOR MISUNDERSTANDING !!!!!!! In my earlier posts, I was saying how the UN failed to avoid Srebrenica massacre! I didn't mention anything else! Everybody with atleast one eye and an ear knows that the UN could've stopped the genocide... could've bombed Serbian artillery, tanks, etc. but they sat there and painfully watched thousands perishing. Do you know anything about Richard Holbrooke? Even he said that that was the biggest failure of the "west". I don't get the deal how you guys think I don't like America and the west. I just don't get it. I try to say one thing about Srebrenica, and you guys stretch it like I blame the west for everything.

You tell us Serbs to move out of BiH if we don't like it, then why don't you pack up your things and move to BiH if you don't like the West?
^You always assume things. If you read any of my posts other than in the Bosnian section, you would know I have close ties with Germany and the United States of America. I was saying how the west just watched Srebrenica massacre without doing anything and you stretch it like I blame the west for everything that's happened when it was limited to Srebrenica only. I know your strategies, you try to pull the right moment to embarrass me.

Don't tell Dupont where his life is going or to get a job. I'm sure he has a better life than you'll ever have because you're too obsessed with things you have no idea about and you stress out because your country fails at everything it attempts.
^you honestly think I give one shit about my country's failures? I only discuss about my country here in SFN, you honestly believe I'm like Dupont and limit my life in SFN?? I have a life spent with AMERICANS that has nothing to do with football, let alone my country and you say I'm extreme about what my country does. I don't give one shit about that, I care about myself and what I'm going to do. I'm not like you, DZ, Pape, etc. who hide in their country's shadows, don't carve my name into that line, the line I don't belong in.

Your country is always the best, the rest sucks. The West sucks, everybody sucks, only Bosniaks don't.
^ explain, do you honestly think I said anything about west sucking when I only said the west didn't do anything when thousands perished in Srebrenica? Just think for one moment, look at another side of the story for once Boris. How would you feel if like 7,000 Serbs died in a death camp without the UN stepping in and just watching it happen. How would you feel if you were one of them, how would you feel if you see your family in there dying when it COULD'VE been stopped??

If it wasn't for the West your country wouldn't even exist, maybe you wouldn't be alive today. If it wasn't for the West, Bosniaks would've got far worst than what they actually got. Stop crying and accusing the West because it saved your life and gave you a fresh start.
^ I didn't say anything about the west in the whole Bosnian War, I only limited it to SREBRENICA!!! I'M TALKING ABOUT SREBRENICA NOT THE BOSNIAN WAR IN GENERAL, THANK YOU TO THE AMERICANS AND OTHERS WHO HELPED US (even though if you're gonna help, at least do it earlier) BUT SREBRENICA WAS A SHOW FOR SPECTATORS AROUND THE WORLD TO WATCH. Borise, stop assuming and saying I hate the west.

"Heljp Baznija, heljp!"
^ no actually, in America, I pronounce Bosnia like with the Bosnian "o" not "a"... so I would pronounce it "Boznija" (you