name issues during NATO meetings

[PAO_HELLAS]

Greece has put a veto on FYROM already and they will not join NATO. Greece will also veto FYROM's bid for the E.U. as well. So until FYROM changes its name without the word "Macedonia" in it, as Greece also has a province named Macedonia, then FYROM will be going no where.

Unfortunately things aren't like this. Our government had to put a veto with the current situation, otherwise they would fall. However they are going to accept Skopia in NATO or EU if they set a compound name which is going to include the word "Macedonia" while the people don't accept any name which is going to include "Macedonia". Out government is provoking by ignoring the opinion of the people which elected them, and they say that decision about national issues need a mature behavior. In other issues they evoke the will of the people, now they ignore it because of the American pressure.

[poutismalakas]

Unfortunately things aren't like this. Our government had to put a veto with the current situation, otherwise they would fall. However they are going to accept Skopia in NATO or EU if they set a compound name which is going to include the word "Macedonia" while the people don't accept any name which is going to include "Macedonia". Out government is provoking by ignoring the opinion of the people which elected them, and they say that decision about national issues need a mature behavior. In other issues they evoke the will of the people, now they ignore it because of the American pressure.

I say Greece should stall as long as possible because Bush is out in Jan. 09. Also we should politicing the top candidates!

[poutismalakas]

I can't say if FYROM will be majority Albanian, (not nessesarily) ..

But I can tell you, that Western Part of FYROM, WAS and IS majority Ethnic Albanian ! The ethnic Albanians of western Fyrom even still to these day call that part of the country, with its original ancient name, ILIRIDA the ancient name of that tribe, so they are the real Iliridans. and FYROMANIANS are.. well we all know what they are, (bulgar-serbian mixed ppl) , which means Ethnic Albanians have equal rights and as well can , consider fyrom as their own country as like as "fyromanians" can. (that is of course if we still want a FYROM country in its actual Borders)


quick questions do you deny that IF the Illyrians in the Romano-Byzantine Prefecture of Illyria could sustain their culturally and linguitice indentity till today then why not accept that those slavs who live in the balkans can have Illyrian blood and have the same claim to land as the Albanians claim!??

[Panathinaikos2]

Albania and Greece generaly have Ok relations and remember that the ALBANIAN HERO Skenderbeg did libertate alot of greek terrortory in the fight against The Ottomans.

but on Topic now Macedonians are the ethnic kin of the Bulgarians but half of their terrortoiry was taken over by Greece so why do not they call FYROM - North Macedonia - it makes sense.Why do some of you people insist on calling the people of FYROM "Macedonians"?? Do you guys actually believe that these people are part of the Hellenic Macedonian tribe that is a great part of the history of Greece??? The people of FYROM are slavs and we most certainly know that Alexander the Great wasn't a slav! Now, if you want to know where to find real Macedonians, then you can do so by going to the ancient Macedonian city of Salonika which is in the Greek province of Macedonia, just below FYROM. There you can find people that speack the language of Alexander and Phillip which is Greek ;)

[Bosnian Unit]

So how FYR ''Macedonia'' got that name ?

I dont know much about their history, and especeily about the name problem.

What is the name that they should use for their country then ?

Dont take this personal, but if the name Macedonia is so important to Greece, why Greece didnt call itself Macedonia then you would be able to push Macedonians to do something about it !

Like this i dont see it happening !

I feel nothing for or against Macedonians/Greeks, i just dont understand that whole thing !

And last question, by what name we should call ''Macedonians'' ?



________________________

I just started to read about this thing........Here is something that Greeks would accept !


Republic of Upper Macedonia"
"New Republic of Macedonia" or "Republic of New Macedonia"
"Republic of Macedonia-Skopje"

Still you would have to call these people Macedonians :D!

[poutismalakas]

So how FYR ''Macedonia'' got that name ?

I dont know much about their history, and especeily about the name problem.

What is the name that they should use for their country then ?

Dont take this personal, but if the name Macedonia is so important to Greece, why Greece didnt call itself Macedonia then you would be able to push Macedonians to do something about it !

Like this i dont see it happening !

I feel nothing for or against Macedonians/Greeks, i just dont understand that whole thing !

And last question, by what name we should call ''Macedonians'' ?



________________________

I just started to read about this thing........Here is something that Greeks would accept !


Republic of Upper Macedonia"
"New Republic of Macedonia" or "Republic of New Macedonia"
"Republic of Macedonia-Skopje"

Still you would have to call these people Macedonians :D!


I understand some of both sides and as a Greek (Arkadian/Peloponnesian) I understand our stance. I think the issue is that FYROM has in the past made irredentist claims on what they call Aegean Macedonia i.e. Northern Greece!

Also the geograthical area they call Macedonia is way larger then the borders of classical Macedon. The area they reside in is what was classical Paionia which was inhabited by a Illyrian/Thracian people called Paionians. Phillip conquered them reducing them to a semi-autonomous, subordinate status.

They where later they switch bewteen being independant and semi-autonomous until the Romans incorperated them into the Roman province of
Macedonia. During the Avar and Slavic invasions during the Romano-Byzantine Persian war and the Arab conquests the armies of the region was settled in the Anatolian region of the now Greek Eastern Roman Empire. The population either fleed to asia minor, Thessaloniki, the mountians, died, where enslaved, or got assilmilated into Avar/Slav and Bulgar Khanates.

My argeement is that the population for the most have Paionians (Thracian/Illyrian), Avar, Slavic and Bulgar blood and speak a South Slavic language that is closely related to Bulgarian.

[FR Sloboda]

you Greeks think you can dictate Slavs in Macedonia, it is a shame to the Slavonic root langauge that countries like Russia and Serbia give more support to Greece than FYROM Macedonia on the Name Issiue.

anyway even though Aleksander was not a slav he was still not Greek in fact most probaly from an ancient race from the Bulgaria, Macedonia area.

the name Macedonia is on the terrortorial terms not ethnic and now that terrortoriy is a modern Republic it has the right to be Called Macedonia or Northern Macedonia.

[poutismalakas]

you Greeks think you can dictate Slavs in Macedonia, it is a shame to the Slavonic root langauge that countries like Russia and Serbia give more support to Greece than FYROM Macedonia on the Name Issiue.

anyway even though Aleksander was not a slav he was still not Greek in fact most probaly from an ancient race from the Bulgaria, Macedonia area.

the name Macedonia is on the terrortorial terms not ethnic and now that terrortoriy is a modern Republic it has the right to be Called Macedonia or Northern Macedonia.

Answer me this WHY would a NON-Greek spread a conquered language and culture through out the former Persian Empire? Also why would a NON-Greek claim decent from a Greek demi-god Herakles and Greek Sky god Zeus?

The argument wouldn't there if the nation of FYROM hadn't claimed the whole area along with direct dencent of Ancient Macedon while denying that those people had a Hellenic indentity. They started this mess and now that we are defending ourselfves and have the upperhand they are crying foul!!!

[Panathinaikos2]

Republic of Upper Macedonia"
"New Republic of Macedonia" or "Republic of New Macedonia"
"Republic of Macedonia-Skopje"

Still you would have to call these people Macedonians :D!Of course they would still be able to call their language "Macedonians" if they accept either one of these names... That is why 90 percent of the population of Greece voted for a name without Macedonia in it. The Greek government is playing the game way too diplomaticly instead of going for what the people of Greece want. If Greece can find a way to have it so that FYROM does not claim any Macedonian culture or ethnicity as well as claims to Greek territory, then I wouldn't mind if FYROM has a double name with Macedonia in it...

[Sebastian]

Does it really matter??.....in about 20 years or so FYROM will be majority Albanian and they will demand independance just like they did in Kosovo.

:lol: :cry: :lol: o really???Those pathetic rats can only infest the regions that connects with Kosovo,just like they infested every part of the countries that borders Albania...
They will be majority in Bitola and Prilep???We will burn these cockroaches like we did in 2002...In Prilep they do not let them rebuild the Mosque,not because they have something against the Muslim society,but just for the sakes of the Albanians:D...

Inb the eastern Macedonia the Albanians arent allowed to even step on the ground...When i walk and see an Albanian in my town i deliberately speak lodly"Shiptari,this Shiptari that"...They can spread propaganda,that they are tough,but they are all pussies...In 2002 they got killed like flies,so that the European nations had to intervene,or there would have been another genocide on the Balkans...
Then they let these dumbasses in to the government,America insisted on that,but they are a joke,a guy with a suite that worths 2000 euros with a football hat :lol:...only a Shiptar can look as stupid as that...Albania's people arent like this...This is a phenomenon reserved only for the Kosovars,who infested Macedonia when the Serbs wiped the swamps with them...

[Sebastian]

Greece,infatuated with it's nationalism,has spent it's joker.Putting your national issues over the security of the region is a one way ticket....
Macedonia is clearly accepted in to the NATO alliance,it is the motiv of a single member there who is doing this,but when America wants Macedonia in Nato,who the hell is Greece to deny their will???I know that the verification of the invitation has to go through the Greek's parlament,but there will be a lot of pressure on their hot minister of foreign affairs...The compromise will include the name MACEDONIA and on the end,Greece will be the one who will have to deal with frustration...According to the Greeks,beside the epithet of i dont know why,if there's the name MACEDONIA in there and there will be the name Macedonia,they are not going to like it...and on the end they wont.
It's not like Macedonia has to wait for the next Nato samit in 2011,the reforms are finished,but Greece can speak about how they like Macedonians and how they want to be our friends,to people in Afghanistan...
They dont want Macedonia to be a part of Nato and the EU under no name or whatever...They feel that they have the advantage right now,cos we aint a member yet,they do,but not for long...
The relationship between the two countries is more then bad and just the other day my friend slapped a Greek citizen,i dont know what the hell this dude was doing in Macedonia anyway.That crap that you hear on TV that it is not dangerous for the Greek citizens to visit Macedonia is bullshit...they are throwing beer bottles at the few Greeks who passes the main street.
My wife works in a Greek factory,but the guy doesnt give a damn about this...neither do i,i know things will work out at the end,but slapping people for politics is a pretty nasty thing,people dont understand the fact that Macedonia isnt actually rejected,but you cant explain that to them...
I didnt liked our citizens bulking up the Greeks economy being tourists in Greece anyway...Dumb Morons,they dont want to accept the help you send them for the past summer fires and you go on holiday in Greece???Now these deserve some head cracking...

[poutismalakas]

Greece,infatuated with it's nationalism,has spent it's joker.Putting your national issues over the security of the region is a one way ticket....
Macedonia is clearly accepted in to the NATO alliance,it is the motiv of a single member there who is doing this,but when America wants Macedonia in Nato,who the hell is Greece to deny their will???I know that the verification of the invitation has to go through the Greek's parlament,but there will be a lot of pressure on their hot minister of foreign affairs...The compromise will include the name MACEDONIA and on the end,Greece will be the one who will have to deal with frustration...According to the Greeks,beside the epithet of i dont know why,if there's the name MACEDONIA in there and there will be the name Macedonia,they are not going to like it...and on the end they wont.
It's not like Macedonia has to wait for the next Nato samit in 2011,the reforms are finished,but Greece can speak about how they like Macedonians and how they want to be our friends,to people in Afghanistan...
They dont want Macedonia to be a part of Nato and the EU under no name or whatever...They feel that they have the advantage right now,cos we aint a member yet,they do,but not for long...
The relationship between the two countries is more then bad and just the other day my friend slapped a Greek citizen,i dont know what the hell this dude was doing in Macedonia anyway.That crap that you hear on TV that it is not dangerous for the Greek citizens to visit Macedonia is bullshit...they are throwing beer bottles at the few Greeks who passes the main street.
My wife works in a Greek factory,but the guy doesnt give a damn about this...neither do i,i know things will work out at the end,but slapping people for politics is a pretty nasty thing,people dont understand the fact that Macedonia isnt actually rejected,but you cant explain that to them...
I didnt liked our citizens bulking up the Greeks economy being tourists in Greece anyway...Dumb Morons,they dont want to accept the help you send them for the past summer fires and you go on holiday in Greece???Now these deserve some head cracking...

The whole thing steams from the claims of Aegea, Prin, and Macedonian made by people within your government and dispora along with claims that the legacy of Ancient Makedon is theirs and not Greece's

[Sebastian]

The whole thing steams from the claims of Aegea, Prin, and Macedonian made by people within your government and dispora along with claims that the legacy of Ancient Makedon is theirs and not Greece's

These people doesnt even know how to read...I was on a wedding and this guy who's wife is a collegue with mine,started the bullshit theory,how we are the authentic descendants of Alex the Great...People wants to believe that we are Alex the great children :lol:...While his genes are present even in Afghanistan,claiming that we are authentic Ancient Macedonians is beyond ridiculous...Even the Greeks arent "pure blooded"like the ancient Greeks,more or less the genome is preserved,but it is not authenitc...how can anyone be 100% authentic,when this place was like a bordel,for centuries...

The Bukurest treaty devided the country to Bulgaria and Greece,but that is ancient history and doesnt concern me at least...People still bother with this stuff...
The Ancient Macedonian legacy has nothing to do with this,i mean why would you rename your airport in to Alexandar the Great???That isnt my identity,it is no ones identity,it's like having the "author rights" and "copy rights"...
But the evidence that Alex teh Great was 100% Greek are shady...The thing that he used the Hellenic culture,is because it was teh cradle of the civilization and it is still considered as the building blocks of our civilization,along with the Egyptian and the Roman...
It was special,just like when Romans spread Christianity after they've massacred enough Christians...
That's why i never liked history...I have study it,but not with passion,cos it is the biggest whore and it will screw with everyone,just to fulfill it's machiavelistic tendencies...
We just read what someone else wrote,all Logic is useless when history is concerned,there are so much propaganda,modifications and inserted fragments,that one should always keep it's "suspicious sensor"activated...
I do not consider Alex the Great as my grand dad...It is ridiculous...i got in grueling debates with my friend friends who listen to the radio instead of research for them selves,but you can never be too sure anyway...what's certain,it's that this was an ancient civilization and now people are fighting over it's "copy right"...
It is a damn shame...but the truth is that these two countries will never be friendly,what i see on the tv,it's just a cheap hypocrisy...
Things will get worst...The Greeks have nothing to see here...But i know i will long for the Plato's academy's place for the rest of my life...with the other monuments of the ancient philosophy...
People say"you long for that???Screw it,you are freaking nuts,who gives a damn about some bullshit rocks???You are nuts man,i wouldnt go there even if they pay me"...:D...

[poutismalakas]

These people doesnt even know how to read...I was on a wedding and this guy who's wife is a collegue with mine,started the bullshit theory,how we are the authentic descendants of Alex the Great...People wants to believe that we are Alex the great children :lol:...While his genes are present even in Afghanistan,claiming that we are authentic Ancient Macedonians is beyond ridiculous...Even the Greeks arent "pure blooded"like the ancient Greeks,more or less the genome is preserved,but it is not authenitc...how can anyone be 100% authentic,when this place was like a bordel,for centuries...

The Bukurest treaty devided the country to Bulgaria and Greece,but that is ancient history and doesnt concern me at least...People still bother with this stuff...
The Ancient Macedonian legacy has nothing to do with this,i mean why would you rename your airport in to Alexandar the Great???That isnt my identity,it is no ones identity,it's like having the "author rights" and "copy rights"...
But the evidence that Alex teh Great was 100% Greek are shady...The thing that he used the Hellenic culture,is because it was teh cradle of the civilization and it is still considered as the building blocks of our civilization,along with the Egyptian and the Roman...
It was special,just like when Romans spread Christianity after they've massacred enough Christians...
That's why i never liked history...I have study it,but not with passion,cos it is the biggest whore and it will screw with everyone,just to fulfill it's machiavelistic tendencies...
We just read what someone else wrote,all Logic is useless when history is concerned,there are so much propaganda,modifications and inserted fragments,that one should always keep it's "suspicious sensor"activated...
I do not consider Alex the Great as my grand dad...It is ridiculous...i got in grueling debates with my friend friends who listen to the radio instead of research for them selves,but you can never be too sure anyway...what's certain,it's that this was an ancient civilization and now people are fighting over it's "copy right"...
It is a damn shame...but the truth is that these two countries will never be friendly,what i see on the tv,it's just a cheap hypocrisy...
Things will get worst...The Greeks have nothing to see here...But i know i will long for the Plato's academy's place for the rest of my life...with the other monuments of the ancient philosophy...
People say"you long for that???Screw it,you are freaking nuts,who gives a damn about some bullshit rocks???You are nuts man,i wouldnt go there even if they pay me"...:D...


I like you Elcino BUT your replis are damn long :ronaldo:

As far as Alexander spreading Hellenism I say It was more melding Hellenism and Oriental/Persian culture into 1 world Empire!? He's Successors where the ones who are the ones who created what we know as the Hellenistic period of the Near and Mid East. As far as the weither Alexander was Greek... IMO why would a non Greek monarchy claim decent from a Greek SkyGod through his mythological semi-devine son Herakles? That goes for his mother's side. There have been many debates here on the ethnic indentity of Makedon and several Epirot tribes by the people here. As someone who has a History degree from a US university and who owns dozens of books on history I believe that the people of Makedon and some of the tribes of Eiprus ranged from Hellenes to Hellenised people! Either way it makes them Hellene even if some jackass with political agenda in Athens said different! :D

As far as the genetic continuity between ancient and modern is concerned, I believe that people like the Maniots, Tsakonians, Pontians, natives of modern Sparta, Grecanics, various Islands and various isolated villages more than likely have a very high degree of genetic continuity with our anceint ancestors. AS for the rest of us we can not deny that we have mixed with the Romans, French, Spainish (i.e Latins), Slavs, Albanians and to a lesser extend the Muslim Turks.

[PAO_HELLAS]

Greece,infatuated with it's nationalism,has spent it's joker.Putting your national issues over the security of the region is a one way ticket....
Macedonia is clearly accepted in to the NATO alliance,it is the motiv of a single member there who is doing this,but when America wants Macedonia in Nato,who the hell is Greece to deny their will???.

Who the hell is USA to decide who is going to enter NATO and who not? Is NATO an alliance or a club where USA plays the role of the monocrat and has to take the decisions while the others have to follow? I guess it is supposed to be an alliance.

For a first time after many years the "Greek" government behaved as they have to behave, and not as an accomondator of the American policies without opinion.

[Panathinaikos2]

As far as the genetic continuity between ancient and modern is concerned, I believe that people like the Maniots, Tsakonians, Pontians, natives of modern Sparta, Grecanics, various Islands and various isolated villages more than likely have a very high degree of genetic continuity with our anceint ancestors. AS for the rest of us we can not deny that we have mixed with the Romans, French, Spainish (i.e Latins), Slavs, Albanians and to a lesser extend the Muslim Turks.I agree with most of this post but I would have to say that I believe most Greeks are pure descedants of the Anicent Greeks or are just a little bit mixed and this is coming from a person who has reasearched alot on the anthropology of the Greek race.

[Panathinaikos2]

G
The relationship between the two countries is more then bad and just the other day my friend slapped a Greek citizen,i dont know what the hell this dude was doing in Macedonia anyway.That crap that you hear on TV that it is not dangerous for the Greek citizens to visit Macedonia is bullshit...they are throwing beer bottles at the few Greeks who passes the main street.
My wife works in a Greek factory,but the guy doesnt give a damn about this...neither do i,i know things will work out at the end,but slapping people for politics is a pretty nasty thing,people dont understand the fact that Macedonia isnt actually rejected,but you cant explain that to them...
I didnt liked our citizens bulking up the Greeks economy being tourists in Greece anyway...Dumb Morons,they dont want to accept the help you send them for the past summer fires and you go on holiday in Greece???Now these deserve some head cracking...Yes I also heard that many FYROMians are boycotting Greek buisnesses there. Is this true on the most part?

[Red_Card]

Yes I also heard that many FYROMians are boycotting Greek buisnesses there. Is this true on the most part?


Young boy delivery services are being shut down by the dozen.

[PAO_HELLAS]

Yes I also heard that many FYROMians are boycotting Greek buisnesses there. Is this true on the most part?

The fault is only of Greece who allows the provocations of the Skopians and keeps preserving them after this aggresiveness they express. If the Greek business operating in Skopia will pull out from there, the Skopian economy will collapse in one moment. Now they have Americans as their gods, but then no Americans will be able to save them.

But unfortunately some people here are putting the interest of a few Greek companies higher than the national interest of Greece.

[Sebastian]

AS for the rest of us we can not deny that we have mixed with the Romans, French, Spainish (i.e Latins), Slavs, -------Albanians-------- and to a lesser extend the Muslim Turks.

Are you serious???Turks are fine,but ALBANIANS????:lol:...C'mon...

[Sebastian]

Who the hell is USA to decide who is going to enter NATO and who not? Is NATO an alliance or a club where USA plays the role of the monocrat and has to take the decisions while the others have to follow? I guess it is supposed to be an alliance.

For a first time after many years the "Greek" government behaved as they have to behave, and not as an accomondator of the American policies without opinion.

USA could've shut Greece completely and pressurize it unbearably,but the thing is,they have an investment here and opne way or another they will accomplish it's intentions,as always...There was no need of making Scenes and Chapters from the summit,like in a DvD menu...There will be a compromise...

Now Americans arent worshiped here by the common folks,like you insinuated in another post of yours,but it is only natural for the government of any country on this planet,to kiss USA's ass...

It is not the Greek government,that showed the middle finger to America,but this was all "planned" and i am sure everyone knew about this,from both sides...That's politics.

American pre eminence is obvious and there's no reason for anyone to deny it...I am glad that they are way more "atomic" then Russia,cos if these second were in America's shoes,we would've had a world's economy collapse and now we would be communicating through letters..
They are advanced,but their rigid sense of reality gives me the creeps...Russia doesnt have the style...
NATO is America...No matter how the rules are,they are made by humans,not some transcedent being...When you are powerful enough,rules means nothing...

[Sebastian]

Yes I also heard that many FYROMians are boycotting Greek buisnesses there. Is this true on the most part?

Not that i know of...

FYROMians
...:Pound:...hahaha...

This sounds like a phrase from the "independence day" movie with Will Smith and the Aliens...

+ Most of the Greek business is illegal,as they doesnt work by the rules,most of them do not pay as much as they should and most of the factories are pathetic...

This guy from Aprillia textile,where my wife works,made a new factory,pretty sophisticated and people are satisfied,but i think this is the only employer,who gave optimal conditions to its employees...
Probably the others will go and piss off,when the new regulatives of the minimum wages are being constituted,they are,but the inspections will be rigorous after the "romantic randevu".....

[Panathinaikos2]

...:Pound:...hahaha...

This sounds like a phrase from the "independence day" movie with Will Smith and the Aliens...I doubt this phrase is as funny as you guys calling yourselves "Macedonians" ;)

[PAO_HELLAS]

Not that i know of...


...:Pound:...hahaha...

This sounds like a phrase from the "independence day" movie with Will Smith and the Aliens...

+ Most of the Greek business is illegal,as they doesnt work by the rules,most of them do not pay as much as they should and most of the factories are pathetic...

This guy from Aprillia textile,where my wife works,made a new factory,pretty sophisticated and people are satisfied,but i think this is the only employer,who gave optimal conditions to its employees...
Probably the others will go and piss off,when the new regulatives of the minimum wages are being constituted,they are,but the inspections will be rigorous after the "romantic randevu".....

Then you must start worrying because of the fact that the economy of your country is based in illegal business who use pathetic factories. If something like this is true, it is unfortunately a problem of your country, not of the Greek business who have as their purpose just what every company has.

[Sebastian]

The fault is only of Greece who allows the provocations of the Skopians and keeps preserving them after this aggresiveness they express. If the Greek business operating in Skopia will pull out from there, the Skopian economy will collapse in one moment. Now they have Americans as their gods, but then no Americans will be able to save them.

But unfortunately some people here are putting the interest of a few Greek companies higher than the national interest of Greece.

Skopians???I aint no Skopianec,i mean why are you generalizing all of this country's citizens and reffer to them as Skopians???It is ridiculous...

If you are aware of how most of the Skopians are,you will realize this.Most of them are either homo's or junky's...
Their girls loves Bitolcani(you must've heard of Bitola,it is right to the border with GREECE-MACEDONIA),cos they know that the tiny percentage of the Bitolski homo's go and look for their "lollypops" in Skopje,so they know that if a guy comes from Bitola,he will bust her brains out...
I aint kidding.

As i mentioned,most of the Greeks' factories are pathetic and if they leave,they will make us a big favor...The few who are really investing are welcomed,as it is stupid to cast out business men of substance...It is the color of the money that is relevant,not the color of the skin,or the nationality,at least when business is concerned.

However,if these are being treated in a harsh manner and realize that no further cooperation is possible and if they leave,then i can assure you that the Macedonian economy will not be hit by a "grease lightning",it will be their business that will collapse...
Only if there's one Greek business man who is keeping it's workers satisfied,his collapse would be a painful blow for the Greek's pride...

If the guy invested millions and if things turn out unbearable all of a sudden,then this will be the end of him....Let's hope none of this will happen,as it wont be tragic for the economy,but for the humanity...
Politics are politics and business men are business men...There has to be a distinction here,as every country should protect the investors,no matter how much hatred is accumulated...
But if they leave,it wont be us who will be scratching our glutes...

[Sebastian]

I doubt this phrase is as funny as you guys calling yourselves "Macedonians" ;)

It will be funny to you,but unfortunately to no other when the compromise is being reached and no matter what epithet is inserted,there will be the name Macedonia:evil:..

[Sebastian]

Then you must start worrying because of the fact that the economy of your country is based in illegal business who use pathetic factories. If something like this is true, it is unfortunately a problem of your country, not of the Greek business who have as their purpose just what every company has.

Oh believe me,they have being put their backs against the walls,but if they are being ass kicked,the whole thing can explode,as this issue is extremely sensitive and now it isnt the right time for repercussions...

But they will be taken care off...eventually...

But you claim that these "investors"are being essential for our economy :lol:...hehe.

[Sebastian]

Poutis,the thing about Alex the great is that we use logic to rationalize all the ancient fragments,as everything else that is buried in the sands of time...but if there's something that i doubt and suspect the most,then it is history...i know i am not the only one...

[Panathinaikos2]

It will be funny to you,but unfortunately to no other when the compromise is being reached and no matter what epithet is inserted,there will be the name Macedonia:evil:..Mabey you will have the name "Macedonia" in your name but believe me the real meaning of your new name will fully distinguish your people's and countries identity in a way, whether it be geographically or ethnically. The battle won't stop here either, soon after we clear out the name issue, we will go after the name of your language, national heroes, culture, history, etc. :evil: We will keep fighting this battle until we make it clear to the world that you guys are not Macedonians but actually Slavs who are attempting to steal our Greek history in order for your dreams of territorial expansion to come true!

[poutismalakas]

Are you serious???Turks are fine,but ALBANIANS????:lol:...C'mon...

what did I write that was so funny? I meant to point Turkish mixing with Greeks would have been held only to rape cause as Muslims the Turks would raise ANY offspring of their's as Muslims and in the eyes of Greeks those offspring would have cease to be Greek!

As far as the Albanian amixture in the Greek genetic pool again the only it would be feasible is prior to the Ottoman conquest and with Christian Albanians!

[PAO_HELLAS]

Skopians???I aint no Skopianec,i mean why are you generalizing all of this country's citizens and reffer to them as Skopians???It is ridiculous...

If you are aware of how most of the Skopians are,you will realize this.Most of them are either homo's or junky's...
Their girls loves Bitolcani(you must've heard of Bitola,it is right to the border with GREECE-MACEDONIA),cos they know that the tiny percentage of the Bitolski homo's go and look for their "lollypops" in Skopje,so they know that if a guy comes from Bitola,he will bust her brains out...
I aint kidding.

As i mentioned,most of the Greeks' factories are pathetic and if they leave,they will make us a big favor...The few who are really investing are welcomed,as it is stupid to cast out business men of substance...It is the color of the money that is relevant,not the color of the skin,or the nationality,at least when business is concerned.

However,if these are being treated in a harsh manner and realize that no further cooperation is possible and if they leave,then i can assure you that the Macedonian economy will not be hit by a "grease lightning",it will be their business that will collapse...
Only if there's one Greek business man who is keeping it's workers satisfied,his collapse would be a painful blow for the Greek's pride...

If the guy invested millions and if things turn out unbearable all of a sudden,then this will be the end of him....Let's hope none of this will happen,as it wont be tragic for the economy,but for the humanity...
Politics are politics and business men are business men...There has to be a distinction here,as every country should protect the investors,no matter how much hatred is accumulated...
But if they leave,it wont be us who will be scratching our glutes...

This time, instead of talking with generalities like "the few who are really investing", "if they leave, they will make us a big favor" or "the economy of your country is based on Greek business" I will talk with the facts.

"Okta-Skopje AD" is controlled by "Hellenic Petroleum" - investment of 200 million euros.
"Stopanska Banka" is controlled by the National Bank of Greece - 178 million euros
"Cosmofon" is controlled by OTE (Hellenic Organization of Telecommunications) - 135 million euros
"USJE Cementarnica" is controlled by "Titan Cement" - 75 million euros
"Pivara" is controlled by "Athenian Brewery" - 60 million euros
"Mermeren Kombinat" is controlled by "Kyriakidis Marbles" - 50 million euros
"Vero" market string is controled by "Veropoulos" - 40 million euros
Alpha Bank (Greek bank operating in Skopia as well) - 25 million euros
"Zitoluks" is controlled by "Elbisko-Phillipou" - 15 million euros
"Nikas Skop Doo" is controlled by "Nikas" - 7 million euros
"Rodon Happening" is controlled by businessman Spyridon Ginis - 6 million euros

Similar investments of more than a million euro happened with companies like Strumica Tabak, Pascalin, DS Steel, Larin Mramor AD, Kri Kri, Nestle Ice Skopje, Ellaskom, Dorjan Steel, DS Food, ElenaM, Kuzman & Damian, Alumil Systems, Iron Frozen etc.

If all these investments are not important for your economy, then FYROM has to be one of the top-powers of Europe while none of us admits it. The image of FYROM being an average Balkan country similar to Albania or Bosnia has to be virtual reality or something :ronaldo:.

[Panathinaikos2]

If all these investments are not important for your economy, then FYROM has to be one of the top-powers of Europe while none of us admits it.Please don't be so nieve man, FYROM has one of the biggest buisness in the world! Ever heard of MacDonalds :ronaldo: ? Originally it was Macdonaldovski, but the name had to be changed due to globolization :D

[Panathinaikos2]

Why don't you ignore the thread then and leave instead of just spamming?? You aren't impressing anybody with your ignorance...

[poutismalakas]

Poutis,the thing about Alex the great is that we use logic to rationalize all the ancient fragments,as everything else that is buried in the sands of time...but if there's something that i doubt and suspect the most,then it is history...i know i am not the only one...

socalled rational doesn't suit you or your conutrymen becuase it doesn't suit your view of history and national identity!

If you used your rational then why do people say Ancient Greeks all buggered young teen boys? because we only have fragments of PRO-sexual Pedastorist that's why!

Also Megas Alexandros claimed decent from Amon-Zeus of Egypt (pronounced the son of Zeus by Egyptian priests of the deity Amun at the Oracle of Siwa Oasis) BUT he didn't spread that culture either!

The crazy thing is how some of your countrymen claim that the Slavic language is nation to the Balkans anmd thus the native languag of Makedon!

It is historical FACT that most of the Roman citizens of the Romano-Byzantine Balkans fleed into the fortifide cities of the Aeagan coast during the Avar/Slavoi invasions of the Balkans! Anyone who staid behind either died, assimilated, became slaves or fleed into remote areas! That vaccum was filled by Slavs and Bulgars.

Any sparely populated areas such as Greece was resettled by greeks of Asia Minor during the reign of Irene of Athens (r.797 to 802 for her son Constantine VI (r 780 to 797) ).

The heavier populated and further from Byzantuim's core was never repopulated!

[Panathinaikos2]

I just want you guys to take a cool rest and start again. Gather your minds.To mabey you this issue means nothing, but to us Greeks and to the people of FYROM, this is a big issue! So please understand our stance on this... Thanks.

[poutismalakas]

no I'm just saying, all this kind of racism is involved here

It is not racism on my part! I am using my History degree to argue a point! eclino and his countrymen are not bad people BUT imo his government, educational system and certain nationalistic portion of his countrymen are making claims my countrymen disaree with!

Also keep in mind I'm Arkadian (ie Peloponnesian)

[Panathinaikos2]

no I'm just saying, all this kind of racism is involved hereRascism, what rascism?? I have seen more rascism in your huge Yugoslavian debates on this forum than on any other political threads in this forum. Yet you guys always ignored the rascism and continued on the debate normally.

[nb-legenda]

lol I was never racist

[Panathinaikos2]

It is not racism on my part! I am using my History degree to argue a point! eclino and his countrymen are not bad peopleeLcino is a class poster on this forum ;) Despite our differences in politics, I believe eLcino is one of the best posters on this site. eLcino is also a great person and very wise in philosophy ;)

[Panathinaikos2]

lol I was never racistI never said you were rascist but I can remember fellow Serbs and Bosnian members calling each other "cigans", "Ustasas" and "Chetniks" during these heated debates. So you have to admit that this thread is nothing compared to those Yugoslavian war threads around in this forum lol.

[Ero]

"I never said you were rascist but I can remember fellow Serbs and Bosnian members calling each other "cigans", "Ustasas" and "Chetniks" during these heated debates. So you have to admit that this thread is nothing compared to those Yugoslavian war threads around in this forum lol."

the good old days :D

I dont support Croatia's entry into the EU or UN (if we didnt have to give up our culture, pride and heroes i would be 100% supportive but thats what is happening) im not sure about my stance on joining NATO so i'll look into more before i decide wether i support it or not lol.

[FR Sloboda]

Ustasas is not even a word dog - we used to call each other Ustase and Cetnici - the Bosno - Srpsko - Hrvatski way.

It does not matter if Alexander the great was Greek becuase Macedonia was the Kingdom name he fought for and Macedonia is made up of many ethnicites.

i think it would be great if greece can make a deal with the Mackies to call the country Republic of Northen Macedonia.

Upper Macedonia sounds too Biblical - we are in the 21st century.

[PAO_HELLAS]

It does not matter if Alexander the great was Greek becuase Macedonia was the Kingdom name he fought for and Macedonia is made up of many ethnicites.


Macedonia wasn't made up by many ethnicities during the era of Alexander. Macedonia was made up by Macedonians, who were Dorians (therefore Hellenes). If other ethnicities like the Slavs settled in parts of Macedonia later, this doesn't mean they have the right adopt the history of Hellenic Macedonia. It is like the Latins or Anglo-saxons that settled in America would try to adopt the history of the Indian American civilizations flourished before the colonization.

Alexander's Empire at its flourish was made up by many ethnicities but this is not the issue. The dispute between Hellas and the neighboring Slavic country is being made for Macedonia itself, not for the ethnicities inhabited Alexander's Empire. None claimed Pakistan or Afghanistan....

[Panathinaikos2]

We must also make it clear that FYROM's official language isn't "Macedonian" becuase there is no such language as "Macedonian". There was howevor a Greek dialect spoken by the Macedonian as there were 300 other Greek dialects spoken throughout all of Ancient Greece...

[Saraj Fanático]

This thread went so off-topic its ridiculous.

[poutismalakas]

I know I'm going to split it...

[FR Sloboda]

as Macedonians are Slavs i support them in this issue.

it is time that the Greeks, Turks and Albanians stop harrasing the slavs for no reason.

[PAO_HELLAS]

Who did this? I did not made such a thread :p.

I think the thread was about the possible expansion of NATO and all its aspects, therefore it did not go off-topic. The anthropology related posts were the only ones off-topic, not the other ones moved.

[PAO_HELLAS]

as Macedonians are Slavs i support them in this issue.

it is time that the Greeks, Turks and Albanians stop harrasing the slavs for no reason.

At least you admit it.. Exactly because your "Makedonskis" are Slavs, they can't have any relation with Hellenic Macedonians and they can't claim the heritage of Hellenic Macedonia.

[FR Sloboda]

no not really.

the Slavs can gain heritige of Macedonia as they settled in the region and call themselves Macedonian Slavs due to this.

the Greek goverment acted to slow in this issue in my opinion.

has the Greeks signed some sort of declaration before 1992 - when FYROM got Independce they could of made the claim that Macedonia is an Old state that represents a region of greece.

but you guys cant know and your Goverment is to blame.

i think it would be appropriate if FYROM changed its name to Northern Macedonia or Slavonic Macedonia.

but still be allowed to gain the heritage and history of the Old Macedonia becuase they live in half of that terrortiory while the other half is in Greece.

[PAO_HELLAS]

no not really.

the Slavs can gain heritige of Macedonia as they settled in the region and call themselves Macedonian Slavs due to this.

the Greek goverment acted to slow in this issue in my opinion.

has the Greeks signed some sort of declaration before 1992 - when FYROM got Independce they could of made the claim that Macedonia is an Old state that represents a region of greece.

but you guys cant know and your Goverment is to blame.

i think it would be appropriate if FYROM changed its name to Northern Macedonia or Slavonic Macedonia.

but still be allowed to gain the heritage and history of the Old Macedonia becuase they live in half of that terrortiory while the other half is in Greece.

First of all, FYROM is not pocessing half of Macedonia, but a very small part of it. The rest area FYROM pocesses was historically known as Paionia. Later, after the Slavic occupation, it was known as Vardarska. I know that after Tito baptized it "Macedonia" it is known like this, but it is a mistake to call the whole area Macedonia.

But even if we consider that what you say is correct and FYROM pocesses half of Macedonia, this doesn't give them the right to claim the heritage of Macedonia. If you insist in this logic I guess you believe that the Latins and Anglo-saxons of America can claim the heritage of the native American civilization or the Turks can claim the heritage of the native American civilizations. You must believe as well that Turks can claim the Trojans or the Arabs can claim the heritage of the ancient Egyptians. Just confirm that you believe this and then I will respect your opinion. But you can't have a chose according to the case.
The situation in some of the cases I mentioned is even different, as Trojans or Egyptians are vanished nations, while Hellenic Macedonians still exist and the Slavs are trying to steal their heritage.

As for the treaties the "Greek" governments of the past years made with the Skopians and the Americans, they just don't represent the majority of the Greeks at all. Nobody of us said that our government is not to blame.

Personally I would accept a name like Slavonic Macedonia. This would make the citizents "Macedonian Slavs" and their language "Slavic Macedonian". But any name that would generalize with the term Macedonia is not acceptable and mustn ot be acceptable by Hellas.

[Sebastian]

This time, instead of talking with generalities like "the few who are really investing", "if they leave, they will make us a big favor" or "the economy of your country is based on Greek business" I will talk with the facts.

"Okta-Skopje AD" is controlled by "Hellenic Petroleum" - investment of 200 million euros.
"Stopanska Banka" is controlled by the National Bank of Greece - 178 million euros
"Cosmofon" is controlled by OTE (Hellenic Organization of Telecommunications) - 135 million euros
"USJE Cementarnica" is controlled by "Titan Cement" - 75 million euros
"Pivara" is controlled by "Athenian Brewery" - 60 million euros
"Mermeren Kombinat" is controlled by "Kyriakidis Marbles" - 50 million euros
"Vero" market string is controled by "Veropoulos" - 40 million euros
Alpha Bank (Greek bank operating in Skopia as well) - 25 million euros
"Zitoluks" is controlled by "Elbisko-Phillipou" - 15 million euros
"Nikas Skop Doo" is controlled by "Nikas" - 7 million euros
"Rodon Happening" is controlled by businessman Spyridon Ginis - 6 million euros

Similar investments of more than a million euro happened with companies like Strumica Tabak, Pascalin, DS Steel, Larin Mramor AD, Kri Kri, Nestle Ice Skopje, Ellaskom, Dorjan Steel, DS Food, ElenaM, Kuzman & Damian, Alumil Systems, Iron Frozen etc.

If all these investments are not important for your economy, then FYROM has to be one of the top-powers of Europe while none of us admits it. The image of FYROM being an average Balkan country similar to Albania or Bosnia has to be virtual reality or something :ronaldo:.

:lol:...heh,you think these can not be substituted???If they are pushed aside,they will be immediately substituted...
I was mostly referring to the textile industry,where Greeks have large "investition"

More of the 90 percent of the investitors you've mentioned are not essential,nor does people gives a damn if they are substituted...Vero and Cosmfon are losing customers drastically and as far is Vero concerned,there's 5 different market brands who have the same products...

You are such a naive individual if you think that the Macedonian economy will suffer if these leave Macedonia...There will be a small transition periode,but you sound as if we are talking about Microsoft investors leaving the country....

You think your investors can threaten our economy and make it a hostage???:D...It is Greece who will lose shit loads of profit,cos it is a fact that they will be replaced as easily as blinking an eye...

[Sebastian]

Mabey you will have the name "Macedonia" in your name but believe me the real meaning of your new name will fully distinguish your people's and countries identity in a way, whether it be geographically or ethnically. The battle won't stop here either, soon after we clear out the name issue, we will go after the name of your language, national heroes, culture, history, etc. :evil: We will keep fighting this battle until we make it clear to the world that you guys are not Macedonians but actually Slavs who are attempting to steal our Greek history in order for your dreams of territorial expansion to come true!

The thing is you can not even fight for the name you claim it is rightfully yours...That's why there's FYROM,cos it camouflages the name MACEDONIA.i mean it is more than obvious...

It wont distinguish a thing,by all means if the term MACEDONIA persists in the name Greece is losing the battle...What you are saying is just comforting your selves...

After the issue is resolved,this country will enter Nato and when it enter's NATO it will sonn enter the EU,you know what this means???That Greece will no longer have the advantage and we will stand on equal ground...You can use no more threats and veto's,as when the name Macedonia is officially accepted with some epithet,then you will have too verify it again for the EU invitation...

Most of the world,has accepted this republic by the name of Republic of Macedonia,but i can assure you that when this country starts to "swim"in NATO(which is an EU lobby) and especially the EU,things will get pretty unbearable for Greece,it will be a ridiculous situation...Two members of Nato and the EU who doesnt want to see each other :lol:...That will be something...
Greece has damaged it's reputation with the Veto,although i understand it was necessary for you,but it is a sign of weakness when someone can blackmail the other...Greece can continue with Veto's all the time,it will only anger the world's leaders...But it is obvious that we will enter Nato as Macedonia isnt rejected,it is merely another half time...

The thing that Bush mandate is in it's sunset,means nothing,as Macedonia is an investition in Land for the US...just like everyone else...They need to accumulate as much land as they can,cos if they wont Russia will claim it and we know what a bunch of fanatics the Russians are...

[Sebastian]

Ustasas is not even a word dog - we used to call each other Ustase and Cetnici - the Bosno - Srpsko - Hrvatski way.

It does not matter if Alexander the great was Greek becuase Macedonia was the Kingdom name he fought for and Macedonia is made up of many ethnicites.

i think it would be great if greece can make a deal with the Mackies to call the country Republic of Northen Macedonia.

Upper Macedonia sounds too Biblical - we are in the 21st century.

This is actually a name that is mostly considered,but it is out of the question as far is Greece concerned,i dont want the name too,but it includes the term Macedonia,so it is in our advantage...

Upper Macedonia includes the name also...these are fine for the compromise,but as time goes on,Greece will have to deal with this and they will have to accept this painful fact...

Although this is more then an Ego fight,but it is hard for a country with such tradition to accept the name Macedonia being used elsewhere then in it's own portfolio...
As much as their foreign minister seems relaxed i know they understand what turmoil awaits their policy,especially when the angry citizens unleash their wrath and furious anger when the compromise is being made and i know they aint going to like it...

They have spent their joker,more jokers like this will only make them look like racists,i do not consider this to be racism,but people dont care,more of the 90 % of the world will call them racists,despite the fact that this isnt racism,they will have to deal with that particular issue as well...

[Sebastian]

no not really.

the Slavs can gain heritige of Macedonia as they settled in the region and call themselves Macedonian Slavs due to this.

the Greek goverment acted to slow in this issue in my opinion.



The Greek government was silent when we were part of the SFRJ federation...No one mentioned the issue of the name...Only after the independence things started to errupt,cos SFRJ was one of the most powerful countries in Europe,as far is military concerned,the rest it was an experiment that couldnt continue,because of the free education and free health care...

They thought that this country will be consumed from within and that it can never be a candidate for NATO...while they waited relaxed,this country worked hard and when they realized that this country will about to enter Nato they were quite surprised...

Macedonia doesnt have the perfect geo strategic position like Croatia and Albania,but that's even more surprising...

You are not only dealing with an ordinary country,but with some who has accomplished all the NATO tasks and criteriums and this is not a small issue...
If i am about to battle someone that i think he possesses something that i consider as rightfully mine,i wouldnt sit all day long and wait for some old fart to give me a hand in the negotiations...
They should've deal with this thing lot more rigorously then they did...There was an embargo in the past,but they realized that it has no significant effect...
Instead of them trying to bring their opponent down,they enhanced it's economy with their investitions...I know they make profit,but beside the fact that they can be easily replaced,they werent as intensive as they should've be...They practically helped this country to stand on it's feet and reach one of the most important goals,that everyone dreams of...

Talk about irony...With the current state of our economy and with the immense investition plans from Europe and especially Turkey,Macedonia would deal easily if Greece decides to revoke everything back...
Greece isnt Germany,nor the US,so that we can consider this as a tragic chapter in our history...
Share holders come and go,it is as simple as that,but it will be a disaster for the two nations...a disaster...

[Sebastian]

socalled rational doesn't suit you or your conutrymen becuase it doesn't suit your view of history and national identity!

If you used your rational then why do people say Ancient Greeks all buggered young teen boys? because we only have fragments of PRO-sexual Pedastorist that's why!

Also Megas Alexandros claimed decent from Amon-Zeus of Egypt (pronounced the son of Zeus by Egyptian priests of the deity Amun at the Oracle of Siwa Oasis) BUT he didn't spread that culture either!

The crazy thing is how some of your countrymen claim that the Slavic language is nation to the Balkans anmd thus the native languag of Makedon!

It is historical FACT that most of the Roman citizens of the Romano-Byzantine Balkans fleed into the fortifide cities of the Aeagan coast during the Avar/Slavoi invasions of the Balkans! Anyone who staid behind either died, assimilated, became slaves or fleed into remote areas! That vaccum was filled by Slavs and Bulgars.

Any sparely populated areas such as Greece was resettled by greeks of Asia Minor during the reign of Irene of Athens (r.797 to 802 for her son Constantine VI (r 780 to 797) ).

The heavier populated and further from Byzantuim's core was never repopulated!

Some of my country men,not all of us,you should deal with them...I am proud to be a Slav as Slavs are the majority of the European society,but beside that history is being fabricated beyond belief,no one can claim with certainty,about matters that are millenia old...

If you used your rational then why do people say Ancient Greeks all buggered young teen boys? because we only have fragments of PRO-sexual Pedastorist that's why!
As for the rational reasoning,i was referring to everything except this...
The missing links in history are being filled with all sorts of theories,where common logic is used to materialize someone's claims and lack of facts...
The point is that you can never be 100% certain about ancient history "facts"...

I consider history talks as a waste of time,it is reality that concerns me...The ancient works in all spheres of life are maybe preserved,some partially and some integrally,but history it self is and will be subjective.
As you can see there are people who claim that Solun is ours and we should take him...It is not the minority,but there's a whole bunch of people like this...There's fanatics like this everywhere in the world,through all eras...People like this are often the ones who "design"the history books...It is obvious to everyone that we are only concerned in our own interests...
That's why pointless discussion will be made,without any epilogue whatsoever...

[Sebastian]

What i have seen on the teletext,i cant believe it....Greece is offering Macedonia 75 m euros and no visas for our citizens when they travel in Greece for the name...:shocked: :lol:...

I have read the reply of the Macedonian minister of foreign affairs,but i still cant believe that this offer is actually real...If Greece offered this nonsense then this actually means that they know the name MACEDONIA must be inserted,but now they are using desperate measures to escivate the imminent compromise that must take place and be materialized...

:confused:...

[Sebastian]

what did I write that was so funny? I meant to point Turkish mixing with Greeks would have been held only to rape cause as Muslims the Turks would raise ANY offspring of their's as Muslims and in the eyes of Greeks those offspring would have cease to be Greek!

As far as the Albanian amixture in the Greek genetic pool again the only it would be feasible is prior to the Ottoman conquest and with Christian Albanians!

I laughed about the Albanians of course...I seriously doubt that a few "romance"exceptions would make an Albanian mark in the Greek genome...

[poutismalakas]

I laughed about the Albanians of course...I seriously doubt that a few "romance"exceptions would make an Albanian mark in the Greek genome...
well the people over at mak#$%^ seem to think that modern greeks are ALL Albanians and Turks pretending to be Greeks.

[Sebastian]

well the people over at mak#$%^ seem to think that modern greeks are ALL Albanians and Turks pretending to be Greeks.

Well that's a load of crap...Beside the fact that we are all mixed after an Eon of violent intervals,the Greek haplotype has nothing to do with Albanians...Turks perhaps,they busted everyone for quite some time arround here and we all contain their y-dna,but the Albanians???Greek people are good looking,their women are naturally exotic and graceful,this is proven by the Mrs World crown years ago...When will Albania win this???In the Eurovision which i dont even watch,that dude with the song "Shake,shake,give me some more"or something,still can not be erased from people's memories,people here were mad at me when i said this guy is the best and should win...

He was a Greek,i mean what do you expect,we had Tose Proeski back then in 2005 the guy who died in a car accident because he was too stupid to realize that driving even in a Taureg jeep front seat,you can also die...The guy in the show looked like an Imam and he was quite ridiculous,he had an interview after that and he couldnt believe how did this guy from Greece had so much success,with just too gorgeous babes and dressed casually:D.
This guy was more charismatic then the whole Eurovision bunch of contestants.But i love irritating paralogical people,i never liked Tose Proeski anyway and they always looked at me with anger whenever i said"this Rivas or whatever the hell his name was,was damn cool and he should've won the whole thing..."
"Are you freaking nuts???How can you listen to Jazz and Instrumental rock and claim that this Greek faggot is better then Tose???"As i said i never liked Tose and he seemed like a homo to me,saying this to people here was just too much,but what can they do to me???Slap me???
Not because the guy looked like a homo,the guy was a religious extremist,the biggest hipocrite i have ever seen,pretending that he cares about humanity and that he was a humanitarian...I found out some things recently that makes him look even more pathetic...

This leads to that gorgeous babe who won the Euro Vision contest was just so smooth looking...I knew she will win it right after i heard the song,i wouldnt hear that music privately ,but there was this other song in a latino style,which was fantastic,i am still searching for that one...I dont even know the name of this gorgeous babe.
There are beautiful people everywhere,but in Greece and especially in Italy this is a bit more frequent...

I mean we watch the peasants from Lerin,who look like they came from the Flash Gordon's Arboria planet,where people lived on the trees and people here draw conclusions and say"look how ugly the Greeks are":.But the reality is that no Greek from Solun or Athens would come in Bitola to buy him self a pointlessly designed shirt or worthless hand watch,or clothes...Hell i cant even by an Inter kit here...Whenever someone opens a shop for original sports ware,he immediately closes,cos people buy knock offs who doesnt worth a penny...Why in God's name would you want to buy stuff from here when you live in a country that is a member of the EU???:confused:...

And look at the Kosovars,in a room of 100 people you will realize immediately who is Albanian,it is more then obvious that these people have nothing to do with the Greeks or anyone else here...
The Tosts in Albania,who are Christians are quite more sophisticated then the Gegi's who are the Kosovar type of people...
Of course there are good looking people everywhere,but as i said,Albanian people in general are not good looking...
I mean there's some old people here,who were jerking for their 45th birthday and now they married some pretty handsome 18 year old girls from Albania,they just payed 800 euros and bang,they will have some compensating to do...I mean who would do such a thing,to give an 18 year old beauty to an old and decayed 45 year old dork???
My geography teacher always said"Shiptar fools(there was Albanians in my class too :D ),instead of creating a tourist kingdom,like Greece and Croatia,they go and gather fruit and work in the fields" :lol: :Pound:...
Just look at what happened with the Albanian weapon storages...They blew the hell out and turned a huge mountain to dust...!?
What kind of moron you should be to even allow your weapon storages to explode???This aint no detergent storage damn it...
But their goegraphical position is perfect...Beside their incompetence to exploit and capitalize
from the natural wealth they have,others will take the advantage of that...Pretty soon foreign capital will transform Albany in a heaven on earth...Still Albanians will never be a nation who "inflicts"respect...

[ARBANITAI]

quick questions do you deny that IF the Illyrians in the Romano-Byzantine Prefecture of Illyria could sustain their culturally and linguitice indentity till today then why not accept that those slavs who live in the balkans can have Illyrian blood and have the same claim to land as the Albanians claim!??


No the SLAVS in generel, or the slavs of FYROM these "history stealers" and wannabe "macedonians" can forget claimin Albanian-Illyrian Ancestry ever in their lifes, especially those slavs of Fyrom, their are known very well to steal history and culture from other nations from Illyrians and Macedonians, as they are doing with Ancient Macedonia now, and claiming two rich ancient nations ILLYRIANS and MACEDONIANS, to pretend to make some history for them selfes, since they have none, because their real history and background as a country and history is too poor, and no they are not MAcedonians or Illyrians, but a Slavic people mixed bulgarians from Carpathia. thats the truth about them. like it or not!

but good u asked since its good to make things clear but not u must be kidding i thought u were joking, there is no evidence that the "bulgarians" and "ovskis" to claim our ancestors Illyrians.

And if u asked me in general about the whole slavs in Balcans my answer to u is, as i have stated manye times before, there are Dalmatins of Croatia who have Albanian-Illyrian ancestry, and some others too in Herzegovina, (croats mainly with Albanian-Illyrian ancestry).

And the Albanians are the survival modern Illyrians with ancient language and culture, still at these day. our slavic neighbours have pretend to steal our ancestors and history from us, since the first day the arrived in balcans, and finally im happy to say they did not succeed and will never do that ! im sure about it!