Violations of 'Islamic teachings' take deadly toll on Iraqi women

[poutismalakas]

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/WORLD/meast/02/08/iraq.women/art.basra.police.cnn.jpg



BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The images in the Basra police file are nauseating: Page after page of women killed in brutal fashion -- some strangled to death, their faces disfigured; others beheaded. All bear signs of torture.


Police chief Gen. Abdul Jalil Khalaf holds a book cataloging the dead.

1 of 3 The women are killed, police say, because they failed to wear a headscarf or because they ignored other "rules" that secretive fundamentalist groups want to enforce.

"Fear, fear is always there," says 30-year-old Safana, an artist and university professor. "We don't know who to be afraid of. Maybe it's a friend or a student you teach. There is no break, no security. I don't know who to be afraid of."

Her fear is justified. Iraq's second-largest city, Basra, is a stronghold of conservative Shia groups. As many as 133 women were killed in Basra last year -- 79 for violation of "Islamic teachings" and 47 for so-called honor killings, according to IRIN, the news branch of the U.N.'s Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.

One glance through the police file is enough to understand the consequences. Basra's police chief, Gen. Abdul Jalil Khalaf, flips through the file, pointing to one unsolved case after another. Watch Khalaf show evidence of the brutality »

"I think so far, we have been unable to tackle this problem properly," he says. "There are many motives for these crimes and parties involved in killing women, by strangling, beheading, chopping off their hands, legs, heads."

"When I came to Basra a year ago," he says, "two women were killed in front of their kids. Their blood was flowing in front of their kids, they were crying. Another woman was killed in front of her 6-year-old son, another in front of her 11-year-old child, and yet another who was pregnant."

The killers enforcing their own version of Islamic justice are rarely caught, while women live in fear.

Boldly splattered in red paint just outside the main downtown market, a chilling sign reads: "We warn against not wearing a headscarf and wearing makeup. Those who do not abide by this will be punished. God is our witness, we have notified you."

The attacks on the women of Basra have intensified since British forces withdrew to their base at the airport back in September, police say. Iraqi security forces took over after British troops pulled back, but are heavily infiltrated by militias.

And tracking the perpetrators of these crimes is nearly impossible, Khalaf says, adding that he doesn't have control of the thousands of policemen and officers.

"We're trying to trace crimes carried out by an anonymous enemy," he says.

Amnesty International has raised concern about the increasing violence toward women in Iraq, saying abductions, rapes and "honor killings" are on the rise.

"Politically active women, those who did not follow a strict dress code, and women [who are] human rights defenders were increasingly at risk of abuses, including by armed groups and religious extremists," Amnesty said in a 2007 report.

Sometimes, it's just the color of a woman's headscarf that can draw unwanted attention.

"One time, one of my female colleagues commented on the color of my headscarf," Safana says. "She said it would draw attention ... [and I should] avoid it and stick to colors like gray, brown and black."

This extremist ideology enrages many secular Muslim women, who say it's a misrepresentation of Islam.

Sawsan, another woman who works at a university, says the message from the radicals to women is simple: "They seem to be sending us a message to stay at home and keep your mouth shut."


After the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003, Sawsan says, the situation was "the best." But now, she says, it's "the worst."

"We thought there would be freedom and democracy and women would have their rights. But all the things we were promised have not come true. There is only fear and horror."

[poutismalakas]

WOW NO comments???? hum interesting!!!!!

[devious]

Those are not mad ppl nor crazy individuals.. they are animals.. or something worst!.. they are something worst, they justify crimes by telling it`s an order from God! what is worst than this? just nothing!

IMO.. It`s better for these women to go to the land of freedom and wear or do whatever they wont.. and then propably getting raped (like 30% or more of women living in the freedom land).. it`s much more merciful than geting tortured and killed for not covering themselves like the crazy criminals want them to!

It`s a mad world! ..here is your comment.

[Bosnian Unit]

That's what happens when you introduce American type of democracy :boo:

Some people/countries need someone like Saddam Hussein was, just to take care of the country, and keep the people in order.

But too bad, Hussein wont be back he is probably with Bush and Bin Laden somwhere in Texas hunting or whatever.


Warning : Dont start with whole (FAKE) death thing, becouse i have different view on that !

[emode]

I don't know what to say...its hideous and cruel but sometimes it maybe more to the story than what they were saying here. Not sure if i completely believe this story at all.

I'm a female and i live in a muslim country and i don't see women being treated any differently.

[Bosnian Unit]

I don't know what to say...its hideous and cruel but sometimes it maybe more to the story than what they were saying here. Not sure if i completely believe this story at all.
I'm a female and i live in a muslim country and i don't see women being treated any differently.


Its called (American) propaganda :D

Even if its true, some parts of this world NEEDS people like Saddam Hussein was, becouse he was not bad at all as they claim he was.

They had free schools,health care etc....now they have nothing its total destruction, and nothing is free.

After all it was US who installed him, supported him in 8 year war with Iran, they also didnt mention a thing when he was killing Kurds becouse they DIDNT CARE BACK THEN, now they ''care'' :boo:.

http://www.doublespeakshow.com/images/2006/11/saddam_Rumsfeld.jpg

[Sebastian]

Poutis what did you expected man???
.

[poutismalakas]

That's what happens when you introduce American type of democracy :boo:

Some people/countries need someone like Saddam Hussein was, just to take care of the country, and keep the people in order.

But too bad, Hussein wont be back he is probably with Bush and Bin Laden somwhere in Texas hunting or whatever.


Warning : Dont start with whole (FAKE) death thing, becouse i have different view on that !

Ah NO This is what happens when you have jackassess who wish for the "glory days of Islam to return" and they try to impose their ideal version on Modern society!

Bin Laden is NOT in Texas! He is in Detroit managing a mini-mart!

[aslanlar]

Jesus christ, i don't think i hate anything more then faggots from *western* cultures with their ethnocentric views.
Sure i'm for equality of women, and i think this is pretty shit, but unless you live in that culture and feel opressed, then your in no position to comment.

[poutismalakas]

Jesus christ, i don't think i hate anything more then faggots from *western* cultures with their ethnocentric views.
Sure i'm for equality of women, and i think this is pretty shit, but unless you live in that culture and feel opressed, then your in no position to comment.

Oh and you are are so oppessed!!:rolleyes:

[Bosnian Unit]

Ah NO This is what happens when you have jackassess who wish for the "glory days of Islam to return" and they try to impose their ideal version on Modern society!

Bin Laden is NOT in Texas! He is in Detroit managing a mini-mart!


I have no idea what the writer was trying to say ?

Nobady mentioned Islam, meybe you have a problem with Islam, i would not be surprised if you hate Muslims since you are programed that way by your media machinery !

[poutismalakas]

I have no idea what the writer was trying to say ?

Nobady mentioned Islam, meybe you have a problem with Islam, i would not be surprised if you hate Muslims since you are programed that way by your media machinery !

IF I choose or have chosen to hate Islam and Mulsims it will NOT because of the media!

[Pape]

Don't listen to Bosnian Unit, he is a Islamic ambassador on SFN and he drinks beer :lol:

[poutismalakas]

Also I foind it funny that you blaim the US for those horrible acts! The US didn't tell those savages to attack their women!!

[Bosnian Unit]

Also I foind it funny that you blaim the US for those horrible acts! The US didn't tell those savages to attack their women!!

That's what happens when they bring in US type of democracy to the country that is not ready for it.

Face it, some countries needs people like Saddam, and 90% of Iraqis will tell you they where better when he was in power, then now in this darkness and hell what is called freedom and democracy.

[aslanlar]

I never said i was opressed, if you are confused, i will clearly explicate that i am not living in a country where i am opressed.

That's why i'm NOT saying
"wow, look at these savages, killing people because of their archaic society. They should really westernize, because western society is flawless, it's completely perfect and the whole world should adapt, otherwise they are inferior to us. Damn towl-head! "

[poutismalakas]

I never said i was opressed, if you are confused, i will clearly explicate that i am not living in a country where i am opressed.

That's why i'm NOT saying
"wow, look at these savages, killing people because of their archaic society. They should really westernize, because western society is flawless, it's completely perfect and the whole world should adapt, otherwise they are inferior to us. Damn towl-head! "

Ahh again you putting words in my mouth! If I said that killing, beating, raping, and maiming your women unless they conform to your interpation of your religion is archaic then yes you are correct! I've known Muslims from mulitple nations since I was a teenager and no where did I get that doing that to your women was cool! I've heard some stuff that I considered sexist but no where did I hear anything like until I heard it from a young female convert who said she was told it was justified in extreme case! :faint2: I told her whom ever told her that was a f'ing moron!

[aslanlar]

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, i was merely giving a general statement of what one could say, albeit farely hyperbolic.
My point wasn't about islams treatment of women, because any rational person should know that women are not treated badly on the whole (when you also look at domestic violence towards women in other cultures).

My point is that you can't view another culture as primitive just because it's different to your society. For example, if you go to your doctor, and he has dreads and posters of Bob Marley and is completely nude, a nudist, you wouldn't exactly want him to do surgery on you would you? What's wrong with nudism? Why should we HAVE to cover up parts of our body (but then complain when other cultures cover up too much or too little)?

Your view of 'right' is again based on your own cultures. Sure i prefer western society and i would never want to live in a deeply religous country, but i'm not gonna discriminate against that culture simply because i havn't experienced it, i'm not part of that culture and i have no right to.

This isn't an attack against you, or a defence for islamic nation, it's just my way of thinking: 'If you don't know, don't comment ;)

[Bosnian Unit]

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, i was merely giving a general statement of what one could say, albeit farely hyperbolic.
My point wasn't about islams treatment of women, because any rational person should know that women are not treated badly on the whole (when you also look at domestic violence towards women in other cultures).

My point is that you can't view another culture as primitive just because it's different to your society. For example, if you go to your doctor, and he has dreads and posters of Bob Marley and is completely nude, a nudist, you wouldn't exactly want him to do surgery on you would you? What's wrong with nudism? Why should we HAVE to cover up parts of our body (but then complain when other cultures cover up too much or too little)?

Your view of 'right' is again based on your own cultures. Sure i prefer western society and i would never want to live in a deeply religous country, but i'm not gonna discriminate against that culture simply because i havn't experienced it, i'm not part of that culture and i have no right to.

This isn't an attack against you, or a defence for islamic nation, it's just my way of thinking: 'If you don't know, don't comment ;)

:nod:

Great post, this is a view of a person who really belives in freedom and democracy, the real democracy not the fake one wich is being introduced to us by USA lately !

This is also a post of a person who use his own mind, he was not programed by the media like some people around here.

[poutismalakas]

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, i was merely giving a general statement of what one could say, albeit farely hyperbolic.
My point wasn't about islams treatment of women, because any rational person should know that women are not treated badly on the whole (when you also look at domestic violence towards women in other cultures).

My point is that you can't view another culture as primitive just because it's different to your society. For example, if you go to your doctor, and he has dreads and posters of Bob Marley and is completely nude, a nudist, you wouldn't exactly want him to do surgery on you would you? What's wrong with nudism? Why should we HAVE to cover up parts of our body (but then complain when other cultures cover up too much or too little)?

Your view of 'right' is again based on your own cultures. Sure i prefer western society and i would never want to live in a deeply religous country, but i'm not gonna discriminate against that culture simply because i havn't experienced it, i'm not part of that culture and i have no right to.

This isn't an attack against you, or a defence for islamic nation, it's just my way of thinking: 'If you don't know, don't comment ;)

one thing is to go around nude another is your only crime is not wearing a scar low enuff to cover your hair or not the right color!!!!!!!!

what is western or eastern??? Isn't in some eastern cultures ok for people to be naked? If want to talk the differences of Culture here is my question for you why is it that western women have to wear a scarf in Islamic nations out of respect for your culture but we must allow you to practice your culture in our nation shouldn't you respect ours as well??

MY argument or reason behind posting this thread wasn't about what goes on here in the West or my "Western" beliefs BUT why is there NO OUTRAGE coming from people in the east in regards to Iraqi women getting beaten, maimed, raped, or murdered due to not covering enuff of their hair or not wearing the correct colored scarf???

IMO isn't suppose to be GOD's job to punish the sinner???? Also what consititutes modesty???

Now I agree with you if a "Christian, Atheist, or Muslim" woman wanted to walk at the beach in a thong I would view the mall the same! Either as trashy women or women with such a lack of self worth that they have to resort to objectifying themselves as sex objects to get "attention" they crave! Believe me when I say Classy beats slutty anyday of the week!

[Sebastian]

Pointlessssssssssssssssss.....Wearing a blanket on 50 degrees and even swiming with your "full body armor"is a reality for these people...I see that in our Ohrid lake every year....
Their husbands are just like anyone else but these women are totally out of this reality...I sometimes want to say"damn it woman just go and wash your clothes in your washing machine"...
Is it so wrong to wear a bathing suite????As if their women are celestials beings or as if i will immediately want to rape them...This is all an effect of their insicurity and immaturity...Every psychologist will tell you that...
Where is the individualism in that???Looking like my 78 grandmother????

[aslanlar]

[QUOTE=poutismalakas;945128]one thing is to go around nude another is your only crime is not wearing a scar low enuff to cover your hair or not the right color!!!!!!!!
QUOTE]

Do you see a difference in this, because i don't? There is no logical argument in socially restricting your people to cover up certain parts of your body and not others. Let's say in a 45degree day (celcius), shouldn't it be normal to go around nude? Seeing as even just a shirt/shorts is enough to make you sweat, surely you would be much more comfortable walking nude.

Yet, you are brought up thinking something like that is inappropriate.
Just like other cultures view having the headscarf too bright/high to be inappropriate.

*my comment about "too little" clothing was referring to old tribal communities*

[poutismalakas]

It doesn't matter nude or ninja suited! There is NO EXCUSE for what is happening to those women!!! that the reason behind this thread! My question for you do you justify the beating of your mother, wife, grandmother, aunt, adult sister or Daugther based manor of dress or morals?!

[aslanlar]

Well i dont, because i'd feel it was wrong. You probably share my opinion. An Arab from a muslim country on the other hand, may feel differently. I won't think he's horrible, just that his culture is different from mine.

[poutismalakas]

Well i dont, because i'd feel it was wrong. You probably share my opinion. An Arab from a muslim country on the other hand, may feel differently. I won't think he's horrible, just that his culture is different from mine.

Well Turks have a more dare I sa progressive culture?!

maybe true but about the part of differnt culture but come on beating a woman over a scarf!???? They are ven threatening non muslim women as well!

[aslanlar]

'progressive'? That's exactly the type of thinking that pisses me off. Although i prefer western culture, i'm not naive enough to think it is great and other cultures are below it.

Yes, i think it's wrong and has inflamed consequences, but again, i am not part of that culture and i don't understand it. When you are, then comment on it, and i will gladly listen without getting pissed off.

Disagree with me if you want, it's just the idea of ethnocentrism that is extremely aggrivating.

[Panathinaikos2]

I won't think he's horrible, just that his culture is different from mine.Yes but this is morally wrong, no matter the culture!

[poutismalakas]

'progressive'? That's exactly the type of thinking that pisses me off. Although i prefer western culture, i'm not naive enough to think it is great and other cultures are below it.

Yes, i think it's wrong and has inflamed consequences, but again, i am not part of that culture and i don't understand it. When you are, then comment on it, and i will gladly listen without getting pissed off.

Disagree with me if you want, it's just the idea of ethnocentrism that is extremely aggrivating.

So your saying it is ok to beat, maim, disfigure, rape, and murder a perfect stranger or a loved one solely based on the idea that they are not conforming to the social norm of the culture they are part and that they should NOT be judge poorly for it?! This has nothing to do with the social standing women in Arab culture! This has to do with the fact that if a woman does not conform to their culture's extremists sense of morality those people have to the right to do all of the above to the socalled offending woman and that people on the outside have not right to judge?!

[aslanlar]

Yes but this is morally wrong, no matter the culture!

Morally wrong according to what society? Surely these men do not feel they are participating in morally wrong actions?
It's morally wrong according to your culture, moral standards are NOT universal and you shouldn't think as such.

[aslanlar]

So your saying it is ok to beat, maim, disfigure, rape, and murder a perfect stranger or a loved one solely based on the idea that they are not conforming to the social norm of the culture they are part and that they should NOT be judge poorly for it?! This has nothing to do with the social standing women in Arab culture! This has to do with the fact that if a woman does not conform to their culture's extremists sense of morality those people have to the right to do all of the above to the socalled offending woman and that people on the outside have not right to judge?!

Hey, if its fine in their culture, then yeh, its ok to do all that if the loved-one is breaking the rules of the society. Likewise, if someone is walking around nude in a proffessional place, he would most likely be arrested for inappropriate behavior (a slighter punishment, but still it's a form of a fine).
Sure i don't agree on all of us conforming, but it is inevitable in each and every one of us. Understand, in these arab countries, it is not 'extremist culture' but just normal culture.
And this isn't about sexism, try walking nude in an arab country n see what happens! :ronaldo:

[poutismalakas]

Hey, if its fine in their culture, then yeh, its ok to do all that if the loved-one is breaking the rules of the society. Likewise, if someone is walking around nude in a proffessional place, he would most likely be arrested for inappropriate behavior (a slighter punishment, but still it's a form of a fine).
Sure i don't agree on all of us conforming, but it is inevitable in each and every one of us. Understand, in these arab countries, it is not 'extremist culture' but just normal culture.
And this isn't about sexism, try walking nude in an arab country n see what happens! :ronaldo:

Actually no it is NOT ok in their culture! Those women and thier families are scared because of those animals!! Also their is a distinct difference between being nude and wearing the wrong colored scarf as is in the case here!

[aslanlar]

If it's not ok in their culture then that sucks... It's not like i'm defending the men in this article because they're muslim, its just the ethnocentric aspect that i hate.

One question, how do you know its NOT ok in their culture? You'd think such acts of violance would relatively quickly be stamped out if it were queer situations.

[Panathinaikos2]

If it's not ok in their culture then that sucks... It's not like i'm defending the men in this article because they're muslim, its just the ethnocentric aspect that i hate.

One question, how do you know its NOT ok in their culture? You'd think such acts of violance would relatively quickly be stamped out if it were queer situations.What are you talking about Aslanar?? Just becuase their culture "permits" this type of actions that does not give the government of those countries the right to brutally have their women beat, maimed, or killed for not wearing their jihab or whatever. I doubt the women of those nations like to be treated this way.

[poutismalakas]

If it's not ok in their culture then that sucks... It's not like i'm defending the men in this article because they're muslim, its just the ethnocentric aspect that i hate.

One question, how do you know its NOT ok in their culture? You'd think such acts of violance would relatively quickly be stamped out if it were queer situations.
To answer that I would have to say I blame President Cheney and VP Bush who phuck up Iraq just so they could secure resources for profit! I hope Cheney rots in hell for the amount of damage he has cause for profit!

[aslanlar]

What are you talking about Aslanar?? Just becuase their culture "permits" this type of actions that does not give the government of those countries the right to brutally have their women beat, maimed, or killed for not wearing their jihab or whatever. I doubt the women of those nations like to be treated this way.

Sure it gives them the right to do that.
What gives the US the right to impose the death penalty for some1 who commits a crime?