Croatian clubs in Champions League

[LA CRO]

I was wondering what you guys think of Dinamo and Hajduk's chance of advancing to the group stages of CL are? If Hajduk do buy J.SImic and Bosnjak and dont sell the remaining players I feel they have a good shot at making it and I also feel that Dinamo have a chance if they don't sell Biscan or any of the remaining strikers they have.

[Prosinecki]

I think it all depends on who the teams are drawn against. If they draw a big Italian club, or Spanish or German club, they won't make it. Obviously it's harder for Hajduk since they have to go through two rounds, but hopefully they'll get some luck in the draw. Hajduk could have had it worse with their draw. I think they'll get to the third round at least.

[Purger II]

Bad news, guys. LA Cro, this is also an addition to what I already said to you earlier on Brit's Board. I said then that "Hajduk's" chances are minimal, and "Dinamo's" depending on the draw. In the meantime, UEFA has changed the method for determining seeded clubs in the draw (it happened a week or two ago), so "Dinamo" fell out of the group of the ones who are to be seeded. (I.e. "Dinamo's" chances are also minimal.)

So, in addition to the fact that "Dinamo" will be considerably weaker than last year (or two years ago), the list of possible opponents is extremely tough, and, I'm affraid, vast majority of them are for us currently unbeatable:

Inter Milano
Valencia
Porto
Lyon
Feyenoord
Slavia Prague
AC Milan
Dinamo Kiev
Rosenborg
Galatasaray
Lokomotiva Moskow
Panathenaikos
Leeds
Sparta Prague
Bröndbi
Glasgow Rangers

[This message has been edited by Purger II (edited 28 June 2000).]

[Zvonimir]

Woudln't that be great to see them play Milano and our very own Zvonimir Boban?

It certainly would be a bittersweet moment for Zvone playing against his former team and the one he captained before.

[Prosinecki]

I think we're capable of beating Brondby, and Rangers at least. These teams aren't that strong.

[OSFP]

Purger,

You forgot Olympiakos who is a tougher opponent than Panathinaikos. I think you will be able to beat Panathinaikos at home. Having said that they signed Goran Vlaovic to make up the loss of Asanovic who has gone to Austria. I would have expected these players to return to Croatia and boost the league.

I remember watching Croatia Zagreb playing Olympiakos in Athens. Olympiakos won 2-0 that night in a Champions League game, but "Dinamo" played really well and managed to get some good away wins especially in Amsterdam. There was one player Maric, who was fantastic in the middle.

One of your main problems are that most of your quality players are playing in Europe and some are even naturalised in that country eg. Belgium which has also affected your NT.

Last season you drew Man United which was a difficult task and they played them at Old Trafford in the first game.

To do well in the Champions League, the players should not be afraid of any big clubs such as Juve, Real etc. and match it with them. Most of the time it`s an inferior complex.

As for selling players, I have been told by a friend who is a Hajduk supporter that Dinamo are a wealthy club. Why are they selling quality players? Dinamo have won the championship for some time now so they should prepare for Champions League and spend some serious money.

[Purger II]

I did not forget "Olympiakos", only they really do not participate in the qualificaltions, since they are direct qualifiers.

"Dinamo" is not a wealthy club. Their budget is a very poor one compared to the budgets of Western-European clubs, even the moderate ones.

However, in last few years, "Dinamo" had bigger budget than any other Croatian club, with money resources in the national budget. But, of course, the same thing that your friend says about "Dinamo", many fans of, say, "Rijeka" or "Osijek" can say about "Hajduk", since "Hajduk" is also "wealthy" club, i.e. they also were getting money from the national budget, only not as much as "Dinamo". And, for that matter, "Rijeka" and "Osijek" were also using different mechanisms for pumping money from Croatian tax payers,...

As you can see, any pointing towards "other sides" is useless, since there is always some "answer" from that "other side". For that matter, "Hajduk" also participated in Champions League in the season of 1993/94, and earned, for the 1994 Croatian measures, huge money. And as if that was not enough, immediatelly after that, they sold all of their best players, for the money that was even bigger. Having all of that money on one pile, they could buy "everything that crawled" in Croatian football at that time, and rule it for next 20 years! However, instead of that, they declared that they are in heavy debts (??!!??), and they continued to buy mediocre players, while "Dinamo" was winning championships.

Now, if I was some "Hajduk" official who stole some money in 1994/95, I would also spread stories that "Dinamo" is a "wealthy club", so his titles are unfair, get it?

Oh, yes, maybe the word hasn't get to Australia, but Croatian financial police has done some investigations in all of the four clubs I mentioned. For now, several club officiels of "Hajduk" have been jailed (including club legends like Buljan or Rozic), and several others indicted. Similar thing is expected in next few days/weeks in "Dinamo", too, only not as spectacular as in "Hajduk". The new government in Croatia cleary said that there will be no further pumping out of the national budgets for football clubs, so both "Dinamo" and "Hajduk" had to cut down dramatically their already poor budgets.

If you ask me, the relity says that there will be even some further reductions.

You guys out there, in oversees countries have to get a grip on reality: Your fatherland is a poor country that can't afford financing domestic football, not even on the level that existed in last several years, while it was state-sponsored. The exodus of our most talented young players will get even heavier in the ongoing period, and they will go even earlier than before.

[Purger II]

Sorry, OSFP, I addressed you as if you were an oversees Croat, but now I see that you're in fact a Greek. As a Greek, you should remember the 1994/95 season Champions league qualifier that "Hajduk" lost to "Panathenaikos". Well, immediatelly after that match, they sold many players, including Asanovic, Stimac, Bilic, Jerkan, Rapajic, Mornar, Vucevic,... And the money misteriously "disappeared".

[OSFP]

Purger,

Yes I do remember that game Hajduk-Panathinaikos. Hajduk were unlucky not to go through. Panathinaikos reached the semis that year but were knocked out by Ajax.

I understand what you`re saying. Your late President, I was told was pumping big money into Dinamo. Is this true? By what you wrote, I take it there were handouts.

As for your talent going abroad, I know the lure of money is one thing, but would you say there are too many strikers that won`t get a run in the Croatian league and the NT and are getting naturalised in other countries in Europe!!! Not only are you selling them in the Croatian league, but for the NT as well.

Anyway, how many Croatian teams are allowed into UEFA? Greece lost a place over Czech Republic, which makes it difficult for a few teams to qualify.

[Purger II]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I understand what you`re saying. Your late President, I was told was pumping big money into Dinamo. Is this true? By what you wrote, I take it there were handouts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. ("Big money", of course, only relatively speaking, i.e. the money was big only in Croatian terms.

It was in fact the quasy-capitalistic (or quasi-democratic if you wish) version of the model that used to exist in ex-Yugoslavia where "Crvena Zvezda" was favored team.

However, I also wanted to present you the other side of the story saying that "Hajduk" was also getting the money "from the late President" (simplified but true, just like in the case of "Dinamo"), only not as big as in the case of "Dinamo", and, unlike in the case of "Dinamo", it was not being spent for international achievements (last 16 in UEFA Cup after great 5:0 victory over our arch-rivals of "Partizan" and then two consecutive years of Champions League), but for covering the debts left after the money got stolen.

[Dalmatinac]

I have to be bias and say that Hajduk will make it in, but unfortunatley, not very far in the tournament. They should not have a problem with Dunaferr, as long as they play as a unit. The question is who we will play next, I'm praying to god we play some serbian team, it's been a long time coming for Torcida to have some fun :)

PLEASE GOD LET CRV. ZVEDZA come to SPLIT. PLEAAAAASSSSE!!!!!



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--TORCIDA je ZAKON!!--
SAMO HAJDUK ZIVI VJECNO

[red star forever]

Why do you want Crvena Zvezda so bad???
Do you want your buts kicked like they have been kicked in the 46 years these teams have played against each other??? :)
I mean, come on, it would be like me saying, please God, let the Brazilian national team come to Belgrade!!! :D

Zvezda is something none of the former Yugo countries have, and that's a fact..The figures speak for themselves.. :D

And if we do meet, I think the red and white magicians will prove that.. :)

[Dalmatinac]

You can keep your past historic facts, the present is what I am worried about. Sure you guys were good when all the moeny from the Commi. Government was being pumped into you. All the players from the former yugo had to play for one of the Beograd teams if they wanted to be paid good $$$. But the past makes no difference, you talk like Hajduk never beat zvezda, which is ridiculous. I want you guys so bad because I would like to see your faces when you step into Poljud and see 30000 "Torcidasi" staring at you, all dressed in white, and singing "O Hajduce, O Hajduce, dica su tvoja uvik uz tebe!" And then the blazing speed of our players making you look like little kids on a play ground......

Plus, I think that it would be fun to see who's better in 2000, as I said, you keep your past, I'm interested in the present and future.

The sad thing is that even if you did come to Split to play, a very minimal amount of Delije would come and spectate. I doubt 10000 of you would come and watch Zvezda in the craziest town in Croatia (you think Zagreb is bad with BBB, in Split, Torcida beats up their own the players up if they screw around! :))

You have to admit, it would be alot of fun!

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--TORCIDA je ZAKON!!--
SAMO HAJDUK ZIVI VJECNO

[OSFP]

Purger,

Panathinaikos signed Saric from Croatia Zagreb??. What can you tell me about this player. Do you think Saric/Vlaovic combination would work well for Panathinaikos?

Thanks.

[Purger II]

For OSFP:

Saric is a very good player. He does have his limits, but I think that his temperament is very suitable for Mediterranean football, Greek one included. Him and Vlaovic did not play very many matches together (maybe 5-6 in national team, while Saric came to “Dinamo” after Vlaovic already left). However, I do not doubt that the common nationality and language will make them work on the cooperation on the pitch.


For Dalmatinac:

Unfortunately, there is no way that any of the Croatian teams in the qualifications for the Champions League gets “Zvezda”. If “Hajduk” and “Zvezda” break to third round at all, they will both be in the same pot (non-seeded one) as “Dinamo”, so the list of possible opponents that I gave above is valid for both of them, too.


For ‘red star forever’:

Maybe you really do have a twisted perspective about “46 years of kicking buts”, but the only but that got kicked in 46 years of rivalry between “Hajduk” and “Zvezda” was – your own! The statistic says: 92 matches, 35 won by “Hajduk”, 25 draws, and only 32 won by “Crvena zvezda”. The goal difference is 128 to 125 for “Hajduk”. “Hajduk” is the only club that had (and still has) a positive head-to-head record with “Crvena zvezda”. (By the way, “Dinamo” was the second one, all the way up to 1989, when “Zvezda” tied it, and then, only after the never played match of 1990 was registered as 0:3 for “Zvezda”, “Zvezda” went into a slight lead and that stayed up to now.) So I’d say that Dalmatinac has very good reasons for wishing to continue kicking “Zvezda’s” but!!! :D :D :D :D


[This message has been edited by Purger II (edited 03 July 2000).]

[red star forever]

hahahaha
Purger, that is crap and you know it..NOBODY in Yugoslavia (present and former) has a positive score with Zvezda... :) Sorry, but a fact is a fact..

Talking about the commo government pumping money into Zvezda is just as dumb, if any club was getting pumped with money, it was Partizan..In fact, they are getting it even now.. :(
It wasn't our fault we had the best players of that time such as Dzajic and Sekularac (do you really think they would have gone to Hajduk instead??!!), it wasn't our fault Prosinecki got dumped by Dinamo Zagreb, it wasn't our fault Belodedic himself decided to knock on Dzajic's door after running away from the Causesku regime...I mean give me a break!!! Those are just excuses that sore losers can make..

And Dalmatinac, OK, Torcida fans are pretty good, my opinion is that they are better than BBB, but come on, maybe there wouldn't be many Delije in Split, but are you trying to say there would be many Torcida fans in Belgrade??!! Get serious...
And when I compare 30,000 Torcida fans on Poljud with 55,000 Delije on Marakana, sorry, but I think your players would have more to fear... :D

Our performances in the last 5-6 years haven't exactly been exceptional, but every club has it's "dark hour",even if it is as great as Zvezda.. :)
Ours is over, and if you meet us, yours will begin.... :D

[Purger II]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH…. LOL…LOL…LOL…LOL…
:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

Wherever you live, you must be a local comedian. Well, it's either that or you really live in a dreamland where every dream is a sick one about your own supposed magnificence. The part about "Zvezda not being financially pumped by the ex-Yugo communist government" is not worth mentioning at all… You were probably not even born in those times.

As for the head-to-head record, just go to a site maintained by one fan of "Crvena Zvezda" (http://ww2.isys.ca/drazen/redstar.htm) who, unlike you, not only has a touch with reality, but is also older than 12. (Just click on "Yugoslavia "Big Four" Head-to-Head 1946-1991" (http://ww2.isys.ca/drazen/big_four.htm) … And hear me laughing while you do it! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!.)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

You see, I'm giving you those links only as a peer proof. However, unlike you, I do not need them to learn anything, since the fact that "Hajduk" is the only club from ex-Yugoslavia to have a positive head-to-head score against "Crvena Zvezda" is a well known one, and you look utterly ridiculous and immature by denying it.

See you on another ass-kicking on Poljud or Maksimir (when we all fail in 3rd round of CL qualifiers, we might meet in the UEFA Cup.)


[This message has been edited by Purger II (edited 03 July 2000).]

[Dalmatinac]

Purger II, I'm impressed :)

Red Star Forever, go read up on your team, then you can make educated statements about the past.



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--TORCIDA je ZAKON!!--
SAMO HAJDUK ZIVI VJECNO

[red star forever]

OK, so I got it wrong.. :D

I was sure I had seen a table with different figures and was about to look for it on the net, but I guess there is no point now..

But that still doesn't change the fact that we are first on the "Big Four" table, as we are on almost any other table, and Hajduk is 4th.. :D

As a matter of fact, now I would really like us to meet, we have some catching up to do..
And don't give me that crap again about Zvezda and the goverment, you haven't answered my question about Dzajic, Sekularac, Pizon, Stojkovic, Mitic, Kostic..
All of these players are the best former Yugoslavia had to offer, all Serbs, and they all played for Zvezda ( do you really believe they would have preffered Hajduk??)..
Partizan was the one that took away Bobek, Cajkovski, hell he even took away Mijatovic even though this guy had some preliminary contract signed with Hajduk!

Sorry, we can discuss as much as we like, but it is written down in all the books, that Zvezda is the best club in former Yugoslavia. Well done to Hajduk for having that positive score, but that is really all you can talk about.. :)
And if we meet, you are doomed.. :D

[Dalmatinac]

Pa cigane, 'ko te jebe.....Znan da bi tija doc na rivi malo uzivat, a neces moci. Cuj, ja bi tija samo da gledan atmosferu, kako bi toplo bilo protiv vas, a ne sada da cakulamo o' proslosti i ca ste bili. Pa ca ste sada? Nitko i nista. 'Ko za vas uopce igra? Srpski balun je otisa u drugu ligu, i osta ce tamo dok ti Milosevic sve kontrolira. Si s'konta? S'tebon se ne izplati pricat, jer si trvdo glav. Zapamti, SAMO HAJDUK ZIVI VJECNO I TORCIDA JE ZAKON!!

Si zapamtija? Grobari su pricali isti kurac prije 5-0 u Maksimiru, da su forza, i da su uvik bili najboji. Sad smo mi na redu da van dilimo paniku i batine! Aj'mo bili, naprid do Marakana!

Adio Crveni,

By the way, the foundation of your arguement is that Crv Zv was the best in yugo. WHO GIVES A FU(K??!! I'm talking about now, THE PRESENT, WE ARE NOT YUGO ANYMORE, YOU DON'T COME TO DALMACIJA FOR VACATIONS ANYMORE, YOU DONT GET ALL OF OUR MONEY IN BEOGRAD, YOU DON'T FLY YOUR COMMI FLAG IN HRVATSKA ANYMORE, SO WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT WHAT WAS, TALK ABOUT WHAT IS AND WHAT WILL BE.



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--TORCIDA je ZAKON!!--
SAMO HAJDUK ZIVI VJECNO

[red star forever]

Once again I am surprised by your incapabality of having a normal discussion..It is really shocking.. :D

I da znas, Zvezda ma gjde sada bila u evropskim okvirima, je daleko poznatiji klub od Hajduka i u kom ti svijetu zivis ja ne znam..
Kazes da zivim od proslosti, pa koji to vi kurac predstavljate u ovoj sadasnjosti????
Koja ste to vi sila postala, hajde mi to objasni molim te.. :D
A ko je ko, vidjecemo ako dodje do ovog susreta..