TSL Week 11: Fenerbahce vs. Besiktas

[Fenerliyim]

Lets see if we can finally break the legacy of not being able to beat BJK at home.

The ref will be Ismet Arzuman, so expect many "mistakes".

[Metink5]

ahh im going to miss this one, i have to work. but i think we can get a win. Besiktas will be looking to bounce back from there loss to Rize in the cup but we will play better with our starters.

[el Turco]

I'll miss the first half.

I'm taking the SATs. :(

Pray for me.

[Metink5]

why are we all from Jersey. haha i just noticed that

[SiN]

It will end 1-1 :)

But it will no doubt be another exciting derby. I will be watching with anticipation.

[Fener19*07bahce]

I'll miss the first half.

I'm taking the SATs. :(

Pray for me.
How are you going to be able to take the SAT's before derby? omgg, the only thing on my mind would be the game, iwish you good luck... About the game, a win would be a real confidence booster. Hopefully our men will come out strong

[F_PC_ENTER]

Good luck on the SAT.


Fener has to win this match, especially with penaltisaray being gifted penalties left and right.

[Fkilic]

If Besiktas beats Fenerbahce and Galatasaray beat Besiktas then Galatasaray beat Fenerbahce in a way

[F_PC_ENTER]

lol

[Fry36]

Hehe I like that.

[Fkilic]

Its science man

[SiN]

Hahahaha Fatih, you made me laugh so hard then :D

[F_PC_ENTER]

You guys think both teams should/will play a little LESS physical, since some critical CL games are next week?

[Fry36]

Yeah probably. But the fans will probably fire up the teams and it being a derby, I don't think it's going to affect the quality of the game. I hope it doesn't turn out like the GS-BJK game. That was too boring.

[Bosanac]

If Besiktas beats Fenerbahce and Galatasaray beat Besiktas then Galatasaray beat Fenerbahce in a way


:D

[SiN]

Does this match start at 6pm Turkish Time??

[Fenerliyim]

nope 7pm turkish time

[SiN]

Tamam sooo it starts in like 10 mins??

[Fenerliyim]

yep 7 minutes now

[SiN]

Awesome cant wait. The Atmosphere will be electric, im sure both teams will go for the win regardless of the CL matches coming up. Derbies are always big and i wanna see some action :D

[Fenerliyim]

3' BJK SCORE :scared:

[Fenerliyim]

haha 18' minute the asistant ref falls over trying to catch up to a fener attck.

But damn man we cant get 2 passes to connect ya

[Fenerliyim]

28' Goooooooooool Dievvvvvvvid

[Fenerliyim]

lol at cisse for the worst dive ever

[Vic]

haha 18' minute the asistant ref falls over trying to catch up to a fener attck.


:lol:

[Fkilic]

anyone have a soapcast channel

[Fenerliyim]

haha goool semih 2:1 GOOOOOOOOOOOL BEEEEEEEE

[Fenerliyim]

anyone have a soapcast channel

sop://broker1.sopcast.com:3912/35451

[Fenerliyim]

alex out for tumer, this is a huge change, could effect the game totally but PSV is more important so good decision

[Fkilic]

bull shit

[Fkilic]

bull ***king shit ... this is the second time this has happined to Besiktas

[Bosanac]

Fenerbahce players weren't even playing when Besiktas scored. It was a faul offense by Bobo.

[Fenerliyim]

hahah wee wiiiin we deserve, the curse is over

sen cok yasaaa ismet arzuman

[Fkilic]

were u watching the same game as me. if they weren't playing why were there guys on him when he scored

[Fkilic]

is ismet the ref

[Fkilic]

cause that guy is about to be rich

[Fkilic]

but i will say that both teams played very well and fener did seem to want the match more

[Bosanac]

were u watching the same game as me. if they weren't playing why were there guys on him when he scored


They were just watching, had their hands up.

[Fkilic]

watching while trying to take the ball from him

[Bosanac]

watching while trying to take the ball from him

I'm talking about the header

[Fkilic]

same here ... the other guy was trying to prevent the goal ...

[Bosanac]

same here ... the other guy was trying to prevent the goal ...


No dude, watch it again. He had his hand up while casually trying to prevent the goal

[aslanlar]

The FB defenders were all playin, just like the BJK attackers. It wasn't even a faul! I hope the ref got enough money from it ;)

On another note, a lot of the blame can/should be put on Arikan. At the beginning of the season i was pissed that he went to BJK and GS missed out on him and we got Orkun instead. Now though, i'm happy we didn't waste any money on him :D

[Bosanac]

The FB defenders were all playin, just like the BJK attackers. It wasn't even a faul! I hope the ref got enough money from it ;)



Can you tell me whether FB defenders and the goal keeper had their hands up while cross was bein delivered?

I'll post a picture a bit later to show you..when I get the highlights from Fenerliyim :)

Take a hint Fenerliyim :D

[Fenerliyim]

hehe wat a game though

Sinan Engin has announced BJK is pulling from the league, next week they will field their paf team

[Bosanac]

Can you give us the video of the last 2 minutes?

(sorry if I'm bein rude)

[Cihangir]

Do all you "Fenerlis" think Bobo commited a foul?

[Bosanac]

Do all you "Fenerlis" think Bobo commited a foul?


I watched the game on a very shitty stream quality, could hardly see what's happening. I will give you my opinion once I've seen the last 2 minutes.

However, from what I saw.. it seemed like Bobo had pushed the Fener player with his hand. I'm not sure though, I'll wait and see.

[Cihangir]

Alright then.

[Bosanac]

What's this about Besiktas leavin the TSL?

[Cihangir]

It's about our president being a dumbass hillbilly. But they do said we will be playing with the reserve team.

PS: Listened 3 Fenerli TV commentators, they're all in favor of Beşiktaş for that position calling it an unfortunate call by the ref.

[Cihangir]

Refs were really hard on BJK since the beginnig and our board went mental with this ridiculous call. It's a snowball got big.

[Bosanac]

Your president might as well wave the white flag.

[Cihangir]

White flag? Lol For what?

[Bosanac]

You know, as in defeat. White flag = Defeat


When you decide you want to take your team out of the league, it means you can't handle it.

[Cihangir]

Oh that, lol.

[Cihangir]

When you decide you want to take your team out of the league, it means you can't handle it.

Nothing is official. You know Aziz likes to talk a lot too. All presidents like to talk a lot.

[Bosanac]

Come on, Fenerliyim :bored:

[Cihangir]

Lol btw Bosanac, love your avatar. :p

[Fenerliyim]

There was no foul but Batuhan was offside when he got the ball, if u watched that position i dont think bobo or gokhan got a touch on that ball and it landed to Batuhan was offside when it was first passed.

[Bosanac]

It ain' black and white to symbolize Besiktas :D

[Cihangir]

There was no foul but Batuhan was offside when he got the ball, if u watched that position i dont think bobo or gokhan got a touch on that ball and it landed to Batuhan was offside when it was first passed.

Hmm that's a matter of dispute too.

[Cihangir]

It ain' black and white to symbolize Besiktas :D

Whateva you say Bos! :D

[Bosanac]

Whateva you say Bos! :D

Dude, okay, if it makes you feel better.


You lost the game, I can let this one fly by :D

[Cihangir]

Dude, okay, if it makes you feel better.


You lost the game, I can let this one fly by :D

Oh shut up i'm not even pissed. Take your game elsewhere. :P

[Bosanac]

Oh shut up i'm not even pissed. Take your game elsewhere. :P

If I know Besiktas fans, and I do, the Liverpool victory will keep you happy the whole season


Everything else.. can go to hell :D

[Fenerliyim]

Bobo Gol (http://www.mediafire.com/?5lzb0jj21nu)

Dievid Gol (http://www.mediafire.com/?fzfteiztze2)

Semih Gol (http://www.mediafire.com/?byxnynsj7fn)

Higuan Gol (disallowed) (http://www.mediafire.com/?6vppxbnm0v0)

[Cihangir]

If I know Besiktas fans, and I do, the Liverpool victory will keep you happy the whole season


Everything else.. can go to hell :D

And what's wrong with that!? :D
Same thing with you guys, glory glory Elvir Bolic? :D

[Bosanac]

Higuan Gol (disallowed) (http://www.mediafire.com/?6vppxbnm0v0)


There was a push or a shove of some kind. Besides, you could clearly hear refs whistle. Besiktas players should've gotten yellow cards.


PS: Thanks Fenerliyim :)

[Cihangir]

There was a push or a shove of some kind. Besides, you could clearly hear refs whistle. Besiktas players should've gotten yellow cards.


PS: Thanks Fenerliyim :)

Come on Bos, there is no push.. This is how they jump.
In that case Fener players should've gotten em also because they keep playin too.

[Bosanac]

I really don't see the point in arguing whether it was faul or not. If we do that, we could argue every single faul in the game. Besiktas did not stop playing and they should've after hearing the whistle.

I mean Fenerbahce could've continued playing and even supposebly scored when one of your faul was called.

You say Fenerbahce was playing, I say Fenerbahce was 'half-playing'. I don't know how else to put it, because they heard the refs whistle and I'm sure Besiktas players did too. Why did they (BjK) continue playing? I don't know, maybe for the sole purpose of creating controversy and having something to blame.

[Cihangir]

Okay to me referee's signal is clear for us, not the players. Batuhan is offside, Bobo's jump ain't a foul.

[Cihangir]

Why did they (BjK) continue playing? I don't know, maybe for the sole purpose of creating controversy and having something to blame.

Lol did you just edited this? Take it easy Bos. Do you really think a Beşiktaş player can think that deep during an attack in 90+5 at Kadıköy? Gimme a break.
I'm not arguing anything, it's just an unfortunate set of events.

[Bosanac]

Lol did you just edited this? Take it easy Bos. Do you really think a Beşiktaş player can think that deep during an attack in 90+5 at Kadıköy? Gimme a break.
I'm not arguing anything, it's just an unfortunate set of events.


Come on, it's a good theory. Why else would they keep playing?

How is it that Fenerbahce players heard the whistle, and Besiktas didn't?

They wanted to force a goal, no matter how. As long as they score, whether it was faul or offside.

[Fenerliyim]

i agree they tried forcing a goal, i mean the ref blew his whistle like 15 times during that goal.


But i doubt they tried to create contraversy, they cant think that much.


Wat u guys think of BJK pulling from the league? They will play the PAF team from now on.

I think thats idiocy, why ruin ur future. if u cant win the league at least try for a spot in europe.

and another thing is if u dont play ur guys in the league then they wont be match ready for their Champions League games

[Bosanac]

I doubt they'll pull out of the league, it was you know..just the 'first reactions'.

[Cihangir]

Come on, it's a good theory. Why else would they keep playing?

How is it that Fenerbahce players heard the whistle, and Besiktas didn't?

They wanted to force a goal, no matter how. As long as they score, whether it was faul or offside.

İbrahim Üzulmez himself declared after the game that he has heard the whistle. It's really funny to think that hearing depended on colors, as you say. Some of the players heard it and some did not the issue is not about that man. Batu is offside here and Bobo's position is not a faul. The real issue here is why is it foul but not offside? Either way the refs are wrong.

[Cihangir]

I doubt they'll pull out of the league, it was you know..just the 'first reactions'.

That is true, i've been watching the shows on tv and that angry tomatoe Sinan Engin 'updated' his 'first reaction' to "We will talk about it". I wonder what he'll be like in the morning. "Okay moving on to the next game fellas!"

[Fkilic]

okay its all over ... the game is over and Fener got 3 points. Good Job Fener (no sarcasim)

lets just put this behind us and move on

[Fkilic]

i just hope Besiktas can get at least a draw from Liverpool in England

And there broadcasting that game on ESPN2 here on the east coast of America

[Bosanac]

It doesn't depend on colors, well it does in a way. Besiktas heard it, but didn't want to accept it because they wanted to score so bad. Just because they ignored the whistle, we should argue here whether it was faul or not?

Like I said, that's not even the point. If we're going to argue this faul, let's pull out every single faul or position that's close to faul and argue.

Because on every single refs decision, either team could've scored by ignoring the refs whistle!

Player that crossed the ball along with the player who headered the ball in goal should've gotten yellow cards.

[Fenerliyim]

ACtually demiroren had a press conference which just finished, he said they are gonna play their paf teams, and if the sponsors want they can take back their sponsorship, they want ismet arzuman to retire and ulusoy to resign

[Cihangir]

It doesn't depend on colors, well it does in a way. Besiktas heard it, but didn't want to accept it because they wanted to score so bad. Just because they ignored the whistle, we should argue here whether it was faul or not?

Like I said, that's not even the point. If we're going to argue this faul, let's pull out every single faul or position that's close to faul and argue.

Yea in a way it depends just like you're ignoring me right now. :p The real issue here my friend is TFF's referees. Today it's us and tomorrow it's you. No one knows. Everybody is fed up with those refs and this is my point. I don't care about the score or anything because we don't have good referees in our already shitty league and it really brings my excitement and interest for football down in Turkey.

[Cihangir]

ACtually demiroren had a press conference which just finished, he said they are gonna play their paf teams, and if the sponsors want they can take back their sponsorship, they want ismet arzuman to retire and ulusoy to resign

Yea that's just in.
You know i really don't give a livin crap about this thing. Would be much more interesting to see the reserves.
It's the peak of stupidness and unnecessity but it's unfortunate that he's the president.

[Bosanac]

Yea in a way it depends just like you're ignoring me right now. :p The real issue here my friend is TFF's referees. Today it's us and tomorrow it's you. No one knows. Everybody is fed up with those refs and this is my point. I don't care about the score or anything because we don't have good referees in our already shitty league and it really brings my excitement and interest for football down in Turkey.


I certainly see where you're coming from, but.. you can't say the ref killed the game because we know one position can't decide the game. I mean, you should blame Bobo for missing that one-on-one rather than blaming the ref for making a call.

[Cihangir]

I certainly see where you're coming from, but.. you can't say the ref killed the game because we know one position can't decide the game. I mean, you should blame Bobo for missing that one-on-one rather than blaming the ref for making a call.

I do mate but it's pointless to do it in Fenerbahçe section. :p
But is this the path you'd follow if it was Fenerbahçe 1-2 Beşiktaş?

[Bosanac]

I wouldn't hang on to one position, that's for sure.

[Fenerliyim]

if fb was in bjk's position which is how usually we are, i would be saying the same thing

[Cihangir]

if fb was in bjk's position which is how usually we are, i would be saying the same thing

"Bugün bize yarın size" is exactly what i'm saying and Fener has been there.

[Fenerliyim]

i mean forget the wrong calls made against us in this lig, but lets look at the wrong calls in GS games which favor them game in and game out is ridiculous, no way would they be 1st if ulusoy wasnt president

[Fenerliyim]

http://fenerbahce.org/icerik/haber/9230/

BJK fans have burned stuff in the visitors section, ruined the bathrooms and have injured many other fenerbahce fans from the tiles they have gotten from the bathrooms.

Also the BJK players have also damaged stuff in the locker room

[Fkilic]

i wish i could read turksih better

[Fener19*07bahce]

rip off a chair and protect yourself, idont understand why fenrebahce fans get hurt like this.

[Fkilic]

that was beautiful what you just said

[Fry36]

I'm really sorry about this match turning into the type that leaves people talking more about the referees and administration decisions than the football that was being played.

Besiktas started the game 1-0 ahead before Fenerbahce could start playing. I can't really say there was a huge mistake done by our defense, it was just a really brilliant pass by Delgado, and a strike by Bobo. Anyway, this gave off the signals that Fener would put more pressure on the game in the coming minutes.

And that did happen. Fenerbahce started increasing the tempo with smart runs at the wings. Besiktas controlled the midfield, but the wings were being run freely by Fener most of the time. This eventually lead to a corner kick in Fener's favor, after a long possession at Besiktas' half. A classic use of a corner kick by Alex gave Fener the goal they were looking for, with a nice header by Deivid which was the result of the BJK defense pretty much sleeping. The ball went in between Hakan's legs, by the way, which I thought was...special.

Anyway the first half finished like that, and it seemed like a really high tempo game, with Besiktas controlling the midfield throughout the 45 minutes because of Deniz and Aurelio's bad passes and inability to speed up with the ball. By the way, Gokhan Zan needs to get himself together. Every player gets injured once in a while but Gokhan Zan does this way too often, and this time he managed to get injured while kicking the ball.

The second half started off and we started to notice a potential star in Turkish football, Gokhan Gonul. He ripped through the midfield with every ball he took, running through the opposing players and making smart passes, building a good deal of Fenerbahce attacks. Fener also started to test Hakan with shots from distance. This is also how the 2nd goal came about. A R. Carlos strike was blocked by Ibrahim Uzulmez. The ball bounced back and Carlos tried again; making Edu meet the ball with his head and find Deivid. Deivid struck the ball from a fairly distant place and the ball bounced off Hakan's chest. There were 3 Fener players waiting for the ball right in front of the goalkeeper, so the goal was inevitable after that point.

Besiktas also had quite a few chances. Bobo wanted to try his luck without seeing Burak waiting on the side, which probably had the Fener defense thanking God. The defense was making critical mistakes. Through balls and passes over Edu-Lugano's reach created major problems for Volkan, who was actually pretty successful until the end, when young Batuhan managed to trick Volkan into coming out of his area. Batuhan made the mistake of his short career by trying to shoot from that position, not even looking at Higuain who couldn't be any open-er.

The absence of Tello on the left was really being felt; with nobody to accurately cross the ball into the box or make good use of empty space in Besiktas' wings, the team really had trouble trying to stop Gokhan and Deivid from making dangerous runs. Another thing I noticed was the fact that as Fenerbahce played more games in the CL, they learned how to keep hold of the ball, even if it meant being aggressive. The same could not be said for BJK however, because mostly in the CL, they were the ones having to take aggressive tackles. So in a sense we could say Fener learned how to play European football but is having trouble keeping it under control, as the referee chose not to show cards at multiple times. Deivid's hard tackle on Serdar Ozkan deserved a yellow, which would be his 2nd in the game, and Semih pulling Ali Tandogan also deserved a 2nd yellow. But if I was a Besiktas fan I couldn't feel good about complaining about these, because Burak, Ibrahim Uzulmez, Ibrahim Toraman, and Cisse constantly talked back at the referee, sometimes deserving yellow cards that were not always focused on by LigTV cameras.

Then came the breaking point, the attack that is probably going to be talked about for a really long time in the media. Gokhan Gonul jumped for an aerial ball aimed at Bobo, who also jumped to find the header but failed. In the process, Bobo put his hand on his opponents shoulder and tried to stop Gokhan from properly jumping for the ball, which in football rules is a definite foul. As you all know, a defender can jump over his opponent and not get a foul if his hands are not on his opponent blocking him from getting fair room to jump for the ball himself. This resulted in Gokhan falling, which had the referee blow his whistle. Somehow, nobody heard this until after the game when the replays were being shown. If you watch the replays, the whistle can be heard after the foul, and you will see a few Fener defenders raise their hands. But what you will also see is none of BJK players caring, which continues the post-foul attack with an Ibrahim Uzulmez cross (an accurate one at that) meet with a Higuan header destined to hit the back of the net.

This is where the argument starts, actually. The 2 sides in this argument is: Besiktas is saying that it's a goal cancelled because everybody kept playing after the whistle. For Fenerbahce, its a foul not listened to by Besiktas players. The truth to me is, the goal happened approximately 10 seconds after the foul, which is whistled only a second after the act was committed. If you let go of a foul position in every game and let it go on for 10 seconds, there will be many more of these goals "not given".

Anyway, there's no wonder that BOTH BJK and Fener got hurt throughout this season with referee mistakes, and Besiktas administrators who were against Fenerbahce administrators talking about the referee before the game started, went away and talked about the referee after the game started and somehow it was okay. What I want to know is, who is running Besiktas? Sinan Engin said "I just talked to Yildirim Demiroren over the phone, we're pulling out Besiktas from the league and playing our future games with our youth team." Mr Engin...are you serious? What are you running here, a restaurant? Is this how football clubs are run? You get a call and commit a first in a century old club's history? Is there no committee or something?

Another thing that had me wondering was the always "delikanli" Besiktas fans throwing seats at people below them, whom were mostly women and kids. I know these things happen, but I just can't take Carsi talking that "we are the public's image" stuff anymore. I mean, us Fener fans are considered as "serefsiz, haysiyetsiz, etc" by you guys, and you are the model citizens of the country and model fans of the sport? Please...

Overall, it was an enjoyable, high tempo game. I liked what I saw from my team and am hopeful about the game against PSV, and I noticed Besiktas played better in this game than the game against Liverpool so they are also making progress. What I didn't like was the administrators of teams saying things they won't be able to handle in the future. They are swallowing their words one by one as weeks go by. I'd like to remind everyone of the instance when Aziz Yildirim threatened the league by saying "I'm pulling Fener out." which of course didn't happen but was met with comments like "stop crying" "wow, classic Fener" and "the news we've wanted to hear years ago". I'd like to ask those people this: What now? Are you now convinced that no administration member in this country is different from the next? That Yildirim Demiroren is following in the footsteps of Aziz Yildirim, and Sinan Engin is no different than Nihat Ozdemir when complaining is the case?

You might not think so, but every year a club from the top 3 are favored over the other by the TFF and the MHK, and this year is no different. All 3 teams had years this was done to them, and apparently it's Galatasaray's turn now, and it's kind of pointless to complain about all this now. I mean, this team being Fenerbahce or Besiktas in the future is really inevitable. Just like how Fener had handmade goals being given and unbelievable fouls whistled for them, this year Galatasaray is getting no penatly missed or overlooked, and Fener is having no penalties given. This also happened to Besiktas before, notably in 2003, a year before it happened to Fener. Did it affect the league's standings overall? To an extent. Right now Besiktas and Fenerbahce are both in the top 4, and Sivas is in 2nd place, which means if the federation's plan is to make GS the champions of 2008, it's not fully working yet, and everything's not over. Will other teams get their turns? Of course. Is football legit in Turkey? No. Do players who play well always finish well? No. Do our teams play well every year? Nope. Do teams who are pulled from behind somehow end up succeeding? Yes they do. The hand of outer forces is only felt subtly throughout the weeks and football is still seen in the front but it doesn't change the fact that strings are being pulled, and this won't change until this generation of federation members and administrators aren't out of their seats forever.

[F_PC_ENTER]

Whether BJK got ripped off or not, I just can't understand how penaltisaray fans can come in here and calling out "injustice". Ya'll should be the LAST people to be doing that.

And think of it this way: it's 'bout time FENER got some ref help (and today's incident truly was a mistake, and not a "mistake").

So go away penaltisaray fans.

[Bosanac]

And think of it this way: it's 'bout time FENER got some ref help (and today's incident truly was a mistake, and not a "mistake").


Please, explain to me. How was it a mistake?

[Bosanac]

@Fry - I'm afraid to read your post, I might fall asleep. Maybe right before I go to bed :D

[F_PC_ENTER]

No foul on the Fener player + the ref called it = mistake.

Simple math.

[Fry36]

@Fry - I'm afraid to read your post, I might fall asleep. Maybe right before I go to bed :D
Heh that's the shortened version. I wrote like 3 more paragraphs but decided that was too long. :D

[Bosanac]

No foul on the Fener player + the ref called it = mistake.

Simple math.


You didn't see that Fenerbahce player would've actually jumped higher and head the ball if he wasn't pushed?

[F_PC_ENTER]

^^^^^ Challenges like that happen all game long,,,, this one was no different.

I'm a Fener fan, a fair and objective one.

[Bosanac]

Yeah, but do you realize how many fauls like that are given?


Except this one, of course.

[F_PC_ENTER]

huh?

That's what I'm saying guy.

It was NOT a foul. Should NOT have been called. Mistake.

[Bosanac]

No, what I'm saying is.. A lot of fauls like this are given, and all of a sudden it's a mistake? Come on now, what's the difference between this faul, and so many in the game that were also mistakes like this? Oh, right, this one is important because Besiktas players ignored the whistle and scored. How many times could Fenerbahce have done that?

"Oh, we don't think it's a faul.. so we'll keep playing."

[Fry36]

Even if it's not a foul, the problem is the whistle was blown and players kept playing. You know what that's like? Mahalle maclarinda "ama adamin devam etti!" demek gibi. Foul or not, if you keep playing after a whistle has blown, chances are you'll see a lot of goals. This is true for many games. Whistle means stop. They didn't stop. They scores. Naturally it didn't count.

[Bosanac]

Fry, you stole my point :D

I just don't understand why Besiktas feels robbed.

[F_PC_ENTER]

Nevertheless,

back to this post of mine, http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showpost.php?p=896451&postcount=96 , penaltisaray fans don't have a SINGLE RIGHT to complain.

[F_PC_ENTER]

btw, was it me or did anyone else notice that the Fener crowd's volume was lowered by lig tv?

I'm 50-50 on this.

[SiN]

Damn, couldint you guys have drawn 1-1 like i predicted?

So what happened after the match? Crowd violence?

[Fry36]

Damn, couldint you guys have drawn 1-1 like i predicted?

So what happened after the match? Crowd violence?
Carsi pretty much burned down their seats, threw em around, for some reason aiming them at the block that seated kids and women. Broke stuff in the bathroom, tried to tear down walls, etc. I think there was a fight or two afterwards too. That's what I heard from people who went to the game.

http://fenerbahce.org/pic_lib/2007-11-03_tribUn.jpg

[F_PC_ENTER]

Animals.

[Fener19*07bahce]

Animals.
agree..And anyone have the goals? i didnt get a chance to watch the game.

[Bosanac]

agree..And anyone have the goals? i didnt get a chance to watch the game.

Yes, Fenerliyim posted them on this thread. Check the fourth, fifth and sixth pages. I'm not sure which one it is

[Fenerliyim]

btw, was it me or did anyone else notice that the Fener crowd's volume was lowered by lig tv?

I'm 50-50 on this.


yea definetly, all of sudden the chants would be barely heard, and sometimes u could tell when they were lowering it and highering it, i think we were too loud so the commentator was barely being heard or something

[Fenerliyim]

@fry wow great analysis of the game.

ur a huge asset to this forum

[Fry36]

Thanks dude. I just wish people didn't notice these things in Turkish football only when it hurt them directly. I'd rather have Fenerbahce lose by a dozen than take 3 points that aren't rightfully earned. I think most football fans feel the same way but for some reason they doubt other teams' fans that they do. With supporting a team comes a huge ego. Usually an over inflated ego. I think this is what blinds fans from reading between the lines. I mean, come on guys. Don't you think there's something wrong with Trabzonspor not being able to win the title ONCE in the last 25 years, when the football they play is no worse than the top 3 teams most of the time? I'm not talking about this year, but many instances in the years before prove that sometimes even teams that deserve to be in better places get pulled down. Do I think Turkey doesn't want Besiktas to win the title ever again like Yildirim Demiroren says? No. That's stupid. But I do think the federation and media take turns subtly supporting these teams. These subtle games could be seen all throughout football. From the head honcho's trivial comments to LigTV cameras being picky about what they show or be heard.

Oh and for the record, LigTV turns down the volume when there's cursing being heard from the fans.

[SiN]

I always expected either the Genc FB or Carsi to start something :lol:

Agreed with Fener, Fry you are a huge assest here buddy, keep up the great work ;)

[aslanlar]

Back to the game. Am i the only one that thinks Rustu should start instead of Arikan? Both goals were his fault.

[F_PC_ENTER]

Yeah, Arikan is the Volkan Demirel of BJK, albeit Volkan's been doing decent as of late.

[SiN]

I never really trusted Arikan with that position, he has defenitley proven that last night.

Volkan is back in form!

[Cihangir]

Bosanac you are totally not "just". It's really funny that you think it's a foul. I seriously think that you think this way because you can't help your feelings.

Today i listened the thoughts of a lot of football critics and they were pointing out the same thing, it was a ref mistake. Beşiktaş critics say that the game was "arranged" and shit. Especially Kazım Kanat was saying right from the beginning ref. started showing yellows to Beşiktaş players just to hold em back. What he was forgetting is that before the match BJK board approved the ref and Fener board did not!
I also saw something i idn't realize yesterday watching the videos. Batu is technically not offside because the ball is not coming to him, it's comin to Bobo. No one really talked about that, the focus was on the "foul position."
It's odd really... :s

[Fenerliyim]

Well it doesnt matter who the ball is coming to, it matters who the ball touches, obviously bobo didnt touch it and batuhan got it which means an offside player was the first to touch the ball so it should have been ruled offside

[el Turco]

it was a foul.

If you touch a guy when he is airborne, that's a foul. End of the story. :)

[Cihangir]

el Turco come on man. Seriously come on. :) I don't know to what degree people can watch Turkish TV here but I haven't heard an authority calling it a foul except the ref and now he's being crucified. I'm not so sure about the offisde but it's not a foul.
The pitch is full of this plays, there is no charce by Bobo, Fener player may fall without faking it since he's in the air and vulnerable and Bobo intends to jump too. That's how the players jump and you know(!) it's just a normal drill. It's not a foul and the offside is open for dispute.

Fenerliyim: I understand that but i also want you to notice that when Toraman kicks the ball to Bobo Batuhan starts to run to the opposite side and after Bobo misses the ball Batu runs a bit of a long way to get the ball so it may not as well be an offside.

[Fenerliyim]

yea but he was offside when the ball was passed, him running a long way doesnt change the rule.

BTW i personally wouldnt have called a foul but i can see y he called a foul, i mean bobo's hand was on gokhan gonul and he pulled him not letting him getting his maximum air.

And Hilmi Ok is on Ligtv right now, hes the referee president. He says that the Bobo-Gokhan position is a foul. i'll put his reaction up later

[Fenerliyim]

and now Hilmi Ok has said that goal is offside as well

[Cihangir]

Talk about İsmet Arzuman's confessions too.

[Fenerliyim]

Ismet was behind his calls for the Gokhan-Bobo position, he also backed his call of not giving Semih his 2nd yellow card. But he did say looking at the video he would of given Dievid his 2nd yellow card but from his view he had it looked like mistimed tackle then anything

[Fry36]

Putting Ismet Arzuman on Maraton was no different than throwing him into a circle of hungry wolves. I'm sorry but Sansal Buyuka asking him questions he knows the answers to won't help much. We know the ref wasn't good. We know the cards weren't given. What did we get from crucifying him on national tv? Now Hilmi Ok is being bombarded with Erman's questions. Erman didn't let the guy say a word. Disgusting. I'm not fond of any of the 4 people we're seeing on Maraton and it's becoming an "agree with the lesser of 4 evils" thing. Erman Toroglu is afraid of swallowing his words so he tries to shut Hilmi Ok up. Hilmi Ok is saying things going against Ismet Arzuman's views so that I thought was interesting. Anyway I doubt this would change anything but I'm happy to hear we're finally getting the headset technology. And at least Hilmi Ok is going to do something about the ref assistants being too involved with the decisions of the ref.

[Cihangir]

I wish i could watch lig tv.
I'm okay with the offside call but I don't care for his backing up for Bobo position man. I don't care about the match or score or anything. That position is a joke! Ne biçim fauller oluyor o yükselmelerde de çalmıyorlar ya. Ya hep çalsınlar böylelerini ya da hiç!
I hate this difference between paper and practice.

[Fry36]

Well to be fair even if it was a foul not worthy of a whistle, nobody could say the goal was stolen from Besiktas. The players shouldn't have went on after the whistle was heard. As I said before I believe these arguments would be made every week if players just went on after the whistles in every game. Think of the amount of extra positions and goals that would be allowed after a foul.

[Fenerliyim]

IF that position had not led to goal, i mean if Volkan had saved it, we wouldnt even be talking about right now.

[F_PC_ENTER]

it was a foul.

If you touch a guy when he is airborne, that's a foul. End of the story. :)
Are you kidding me? As I've posted earlier in the thread, those kinds of 50-50 airball challenges happen all the time in every game and 98% are not whistled as a foul.

[Cihangir]

IF that position had not led to goal, i mean if Volkan had saved it, we wouldnt even be talking about right now.

Would you not talk if Fener got a disallowed goal on 90+5 at İnönü with a highly disputable whistle? That's a normal reaction. :P

Oh and Bobo touches the ball. Lol

[Fenerliyim]

no way Bobo touched the ball

Do we all agree that that position is a 50/50? It could be called either way, usually its not called but this time it was. Now i personally as a ref would not have called it but i can't say the ref made a wrong call by callin it cause its a matter of opinion.

Watch Gokhan, he jumps as hes goin in the air, Bobo grabs his shoulder and jumps after him this causes gokhan not to be able to get his maximum air which causes him to miss the ball which led to the goal. So there is reason for it to be called a foul, if Umit Karan's penalty last week was called then this should have been called as well. Cause its pretty much the same thing. A slight touch to throw off the other guys balance causing him to fall.

[Cihangir]

We should get all the people to watch the footage and take their opinions of whether bobo touched the ball or not. The ball hits his head, crystal clear.

I think Bobo does not grab him, that's ridiculous, if it was a grab he would fall right where he jumped and Bobo would fall as well. The minute Bobo's arm touches him, Gokhan still gains height and by the time Bobo jumps and makes a move for a header Gokhan falls forward. (bobo makes a move to touch the ball, i see nothing wrong with that) This is how players jump and it's not called. When it's called it's a matter of dispute even in min 5.

[Cihangir]

http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h180/VicomtedeValmont/?action=view&current=demi.flv

Anyone have a look at that and tell me what you think?

[el Turco]

Are you kidding me? As I've posted earlier in the thread, those kinds of 50-50 airball challenges happen all the time in every game and 98% are not whistled as a foul.

Bobo's timing was off, Gokhan jumps first end gets in front of him. Then Bobo gives him a little push with his shoulder/arm which causes Gokhan to lose his balance on the air and therefore miss the ball and fall down. Ismet Arzuman said that's is the rule of football that FIFA teaches, you can not touch the guy when he is airborne.
Plus, it was obvious in today's Maraton with zoomed in replay's. I hate Arzuman, but he presented his case very well today.

Bu arada bu Erman ne kadar uyuz ve zavalli bir adam. Yillardan beri havadaki adama parmaginla dokunamassin diyen adam, bugun neredeyse Bobo hic dokunmadi diyecekti. Zaten ne zaman Hilmi OK onu koseye sIkIstirsa, seviyesiz laflarla isin icinden cikmaya calisti.

[el Turco]

http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h180/VicomtedeValmont/?action=view&current=demi.flv

Anyone have a look at that and tell me what you think?

But that's like 100 meters away, how can you come up with a decision from that distance?

And, Cihangir concerning your earlier question, we do get a lot of Turkish Tv here, but I dont just watch it a lot. Turkiye'de medya ve televizyonculuk cok seviyesiz. Bugun Maraton'daki Erman-Sansal ikilisinin yaptiklari gibi. :)


@Fenerliyim, did you record today's Maraton?

[Cihangir]

Yea i know but that's the only vid i have thanks to Fenerliyim. :p In the highlights i saw in TRT1, i saw that Bobo touched it it was a close angle.
I think he touches. Notice that he makes an effort to give a direction to the ball with the headr and this is exactly why Gökhan falls.

[Cihangir]

Ismet Arzuman said that's is the rule of football that FIFA teaches, you can not touch the guy when he is airborne.

That's right you can not push him but players always jump with their arms wide open and hustlin the opponent, it's just a regular jump. Players on air are vulnerable and it's not always a foul if they fall. Unless you don't do a "kambura yatmak." Come on man we all played football lmao. What are we in a gay league? :D They both jump and Bobo manages to touch the ball.
I'm pretty sure we'll see a lot of examples of this in our league and in other leages which will prove me right. So i'm relaxed about the situation.

[el Turco]

That's right you can not push him but players always jump with their arms wide open and hustlin the opponent, it's just a regular jump. Players on air are vulnerable and it's not always a foul if they fall. Unless you don't do a "kambura yatmak." Come on man we all played football lmao. What are we in a gay league? :D They both jump and Bobo manages to touch the ball.
I'm pretty sure we'll see a lot of examples of this in our league and in other leages which will prove me right. So i'm relaxed about the situation.

Your argument would have been right if both players were up in the air when the pushing occurs. But Bobo was actually still on the ground when he started to push Gokhan. :)

[Cihangir]

http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h180/VicomtedeValmont/?action=view&current=demi2.flv

Okay the second one here looks like Gökhan touched it. Lmao :D

No the "push" occured in the air. And the push was to kick the ball. look when Gökhans body twists on the vid.

[el Turco]

http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h180/VicomtedeValmont/?action=view&current=demi2.flv

Okay the second one here looks like Gökhan touched it. Lmao :D

No the "push" occured in the air. And the push was to kick the ball. look when Gökhans body twists on the vid.

Well, if you get a chance to see the replays that they showed in Maraton today, you'll see Bobo started to push when he was still standing. And puch had nothing to with the ball imo, he just pushed Gokhan so he wouldnt be able to hit the ball. :)

[Cihangir]

If you're not satisfied with the footage at hand bring better ones so that there's no misunderstanding.

[Fenerliyim]

yea i recorded maraton, i'll bring it and its very obvious

[Cihangir]

yea i recorded maraton, i'll bring it and its very obvious

Alright man respek! You're tha provider. :D

[el Turco]

If you're not satisfied with the footage at hand bring better ones so that there's no misunderstanding.
trust me, with the better footage you will get a better sense of wat's goin on. Because, i didnt see the last 5 mins of the game live, and when i saw that incident on the internet with poor footage, i was like Besiktas got robbed. Bu then I watched Maraton today, and now I am 100% sure that was a foul. :)

[F_PC_ENTER]

Bobo's timing was off, Gokhan jumps first end get in front of him. Then Bobo gives him a little push with his shoulder/arm which causes Gokhan to lose his balance on the air and therefore miss the ball and fall down. Ismet Arzuman said that's is the rule of football that FIFA teaches, you can not touch the guy when he is airborne.
Plus, it was obvious in today's Maraton with zoomed in replay's. I hate Arzuman, but he presented him case very well today.

Bu arada bu Erman ne kadar uyuz ve zavalli bir adam. Yillardan beri havadaki adama parmaginla dokunamassin diyen adam, bugun neredeyse Bobo hic dokunmadi diyecekti. Zaten ne zaman Hilmi OK onu koseye sIkIstirsa, seviyesiz laflarla isin icinden cikmaya calisti.
You know, I stand corrected.

After I heard Arzuman plead his case on Maraton, yeah, he was right in calling a foul. He seemed like he genuinely did not have any ill intent with his calls, and even admits the mistakes he made throughout the match.

Ne diyeyim, tukurdugumuzu yalamayi biliriz :D

[el Turco]

Ne diyeyim, tukurdugumuzu yalamayi biliriz :D

Estagfurullah. :)

[Fenerliyim]

Here is Hilmi Ok explaining the foul:

http://www.mediafire.com/?7nzlxyvmzb4

[F_PC_ENTER]

Thanx Fenerliyim, as usual.

[F_PC_ENTER]

btw, if you have anymore clips from Maraton, feel free to post ;)

[Soonerfan1590]

hello you guys, my name is Senan, this is my first post on this forum but i have been following your guys posts for the past month or so (ive been too lazy to register :). I am turkish and from Missouri and I like how many of the people on this forum are from America as well.

I would just like to comment on the Besiktas reaction to the last couple of games vs fenerbahce and liverpool. Before these two meetings I never really had a problem with BJK, but what is their problem? why cant they just take a defeat without complaining. I missed the game but I have seen the highlights and I did see some contact in the 90 +5' foul. Even if the call was a little unfair, BJK has blown the issue way out of proportion. Fenerbahce has been dealing with these kind of unfairnesses for the past 5-10 years and we dont complain! Just look at the BJK website and the headlines say it all, "Fenrbahçe: 2 – Beşiktaş: 1, By Refeere’s Decision!". This would never be the headline on the Fenerbahce website even if we were cheated. Also, I cant find a single BJK press release of the game vs Liverpool on their website. What are they trying to do...avoid having to state their historic loss.

Like ive said, I have nothing against the BJK team or their supporters, but the commitee and president have acted very unprofessional over the last week.

[el Turco]

Soonerfan1590, welcome. :)