Serbia - Kosovo = War [Archive] - Soccer Fans Network Forums

Pape

10-21-2007, 05:55 AM

Ohhh you dear Europe and America. Take away Kosovo from Serbia, and grant it to the friends the Albanians who have after murdering 800,000 Serbs in WWII as part of the Hitler Nazis with the Croats and Bosnian Muslims, illegally crossed into, trespassed, and spilled themselves into the holly land of the Serbs, Kosovo, taken majority and today push for independence.

Just some facts and words of thoughts...

Since the conflict in Kosovo in 1999, some estimated 250,000 - 300,000 Serbs have been forced to flee Kosovo, had their homes burnt, and almost the cradle of their Christian Orthodox religion destroyed with about 80 churches and monastaries burned to date.

Grant them this land and their freedom fighter army and government (KLA) which is composed by drug lords and terrorists who have alliances and the strongest of the contacts in Europe with all of the major Islamic terrorist groups today.

Grant them this and you most likely will never receive their, what would be I'm sure would be a genorous thank you gift, as Serbia without Kosovo is not Serbia and Serbs without Serbia are not Serbs.

Serbia would never do to Europe what Europe is doing to Serbia, and the Serbs love the Europe as if it was their own because Europe is our home, and Europe is your home, and it is not their home.

So please after December 10th of this year when diplomatic efforts to settle the issue fail, because for them there is only one way, think about what Serbs are doing to protect our home when you are bombing and killing us, and before than Europe if you believe Europe is not the home for Serbs, think about what you are doing to protect your own home.

Pape

10-21-2007, 05:55 AM

Modern day struggles of Serbs in their own home of Kosovo. Here's some burned villages, lives of refugees, UN "helping" the Serbs, by helping them move out of Kosovo, some examples of Serbs that were beat by mobs, and head of UNMIK Harri Holkeri touring burned Serbian houses at Lipljan.
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Izbegli%20Srbi%20privremeno%20smesteni%20u%20porti%20Manastira%20Gracanica.jpg
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Tan18913.jpg
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Zapaljene%20srpske%20kuce%20u%20Caglavici%20(FOTO%20AP).jpg
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Zapaljene%20srpske%20kuce%20u%20Caglavici%20(FOTO%20AP).jpg
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/40321010.jpg
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/40322026.jpg
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Evakuacija%20preostalih%20Srba%20iz%20gradova%20na%20Kosovu%20i%20Metohiji.jpg
Evacuation of the remaining Serbs form the towns in Kosovo and Metohija
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Obilic-School.jpg
A Serbian school in Obilic, 10 km west from Pristina was burned by Kosovo Albanian mob in March 17-18 pogrom. A sign of the European Agency for Reconstruction which funded the school in order to help Serb children have a normal childhood and education stands as a sad remainder of a failed "peace mission"

Pape

10-21-2007, 06:05 AM

Now the love these people show torwards orthodox Christians and I'm sure they share similar thoughts about their European and American allies.

76 churches destroyed since the conflict in 1999, and additional 140 were destroyed during the UN Peace mission in 1999.

http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/KOSOVO,%2022.%2003.%202004.-Unistene%20crkve%20i%20manastiri%20na%20Kosovu%20(SPC).jpg
Map of the major churches and monasteries that were destroyed in Kosovo.

http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Podujevo-Church.jpg
Podujevo Serbian Orthodox church burned and destroyed by explosives. The Czech KFOR contingent which guarded this only remaining Serbian church in the area was helpless in front of a well organized Albanian mob. Czech captain Jindrich Plescher: "We were defending a Serb Orthodox church in the town of Podujevo against a mob of 500 Albanians, but there were too many for us," he recalled. "When they broke through the wall [around the church], we got orders to retreat." "They smashed everything inside, including our communications center, made a big pile in front and set it on fire. Then they turned their attention to the adjacent Serb cemetery. They knocked over tombstones, dug up the coffins and scattered the bones in them. I have never seen anything like it".

Here's the video of the Albanians destroying this church.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Pg-bYIqgaE

http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Smoke-billows-from-Serbian-.jpg

http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/cathedral.jpg

http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/spaljene%20crkve007.jpg

http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Zapaljeni%20manastir%20Sv.%20Arhangeli%20u%20Prizrenu.jpg

http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Burned-monastery-of-the-Hol.jpg

http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Burned-church-Christ-the-Sa.jpg

http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Prizren%20nakon%20nedavnog%20talasa%20nasilja%20na%20Kosovu%20(Glas%20juga).jpg

http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Prizren2.jpg

http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Tan66400.jpg
These horrific scenes of extreme lack of culture and savagery in the center of Pristina where, in addition to the Albanians, several thousand foreigners are living who can see the humiliated church for themselves, are a stain not only on the Pristina municipal administration and Pristna University but also on the UN mission which five years ago undertook to preserve a multiethnic society in Kosovo and Metohija," said Bishop Artemije. In a statement for the ERP KIM Info Service, the Bishop added: "In addition to all the horrors and the destruction and desecration of over 140 churches since the arrival of the UN mission in this region, the shocking spectacles from the church of Christ the Savior, which has been turned into a public toilet, confirm that the eradication of Christianity and all Christian civilizational values in this region is being carried out with the silent, and frequently the active, acquiescence and participation of Albanian provisional institutions and their sponsors in the UN mission.
http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Policy/CI/kosovo-slike/images/Tan66403.jpg
Interior of the church of Christ the Savior in Pristina turned into a pubic toilette.

This is too much too swallow for any Christian, especially a Serb.

Centarfor9

10-21-2007, 06:08 AM

this should go to Politics (http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/forumdisplay.php?f=364) forum

Centarfor9

10-21-2007, 06:10 AM

Pape

10-21-2007, 06:24 AM

this is the politics forum...

Centarfor9

10-21-2007, 06:30 AM

^ now it is

Centarfor9

10-21-2007, 06:33 AM

Centarfor9

10-21-2007, 06:41 AM

you trying to say we with nazies and croats killed 800,0000 serbs and then made it possible for albanians to move in to serb holly land???

Sarajbahçe

10-21-2007, 10:49 AM

not another Political Thread..

ARBANITAI

10-21-2007, 02:53 PM

ARBANITAI

10-21-2007, 03:14 PM

Where was Serbia here? Can anyone tell me! Bacause I cant see it

for they like to lie that its their own!

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~klio/maps/rr/colonies.jpg

Ero

10-21-2007, 07:43 PM

karma...

Pape

10-21-2007, 11:17 PM

How many Kosovo-Albanian houses and building has Serbs burned down and destroyed ??
how many Albanian catholic churches and Mosques have serbs destroyed ?
how many Albanian innocent civilians have serbs killed and massacred for over centuries, during serbian occupation in Kosova ?

1. The name is Kosovo
2. Serbians can't occupy their own land.
3. The actions in 1999 were a reaction to the violence presented by your Albanian mafia torwards the Serb minority in Kosovo and torwards the Serbian Orthodox Church.
4. You celebrate that conflict as a victory for you so I can only wonder what you are complaining about. We had the same if not greater death toll as a result minus our infrastructure, thousands of homes, hundreds of churches.

how many Kosovo-Albanian were forced to flee away from kosovo during Serbian occupation, and over 1 million Albanians were forced to leave kosovo just in 1999 ! and how many more were killed in the war, and massacred by serbian terrorists and chetnics !!

the serbian butcher and dictator Milosevic was not the only serbian butcher, the whole serbian military forces in Kosovo were murderes, kidnappers, killers and butchers!!!

You were dealt what you were doing to us. Just like what you are doing in those photos above, burning churches, beating and killing children women and innocent men, burning their homes, and schools. You are lucky Serbia has even proposed peaceful solutions this time to deal with the issue, and all of these solutions you have denied, because you don't want a Kosovo you can't grow your marijuana and drugs on to fill europe.

they were so brave that they allways have to fight with the unarmed civilians women and children..

our children to this day have to be escorted by UN troops to school so you don't kill them, and pre 1999 they were not protected and they were killed

AND ALL IN THE LAST KOSOVO WAS NEVER SERBIAN, HISTORY TELLS THIS VERY WELL THAT SERBS ARE SLAVIC PPL WHO FIRST ARRIVED IN BALKAN IN THE EARLY 7TH CENTURY, WHILE ALBANIANS LIVED IN THE REGION AND KOSOVA FOR 4000 THOUSANDS YEARS !!!

so get alife now!

and understand that your an occupator in Kosova, ur invader also in balcans, ur home is north east of the carpaths..
and u still claim ILLYRIAN LAND !!!!!!!!!!!

You are Albanian, you are not Illyrian. You are a _______ piece of _____ whose dream is to occupy others land so you can produce and traffic drug throughout Europe. Illegal drugs are your only export and education is your smallest priority.

You are quite stupid as well. You are taking this time when most of Europe is starting to see who the Albanians really are and is starting to jump on the Serbian bandwagon. All of this shit you are doing to us right now, killing, beating, burning, is not okay with us and you do not have a form off defense to protect yourself from the consequences of these actions. Your lack of stuff in the head is committing yourselves suicide in Kosovo.

Fenerliyim

10-21-2007, 11:46 PM

aight if u cant discuss without insulting each other i'm gonna close the topic and hand out warnings

Centarfor9

10-22-2007, 12:13 AM

Serbs often use the propaganda to convey i.e. connect serbs to holocaust to try to explain the murderings and killing they have done and are still doing and are still preparing for Kosova as we speak

facts don't add up - because before Jasenovac Serbs were ethnically cleansing - killing, raping - forcefully converting bosniak populations - pilliging muslims, jews and others

serbs often try to involve bosniaks in the Jasenovac to justify their murderings and "extermination" (as they call it) of bosniaks (bosniaks have had nothing to do with Jasenovac except by thousands and thousands they were also killed there)

facts don't add up because - serbs were proud that they were the first to cleanse out Jews from their country and their city Belgrade - "fitst city in New Europe to be Judenfrei"

in Serbia at that time who every brought in a Jew would have been awarded money

Draza Mihailovic's chetnik killings of bosniaks during that time are still known throughout Europe

killings of muslims in montenegro, sanjak (sandzak), serbia are not forgotten (not because we are not forgeting them and will not forget it - but because those thousands and thousands of killed muslims are pride of chetniks and are well documanted by themselves - going from the way of killings, tactics, and way of making sure muslims are destroyed)

How many Kosovo-Albanian houses and building has Serbs burned down and destroyed ??

how many Albanian catholic churches and Mosques have serbs destroyed ?
how many Albanian innocent civilians have serbs killed and massacred for over centuries, during serbian occupation in Kosova ?

how many Kosovo-Albanian were forced to flee away from kosovo during Serbian occupation, and over 1 million Albanians were forced to leave kosovo just in 1999 ! and how many more were killed in the war, and massacred by serbian terrorists and chetnics !!

the serbian butcher and dictator Milosevic was not the only serbian butcher, the whole serbian military forces in Kosovo were murderes, kidnappers, killers and butchers!!!

they were so brave that they allways have to fight with the unarmed civilians women and children..
:sad: true

World saw what was being prepared for Kosova and stopped in and prevented another Bosnia to happen

Saraj Fanático

10-22-2007, 01:37 AM

I guess what goes around comes around. Serbs have brought so much blood spill to the Balkans these last 16 years (Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia and Kosovo) all resulting in exactly what you are complaining about in this thread.

The Bosnian Muslims were under the command of Karl-Gustav Sauberzweig and belonged to the SS Handzar division. Which made up less then 15 thousand soldiers. I dunno how anyone can say Handzar contributed so much to crimes against Serbs. It was mostly Croats.

Kosovo was basically turned into a huge concentration camp during Milosevic's reign and now when everything seems to be falling apart, some still have the guts to call it their Holy land. What a way to honor that land.

PS: Some use the excuse that Milosevic did what he did because of Albanian based mobs beating Serbs but that excuse makes no sense whatsoever. Killing over 10 thousand civilians in Kosovo is no sane way to retaliate and its no excuse.

Pape

10-22-2007, 02:08 AM

2500 deaths in Kosovo in 1999, if you call the KLA citizens of Kosovo go ahead

I expect nothing more from extreme Muslims than to come to Albanians defense and go against everything Serb.

I am saying in this thread, that Albanians are enjoying and think it is fun to destroy and burn down and kill everything Serb. Fine.

Serbia's military today is classified as a first class modern military, the only one in the Balkans along with Greece. They have shown their will to cleanse us in the region and I am sure the day will come when we will show our love for them.

Serbs have brought much blood spill to the Balkans in the last 16 years, but it is not even close to what Muslim forces have done to us in the last 500 years.

To think today that you can take away the most sacred part of Serbia and convert it into drug farm land with a bunch of mosques everywhere is the thought of a fool. This is not Afghanistan and it is the should be the shame of Christian Europe for supporting the people who have all the wrong will against them.

Centarfor9

10-22-2007, 02:13 AM

this is a christian muslim thing now?

you want to compare murders christians have done to ones of muslims???

Pape

10-22-2007, 02:44 AM

Pape

10-22-2007, 02:52 AM

Here you have it. Your biggest ally has just left you :lol: , I'm sorry to say but this is almost becomming a joke.

U.S. pins Kosovo force on NATO's Afghan commitment By Kristin Roberts
Sun Oct 21, 10:10 AM ET

KIEV (Reuters) - U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates will consider shifting U.S. troops from Kosovo to Afghanistan next year if NATO allies do not fulfill their commitments, U.S. government officials said.

Gates, in Ukraine on Sunday to ask eastern European countries for help in the war, had first considered laying the threat before NATO defense ministers this week at a meeting in the Netherlands, senior U.S. officials said.

But upon the advice of senior military officers, the Pentagon chief has extended the U.S. commitment to Kosovo to summer 2008. If NATO allies have not sent more troops, trainers and equipment to Afghanistan by then, Washington will consider pulling its 1,600 troops out of NATO's Kosovo force KFOR.

"The secretary had wrestled with the idea of moving our forces in Kosovo to Afghanistan but decided late this week to extend our KFOR presence until next summer," Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell said.

"But beyond that is very much up in the air. The secretary is disappointed in NATO's inability to live up to its commitments and if that doesn't change before then, he's prepared to go to the secretary of state and to the president to discuss yanking our troops out of Kosovo," Morrell said.

Gates has grown increasingly frustrated by the failure of NATO allies to fulfill promises they made more than a year ago to provide troops and equipment to the war in Afghanistan.

The secretary is particularly worried about a shortfall of more than 3,000 trainers for Afghan forces, but commanders also need more combat forces, helicopters and other equipment.

By pinning the U.S. commitment in Kosovo to Europe's commitment in Afghanistan, Gates wants to signal that Europe will be left alone to deal with a still unsteady situation in its own backyard if it does not help the United States in Afghanistan, said officials familiar with the discussions.

NATO took responsibility last year for operations throughout Afghanistan. The United States contributes the most troops in the coalition -- or about 15,000 of a NATO force totaling just under 40,000. Washington also added combat troops and a helicopter force last year after other allies did not respond to a call for help from commanders.

Despite six years of war in Afghanistan, a fight overshadowed in the United States by Iraq, violence has soared in 2007. Taliban suicide bombings are up 50 percent from a year ago and military officers say the group is trying to import the deadly roadside bomb technology that has been used in Iraq.

In Kiev, Gates will ask Ukraine and other members of the Southeast Europe Defense Ministerial to send troops to Afghanistan to help cover that shortfall in trainers, another U.S. defense official said.

The 11-member group sent a 100-troop brigade, called Southeast Europe Brigade or SEEBRIG, to the war zone in 2006.

"It's to have a discussion about SEEBRIG and how SEEBRIG can potentially help in Afghanistan again possibly by undertaking a training mission," the official said when asked about Gates's priorities in Kiev.

Ukraine, which received $11.7 million in U.S. military assistance this year, is considered a strong U.S. partner in Iraq and the Pentagon thinks Kiev might send troops to Afghanistan as well.

Centarfor9

10-22-2007, 03:10 AM

Well you and that fanatic Saraj have come here to bash Serbs and express your love for our suffering. I need not remind you that what you want to call your own country of Bosnia was named by a Serb, and was originally one of the Serb kingdoms. You have the Serbs to thank for that mistake, it worked out in your favor.
:lol:

nonsense

But if you want to go on the case of the topic. No this is not a christian vs muslim thing, it is a Serb vs Albanian thing. But we all know that this is a christian muslim, because every muslim nation and terrorist group has come to aid of the Albanians, and only about 50% of Christians have come to our side.
Oh it's not

this post you posted makes it 100% that it is muslim vs. christian thing ;)

2500 deaths in Kosovo in 1999, if you call the KLA citizens of Kosovo go ahead

I expect nothing more from extreme Muslims than to come to Albanians defense and go against everything Serb.

I am saying in this thread, that Albanians are enjoying and think it is fun to destroy and burn down and kill everything Serb. Fine.

Serbia's military today is classified as a first class modern military, the only one in the Balkans along with Greece. They have shown their will to cleanse us in the region and I am sure the day will come when we will show our love for them.

Serbs have brought much blood spill to the Balkans in the last 16 years, but it is not even close to what Muslim forces have done to us in the last 500 years.

To think today that you can take away the most sacred part of Serbia and convert it into drug farm land with a bunch of mosques everywhere is the thought of a fool. This is not Afghanistan and it is the should be the shame of Christian Europe for supporting the people who have all the wrong will against them.

None the less, Albanians themselves are a tool for Europe. Their strongest and you can argue one of the only real supporters for independce Germany, set aside USA, has become the one of the top 2 suppliers of arms to Serbia in the last few years along with Russia.
the Kosova conflict was started when chetniks wanted to ethnically cleanse muslims,catholic albanians from their homes and started killing people at will

world stepped in and prevented genocide and ethnic cleansing that happened in Bosnia on the hands of chetniks

lets not forget that serbs before the 1990s were famous for their ethinic cleansings throught the time

You guys now go ahead and flame away all you want.
this is not a "flame" - i'm simply questioning your propaganda

This thread was created more for the Christian community here than the Muslim community,
i'm an agnostic

but i still object to the lies that are spread about my people

I already know your opinion and therefore.
Are you sure? i haven't stated my opinions :rolleyes:

Your Muslim friends in Kosovo have a opportunity to deal with a issue peacefully,
yeah they had to chose 'slavery' or 'death' like so many bosniaks

but world stepped in and prevented the inhumanity

now i'm not saying there are albanians are saints but they knew the faith chetniks planned for them

Their consequences will be ready to be handed to them on December 10th when their decision arrives. And if they make the wrong decision, in a few months after that you will be comming here making threads about how they need to catch some Serb war criminals for the Hague.
that's not the definition of diplomacy they teach in schools??? i hope not

we would already have to make more than 25,000 threads for every war criminal

Centarfor9

10-22-2007, 03:13 AM

Here you have it. Your biggest ally has just left you :lol: , I'm sorry to say but this is almost becomming a joke.
Kosovo will not be independant without support of the UN - Russia will not support that and there you go

No idependance

but you have countries like Germany, Italy, Albania, Croatia etc that would support the independance of Kosovo right away

Pape

10-22-2007, 03:47 AM

Actually Italy, Spain, Romania, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Greece, and Cyprus are the top European nations with strong oppositions to Kosovo independence.

And England, France, and Germany are the sided powers with the USA.

Centarfor9

10-22-2007, 03:48 AM

i'm surprised that Italy would be one who would oposse it

Fenerliyim

10-22-2007, 03:49 AM

Pape i dont call people barbarians or pieces of scum like u did. I just said watch the insults, other than that u guys can go on with ur rants

Pape

10-22-2007, 03:49 AM

whys that? they like cheap weed in italy ? :lol:

Fener- sorry about that, I can sometimes forget the rules of the forum and become expressive with my opinions, feel free and hand me the correct warning for that post and I'll take that part out of the post

Centarfor9

10-22-2007, 04:18 AM

i was googoling stuff

came across this interview given by Condoleezza Rice

interesting stuff

Interview With the Reuters Editorial Board

Secretary Condoleezza Rice
Waldorf-Astoria
New York, New York
September 24, 2007

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2007/09/92665.htm

...

QUESTION: Kosovo is one of the looming crises between now and the end of the year. Is the United States considering unilaterally recognizing Kosovo as independent if no broader agreement is reached in the Security Council this year?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, the United States is certainly committed to the logic of the Ahtisaari plan. And the logic of the Ahtisarri plan is that there isn't going to be a reunification of Serbia and Kosovo, and that both Kosovo and Serbia need to get on with their futures and leave behind their past.

We have committed to 120 days to see if the circumstances, the atmosphere, even some of the actual moves that the two sides could make, could make it a more amicable outcome. But in the final analysis, you know, the President was very clear when he was in Albania that there is going to be an independent Kosovo. Now, the question of how we get there, who else - I do believe the Europeans are in the same posture. How we get there, I think, is what's still to be determined. But there's going to be an independent Kosovo. We're dedicated to that. I think it's the only potential - the only solution that is potentially stabilizing for the Balkans rather than destabilizing for the Balkans.

QUESTION: Some of the diplomats involved say that the problem is that the Kosovars and the Serbs have no real incentive to negotiate seriously because they count on the Russians to veto a resolution and the Kosovars have no incentive because they can count on the United States to recognize UDI. What's your response to that?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, frankly, I was concerned about the same thing. Now, we've told the Kosovars that we don't think that a unilateral declaration of independence is a very good idea and so we need to go through this process.

I've been pleasantly surprised, as somebody who is fairly skeptical about what could be achieved, that I do think they're making some progress. Not that the Serbs and the Kosovars have - are suddenly going to come to the same understanding of what the final status will look like, but they are making, I think, some progress on some of the other issues that could lead to a more amicable and sustainable outcome at the end of this. And as I said, there's been good feeling about the cooperation between the EU, Russia and the United States.

QUESTION: Do you feel at the end of the process it will - you'll be prepared to let the European Union, as it were, take the lead in determining the final status, or do you think it's going to take American leadership to get the Europeans there?

SECRETARY RICE: Oh, I think it'll take the United States and Europe together on this one and when I talk to the Europeans, they all say, you know, we know that Europe - the Europeans say about themselves that they know that ultimately, the Balkans is, of course, much closer to Europe than to the United States and they need a stable Balkans so they're going to have to do - they're going to have to take the tough decisions and do the right thing.

We want very much to have good relations with Serbia and for Serbia to find its European home, but it's going to be difficult for Serbia to find a European home if it holds on to - you know, to old hopes. It's really time for everybody to move forward.

I've heard good things, frankly, about the meetings that have been going on, good things about the coordination and work that Russia, the EU and the United States are doing together in the troika. There are new ideas on the table, not about the actual status but about some of the tools and mechanisms that might be used to make relations between Serbia and Kosovo smoother. The Kosovars could do more, and we're pressing them to do more, to assure everyone that they really are going to live up to the other logic of the Ahtisaari plan, which is that this has to be a state that is completely devoted to minority rights, religious protections and so forth.

boris4c

10-22-2007, 04:50 AM

Centarfor9

10-22-2007, 04:53 AM

^ hehe i forgot that was Hecuran lol

this is what French president thinks

(from his inteview with NYT :: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/world/europe/24excerpts.html?pagewanted=5&_r=3)

...
It’s in our interest that in Kosovo the Albanians and the Serbs refrain from killing each other, because this is Europe, because it’s the Balkans, and because everyone must understand that it’s Europe’s business. France is inclined to be concerned about all these situations because France has a message for the world.

If you’ll allow me to continue with Kosovo, when we’re talking about Kosovo it seems very likely that Russia will stick by its decision to veto any United Nations Security Council (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/s/security_council/index.html?inline=nyt-org) resolution. The United States regards this issue as a test of the European Union’s determination with respect to Moscow. Is Europe ready to see Moscow dictate it its foreign policy or is it going to endorse the decision?

First, Kosovo’s independence is inevitable in the long term. Second, that Russia should want to regain its full place seems to me legitimate, and even desirable. Third, France wants excellent relations with Russia, but Russia cannot expect the rights of a big power without taking on the duties. Fourth, on the question of Kosovo, Europe has to remain united. It is all together that we must in the end back independence for Kosovo. And if I’ve said it is not a question of months or weeks, it’s because I wanted to preserve that unity. And Mr. [Vladimir V.] Putin (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/vladimir_v_putin/index.html?inline=nyt-per) [President of Russia] must understand that no one wants to humiliate him, that everyone understands efforts he is making to restore Russia to its standing, and no one can criticize him for this. But at the same time he must understand that his interlocutors have convictions every bit as much as he does, regarding human rights, respect for minorities, the rule of law, and democracy. It is called a frank dialogue.

Q. Is that what you had with him at [the G8 summit in] Heiligendamm [Germany, in June]?
A. Exactly. Just that. I found the talks with him very interesting. He told me his side of the truth frankly. I answered with equal frankness. I believe in Russia’s role. Russia is a great power. But no great power can exempt itself from its duties.

Q. You even spoke, used the term ‘a certain brutality’ on the international scene. That’s rather strong language.
A. It wasn’t intended to be strong. It was intended to be clear...
...

boris4c

10-22-2007, 05:09 AM

Well, if Sarkozy can be quoted here then anybody can :)

Titov: Ako Srbija neće, i Rusija odbija
Nedelja, 21. oktobar 2007. 23:35

Zamenik ministra spoljnih poslova Rusije Vladimir Titov rekao je u nedelju u Beogradu da će Rusija prihvatiti samo ono rešenje za Kosovo koje zadovolji Srbiju.

Translation: If Serbia refuses, Russia does too.

Why does everybody think Russia can't oppose itself to America's ideas?! Should the American Empire continue to control the rest of the world like puppets? All the great emperors (Napoleon, Hitler, Bush) were/will be stopped in Russia. There was one time when we thought Rome would never fall :)

Pao je Rim, pala je Vizantija, pasce i Tiranija koja navija da se stvori Velika Albanija.

And here is a little message from the Albanian prime minister:

Beriša: Kosovo da odustane od jednostranih akcija

Very well said by mister the Albanian prime minister. Serbia is the only one looking for a compromise while the Kosovo Albanians are blindly pushing the same thing since the beginning of the "talks".

Has anyone else read the Kosovo 14 points proposed by the Trojka?

Pape

10-22-2007, 05:32 AM

If it were not for a idiot called Boris Yeltsin the world as we know it today, formed by the US in the last 15 years would not be where it is at. I truely think that a great wise Russian power is almost necessary to keep the world from being spun out of control by the US, who never feels they are wrong and never thinks once or twice about their decisions. If its the USA way its the right way :-/

Anyways Vladimir Putin is the man for bringing Russia back to their feet.

Centarfor9

10-22-2007, 05:32 AM

boris4c

10-22-2007, 05:35 AM

haha :)

Centarfor9

10-22-2007, 05:35 AM

Anyways Vladimir Putin is the man for bringing Russia back to their feet.
he is the new czar :sad:

Centarfor9

10-22-2007, 05:53 AM

Oh btw

Serbia - Kosovo = War (http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=57197)

Kosovo was never part of Serbia.

ARBANITAI

10-22-2007, 07:17 PM

Please Hecuran, all history books (except yours) are starting to realize and prove that Albanians are not direct descendants of Illyrians.

I don't see Serbia on your map, I don't see Italy or Albania either. :lol:

Wrong! actually the opposite of that what you said, many more historians and books were writen only in the 21th century prooving 100% that Albanians are direct descendants of Illyrians, Illyrian language was todays Albanian language, thats why Albanian language is so unique today in indo-europeans languages, and is not simmilar to anyother one.

second: Albanian traditional costume, culture, heritage, music and tradition is another proof they found out we are ILLYRIANS!!

and third: ur the one who doesnt have any facts of what u say, ur only runing ur mouth like that without a shit knowing!

and u saw very good the map, that is greatest Proof that Kosovo and the region was ALBANIAN/ILLYRIAN!!!! it is not our map, but an international map!

(btw "Hecuran" isnt my name, yes it was my old "username")

ARBANITAI

10-22-2007, 07:20 PM

Oh btw

Kosovo was never part of Serbia.

Of course it was not! who is that dumbass that dare make such statment that Kosova ever was serbian !!

Kosova historically was Illyrian/Albanian DC´5000 years ago, and will still continue to be !

the serbian invaders, who arrived in balcans only in the 7th century, are trying to claim something that did never belonged to them in anyway!

Saraj Fanático

10-22-2007, 07:57 PM

2500 deaths in Kosovo in 1999, if you call the KLA citizens of Kosovo go ahead

Actually as things stand now, the death toll in Kosovo is between 7,500-14,000.

I expect nothing more from extreme Muslims than to come to Albanians defense and go against everything Serb.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: EXTREME MUSLIM.

I am saying in this thread, that Albanians are enjoying and think it is fun to destroy and burn down and kill everything Serb. Fine.

Serbia's military today is classified as a first class modern military, the only one in the Balkans along with Greece. They have shown their will to cleanse us in the region and I am sure the day will come when we will show our love for them.

:lol: Sure, if you don't consider Turkey (Strongest Muslim Nation), NATO Slovenia not a part of the Balkans. Actually I want to see a source that backs this claim..

Serbs have brought much blood spill to the Balkans in the last 16 years, but it is not even close to what Muslim forces have done to us in the last 500 years.

Yeah and we had fun under the Hungarian Empire?

To think today that you can take away the most sacred part of Serbia and convert it into drug farm land with a bunch of mosques everywhere is the thought of a fool. This is not Afghanistan and it is the should be the shame of Christian Europe for supporting the people who have all the wrong will against them.

Christian Europe has given you so many chances of cleansing us all out. Europe backs Serbia still. No disrespect but I think Serbs are bitching for nothing. Europe could have done so much to completly destroy and set back your nation more then 100 years. They could have awarded Bosnia-Herz. with the suit against you. If that was the case your nation would be 0. They could be sanctioning you at this moment for the failure of capturing war criminals. Also, "Christian Europe" spared so much Serb blood you don't even have a clue. So please.

Problem now is that Europe did all these things for you but you failed them. You embarrassed Europe with the massacres allowed in Kosovo and Srebrenica and many other places. You have caused Holland, Greece and other nations to be brought into a mess. Europe gave Serbs (Cetniks actually, not right calling them Serbs), enough time to wipe out the Muslim race off the Balkans and set the stage for creating a Greater Serbia. You however, as expected failed.

Saraj Fanático

10-22-2007, 08:13 PM

boris4c

10-22-2007, 10:55 PM

Wrong! actually the opposite of that what you said, many more historians and books were writen only in the 21th century prooving 100% that Albanians are direct descendants of Illyrians, Illyrian language was todays Albanian language, thats why Albanian language is so unique today in indo-europeans languages, and is not simmilar to anyother one.

second: Albanian traditional costume, culture, heritage, music and tradition is another proof they found out we are ILLYRIANS!!

and third: ur the one who doesnt have any facts of what u say, ur only runing ur mouth like that without a shit knowing!

and u saw very good the map, that is greatest Proof that Kosovo and the region was ALBANIAN/ILLYRIAN!!!! it is not our map, but an international map!

(btw "Hecuran" isnt my name, yes it was my old "username")
The Albanians and Illyrians are not and have never been the same nation. While the former are late intruders in Europe who came from Asia, the later were the original western neighbors of the Macedonians since ancient times. The Illyrians and Macedonians were two distinct and separate nations who spoke two different languages and could communicate only though translators (Polybius).

While the Illyrians were under Macedonian occupation, the Albanians lived in Asia on the Caucaus since the most ancient times. All ancient historians call their historical homeland Albania and they are also called Albanians in the ancient sources (Justin, Polybius, Strabo, Ptolemy, etc). There is NO connection whatsoever between these Albanians and the Illyrians who had lived in Europe separated by hundreds of miles.

Albanian is classified as an non-IE (Indo-European) language because no one has been able to classify it into any group, and this is because no one has yet studied all the Caucasian languages. As soon as linguists begin to study the Caucasians languages they will realize the similarities with Albanian. Albanian might have IE sounding words, but its basic structure and syntax are more similar to Chechen and Udish than to any IE language. Many Albanian words do sound Indo- European, because Albanian has borrowed over 80% of its vocabulary, more than any other European language.

The Chechen language is strikingly similar to Albanian. They both have similar grammar and similar sounds such as SQ, PSHQ, which are not common in any IE languages, but are very common in caucusus languages like Chechenian.

The fact is that Albanians originally came from Albania, the province near Caspian Sea; South Dagestan and Azerbaijan. They were there in I b.c.e. under their originally name Shquips (The Albanians). Anyway during that time The REAL Illyrians were the citizens of The West Balkan (Dinaria) and occupied by The Romans. During that time Albanians was in their native hole. Bear in mind that in 6.-9.c.e. we still have Illyrians and their Resistance to Romans. Where are the Albanians? THE MOST SAD is that this myth of Albanian origin were promoted by stupid Yugoslav communists because The State policy of Yugoslavia, made by Josip Broz Tito, were brothers with Albanians, so that Yugoslavia could get Albania as the 7th republic.

Albanians are total foreigners to the Balkans and indeed to Europe and that their claims to being Illyrians are baseless and based only on assumption.

Panathinaikos2

10-22-2007, 11:13 PM

And if they make the wrong decision, in a few months after that you will be comming here making threads about how they need to catch some Serb war criminals for the Hague.:D

Sarajbahçe

10-22-2007, 11:14 PM

Kosova is and always will be on its own and will never be controlled by serbs
and we are not here bashing you guys in this thread.. its just the truth, wake up and realize that RS will split up soon and that Kosova will never be serbian land
serbs have a great imagination!

Pape

10-23-2007, 01:17 AM

Centarfor9

10-23-2007, 01:52 AM

Ado the Seljak.
pape no need for insults - i don't see anybody calling you names

Lesson Number 1

Bosnia was formed as a Serb Kingdom by Serb peoples so it is quite embarassing that you are opening your mouth in this thread.
Bosnia existed long time than Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes ;)

Lesson Number 2

RS will be a part of Serbia before it splits up.
:lol: (this is sincerly funny)

this is nothing but a dream (or a joke)

p.s. put the TV on

(RS exists only as an entity of BiH)

Lesson Number 4

Kosovo is a part of Serbia right now.
damn Pape when you gonna start a thread about something you should at least know the basics

Kosovo was never part of Serbia

in 99 Slobodan Milosevic and his government tried to make it so Kosovo and Vojvodina is part of the Serbia but his move had no political or other impact other than he, his party and his government proclaimed that Kosovo is part of Serbia (kosovo has been under the "administration of UN since that moment [1999])

Kosovo was always independant i.e. Autonomous Region of Kosovo i.e. Autonomna Pokrajina

in 1989 Slobodan Milosevic did suceed to take some autonomy from it but still that reagion was an "Autonomus" region

Pape

10-23-2007, 02:14 AM

In that case, case closed, go tell the albos they are already independent and they should quit bothering Serbia with such questions.

:lol:(this is sincerly funny)

this is nothing but a dream (or a joke)

p.s. put the TV on

(RS exists only as an entity of BiH)

You watch too much tv and have too much time to learn so much from BU on this forum.

Whose to say that RS doesn't declare independence with backing from world powers tommorow? There isn't much in BiH to defend that decison accept maybe another "promise" to BiH from President George W Bush.

And BTW I have never seen the Bosniak crowd in this forum loving the ideology of President Bush and agreeing him this much before. Maybe you guys should go bomb Iran together.

Centarfor9

10-23-2007, 02:31 AM

In that case, case closed, go tell the albos they are already independent and they should quit bothering Serbia with such questions.
they can't be independant in the style they want it also - they can be independant within the federation of Serbia

You watch too much tv and have too much time to learn so much from BU on this forum.
who? read newspapers (NYT, Washington Post, The Economist etc - it doesn't have to be TV - just stay current with the decisions and what's happening - i do it everyday i.e. stay informed - also i watch RTS or interviews from RS TV, BHT1, FTV given by political leaders like Dodik, Komsic, etc etc)

BU? (Bosnian Unit?) i have told him we can discuss politics any time he wants he can just ask in the Bosnia Politics thread - otherwise i won't discuss it anywhere else)

but he seems uninformed also

Whose to say that RS doesn't declare independence with backing from world powers tommorow? There isn't much in BiH to defend that decison accept maybe another "promise" to BiH from President George W Bush.
Pape :tsk:

i know you feel betrayed by this Kosovo situation and are just saying random stuff but trust me BiH is not going anywhere

p.s. the biggest concern i have about BiH is will Croatia build that bridge over our sea and cut us off from the world sea - all three presidents agree on this and will fight it :D

And BTW I have never seen the Bosniak crowd in this forum loving the ideology of President Bush and agreeing him this much before. Maybe you guys should go bomb Iran together.
President Bush is a friend of Blair (Labor Party:)) and i have no problem with him - but he needs to be nice to Ahmadinejad and the Great Nation of Iran

and join the party :)
http://english.safe-democracy.org/images/castro%20y%20chávez.jpg

Pape

10-23-2007, 02:48 AM

Centarfor9

10-23-2007, 03:18 AM

Don't get me wrong, I don't want any turmoil in Bosnia nor do I care about what happens in BiH. I do care but I don't care politically and personally I love all of my Bosniak friends and I have nothing against Islam, as my best friend is Muslim and goes to mosque, but its easy to push the wrong buttons with these issues and step overline.

We all know that none of us knows what goes on in the head of Serbs and Bosniaks, but at the same time we know its a bunch of same ideology with different directions.
i see changes gappening - but they are slow but the main fact is BiH is getting stronger and stronger - i hope people realise that they can't vote for the parties with 'old ideologies' but for the parties for progress - i think they will vote differently next time around

And it's quite natural for Bosniaks to come to this thread and find joy in picking on Serbs
nobody is picking on you - there are two sides in each story as they say

but when you make thread ;; with one sided accusations which are thrown so carelessly, with lack of understanding of simple background, omitting of the other sides suffernings and point of view - sure questions are asked and people will ask you to clarify things (like I have asked you to do couple of times in this thread)

as I wouldn't expect either side would be finding logical agreements to any issues, as everybodies decisions are driven by hate torwards another group.
i expect it and i see it happening (here and everywhere else) - but people get fueled with emotions and disregard rationality and reason - wanting to do it the good old way - the easy way

'team america' (movie) comes to mind here (we can do it the hard way (dialogue) or the easy way (bomb the crap out of anybody we disagree with))

And quite naturally that pisses me quite off when it doesn't work in my favor, and it naturally goes to you the same way.
i don't get pissed if it doesn't go my way - i get pissed at myself when i don't do it the right way or do it the wrong way

it's very easy to swear or disregard what other people have to say but it gets us nowhere

now if one doesn't care about the right way or the wrong way (hard or easy way) then i can understand that the object is reaching that goal and that not getting it will cause dissatifaction

------------------------------------
nobody is perfect - we (people) create a perfect being capable of perfection and all his/her/it decisions/commands are perfect and we (people - the imperfect beings) try to convey the perfect message (message from our perfect thing/being) but since we are imperfect we are unable to do that and even don't follow what that perfect vision or that perfect being we think wants us to do

so there is no human being on earth that can say the perfect things that will stand as perfect and infallible and thus unchallanged

dialogue is needed

Toke-E-Yo

10-23-2007, 03:23 AM

Shit Happens In War.

Innocent People Die.

Millions In The Past Have Died.

Millions Still Will Die.

There Is No Right Or Wrong In War.

The Best We Can Do Is To Make Sure It Doesn't Happen Again.

boris4c

10-23-2007, 03:39 AM

Shit Happens In War.

Innocent People Die.

Millions In The Past Have Died.

Millions Still Will Die.

There Is No Right Or Wrong In War.

The Best We Can Do Is To Make Sure It Doesn't Happen Again.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Sarajbahçe

10-23-2007, 04:01 AM

Ado the Seljak.

RS is not a part of this thread so quit talking.

Lesson Number 1

Bosnia was formed as a Serb Kingdom by Serb peoples so it is quite embarassing that you are opening your mouth in this thread.

Lesson Number 2

RS will be a part of Serbia before it splits up.

Lesson Number 3

The name is Kosovo unless you are completely confused and don't know where you come from history and time, oh wait you are confused nvm.

Lesson Number 4

Kosovo is a part of Serbia right now.

ado the seljak??? you are the one trying to get kosova when you know you cant, you ***king switch teams like you switch your socks.. and you are calling me seljak.. ***king fruitcake!
i dont give a shit if Bosna was formed by Martians for all i know.. All i know is that BiH is not any of Serbia's concern today and Turkey colonized us and converted us to their way of life!
RS will never split up from BiH
and Kosova will never be Serbian land so dont get ahead of yourself
close this thread.. because the serbs are crying for "their land" which will never happen.. especially after the genocide!
all i have heard is serbs crying for their land but yet have done nothing about it and last time i checked.. Kosova is moving further and further away from Serbia and slowly getting their independence!

SO CRY ME A RIVER!
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA!!

Pape

10-23-2007, 04:11 AM

Wabbit

10-23-2007, 04:12 AM

Does any of u ppl is in a country thats in the middle of a war atm???....Im too lazy to read all....so....Im just asking straightly.......w/e it means

Centarfor9

10-23-2007, 04:21 AM

Because we can run over the whole Kosovo and Albania in under a week.
not sure that is the best option

and if they have an army i really doubt that

@ Ado Dude you are way too young to post in serious threads like this. (no joke or anything) - i expect you to take this advice and keep your mouth shut about things you are totally clueless

Sarajbahçe

10-23-2007, 04:22 AM

LOL! its Kosovo for the 100th time, I told you they are provocating for a war, destroying our churches, homes, and forcing our people out. When they get massacred don't call it a genocide call it a war. Because we can run over the whole Kosovo and Albania in under a week.

in that case, quote yourself and we will come back to this in 3 months

yeah im sure.. in under a week
when you guys attacked Bosna (even though we were not ready one bit and didnt have any weapons whats so ever) still couldnt take us in a week
so you think you could take them both... lol clever of you
Pape.. all sides have their reasons of fighting in the war
you cant expect someone not to fight back and do the same to your people after serbs have done that to ours
how many people in Kosova and lost their lives?
and then when a serbian family gets killed.. then its the worst crime in the world
serbs have mental issues i swear, they only think that serbs are the most dominant human beings in the world and that everyone else should die for their own sake..
when going into a political thread.. learn both sides of the argument
you cant just say how they burned your churches, killed your people and so on.. you guys did much worse to us than we did to you!

Sarajbahçe

10-23-2007, 04:24 AM

not sure that is the best option

and if they have an army i really doubt that

@ Ado Dude you are way too young to post in serious threads like this. (no joke or anything) - i expect you to take this advice and keep your mouth shut about things you are totally clueless

serious thread my ass
this guy provokes me and then gets away with it
well ***k you all then!

Wabbit

10-23-2007, 04:25 AM

Haha chill man, chill.........

Sema

10-23-2007, 04:28 AM

What a funny thread, :). Specialy Ado.

Centarfor9

10-23-2007, 04:31 AM

serious thread my ass
this guy provokes me and then gets away with it
well ***k you all then!
you sure were provoked and he did get away with it (it seems) but you don't have to respond in the same manner

Wabbit

10-23-2007, 04:36 AM

Make the difference dude...........always! ;)

:lol:

Pape

10-23-2007, 04:41 AM

Ado take Sinters advice. You obviously don't know much about the war in Bosnia from the military perspective. The Serbs made 2 actual military offensives in that war in which resulted in total devistations of the areas they roamed through.

The little Arkan battles you have heard of are not anything of any military capabilities and are just cowerdly attacks which contributed to most deaths in Bosnia.

And as I mentioned before Serbia and Greece just about have the only modern army in the region. Serbia produces alot of its own arms which of whom is actually used by most of the private American contractors in Iraq and the Iraqi army. Besides from that, theres alot of equipment that Serbia receives from Russia

and

as I mentioned before GERMANY has become one of the top 2 suppliers of ARMS to Serbia in the last few years. Oddly enough they are about the top European power trying to rush Kosovo into declaring Independence and as we saw again this morning they are eager not to extend the timeline for the peace talks.

Centarfor9

10-23-2007, 04:54 AM

Ado take Sinters advice. You obviously don't know much about the war in Bosnia from the military perspective.
i didn't say he should take advice on that - you know that but yet you chose to go ahead with it (it being your this comment i quoted) ;)

i was refering about Kosovo and his responses to your provocations and namecalling - when i said he shouldn't respond

The Serbs made 2 actual military offensives in that war in which resulted in total devistations of the areas they roamed through.

The little Arkan battles you have heard of are not anything of any military capabilities and are just cowerdly attacks which contributed to most deaths in Bosnia.
all those were against civilians

in 1995 we together with Croats would have ended up in Serbia in no more than 10 days - not sure are you familiar with the situation right before the Dayton and what finally forced Serbs to realize that they are fighting a war they can't win (that is when armies go against armies they can't win)

you are way overestimating the capabilities of Serbian Army and underestimating ones of your enemies (at this time the albanians)

Pape

10-23-2007, 05:03 AM

Sinter I have to quote you.

the Dayton and what finally forced Serbs to realize that they are fighting a war they can't win (that is when armies go against armies they can't win)

utterly silly, you obviously lack knowledge about military tactics and and you yourself are the one underestimating the capabilities of the Serbian army

all those were against civilians

the equivilent of a American comming up to me and telling me that the United States are the greatest soccer nation in the world

enough said

in 1995 we together with Croats would have ended up in Serbia in no more than 10 days - not sure are you familiar with the situation right before the Dayton and what finally forced Serbs to realize that they are fighting a war they can't win (that is when armies go against armies they can't win)

lol? by boarding up on a ship off the coast off Croatia and sailing down to Montenegro? I'm not sure that trip would take THAT long

seriously enough with the coffee table talk pretty soon Ado will be able to start advising you

Centarfor9

10-23-2007, 05:11 AM

utterly silly, you obviously lack knowledge about military tactics and and you yourself are the one underestimating the capabilities of the Serbian army
not really - nope

(given that i don't agree with your estimates of 'how long' would it take for Serbian Army to 'roll' through Albania or Albanians (if they have an army - which i assume they do) - in fact it wouldn't happen at all)

the equivilent of a American comming up to me and telling me that the United States are the greatest soccer nation in the world

enough said
so i now have to prove how United States is a greatest soccer nation in the world to prove that my comment is correct? lol lol

lol? by boarding up on a ship off the coast off Croatia and sailing down to Montenegro? I'm not sure that trip would take THAT long
i'm sure that was a possibility but it wasn't used that extensively although croats have liberated their entire coastline up to Montenegro

seriously enough with the coffee table talk pretty soon Ado will be able to start advising you
we all hope

Nit

10-23-2007, 05:14 AM

What a funny thread, :). Specialy Ado.
best quote here..
i have many opinions to state..but wont for the sake of being nice

Pape

10-23-2007, 05:48 AM

i'm done posting in here

make peace, than make love, dont make war

http://www.sfgate.com/traveler/postcards/haight-hippie.jpg

Saraj Fanático

10-23-2007, 08:28 PM

utterly silly, you obviously lack knowledge about military tactics and and you yourself are the one underestimating the capabilities of the Serbian army

No offense but the Serbian army wouldn't be able to cope with Nato and Albania backing Kosovo if it does indeed come down to a possible second push into Kosovo. Whatever Europe decides will be final and the Serb military cannot change the situation at all, except end up destroying itself. So I think its pretty logic stuff.

lol? by boarding up on a ship off the coast off Croatia and sailing down to Montenegro? I'm not sure that trip would take THAT long

seriously enough with the coffee table talk pretty soon Ado will be able to start advising you

I dunno what Sinter is talking about when mentioning Bosnian Forces and Croat forces linking up in Serbia but there was an operation that I think Sinter is referring to. Operation Storm (Operacija Oluja) which was a conjunction of Croat forces and ARBiH that resulted of the destruction of Republic of Serbian Krajina. Soon after that ArBiH launched attacks from Bihac to the West, Operation Sana which was launched by Atif Dudakovic. The aim was to take the cities of Sanski Most and Prijedor and use it to stage an final attack on Banja Luka resulting in the end of RS. However Dudakovic was only able to liberate Sanski Most and was told to stop until agreements were reached. The Sanski Most take over is what pretty much forced the war to end. Even though the Serbian military wasn't involved but the RS had all their equipment and still failed to stop HV and ARBiH forces. So it doesn't make many good impressions. Anyhow I don't think HV and ArBiH would have attacked Serbia because both sides just fought for survival of their homeland. They say 'A person who fights for freedom will always be a giant even to the biggest of armies that seek only power and control'. More motivation.

poutismalakas

10-24-2007, 02:11 AM

Bigpappys_gun

10-24-2007, 03:26 AM

I find it funny how the Bosnians want Kosovo to be independant or that the Kurds have no right to having a independant nation but when Bosnian Serbs talk about Republika Srpska pulling out of BiH you all get pissed!!!!!!

It seems to me that they should be against the idea of an independent kosovo if they want to avoid a independent RS

IvanHrvat

10-24-2007, 03:30 AM

I find it funny how the Bosnians want Kosovo to be independant or that the Kurds have no right to having a independant nation but when Bosnian Serbs talk about Republika Srpska pulling out of BiH you all get pissed!!!!!!

Republika Srpska has no right to exist. If the serbs their want to leave, they are free to do so but they are not taking an INCH of Bosnian land.

Kosova Za Slobodu!!!

IvanHrvat

10-24-2007, 03:30 AM

It seems to me that they should be against the idea of an independent kosovo if they want to avoid a independent RS

Republika Srpska will NEVER get independence.

Kozovo za Slobodu!!!

IvanHrvat

10-24-2007, 03:36 AM

No offense but the Serbian army wouldn't be able to cope with Nato and Albania backing Kosovo if it does indeed come down to a possible second push into Kosovo. Whatever Europe decides will be final and the Serb military cannot change the situation at all, except end up destroying itself. So I think its pretty logic stuff.

The serbian military is a joke for one and Instead of spending money on something that will never happen they should probably consider spending that money on their economy as half their population is unemployed.

I dunno what Sinter is talking about when mentioning Bosnian Forces and Croat forces linking up in Serbia but there was an operation that I think Sinter is referring to. Operation Storm (Operacija Oluja) which was a conjunction of Croat forces and ARBiH that resulted of the destruction of Republic of Serbian Krajina. Soon after that ArBiH launched attacks from Bihac to the West, Operation Sana which was launched by Atif Dudakovic. The aim was to take the cities of Sanski Most and Prijedor and use it to stage an final attack on Banja Luka resulting in the end of RS. However Dudakovic was only able to liberate Sanski Most and was told to stop until agreements were reached. The Sanski Most take over is what pretty much forced the war to end. Even though the Serbian military wasn't involved but the RS had all their equipment and still failed to stop HV and ARBiH forces. So it doesn't make many good impressions. Anyhow I don't think HV and ArBiH would have attacked Serbia because both sides just fought for survival of their homeland. They say 'A person who fights for freedom will always be a giant even to the biggest of armies that seek only power and control'. More motivation.

We should have attacked Serbia and the zivotinje Crno Gorce for what they did to Vukovar and Dubrovnik alone. let them come to Croatia today, jeba cemo im mater kao sto smo u 95!! Za dom!!

HOS!!!

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 03:39 AM

I find it funny how the Bosnians want Kosovo to be independant or that the Kurds have no right to having a independant nation but when Bosnian Serbs talk about Republika Srpska pulling out of BiH you all get pissed!!!!!!
RS is genocidal creation

and is an entity of BiH - not a federal unit - it exists only as part of BiH

poutismalakas

10-24-2007, 03:46 AM

RS is genocidal creation

and is an entity of BiH - not a federal unit - it exists only as part of BiH
Ok than Albanian Kosovo could be seen as a product of High Birth rate and Explusion then ? Either way IMO it is hybercritical!

Musa

10-24-2007, 03:49 AM

Ok than Albanian Kosovo could be seen as a product of High Birth rate and Explusion then ? Either way IMO it is hybercritical!

RS is a Part of BiH. Kosovo never was and never will be a part of serbia. They are trying to claim something to which they never had the right to in the first place, just like trying to claim Bosnia as their own to create a "Greater Serbia" in the 90's.

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 03:52 AM

Ok than Albanian Kosovo could be seen as a product of High Birth rate and Explusion then ? Either way IMO it is hybercritical!
expulsion? Kosovo has been and is independant

p.s. i see on my post it said "Edited by Poutismalakas" but nothing is changed nothing is/was different - what gives?

Musa

10-24-2007, 03:57 AM

expulsion? Kosovo has been and is independant

That's what people don't seem to understand. Kosovo was never Serbian.

poutismalakas

10-24-2007, 03:58 AM

expulsion? Kosovo has been and is independant

p.s. i see on my post it said "Edited by Poutismalakas" but nothing is changed nothing is/was different - what gives?
Sorry I was trying to reply but i hit edit instead :shocked: MY BAD:D

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 04:00 AM

Sorry I was trying to reply but i hit edit instead :shocked: MY BAD:D
i understand

poutismalakas

10-24-2007, 04:01 AM

RS is a Part of BiH. Kosovo never was and never will be a part of serbia. They are trying to claim something to which they never had the right to in the first place, just like trying to claim Bosnia as their own to create a "Greater Serbia" in the 90's.

Actually when the Serbs came into the Balkan they settled into that Area ;)

Slavs came to the territories that form modern Kosovo in the seventh-century migrations of White Serbs, with the largest influx of migrants in the 630s; although the region was increasingly populated by Slavs since the sixth or even fifth century. These Slavs were Christianized in several waves between the seventh and ninth century, with the last wave taking place between 867 and 874. The slavs assimilated many of the Illyrians. Kosovo was thus populated mostly by slavs in the valley and by Albanian and Vlach tribes in the mountains. All co-existed peacefully at this point.

The northwestern part Kosovo became part of the Serb Principality of Rascia, nominally under Byzantine fiefdom, with Dostinik as the principality's capital, whilst the south- although populated by Slavs- remained part Byzantine empire.

Kosovo finally became independent from Byzantium after uprisings led by the Serb House of Voislav, Grand Princes of Rascia. In 1093, Prince Vukan advanced on Lipljan, burned it down and raided the neighbouring areas. The Byzantine Emperor himself came to Zvečan for negotiations. Zvečan served as the Byzantine line-of-defence against constant invasions from the neighboring Raskans. A peace agreement was made, but Vukan broke it and defeated the army of John Comnenus, the Emperor's nephew. Vukan's armies stormed Kosovo. In 1094, Byzantine Emperor Alexius attempted to renew peace negotiations in Ulpiana. A new peace agreement was concluded and Vukan handed over hostages to the Emperor, including his two nephews Uroš and Stefan Vukan. Prince Vukan renewed the conflict in 1106, once again defeating John Comnenus's army. However, his death halted the total Raskan conquest of Kosovo.

In 1166, a Serbian nobleman from Zeta, Stefan Nemanja, the founder of the House of Nemanja ascended to the Rascian Grand Princely throne and conquered most of Kosovo, in an uprising against the Byzantine Emperor Manuel I Comnenus. He defeated the previous Grand Prince of Rascia Tihomir's army at Pantino, near Pauni. Tihomir, who was Stefan's brother, was drowned in the Sitnica river. Stefan was eventually defeated and had to return some of his conquests. He pledged to the Emperor that he would not renew hostilities, but in 1183, Stefan Nemanja embarked on a new offensive with the Hungarians after the death of Manuel I Comnenus in 1180, marking the end of Byzantine domination of Kosovo.

Nemanja's son, Stefan II, recorded that the border of the Serbian realm reached the river of Lab. Grand Prince Stephen II completed the inclusion of the Kosovo territories under Serb rule in 1208, by which time he had conquered Prizren and Lipljan, and moved the border of territory under his control to the Šar mountain.

In 1217, the Serbian Kingdom achieved recognition. In 1219, an autocephalous Serbian Orthodox Church was created, with Hvosno, Prizren and Lipljan being the Orthodox Christian Episcopates on Kosovo. By the end of the 13th century, the centre of the Serbian Church was moved to Peć from Žiča.

In the thirteenth century, Kosovo became the heart of the Serbian political and religious life, with the Šar mountain becoming the political center of the Serbian rulers. The main chatteu was in Pauni. On an island was Svrčin, and on the coast Štimlji, and in the mountains was the Castle of Nerodimlje. The Complexes were used for counciling, crowning of rulers, negotiating, and as the rulers' living quarters. After 1291, the Tartars broke all the way to Peć. Serbian King Stefan Milutin managed to defeat them and then chase them further. He raised the Temple of the Mother of Christ of Ljeviška in Prizren around 1307, which became the seat of the Prizren Bishopric, and the magnificent Gračanica monastery in 1335, the seat of the Lipljan Bishopric. In 1331, the juvenile King Dušan attacked his father, Serbian King Stefan of Dechani at his castle in Nerodimlje. King Stefan closed in his neighbouring fortress of Petrič, but Dušan captured him and closed him with his second wife Maria Palaiologos and their children in Zvečan, where the dethroned King died on 11 November 1331.

In 1327 and 1328, Serbian King Stefan of Dechani started forming the vast Dečani domain, although, Serbian King Dušan would finish it in 1335. Stefan of Dechani issued the Dechani Charter in 1330, listing every single citizen in every household under the Church Land's demesne.

Bigpappys_gun

10-24-2007, 04:22 AM

hmm yep thats a good evidence that kosovo was serbian

Bigpappys_gun

10-24-2007, 04:25 AM

RS is genocidal creation

and is an entity of BiH - not a federal unit - it exists only as part of BiH

Why do u think Its called Republika Srpska? For fun??

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 04:28 AM

Why do u think Its called Republika Srpska? For fun??
so you think it's a federal unit or a republic? :D

Pape

10-24-2007, 04:31 AM

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 04:32 AM

Actually when the Serbs came into the Balkan they settled into that Area ;)
they settled into albanian land ;)

Stefan of Dechani issued the Dechani Charter in 1330, listing every single citizen in every household under the Church Land's demesne.
and then continues

"In 1355, the Serbian state fell apart on the death of Tsar Stefan Dušan and dissolved into squabbling fiefdoms."

the last time it had anything to do with Serbia

Ottomans came and then the modern history is written

Pape

10-24-2007, 04:34 AM

Before I forget did anybody tell you guys that Turkey opposes the independence of Kosovo? Now you must be really confused.

poutismalakas

10-24-2007, 04:45 AM

they settled into albanian land ;)
Actuall the Albanians DID NOT EXIST yet!!!;) If they are who they claim to be then the inhaditants where Roman Illyrians and Romans who either fled into the mountains, west into what is now ALbania, Italy, East into Eastern Roman Asia Minor or where assimilated!

Musa

10-24-2007, 04:46 AM

Actually when the Serbs came into the Balkan they settled into that Area ;)

Slavs came to the territories that form modern Kosovo in the seventh-century migrations of White Serbs, with the largest influx of migrants in the 630s; although the region was increasingly populated by Slavs since the sixth or even fifth century. These Slavs were Christianized in several waves between the seventh and ninth century, with the last wave taking place between 867 and 874. The slavs assimilated many of the Illyrians. Kosovo was thus populated mostly by slavs in the valley and by Albanian and Vlach tribes in the mountains. All co-existed peacefully at this point.

The northwestern part Kosovo became part of the Serb Principality of Rascia, nominally under Byzantine fiefdom, with Dostinik as the principality's capital, whilst the south- although populated by Slavs- remained part Byzantine empire.

Kosovo finally became independent from Byzantium after uprisings led by the Serb House of Voislav, Grand Princes of Rascia. In 1093, Prince Vukan advanced on Lipljan, burned it down and raided the neighbouring areas. The Byzantine Emperor himself came to Zvečan for negotiations. Zvečan served as the Byzantine line-of-defence against constant invasions from the neighboring Raskans. A peace agreement was made, but Vukan broke it and defeated the army of John Comnenus, the Emperor's nephew. Vukan's armies stormed Kosovo. In 1094, Byzantine Emperor Alexius attempted to renew peace negotiations in Ulpiana. A new peace agreement was concluded and Vukan handed over hostages to the Emperor, including his two nephews Uroš and Stefan Vukan. Prince Vukan renewed the conflict in 1106, once again defeating John Comnenus's army. However, his death halted the total Raskan conquest of Kosovo.

In 1166, a Serbian nobleman from Zeta, Stefan Nemanja, the founder of the House of Nemanja ascended to the Rascian Grand Princely throne and conquered most of Kosovo, in an uprising against the Byzantine Emperor Manuel I Comnenus. He defeated the previous Grand Prince of Rascia Tihomir's army at Pantino, near Pauni. Tihomir, who was Stefan's brother, was drowned in the Sitnica river. Stefan was eventually defeated and had to return some of his conquests. He pledged to the Emperor that he would not renew hostilities, but in 1183, Stefan Nemanja embarked on a new offensive with the Hungarians after the death of Manuel I Comnenus in 1180, marking the end of Byzantine domination of Kosovo.

Nemanja's son, Stefan II, recorded that the border of the Serbian realm reached the river of Lab. Grand Prince Stephen II completed the inclusion of the Kosovo territories under Serb rule in 1208, by which time he had conquered Prizren and Lipljan, and moved the border of territory under his control to the Šar mountain.

In 1217, the Serbian Kingdom achieved recognition. In 1219, an autocephalous Serbian Orthodox Church was created, with Hvosno, Prizren and Lipljan being the Orthodox Christian Episcopates on Kosovo. By the end of the 13th century, the centre of the Serbian Church was moved to Peć from Žiča.

In the thirteenth century, Kosovo became the heart of the Serbian political and religious life, with the Šar mountain becoming the political center of the Serbian rulers. The main chatteu was in Pauni. On an island was Svrčin, and on the coast Štimlji, and in the mountains was the Castle of Nerodimlje. The Complexes were used for counciling, crowning of rulers, negotiating, and as the rulers' living quarters. After 1291, the Tartars broke all the way to Peć. Serbian King Stefan Milutin managed to defeat them and then chase them further. He raised the Temple of the Mother of Christ of Ljeviška in Prizren around 1307, which became the seat of the Prizren Bishopric, and the magnificent Gračanica monastery in 1335, the seat of the Lipljan Bishopric. In 1331, the juvenile King Dušan attacked his father, Serbian King Stefan of Dechani at his castle in Nerodimlje. King Stefan closed in his neighbouring fortress of Petrič, but Dušan captured him and closed him with his second wife Maria Palaiologos and their children in Zvečan, where the dethroned King died on 11 November 1331.

In 1327 and 1328, Serbian King Stefan of Dechani started forming the vast Dečani domain, although, Serbian King Dušan would finish it in 1335. Stefan of Dechani issued the Dechani Charter in 1330, listing every single citizen in every household under the Church Land's demesne.

Ok then let me rephrase. Kosovo is/was not a part of Modern day serbia. The people living in Kosovo deserve their independance. they are not Christians, so why try to force them into being a part of serbia which is a Christian country? These people deserve to live in peace without being terrorized by the Serbs. and as for the pictures of church burnings that Pape posted, i have one answer. Karma. If you want i can post thousands of pictuers of dead babies and women that were innocently killed during the Bosnian conflict. I am good friends with Pape, but i think that those pictures are just pure propaganda, There is atrocities on both sides of any given conflict, so dont try to make it look like the Serbs are angels and that peoples from Kosovo are baby killing church burning mongeloids. Sometimes i wonder is this ever going to stop, this ongoing violence in the world. World war III will not be a war of nations but a war of religion. Why cant we all just accept the fact that we are all the same? We are humans, regardless of our religion, color, ethnicity etc.. we are all the same. It's time for all people to wake up and realise that if we dont do something to stop all of this that we wont have to worry about global warming within the next 30-40 years, because we will whipe each other off the face of the earth, with all this hatred we have towards one another. We are just adding fuel to the fire here by arguing about this, so i am going to refrain from posting any of my political opinions in this thread. This is doing nothing except making members of this forum argue and dislike each other. I say we all just stop this nonsense and talk about other things. No matter how much we argue here, we are not going to change anything in the world. Let the big boys (politicians) do as they please, and if you are so bent on this issue then go join on of the countries militaries and help fight for your cause, but this honestly isnt getting us anywhere. If the world leaders want to exterminate themselves, then so be it, but at least we can all co-exsist here on this forum? Lets make this a place to make friends and have good times regardless of who you are, let Bosnians and Serbs be best friends here, regardless of past history or upbringings to hate one another. Same with Greeks and turks. i say ***k the world, ***k politics, We are here, now, lets make the best of this and enjoy some great times, because the way things are going we might not have much time to do that in the future.

Mod note:
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, BREAK UP YOUR POSTS INTO PARAGRAPHS!!!!! PLEASE ;)

poutismalakas

10-24-2007, 04:46 AM

Don't listen to them.

Bosniaks are a race formed a decade ago, never before that did anybody know what a Bosniak was, not in America, not in Iran, not in Yugoslavia. Serb converts under the Ottoman Empire to the Islamic faith simple as that. To this day they use the Serbian language and they put their own name on it. They tell us alot about the knowledge and respect they have of their history by comming into this thread and repeating a phrase written by one uneducated individual in this forum. And most of all by showing the hatred and existence of their own history, which they now want destroyed and which without they would not even exist today.

Not to mention, they are supporting the same bull that they claim the Serbs did to them in Bosnia, now thats a low appreciation and resemblence of the love they truely feel about their lost ones, and a true representation of what the image the Muslims people have formed of themselves over the last 20 years.

Actually that makes the YugoSlav war even more sad and tragic!!!!!

Bigpappys_gun

10-24-2007, 04:52 AM

so you think it's a federal unit or a republic? :D

the name says it all

Bigpappys_gun

10-24-2007, 04:58 AM

Don't listen to them.

Bosniaks are a race formed a decade ago, never before that did anybody know what a Bosniak was, not in America, not in Iran, not in Yugoslavia. Serb converts under the Ottoman Empire to the Islamic faith simple as that. To this day they use the Serbian language and they put their own name on it. They tell us alot about the knowledge and respect they have of their history by comming into this thread and repeating a phrase written by one uneducated individual in this forum. And most of all by showing the hatred and existence of their own history, which they now want destroyed and which without they would not even exist today.

Not to mention, they are supporting the same bull that they claim the Serbs did to them in Bosnia, now thats a low appreciation and resemblence of the love they truely feel about their lost ones, and a true representation of what the image the Muslims people have formed of themselves over the last 20 years.

Bosniaks should ask their grandparents what was their ethnicity

Bigpappys_gun

10-24-2007, 05:10 AM

Ok then let me rephrase. Kosovo is/was not a part of Modern day serbia. The people living in Kosovo deserve their independance. they are not Christians, so why try to force them into being a part of serbia which is a Christian country? These people deserve to live in peace without being terrorized by the Serbs. and as for the pictures of church burnings that Pape posted, i have one answer. Karma. If you want i can post thousands of pictuers of dead babies and women that were innocently killed during the Bosnian conflict. I am good friends with Pape, but i think that those pictures are just pure propaganda, There is atrocities on both sides of any given conflict, so dont try to make it look like the Serbs are angels and that peoples from Kosovo are baby killing church burning mongeloids. Sometimes i wonder is this ever going to stop, this ongoing violence in the world. World war III will not be a war of nations but a war of religion. Why cant we all just accept the fact that we are all the same? We are humans, regardless of our religion, color, ethnicity etc.. we are all the same. It's time for all people to wake up and realise that if we dont do something to stop all of this that we wont have to worry about global warming within the next 30-40 years, because we will whipe each other off the face of the earth, with all this hatred we have towards one another. We are just adding fuel to the fire here by arguing about this, so i am going to refrain from posting any of my political opinions in this thread. This is doing nothing except making members of this forum argue and dislike each other. I say we all just stop this nonsense and talk about other things. No matter how much we argue here, we are not going to change anything in the world. Let the big boys (politicians) do as they please, and if you are so bent on this issue then go join on of the countries militaries and help fight for your cause, but this honestly isnt getting us anywhere. If the world leaders want to exterminate themselves, then so be it, but at least we can all co-exsist here on this forum? Lets make this a place to make friends and have good times regardless of who you are, let Bosnians and Serbs be best friends here, regardless of past history or upbringings to hate one another. Same with Greeks and turks. i say ***k the world, ***k politics, We are here, now, lets make the best of this and enjoy some great times, because the way things are going we might not have much time to do that in the future.

Mod note:
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, BREAK UP YOUR POSTS INTO PARAGRAPHS!!!!! PLEASE ;)

I don't think Kosovo deserves having its independence. Destroying ones sacred buildings, forcing ppl to move out. Creating Illegal Police and Armies in a foreign country to assult the serbian minority. The list goes on

Musa

10-24-2007, 05:24 AM

I don't think Kosovo deserves having its independence. Destroying ones sacred buildings, forcing ppl to move out. Creating Illegal Police and Armies in a foreign country to assult the serbian minority. The list goes on

As I said in my post, i will not try to force my political opinions onto you, it is clear that we both have different opinions. I respect yours , even though i might not agree with it. However no matter how much each side tells their story theyw ill not change the other side's perspective on things. I dont possibly see a way that these petty arguments could do us all any good, so why continue? and read the second part of my previous post. I really don't wanna argue with anyone here so I'm just going to try and make the best of this situation and be friends with everyone. So Bigpappys_gun, Hi Im Mustafa. I'm Bosnian. What is your name? where are you from? what kind of music do you like? how old are you?

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 06:53 AM

Don't listen to them.

Bosniaks are a race formed a decade ago, never before that did anybody know what a Bosniak was, not in America, not in Iran, not in Yugoslavia.
:lol:

we weren't allowed to speak out but we existed long time ago

Serb converts under the Ottoman Empire to the Islamic faith simple as that.
we moved to balkans before Serbs ;)

To this day they use the Serbian language and they put their own name on it.
i don't speak serbian language - never did never will

They tell us alot about the knowledge and respect they have of their history by comming into this thread and repeating a phrase written by one uneducated individual in this forum.
yeah you are the educated one :)

And most of all by showing the hatred and existence of their own history, which they now want destroyed and which without they would not even exist today.
our history is marked by many serbian atempts to wipe us out but what happen in the 1990s was the last time - never agian will bosnians be subject to genocide and never again will we be defensless

we are pround and strong people

Not to mention, they are supporting the same bull that they claim the Serbs did to them in Bosnia, now thats a low appreciation and resemblence of the love they truely feel about their lost ones, and a true representation of what the image the Muslims people have formed of themselves over the last 20 years.
Serbian history is based on ethinic cleansing and genocides on not only bosnian populations but others as well, would that be jews, albanians, hungarians, croats, and others

we have been on balkans before Serbs have - most of my people accepted islam way back but that doesn't mark the start of us

what today serbs are preparing to Kosovars is shameless

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 07:00 AM

the name says it all
no it doesn't

it is a common missunderstanding :D

here get some basic facts about bosnia and hercegovina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

then move on and read the constitution of Bosnia and Hercegovina (source : Constitutional Court of Bosnia and Herzegovina :: http://www.ustavnisud.ba/eng/)

USTAV BOSNE I HERCEGOVINE (http://www.ustavnisud.ba/public/down/USTAV_BOSNE_I_HERCEGOVINE_bos.pdf)

:yo:

IvanHrvat

10-24-2007, 02:04 PM

we weren't allowed to speak out but we existed long time ago

The name "Bosnia" did not exist until the ottoman invasion and forced religious conversion of Croats and Serbs in that area.

we moved to balkans before Serbs ;)

What exactly do you mean by we? Bosnian Muslims, Bosnian Serbs, or Bosnian Croats? The Serbs came to the Balkans in the 7th Century. Bosnia is not mentioned until after the invasion of the Ottomas. Let's get one thing straight-Bosnia is not, and will never be a muslim country.

i don't speak serbian language - never did never will

Pricas bosanksi? What you speak is a mix between Croatian and Serbian(sprpsko hrvatski). It shouldn't be considered an official language but that's what you really speak.

yeah you are the educated one :)

More educated than one who believes Bosniaks to be an ethnic group.

our history is marked by many serbian atempts to wipe us out but what happen in the 1990s was the last time - never agian will bosnians be subject to genocide and never again will we be defensless

Really? Cause last I checked you guys were more than happy to call yourself Muslim Croats and join the Ustase in an attempt to wipe out 1/3 of the Serbs during World War 2.

we are pround and strong people

We? What do you mean by we?

Serbian history is based on ethinic cleansing and genocides on not only bosnian populations but others as well, would that be jews, albanians, hungarians, croats, and others

I agree to some extend. Do not portray yourself as innocent.

we have been on balkans before Serbs have - most of my people accepted islam way back but that doesn't mark the start of us

Again. Bosnia is not a Muslim country. Nikad nece bit!!

We? Serbs and Croats were the first to inhabit what today is known and Bosnia. There were no Bosniaks. Only Croats and Serbs until the Ottomans. Bosnian Muslims(formerly known as Croats and Serbs who inhabited Bosnia) betrayed their ethnicity, history, religion and people. You basically got on your knees and sucked the ottomans cocks!

Izdajice!!

what today serbs are preparing to Kosovars is shameless

Agree. Kosovo za slobodu!!!

IvanHrvat

10-24-2007, 02:08 PM

IvanHrvat

10-24-2007, 02:10 PM

Bosniaks should ask their grandparents what was their ethnicity

Why don't they ask them who occuptied Herceg-Bosnu before the Ottomans. Why don't they tell them what the Bosnian Muslims did during World War 2. Why don't they tell them what "Bosniaks" were called before the break up of Shugoslavija.

IvanHrvat

10-24-2007, 02:15 PM

Don't listen to them.

Bosniaks are a race formed a decade ago, never before that did anybody know what a Bosniak was, not in America, not in Iran, not in Yugoslavia. Serb converts under the Ottoman Empire to the Islamic faith simple as that. To this day they use the Serbian language and they put their own name on it. They tell us alot about the knowledge and respect they have of their history by comming into this thread and repeating a phrase written by one uneducated individual in this forum. And most of all by showing the hatred and existence of their own history, which they now want destroyed and which without they would not even exist today.

Not to mention, they are supporting the same bull that they claim the Serbs did to them in Bosnia, now thats a low appreciation and resemblence of the love they truely feel about their lost ones, and a true representation of what the image the Muslims people have formed of themselves over the last 20 years.

You left the Croats out of that completely. Not only were there mass conversions of serbs but Croats as well. As Bosnia before the ottomans, was divided between Croats an Serbs, they would eventually incorporate each others language into their own and speak a mix of Croatian and Serbian(srpsko hrvatski). That is what the Bosnians speak today despite their desperate attempts to claim their own language and be an ethnic group.

What you say is true for the most part.

IvanHrvat

10-24-2007, 02:19 PM

Why do u think Its called Republika Srpska? For fun??

Because the serbs still have dreams of a "Greater Serbia" and want to claim the right to everything. Republika srpksa has no right to exist. The serbs want to be one people with a thousand nations.

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 02:24 PM

You left the Croats out of that completely. Not only were there mass conversions of serbs but Croats as well. As Bosnia before the ottomans, was divided between Croats an Serbs, they would eventually incorporate each others language into their own and speak a mix of Croatian and Serbian(srpsko hrvatski). That is what the Bosnians speak today despite their desperate attempts to claim their own language and be an ethnic group.

What you say is true for the most part.
:rolleyes:

wow this coming from an HOS guy i'm not surprised

total BS

IvanHrvat

10-24-2007, 02:32 PM

:rolleyes:

wow this coming from an HOS guy i'm not surprised

total BS

Read this.

BOSNIAKS ARE NOT AN ETHNIC GROUP.

They never were and never will be. And whether the Muslim Bosnians like it or not, Croats and Serbs will forever be connected to that Land.

Herceg-Bosna? Ma to je zemlja gdje zive HRVATIIII!!!!!!!!

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 02:34 PM

Because the serbs still have dreams of a "Greater Serbia" and want to claim the right to everything. Republika srpksa has no right to exist. The serbs want to be one people with a thousand nations.
yeah and croatians didn't want "Greater Croatia" i.e. "the NDH" Croatia :rolleyes:

Croatia vs. Serbia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erqmOLALPd8)

like this dude who is full of himself (the one put up this video stuff) explains

"Es ist ihr Krieg..." - It is our war

"...es ist bosnische Land" - It is Bosnian Land

"Egal wer gewint..." - No matter who wins

"...Die Moslems Verlieren" - The muslims lose

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 02:37 PM

Read this.

BOSNIAKS ARE NOT AN ETHNIC GROUP.
in your dreams

we were ethinc group from the old days till now and we will stay that way ;)

They never were and never will be.
always were and always will be ;)

And whether the Muslim Bosnians like it or not, Croats and Serbs will forever be connected to that Land.
wheater you like it or not we will always be there and be connected to our homeland :rolleyes:

Herceg-Bosna? Ma to je zemlja gdje zive HRVATIIII!!!!!!!!
according to who? Tudjman who wanted to create it? :rolleyes:

IvanHrvat

10-24-2007, 02:38 PM

yeah and croatians didn't want "Greater Croatia" i.e. "the NDH" Croatia :rolleyes:

Croatia vs. Serbia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erqmOLALPd8)

like this dude who is full of himself (the one put up this video stuff) explains

"Es ist ihr Krieg..." - It is our war

"...es ist bosnische Land" - It is Bosnian Land

"Egal wer gewint..." - No matter who wins

"...Die Moslems Verlieren" - The muslims lose

We did. In fact, the initial plan between the Croats and Serbs was to divide Bosnia and Hercegovina evenly between Croats and Serbs. We still have claims to Bosnia and Hercegovina(with right too). Hercegovina for one, should be Croatian but it does not bother me. Croats will forever be connected to that land.

I misread your post here. The post above is directed for the war of the 1990's and not the NDH.

The NDH managed to get a lot of the land which initially belonged to us and the serbs in the first place. The problem is that your "NDH greater croatia arguement" proves my point which is that Bosnian Muslims did in fact not only just call themselves Croatian Muslims during WW2 but Croatian USTASE Muslims. The same people that want to deny their history and ethnicity today, were more than happy to participate in the murder of the serbs in WW2. Most Muslims born in Bosnia, cannot trace back their History as far as the 7th, 8th, or 9th century so they do not know if they are ethnically Croatian, Serbian, Turkish, or some kind of mix between the three.

IvanHrvat

10-24-2007, 02:45 PM

in your dreams

we were ethinc group from the old days till now and we will stay that way ;)

Nope. You will stay a Nationality and nothing more. Muslim Bosnians are ethnically Croatian, Serbian, or Turkish. History shows this throughout. From the 7th Century all the way to the early 1990's.

wheater you like it or not we will always be there and be connected to our homeland :rolleyes: :

Yes, the Bosnian Homeland. A country divided between Croats, Serbs, and confused Muslims.

according to who? Tudjman who wanted to create it? :rolleyes:

Nope, from the 8th Century and on we(along with the serbs) have occupied that land. Even with forced conversions, Some Croats had the guts to stick to their roots and not call themselves Bosniaks. All the way through the union with Hungary, to the first Yugo, WW2 with the Ustase, and second Yugo.

Pape

10-24-2007, 02:47 PM

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

so many educated facts comming from you Sinter :lol:

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 02:53 PM

Nope. You will stay a Nationality and nothing more. Muslim Bosnians are ethnically Croatian, Serbian, or Turkish. History shows this throughout. From the 7th Century all the way to the early 1990's.
in ur dreams or in ur HOS view ;)

Yes, the Bosnian Homeland. A country divided between Croats, Serbs, and confused Muslims.
nobody is confused but serbs and croats that dream of their "Greater Serbia" or "Greater Croatia"

Nope, from the 8th Century and on we(along with the serbs) have occupied that land. Even with forced conversions, Some Croats had the guts to stick to their roots and not call themselves Bosniaks. All the way through the union with Hungary, to the first Yugo, WW2 with the Ustase, and second Yugo.
we came to balkan before the 8th century ;)

in WWII in the begining bosniaks were the main people who supported Partisans and whopped Ustasa's, Chetniks, and then when USA shifted the support from Chetniks to Partisans (the liberators of the people at the time) we (Partisans) defeated all kinds of Fascists and Nazies ;)

Centarfor9

10-24-2007, 03:16 PM

ran across this article

Serbia's future
The Russian option

Oct 18th 2007 | BELGRADE AND MITROVICA
From The Economist print edition
Some Serbs dream of a Russian alternative to the European Union

http://www.economist.com/images/20071020/CEU944.gif

DOTTED across the Serbian north of the divided city of Mitrovica are pictures of its hero: Vladimir Putin. Russia, Kosovo's Serbs believe, has saved them from the independence demanded by its Albanians (Kosovars), who make up 90% of Kosovo's 2m people. It is too early to be sure they are right. But Western diplomats are worried by Serbia's dalliance with Russia.

Marko Jaksic, a member of Serbia's Kosovo negotiating team, helps to run northern Kosovo. He is a deputy leader of the party of Vojislav Kostunica, Serbia's prime minister. If America and many European Union countries recognise a unilateral declaration of independence by Kosovo, he expects Serbia to offer Russia military bases “in Serbia, and especially on the border of Kosovo”. He adds that Serbia should abandon its bid to join the EU, and claims that Mr Kostunica thinks similarly but has less freedom to talk openly.

Such talk is meant to send chills down Western spines. If Serbia gave up trying to join the EU, not only would it return to the isolation of the 1990s but it could also drag the whole region down with it. How serious is the risk? Mr Kostunica's party is aligned with Mr Putin's United Russia party, and its official position is that Serbia should be neutral. Mr Kostunica has disparaged a potentially independent Kosovo as nothing but a “NATO state”.

A source close to President Boris Tadic, whose party is in uneasy coalition with M