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Bosnian Unit
08-28-2007, 11:51 PM
UNHOLY ALLIANCE


May. 13. 2002

By: Takis Michas

(Takis Michas is a journalist living in Athens. His book Unholy Alliance: Greece and Milosevic's Serbia has been released by Texas A&M University Press)

Perhaps the most shocking part of the multi-volume, seven-thousand-page long Dutch report of the Srebrenica massacre - which led to the recent resignation of the Dutch government - is contained in the third volume.

Entitled 'Intelligence en de oorlog in Bosnie,' this volume deals with the involvement of foreign secret agencies and foreign powers in the war in Bosnia. Its author, Professor Cees Wiebes of Amsterdam University, has had for five years unrestricted access to the Netherlands intelligence community and to various foreign archives and the archives of the United Nations. Moreover, more than 90 foreign intelligence officials were interviewed for the project.

Aficionados of Greece's Balkan politics will find lots of interesting new material in the Dutch report, although it deals only with the years 1994-5. This was the period, however, when some of the worst atrocities were committed in eastern Bosnia, including the massacre of 8,000 Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) at Srebrenica in July 1995.

Greece's support for Milosevic's Serbia under the Mitsotakis government which ruled Greece in the early 1990's was restricted - notwithstanding the occasional breaking of the UN-imposed oil embargo - mostly to the symbolic level. However it seems that under the subsequent PASOK government of Andreas Papandreou, Athens' pro-Milosevic policies took a more sinister turn. As the report indicates, during that period Greece was not content with simply providing humanitarian assistance or even encouraging its oil tycoons to break the UN-imposed fuel embargo on Serbia. It also provided military assistance to the Bosnian Serbs and to indicted war criminal Radovan Karadzic.

'There were lots of weapons transferred from Greece,' Professor Wiebes told me in the course of a telephone interview, 'to the port of Bar in Montenegro; from there they would find their way to the Bosnian Serb Army.' The weapons consisted mostly of light arms and ammunition. Another aspect of Greek military assistance took the form of leaking NATO's military secrets to the Bosnian Serbs. 'NATO officials were very reluctant to share intelligence with either the Turks or the Greeks,' said Professor Wiebes, 'because they were afraid that intelligence would leak to either the Bosnians or the Bosnian Serbs. At some point NATO simply stopped sharing intelligence with the Greeks.'

Equally interesting were the activities of a contingent of Greek paramilitaries who were fighting in Bosnia as part of the Drina Corps under indicted war criminal General Ratko Mladic. As it was reported at the time, this group of Greek paramilitaries were in close contact with the Greek intelligence agencies, providing the latter with info concerning military developments on the various fronts of the war. According to the Dutch report, the Greek paramilitaries took part in the Srebrenica massacre and the Greek flag was hoisted in the city after it had fallen to the Serbs. The report bases its findings on telephone intercepts of the Bosnian Serb Army provided by Bosnian intelligence. 'One of the intercepted messages,' Professor Wiebes told me, 'was from General Mladic, who asked for the Greek flag to be hoisted in the city' - presumably to honor the Greek lads.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/c/c7/250px-Greek_Volunteers.PNG

The presence of Greek paramilitaries and the hoisting of the Greek flag in defeated Srebrenica were reported at the time by some Greek and foreign media. The Greek government, however, vehemently denied the allegations. Moreover, throughout the war in former Yugoslavia the Greek authorities ignored consistently the open and public recruitment of paramilitaries in Greece, who were going to fight against the UN-recognized legal government of Bosnia.

The Dutch report comes a few months after the revelation that Slobodan Milosevic had 250 (!) accounts in various Greek banks during the years 1992-6. The money was used to secretly finance Serbian military operations in Bosnia and Kosovo in the 1990's. The revelations were contained in a document from the United Nations War Crimes Tribunal, asking the Greek authorities to assist in opening the accounts. Throughout the 1990's the Greek banking authorities had repeatedly denied foreign press reports concerning the existence of Milosevic's secret funds in Greece, while leading Greek judges had publicly refused to cooperate with Carla Del Ponte, chief prosecutor at the Tribunal.

Greece provided a safe heaven for members of Milosevic’s secret services accused by international organizations for serious wrongdoings. In one such case in 1996 the Greek authorities protected and helped get away a member of Belgrade’s secret services who was wanted by the Belgian government and the Interpol for murdering Kosovo Albanian activists in Europe.

The above mentioned allegations represent of course just the tip of the iceberg of the whole sad story. The time has come for the government of Costas Simitis to make public all the information it has at its disposal and to launch a parliamentary investigation into those allegations. If Mr.Simitis fails to do so, he will be perceived as continuing the policy of his predecessors, which included in covering up serious wrongdoings. The results of such an investigation would pose no threat to either Mr. Simitis or to his close associates who always maintained a healthy distance from the Balkan policies of their predecesors. Yes, the results may prove extremely embarrassing to some of the leading PASOK cadres and ministers who constitute the o guard of Andreas Papandreou diehards as well as to some "elder statesmen" from the New Democracy opposition party. But this should not deter him. Let them face the penalty they deserve for supporting in words and deeds some of the most heinous crimes committed in Europe since World War Two.



Greece's Balkan Ghosts

Nov. 21. 2002

By: Matthew Kaminski

As Takis Michas relates in "Unholy Alliance ," Greece hasn't fitted into the European mainstream comfortably. His study has, overtly, a narrower aim: Greece's relations with Serbia during the bloody dissolution of Yugoslavia. Far from working together with its Western allies, Greece routinely obstructed NATO and EU initiatives, starting with the independence of Macedonia in 1991 to the Kosovo war in 1999. Its political and business class as well as the Greek Orthodox Church collaborated with the Serbia of Slobodan Milosevic and the Bosnian Serbs under Radovan Karadzic.

Public opinion sympathized with the Serbs and turned a deaf ear to reports of Serb war crimes and ethnic cleansing against the Muslims and Catholics. In seeking to understand Greek behavior, Mr. Michas holds up a mirror to his nation's collective psyche. He produces a polemic about Greece's tortuous path to modernization as much as an account of the time. As history, Unholy Alliance fills a gap in the large body of work on the Balkan crises. Athens was an important side actor whose policies and motivations are well discussed here. Whether left or right, successive governments during the 1990s thought they had found a kindred spirit in Milosevic. We get a few insights into Balkan-style diplomacy. Antonis Samaras, the foreign minister in the early 1990s, evidently entertained Milosevic's grand schemes for dividing up Yugoslavia.


In the fall of 1991, the Serb dictator suggested to the Greek chief diplomat he was even willing to carve up Macedonia to create a common Serb-Greek border. Samaras, who could have used his position to dissuade the Serbs from launching a series of disastrous wars, merely demurred. The Greek political establishment was too taken with leader of this "kindred Orthodox" state to notice his deadly designs. The hard-line toward Macedonia over the use of its name and the courting of Serbia dates back to the government of Constantine Mitsotakis. But the man who most shaped Greece in these days was still Andreas Papandreou, who ruled throughout the 1980s and returned to power as prime minister in 1993. As with Milosevic, he was a Socialist who whipped up a new sort of nationalism after the end of the Cold War. Looking back, it is a wonder the Balkan wars didn't spread beyond the territory of the former Yugoslavia. Not thanks to Greece. Papandreou helped Serbia bypass the U.N.-imposed trade embargo, feeding the Milosevic war machine. Michas says the Greeks supplied oil and guns, and its banks were safe homes for Belgrade's cash, "with the knowledge -- if not the approval -- of the Greek government." Others have uncovered stronger evidence of business collusion with Milosevic's Serbia than is presented here. Michas gets a few scoops of his own. We learn about the Greek paramilitaries who fought alongside the Bosnian Serbs. When Bosnian Serb General Ratko Mladic took Srebrenica and massacred 8,000 Bosniak men and boys, the worst atrocity in Europe since World War II, a Greek flag went up over the fallen city. The government knew but did nothing. Other interesting tidbits include the lengths the Greek Orthodox Church went to host Karadzic during his visits and to stop any domestic protests.

It turns out, as well, Greece routinely denied visas to members of the Serbian democratic opposition which today rules that country. And of course during NATO's 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia -- military action that Greece signed up to in Brussels -- 95% of Greeks opposed the bombing and easily dismissed reports of atrocities against Kosovar Albanians. Greece sympathized not only with Serbia, but "with Serbia's darkest side." Why? Mr. Michas, a journalistic heretic within Greece and contributor to these pages, says "the events of the last decade have demonstrated the weakness of Greek society, its vulnerability to the sirens of intolerance and willingness to fall under. . . the 'spell' of ethno-nationalism." Greek leaders openly questioned that the collapse of Yugoslavia could yield peaceful, multiethnic successor states, implicitly saying that ethnic cleansing was not only inevitable but good. A mixed Bosnia or Kosovo would undermine Greece's own founding myth as an ethnically pure Greek nation descended directly from Pericles.
If Greece is to become a truly modern European state, it must have the confidence to face up to a different reality: like its neighbors who were also carved out of the Ottoman Empire, Greece is home to large minorities, among them an estimated 200,000 Slavs whose existence Athens denies to this day. While Brussels never says so, Turkey isn't the only country which needs to treat its ethnic minorities better.

Greece's insecurity over northern frontiers, created only in the early 1990s, and self-denial of its own multi-ethnic character dates back to the Greek civil war of 1945-48 when many Slavs sided with the Communists. The failure to bury those ghosts shaped Greek foreign policy in the 1990s, and helps explain the misguided approach toward Belgrade. Papandreou promoted the idea that Greece was under threat-from tiny Macedonia, from the U.S., from Turkey -- and spun conspiracy theories to justify his policies. It continues to this day. Two years ago, a court in Athens sentenced a Greek citizen to 15 months in jail for promoting the language of the Vlachs, another small minority that lives alongside the Slavs in Greek Macedonia.

Michas's impassioned and often obsessive account deserves to be taken seriously for exposing mistakes that must not be repeated.

Bosnian Unit
08-29-2007, 02:23 PM
Im sorry, i miss speled the name of the country in the title.

It should be Greece.

If someone can change that it would be great.

PAO_HELLAS
09-01-2007, 11:42 AM
I don't have time to read the article right now, but an article from 1992 is definately a weird way to start a thread about Greece's politics this moment.... I underline "this moment", as what dominates is what will going on in the upcoming elections of September 16 after last week's national disaster, the biggest in Greek history after WW2.

Bosnian Unit
09-02-2007, 02:01 AM
I don't have time to read the article right now, but an article from 1992 is definately a weird way to start a thread about Greece's politics this moment.... I underline "this moment", as what dominates is what will going on in the upcoming elections of September 16 after last week's national disaster, the biggest in Greek history after WW2.

My point was not about current Greece's politics. I just wanted to bring this out how Greek paramilitaries helped Serbs during agression on Bosnia & Herzegovina.

And how Greece as NATO member was sharing informations with Serbs, and NATO simply stopped sharing intelligence with Greeks since that happend.

QUOTE: Public opinion sympathized with the Serbs and turned a deaf ear to reports of Serb war crimes and ethnic cleansing against the Muslims and Catholics.

And how Ratko Mladic (war criminal) hoisted a Greek flag after the genocide in Srebrenica to honor the Greek friends who where fighting along with Serbs.


By the way, i just wanted to bring this out becouse i think it deserves to be heard.

And it was writen by Greek journalist Takis Michas.

Ero
09-02-2007, 07:03 AM
the mujahideen were much worse!

ARBANITAI
09-02-2007, 08:05 AM
hmmm,,,, Interesting article...

Somehow I was well aware of that Greeks must have or were blamed both in Srebrenica massacre, and bosnian war, siding with serbian criminals within terror, destruction and genocide, and as well as in Kosova, but i wasn't so much aware that they were so deep in that too.. :rolleyes: so there's something new here..

but thou that is for sure a hell of a worse image for a country who allready was a member of the Eu, & (one of the oldest members probably) siding pro with a serb republic who was and still is so ANTI-EU country in europe.. woe,, anyway..:boo:

ARBANITAI
09-02-2007, 08:14 AM
the mujahideen were much worse!

dude everyone will say, they or them are much worser then eachother, the problem is here, who started the whole mess as first ? now i dont want to talk about the bosnian war, because you know it too, but talking about kosova war, the serbs were the agressor ones, and the one who started it all, a great military who start shooting and killing innocent ppl, without a reason... in that period anyone would seek help from anywhere just to defend your ppl and your fammiles from death and massacres, even the "mujahedeens" will be fine as long as they help one fairly by Defending/ escaping you from a serbian ethnic cleansing and pure genocide...

PAO_HELLAS
09-02-2007, 10:24 AM
My point was not about current Greece's politics. I just wanted to bring this out how Greek paramilitaries helped Serbs during agression on Bosnia & Herzegovina.

And how Greece as NATO member was sharing informations with Serbs, and NATO simply stopped sharing intelligence with Greeks since that happend.

QUOTE: Public opinion sympathized with the Serbs and turned a deaf ear to reports of Serb war crimes and ethnic cleansing against the Muslims and Catholics.

And how Ratko Mladic (war criminal) hoisted a Greek flag after the genocide in Srebrenica to honor the Greek friends who where fighting along with Serbs.


By the way, i just wanted to bring this out becouse i think it deserves to be heard.

And it was writen by Greek journalist Takis Michas.

Then you picked a wrong title for the thread. I don't see what the participation of "Golden Dawn" members and a few other volunteers (some were former military officers) in the Srebrenica incident has to do with the politics of Greece.

I just realized that the article is written by Michas. I was planning to read it but now I am not going to spend the time to read the article of someone writing for the treacherous Globalist - New World Order newspaper "Eleftherotypia". We are full of such idiots.

Saraj Fanático
09-02-2007, 05:31 PM
Greece and Greeks are kinda having a difficult time with the aftermath of those fires and all. So I won't get involved. There is time for everything but no is just not it.

Centarfor9
09-02-2007, 05:38 PM
the mujahideen were much worse!
no they were not

look who commited most of the crimes

who? Ustasa and Chetniks

Mod message : warning : take off that ustasa signature

Ero
09-02-2007, 09:32 PM
yeah the mujahideen were great... instead of fighting the serbs and defending the muslims they ethnically cleansed the Croats from Zenica and central Bosna.

Bosniaks and Serbs commited way more crimes and acts of ethnic cleansing then Croats!

Centarfor9
09-02-2007, 10:03 PM
yeah the mujahideen were great... instead of fighting the serbs and defending the muslims they ethnically cleansed the Croats from Zenica and central Bosna.
how many croats did those mujas kill?

mujahedins were working together with bosnian croats to defend cities in central bosnia

(as i have seen you 'discuss' topic of war on bosnia) i have noticed that your knowledge of the war and the actions is very limited (to say the least)

Bosniaks and Serbs commited way more crimes and acts of ethnic cleansing then Croats!
?

looking at the facts

bosnian serbs comitted more crimes than bosniaks and bosnian croats combined

but croats have commited way more crimes that bosniaks

this thread is about Greece if you want to continue 'your' topic go to bosnia politics thread - keep in mind that this "flaming" is not allowed - either be ready to discuss the topic at hand with facts or stop provoking people through different threads at the sfn forum

you have a good day sir

PAO_HELLAS
09-02-2007, 10:05 PM
This thread's title must be changed..

PAO_HELLAS
09-02-2007, 10:19 PM
Thanks.

poutismalakas
09-02-2007, 10:20 PM
it was

poutismalakas
09-03-2007, 12:13 AM
what site was this article found?

Bosnian Unit
09-03-2007, 12:16 AM
http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/uploads/greek_volunteers_with_karadjic_after_fall_of_srebrenica.jpg

Greek soldiers with Radovan Karadzic (war criminal) after the fall of Srebrenica.

Centarfor9
09-03-2007, 12:20 AM
I guess this is the follow up article:

Greece's Balkan Ghosts
Nov. 21. 2002
By: Matthew Kaminski

As Takis Michas relates in "Unholy Alliance ," Greece hasn't fitted into the European mainstream comfortably. His study has, overtly, a narrower aim: Greece's relations with Serbia during the bloody dissolution of Yugoslavia. Far from working together with its Western allies, Greece routinely obstructed NATO and EU initiatives, starting with the independence of Macedonia in 1991 to the Kosovo war in 1999. Its political and business class as well as the Greek Orthodox Church collaborated with the Serbia of Slobodan Milosevic and the Bosnian Serbs under Radovan Karadzic.

Public opinion sympathized with the Serbs and turned a deaf ear to reports of Serb war crimes and ethnic cleansing against the Muslims and Catholics. In seeking to understand Greek behavior, Mr. Michas holds up a mirror to his nation's collective psyche. He produces a polemic about Greece's tortuous path to modernization as much as an account of the time. As history, Unholy Alliance fills a gap in the large body of work on the Balkan crises. Athens was an important side actor whose policies and motivations are well discussed here. Whether left or right, successive governments during the 1990s thought they had found a kindred spirit in Milosevic. We get a few insights into Balkan-style diplomacy. Antonis Samaras, the foreign minister in the early 1990s, evidently entertained Milosevic's grand schemes for dividing up Yugoslavia.

In the fall of 1991, the Serb dictator suggested to the Greek chief diplomat he was even willing to carve up Macedonia to create a common Serb-Greek border. Samaras, who could have used his position to dissuade the Serbs from launching a series of disastrous wars, merely demurred. The Greek political establishment was too taken with leader of this "kindred Orthodox" state to notice his deadly designs. The hard-line toward Macedonia over the use of its name and the courting of Serbia dates back to the government of Constantine Mitsotakis. But the man who most shaped Greece in these days was still Andreas Papandreou, who ruled throughout the 1980s and returned to power as prime minister in 1993. As with Milosevic, he was a Socialist who whipped up a new sort of nationalism after the end of the Cold War. Looking back, it is a wonder the Balkan wars didn't spread beyond the territory of the former Yugoslavia. Not thanks to Greece. Papandreou helped Serbia bypass the U.N.-imposed trade embargo, feeding the Milosevic war machine. Michas says the Greeks supplied oil and guns, and its banks were safe homes for Belgrade's cash, "with the knowledge -- if not the approval -- of the Greek government." Others have uncovered stronger evidence of business collusion with Milosevic's Serbia than is presented here. Michas gets a few scoops of his own. We learn about the Greek paramilitaries who fought alongside the Bosnian Serbs. When Bosnian Serb General Ratko Mladic took Srebrenica and massacred 8,000 Bosniak men and boys, the worst atrocity in Europe since World War II, a Greek flag went up over the fallen city. The government knew but did nothing. Other interesting tidbits include the lengths the Greek Orthodox Church went to host Karadzic during his visits and to stop any domestic protests.

It turns out, as well, Greece routinely denied visas to members of the Serbian democratic opposition which today rules that country. And of course during NATO's 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia -- military action that Greece signed up to in Brussels -- 95% of Greeks opposed the bombing and easily dismissed reports of atrocities against Kosovar Albanians. Greece sympathized not only with Serbia, but "with Serbia's darkest side." Why? Mr. Michas, a journalistic heretic within Greece and contributor to these pages, says "the events of the last decade have demonstrated the weakness of Greek society, its vulnerability to the sirens of intolerance and willingness to fall under. . . the 'spell' of ethno-nationalism." Greek leaders openly questioned that the collapse of Yugoslavia could yield peaceful, multiethnic successor states, implicitly saying that ethnic cleansing was not only inevitable but good. A mixed Bosnia or Kosovo would undermine Greece's own founding myth as an ethnically pure Greek nation descended directly from Pericles.

If Greece is to become a truly modern European state, it must have the confidence to face up to a different reality: like its neighbors who were also carved out of the Ottoman Empire, Greece is home to large minorities, among them an estimated 200,000 Slavs whose existence Athens denies to this day. While Brussels never says so, Turkey isn't the only country which needs to treat its ethnic minorities better.

Greece's insecurity over northern frontiers, created only in the early 1990s, and self-denial of its own multi-ethnic character dates back to the Greek civil war of 1945-48 when many Slavs sided with the Communists. The failure to bury those ghosts shaped Greek foreign policy in the 1990s, and helps explain the misguided approach toward Belgrade. Papandreou promoted the idea that Greece was under threat-from tiny Macedonia, from the U.S., from Turkey -- and spun conspiracy theories to justify his policies. It continues to this day. Two years ago, a court in Athens sentenced a Greek citizen to 15 months in jail for promoting the language of the Vlachs, another small minority that lives alongside the Slavs in Greek Macedonia.

Michas's impassioned and often obsessive account deserves to be taken seriously for exposing mistakes that must not be repeated.

poutismalakas
09-03-2007, 12:25 AM
http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/uploads/greek_volunteers_with_karadjic_after_fall_of_srebrenica.jpg

Greek soldiers with Radovan Karadzic (war criminal) after the fall of Srebrenica.
Greek soldiers OR Facist Paramilitary! Show the proof that those are actual Greek Troops and not militia

poutismalakas
09-03-2007, 12:28 AM
I guess this is the follow up article:

Greece's Balkan Ghosts
Nov. 21. 2002
By: Matthew Kaminski

As Takis Michas relates in "Unholy Alliance ," Greece hasn't fitted into the European mainstream comfortably. His study has, overtly, a narrower aim: Greece's relations with Serbia during the bloody dissolution of Yugoslavia. Far from working together with its Western allies, Greece routinely obstructed NATO and EU initiatives, starting with the independence of Macedonia in 1991 to the Kosovo war in 1999. Its political and business class as well as the Greek Orthodox Church collaborated with the Serbia of Slobodan Milosevic and the Bosnian Serbs under Radovan Karadzic.

Public opinion sympathized with the Serbs and turned a deaf ear to reports of Serb war crimes and ethnic cleansing against the Muslims and Catholics. In seeking to understand Greek behavior, Mr. Michas holds up a mirror to his nation's collective psyche. He produces a polemic about Greece's tortuous path to modernization as much as an account of the time. As history, Unholy Alliance fills a gap in the large body of work on the Balkan crises. Athens was an important side actor whose policies and motivations are well discussed here. Whether left or right, successive governments during the 1990s thought they had found a kindred spirit in Milosevic. We get a few insights into Balkan-style diplomacy. Antonis Samaras, the foreign minister in the early 1990s, evidently entertained Milosevic's grand schemes for dividing up Yugoslavia.

In the fall of 1991, the Serb dictator suggested to the Greek chief diplomat he was even willing to carve up Macedonia to create a common Serb-Greek border. Samaras, who could have used his position to dissuade the Serbs from launching a series of disastrous wars, merely demurred. The Greek political establishment was too taken with leader of this "kindred Orthodox" state to notice his deadly designs. The hard-line toward Macedonia over the use of its name and the courting of Serbia dates back to the government of Constantine Mitsotakis. But the man who most shaped Greece in these days was still Andreas Papandreou, who ruled throughout the 1980s and returned to power as prime minister in 1993. As with Milosevic, he was a Socialist who whipped up a new sort of nationalism after the end of the Cold War. Looking back, it is a wonder the Balkan wars didn't spread beyond the territory of the former Yugoslavia. Not thanks to Greece. Papandreou helped Serbia bypass the U.N.-imposed trade embargo, feeding the Milosevic war machine. Michas says the Greeks supplied oil and guns, and its banks were safe homes for Belgrade's cash, "with the knowledge -- if not the approval -- of the Greek government." Others have uncovered stronger evidence of business collusion with Milosevic's Serbia than is presented here. Michas gets a few scoops of his own. We learn about the Greek paramilitaries who fought alongside the Bosnian Serbs. When Bosnian Serb General Ratko Mladic took Srebrenica and massacred 8,000 Bosniak men and boys, the worst atrocity in Europe since World War II, a Greek flag went up over the fallen city. The government knew but did nothing. Other interesting tidbits include the lengths the Greek Orthodox Church went to host Karadzic during his visits and to stop any domestic protests.

It turns out, as well, Greece routinely denied visas to members of the Serbian democratic opposition which today rules that country. And of course during NATO's 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia -- military action that Greece signed up to in Brussels -- 95% of Greeks opposed the bombing and easily dismissed reports of atrocities against Kosovar Albanians. Greece sympathized not only with Serbia, but "with Serbia's darkest side." Why? Mr. Michas, a journalistic heretic within Greece and contributor to these pages, says "the events of the last decade have demonstrated the weakness of Greek society, its vulnerability to the sirens of intolerance and willingness to fall under. . . the 'spell' of ethno-nationalism." Greek leaders openly questioned that the collapse of Yugoslavia could yield peaceful, multiethnic successor states, implicitly saying that ethnic cleansing was not only inevitable but good. A mixed Bosnia or Kosovo would undermine Greece's own founding myth as an ethnically pure Greek nation descended directly from Pericles.

If Greece is to become a truly modern European state, it must have the confidence to face up to a different reality: like its neighbors who were also carved out of the Ottoman Empire, Greece is home to large minorities, among them an estimated 200,000 Slavs whose existence Athens denies to this day. While Brussels never says so, Turkey isn't the only country which needs to treat its ethnic minorities better.

Greece's insecurity over northern frontiers, created only in the early 1990s, and self-denial of its own multi-ethnic character dates back to the Greek civil war of 1945-48 when many Slavs sided with the Communists. The failure to bury those ghosts shaped Greek foreign policy in the 1990s, and helps explain the misguided approach toward Belgrade. Papandreou promoted the idea that Greece was under threat-from tiny Macedonia, from the U.S., from Turkey -- and spun conspiracy theories to justify his policies. It continues to this day. Two years ago, a court in Athens sentenced a Greek citizen to 15 months in jail for promoting the language of the Vlachs, another small minority that lives alongside the Slavs in Greek Macedonia.

Michas's impassioned and often obsessive account deserves to be taken seriously for exposing mistakes that must not be repeated.
So this guy want s Greece to be carved up into smaller countries? NEVER

Centarfor9
09-03-2007, 12:31 AM
Greek soldiers OR Facist Paramilitary! Show the proof that those actual Greek Troops and not militia
they were soliders supported/funded by a political party from Greece (at that time in greek congress?) - that is how much i know

also the fact that Greeks working with Nato and U.S. shared intel with chetniks who were murdering people cannot be disputed

not sure about the exact % that party held or is that party still in existance

Bosnian Unit
09-03-2007, 12:31 AM
Greece faces shame of role in Serb massacre

War crimes tribunal will hear secrets of support for Milosevic's ethnic cleansing

Helena Smith in Athens
Sunday January 5, 2003
The Observer

It is what Hellenes have long feared: the shattering of a conspiracy of silence that has surrounded the role of Greek volunteers who proudly flew their flag at Srebrenica, after participating in Europe's
worst massacre since the Second World War, when 7,000 men, women and children died.

Next week, as Greece settles into the presidency of the European Union, Milan Milutinovic, Serbia's ecently retired president, will be brought before the war crimes tribunal at The Hague. Greek involvement in the atrocity, as well as other secrets Athens would prefer buried, could be revealed when the 60-year-old testifies.

http://www.kalami.net/2005/gifs05/srebrenica.gif

No one, it is said, played such a pivotal role in the alliance between Athens and Belgrade during the Nineties Balkan conflicts. As Yugoslavia's ambassador to Greece, Milutinovic was Slobodan Milosevic's most trusted lieutenant. His links with Greece's political, religious and business elites were allegedly crucial to Serbia's secret economic infrastructure. They allowed the country to evade United Nations sanctions and, according to the International Criminal Tribunal, contributed considerably towards Milosevic's war machine.

When the diplomat was promoted to Foreign Minister in 1994, he retained his Athens post for several months when, EU diplomats say, he stashed away funds to buy villas and other prime properties in Athens and Crete at the behest of his boss.

With Greece's admiring public, pro-Serbian church, tolerant media and governments that supported Milosevic, Athens was seen as a bolt-hole by the now disgraced president. As Bosnian Serb ethnic cleansers torched villages, it was here Milosevic would escape to enjoy the hospitality of Greek politicians. Marko losevic, his lascivious smuggler son, declared Greece 'my first home'.

'This is our best-kept secret, the subject no politician of any persuasion has ever wanted to broach,' said Takis Michas, author of Unholy Alliance: Greece and Milosevic's Serbia. 'In an era where everyone is saying sorry, in Greece at least no one has shown remorse for the crimes in Bosnia when undoubtedly a significant proportion of the political establishment bear some responsibility.'

The US-published book, yet to be printed in Greek, records in shocking detail the relationship between the two Orthodox nations, including the leaking of Nato military intelligence under socialist leader Andreas Papandreou.

The Greeks know their past may be catching up with them. After last month's long statement of contrition before the Hague tribunal by the former Bosnian Serb leader, Biljana Plavsic, many believe it is only a matter of time before others open up too.

A Dutch documentary investigating Greek complicity in the Serb wars was aired on local television in which a director of the semi-official Athens News Agency, Nikolas Voulelis, admitted to widespread censorship. During the wars the Greek media was fanatically pro-Serb, portraying Yugoslav Muslims as 'infidel Turks' bent on destroying their Orthodox brethren. 'Editorial interference was a given,' he said.

But it was not only hospitality or money that the Greeks offered. Spiritual succour was provided by the Greek Orthodox church which sent priests to the front line (several clerics received bravery medals from Plavsic).

In a step repeated in no other country, Archbishop Serafeim invited the Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic to visit Athens in 1993. At a mass rally attended by prominent politicians, the indicted war criminal proclaimed: 'We have only God and the Greeks on our side.'

Last year, in a 7,000-page report that the Dutch authorities commissioned into the 1995 Srebrenica massacre, Greece was revealed to have sent shipments of light arms and ammunition to the Bosnian Serb army between 1994 and 1995. The report describes how Greek volunteers were implored, in intercepted army telephone conversations, to raise the Greek flag after the town fell. In one, General Ratko Mladic asked that they record the scene on video for propaganda purposes.

Around 100 soldiers are believed to have joined the Greek Volunteer Guard, formed at Mladic's request. The unit, which fought alongside Russians and Ukrainians, was led by Serb officers and had its own insignia - the double-headed eagle of Byzantium. At least four of its members were awarded the White Eagle medal of honour by Karadzic.

Although their 'heroic' exploits were widely reported in the Greek press, the volunteers have gone to ground since the creation of the war crimes tribunal. No government or party has ever sought an inquiry into their activities

Centarfor9
09-03-2007, 12:32 AM
So this guy want s Greece to be carved up into smaller countries? NEVER
there "you" go ;)

poutismalakas
09-03-2007, 12:33 AM
they were soliders supported/funded by a political party from Greece (at that time in greek congress?) - that is how much i know

also the fact that Greeks working with Nato and U.S. shared intel with chetniks who were murdering people cannot be disputed

not sure about the exact % that party held or is that party still in existance
no their are a paramilitary miltia funded by neofacist gruop that was a political party! Yes funded by a politcal party but those guys where not supported by the Military

Also Golden Dawn was disbanded about 2 years ago

poutismalakas
09-03-2007, 12:35 AM
there "you" go ;)
that is what it sounds like to me :sad:

much of the same as you don't want Bosnia split up any further Greece should NEVER be divded!

poutismalakas
09-03-2007, 12:37 AM
Also again please say where your getting these articles

Centarfor9
09-03-2007, 12:37 AM
that is what it sounds like to me :sad:

much of the same as you don't want Bosnia split up any further Greece should NEVER be divded!
don't put words in my mouth (no offense) ;)

Centarfor9
09-03-2007, 12:38 AM
no their are a paramilitary miltia funded by neofacist gruop that was a political party! Yes funded by a politcal party but those guys where not supported by the Military

Also Golden Dawn was disbanded about 2 years ago
if that makes you sleep better ;)

poutismalakas
09-03-2007, 12:40 AM
don't put words in my mouth (no offense) ;)
NOt you that article gave me that impression;) Sorry I wasn;t that clear :D

poutismalakas
09-03-2007, 12:41 AM
if that makes you sleep better ;)
no that is what I have read and assumed to have happened BUT anything is possible cause I bet ALOT a countries made millions off that war selling arms to both sides!

poutismalakas
09-03-2007, 12:41 AM
anyways Im outta hear

Cihangir
09-03-2007, 04:24 AM
Well it's no surprise. You're Orthodox, I'm Orthodox.. Hell let's wack some Muslims!
They don't necessarily have to be supported by "the government" openly but they might have. At least the government knows about them and quietly observes. Turkish and Persian militia went there too and "God" knows how they survived there. All the militia groups must be supported.

PAO_HELLAS
09-03-2007, 11:26 AM
Greek soldiers OR Facist Paramilitary! Show the proof that those are actual Greek Troops and not militia

Greek troops never participated in the Srebrenica incident. Is there anyone here who says so? The Greeks who participated were members of the "Golden Dawn" AND single nationalists, a few of which were former members of the Hellenic Army.

no their are a paramilitary miltia funded by neofacist gruop that was a political party! Yes funded by a politcal party but those guys where not supported by the Military

Also Golden Dawn was disbanded about 2 years ago

Nothing was disbanded. "Golden Dawn" shutted down all their offices 2 years ago because they were attacked continuously by anarchists and extreme leftists, but they still exist normally as a nationalist organization.


they were soliders supported/funded by a political party from Greece (at that time in greek congress?) - that is how much i know

also the fact that Greeks working with Nato and U.S. shared intel with chetniks who were murdering people cannot be disputed

not sure about the exact % that party held or is that party still in existance

The "Golden Dawn" party never was in the Greek Parliament. Their usual percentage when they used to participate in elections was lower than 0.1% while you need 3% to enter the Greek Parliament. "Golden Dawn" stopped participating in elections after 1996 and they remained a nationalist organization, not party.


Well it's no surprise. You're Orthodox, I'm Orthodox.. Hell let's wack some Muslims!
They don't necessarily have to be supported by "the government" openly but they might have. At least the government knows about them and quietly observes. Turkish and Persian militia went there too and "God" knows how they survived there. All the militia groups must be supported.

Maybe this is how you would see it, but things aren't like this. Religion isn't the only factor. Greece and Serbia aren't the only Orthodox countries existing. Slavic "Macedonians" are also Orthodox but the opinion of most Greeks about them isn't the best. The reason for the bonds between Greece and Serbia and the reason that motivated these nationalists to enlist in the Serbian side were the Balkan wars. The solidarity of these two nations in both Balkan wars, and the help both countries offered to each other, is what made this "special relation", not only religion.
I've seen an interview of two Greek nationalists who participated in the Srebrenica incident, and they admitted this was the reason they felt to do this. I don't think Greek nationalists would ever do something like this for Bulgaria or Romania for example, countries which are also Orthodox.