Turkish Politics

[SiN]

And to top it off we have all this voting tommorow!

[Cihangir]

And to top it off we have all this voting tommorow!

It was my first time. :p

[el Turco]

I cant wait 3 more hours until they announce the first results. :)

[Cihangir]

I cant wait 3 more hours until they announce the first results. :)

About a seven million and a half of votes were counted and AKP and CHP are close but this stage is very early to talk.

[el Turco]

It still might be a little early, but AKP almost has 30% of more votes than CHP. That's a big difference.

[SiN]

Looks like the "Ampul" Party will win yet again...

[el Turco]

Looks like the "Ampul" Party will win yet again...

Almost 50% of the votes. :)

[SiN]

Not a good sign for Turkey!

[Bosanac]

Turkish George Bush? :)

[poutismalakas]

Opinions

How does this victory bode for Turkey Socially, Ecomonically, Politically, and Dipolmatically?

Opinions people!!! what do you think?



ISTANBUL, Turkey (Reuters) -- Turkey's ruling AK Party won a resounding election victory Sunday, giving the pro-business, Islamist-rooted party a mandate for reform but risking fresh tensions with the secular elite.


A rally by the Nationalist Movement Party on Saturday in Istanbul, Turkey.

The result is a moral triumph for Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan. He called early parliamentary polls after losing a battle with the establishment, including army generals, who did not want his ex-Islamist ally as head of state.

With nearly all votes counted, his party won 47 percent, up some 13 points on 2002, but a more united opposition means it will get around 341 out of 550 seats, slightly fewer than now.

"This is the first time in 52 years that a party in power has increased its votes for a second term," Erdogan told thousands of jubilant supporters outside his party's plush new headquarters in the capital Ankara where fireworks lit the sky.

"We will continue to work with determination to achieve our European Union goal," he said of strained efforts to join the bloc and anchor his country more firmly to the West. Watch Erdogan claim victory »

Only two other secularist parties crossed the 10 percent threshold into parliament -- the nationalist-minded Republican People's Party (CHP) with 21 percent and the far-right National Movement Party (MHP) with 14 percent.

A score of mainly Kurdish independents also got in, the first Kurds in the assembly since the early 1990s -- prompting wild celebrating in their troubled eastern heartland.

In cities across Turkey, Erdogan's fans danced, honked car horns, and waved huge flags with the party emblem, a lightbulb.

The parties had fought over economic reform, Kurdish separatist violence, efforts to join a hesitant EU and religion's place in a country of 74 million people that stretches from the EU in the west to Iran and Iraq in the east.

Voters seem to have dismissed opposition warnings that the AK Party secretly sought an Iranian-style theocracy, despite mass rallies this year in defense of the rigid state-religion divide in Turkey, one of the Muslim world's few democracies.

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Bitter election polarizes Turkey
"Instinctively, I feel it is too much of a majority. Fear of this religious agenda is so engrained in us, but it may just have been pumped up over the last years," said Elif Ayan, a 31-year-old film maker in Istanbul.

"I am sure they have an agenda but I don't think it is as bad as it is represented."

Erdogan, 53, has presided over an economic boom, record foreign investment, and in a sign of market cheer at his win the lira gained almost 2 percent on the dollar in early Asian trade.

Economists said Turkey's most popular politician could now press on with free-market policies and kick-start stalled EU membership talks, despite disillusionment at joining the bloc.

"This is the best-case scenario for markets ... The question now is how is the establishment going to react and this is something the markets are going to be worried about," said analyst Simon Quijano-Evans.

The army views itself as the defender of Turkey's secular state and has ousted four cabinets in 50 years, most recently an Islamist-minded predecessor of the AK Party in 1997.

"I don't think (the army) is happy but they're not going to roll the tanks out. They will explore means of making themselves felt, bearing in mind it's a government with a strong mandate," said Semih Idiz, a leading Turkish commentator.

Erdogan made conciliatory comments towards his secularist foes, quoting the revered Mustafa Kemal Ataturk who founded the republic in 1923 out of the ashes of the Ottoman empire.

The next government will quickly face challenges, such as finding a compromise candidate for president -- treading lightly to keep the army at bay -- and deciding on sending the army into northern Iraq to crush PKK Kurdish rebels based there.


That prospect increasingly worries the United States which called the poll a success for democracy, reported CNN Turk TV.

Turkish forces have battled the PKK for 23 years in a conflict that has cost more than 30,000 lives and has worsened in the last year. E-mail to a friend

Copyright 2007 Reuters. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Bosnian Unit]

Its fixed :D

[poutismalakas]

Its fixed :D
Dude I expected ALOT more from you!!!! :mad2: Your a smart guy give me a better opinion PLEASE:worried:

[el Turco]

Im very satisfied with the results. I will make more comments about it tomorrow. :)

[el Turco]

C'mon, Turkish George Bush? :)

AKP has brought Turkey out of big economy crisis, and the people of Turkey has rewarded them last night.

47%! Thats big in Turkey.

Also, they are the only party that has improved after their first term of ruling. :)

And Bosanac, if you could please all this discussion about elections here

http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showthread.php?t=55671

it'd be very nice. :)

[el Turco]

Ok, i dont think I can wait until tomorrow. :D

First of all, AKP is not very Islamic as many people think. They are not radicals. They have a lot of regular devout Muslims, but they are not radicals. :)

They bruoght stability to economy under their first term. Inflation has declined very much. They took big steps to join EU(Cihangir, I know u dont like this :D).

But, I believe reason why they got so many votes(47% is big in Turkey, considering 14 parties attended the elections), is because people didnt want a change, and the military's threat of coup against them, which happened in last April.

I believe, people of Turkey didnt want Turkish military to involve in politics too much.

There is many concern after the results came.
Some thing AKP will change Turkey into Iran or Afghanistan. This is impossible. And AKP is against it, too. I mean think about. A party that has made so much reforms to join EU will change Turkey into Iran, doesnt make sense to me. :)

The second concern is what will happen to CHP and the left-wing. CHP, the biggest of the left-wing has failed once again, and some people want their leader to resign. We will wait and see what will happen next.

Briefly, the people of Turkey has rewarded AKP. 47% still seems incredible. I hope the best happens for Turkey in the future. :)

@poutis, since you've opened this thread, what do you think about the elections and AKP. :)

A little note: I will not be here next week, and probably wont have access to internet, so I might not be able to reply any questions or messages that are sent to me. :)

[SiN]

My comments will be continued there then ;)

[SiN]

We must remember that this is a government that is trying to over throw all the concepts that the GREAT MUSTAFA KEMAL ATATURK brought to Turkey.

And also the AKP bribed many lower class communities by giving them Gold, Wood etc

[PAO_HELLAS]

Coexistence of gray wolves and Kurds in the new Turkish Parliament.... This is will be interesting to see.

[el Turco]

^^^^

Yes, that will be very interesting, indeed.

[poutismalakas]

Question will anything being done in regards to the Patriachate and the opening of the School of Haliki?

[SiN]

I have absolutley no idea what that is poutis!

[Cihangir]

Coexistence of gray wolves and Kurds in the new Turkish Parliament.... This is will be interesting to see.

Nah man don't worry, they are all controlled.
I think they are a bit overrated by the foregin media. They want to make them be seen the same way the neo-nazis are seen. A lot of them actually are just normal Turkish nationalists without nazi-like ideas. Anyway, they were the government when abdullah öcalan was captured and they couldn't do shit, they couldn't hang him as they soooo desired.
All they can do is open up bureaus all around Turkey and get by with their Ottoman dreams.

[Cihangir]

Question will anything being done in regards to the Patriachate and the opening of the School of Haliki?

Don't think so.

[poutismalakas]

I have absolutley no idea what that is poutis!

Patriarchate in the Fenar the head of the Greek Othrodox Church and FIrst amoung Equals of ALL other Othrodox Churchs WorldWide. The Greek seminary on Haliki was closed in the 70s and has stayed closed dispite repeated requests by the CHurch and serveral US Sentors to reopen it. Also is anything going to be done in regards to the laws that state that a Turkish citizen mush the Ecumenical Patriarch, with the dewinding Greek Christian population it is only a matter of time before we run out of Greek CHirstians who hold Turkish citizenship.

[PAO_HELLAS]

Question will anything being done in regards to the Patriachate and the opening of the School of Haliki?

These two issues are dependant to each other. Actually they can be considered one issue. I am saying this because if the school of Halki will remain closed, it is obvious that soon the Patriarchate will have no successor. Don't forget that the Patriarch has to be uppermost Greek Orthodox priest and Turkish citizen.

Now regarding your question, if anything will happen. History teached us well that the Turkish state is not doing anything which is not for them, unless they receive heavy pressure by someone. And as things are now, none is willing to press them. So I am afraind that nothing will be done in the near future.


Patriarchate in the Fenar the head of the Greek Othrodox Church and FIrst amoung Equals of ALL other Othrodox Churchs WorldWide.

The Patriarch of Constantinople is not the head of the Greek Orthodox Church, he is the primate of Orthodoxy - as you said first among equals of all the Orthodox Churches. The Archbishop of Athens is the head of the Greek Orthodox Church.

[poutismalakas]

The Patriarch of Constantinople is not the head of the Greek Orthodox Church, he is the primate of Orthodoxy - as you said first among equals of all the Orthodox Churches. The Archbishop of Athens is the head of the Greek Orthodox Church.

Poor choice of words Pao Signome!:D

[el Turco]

The Patriarch of Constantinople is not the head of the Greek Orthodox Church, he is the primate of Orthodoxy - as you said first among equals of all the Orthodox Churches. The Archbishop of Athens is the head of the Greek Orthodox Church.

I never understood why Greeks always refuse call that city Istanbul. Constantinople doesnt exist anymore.

I always thought that the The Patriarch of Fener was like the Pope of the Orthodox. I guess I was wrong then.

[poutismalakas]

I never understood why Greeks always refuse call that city Istanbul. Constantinople doesnt exist anymore.

I always thought that the The Patriarch of Fener was like the Pope of the Orthodox. I guess I was wrong then.
The Patriarch DOES NOT have the same powers as the Pope does in the Roman Catholic Church! If you feel that Greeks calling it by it's Greek name is insulting now imagine how Greeks feel about attacks and disrepect on the Primate of Orthodoxy of the WORLD NOT just Fener! Turks in Greece are free to vote on their reliegous leaders but Turkey continues to make it difficult on the Greek Christian church!

I believe the goverment of Turkey wants to exterminate the Orthodox Church in Turkey!?

I think that is stupid from a Tourism stand point you would imagine that Turkey would in fact encourage Pilgrims to come to Turkey to worship and help out Turkey's economy via hotels, resturants, and merchandise purchases?

There is about 15-20 Millions Greeks who if advertised right you bet over a million alone would want to go to Turkey to worship in those churchs? Now include the estimated 250-350 million Orthodox Christians worldwide how many would want to come as pilgrims if Turkey advertise right? It would be smart economically alone for the Turkish Government to work with the Patriachate and allow it to grow!?

[el Turco]

The Patriarch DOES NOT have the same powers as the Pope does in the Roman Catholic Church! If you feel that Greeks calling it by it's Greek name is insulting now imagine how Greeks feel about attacks and disrepect on the Primate of Orthodoxy of the WORLD NOT just Fener! Turks in Greece are free to vote on their reliegous leaders but Turkey continues to make it difficult on the Greek Christian church!

I believe the goverment of Turkey wants to exterminate the Orthodox Church in Turkey!?

I think that is stupid from a Tourism stand point you would imagine that Turkey would in fact encourage Pilgrims to come to Turkey to worship and help out Turkey's economy via hotels, resturants, and merchandise purchases?

There is about 15-20 Millions Greeks who if advertised right you bet over a million alone would want to go to Turkey to worship in those churchs? Now include the estimated 250-350 million Orthodox Christians worldwide how many would want to come as pilgrims if Turkey advertise right? It would be smart economically alone for the Turkish Government to work with the Patriachate and allow it to grow!?

I see how you feel about that school. I'm for freedom of religion. I believe Greek Orthodox should be able to practice their own religion, go to their own school without interfering with other people's religion. So, I believe it should be open eventhough I dont think it will be.

[Cihangir]

I believe the goverment of Turkey wants to exterminate the Orthodox Church in Turkey!?

No, they are just unwilling to do that for certain reasons. I think it's a weekness because they are afraid of any type of exploitations which will be beyond their control.
I think the same way with FenerFan tho.

[poutismalakas]

No, they are just unwilling to do that for certain reasons. I think it's a weekness because they are afraid of any type of exploitations which will be beyond their control.
I think the same way with FenerFan tho.
What fear of explotations? Greece has 11,000,000 to Turkey's 60,000,000 plus no way that Greece is going to exploit anything from that school being open.

[Cihangir]

What fear of explotations? Greece has 11,000,000 to Turkey's 60,000,000 plus no way that Greece is going to exploit anything from that school being open.

I'm not sure this is about populations of both countries.
I too don't think the school is a danger lol but the situation tends go out of subject and it's hardly ever about the school itself. That's why we have this conspiratorial shit.

[el Turco]

I dont think the goverment of Turkey wants to exterminate the Orthodox Church in Turkey. As Cihangir said, I dont think it's about the school itself.

[poutismalakas]

I dont think the goverment of Turkey wants to exterminate the Orthodox Church in Turkey. As Cihangir said, I dont think it's about the school itself.
please educate me fellas cause it seems to me that laws governing how the Patriarchs must be Turksih citizens when the Greek Christian pop in Turkey is dwindling! Will Turkey allow Greek priests to immigrant into Turkey?

[Cihangir]

I don't understand my government's governing style and I really don't know what they'll do or don't.

[SiN]

You watch and see, one cold day they will pull off their masks and reveal a Full Islamic state of control over our people and then we will be ***ked!

[Fenerliyim]

hmmm i voted for ak party when i was there. i dont support everything they do but at least they have a goal. CHP has no goals or future, it just rambles about secularism. they have no plans if they are elected. The only reason akp did not get more votes is cause erdogan's idiotic move of selling most of turkey's resources companies to foriegners. that lost a lot of votes. AKP is not a fanatic muslim party that wants islamic law, that party is saadet party and they go a 4-5% of the vote i believe.

anyway poutis imo that school should be opened but the Hagia Sophia should be reopened as a mosque.

Wat i'm more intrested in is the Cumhurbaskan elections. I wonder if Gul will get elected. he most likely will imo though.

[el Turco]

hmmm i voted for ak party when i was there. i dont support everything they do but at least they have a goal. CHP has no goals or future, it just rambles about secularism. they have no plans if they are elected. The only reason akp did not get more votes is cause erdogan's idiotic move of selling most of turkey's resources companies to foriegners. that lost a lot of votes. AKP is not a fanatic muslim party that wants islamic law, that party is saadet party and they go a 4-5% of the vote i believe.

anyway poutis imo that school should be opened but the Hagia Sophia should be reopened as a mosque.

Wat i'm more intrested in is the Cumhurbaskan elections. I wonder if Gul will get elected. he most likely will imo though.

I dont agree with that. First of all they only sold like 51% of those companies. But that's a good thing. When employees work for the state, they dont work as hard. They know they probably wont get fired and keep their jobs. But when they work for a private employer, then they know they have to work hard.

[poutismalakas]

anyway poutis imo that school should be opened but the Hagia Sophia should be reopened as a mosque.

Well isn't there already many beautiful Mosque from the ottoman era. Hagia Sphoia was built to be a Church while the others where built to be Mosques. Why not compermise?

[Fenerliyim]

I dont agree with that. First of all they only sold like 51% of those companies. But that's a good thing. When employees work for the state, they dont work as hard. They know they probably wont get fired and keep their jobs. But when they work for a private employer, then they know they have to work hard.

yes but imo it would be better for us to have the 51%.

[Fenerliyim]

Well isn't there already many beautiful Mosque from the ottoman era. Hagia Sphoia was built to be a Church while the others where built to be Mosques. Why not compermise?

it was built as a church then converted to a mosque. istanbul true has many mosques, and all of them are packed on fridays for mandatory friday prayer. it wouldnt hurt to have another mosque. especially one thats already there.

[el Turco]

yes but imo it would be better for us to have the 51%.

then there wouldnt be any point of it. They would still be working for the state. :)

[Fenerliyim]

yes thats the point, i dont want someone else owning wat the state should own.

[el Turco]

I dont think state should own majority of those companies. I mean, Omer look at USA. In New Jersey, you pay electricity and gas bill to PSE&G, in New York there is Con Ed, those are all private owned companies. State doesnt own them. Is there such a thing called American Telecom in US. No, you can select Optimum, Verizon or whatever you want. None of them is owned by the state, they're all private. Same with THY and all others. :)

[Fenerliyim]

I just dont trust anyone else with Turkeys resources. turkey will be just taken advantage of imo

[PAO_HELLAS]

it was built as a church then converted to a mosque. istanbul true has many mosques, and all of them are packed on fridays for mandatory friday prayer. it wouldnt hurt to have another mosque. especially one thats already there.

:lol:

[el Turco]

I think we should change the name of the thread to "Turkish Politics". So we can talk about the Turkish politics in general.

What do you guys think about the presidential candidate Abdullah Gul?

[el Turco]

Well isn't there already many beautiful Mosque from the ottoman era. Hagia Sphoia was built to be a Church while the others where built to be Mosques. Why not compermise?

Yes, it was built to be a church. But if you look at the history, when one country conquers another, they change the mosques to churches and vice versa. Spaniards changed those mosques built by Umayyad to discotheques. So, Ottomans had every right to change it to a mosque, and they didnt change all churches in Istanbul to mosques. There were still many Orthodox Churches in Istanbul during the time of Ottoman ruling, and there still is. :)

[PAO_HELLAS]

Yes, it was built to be a church. But if you look at the history, when one country conquers another, they change the mosques to churches and vice versa. Spaniards changed those mosques built by Umayyad to discotheques. So, Ottomans had every right to change it to a mosque, and they didnt change all churches in Istanbul to mosques. There were still many Orthodox Churches in Istanbul during the time of Ottoman ruling, and there still is. :)

Why don't you turn the temple of Apollon at Dydima into a mosque too? Maybe the reason is that it is not in a very good condition :D.

[Cihangir]

Lol is it better if people demolished it?
It's a worthless talk.

[PAO_HELLAS]

I would not say it is a worthless talk, because religion is a sensible issue. I don't have anything against the ones who don't believe in any religion, they have the right to do this. But none of them has the right to insult religion, just like the religious ones don't have the right to insult other religions than their own.

What I want to say is that Temples are not simple buildings like all the others, they represent a religion. And changing a temple of a specific religion to a temple of a different one is disrespectful. If temples are used for the practice of a religion, they must be always used for the practice of the religion they were built for, that's my personal opinion.

[Cihangir]

^^

Did I insult somebody or something?

You say that this is a disrespectful move. Than it concerns both Christians and Muslims in Anatolia and Balkans since every country has done this converting thing. These changes can easily be made since the architectural style of this particular regions are pretty much the same even though the religions differ.
I ask this again, would you rather see them demolished?

What if Hagia Sophia was demolished? I would really not want that.

[PAO_HELLAS]

I was not referring to you Cihangir, I expressed my opinion that temple convertion is disrespectful to the religion. And I am not referring only to Turks, but to anyone who did this kind of convertion.

I would not rather see anything demolished, and I don't see why I must have this logic: "they could be demolished, so we have to be thankful they were just covnerted". I am commenting on things as they are, expressing what I would consider right.

[cengo]

I agree with Cihangir that this is a wasteless talk.

Ayasofya belongs to Türkiye and we could have done whatever we have wanted to with it. Instead of demolishing it we made a mosque out of it...which makes perfect sense when it's a muslim country.

I have seen too many mosques being destroyed by christians to even have a debate over this. Still in Istanbul there are a dozen churches left for the orthodox people to practice their religion.

Not only in Istanbul but all over the country.

Im not even that religious so i couldnt care less if it was a mosque or a church.

But ayasofya is a really nice mosque....too bad they only use it as a museum these days.

[el Turco]

Very well said Cengo. :)

[Cihangir]

Yes not just Istanbul but in whole of Turkey, there are more churches than the whole Balkan territory has mosques. Knowing that Turks started to exist in Anatolia roughly since 1071, that tells a lot.

[ARBANITAI]

well its ovious why you have so many churches throughout turkey today :D because back then, a christian nation lived..and [churches] but saying that you as a muslim country let so many churches still today as churches and not converted yet, then you have a point there ;)

but talking about hagia sophia, I dont really know why this "bothers" greeks so much, Yes it was a Church no one denies that, but it was also a Byzantine church, a ByzantinEmpire which was a big multi-ethnic empire with multi-ethnic citizens, and if you claim that "greeks" owned that empire then i can say ur greatlty wrong, since historical facts tells us very good the origine and biography of these byzantine head-kings and emperors and who they were ethnically, and where they exactly came from...
Anyway lets not get into deep with that now, since its not the thread and time to talk about it now, but back to topic, SO my opinion about it in general is that I would'nt really blame the turks for converting hagia sophia to a mosque perhaps, since its much better like that, rather then demolishing it all, as they mentioned, indeed it is inside turkish republic, and we have to be honest with turkey, they wouldnt really like an once-Byzantine a (foreign) cathedral-church there, like that in the middle of Istanbul, like no one else would wanted, and even if it wasn't convertetd, they dont follow that religion, and non will visit it then, so instead of just letting it like that, they got a beautifulmosque out of it, which pretty much more sattisfied the citizens there, rather then any other thing else.


But again if you think I wasnt fair with that what i said and all that, then take a look at other simmilar things like the converted religious houses and those who later turned into another religious house and etc, the example is Spain, Portugal, Italy as well as other countries i dont want to mention now, but the biggest of it is, Spain or the southern Spain, today Andaluzia, only a little back then, you would see southern Spain, a land with full of mosques, and hamams especially in the cities like cordoba, sevilla, almeria and other bigger cities, there were hundreds of mosques in every corner of them, today you will not find even a single one of them, there were 2 options here, their rathered been converted as mostly they did or simply demolished like that, which also happend during that time, so there's a big lesson to know that in every places such things existed, somewhere even worser, but thats it, its annoying and even disrepectfull maybe but such things existed throughout history and we cant denie it.

[PAO_HELLAS]

but talking about hagia sophia, I dont really know why this "bothers" greeks so much, Yes it was a Church no one denies that, but it was also a Byzantine church, a ByzantinEmpire which was a big multi-ethnic empire with multi-ethnic citizens, and if you claim that "greeks" owned that empire then i can say ur greatlty wrong, since historical facts tells us very good the origine and biography of these byzantine head-kings and emperors and who they were ethnically, and where they exactly came from...
Anyway lets not get into deep with that now, since its not the thread and time to talk about it now, but back to topic, SO my opinion about it in general is that I would'nt really blame the turks for converting hagia sophia to a mosque perhaps, since its much better like that, rather then demolishing it all, as they mentioned, indeed it is inside turkish republic, and we have to be honest with turkey, they wouldnt really like an once-Byzantine a (foreign) cathedral-church there, like that in the middle of Istanbul, like no one else would wanted, and even if it wasn't convertetd, they dont follow that religion, and non will visit it then, so instead of just letting it like that, they got a beautifulmosque out of it, which pretty much more sattisfied the citizens there, rather then any other thing else.


What does the fact that the Byzantine Empire was multi-ethnic (like any empire) has to do with what we are talking about? Does that means that Agia Sofia was a multi-religious church or something? :D I don't get you. The rest of the post is your opinion and it's respected, but I don't see the necessity of the first part.

[FK SARAJEVO]

what do you guys think of Abdullah Gul. He just became the 11th president of Turkey. I have been following Turkish politics and I think both Gul and Erdogan are very capable leaders with an excellent economic record. I also believe that Gul will take Turkey to the EU very soon :)

i wish we had such leaders for Bosnia.

[Fenerliyim]

I like and support Gul but there are many who dont like the leaders of AK party at all.

[FK SARAJEVO]

yeah especially the generals, but i dont think they can do anything like a coup because Gul is too popular now.

i was wondering, is the military under Gul's control now???

[poutismalakas]

I think the Military is under the Generals control? Isn't that is how the Constitution says?????

[Bosnian Unit]

This is good for Turkish people, im sure Gul will be great leader.

So what if he coomes from AK party, that is even better :) .

Come on in some nations you have such leaders who talk to Jesus, and Jesus told them to attack Mesopotamia and save those great people there from brutal dictator.

The presidens who say BRING THEM ON......... the presidents who are crazy ass cowboys who kills for dollars....

Gul is great guy, and i hope he never bring Turkey to EU. Becouse if he does Turkey will just go down......Great and stable nations such as Switzerland & Norway are not in EU, even tough EU beg them to become members.

There is nothing in EU for Turkish people........other then if they would like to work like Romanians,Polish and Bulgarians on farms in Portugal,France,UK like Mexicans do in US for minimum wage.

[Sarajbahçe]

^ yeah thats so stupid
EU is bs.. i used to live in Germany and ever since i left i heard how bad it is there and expensive and hard life now
and Bosnia wants to join EU.. they shouldnt and i hope they dont
its such bs

[Fenerliyim]

yeah especially the generals, but i dont think they can do anything like a coup because Gul is too popular now.

i was wondering, is the military under Gul's control now???


the military doesnt care if hes popular or not, they would go on with the coup anyway.

[Bosnian Unit]

the military doesnt care if hes popular or not, they would go on with the coup anyway.

I was just wondering how EU likes to brag about democracy and freedom. But im sure they(and US) would support Turkish military if president who was chosen by the people was religious for example to take him out.

But at the end of the day there is nothing wrong with Bush being religious, and saying Jesus told him to do what he did. What is also sad, some people belived him.

[FK SARAJEVO]

the military doesnt care if hes popular or not, they would go on with the coup anyway.

so this means the military is not under his control.

but bro you gotta understand, if the military intervenes Turkey can forget about the EU and all economic and international development. i dont think they're the military is that stupid. and if they are that stupid the the people should overthrow these generals who are clearly working against the best intrests of Turkey.

[Fenerliyim]

Our military is one of the biggest reasons we can get in the EU, in all truth we are militiristic country hidden behind a democratic veil. Everyone in Turkey respects the military plus how can civilian overthrow the military and lets not forget the other 50% of the people support the military and the generals

[el Turco]

I think Abdullah Gul will be a great president. :)

[ARBANITAI]

What does the fact that the Byzantine Empire was multi-ethnic (like any empire) has to do with what we are talking about? Does that means that Agia Sofia was a multi-religious church or something? :D I don't get you. The rest of the post is your opinion and it's respected, but I don't see the necessity of the first part.

Exactly ! :)

Then why do you have to claim the church (as yours) then, when you admit it yourself it was an multi-ethnic empire ? :)

it was an orthodox church, but also a byzantine one.

are we clear this time :lol:

[Cihangir]

I think Abdullah Gul will be a great president. :)

I'm still having trouble with people who think gül is okay. gül may be a good president, that doesn't matter. Was Necdet Sezer bad? No, he was just doing his job. A president does not have to apper on TV every day throwing fake smiles and try to seem like "he's down there." A president's importance in Turkish laws are there to see and tayyip erdoğan is restricting them not to give too much power to gül. gül will just be the last stop of AKP's laws and shit. erdoğan will send the papers and he will just "okay" them.

My real problem is how can you be okay with an Exeter University graduate? That university trains English agents and EVERYBODY knows it. How can you be okay with someone who was screaming his ass off to tear down the secular state and bring in the Persian style about 10 years ago? How can you even be okay with a guy who was one of the masterminds behind that Bosnian War campaign fiasco!? No one still knows where all that money went? Well "officially" we don't but in real, we all know where they went! And finally how can you still be okay with a guy who said "we used religion for a period?"
Is he a real Muslim? Is he liar? How can a liar be a Muslim? How can people trust a liar like this? And i'm not gonna go forward with it.

They brought an English agent to the presidency for this so called ***king "stability". We still live under the standarts! The percentage of people living under the poverty line never changed. How can this be okay? Have you ever stop to think what economic stability they are talking about?