Bosnia Politics

[Fenerliyim]

PS: Saying that Bosnia is a Third World Country is an insult.

who said bosnia was one. And to my knowledge that means "Devolping nation" which may be true in Bosnia's case

[Bosanac]

who said bosnia was one. And to my knowledge that means "Devolping nation" which may be true in Bosnia's case


I'm sorry, are you insulting Bosnia?

[Fenerliyim]

No i am not, Bosnia is a developing nation due to the horrible events that happened it its time. Former soviet union countries are considered as "Developing nations" and unfortunatly bosnia also went through a massacre which set it back even more. Its not an insult.

The eastern part of turkey is also developing while the west has already developed. Its not an insult. I accept and acknowledge that eastern part of turkey is still developing and i one day would like to help it develope.

[serhat09]

Also WHAT constitutes the difference between 2nd and 3rd world nations?

GDP Per Capita
Living Standards
Total GDP
Human Rights
General hygiene
Literacy Rate
Education Level

Stuff like that.

[Bosanac]

GDP Per Capita
Living Standards
Total GDP
Human Rights
General hygiene
Literacy Rate
Education Level

Stuff like that.

Our percentage (standard) is as high in all those categories as any other major country .. like Germany, England, Italy, or the US.

[poutismalakas]

well according to wikipedia Bosina ranks as 2nd world??? Also ALL Im saying is that you do have a history of over reacting. Just imagine if you where Greek and you're dealing with Benifca64 my GOD you would had have a stroke many times over by now!!

[serhat09]

I think you'd better look up some stats Bosanac.

Your GDP Per Capita has fallen from 2004 to 2006. And it is quite low. Your tied among counties like Swaziland and Albania. You're below countries like Botswana, Mexico, and Suriname....You are nothing close to Germany, England, Italy, or the US. Not even close when it comes to Economics. It's hard to believe your word when you are literally spoon feeding me horseshit.

[Centarfor9]

p.s. bosanac wtf?

[Bosanac]

I think you'd better look up some stats Bosanac.

Your GDP Per Capita has fallen from 2004 to 2006. And it is quite low. Your tied among counties like Swaziland and Albania. You're below countries like Botswana, Mexico, and Suriname....You are nothing close to Germany, England, Italy, or the US. Not even close when it comes to Economics. It's hard to believe your word when you are literally spoon feeding me horseshit.

People in Bosnia live exactly the same way as any other Western Country. I'm not talking about Economics, I'm talking about the way people live. The culture, and everything. I know our Economics is not the very good at the moment, but to be called a Third World Country because of a poor economy is short-sighted.


p.s. bosanac wtf?


Nedaju mi da spavam ba, Ipak je Bosna u pitanju.

[serhat09]

Bosnia is also ranked in the bottom tier in Europe in the Human Development Index Ratings as well. Bottom 10 if you must know.

You are FAR lower than you believe in Total GDP as well...Bosnia Ranks among countries like Ethiopia Ghana, Botswana, Jamaica, and Bolivia (World Bank)

[Centarfor9]

I think you'd better look up some stats Bosanac.

Your GDP Per Capita has fallen from 2004 to 2006. And it is quite low. Your tied among counties like Swaziland and Albania. You're below countries like Botswana, Mexico, and Suriname....You are nothing close to Germany, England, Italy, or the US. Not even close when it comes to Economics. It's hard to believe your word when you are literally spoon feeding me horseshit.
when it comes to GDP our economy suffered because of the war...before the war we had industries that ranked highest not only in Europe but in the world...the steel plant in Zenica was the 3rd biggest in Europe and 7th in the world before the war it employed tens and tens of thousands of people, and there are many industries like that that are now destroyed

don't worry we will be back GDP through the roofs

[poutismalakas]

yes BUT isn't that one of the aspects of determining a nation rank???

[serhat09]

People in Bosnia live exactly the same way as any other Western Country. I'm not talking about Economics, I'm talking about the way people live. The culture, and everything. I know our Economics is not the very good at the moment, but to be called a Third World Country because of a poor economy is short-sighted.

Well I never called it third world. But i'm just saying that you are under the wrong impression if you believe Bosnia ranks high in the criteria I wrote above.

Turkey is more or less in a similar statistical shape, living wise, I understand what you're getting at.

[poutismalakas]

when it comes to GDP our economy suffered because of the war...before the war we had industries that ranked highest not only in Europe but in the world...the steel plant in Zenica was the 3rd biggest in Europe and 7th in the world before the war it employed tens and tens of thousands of people, and there are many industries like that that are now destroyed

don't worry we will be back GDP through the roofs
yes but also before the war Bosnia was part of Yugoslavia!

[Centarfor9]

Bosnia is also ranked in the bottom tier in Europe in the Human Development Index Ratings as well. Bottom 10 if you must know.

You are FAR lower than you believe in Total GDP as well...Bosnia Ranks among countries like Ethiopia Ghana, Botswana, Jamaica, and Bolivia (World Bank)
dude why can't you understand war and that we were totally destroyed by it...we are not your third world country...you will be pleasantly surpised when you visit Bosnia

[Centarfor9]

yes but also before the war Bosnia was part of Yugoslavia!
and what?

[serhat09]

when it comes to GDP our economy suffered because of the war...before the war we had industries that ranked highest not only in Europe but in the world...the steel plant in Zenica was the 3rd biggest in Europe and 7th in the world before the war it employed tens and tens of thousands of people, and there are many industries like that that are now destroyed

don't worry we will be back GDP through the roofs

Key word throughout your post, "was"

War destroys local economies, this is no new phenomena. I wasn't the one telling anyone Bosnia is Third World. But the criteria I listed ranks Bosnia low currently. Clearly it's in a rebuilding phase, I'm not arguing that. But the true path to improvement is being mindful of what's really happening in the present. If everybody in Bosnia believed they were among the top tier in the criteria that was mentioned, then improvement would be zilch.

[serhat09]

The past isn't relevant in this argument. It's like me saying, well the Ottoman Empire was one of the greatest Empires in History, and we had one of the best Economies ever, but if it didn't Collapse, Turkey would be a top 10 power.

It's ridiculous. It's not the case. Live in the now.

[Bosanac]

War doesn't change the mentality of a Country.


That's what I mean, and I think the mentality of a Country decides whther Country should be called a Third World, or a Second World.. whatever.


Our mentality is a Western society, and with the highest living standards.

[Centarfor9]

Key word throughout your post, "was"

War destroys local economies, this is no new phenomena. I wasn't the one telling anyone Bosnia is Third World. But the criteria I listed ranks Bosnia low currently. Clearly it's in a rebuilding phase, I'm not arguing that. But the true path to improvement is being mindful of what's really happening in the present. If everybody in Bosnia believed they were among the top tier in the criteria that was mentioned, then improvement would be zilch.
we can't have high total GDP like America (USA) or Japan we are a small country...if you want to carry this any fruther open a thread in politics forum and i will gladly discuss this...or you can do it here...but i recommend politics forum since this is off topic

[serhat09]

The past isn't relevant in this argument. It's like me saying, well the Ottoman Empire was one of the greatest Empires in History, and we had one of the best Economies ever, but if it didn't Collapse, Turkey would be a top 10 power.

It's ridiculous. It's not the case. Live in the now.

[serhat09]

War doesn't change the mentality of a Country.


That's what I mean, and I think the mentality of a Country decides whther Country should be called a Third World, or a Second World.. whatever.


Our mentality is a Western society, and with the highest living standards.

So if the people Eritrea or the Congo believed that they were a western society, despite not even having running water, or clean drinking water, or proper shelters would propel it to a Second World status?

[Centarfor9]

The past isn't relevant in this argument. It's like me saying, well the Ottoman Empire was one of the greatest Empires in History, and we had one of the best Economies ever, but if it didn't Collapse, Turkey would be a top 10 power.

It's ridiculous. It's not the case. Live in the now.
so you need to have total GDP one like USA has to not to be considered thrid world country???

[Centarfor9]

So if the people Eritrea or the Congo believed that they were a western society, despite not even having running water, or clean drinking water, or proper shelters would propel it to a Second World status?
we are nothing like that :lol:

running water :)

omg...

[Bosanac]

So if the people Eritrea or the Congo believed that they were a western society, despite not even having running water, or clean drinking water, or proper shelters would propel it to a Second World status?

That is not the case with Bosnia though. We've already almost rebuilt Sarajevo, and when everything is finished it is going to be even better than it was. Search on google for Sarajevo pictures, and see it yourself.

[Bosanac]

we are nothing like that :lol:

running water :)

omg...


I know man, I now realize how clueless these people are about Bosnia.

[serhat09]

so you need to have total GDP one like USA has to not to be considered thrid world country???

Seriously man, GDP per capita is a rather large weight in global politics. It has relevance to Power (soft and hard power), shows national stability, shows that it has a proper monetary system in place, shows that it is capable of proper living standards, etc.

There are exceptions of course. You can look at Dubai. One part of Dubai looks like a shanty town whereas the other part looks like a world a century ahead of its time.

But if you look at the list of countries in ascending order of GDP Per Capita, you will see a large consensus of Third World Countries falling in the ranks among the lowest of GDP's.

[serhat09]

we are nothing like that :lol:

running water :)

omg...


You are putting words in my mouth ;). I was giving a hypothetical example of Eritrea and the Congo. Not Bosnia. I was making the point that even the poorest of countries, despite 'mentality', cannot change its 'class' of World Status.

[serhat09]

I know man, I now realize how clueless these people are about Bosnia.

Again, foolish attempts to put words in my mouth are pathetic. If you guys don't care to discuss this seriously, than I'm done here. Read carefully before you make such bold assumptions.

[Centarfor9]

Seriously man, GDP per capita is a rather large weight in global politics. It has relevance to Power (soft and hard power), shows national stability, shows that it has a proper monetary system in place, shows that it is capable of proper living standards, etc.
we are fine in world of global politics...we have good relation with the world without selling our soul


There are exceptions of course. You can look at Dubai. One part of Dubai looks like a shanty town whereas the other part looks like a world a century ahead of its time.
that's why i said that's Serbrenica region


But if you look at the list of countries in ascending order of GDP Per Capita, you will see a large consensus of Third World Countries falling in the ranks among the lowest of GDP's.
with one dollar you can buy a lot in bosnia (am i right bosanac) :D

we don't need 55,000 a year to live in Bosnia with the prices that are there

[Bosanac]

You are putting words in my mouth ;). I was giving a hypothetical example of Eritrea and the Congo. Not Bosnia. I was making the point that even the poorest of countries, despite 'mentality', cannot change its 'class' of World Status.

Mentality drives a Nation to go forward or backward. Our mentality is very positive, and we are moving forward. Mentality is the deciding factor, but it also requires other will of the people. Fortunately we have both

You're looking at this all wrong

[Centarfor9]

You are putting words in my mouth ;). I was giving a hypothetical example of Eritrea and the Congo. Not Bosnia. I was making the point that even the poorest of countries, despite 'mentality', cannot change its 'class' of World Status.
desribe Bosnia for me...(for example you described Congo with no running water etc) describe bosnia

[Fenerliyim]

dude why can't you understand war and that we were totally destroyed by it...we are not your third world country...you will be pleasantly surpised when you visit Bosnia

uh hello, wars destoryed ur country sending it back, therefore it is possible to fall back to a third world country state. But as poutis said, its ranked as a second world country

[serhat09]

we are fine in world of global politics...we have good relation with the world without selling our soul


Now you're getting into a different dimension in the conversation. Apart from partnerships, coalitions, such and such there are many examples of countries that rebuilt themselves from ground up like Bosnia is doing right now. "Ground up" being an expression. Don't take it literally. Spain is an example of this, Ireland is an example of this, Switzerland is an example and there are many more.


that's why i said that's Serbrenica region


And that's why I never said Bosnia was a third world country


with one dollar you can buy a lot in bosnia (am i right bosanac) :D

we don't need 55,000 a year to live in Bosnia with the prices that are there

Yeah that's called inflation. Turkey had the same thing. I could goto Turkey with maybe 1000 dollars a few years ago, and live literally like a King for at least 2 months. In Canada, I cannot do that.

[kanaryamerika]

Would you consider South Africa a third world country? Lives very western, progressive, etc, but is also quite poor.

[Centarfor9]

uh hello, wars destoryed ur country sending it back, therefore it is possible to fall back to a third world country state. But as poutis said, its ranked as a second world country
in the war it was a bad situation any war is but bosnia is no third world country...tell that to your friend

[serhat09]

desribe Bosnia for me...(for example you described Congo with no running water etc) describe bosnia

Bosnia is likely more or less like Turkey. They have extremely civilized and 'western' cities such as Sarajevo, or you can have a more modest city like Mostar...You'll have the villages that are a little more rugged let's say...

Life can be pretty difficult with a low value currency and a low GDP per capita, but then again, prices usually adjust to the performance of a countries general economy.

Comparable to a City like Izmir in Turkey (Like Sarajevo) and Mostar (Like Gaziantep).

They are also Football mad I assume? ;)

[kanaryamerika]

the official list for third world countries.

Asia (10 Countries)

* Flag of Afghanistan Afghanistan
* Flag of Bangladesh Bangladesh
* Flag of Bhutan Bhutan
* Flag of Cambodia Cambodia
* Flag of Laos Laos
* Flag of Maldives Maldives
* Flag of Myanmar Myanmar
* Flag of Nepal Nepal
* Flag of East Timor East Timor
* Flag of Yemen Yemen

Africa (34 Countries)

* Flag of Angola Angola
* Flag of Benin Benin
* Flag of Burkina Faso Burkina Faso
* Flag of Burundi Burundi
* Flag of Cape Verde Cape Verde
* Flag of Central African Republic Central African Republic
* Flag of Chad Chad
* Flag of Comoros Comoros
* Flag of Democratic Republic of the Congo Democratic Republic of the Congo
* Flag of Djibouti Djibouti
* Flag of Equatorial Guinea Equatorial Guinea
* Flag of Eritrea Eritrea
* Flag of Ethiopia Ethiopia
* Flag of The Gambia Gambia
* Flag of Guinea Guinea
* Flag of Guinea-Bissau Guinea-Bissau
* Flag of Lesotho Lesotho
* Flag of Liberia Liberia
* Flag of Madagascar Madagascar
* Flag of Malawi Malawi
* Flag of Mali Mali
* Flag of Mauritania Mauritania
* Flag of Mozambique Mozambique
* Flag of Niger Niger
* Flag of Rwanda Rwanda
* Flag of São Tomé and Príncipe Sao Tome and Principe
* Flag of Senegal Senegal
* Flag of Sierra Leone Sierra Leone
* Flag of Somalia Somalia
* Flag of Sudan Sudan
* Flag of Tanzania Tanzania
* Flag of Togo Togo
* Flag of Uganda Uganda
* Flag of Zambia Zambia

Oceania (5 Countries)

* Flag of Kiribati Kiribati
* Flag of Samoa Samoa
* Flag of Solomon Islands Solomon Islands
* Flag of Tuvalu Tuvalu
* Flag of Vanuatu Vanuatu

North America (1 Country)

* Flag of Haiti Haiti

[edit]

[serhat09]

in the war it was a bad situation any war is but bosnia is no third world country...tell that to your friend

Ok man. Show me where in my post where I told you "Bosnia is a third world country"

Seriously, you're being extremely selective in this discussion. Your original quarrel was with the Greek fellow, not me.

[Bosanac]

We've improved a lot since the war, and I'm tired of this.. 'Your Country was in a war, therefore now it's a third world country' assumption. No, that is not true.


Stop talking about what you don't know, you're all just speaking out of your arses.

[Centarfor9]

Now you're getting into a different dimension in the conversation. Apart from partnerships, coalitions, such and such there are many examples of countries that rebuilt themselves from ground up like Bosnia is doing right now. "Ground up" being an expression. Don't take it literally. Spain is an example of this, Ireland is an example of this, Switzerland is an example and there are many more.
everybody is grouping up some countries are "kissing up" also...not Bosnia...oh no brother (expression)



And that's why I never said Bosnia was a third world country
but that's what that pic represents us as

Srebrenica region is being fixed up...that is the issue right now


Yeah that's called inflation. Turkey had the same thing. I could goto Turkey with maybe 1000 dollars a few years ago, and live literally like a King for at least 2 months. In Canada, I cannot do that.
we have good inlation rate a "healty one" :D

or money is pretty strong! :D Praises to Allah!

[serhat09]

We're improved a lot since the war, and I'm tired of this.. 'Your Country was in a war, therefore now it's a third world country'. No, that is not true.


Stop talking about what you don't know, you're all just speaking out of your arses.

If this was directed at me, I would love for you to point out where I said that.

[Centarfor9]

Ok man. Show me where in my post where I told you "Bosnia is a third world country"

Seriously, you're being extremely selective in this discussion. Your original quarrel was with the Greek fellow, not me.
i don't have quarrel's it's a discussion

but I and Pout are friends (at least i thik so)

[Bosanac]

If this was directed at me, I would love for you to point out where I said that.


Fener said that.


Also, serhat, if we go by your theory. It gives me the right to say exactly this..


Fenerliyim, Turkey is a Third World Country

[serhat09]

but that's what that pic represents us as

Srebrenica region is being fixed up...that is the issue right now



Then do what you please with that user. If someone posted a video of a Kurdish town making fun of Eastern Turkey or something, I would take it personally since I'm from there (Gaziantep). Although, knowing me I'd probably discuss it with the person, find out the true intention of the video, if it was just a tasteless joke, i'd let it slide, but if it was a constant occurance. I'd probably give out a suspension.

[serhat09]

Fener said that.


Also, serhat, if we go by your theory. It gives me the right to say exactly this..


Fenerliyim, Turkey is a Third World Country too than.

No, I've been in agreement on the Second World Issue. By my theory, both countries would be considered first world among their big economic cities like Istanbul, Ankara, Sarajevo....but second world throughout the rest of the countries.

[Centarfor9]

Life can be pretty difficult with a low value currency and a low GDP per capita, but then again, prices usually adjust to the performance of a countries general economy.
no your facts are wrong...our curency is good...i bet you it's pretty good when cmpared to yours...at least much better


They are also Football mad I assume? ;)
last time you got whopped btw

[Bosanac]

No, I've been in agreement on the Second World Issue. By my theory, both countries would be considered first world among their big economic cities like Istanbul, Ankara, Sarajevo....but second world throughout the rest of the countries.

I would actually say that the rest of our cities are a lot more developed than most of the rest of your cities. For example, your cities in far east.. People make houses out of dirt! That's something you will never see in Bosnia.

[serhat09]

no your facts are wrong...our curency is good...i bet you it's pretty good when cmpared to yours...at least much better


last time you got whopped btw

Do I sense Animosity?

1.00 EUR = 1.85307 TRY

1.00 EUR = 1.95583 BAM

You are seriously starting to speak out of your ass. Do you even look up anything before you callously assume something?

[Fenerliyim]

Fener said that.


Also, serhat, if we go by your theory. It gives me the right to say exactly this..


Fenerliyim, Turkey is a Third World Country

Like i said before, the eastern part of turkey could be counted as 3rd world but the Western part of turkey is 1st class.

Bosnia is not a first world country yet they are recovering, having 1 advanced city in a country does not make u first world.

U guys are being way toooooo sensitive.

[Centarfor9]

Do I sense Animosity?

1.00 EUR = 1.85307 TRY

1.00 EUR = 1.95583 BAM

You are seriously starting to speak out of your ass. Do you even look up anything before you callously assume something?
wow look at the difference :)

.1 yeah and that's what separates us????

btw you assumed first that we had a low currency and then i could return te favor with the same remarks (but i won't i'm nice)

[kanaryamerika]

ehem...

Rural poverty in Bosnia and Herzegovina

The 1992-1995 war transformed Bosnia-Herzegovina from a medium-income country within the former Federal Republic of Yugoslavia to a poor country. It caused the loss of 100,000 - 250,000 lives and displaced nearly half the country’s pre-war population of 4.4 million. War damage is estimated at more than US$100 billion.

Despite the success of post-conflict rebuilding, the economy has not returned to its pre-war level. The country is now one of the poorest in Europe, yet the poverty situation in Bosnia is unique. Acute widespread poverty and high unemployment are a relatively recent phenomenon. Most Bosnians are literate and many are well educated. At present about 19.5 per cent of the population is poor and suffers serious shortages in almost all aspects of welfare. A further 30 per cent of the population is vulnerable to poverty in the event of an income shock. Many lack access to basic services such as safe drinking water.

The collapse of the former socialist system and the war that followed led to physical and socio-economic devastation and loss of employment. Rural people fled to urban areas for security and survival. When the war ended many returned to the countryside and to subsistence farming to escape poverty. At present about half of the rural population relies on agriculture for a livelihood. However, the lack of employment opportunities in rural areas is hindering economic revival and could lead to another exodus to cities and towns.

Who and where are Bosnia-Herzegovina’s rural poor people?

Poverty is widespread throughout the country but is more acute in rural regions, especially former front-line areas.

Women have been particularly affected by the breakdown of social cohesion and the downward spiral into poverty. Since the war, the number of households headed by women has increased to one in four. These households are at greater risk of poverty. Women lack access to land, skills training, finances and equipment. They are often denied participation in political decision-making even though they often assume responsibility for the survival of the family. Women make up only 35 per cent of employed Bosnians, and women who are employed face discrimination and receive lower wages.

Since the end of the war, Bosnia has become a country of transit and destination for women from eastern and central European countries who are forced or deceived into prostitution. Many vulnerable women and girls have been easy prey for those who traffic in women from these countries.

Why are Bosnia-Herzegovina’s rural people poor?

The widespread poverty in Bosnia-Herzegovina is largely an outcome of the war and the difficult transition of a former communist state to a market economy. The four-year war caused extensive damage and led to high unemployment. Farmers lost 50 to 60 per cent of their assets and 90 per cent of their livestock. Buildings were ruined and water and electrical power facilities destroyed.

Immediate reconstruction efforts after the war focused largely on urban areas. Despite the fact that many turned to farming to make a living after the war, in 2005 only half of the arable land was under cultivation, often because state-owned land was awaiting privatization or because most of the arable land is poorly irrigated, lacks flood protection or is infested with land mines.

There are other factors that contribute to rural poverty. Bosnia-Herzegovina has a limited resource base. Because of the mountainous topography and shallow soils, good agricultural land is scarce. The former Federal Republic of Yugoslavia had long neglected the smallholder farming sector. Farm holdings are limited, productivity levels are low and incomes from most farms are meagre. Although dairy farming is the main enterprise, the average number of dairy cows per farm is about two. At present most farmers are subsistence-oriented. The recovery of agriculture has been hindered by poor infrastructure, lack of access to support services and finance, and inadequate linkages to processing industries and markets.

Source: IFAD

[Centarfor9]

Like i said before, the eastern part of turkey could be counted as 3rd world but the Western part of turkey is 1st class.

Bosnia is not a first world country yet they are recovering, having 1 advanced city in a country does not make u first world.

U guys are being way toooooo sensitive.
1 advanced city...nice

:lol:

[serhat09]

Like listen to the both of you, you first assume that I make some bold statement like Bosnia doesn't have Running Water, when I clearly didn't say that.

You both boldly assume that I have called Bosnia a Third World Country, when in fact I was just proving you guys wrong based on Factual Data on your Countries current Economic Activity, which is the biggest indicator of a Countries status in the world.

Now you are telling me the currency is stronger? The nominal Levels Speak for themselves, if anything they are the same.

Your inflation rate went up bloody 300% in one year (2005-2006)!! Did you even know that?!

Here is your inflation rate change in the last 4 years

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9232/untitledvn2.jpg

Truth hurts doesn't it. I'm done talking about this. You can't even have a proper discussion before you twist every word out of my mouth.

[Bosanac]

Like i said before, the eastern part of turkey could be counted as 3rd world but the Western part of turkey is 1st class.

Bosnia is not a first world country yet they are recovering, having 1 advanced city in a country does not make u first world.

U guys are being way toooooo sensitive.


No, we have 5 major cities.

Sarajevo, Mostar, Banja Luka, Zenica, and Tuzla. I'm not sure about Banja Luka though, I think that city now belongs to Serbia.. Huso?

I never said we were a first world country, I said we're not a third world country and you begged to differ.

[Centarfor9]

ehem...

Rural poverty in Bosnia and Herzegovina

The 1992-1995 war transformed Bosnia-Herzegovina from a medium-income country within the former Federal Republic of Yugoslavia to a poor country. It caused the loss of 100,000 - 250,000 lives and displaced nearly half the country’s pre-war population of 4.4 million. War damage is estimated at more than US$100 billion.

Despite the success of post-conflict rebuilding, the economy has not returned to its pre-war level. The country is now one of the poorest in Europe, yet the poverty situation in Bosnia is unique. Acute widespread poverty and high unemployment are a relatively recent phenomenon. Most Bosnians are literate and many are well educated. At present about 19.5 per cent of the population is poor and suffers serious shortages in almost all aspects of welfare. A further 30 per cent of the population is vulnerable to poverty in the event of an income shock. Many lack access to basic services such as safe drinking water.

The collapse of the former socialist system and the war that followed led to physical and socio-economic devastation and loss of employment. Rural people fled to urban areas for security and survival. When the war ended many returned to the countryside and to subsistence farming to escape poverty. At present about half of the rural population relies on agriculture for a livelihood. However, the lack of employment opportunities in rural areas is hindering economic revival and could lead to another exodus to cities and towns.

Who and where are Bosnia-Herzegovina’s rural poor people?

Poverty is widespread throughout the country but is more acute in rural regions, especially former front-line areas.

Women have been particularly affected by the breakdown of social cohesion and the downward spiral into poverty. Since the war, the number of households headed by women has increased to one in four. These households are at greater risk of poverty. Women lack access to land, skills training, finances and equipment. They are often denied participation in political decision-making even though they often assume responsibility for the survival of the family. Women make up only 35 per cent of employed Bosnians, and women who are employed face discrimination and receive lower wages.

Since the end of the war, Bosnia has become a country of transit and destination for women from eastern and central European countries who are forced or deceived into prostitution. Many vulnerable women and girls have been easy prey for those who traffic in women from these countries.

Why are Bosnia-Herzegovina’s rural people poor?

The widespread poverty in Bosnia-Herzegovina is largely an outcome of the war and the difficult transition of a former communist state to a market economy. The four-year war caused extensive damage and led to high unemployment. Farmers lost 50 to 60 per cent of their assets and 90 per cent of their livestock. Buildings were ruined and water and electrical power facilities destroyed.

Immediate reconstruction efforts after the war focused largely on urban areas. Despite the fact that many turned to farming to make a living after the war, in 2005 only half of the arable land was under cultivation, often because state-owned land was awaiting privatization or because most of the arable land is poorly irrigated, lacks flood protection or is infested with land mines.

There are other factors that contribute to rural poverty. Bosnia-Herzegovina has a limited resource base. Because of the mountainous topography and shallow soils, good agricultural land is scarce. The former Federal Republic of Yugoslavia had long neglected the smallholder farming sector. Farm holdings are limited, productivity levels are low and incomes from most farms are meagre. Although dairy farming is the main enterprise, the average number of dairy cows per farm is about two. At present most farmers are subsistence-oriented. The recovery of agriculture has been hindered by poor infrastructure, lack of access to support services and finance, and inadequate linkages to processing industries and markets.

Source: IFAD
and?

are we a third world country then?

[Fenerliyim]

Do I sense Animosity?

1.00 EUR = 1.85307 TRY

1.00 EUR = 1.95583 BAM

You are seriously starting to speak out of your ass. Do you even look up anything before you callously assume something?

lol dont mind stace he gots something against turks for some reason. Only bosnian who actually despises turks in this forum.

BTW stace u beat us at a friendly in 2000, check our friendly record we lose all the time in friendlies. But when it comes to real competition we demolish our competition like Greece 4-1

[serhat09]

wow look at the difference :)

.1 yeah and that's what separates us????

btw you assumed first that we had a low currency and then i could return te favor with the same remarks (but i won't i'm nice)

No I assumed your inflation was high, which I was correct on. Inflation and Currency aren't the same thing, although they are determinants of each other.

Just for the Record, Turkey's currency is "low" and the fact that it is stronger to the Euro than the Bosnian Currency just goes to show that yours can also be considered "Low"

and that's ok, I'll be nice to, and not remind you what you said of your currency compared to the Turkish Lira in your previous post. It's there for everyone to read.

[Bosanac]

Like listen to the both of you, you first assume that I make some bold statement like Bosnia doesn't have Running Water, when I clearly didn't say that.

You both boldly assume that I have called Bosnia a Third World Country, when in fact I was just proving you guys wrong based on Factual Data on your Countries current Economic Activity, which is the biggest indicator of a Countries status in the world.

Now you are telling me the currency is stronger? The nominal Levels Speak for themselves, if anything they are the same.

Your inflation rate went up bloody 300% in one year (2005-2006)!! Did you even know that?!

Here is your inflation rate change in the last 4 years

Truth hurts doesn't it. I'm done talking about this. You can't even have a proper discussion before you twist every word out of my mouth.

Nope, serhat, I never said that you said Bosnia is a third world country. Read my reply to you, and please.. 'don't twist every word out of my mouth'.

[Centarfor9]

Like listen to the both of you, you first assume that I make some bold statement like Bosnia doesn't have Running Water, when I clearly didn't say that.

You both boldly assume that I have called Bosnia a Third World Country, when in fact I was just proving you guys wrong based on Factual Data on your Countries current Economic Activity, which is the biggest indicator of a Countries status in the world.

Now you are telling me the currency is stronger? The nominal Levels Speak for themselves, if anything they are the same.

Your inflation rate went up bloody 300% in one year (2005-2006)!! Did you even know that?!

Here is your inflation rate change in the last 4 years

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9232/untitledvn2.jpg

Truth hurts doesn't it. I'm done talking about this. You can't even have a proper discussion before you twist every word out of my mouth.

what's our inlation rate number? :smoking:

what is yours? :sad:

show it (i ain't looking at FAID)

HUSO knows :smoking:


our inflation rates were so low previous years that a increase would show it high in precentages...there has been huge spending by government to help our infrastructure...hence a jump

despite that jump we beat you (check FIAD)

[serhat09]

I know man, I now realize how clueless these people are about Bosnia.


This was in response to the quote


we are nothing like that

running water

omg...

Which was in response to my Eritrea comment

Therefore, your agreement with him only solidifies the statement made.

[Fenerliyim]

and?

are we a third world country then?

no just not a first world country

[kanaryamerika]

No, just adding some random facts to the conversation taht either side can use. Consider me a referee.:lol:

in my opinion it is silly to call either Turkey or Bosnia a third world country, and it seems no one is really doing that here anyway.

and?

are we a third world country then?

[serhat09]

what's our inlation rate number? :smoking:

what is yours? :sad:

show it (i ain't looking at FAID)

HUSO knows :smoking:


our inflation rates were so low previous years that a increase would show it high in precentages...there has been huge spending by government to help our infrastructure...hence a jump

despite that jump we beat you (check FIAD)

Again you were the one that told me that YOUR Currency was stronger than the Turkish one, which it is not when faced vs. the Euro. I just had to show that once again an assumption from you, was incorrect.

Both countries inflations are awful. 4% isn't good just so you know, and the fact that it shot up 300% within a year can be considered Hyperinflation. Just so you know, a quick Definition on hyperinflation courtesy Wikipedia "hyperinflation is inflation that is "out of control", a condition in which prices increase rapidly as a currency loses its value."


It's impossible to talk Economics with someone who has no idea what Economics is about. Really it's difficult. It's like talking to an Ice Hockey fan about Cricket.

[Centarfor9]

No I assumed your inflation was high, which I was correct on. Inflation and Currency aren't the same thing, although they are determinants of each other.

Just for the Record, Turkey's currency is "low" and the fact that it is stronger to the Euro than the Bosnian Currency just goes to show that yours can also be considered "Low"

and that's ok, I'll be nice to, and not remind you what you said of your currency compared to the Turkish Lira in your previous post. It's there for everyone to read.
but Turkey's currency is only .1 remember that

also we beat lot of countries in the world when it comes to that (i didn't check FIAD)

[Bosanac]

This was in response to the quote



Which was in response to my Eritrea comment

Therefore, your agreement with him only solidifies the statement made.

You made a wrong assumption there, but anyway.. It's irrelevant.

[kanaryamerika]

There are very few "first world" countries and no, neither Turkey or bosnia is one of them. And so what?

[serhat09]

No, just adding some random facts to the conversation taht either side can use. Consider me a referee.:lol:

in my opinion it is silly to call either Turkey or Bosnia a third world country, and it seems no one is really doing that here anyway.

exactly

[Centarfor9]

Again you were the one that told me that YOUR Currency was stronger than the Turkish one, which it is not when faced vs. the Euro. I just had to show that once again an assumption from you, was incorrect.

Both countries inflations are awful. 4% isn't good just so you know, and the fact that it shot up 300% within a year can be considered Hyperinflation.

It's impossible to talk Economics with someone who has no idea what Economics is about. Really it's difficult. It's like talking to an Ice Hockey fan about Cricket.
yopu are the one who said our currecy was low where your currency is .1 bigger (i don't use FIAD)

lets present the inflation rates (shall we):
Turkey: 9.8% (2006 est.)

and

Bosnia: 8.2% (2006 est.)

we better there

[serhat09]

but Turkey's currency is only .1 remember that

also we beat lot of countries in the world when it comes to that (i didn't check FIAD)

Ugh, you can't compare currencies in the world to each other. There is no world standard to compare it to!

That's why people compare inflation, gdp per capita, total gdp, and gnp to determine a markets strength, not its currency.

[kanaryamerika]

Looks like we couls all be wrong... some do consider eastern europe and Turkey part of the "first world" countries. Again though, so what?

From Wikipedia...

n general however there is a consensus that the West includes at least Western Europe, the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.[1] In other definitions, Eastern Europe, Latin America, Turkey, and/or Israel are often included, as their cultures are closely linked. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Hong Kong are sometimes defined as Western because of their high living standards and their social, economical and political structure.

[Centarfor9]

Ugh, you can't compare currencies in the world to each other. There is no world standard to compare it to!

That's why people compare inflation, gdp per capita, total gdp, and gnp to determine a markets strength, not its currency.

then don't bring it up and we have better inflation rate then you

and explanation:
Why you see the 300% increase in inflation is because our government spend a lot to invest in capital. In 2005 our inflation rate was 1.4% and now is 8.2%.

and you can't compare our total GDP since we are a lot smaller country and our output will not be that high

[kanaryamerika]

What's the point of this conversation?

[serhat09]

yopu are the one who said our currecy was low where your currency is .1 bigger (i don't use FIAD)

lets present the inflation rates (shall we):
Turkey: 9.8% (2006 est.)

and

Bosnia: 8.2% (2006 est.)

we better there

Your currency is low!! lmao. I cannot believe this guy. Your currency has a low rating to the Euro. It doesn't make a difference if Turkey's is .1 stronger or not, they are both low!. You started the whole "Our currency is stronger than yours" thing. I mentioned low currency, not to start an argument, but an assumption with regards to your economic foundations.

Along with all your other assumptions, your assumption of thinking your Currency was stronger than the Turkish one was wrong, and I just showed you why it was wrong.

8.2% inflation and 9.8% inflation is terrible, for both countries. I did not once say that Turkey's inflation is better. Wow. :faint2: These are all cases to the cause of determining World "Ranks" for countries. Turkey is likely to fall under the same category as Bosnia in that respect. Way to defensive guys...way to defensive.

[Bosanac]

No, just adding some random facts to the conversation taht either side can use. Consider me a referee. :lol:

in my opinion it is silly to call either Turkey or Bosnia a third world country, and it seems no one is really doing that here anyway.

This is how this discussion was started, it started with Fenerliyim calling Bosnia a Third World Country.


PS: Saying that Bosnia is a Third World Country is an insult

who said bosnia was one. And to my knowledge that means "Devolping nation" which may be true in Bosnia's case

[Centarfor9]

Your currency is low!! lmao. I cannot believe this guy. Your currency has a low rating to the Euro. It doesn't make a difference if Turkey's is .1 stronger or not, they are both low!. You started the whole "Our currency is stronger than yours" thing. I mentioned low currency, not to start an argument, but an assumption with regards to your economic foundations.

Along with all your other assumptions, your assumption of thinking your Currency was stronger than the Turkish one was wrong, and I just showed you why it was wrong.

8.2% inflation and 9.8% inflation is terrible, for both countries. I did not once say that Turkey's inflation is better. Wow. :faint2: These are all cases to the cause of determining World "Ranks" for countries. Turkey is likely to fall under the same category as Bosnia in that respect. Way to defensive guys...way to defensive.

like i said

Why you see the 300% increase in inflation is because our government spend a lot to invest in capital. In 2005 our inflation rate was 1.4% and now is 8.2%.

[serhat09]

then don't bring it up and we have better inflation rate then you

and explanation:
Why you see the 300% increase in inflation is because our government spend a lot to invest in capital. In 2005 our inflation rate was 1.4% and now is 8.2%.

and you can't compare our total GDP since we are a lot smaller country and our output will not be that high

That's why I said GDP per Capita is the greatest indicator of all. Go back and read Carefully, you are constantly messing that up.

Inflation is caused by yes, you are right, an expansionary monetary policy which is what Bosnia is undergoing. But Hyperinflation is an indicator that they are spending beyond any reasonable means. That is bad....


ok, i'm out lol. I can't discuss this further

[kanaryamerika]

This is how this discussion was started, it started with Fenerliyim calling Bosnia a Third World Country.

I don't see him call Bosnia a third world country in your quote but I'll take your word for it. If he did so, he probably did it in an innocent misuse of the term (as he seems to be saying when he said he meant a developing country) which is true from a factual perspective.

[Centarfor9]

That's why I said GDP per Capita is the greatest indicator of all. Go back and read Carefully, you are constantly messing that up.


Inflation is caused by yes, you are right, an expansionary monetary policy which is what Bosnia is undergoing. But Hyperinflation is an indicator that they are spending beyond any reasonable means. That is bad....
we don't have hyperinflation...laughs*

hyperinlation is something Germany had after WWII

this is different, but i agree they are overspending, but the inlation will be higher because there are massive projects to be compleatd in Bosnia this year

our inflation will most likely increase but our GDP per capita will increase do the the # of jobs that will be created

our GDP per capita is low but since we can buy a lot with a buck we don't need 55,000 GDP per capita



ok, i'm out lol. I can't discuss this further
you did well

my conclusion for you
-no bosnia does not have hyperinflation (yeah 300% is huge and might make you think that but there are other factors involved with hyperinflation which are not present here (e.g. our currency is stable with hyper inflation we would be at 1:5000 by now))

[Fanbace]

If Bosnia is so great then why don't you singing them go and live there instead of singing its praises from the USA. My guess is because what you do is easy and your parents fled there because it is nowhere near as nice a place as you would like it to be.

[Centarfor9]

If Bosnia is so great then why don't you singing them go and live there instead of singing its praises from the USA. My guess is because what you do is easy and your parents fled there because it is nowhere near as nice a place as you would like it to be.
wrong guess...but nice try

but some people have fled bosnia due to war (2 million or so...most have returned)

[kanaryamerika]

So in the end, who's is bigger?

[Centarfor9]

So in the end, who's is bigger?
God is the biggest! :)

[Sarajbahçe]

ok guys
bosnia is not as rich as we were before
and we are not poor like you suggest
but we are still devestated from the war
however
lots and lots of tourists are visiting bosnia for the magnificent historic sites such as the pyramids, sarajavo the assassination of archduke franz (start of ww1) and so on
i read on a website like the eight wonders of bosnia that will in the next 15 years or so will be bosnia's main thing for boosting the economy
because more and more tourists are starting to visit our country for the history and europe's first pyramid
all this will boost our economy
as of now we are still rebuilding
but dont you all worry my friends
bosnia will be pretty rich again ;)

[kanaryamerika]

God is the biggest! :)

Boo...:sad: There is no god.:evil:

[kanaryamerika]

ok guys
bosnia is not as rich as we were before
and we are not poor like you suggest
but we are still devestated from the war
however
lots and lots of tourists are visiting bosnia for the magnificent historic sites such as the pyramids, sarajavo the assassination of archduke franz (start of ww1) and so on
i read on a website like the eight wonders of bosnia that will in the next 15 years or so will be bosnia's main thing for boosting the economy
because more and more tourists are starting to visit our country for the history and europe's first pyramid
all this will boost our economy
as of now we are still rebuilding
but dont you all worry my friends
bosnia will be pretty rich again ;)

tell me more about this pyramid.

[Sarajbahçe]

europe's first pyramid
believed to be 8,000-12,000 years old
built by illyrians
located in visoko, bosnia
they are still working on the pyramids and they have found some writings on stones and all this that date back to those years
they are very identical to the pyramids found in latin america
is under a hill
http://farshores.org/a06epyr2.gif

[Sarajbahçe]

plusssss
believed to be bigger than the biggest one in egypt ;)

[kanaryamerika]

wow this is very cool. did not know about this. thanks, i'll look it up!

[Sarajbahçe]

^ no problem
i will try to find the website that says of how tourism will boost our economy
i will put it up here once i find it again
and yeah if you search on google for bosnian pyramids
they have no more and more pictures than they started before

[poutismalakas]

europe's first pyramid
believed to be 8,000-12,000 years old
built by illyrians
located in visoko, bosnia
they are still working on the pyramids and they have found some writings on stones and all this that date back to those years
they are very identical to the pyramids found in latin america
is under a hill
http://farshores.org/a06epyr2.gif
PLEASE DON'T bring this up AGAIN! ;) or else your going to cry like last time :D

Also how can you say writings dateing to 10000bc WHEN writing WAS NOT invented until 3500bc in Summeria!!!!!

[Centarfor9]

europe's first pyramid
believed to be 8,000-12,000 years old
built by illyrians
located in visoko, bosnia
they are still working on the pyramids and they have found some writings on stones and all this that date back to those years
they are very identical to the pyramids found in latin america
is under a hill
http://farshores.org/a06epyr2.gif
dude don't believe that nonsense

now real artifacts have been found Illyrian ships older than 2,000 years in Hutovo Blato

[poutismalakas]

hey where are those spheres!? :D

[Bosnian Unit]

Turkey, a 90% Muslim nation..........students cant wear hijab in schools.We have a lot of female students mostly in Mostar and Sarajevo going in universitys becouse they CANT GO TO SCHOOL IN TURKEY IF THEY DONT WANT TO GET RID OF HIJAB.

Not even USA have law like that:boo: . Btw just European part of Turkey is developed, and few other tourist popular part of country. Rest is not better then in Bosnia. But Bosnia was 15 years ago in war and Turkey was not.
Forget stupid CIA,WORLD BANK statistic........They say 30-40% of population in BIH is unemployed. But they dont know that we have huge so called GREY ECONOMY....Those private companys they pay you cash.....and i would say unemployment in BIH is somewhere from 15-10%.....

They also dont know that almost each family in BIH have family members in diaspora and they send them money :). They also dont know that each year Bosnians come back and visit Bosnia, and each year they bring in 2 billion KM...around 1.5 billion Euros.

This was mostly about life in BIH........just like when they say Chinese lives under 10 dollars a day.........sounds terrible, but Western people dont know that with those 10 dollars a day they can live just like they would for 100 lets say.

List by the International Monetary Fund
GDP per capita

73 Turkey 7,950
95 Bosnia and Herzegovina 6,035

Keep in mind we was in war 15 yrs ago, Turkey was NOT.

There is also some countries behaind us, who didnt suffer like we did.

98 Albania 5,405
99 Serbia 5,348
107 Morocco 4,503
108 Indonesia 4,459
111 Egypt 4,317

[Saraj Fanático]

.........................

[Saraj Fanático]

Oh damn it I forgot to minimize the pics again. Sorry bout that! :lol:

[poutismalakas]

due USE SMALLER PICS OR ELSE IM EDITING THEM!

[kanaryamerika]

Turkey, a 90% Muslim nation..........students cant wear hijab in schools.We have a lot of female students mostly in Mostar and Sarajevo going in universitys becouse they CANT GO TO SCHOOL IN TURKEY IF THEY DONT WANT TO GET RID OF HIJAB.

Not even USA have law like that:boo: . Btw just European part of Turkey is developed, and few other tourist popular part of country. Rest is not better then in Bosnia. But Bosnia was 15 years ago in war and Turkey was not.
Forget stupid CIA,WORLD BANK statistic........They say 30-40% of population in BIH is unemployed. But they dont know that we have huge so called GREY ECONOMY....Those private companys they pay you cash.....and i would say unemployment in BIH is somewhere from 15-10%.....

They also dont know that almost each family in BIH have family members in diaspora and they send them money :). They also dont know that each year Bosnians come back and visit Bosnia, and each year they bring in 2 billion KM...around 1.5 billion Euros.

This was mostly about life in BIH........just like when they say Chinese lives under 10 dollars a day.........sounds terrible, but Western people dont know that with those 10 dollars a day they can live just like they would for 100 lets say.

List by the International Monetary Fund
GDP per capita

73 Turkey 7,950
95 Bosnia and Herzegovina 6,035

Keep in mind we was in war 15 yrs ago, Turkey was NOT.

There is also some countries behaind us, who didnt suffer like we did.

98 Albania 5,405
99 Serbia 5,348
107 Morocco 4,503
108 Indonesia 4,459
111 Egypt 4,317


Actually Turkey was in what could easily have been clasified as a civil war with the PKK. Over 10 years close to 100,000 people died. It may not have been officially called a "war" thanks to the tight liips in the government, but as any one who has been to the east during those times, it was a full out war. But again, either way, it seems silly to talk about who has the stringest economy. Who cares?

[Saraj Fanático]

due USE SMALLER PICS OR ELSE IM EDITING THEM!

yeah edit them for me. I just forgot to minimize them.

[Sarajbahçe]

dude don't believe that nonsense

now real artifacts have been found Illyrian ships older than 2,000 years in Hutovo Blato
uhmmm so all this is wrong
lol so bosnia doesnt have a pyramid :lol:
so what are you saying then

[Saraj Fanático]

I don't believe BiH has a pyramid. It just doesn't look real. I have pic from there and it doesn't look anything spectacular, hell it has no trace of a pyramid..

[Fenerliyim]

Turkey, a 90% Muslim nation..........students cant wear hijab in schools.We have a lot of female students mostly in Mostar and Sarajevo going in universitys becouse they CANT GO TO SCHOOL IN TURKEY IF THEY DONT WANT TO GET RID OF HIJAB.

Not even USA have law like that:boo: . Btw just European part of Turkey is developed, and few other tourist popular part of country. Rest is not better then in Bosnia. But Bosnia was 15 years ago in war and Turkey was not.
Forget stupid CIA,WORLD BANK statistic........They say 30-40% of population in BIH is unemployed. But they dont know that we have huge so called GREY ECONOMY....Those private companys they pay you cash.....and i would say unemployment in BIH is somewhere from 15-10%.....

They also dont know that almost each family in BIH have family members in diaspora and they send them money :). They also dont know that each year Bosnians come back and visit Bosnia, and each year they bring in 2 billion KM...around 1.5 billion Euros.

This was mostly about life in BIH........just like when they say Chinese lives under 10 dollars a day.........sounds terrible, but Western people dont know that with those 10 dollars a day they can live just like they would for 100 lets say.

List by the International Monetary Fund
GDP per capita

73 Turkey 7,950
95 Bosnia and Herzegovina 6,035

Keep in mind we was in war 15 yrs ago, Turkey was NOT.

There is also some countries behaind us, who didnt suffer like we did.

98 Albania 5,405
99 Serbia 5,348
107 Morocco 4,503
108 Indonesia 4,459
111 Egypt 4,317

So ur saying only half of istanbul is developed and the rest of turkey is not. Turkey is pretty much developed till Gaziantep, then comes the poor part of turkey due to lack of investment.

Last year turkey brought in 18.5 billion $$$ from tourism. and it increases every year. We were ranked 8th in the world.

lol u tell me to forget statistics and just believe ur numbers which u make up? 45.5% unemployment rate based on official records, thats half ur country bro.

and remember gdp per person bosnia has 4.5 million people, Turkey has 70+ million people. Huge difference.

And like u said living standards are much less than the US and other countries but thats for like shelter, food, water. Wat about all the nice luxeries in life, Bosnians cant afford that with their income.

[kanaryamerika]

I don't believe BiH has a pyramid. It just doesn't look real. I have pic from there and it doesn't look anything spectacular, hell it has no trace of a pyramid..

so there's no pyramid there? Why did he say this then? there's obviously a story behind this since you know of it.

[Sarajbahçe]

ok f.c. sarajevo
explain the pictures then
the bosnian government built a "STRUCTURE" beneath the hills of visoko and spread this rumour that there is a pyramid
common give me a break lol
you know thats a lie
there is a pyramid
http://www.worldtopix.com/bosnianews25may.html

[Sarajbahçe]

http://www.worldtopix.com/bosnianews17may.html
http://www.worldtopix.com/bosnianews10may.html
ALL READ THIS

[Sarajbahçe]

^ bosnian pyramids do exist
and i dont care what anyone says
just because some few people say that they dont exist is no reason to say that the pyramids do not exist
how can you explain the evidence they have discovered, the writings...

[Centarfor9]

dude those are not pyramids sorry i need scientific proof (not some fantasy) :)


as about turkey vs. bosnia thing

we are not that bad Fenerliyim (we are not a third world country) we can be compared to you (despite the war we were in)

[kanaryamerika]

I don't get it, do the pyramids exist or not? If they do it seems like it would be easy to say they do. S11, just give me the name and location and I will look it up. Seems like if they did exist the world would have heard of this before. Hard to keep something like this secret.

[Centarfor9]

And like u said living standards are much less than the US and other countries but thats for like shelter, food, water. Wat about all the nice luxeries in life, Bosnians cant afford that with their income.
bosnian homes are 100000% better

these shacks here in the US are horible (most of the country is like that unless you live in hollywood)

you should know that i have been to NJ

plus bosnia's uneployment is not 45.5%...p.s. don't make me laugh

[Fenerliyim]

dude those are not pyramids sorry i need scientific proof (not some fantasy) :)


as about turkey vs. bosnia thing

we are not that bad Fenerliyim (we are not a third world country) we can be compared to you (despite the war we were in)

I have not even once said bosnia is a third world country. I just said they were not 1st world.

U guys have to read posts more carefully and not twists words.

Bosnia is still developing, they are not up their yet, like i said u guy went through a war in recent, that is a huge setback.

[Bosnian Unit]

Some pictures from ''3RD WORLD BOSNIA''

Mostar
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/4/43/Mostar_night.jpg

http://www.intheknowtraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/mostar-bridge.jpg

http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/mostar/mostar_aerial.gif

Sarajevo
http://zvone.jubito.info/Crometeo/Fotografije/Sarajevo%2016-19%202007/36.jpg

http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/4706/35qh2.jpg

http://zvone.jubito.info/Crometeo/Fotografije/Sarajevo%2016-19%202007/41.jpg

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4606/08lb3.jpg

http://zvone.jubito.info/Crometeo/Fotografije/Sarajevo%2016-19%202007/47.jpg

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/9880/unis1we4.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2269/fasade9wt8.jpg

http://www.escobar-sarajevo.com/slike/basta/04.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/117/299556954_8796511b21_o.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/GRAS3.jpg

http://www.bosna.unas.cz/bosna06/LS_sarajevo%20(7).JPG

http://www.bosna.unas.cz/bosna06/vrelo_05.jpg

If interested in more, you can always see it in Away from Football Bosnian Forum

[Bosanac]

Kanaryamerica, I firmly believe the pyramids exist. They just weren't discovered untill recently. Seriously, who would've thought there were pyramids in Europe? Also, the pyramids, if real, would challenge history books to be rewritten.

They found many evidence of that prooves the existance of the pyramids, don't believe sceptics like Huso :).

Many Geology professors and experts confirm the existance of the pyramids. Would you rather believe what somebody's opinion here, or a Geology expert?

---
Thank you for those awesome pictures, Bosnian Unit. :)


PS: Poutismalakas, don't delete these pictures as their relevancy to the discussion is quite obvious.

[Fenerliyim]

bosnian homes are 100000% better

these shacks here in the US are horible (most of the country is like that unless you live in hollywood)

you should know that i have been to NJ

plus bosnia's uneployment is not 45.5%...p.s. don't make me laugh

If u compare a shack, ofcourse bosnian homes are better, but compare the best houses here to bosnia and u wont even come close. I find it kinda funny u think the US is poor. I live in NJ and in bergen county which is in top 10 of richest counties in the US. Things are great in New jersey, if u go to the slums of course they are disgusting. Come to the nice parts.

According to official sources it is 45.5%.

[Centarfor9]

If u compare a shack, ofcourse bosnian homes are better, but compare the best houses here to bosnia and u wont even come close. I find it kinda funny u think the US is poor. I live in NJ and in bergen county which is in top 10 of richest counties in the US. Things are great in New jersey, if u go to the slums of course they are disgusting. Come to the nice parts.
i'm comparing avarage to avarage

not the high end homes to high end or low end to low end homes


According to official sources it is 45.5%.
show me (use recent data not from 1992-2000)

[Bosanac]

If u compare a shack, ofcourse bosnian homes are better, but compare the best houses here to bosnia and u wont even come close. I find it kinda funny u think the US is poor. I live in NJ and in bergen county which is in top 10 of richest counties in the US. Things are great in New jersey, if u go to the slums of course they are disgusting. Come to the nice parts.

According to official sources it is 45.5%.


Most people in Bosnia work under the table. Official sources lists them as unemployed, when in reality they probably earn more then the people listed as employed.

I would say that current unemployment percentage in Bosnia is less than 20%. You can go ahead and rely on your official sources to win this argument, but you know this to be true.

[Centarfor9]

I have not even once said bosnia is a third world country. I just said they were not 1st world.

U guys have to read posts more carefully and not twists words.

Bosnia is still developing, they are not up their yet, like i said u guy went through a war in recent, that is a huge setback.
somebody said it (not me)

but at least you can understand why we were insulted (original issue...you know what i mean)

[Centarfor9]

Most people in Bosnia work under the table. Official sources lists them as unemployed, when in reality they probably earn more then the people listed as employed.

I would say that current unemployment percentage in Bosnia is less than 20%. You can go ahead and rely on your official sources to win this argument, but you know this to be true.
even if the "gray" or "dark" economy is not counted we still don't have that high uneployment

if the gray economy was counted our GDP would more than double on the statistical charts

p.s. that's how most bosnians work

[Fenerliyim]

cia factbook

45.5% official rate; grey economy may reduce actual unemployment to 25-30% (31 December 2004 est

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bk.html

They even reduce some to grey economy

[Fenerliyim]

also ur GDP is $5,500 (2006 est.)

ours is $8,900 (2006 est.)

so ur previous facts are wrong

[Centarfor9]

cia factbook



https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bk.html

They even reduce some to grey economy
that's 2004! :)

why you use your facts from 2006 and ours from 2004??

[Centarfor9]

also ur GDP is $5,500 (2006 est.)

ours is $8,900 (2006 est.)

so ur previous facts are wrong
and what do those tell you???

check the PPP of a dollar in bosnia (considering those estimates are in dollars)

then you get a better understanding


also considering the PPP in your country you are not better off in your country

[Bosnian Unit]

http://www.muscet.com/slike/pansion/640x480/kuca.jpg

http://www.vranica.com.ba/images/Mahala-naselje.jpg

http://www.nezavisne.com/slike/ivanica-naselje-na-granici-.jpg

Btw....HOUSES or APARTMENTS here are much better im sure. During a war they use to burn them but walls still stand........grenade(whatever) use to hit them, but there was just a hole........those US type of houses where car go thru house :lol: ...come on.

There they just build cheap shit, and coasts a lot........each AVERAGE Bosnian house in US would be over 500.000 dollars.


One more thing, people build their own houses, they pay for it. They find the way............in US 80% of people just kind of rent house, yea they are owners or whatever but hmmm they are paying it a month, just like they drive all nice cars and call them their own but every month they pay for it.

Hmm capitalism, take it from the poor give it to the rich :boo:

In Bosnia we dont have none of that, what you have is yours 100%......no paymantes no stress..............FREEDOM BABY........I HAVE ***KING 100KM IM HAPPY ALL MONTH..........MORE THEN YOU WHO PROBABLY HAVE THOUSANDS ;)

[Centarfor9]

also ur GDP is $5,500 (2006 est.)

ours is $8,900 (2006 est.)

so ur previous facts are wrong
according to the International Monetary Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund) he was right about bosnia ours was over 6,000

the data IMF did not release GDP data for 2006 yet

[Fenerliyim]

that's 2004! :)

why you use your facts from 2006 and ours from 2004??

wat?????

i compared both our GDPs by 2006

u asked for a recent unemployment survey and that is the most recent. 2004 is the most recent for unemployment. U urself said anything after 2000 and 2004 is the most recent available so i have to use.

Find me a better source and i'll go by that.

[Fenerliyim]

according to the International Monetary Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund) he was right about bosnia ours was over 6,000

the data IMF did not release GDP data for 2006 yet

looks like it fell, so thats not a good sign.

[Fenerliyim]

Btw....HOUSES or APARTMENTS here are much better im sure. During a war they use to burn them but walls still stand........grenade(whatever) use to hit them, but there was just a hole........those US type of houses where car go thru house :lol: ...come on.

There they just build cheap shit, and coasts a lot........each AVERAGE Bosnian house in US would be over 500.000 dollars.


One more thing, people build their own houses, they pay for it. They find the way............in US 80% of people just kind of rent house, yea they are owners or whatever but hmmm they are paying it a month, just like they drive all nice cars and call them their own but every month they pay for it.

Hmm capitalism, take it from the poor give it to the rich :boo:

In Bosnia we dont have none of that, what you have is yours 100%......no paymantes no stress..............FREEDOM BABY........I HAVE ***KING 100KM IM HAPPY ALL MONTH..........MORE THEN YOU WHO PROBABLY HAVE THOUSANDS ;)

Where r ur sources bro? Stop throwing out random numbers like 500,000 and 80% .

CApitalism is great imo, the rich earn their money. Lol wat do u want communism, everybody gets equal share. Hell no, i get wats mine.

[Centarfor9]

looks like it fell, so thats not a good sign.
IMF didn't release data for 2006 so how did it fall???

Cia uses estimates there are numerous countries with same numbers. I tend to trust IMF more when it comes to economics! :)

i don't know but you might be right CIA might be good at economics (or so that is what you are trying to say)

[Sarajbahçe]

why does everyone care so much
we will resolve this in the games ahead
bosna-turkey
greece-bosna
:)

[Centarfor9]

wat?????

i compared both our GDPs by 2006

u asked for a recent unemployment survey and that is the most recent. 2004 is the most recent for unemployment. U urself said anything after 2000 and 2004 is the most recent available so i have to use.

Find me a better source and i'll go by that.

dude our unployment is not 45.5% that data is too old i would say our uneployment is more like 25% (which is bad but that doesn't make us a "third world country")

[Centarfor9]

why does everyone care so much
we will resolve this in the games ahead
bosna-turkey
greece-bosna
:)
but first we need to beat Norway again :smoking:

(news: bosnia will most likely have to replay the game against Norway)

[Sarajbahçe]

^nope
no way they can do that
when we played in serbia
serbs were hostile
threw flares at our fans
singing racist songs
did so much chaos
we obviously retaliated by taking off their seats
and sooo much more and all they got was no fans can come in the next game
if they give us a harsher penalty for not even hurting 1 norwegian in oslo
i will be soooo pissed

[Fenerliyim]

dude our unployment is not 45.5% that data is too old i would say our uneployment is more like 25% (which is bad but that doesn't make us a "third world country")

who said it did?

[Centarfor9]

^nope
no way they can do that
when we played in serbia
serbs were hostile
threw flares at our fans
singing racist songs
did so much chaos
we obviously retaliated by taking off their seats
and sooo much more and all they got was no fans can come in the next game
if they give us a harsher penalty for not even hurting 1 norwegian in oslo
i will be soooo pissed
you'll see we will get punished so bad

and it's all because BHF! :mad2:

[Sarajbahçe]

thats unfair
if we lost the norway game
i wouldnt care what we get haha
but i knew we would win so now i am disappointed they did that

SAVEZ NAPOLJE!

[Bosnian Unit]

Where r ur sources bro? Stop throwing out random numbers like 500,000 and 80% .

CApitalism is great imo, the rich earn their money. Lol wat do u want communism, everybody gets equal share. Hell no, i get wats mine.



Credit Card Industry Facts and Personal Debt Statistics

Credit Card Industry


The first widely accepted plastic charge card was issued in 1958 by American Express. The first general use credit card that allowed balances to be paid over time was the BankAmericard (which later changed its name to Visa in 1977), issued in 1959
There were 1.3 billion credit cards in circulation in the U.S. in 2004
The top 10 credit card issuers controlled 86% of the general card purpose credit card market share in 2005, up from 55% ten years earlier.
The credit card industry mailed over 6 billion credit card offers in 2005, an average of 6 offers per household per month
Average direct mail response rates for credit card banks decreased to an all time low of .28% in 2005, down from 0.4% in 2004 and 0.6% in 2003
The credit card industry took in $43 billion in fee income from late payment, over-limit and balance transfer fees in 2004, up from $39 billion in 2003
Late fee income alone totaled over $11 billion in 2005
78% of American households were deemed creditworthy by the credit card industry in 2004
44% of credit cards in circulation carried universal default provisions in 2004
General purpose credit cards represented 23.6% of the overall consumer spending volume in 2005, with cash falling to 13.7%.
With its acquisition of MBNA, Bank of America became the nation’s largest credit card issuer in 2006, followed by Chase and Citi.
In 2005, 85% of consumers surveyed considered rewards cards their primary card in wallet
There were 574 million Visa and MasterCard accounts in the U.S in 2004
American Consumers


The number of U.S households receiving a credit card offer each month increased to 71% in 2004, up from 69% in 2003
Total American consumer debt reached $2.2 trillion in 2005
Total American consumer debt first reached $1 trillion in 1994
Total revolving debt reached $805 billion in 2005
Total American household consumer debt averaged $11,840 in 2005
Total American consumer debt increased 41% between 1998 and 2004
The average amount financed for new car purchases was just over $26,000 in 2005
The average American household had over $7,000 in revolving debt in 2005
Average household credit card debt has increased 167% between 1990 and 2004
The average balance per open credit card was $4,617 in 2004
American households spent $412 billion in credit card charges in 2004
Revolving debt has increased 31% between 1999 and 2004
The average American had over seven payment cards in their wallet including credit card, retail store cards and bank debit cards in 2004
The average interest rate paid on credit cards was approximately 14.54% in 2005
Average household interest payments were $1,164 in 2004
The rate of personal savings in the United States dipped below 0% for the first time since the great depression in 2005, hitting negative .5%
Over 60% of Americans revolved a balance on their credit cards in 2005
45% of American cardholders were only making minimum payments in 2004, up from 42% who did so in 2003
37% paid more than the minimum payment but less than half of the full balance due in 2004 – down from 39% in 2003
17% paid more than half but less than the total balance due in 2004, down from 19% in 2003
39% paid their balance in full in 2004, down from 43% in 2003
Approximately 96% of Americans will have to retire financially dependent on the government, family or charity, according to a 2003 study
In 2004 the consumer debt to net worth ratio was 21%, the highest rate in 55 years
The ratio of consumer minimum payments to disposable income was 13.10% in 2004
The average household had $30,000 in unused credit lines in 2004
The credit card industry default rate (percentage of cardholders who don’t pay back what they owe) averaged approximately 5% in 2004
A typical credit card purchase is 12%-18% more than if cash was used (as of 2004)
As of 2004, 23% of Americans admitted to maxing out a credit card
As of 2004, 13% of Americans had been 30 days late paying credit card bills at least once in the last 12 months
As of 2004, 76% of Americans had at least one credit card
2.39 million U.S. households filed for bankruptcy in 2005, a 12.8% increase over 2004
The average credit card balance in 2005 would require over 13 years to pay off if only making minimum payments of 4% at an average interest rate of 14%
5% of Americans used a credit card to make their tax payment in 2004
30 million Americans, (40% of homeowners) refinanced their mortgages during the 3 years prior to Q3 2005, with over half applying the proceeds to eliminate credit card debt
Among middle class households, the average amount of credit card debt paid off with home equity loans was $12,000 (Q3 2005).
Seven out of 10 low- and middle-income households reported using their credit cards as a financial safety net, i.e. to pay for car repairs, rent or housing repairs and medical expenses, rather than relying on savings in 2005
According to a national survey, the most significant predictor of financial stress is if households rely on using credit cards to cover non-discretionary living expenses like rent, groceries and medical expenses (Q3 2005)
As of 2004, the number one cause of divorce is financial stress
Students


In 2004, 83% of undergraduate college students had at least one credit card in their name with an average outstanding balance of over $2,300
32% of students had 4 or more credit cards in 2004
As of 2004, the average graduate student had six credit cards and one in seven owes more than $15,000
In 2004, the average college student graduated with $16,500 in student loans, up 74% since 1997
In 2004, 65% of teens failed a financial literacy test according to the Jump$tart Coalition
Teens in the U.S. spent $175 billion in 2004
Seniors


In 2004, the average debt for Americans 65 and older was $4,000, up 89% in the past decade
In 2004, the average personal wealth of a 50 year old American was less than $40,000 including home equity
In 2004, most credit card debt of older Americans was driven by healthcare expenses and the increased cost of prescription medication
Identity Theft


Approximately 9.2 million Americans reported loss of credit card information in 2004
According to the Federal Trade Commission 42% of identity theft cases involved credit card fraud in 2004
According to a 2004 study, identity theft required an average of 600 hours of a victim’s personal time to remedy
Disclaimer: The sources for the above credit card industry and consumer statistics are wide, varied and obtained through internet research from websites or printed government sources in the public domain. Information on republishing with related attribution requirements and specific sources of data can be obtained by clicking on the Contact Us link below or at CreditCards.com/Publishing-Department.php. CreditCards.com has made every effort to ensure the accuracy of the statistical information presented but can not ensure complete accuracy of third party data and as such assumes no liability in its presentation or redistribution. These credit card industry facts and consumer statistics should be used as a general guide for information purposes only.




There you go..........great capitalism, wich just get you in debt more and more. How awesome is that :rolleyes: .

[Bosnian Unit]

Most of this stuff is from 2005............now its even worse thanx to the politics of your great worrior George Bush :lol: !

[Fenerliyim]

yes capitalisim is great, u can buy stuff u usually could not afford by getting stuff on credit and gradually paying it off. I love it.

[kanaryamerika]

The difference with capitalism is, you don't have to have a credit card, a fancy car, a nice house, etc, but if you want to, you sure can. Communism, etc does not allow that for you - what you can have is the same.

[Centarfor9]

also look at the savings rate in the united states (it's negative)

[Fenerliyim]

yet people in America live a much more comfortable and luxerious life than others.

[Centarfor9]

yet people in America live a much more comfortable and luxerious life than others.
i assume you are reffering to social welfare? economic term for that?

that is debatable? truly! if you look up the cost benifit analysis of the life of most americans you will find out that it is not clear picture

reffering to health, standard of living, happiness, values, ethics, morals, enviroment etc etc

if you are simply reffering about subjuctive terms "comfortable" and "luxurios"...problems: how do you meassure those and how do you define them...these terms are very subjective....if you change it to some economic value like social welfare then it can be discussed and compared to rest of the world through cost benifit analysis, framework analysis or some value analysis

[Bosnian Unit]

yet people in America live a much more comfortable and luxerious life than others.



Approximately 96% of Americans will have to retire financially dependent on the government, family or charity, according to a 2003 study.

So much about your great capilaism........and the ONLY reason why Joe lives better and luxerious (thanx to his credit cards) is becouse they kill people around the the world for that.


And if you are that rich, you would go back to Turkey if you feel right in your head.

But you know what it is.........you have house, you have car and everything, but all that is on CREDIT......but still somehow you think you are rich, while everbody in your familiy work to pay that off........but even that is not possible becouse....................(read the beginning of my post).

[poutismalakas]

Approximately 96% of Americans will have to retire financially dependent on the government, family or charity, according to a 2003 study.

So much about your great capilaism........and the ONLY reason why Joe lives better and luxerious (thanx to his credit cards) is becouse they kill people around the the world for that.


And if you are that rich, you would go back to Turkey if you feel right in your head.

But you know what it is.........you have house, you have car and everything, but all that is on CREDIT......but still somehow you think you are rich, while everbody in your familiy work to pay that off........but even that is not possible becouse....................(read the beginning of my post).




The problem is that since the 1980s people here in the states have using credit more and more! I for one try to avoid credit cards but you need credit to buy a house here!

[Centarfor9]

^ which leads to overvalued, overpriced and highly inflated housing...i expect that to be a problem in years to come...with regards to US economy

[kanaryamerika]

Again, all the above is true, but it's not capitalism per se that caises all the problems, it's irresponsible people. If people were responsible, capitalism can provide a lot of great benefits and access. furthermore, there really isn't an alternate method of economic system right now in the world. Bosnia is also a capitalistic country whether you admit it or not. the only real viable alternative is communism in China, and even that is becoming a hybrid of capitalism and communism. What exactly do you opponents of capitalism suggest? The former Yugoslavia was a communist country wasn't it? How did that go? (I'm asking this honestly, don't mmisread this please).

Were people happy in USSR? Are people happy in China? in the US? The problem with communism is, people are corrupt no matter how "pure" they seem.

[Centarfor9]

Again, all the above is true, but it's not capitalism per se that caises all the problems, it's irresponsible people. If people were responsible, capitalism can provide a lot of great benefits and access. furthermore, there really isn't an alternate method of economic system right now in the world. Bosnia is also a capitalistic country whether you admit it or not. the only real viable alternative is communism in China, and even that is becoming a hybrid of capitalism and communism. What exactly do you opponents of capitalism suggest? The former Yugoslavia was a communist country wasn't it? How did that go? (I'm asking this honestly, don't mmisread this please).

Were people happy in USSR? Are people happy in China? in the US? The problem with communism is, people are corrupt no matter how "pure" they seem.

i don't agree with that assumption!

what makes you believe there are only those two "viable" options??

Bosnia is moving toward market economy and there is currently a process of privatization but i wouldn't categorize Bosnia's system as capitalism.

[kanaryamerika]

i don't agree with that assumption!

what makes you believe there are only those two "viable" options??

Bosnia is moving toward market economy and there is currently a process of privatization but i wouldn't categorize Bosnia's system as capitalism.

I don't mean to have only two options but those seem to be the only two main ones that are out there. Bosnia is following a western European ideology for a free market. And if it isn't a full capitalistic state, it is only because it is in transition. I can assure you, that is where they are headed.

[kanaryamerika]

Bw the way, just so we are on the same page, here is how capitalism is defined. By this definition, Bosnia surely is more capitalist than anything else.

Capitalism generally refers to an economic system in which the means of production are mostly privately[1] owned and operated for profit, and in which distribution, production and pricing of goods and services are determined in a largely free market. It is usually considered to involve the right of individuals and groups of individuals acting as "legal persons" or corporations to trade capital goods, labor, land and money (see finance and credit).

[Centarfor9]

Bw the way, just so we are on the same page, here is how capitalism is defined. By this definition, Bosnia surely is more capitalist than anything else.

Capitalism generally refers to an economic system in which the means of production are mostly privately[1] owned and operated for profit, and in which distribution, production and pricing of goods and services are determined in a largely free market. It is usually considered to involve the right of individuals and groups of individuals acting as "legal persons" or corporations to trade capital goods, labor, land and money (see finance and credit).
by this definition not

but our country has been going and is going currenty through process of privatization and we are moving towards market economy...however there is a possiblity for Bosnia to take up capitalism as its system

[kanaryamerika]

Yeah, I don't know too well how privitization etc is going, but I'm guessing it is happening or will happen soon. It's hard to keep up with the world otherwise.

[Centarfor9]

Yeah, I don't know too well how privitization etc is going, but I'm guessing it is happening or will happen soon. It's hard to keep up with the world otherwise.
overall it's going ok in the Federation (with cases of cheating) but in RS entity there is a mass (in whole sense of the word) corruption and cheating where low prices are being disclosed to bidders and those bidders then ask for that price and buy hundreds and hundreds of state owned capital (and large number of firms) at that low pirce

(the whole process of privatization in entire Bosnia is under investigations)

[Fenerliyim]

Lol the US is a market economy which is capitalism

[Centarfor9]

John Kerry is promoting his new book "This Moment on Earth" and i heard him say that 44% of all US water is contaminated. I wonder is that correct!?! If it is that is sad since U.S. is not considered third world country!

[Centarfor9]

Lol the US is a market economy which is capitalism
lOl ...you don't have to have capitalism in order to be market economy

[kanaryamerika]

"contaminated" is a broad term...by what? I wouldn't doubt it though.

[Centarfor9]

"contaminated" is a broad term...by what? I wouldn't doubt it though.
not drinkable water

[Bosnian Unit]

Yeah, I don't know too well how privitization etc is going, but I'm guessing it is happening or will happen soon. It's hard to keep up with the world otherwise.

I agree on that, our country is following footsteps of Western Europe and North America, but most people dont see that as right track.

There was no definition of people before like middle class or whatever class but now there is. And farest most people can see, that is rich is making more money and poor is even poorer.

Thats why we need to bring back Socialism.

Bosnia & Herzegovina was under communism in Yugoslavia, but we had Socialism as an economic system. And the name of the country was SRBIH (Socialist Republic Bosnia and Herzegovina). In a matter of fact Yugoslavia become founding member of Non-Aligned Movement. Tito never listen to Moscow or Washington, we had our own communist style and idea. We was respected everywhere around the world, and we didnt need ***king visa, we could go anywhere .Thats why i got pissed off when some of you young people see Bosnia as some 3rd world country......but 20 years ago we was country of dreams in ever aspect of life. There was 1984 Olympic Games in Sarajevo......Zeljeznicar was playing in semi finals of Uefa Cup,Basketball club (KK Bosna) from Sarajevo was European champion......and usualy there was just one person working in family and we was living good. Capitalist ***ked us up, and now we are country in transition..........it hurts me when i see Romania,Bulgaria,Estionia,Lithuania,Poland or countrys like that are in front of us..........but not LONG AGO we was country were they use to come and work, we was in front of them in any aspect of life.


Thats why i hate capitalist idea,American idea of freedom....freedom where you pay for everything, freedom where they listen you phone conversation, freedom where you have cameras in every public place, freedom where you cant have your private life, freedom where you are like ROBOT.

Screw you West :boo:

North American Terrorist Organization

[kanaryamerika]

not drinkable water

id like to see where he got taht stat from. Though again, wouldn't necessarily shock me.

[Centarfor9]

@Bosnian Unit and yet you don't understand the stuff i was trying to explain to you in the Away From Football thread in bosnian forum

[Centarfor9]

id like to see where he got taht stat from. Though again, wouldn't necessarily shock me.
it's not rocket science we can find it out on the net (doesn't concern me that much :) )...i just overheard it when i was eating 30 mins ago

[kanaryamerika]

@Bosnian Unit and yet you don't understand the stuff i was trying to explain to you in the Away From Football thread in bosnian forum

is this to me? if so, don't get it. Can you explain.

[kanaryamerika]

it's not rocket science we can find it out...i just overheard it when i was eating 30 mins ago

OK. why so touchy? I'm not questioning you, just curious to find the source cause I'm interested.:mad2:

[Centarfor9]

is this to me? if so, don't get it. Can you explain.
no it's at Bosnian Unit

[Centarfor9]

OK. why so touchy? I'm not questioning you, just curious to find the source cause I'm interested.:mad2:
hmm?

hmm? what makes you think i was "touchy"

hmm? wierd!?!

you are obviously not from USA

that is a saying "it's not rocket science" meaning we can find it out easily if needed

wierd

[kanaryamerika]

I actually am from the US. Maybe it's you who isn't. Depending on the connotation you can us ethe saying "it's not rocket science" to be demeaning. Let's just call this one a fault of text vs. real human interaction.;)

[kanaryamerika]

no it's at Bosnian Unit

ok no prob.

[Centarfor9]

I actually am from the US. Maybe it's you who isn't. Depending on the connotation you can us ethe saying "it's not rocket science" to be demeaning. Let's just call this one a fault of text vs. real human interaction.;)
hmmm?

how was that demeaning to say "it's not rocket science" ???

[kanaryamerika]

hmmm?

how was that demeaning to say "it's not rocket science" ???

It doesn't really matter. Let's just call it a misunderstanding.

[Centarfor9]

It doesn't really matter. Let's just call it a misunderstanding.
yes you did not understand it...no big deal

[kanaryamerika]

yes you did not understand it...no big deal

Great.

[Centarfor9]

Bosnians raise monument to canned beef

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/7254/sarkonzbm8.jpg (http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/)

Sarajevo artists raised a monument to canned beef on Friday in a gesture ridiculing donors for providing such an unpopular food as humanitarian aid during the Bosnian capital's 1992-95 siege.

"The Monument to the International Community" from the "Grateful Citizens of Sarajevo" reads an inscription at the marble foundation of the 1-metre-high golden can of beef.

Bosnians have accused the international community of not allowing them to defend themselves after imposing an arms embargo in the 1990s, while feeding them with outdated canned food instead.

"The message is clear," said Dunja Blazevic of the Centre for Contemporary Art, which launched the initiative placing the work by artist Nebojsa Seric Soba in the centre of Sarajevo.

"The Ikar canned beef is remembered by the people of Sarajevo with disgust. Cats and dogs did not want to eat it and people had to," she said. &quo