Bosnia Politics

[Saraj Fanático]

Muslims must stop being afraid of each other. Why does it matter if one Muslim man decides to grow his beard and pray to Allah every single day and another one chooses not to? People always look back at stupid things like Afghanistan and other shit the World uses to send these scares and fear. Then we get these ideas of fighting radicals and fundamentalist who actually are just normal people who choose differently to follow Islam. CNN and FOX all refer to all Muslim killers as 'Fundamentalists' and 'Extremists' to add on to this fear they have already created. They are suppose to be labeled only as Killers and thats it. I hate some Muslims such as the Taliban who have chosen to take Muslim people back in time and completely erase freedom for Women. But who are the ones who helped the Taliban get in power is my question... Its all a trap. Don't separate your own people with this nonsense. All these stupid things such as 'Radicalism', 'Fundamentalism' and 'Extremist' which are all made to split people and bring fear amongst the population. Muslims first have to make peace amongst them selfs before we continue talking about how we can fix up our world and make things change.

[Cihangir]

Muslims must stop being afraid of each other. Why does it matter if one Muslim man decides to grow his beard and pray to Allah every single day and another one chooses not to? People always look back at stupid things like Afghanistan and other shit the World uses to send these scares and fear. Then we get these ideas of fighting radicals and fundamentalist who actually are just normal people who choose differently to follow Islam. CNN and FOX all refer to all Muslim killers as 'Fundamentalists' and 'Extremists' to add on to this fear they have already created. They are suppose to be labeled only as Killers and thats it. I hate some Muslims such as the Taliban who have chosen to take Muslim people back in time and completely erase freedom for Women. But who are the ones who helped the Taliban get in power is my question... Its all a trap. Don't separate your own people with this nonsense. All these stupid things such as 'Radicalism', 'Fundamentalism' and 'Extremist' which are all made to split people and bring fear amongst the population. Muslims first have to make peace amongst them selfs before we continue talking about how we can fix up our world and make things change.

Yes but that's the US propaganda. Turkey started fighting with radical Islamists in 1920s and currently since 1980s when they were revived. Plus the issue in Turkey is never about Islam itself and how people practice Islam. The problem is these people want to take over the country. There are thousands of names and video proofs.

[el Turco]

By anyways battling any radicals shouldn't be done with the banning of the Hijab from certain places. That is pure haram! :mad2:

U know, that's Turkey's one of the biggest issues imo. Let me first say that i agree with u.

The reason why it's banned is because some people think it's against secularism. I completely disagree with that.

I think this is completely against human rights. I mean, if one school in US did that, they'd be sued, fined and probably closed. Thousands of bright, intelligent women cant go to high school or university. And then so called intellectuals go on TV and talk about how uneducated our people are. If u take away the right to get educated, then how will people receive their education.

One thing people dont do in Turkey is that they dont respect each other's views. It's been like that almost since the beginning. There is always fight between right wind-left wind, seculars-fundamentalist etc... This brings a lot of damage to our country. We can never be a strong bond against something. Maybe only in NT Soccer games :).

And not to mention, there is always some "secret" powers that ***k up our beatiful country, when everything starts to go right.

I don't agree with fundamentalism. Fundamentalism always ironically tends to go off the path.

Could you please describe me what fundamentalist acts or looks like. :)
In other words, what do you mean by the word fundamentalism.

Turkish government is anti-islam (in my opinion).

If u said that because hijab is banned, then let me tell u this. If any PM makes it free to wear hijab in schools and stuff, then there will be a coup next day.

[poutismalakas]

thats the stupidst thing i have ever heard ?? :faint2:

why are albanians satanists, plz watch ur mouth, no one said albanians loved bush so much personally, its just usa,, ppl were cheering for the good relations, and for the american support for Kosova independence.
besides turkey is the one who is ally of USA!!!

All I saw was people screaming BUSHI, BUSHI and grabbing at him like he was Christ him self when he was there! If that ain't showing CRAZY love for the guy then I don't know what is?

[Bosnian Unit]

Im sorry Sinter, but this is the stupidest thing one can say about the government rite now.

There is 500+ females from Turkey studying on universitys across BIH, becouse over there THEY CANT WEAR HIJAB AND GO TO SCHOOL !

[())__Green__))>]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTZp1qwWdoA
this is exactly what america did to us as well
set us up :lol:

[el Turco]

There is 500+ females from Turkey studying on universitys across BIH, becouse over there THEY CANT WEAR HIJAB AND GO TO SCHOOL !


If u said that because hijab is banned, then let me tell u this. If any PM makes it free to wear hijab in schools and stuff, then there will be a coup next day.

:)

it's not the governments choice, it's "other's" choice. :)

[Centarfor9]

^ fer sure (nice edit btw ... you trying to cover the bases :))

If u said that because hijab is banned, then let me tell u this. If any PM makes it free to wear hijab in schools and stuff, then there will be a coup next day.


:Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

priceless :)


There is 500+ females from Turkey studying on universitys across BIH, becouse over there THEY CANT WEAR HIJAB AND GO TO SCHOOL !

i can add much more to that which would show why turkish government is anti-islam but i will not since (people's) feelings my get hurt :sad:

[Bosnian Unit]

U know, that's Turkey's one of the biggest issues imo. Let me first say that i agree with u.

The reason why it's banned is because some people think it's against secularism. I completely disagree with that.

I think this is completely against human rights. I mean, if one school in US did that, they'd be sued, fined and probably closed. Thousands of bright, intelligent women cant go to high school or university. And then so called intellectuals go on TV and talk about how uneducated our people are. If u take away the right to get educated, then how will people receive their education.

One thing people dont do in Turkey is that they dont respect each other's views. It's been like that almost since the beginning. There is always fight between right wind-left wind, seculars-fundamentalist etc... This brings a lot of damage to our country. We can never be a strong bond against something. Maybe only in NT Soccer games :).

And not to mention, there is always some "secret" powers that ***k up our beatiful country, when everything starts to go right.



Could you please describe me what fundamentalist acts or looks like. :)
In other words, what do you mean by the word fundamentalism.



If u said that because hijab is banned, then let me tell u this. If any PM makes it free to wear hijab in schools and stuff, then there will be a coup next day.


Sorry, didnt see that someone allready mentioned banning of hijab in Turkey.

By the way, why some Muslims protest when they want to do that in France,UK,Belgium etc..I mean we have a Muslim country wich banned hijab....why dont we first clean our own backyard then start with European countries and their law.


By the way doesnt people in Turkey have power to change that ? Its not about one man and he say you cant and that's it...what about millions of Turks.


Sounds like dictatorship :boo: !

[el Turco]

:Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound: :Pound:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

priceless :)


i can add much more to that which would show why turkish government is anti-islam but i will not since (people's) feelings my get hurt :sad:

get this first, I agree with u guys %100 on that hijab issue.


Ur laughing but i was very serious.

Let me give u an example.
As Cihangir said, today's government is the most religious one in many years. In their 5 year term, they were gonna get the pick the president. Since they had the majority in the Congress, it seemed like it would be very easy for them to pick their own candidate. But they couldnt pick, u know why?

Opposition party, CHP, went to the "Constitution Courts" and appealed that they need at least 367 representatives to pick the president (They dont have that number of rep.s and this law was never used before). Also, the night before, Military released a statement stating their concerns over the presindential candidate, and implying that there would be a coup if he was picked. At the end, no president was picked and there is gonna be early elections next month.

Deep state is what governs Turkey. Trust me. :)

[Centarfor9]

no dude this makes no sense

If u said that because hijab is banned, then let me tell u this. If any PM makes it free to wear hijab in schools and stuff, then there will be a coup next day.

it's anti-islam government just face the facts

[el Turco]

By the way doesnt people in Turkey have power to change that ? Its not about one man and he say you cant and that's it...what about millions of Turks.



How will the people change it? Go out, and protest. Then u know what going to happen? Same things that happened in '70s and '80s. In those years, thousand of people were killed. Because there was a big fight between left wing and right wing. Streets were like warzones. They would just stop in the street, and ask which are u from? Then if u are from other side, then they would beat u down until u die.

I mean we have a very very sad history. And there is still secret powers that assasinate people , and ***k up our country when everything seems to go right.

[el Turco]

no dude this makes no sense



it's anti-islam government just face the facts

PM's wife has hijab. Presidential candidate(also from AKP)'s wife had hijab, and thats why they didnt let him be the president. And most of the people from AKP has wives with hijab.

U think they wouldnt change that ban if they could.

[Centarfor9]

How will the people change it?
fight the power

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jym-RtHHG0s

[Cihangir]

no dude this makes no sense



it's anti-islam government just face the facts

Let's just clear the little things out, the government is not anti-islam neither the opposition. The deep state? Sure.

If I asked someone on the street if tayip erdogan is an anti-islamist he/she would find it quite amusing. =P

[el Turco]

Let's just clear the little things out, the government is not anti-islam neither the opposition. The deep state? Sure.

If I asked someone on the street if tayip erdogan is an anti-islamist he/she would find it quite amusing. =P

Exactly.



Akbil User. :lol:

nice sigs. All of them. :)

[Centarfor9]

Let's just clear the little things out, the government is not anti-islam neither the opposition. The deep state? Sure.
i'm convinced :) *sarcasm


If I asked someone on the street if tayip erdogan is an anti-islamist he/she would find it quite amusing. =P
turkish culture has changed and they value things in different way now

[Cihangir]

i'm convinced :) *sarcasm


turkish culture has changed and they value things in different way now

Brate you just have to know Turkish to be fully convinced I can find proof for all of this but you won't be fully convinced. =P

[Cihangir]

Exactly.



Akbil User. :lol:

nice sigs. All of them. :)

Heheh! Use akbil-save the environment! :P Thanks. ;)

[Centarfor9]

Brate you just have to know Turkish to be fully convinced I can find proof for all of this but you won't be fully convinced. =P
fer sure

what about this statement
turkish culture has changed and they value things in different way now
;) ;) ;)

[el Turco]

turkish culture has changed

That, i agree with you.

I havent been to Turkey in last 3 years. (:( ) But one of my friends went there last summer, and he said he went to restaurant, and every meal in the menu was in English.

I mean, just by watching Turkish TV, I see how people on TV use English words such as mentality, timing, start, finish etc... when there is a Turkish word for each one of them.

Let me add one more thing. I saw one school celebrate Halloween on TV. How sad is this?

[Centarfor9]

That, i agree with you.

I havent been to Turkey in last 3 years. (:( ) But one of my friends went there last summer, and he said he went to restaurant, and every meal in the menu was in English.

I mean, just by watching Turkish TV, I see how people on TV use English words such as mentality, timing, start, finish etc... when there is a Turkish word for each one of them.

Let me add one more thing. I saw one school celebrate Halloween on TV. How sad is this?
...and they value things in different way now ;) ;) ;)

[el Turco]

...and they value things in different way now ;) ;) ;)

what do u exactly mean by that statement?

[Centarfor9]

what do u exactly mean by that statement?
what i said was

turkish culture has changed and they value things in different way now

now that is quite obvious

[Cihangir]

Yea, it's sad but they don't represent the rest of the population clearly they are just spoiled, unconscious and ignorant TV personalities.
I would not draw that much of a negative portrait but what I do think about this is Turkish people don't care for the details. I mean look your friends' attention was on the menu and things like that..

[Bosnian Unit]

I dont understand what is deep state ?

By the way, if you are a democracy or following that way why would hijab be banned ? Its not banned in USA for example and many European countries, EXCEPT THOSE WHO HAVE LARGE MUSLIM POPULATION, and thats the reason they are banning it becouse it would look like its Muslim country.

Like i said here in BIH it not banned, and there is no man or president or whoever who would have that power to bann it.

Its against human rights ! End of story, i dont know what is Turkey trying to prove ? They will never get in EU, just becouse you are Muslims. And trust me you are way better off like that then being in EU. Just imagine EU would be bordering with Iran,Iraq,Syria etc....ITS NOT HAPPENING !

Im tottaly against that GERMAN/NAZI/MASONIC creation. If they couldnt conqure it hard way, they are brainwashing people and conquering it easy and smart way.

[el Turco]

I dont understand what is deep state ?

By the way, if you are a democracy or following that way why would hijab be banned ? Its not banned in USA for example and many European countries, EXCEPT THOSE WHO HAVE LARGE MUSLIM POPULATION, and thats the reason they are banning it becouse it would look like its Muslim country.

Like i said here in BIH it not banned, and there is no man or president or whoever who would have that power to bann it.

Its against human rights ! End of story, i dont know what is Turkey trying to prove ? They will never get in EU, just becouse you are Muslims. And trust me you are way better off like that then being in EU. Just imagine EU would be bordering with Iran,Iraq,Syria etc....ITS NOT HAPPENING !

Im tottaly against that GERMAN/NAZI/MASONIC creation. If they couldnt conqure it hard way, they are brainwashing people and conquering it easy and smart way.

i completely agree with you. It's against human rights and democracy.


Deep State:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state

[Cihangir]

True, not happening and don't want it to happen really. No one here with a sane mind want to get into the EU.
If I could explain what the deep state is I would not hang around here man but I have this crazy idea that the last election in Turkey, which brought a misfortune like AKP, was supported by the US. The country is seen desperate to get into the EU on a governmental level which is clearly not fully Turkish but on the streets it's a different issue. There is a passionate anti-EU movement as well which I participate also.

[el Turco]

True, not happening and don't want it to happen really. No one here with a sane mind want to get into the EU.
If I could explain what the deep state is I would not hang around here man but I have this crazy idea that the last election in Turkey, which brought a misfortune like AKP, was supported by the US. The country is seen desperate to get into the EU on a governmental level which is clearly not fully Turkish but on the streets it's a different issue. There is a passionate anti-EU movement as well which I participate also.

that, i dont agree with u my friend. :)

[el Turco]

BTW, can any mods in here open a new topic named "Turkish politics" and move all these posts in there.

Last few pages have nothing to do with Bosnian politics.

[Cihangir]

BTW, can any mods in here open a new topic named "Turkish politics" and move all these posts in there.

Last few pages have nothing to do with Bosnian politics.

Felt wrong about it too. =P

[el Turco]

Felt wrong about it too. =P

Sinter started it, it's all his fault. :D

[el Turco]

Im surprised Fenerliyim didnt come here to discuss Turkish politics. He loves talking politics. :)

[Cihangir]

Im surprised Fenerliyim didnt come here to discuss Turkish politics. He loves talking politics. :)

Maybe he's fed up. =P

[Centarfor9]

Sinter started it, it's all his fault. :D
sure blame it on the bosnian guy

i can't believe this thread went this way

post #200 (http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showpost.php?p=846101&postcount=200)

post #201 (http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showpost.php?p=846109&postcount=201)

then post #202 (http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showpost.php?p=846114&postcount=202)

and then pages of stuff related to Turkey lol

[el Turco]

sure blame it on the bosnian guy



u deserve to be blamed, Galatasaray fan. :D

[Centarfor9]

Galatasaray fan. :D
now that is not funny

[el Turco]

now that is not funny

if it wasnt Bosanac, we'd never know the truth. :D

[Centarfor9]

if it wasnt Bosanac, we'd never know the truth. :D
he is just making up stuff because he sucks at poker :lol:

[el Turco]

he is just making up stuff because he sucks at poker :lol:

Bosanac, just ban him forever. :D

wat was the rest of ur sig?

[el Turco]

It's been really nice talking politics with all of you, but i gotta go watch the Yankees game now. :)

[Centarfor9]

Bosanac, just ban him forever. :D

wat was the rest of ur sig?
it's still there after a short break

Best Goal Ever!!!!! (http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=55098)

It's been really nice talking politics with all of you, but i gotta go watch the Yankees game now. :)
good luck

[())__Green__))>]

Bosna I Hercegovna

[Centarfor9]

Bosna I Hercegovna
you watch your mouth

there are too many of us with hercegovina roots :lol:

[Saraj Fanático]

Well one thing we all can agree on is that Hijab ban sucks ass...

Don't be so French!

[Centarfor9]

^ pardon your French

[Pape]

Is wearing a hijab, something cultural, or something that all Muslim women are required to wear?

[Cihangir]

Is wearing a hijab, something cultural, or something that all Muslim women are required to wear?

Well let me put it this way if you don't wear it it's not like you're certainly not Muslim. It's more common among Arab women.

[Pape]

Well I was just wondering because I know its not suprising to see that kind of stuff in central Bosnia today and that has never before been in the culture of the Bosniak people before. So wearing that is kind of the opposite effect as far as cultural change, and I know at the same time that many Bosniaks aren't for that too.

I know what some of you are probably thinking after reading that but all of a sudden going so Muslim, really goes a long way to sort of verifying for a large majority of Bosnian Christians beliefs that the reason BiH wanted independence in the first place was to form a Islamic state. And I seen F.C. Sarajevo wrote in a previous post that he would consider any Muslim as his brother, I'm guessing even if he wanted to rip his head off... Don't take that as any sort of a insult or attact but that is just the reality that we have, or perhaps one side of the story, you decide.

Before I conclude my speech :lol: I want to say that in Yugoslavia the worst Muslim is the one who became a Muslim in 1992 and the worst Christian is the one who became a Christian in 1992.

Now I have something to add to that, the worst man is the man who forgot about his brother in 1992 and found a new one not because they love each other but because they share a religion that means for Muslims and just as equally for Christians.

[Centarfor9]

Is wearing a hijab, something cultural, or something that all Muslim women are required to wear?
muslim want to wear it in case of Turkey and Bosnia (not sure about anywhere else)

in muslim countries women use hijabs like women in western cultures use mini skirts (but opposite)

i will explain all to ya later --- tune in later (don't feel like writing a lot right now)

hijabs are something amazing --- and have so many positive connotations for women and muslim culture in general

[Centarfor9]

Well I was just wondering because I know its not suprising to see that kind of stuff in central Bosnia today and that has never before been in the culture of the Bosniak people before. So wearing that is kind of the opposite effect as far as cultural change, and I know at the same time that many Bosniaks aren't for that too.

I know what some of you are probably thinking after reading that but all of a sudden going so Muslim, really goes a long way to sort of verifying for a large majority of Bosnian Christians beliefs that the reason BiH wanted independence in the first place was to form a Islamic state. And I seen F.C. Sarajevo wrote in a previous post that he would consider any Muslim as his brother, I'm guessing even if he wanted to rip his head off... Don't take that as any sort of a insult or attact but that is just the reality that we have, or perhaps one side of the story, you decide.

Before I conclude my speech :lol: I want to say that in Yugoslavia the worst Muslim is the one who became a Muslim in 1992 and the worst Christian is the one who became a Christian in 1992.

Now I have something to add to that, the worst man is the man who forgot about his brother in 1992 and found a new one not because they love each other but because they share a religion that means for Muslims and just as equally for Christians.
brother you are way off with this

(trust me way way off)

[Saraj Fanático]

Is wearing a hijab, something cultural, or something that all Muslim women are required to wear?


It is cultural and in some ways its also a duty. It represents submission to god. Women are given the choice if or if not to wear it but in religious matters women should. Not required though.

[Centarfor9]

It is cultural and in some ways its also a duty. It represents submission to god. Women are given the choice if or if not to wear it but in religious matters women should. Not required though.
ombre you are way off base

i didn't know that agnostic would have to teach you islam :lol: (i will later)

[Saraj Fanático]

Well I was just wondering because I know its not suprising to see that kind of stuff in central Bosnia today and that has never before been in the culture of the Bosniak people before. So wearing that is kind of the opposite effect as far as cultural change, and I know at the same time that many Bosniaks aren't for that too.

I know what some of you are probably thinking after reading that but all of a sudden going so Muslim, really goes a long way to sort of verifying for a large majority of Bosnian Christians beliefs that the reason BiH wanted independence in the first place was to form a Islamic state. And I seen F.C. Sarajevo wrote in a previous post that he would consider any Muslim as his brother, I'm guessing even if he wanted to rip his head off... Don't take that as any sort of a insult or attact but that is just the reality that we have, or perhaps one side of the story, you decide.

Before I conclude my speech :lol: I want to say that in Yugoslavia the worst Muslim is the one who became a Muslim in 1992 and the worst Christian is the one who became a Christian in 1992.

Now I have something to add to that, the worst man is the man who forgot about his brother in 1992 and found a new one not because they love each other but because they share a religion that means for Muslims and just as equally for Christians.


Bro we really never wanted an Islamic State. We just wanted to be independent. Alija had envisioned some Islamic state at times but at the end he also realized that its impossible. There will never be an Islamic State of BiH mainly because of two reasons, 1. Mixed populations and 2. Europe would never allow it not to mention World, trust me on that!.

Bosniaks aren't really cultural at all. We are probably amongst the biggest Muslim groups of people that do not have practicing Muslims. And there is nothing wrong with Cultural changes IMO.

[Saraj Fanático]

ombre you are way off base

i didn't know that agnostic would have to teach you islam :lol: (i will later)


Where the hell are you coming from? You teaching me Islam? LOL! God forbid.

Hijab is a duty and thats final. Yet Allah is against the forcing of any being to do something they do not wish.

[Centarfor9]

Where the hell are you coming from? You teaching me Islam? LOL! God forbid.

Hijab is a duty and thats final. Yet Allah is against the forcing of any being to do something they do not wish.
send me some of that weed as an attachment :smoking:

p.s. i think you have never seen a mosque in your life (no offense i'm judging it by your comments)

[Pape]

Bro we really never wanted an Islamic State. We just wanted to be independent. Alija had envisioned some Islamic state at times but at the end he also realized that its impossible. There will never be an Islamic State of BiH mainly because of two reasons, 1. Mixed populations and 2. Europe would never allow it not to mention World, trust me on that!.

Bosniaks aren't really cultural at all. We are probably amongst the biggest Muslim groups of people that do not have practicing Muslims. And there is nothing wrong with Cultural changes IMO.

I don't really care who wanted what, I know this though. If Bosniaks wanted independence from Serbs, I don't really know how anybody was a slave of anybody in the first place, it didn't happen because we just went from one mixed state to another mixed state, accept in this one Bosniak's have the majority so you have alot more say. But whatever the matter is in my opinion everybody is over 100,000 good people in the negative, and I would even add all of those displaced to that number. I know that I feel like I lost a wonderful life even though I am alive in the U.S.A. today, and trust me I would much rather be living in what could have been than what is. But if you feel that it was worth it and what you personally have today is better than enjoy your life to the fullest.

[el Turco]

@Sinter

Why dont u write what u think about hijab?

[Saraj Fanático]

send me some of that weed as an attachment :smoking:

p.s. i think you have never seen a mosque in your life (no offense i'm judging it by your comments)


Yeah a person who swallows down alcohol and has the nerves to tell me that. :lol: Here in Bosnia we have Mosques in every direction if you didn't know or if you have ever been here. When is the last time you went down to Djuma down there in Canada?

Sinter my son maybe its time for you to shut up and quit acting like some genius.

And what are you debating me against anyways? I am up for the challenge.

[Centarfor9]

I don't really care who wanted what, I know this though. If Bosniaks wanted independence from Serbs, I don't really know how anybody was a slave of anybody in the first place, it didn't happen because we just went from one mixed state to another mixed state, accept in this one Bosniak's have the majority so you have alot more say. But whatever the matter is in my opinion everybody is over 100,000 good people in the negative, and I would even add all of those displaced to that number. I know that I feel like I lost a wonderful life even though I am alive in the U.S.A. today, and trust me I would much rather be living in what could have been than what is. But if you feel that it was worth it and what you personally have today is better than enjoy your life to the fullest.
hmm

let me simplfy (dumbfy) this for myself [and you say is that what you were trying to say]

are you trying to rub something in some people's faces?

sad*

are you trying to say was it worth it to call for a referendum for independence?

that's inhumane (knowing what happened and how it happened)

let me not add that it has hint of fascism (which is called just chauvanism on the other side of drina river) and it's very offensive to your bosnian friends like me

be rational and logical in your assesments

[BBBTG]

What is going on??? Can someone explain to me?

[Saraj Fanático]

I don't really care who wanted what, I know this though. If Bosniaks wanted independence from Serbs, I don't really know how anybody was a slave of anybody in the first place, it didn't happen because we just went from one mixed state to another mixed state, accept in this one Bosniak's have the majority so you have alot more say. But whatever the matter is in my opinion everybody is over 100,000 good people in the negative, and I would even add all of those displaced to that number. I know that I feel like I lost a wonderful life even though I am alive in the U.S.A. today, and trust me I would much rather be living in what could have been than what is. But if you feel that it was worth it and what you personally have today is better than enjoy your life to the fullest.


I don't really have nothing against today's way of life in BiH since during Yugoslavia there were divisions always. Co'mon we all know that. I however do believe in separating religion from politics at this time in our nation and working together as 1 people. I think the fact that we have so much religion being played in BiH politics is causing all this separatism. I have nothing against religious freedoms and cultural play here but when it comes to politics religion causes war most of the time. Especially in BiH.

[Centarfor9]

Yeah a person who swallows down alcohol and has the nerves to tell me that. :lol: Here in Bosnia we have Mosques in every direction if you didn't know or if you have ever been here. When is the last time you went down to Juma down there in Canada?

Sinter my son maybe its time for you to shut up and quit acting like some genius.

And what are you debating me against anyways? I am up for the challenge.
i dring alcohol daily

with every meal ther is wine or bear or some form of alcohol

as matter of fact i'm drinking bear right now (and i spilled some over my bed and tepih a i sjebo sam peskir)

last time i went to mosque was 2 years ago (might be more i left off my brothers to mekteb)

dude challenge? this is not a hot dog eating contest somewhere in miami or florida area

relax dude

and listen to the song by westside connection - Bow Down (and you'll know where i'm coming from)

[Centarfor9]

What is going on??? Can someone explain to me?
just some politics stuff

bavimo se politikom

ja sam ko bijagi Zeljko Komsic

a oni ona dva ostala :D

mozes i ti se pridruzit ali mislim morat ces bit Roki :D

[el Turco]

i dring alcohol daily

with every meal ther is wine or bear or some form of alcohol

as matter of fact i'm drinking bear right now (and i spilled some over my bed and tepih a i sjebo sam peskir)

last time i went to mosque was 2 years ago (might be more i left off my brothers to mekteb)

dude challenge? this is not a hot dog eating contest somewhere in miami or florida area

relax dude

and listen to the song by westside connection - Bow Down (and you'll know where i'm coming from)

*if there is no sarcasm involved in this.

And you call Turkish PM and government anti-Islamic. :lol:

(Im not sayin ur anti-Islamic)

[ARBANITAI]

I dont think wearing Hijab is really so necessary, or that it makes her a better muslim, the muslim girl all she has to do is to cover her hair and her body as it is stated in the Qu'ran but its not stated something as what clothes she has to wear, does it, its something up to them, i mean she can wear any other clothes she wants just that she covers her hair and body well, and it doesnt matter what it really is !?

as Cihangir said Hijab is more common used among Arab women.

[Pape]

hmm

let me simplfy (dumbfy) this for myself [and you say is that what you were trying to say]

are you trying to rub something in some people's faces?

sad*

are you trying to say was it worth it to call for a referendum for independence?

that's inhumane (knowing what happened and how it happened)

let me not add that it has hint of fascism (which is called just chauvanism on the other side of drina river) and it's very offensive to your bosnian friends like me

be rational and logical in your assesments


Yes I understand that it can be very offensive but you need to take it as my personal opinion and hate me for it all you want.

What I said is we lost all we had and in the end ended up with the same thing in a worse shape.

The idea wasn't fully thought through to began with..

[BBBTG]

[QUOTE=Šinter]i dring alcohol daily

with every meal ther is wine or bear or some form of alcohol
80% of bosnians muslims are drinking alcohol:smoking:
as matter of fact i'm drinking bear right now (and i spilled some over my bed and tepih a i sjebo sam peskir)
Koje pivo??? JA DEREM KARLOVACKO:smoking:
last time i went to mosque was 2 years ago (might be more i left off my brothers to mekteb)
Shame on you, I will tell this to REIS ULEMA:worried:
dude challenge? this is not a hot dog eating contest somewhere in miami or florida area



[

[Centarfor9]

Yes I understand that it can be very offensive but you need to take it as my personal opinion and hate me for it all you want.

What I said is we lost all we had and in the end ended up with the same thing in a worse shape.

The idea wasn't fully thought through to began with..
it's illogical 77% > 33%

i'm most bothered with lack of logic or something we call RAZUM

Imas li razuma? i znas li sta govoris kad kazes ono?

[Saraj Fanático]

i dring alcohol daily

with every meal ther is wine or bear or some form of alcohol

as matter of fact i'm drinking bear right now (and i spilled some over my bed and tepih a i sjebo sam peskir)

last time i went to mosque was 2 years ago (might be more i left off my brothers to mekteb)

dude challenge? this is not a hot dog eating contest somewhere in miami or florida area

relax dude

and listen to the song by westside connection - Bow Down (and you'll know where i'm coming from)

So you do agree that telling someone something so stupid like 'You have never seen a mosque before' when I got to the Mosque to pray every Friday, is not needed? Because honestly you have to learn when its okay and when its not to engage in an conversation with someone who you don't know.

By challenge I mean to go into a religious debate.

[Centarfor9]

80% of bosnians muslims are drinking alcohol:smoking:
as matter of fact i'm drinking bear right now (and i spilled some over my bed and tepih a i sjebo sam peskir)
Koje pivo??? JA DEREM KARLOVACKO:smoking:
last time i went to mosque was 2 years ago (might be more i left off my brothers to mekteb)
Shame on you, I will tell this to REIS ULEMA:worried:
nemoj matereti

:lol:

nije lose karlovacko (nisam ga pijo ima vise od 5 godnia :shocked: )

zar ti nepijes ozujsko ili lasko (tj. vlasko) :D

[Pape]

it's illogical 77% > 33%

i'm most bothered with lack of logic or something we call RAZUM

Imas li razuma? i znas li sta govoris kad kazes ono?

Please Sinter :lol: when was the last time our peoples used logic?

We disagree on a subject, kill or be killed..

[BBBTG]

Kanite Se Politike, Kolko Ja Znam Bosna Je Sekularna A Ne Islamska Drzava

[BBBTG]

[/COLOR]
nemoj matereti

:lol:

nije lose karlovacko (nisam ga pijo ima vise od 5 godnia :shocked: )

zar ti nepijes ozujsko ili lasko (tj. vlasko) :D
Žuja is good but Karlovacko is better:Party: , I dont like vlaško pivo:mad2:

[Saraj Fanático]

I dont think wearing Hijab is really so necessary, or that it makes her a better muslim, the muslim girl all she has to do is to cover her hair and her body as it is stated in the Qu'ran but its not stated something as what clothes she has to wear, does it, its something up to them, i mean she can wear any other clothes she wants just that she covers her hair and body well, and it doesnt matter what it really is !?

as Cihangir said Hijab is more common used among Arab women.

Hijab is meant for all practicing Muslim women. Arabs, Persians, Converts you name it.

Not wearing Hijab is considered as Haram. But she shouldn't be forced into it if she chooses not to. I think Hijab is very protective. It benefits both the man and woman in a relationship.

[Centarfor9]

*if there is no sarcas involved in this.

And you call Turkish PM and government anti-Islamic. :lol:

(Im not sayin ur anti-Islamic)
where did i say anything anti-islamic?

(oh wait i just saw that stuff in parenthesis)

Islam Lesson 1: There is no bigger sin in islam than saying or acting as a Muslim when you are not one. People that act like they are muslims are insults to Muslims all over the world.

[more next time]

btw i read qur'an and the bible (but that doesn't mean that i'm any of those)

i'm in the studying phase

Islam Lesson 2: You can have all the time in the world to study up islam before you submit (i.e. Islam).

[Saraj Fanático]

Kanite Se Politike, Kolko Ja Znam Bosna Je Sekularna A Ne Islamska Drzava


A tko kaže da je 'Islamska Država'?

[ARBANITAI]

^^ wow Sarajevo you really are that religious dude ?? :silly: ;)

Tell me do you go to Dzamija that every friday ;)

[Centarfor9]

@Sinter

Why dont u write what u think about hijab?
i will (i'm looking forward to it :D ...:faint2: )

i'm a nerd :lol:

there is too many people asking things and i type too slow (two finger stuff)

and did i mention the fact that i didn't sleep in 30 hours :lol:

[Centarfor9]

Please Sinter :lol: when was the last time our peoples used logic?

We disagree on a subject, kill or be killed..
A jebala te komsinica :D

nemora znacit da ti budes nerealan

jebo svijet al ima nas puno vise realnih nego onih koji nisu

zato nas i ima zivih

[Pape]

A tko kaže da je 'Islamska Država'?

I think you better put a hijab on if you want to have a healthy relationship with BBBTG now. :lol:

[Centarfor9]

Žuja is good but Karlovacko is better:Party: , I dont like vlaško pivo:mad2:
jel karlovacko ono sa jelenom?

ili ono sa gljivicama :D

[el Turco]

where did i say anything anti-islamic?

(oh wait i just saw that stuff in parenthesis)

Islam Lesson 1: There is no bigger sin in islam than saying or acting as a Muslim when you are not one. People that act like they are muslims are insults to Muslims all over the world.

[more next time]

btw i read qur'an and the bible (but that doesn't mean that i'm any of those)

i'm in the studying phase

Islam Lesson 2: You can have all the time in the world to study up islam before you submit (i.e. Islam).

Well,

Islamic Lesson 1: The biggest sin in Islam is shirk.

[Centarfor9]

I think you better put a hijab on if you want to have a healthy relationship with BBBTG now. :lol:
that's offensive :sad:

not cool

we all bosnians

you slipped one there but i don't want FC. to retaliate and ban us all (i mean the entire forum)

zajebani su bosanci (znam jer sam jedan od njih a trebo bi i ti to znat :) )

[Saraj Fanático]

^^ wow Sarajevo you really are that religious dude ?? :silly: ;)

Tell me do you go to Dzamija that every friday ;)


I am not religious actually. I still always want to give up more for god. because as a Muslim I think it is right to do so. I would feel very unpleasant claiming to be a Muslim when all I do is what it tells me not to. So I think that to show it we have to give up some of the things we desire.

Yes every friday I got to Dzuma. Sometimes I don't have the time because of certain reasons but I make sure that i do it as much as I can.

[BBBTG]

A tko kaže da je 'Islamska Država'?

Ma glupa mi je ta rasprava, nek svako bude ono sto je, je si li se ti ikada okusio alkohola??

[ARBANITAI]

Hijab is meant for all practicing Muslim women. Arabs, Persians, Converts you name it

Not wearing Hijab is considered as Haram. But she shouldn't be forced into it if she chooses not to. I think Hijab is very protective. It benefits both the man and woman in a relationship.

yeah yeah sure, but why Hijab, i mean does it really have to a be hijab ?? can't she not use another clothes to cover her budy then a hijab ??
thats what i dont understand...

though i have nothing against hijab, but i dont agree that they are the only style of wear for the muslim girls, girls can wear watever she wants, just as she covers her hair and body, thats all.

[Centarfor9]

Well,

Islamic Lesson 1: The biggest sin is Islam is shirk.
nah

nope

i don't think so

(think about it)

ask your parents because this is real big --- you might be wasting time and not practicing islam correctly if you are not understanding that

[BBBTG]

I think you better put a hijab on if you want to have a healthy relationship with BBBTG now. :lol:
What??????????:mad2:

[Saraj Fanático]

that's offensive :sad:

not cool

we all bosnians

you slipped one there but i don't want FC. to retaliate and ban us all (i mean the entire forum)

zajebani su bosanci (znam jer sam jedan od njih a trebo bi i ti to znat :) )


:lol: :lol: No I have only banned 1 person in my entire Moderation job here. And he was a salesmen or something. Not actually a user. Banning is the last option I choose.

[Centarfor9]

:lol: :lol: No I have only banned 1 person in my entire Moderation job here. And he was a salesmen or something. Not actually a user. Banning is the last option I choose.
dude don't let people off the hook

even though you don't Mod this forum

(now i'm not saying go ban people)

i ako banujes bosanca nogu cu ti slomit :D

[ARBANITAI]

In fact the biggest sin in islam, is to make partners to God, or to believe in others then God.

[Saraj Fanático]

yeah yeah sure, but why Hijab, i mean does it really have to a be hijab ?? can't she not use another clothes to cover her budy then a hijab ??
thats what i dont understand...

though i have nothing against hijab, but i dont agree that they are the only style of wear for the muslim girls, girls can wear watever she wants, just as she covers her hair and budy, thats all.


Oh off course. It doesn't have to be Hijab. But in my opinion it goes the best with Hijab. The whole purpose of Hijab is cover up the hair and body so anything that serves the same purpose is alright.

[Saraj Fanático]

dude don't let people off the hook

even though you don't Mod this forum

(now i'm not saying go ban people)



No i don't I just really use my banning powers as something that shouldn't bring fear into people to share what they think or feel. I use it when I have to and right now I really don't have to. :D One thing that will automatically make me to ban a person is insults at a race or certain people. And thank god we don't have much of that here.

i ako banujes bosanca nogu cu ti slomit :D

:lol:

[BBBTG]

Vozdra Ljudi, Zaboli Me Glava Od Ove Rasprave, Odo Popit Jedno Pivce Za Živce, Necete Valjda Mene Zabranit Jer Sam Iz Hb?

[el Turco]

nah

nope

i don't think so

(think about it)

ask your parents because this is real big --- you might be wasting time and not practicing islam correctly if you are not understanding that

Trust me it is, SInter.

In fact the biggest sin in islam, is to make partners to God, or to believe in others then God.

That's what I said. This is called shirk.

Islam Lesson 1: There is no bigger sin in islam than saying or acting as a Muslim when you are not one. People that act like they are muslims are insults to Muslims all over the world.


This depends on what u mean to say there.

If u are a nonbeliever who doesnt believe in God, and u call urself Muslim and act like a Muslim, then that's, indeed, a big sin. Bigger than the regular nonbeliever would get. It's not the biggest, but lets say one of the biggest. It is called being munafiq. The biggest sin is shirk.

But, if u believe in Allah, but just cant do everything Quran says, like prayin five times a day etc, then Allah still can forgive you anytime.

[Cihangir]

Well it was practical because back then seeing a girl's hair was like seeing Paris's thong maybe. Look at that time's poetry&songs it's all like ah your hair my dilber your cheeks and stuff. Look at today's umm i can't say love but "female related" songs, don't they all go like shake that thing mama or lemme see you work it. It's all about asses and boobs so today it would pretty much do if you cover them, the hair is not that important. You can survive as a Muslim without hijab. Just make sure to wear it when you're praying and such.

[el Turco]

Well it was practical because back then seeing a girl's hair was like seeing Paris's thong maybe. Look at that time's poetry it's all like ah your hair my dilber your cheeks and stuff. Look at today's umm i can't say love but "female related" songs, don't they all go like shake that thing mama or lemme see you work it. It's all about asses and boobs so today it would pretty much do if you cover them, the hair is not that important. You can survive as a Muslim without hijab. Just make sure to wear it when you're praying and such.

And another important thing is what you are inside.

[Cihangir]

True.

[Centarfor9]

No i don't I just really use my banning powers as something that shouldn't bring fear into people to share what they think or feel. I use it when I have to and right now I really don't have to. :D One thing that will automatically make me to ban a person is insults at a race or certain people. And thank god we don't have much of that here.
i agree

i ovako sam se usro

[Centarfor9]

Vozdra Ljudi, Zaboli Me Glava Od Ove Rasprave, Odo Popit Jedno Pivce Za Živce, Necete Valjda Mene Zabranit Jer Sam Iz Hb?
haha

sta je to Hb? that is unusual :D

Hb....? hb...? hmm Hallandale Beach, Florida??? eh tu bi ja

[Centarfor9]

Trust me it is, SInter.
nah that is way lower of the sins

check with your parents (copy exactly what i said there in that one paragraph and ask them)

Islam = to submit (anything else falls short)


That's what I said. This is called shirk.


If u are a nonbeliever who doesnt believe in God, and u call urself Muslim and act like a Muslim, then that's, indeed, a big sin. Bigger than the regular nonbeliever would get. It's not the biggest, but lets say one of the biggest. It is called being munafiq. The biggest sin is shirk.
i'm talking about fake muslims

ones that don't submit to islam (but only partially)

falsely representing islam is or representing islam is part of that lesson 1


But, if u believe in Allah, but just cant do everything Quran says, like prayin five times a day etc, then Allah still can forgive you anytime.
ok this is what i'm talking about

p.s. with all do respect don't talk to me (before you check with your parents on the thing i told you --- this is very important)

[Centarfor9]

Well it was practical because back then seeing a girl's hair was like seeing Paris's thong maybe. Look at that time's poetry&songs it's all like ah your hair my dilber your cheeks and stuff. Look at today's umm i can't say love but "female related" songs, don't they all go like shake that thing mama or lemme see you work it. It's all about asses and boobs so today it would pretty much do if you cover them, the hair is not that important. You can survive as a Muslim without hijab. Just make sure to wear it when you're praying and such.
false


women don't have to wear hijab when you are praying

[Cihangir]

Plus please comment on these. They are wearing a hijab but aren't they fit females that can attract the opposite sex?
Which one is more accurate to you?

http://bp3.blogger.com/_GVFPqBBzs5o/RnDnDcbAfCI/AAAAAAAAAoI/DYdA9yktt-k/s1600/huride.jpg
or
http://www.tf.uio.no/nettlaering/grafikk/f-hijab.jpg

I'm not trying to make a comparison plus I don't even care how they dress up but is it fair to say this is right and that's not in terms of Islam?

[ARBANITAI]

That's what I said. This is called shirk.

Yeah that's right. :) but i wanted to be sure everyone knew what it means :)

This depends on what u mean to say there.

If u are a nonbeliever who doesnt believe in God, and u call urself Muslim and act like a Muslim, then that's, indeed, a big sin. Bigger than the regular nonbeliever would get. It's not the biggest, but lets say one of the biggest. It is called being munafiq. The biggest sin is shirk.

But, if u believe in Allah, but just cant do everything Quran says, like prayin five times a day etc, then Allah still can forgive you anytime.

actually that could be be one of the biggests sins,maybe just after shirk, since acting like you are, and your not is pretty bad.
the last thing i hope is true whay you said, since i doubt any of us here are doing regular prayings, but of course hoping that God can forgive that, as he is the most forgiver:)

[Centarfor9]

Plus please comment on these. They are wearing a hijab but aren't they fit females that can attract the opposite sex?
Which one is more accurate to you?

http://bp3.blogger.com/_GVFPqBBzs5o/RnDnDcbAfCI/AAAAAAAAAoI/DYdA9yktt-k/s1600/huride.jpg
or



there is just an x there no picture


http://www.tf.uio.no/nettlaering/grafikk/f-hijab.jpg

I'm not trying to make a comparison plus I don't even care how they dress up but is it fair to say this is right and that's not in terms of Islam?
i like her

very nice looking chick

i would marry her :sad:

but i see the some fake stuff as well

that's why i postpone to talk about hijabs since it's important subject

[Cihangir]

false


women don't have to wear hijab when you are praying

Hmm, then praying with mini skirts are OK?

I remembered a debate years ago in Turkey whether it was okay or not to pray naked.

[Cihangir]

@Šinter: Try this link then; http://bp3.blogger.com/_GVFPqBBzs5o/RnDnDcbAfCI/AAAAAAAAAoI/DYdA9yktt-k/s1600-h/huride.jpg

[Saraj Fanático]

Hijab is 100% necessary when praying. And males have to cover up also. No as much as women but we have to cover up certain parts of the body also.

[Centarfor9]

Hmm, then praying with mini skirts are OK?

I remembered a debate years ago in Turkey whether it was okay or not to pray naked.
now you are doing a 360 there

i like

what it says in qur'an is that women should dress modestly and respectfully

all other stuff that are not part of qur'an are traditional stuff of arabs

[Centarfor9]

@Šinter: Try this link then; http://bp3.blogger.com/_GVFPqBBzs5o/RnDnDcbAfCI/AAAAAAAAAoI/DYdA9yktt-k/s1600-h/huride.jpg
she looks better

the other one has some fake to her, she failed the first lesson

i marry them both :lol:

[ARBANITAI]

Hmm, then praying with mini skirts are OK?

I remembered a debate years ago in Turkey whether it was okay or not to pray naked.

wtf ? haha for surely you cannot pray naked ?????? :rolleyes: :D

I can't imagine how you guys even come up to debate something like that :lol:

[ARBANITAI]

what it says in qur'an is that women should dress modestly and respectfully

all other stuff that are not part of qur'an are traditional stuff of arabs

I fully agree on this, ppl shall follow and do what the book says, and not what, (let's say) the arab women wears !!!:smoking:

[Fenerliyim]

like fenerfan said the biggest sin is to say there is no god or say there is more than 1 god, or ur god.

but being a munafiq, a pretend muslim is very close to the one above.

[ARBANITAI]

^^ So What do you guys think of those "Submitters" ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Submitters_International

The submitters are a religious group, founded by Rashad Khalifa.

Submitters considers themselves to be adhering to true Islam,
but prefer not to use the terms "Muslim" or "Islam," instead using the English equivalents: "Submitter" or "Submission." Submitters believe Khalifa was a messenger of God!!! :rolleyes:


any comments...?

[Cihangir]

wtf ? haha for surely you cannot pray naked ?????? :rolleyes: :D

I can't imagine how you guys even come up to debate something like that :lol:

Lol It's the media way. I can't remember what was being covered with this stupid issue.
Government ***ks something up then bird flu comes to Turkey and stuff like that. =P

[Saraj Fanático]

Why are so many people afraid of Hijab? :lol: In the Quran women are told to dress modestly but to do that they have to cover up their hair and bodies. And the most common ways to do that is hijab!! Hijab is not meant for the Arabs only because the Quran isn't only for the Arab Muslims but for us all. Code of behavior.

“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31).

“O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 33:59)

[Pape]

that's offensive :sad:

not cool

we all bosnians

you slipped one there but i don't want FC. to retaliate and ban us all (i mean the entire forum)

zajebani su bosanci (znam jer sam jedan od njih a trebo bi i ti to znat :) )

im sorry :heart:

and you know I'm a man that loves to live on the edge :lol:

[Fenerliyim]

^^ So What do you guys think of those "Submitters" ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Submitters_International

The submitters are a religious group, founded by Rashad Khalifa.

Submitters considers themselves to be adhering to true Islam,
but prefer not to use the terms "Muslim" or "Islam," instead using the English equivalents: "Submitter" or "Submission." Submitters believe Khalifa was a messenger of God!!! :rolleyes:


any comments...?

they are goin to hell

[el Turco]

i'm talking about fake muslims

ones that don't submit to islam (but only partially)

falsely representing islam is or representing islam is part of that lesson 1


ok this is what i'm talking about



look Sinter, I've been receiving religious education throughout my life. I cant call myself a religious person, but I have enough Islamic knowledge like many ppl here to know that shirk is the biggest sin.
Here, this is what I found in two minutes about this issue.

Hadith: Hazrat Abdullah bin Mas’ud narrates that a person asked Rasulullah (s.a.s.), “Ya Rasulullah, according to Allah, which is the greatest sin?” Rasulullah (s.a.s.) answered, “To associate partners with Allah (known as shirk), while He has created you.” Then he was asked, “Which is the biggest sin after that?” And he (s.a.s.) said, “To kill your offspring because he will eat with you.” Then he was asked “Which is the greatest after that,” and he said, “To make zinna (fornication) with your neighbor’s wife.”

still not convinced? :)

You are rite about one thing. Being munafiq( this is wat u described) is one of the biggest sins. A munafiq will get more punishment that regular nonbeliever will get. But the biggest is shirk.

false


women don't have to wear hijab when you are praying

:lol: :lol: :lol:

this is completely wrong my friend.

There 6 requirements of salah or namaz.

1- Place where you pray has to be clean.
2- You have to be clean. (meaning u have to have wudu)
3- Satr-i Aurah. Men (from you knee to stomach) and women each are directed to cover their bodies (aurah) in reasonably loose-fitting garments. When in prayer, women must cover their heads.
4-Istikbal-i Qibla- Right qibla, of course.
5-Right Time
6- Niyet (Intention)

Any other questions you have, I will be more than happy to answer. :)


Sinter, is your first name Zekeriya and last name Beyaz. :lol: :lol: (just ignore it, it's a joke)

[Bosnian Unit]

Damn, this have nothing to do with anything anymore :boo: .

It says Bosnian politics.........ok we talked about Turkey for a while (allies:) thats fine) but we cant talk about religion now and all of this...

What is next Kashmir or Uzbekistan ?

[Pape]

Hahah common religion is the core of Bosnian politics :lol:

[Saraj Fanático]

So guys I am telling you Kashmir should be a independent state one day. What do you think? :lol:

[Pape]

I think all of this independence shit has become way too abused in the last decade :(

[el Turco]

Damn, this have nothing to do with anything anymore :boo: .

It says Bosnian politics.........ok we talked about Turkey for a while (allies:) thats fine) but we cant talk about religion now and all of this...

What is next Kashmir or Uzbekistan ?

oops. Sorry. :)


BTW, Kashmir should be indpendent. :D

[Centarfor9]

look Sinter, I've been receiving religious education throughout my life. I cant call myself a religious person, but I have enough Islamic knowledge like many ppl here to know that shirk is the biggest sin.
Here, this is what I found in two minutes about this issue.

Hadith: Hazrat Abdullah bin Mas’ud narrates that a person asked Rasulullah (s.a.s.), “Ya Rasulullah, according to Allah, which is the greatest sin?” Rasulullah (s.a.s.) answered, “To associate partners with Allah (known as shirk), while He has created you.” Then he was asked, “Which is the biggest sin after that?” And he (s.a.s.) said, “To kill your offspring because he will eat with you.” Then he was asked “Which is the greatest after that,” and he said, “To make zinna (fornication) with your neighbor’s wife.”

still not convinced? :)

You are rite about one thing. Being munafiq( this is wat u described) is one of the biggest sins. A munafiq will get more punishment that regular nonbeliever will get. But the biggest is shirk.



:lol: :lol: :lol:

this is completely wrong my friend.

There 6 requirements of salah or namaz.

1- Place where you pray has to be clean.
2- You have to be clean. (meaning u have to have wudu)
3- Satr-i Aurah. Men (from you knee to stomach) and women each are directed to cover their bodies (aurah) in reasonably loose-fitting garments. When in prayer, women must cover their heads.
4-Istikbal-i Qibla- Right qibla, of course.
5-Right Time
6- Niyet (Intention)

Any other questions you have, I will be more than happy to answer. :)


Sinter, is your first name Zekeriya and last name Beyaz. :lol: :lol: (just ignore it, it's a joke)
one and only reference for me is qur'an

p.s. where did half of my post go

Fenerliyim open a new thread called Islam in this politics section and transfer my post there and other post related to religion made in this thread

[BBBTG]

Jarane tko je ovdje najjaci igrac, mislim tko je boss od ovi moderatora?

[Saraj Fanático]

oops. Sorry. :)


BTW, Kashmir should be indpendent. :D


I agree. See Kashmir can be a major test for peace between two different peoples in Asia.. :)

Okay anyways back on topic. :lol:

[Bosnian Unit]

What about Rwanda ?

There was Tutsi-Hutu violence during Bosnian war, did they stop fighting ?


:rolleyes:

[Pape]

Jarane tko je ovdje najjaci igrac, mislim tko je boss od ovi moderatora?

vako ide po redu od naj slabijeg do naj jaceg
Pape
Fenerliyim - senior mod
Bosanac - senior mod
Omar and Tariq creators of this place who are never here

[boris4c]

20.06.2007
Bečki "Kurir" proglasio BiH "propalom državom"

U Evropi postoji jedna „propala država” - Bosna i Hercegovina - u kojoj ne funkcioniše privreda, ne postoji perspektiva i nema dovoljne bezbednosti za njene građane, ocenio je bečki dnevnik „Kurir”. „Više od jedne decenije nakon rata u BiH i dalje nema zajednice. Više milijardi evra pomoći za obnovu je prosleđeno od 1995. Bosni. Hiljade međunarodnih mirovnjaka se brine da između Srba, Hrvata i muslimana ne izbiju sukobi. Mir je nekako uspostavljen”, naveo je list. „Ono što Bosna još ne može to je da bez masivne podrške spoljna ne može da postoji. Ako bi mirovne snage bile povučene i obustavljena podrška Evropske unije, ta država bi se raspala - ponovo bi izbili haos, sukobi i došlo bi do novih talasa izbeglica”, upozorio je „Kurir”. List je podsetio da se više od polovine izbeglica, nakon rata, vratilo u Bosnu, gde su bili razočarani onim što su zatekli. „Njihova deca maštaju od drugom životu sa šansama za bolju budućnost, blagostanje i bezbednost”, piše bečki dnevnik.

[Centarfor9]

Kurir lol (enough said) :)

p.s. you waste time reading that sh*t

[Centarfor9]

U Evropi postoji jedna „propala država” - Bosna i Hercegovina - u kojoj ne funkcioniše privreda, ne postoji perspektiva i nema dovoljne bezbednosti za njene građane, ocenio je bečki dnevnik „Kurir”. „Više od jedne decenije nakon rata u BiH i dalje nema zajednice. Više milijardi evra pomoći za obnovu je prosleđeno od 1995. Bosni. Hiljade međunarodnih mirovnjaka se brine da između Srba, Hrvata i muslimana ne izbiju sukobi. Mir je nekako uspostavljen”, naveo je list. „Ono što Bosna još ne može to je da bez masivne podrške spoljna ne može da postoji. Ako bi mirovne snage bile povučene i obustavljena podrška Evropske unije, ta država bi se raspala - ponovo bi izbili haos, sukobi i došlo bi do novih talasa izbeglica”, upozorio je „Kurir”. List je podsetio da se više od polovine izbeglica, nakon rata, vratilo u Bosnu, gde su bili razočarani onim što su zatekli. „Njihova deca maštaju od drugom životu sa šansama za bolju budućnost, blagostanje i bezbednost”, piše bečki dnevnik.

all this is nothing new

except they stuck this titlle:
Bečki "Kurir" proglasio BiH "propalom državom"

lol

Kurir :)

[boris4c]

What is it with Kurir? If it was the Serbian newspapers called Kurir then I would waste my team reading this shit. But this is news from Austria.

Bec = Vienna.

[Centarfor9]

What is it with Kurir? If it was the Serbian newspapers called Kurir then I would waste my team reading this shit. But this is news from Austria.

Bec = Vienna.
:D

yeah sure why not :D

all this is true

Bosna i Hercegovina - u kojoj ne funkcioniše privreda, ne postoji perspektiva i nema dovoljne bezbednosti za njene građane, ocenio je bečki dnevnik „Kurir”. „Više od jedne decenije nakon rata u BiH i dalje nema zajednice. Više milijardi evra pomoći za obnovu je prosleđeno od 1995. Bosni. Hiljade međunarodnih mirovnjaka se brine da između Srba, Hrvata i muslimana ne izbiju sukobi. Mir je nekako uspostavljen”, naveo je list. „Ono što Bosna još ne može to je da bez masivne podrške spoljna ne može da postoji. Ako bi mirovne snage bile povučene i obustavljena podrška Evropske unije, ta država bi se raspala - ponovo bi izbili haos, sukobi i došlo bi do novih talasa izbeglica”, upozorio je „Kurir”. List je podsetio da se više od polovine izbeglica, nakon rata, vratilo u Bosnu, gde su bili razočarani onim što su zatekli. „Njihova deca maštaju od drugom životu sa šansama za bolju budućnost, blagostanje i bezbednost”, piše bečki dnevnik.

but the title and their claim has no basis to be based like such

[boris4c]

:rolleyes:

[boris4c]

Srđanu Aleksiću posthumno povelja za ljudskost u ratu
stana - 21. jun 2007.

http://www2.serbiancafe.com/lat/vesti/img/2007_06_20_srdja.jpg

Srđanu Aleksiću, Trebinjcu nastradalom u januaru 1993. godine braneći sugrađanina Bošnjaka, posthumno je dodeljena Povelja Helsinškog komiteta za ljudska prava u BiH za izuzetan doprinos na polju ljudskih prava. Najveće priznanje Helsinškog komiteta primio je Srđanov otac, Rade Aleksić. Uručenju nagrade prethodilo je prikazivanje dokumentarnog filma „Srđo”, autorke RTS-a Sanje Dragićević, posvećenog nastradalom Aleksiću, koji je emitovan u martu na RTS-u. U obrazloženju Helsinškog komiteta za dodeljivanje povelje ističe se da je Srđan svojim činom pokazao da se čovekom može biti i ostati i u teškim vremenima. Srđan Aleksić podlegao je 27. januara 1993. godine povredama dobijenim šest dana ranije braneći od četvorice napadača poznanika Alena Glavovića. Njegovi napadači osuđeni su na po dve godine i četiri meseca zatvora. Jedan od njih je poginuo na ratištu, a ostala trojica su odslužili svoje kazne. Glavović sada živi u Švedskoj.

Srđan Aleksić bio je juniorski rekorder u plivanju i bavio se amaterskim pozorištem. U njegovu čast i njegovog rođaka Maksima, poginulom u ratu, u Trebinju se svake godine održava plivački turnir „Srđan i Maksim”. Helsinški komitet za ljudska prava u BiH podržao je inicijativu da Srđanu u Trebinju bude podignut spomenik. Predsednik Helsinškog komiteta BiH Srđan Dizdarević prekinuo je sednicu nakon dodeljivanja Povelje, rekavši da je teško posle emocija izazvanih pričom o Srđanu Aleksiću nastaviti rad na svakodnevnim pitanjima. (RTS)

[Centarfor9]

Srđanu Aleksiću posthumno povelja za ljudskost u ratu
stana - 21. jun 2007.

http://www2.serbiancafe.com/lat/vesti/img/2007_06_20_srdja.jpg

Srđanu Aleksiću, Trebinjcu nastradalom u januaru 1993. godine braneći sugrađanina Bošnjaka, posthumno je dodeljena Povelja Helsinškog komiteta za ljudska prava u BiH za izuzetan doprinos na polju ljudskih prava. Najveće priznanje Helsinškog komiteta primio je Srđanov otac, Rade Aleksić. Uručenju nagrade prethodilo je prikazivanje dokumentarnog filma „Srđo”, autorke RTS-a Sanje Dragićević, posvećenog nastradalom Aleksiću, koji je emitovan u martu na RTS-u. U obrazloženju Helsinškog komiteta za dodeljivanje povelje ističe se da je Srđan svojim činom pokazao da se čovekom može biti i ostati i u teškim vremenima. Srđan Aleksić podlegao je 27. januara 1993. godine povredama dobijenim šest dana ranije braneći od četvorice napadača poznanika Alena Glavovića. Njegovi napadači osuđeni su na po dve godine i četiri meseca zatvora. Jedan od njih je poginuo na ratištu, a ostala trojica su odslužili svoje kazne. Glavović sada živi u Švedskoj.

Srđan Aleksić bio je juniorski rekorder u plivanju i bavio se amaterskim pozorištem. U njegovu čast i njegovog rođaka Maksima, poginulom u ratu, u Trebinju se svake godine održava plivački turnir „Srđan i Maksim”. Helsinški komitet za ljudska prava u BiH podržao je inicijativu da Srđanu u Trebinju bude podignut spomenik. Predsednik Helsinškog komiteta BiH Srđan Dizdarević prekinuo je sednicu nakon dodeljivanja Povelje, rekavši da je teško posle emocija izazvanih pričom o Srđanu Aleksiću nastaviti rad na svakodnevnim pitanjima. (RTS)
RIP

[Centarfor9]

Complexities of Islamic Extremism in the Balkans
by Christopher Deliso balkanalysis.com (http://balkanalysis.com/)
Being conditioned by political interests, and therefore being responsive primarily to political developments, Western media coverage of the Balkans tends to take insufficient notice of social and cultural issues – especially in cases where they have not yet manifested politically. This is one of the primary reasons why they are always (and not only in the Balkans) "too late" in getting to the heart of a story.

A case in point is the significant development of radical Islam in the Balkans, especially in Bosnia and the Sandzak region that straddles the Serbia-Montenegro border. While the media paid great attention to the May 21 referendum (http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2006/05/f79a845b-c9ca-442e-bae4-12b3f498ea87.html) that divided Serbia and Montenegro officially into two separate countries, they largely ignored related developments that are much more significant than the political independence of an Adriatic statelet that was for all intents and purposes already long liberated.

One such event, overlooked by everyone (though not by us (http://www.balkanalysis.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=676)), was reported by Serbia's B-92 on June 5. Apparently, an ethnic music concert in the Sandzak's major city of Novi Pazar was busted up by a gang of Islamic extremists, the celebrated Wahhabis:
"[T]en young men donning long beards, short pants, and white hats broke up a concert of the Balkanika orchestra. The hooligans were dressed like members of the vehabit [sic] movement. They climbed up onto the stage and threw around the instruments that were set up for the musicians to play. One of the young men took over the microphone and told those attending the concert: 'Brothers, go home, they are working against Islam here. This is Satan's work.'"

This bizarre event was not, however, unique. Various forms of thuggery and intimidation have been going on for the last few years in what has become one of the most extreme Islamic outposts in Europe. The Muslims of the Sandzak are mostly Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks), and see themselves as part of a contiguous nation despite the largely ineffectual international border that separates them from their ethnic kin to the north.

Bosnia: Enter the "Sharia Militia"
In fact, it has been in Bosnia itself that the Saudi-influenced Wahhabis have caused the most mischief. A recent AFP report (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060616/lf_afp/bosniasocietyreligion_060616163314) discusses some startling examples:
"[I]n February, a young man who recently converted to Wahhabism killed his mother reportedly because she refused to join him for morning prayers. After the murder, the 23-year-old went to a 'Wahhabi' mosque with blood on his hands and clothes, telling his fellow believers that he just made a 'sacrifice to God.'

"In addition, several young couples have complained to the local media and police that they had been harassed by 'bearded' men in parks while they were kissing and hugging."

The report quotes a recovering former Wahhabi, 26-year-old Jasmin Merdan, who has been appearing on Bosnian TV and other media in the past few months, urging his compatriots to stand up to the intimidation of what he calls the "Sharia militia," the extremists who seek to bring Bosnia "back" to a past it never had as a puritanical Islamic state.

While almost every media report is quick to note that the majority of Bosnian Muslims are fairly Westernized and not zealously religious – which is true – the uncomfortable issue of how the extremists took root is usually avoided. It is an especially embarrassing truth for the U.S., since it was the Clinton administration (http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/DCH109A.html) that directly allowed Islamic states to send mujahedin by the hundreds to Bosnia in the mid-1990s, in order to better defeat the Serbs – regardless of the long-term social and political consequences.

Now, the U.S. is demanding that those foreign fighters who remained, intermarried, and were given passports be deported; however, ensconced former mujahedin leaders are warning that there will be "problems" if the Bosnian government tries to enforce the U.S. request. In rural areas especially, fundamentalism has taken hold; according to an American policeman formerly employed in Bosnia, a handful of villages were even "given" to the mujahedin as rewards from the government for their military contributions.

And, despite the liberal air of Bosnia's capital, locals are concerned about the growing strength of the Arab-supported movement. AFP quotes Adnan, "a young Muslim who lives near the [Saudi-funded King Fahd] mosque" as saying, "sometimes I ask myself whether I am really in Sarajevo. The number of bearded men and women dressed in chadors will soon be equal to other people."

A Little History
The Islamic heritage in the Balkans derives from the Ottoman Turks, who ruled various parts of the huge region from the 14th century right up until the previous one. Wars, population exchanges, and Communism were the major reasons why Islam was greatly weakened in the Balkans throughout the 20th century. The history is complex and violent, and all the relevant countries have had different experiences, ranging from Greece, where Ottoman Islam was all but eradicated, to Bosnia, apparently now drifting toward Islamic rule.

When Islam finally made a comeback with the demise of Yugoslavia in the early 1990s, the issue was radicalized by the strong interest of foreign states that sought, and still seek, to colonize the region ideologically and economically. Thus history was not to be repeated; the "liberal" Turkish Islamic tradition was no longer the only option for a religious revival. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Malaysia, and many more sought to make their mark on the region through all of the usual methods: Islamic charities, schools, development projects, Islamic finance and loans, literature and video propaganda, and, in certain cases, armed assistance from foreign mujahedin.

This ongoing and intense colonization effort has been complicated by the fact that the foreign players do not necessarily share the same goals, nor do they all operate from the same doctrinal schools as one another. And of course, they have little in common with the collective experience, traditions, and lifestyle of local Muslims. Further, these Balkan inhabitants have their own internal distinctions, schisms and varying beliefs – even leaving out the issue of foreign influence.

A New Identity
This is why it is neither accurate nor helpful to generalize, as many do, that specific ethnic groups are more or less inclined to extremism or sectarianism. Where the fundamentalist doctrine has taken hold depends far more on local realities. Ethnically Macedonian (Torbeshi) or Bulgarian (Pomak) Muslims, for example, are susceptible to foreign overtures (http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0214/p06s02-woeu.html) due to a history of having the "wrong" mix of race and religion in areas dominated by people whose ethnic and religious combinations follow traditional norms. Residents of an impoverished Albanian village, or Roma slum, might on the other hand see an immediate economic benefit in "converting" to an Islamic sect that offers financial incentives for husbands to grow beards and veil their wives. And in places like Bosnia and to a lesser extent Kosovo, the traumas of war have had a radicalizing effect.

Although the reasons for and rates of fundamentalist growth may vary, one thing becomes clear through experience on the ground: that an Islamic identity is becoming more and more important to Balkan Muslims than a simply nationalist one. Political and religious leaders thus are gaining more power and using religious issues to shape policy and society (though of course it should be noted that, as with the former Wahhabi critics in Sarajevo, a backlash is also now being felt).

In political campaigns, ostensibly irreligious party bosses are appealing to Muslim voters by building them new mosques. In internal disputes, such as the one that paralyzed Macedonia's Islamic community (http://www.worldpress.org/Europe/2153.cfm) until early this year, political leaders have been asked (http://www.crisisgroup.org/home/index.cfm?id=3869&l=1) to mediate. The role of Islam in society is now more pervasive than at any time since before the Balkan Wars of 1912-1913 (http://www.balkanalysis.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=325), when the Ottoman Empire was driven from Macedonia and much of Thrace. And as political agitations in the region continue to develop with the knock-on effects of Montenegro's referendum for independence and Kosovo's likely upcoming independence to be felt in Sandzak, south Serbia, Macedonia, and Bosnia, it is certain that the role of religion is only going to increase in the years ahead.

Competing Interests
Steering the increasingly high-stakes battle for Islamic control in the Balkans are interested parties from abroad and from within the countries involved. Given its former Ottoman legacy, politically involved Turkey (http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&hn=34086) is naturally eager to reclaim its influence. The Turks are also concerned, especially in Macedonia and Kosovo, over attempts to appropriate "their" history and Islamic buildings by local Albanians, in some cases acting under the influence of another major player, Saudi Arabia. Several mosques in both places – priceless historical and architectural structures – have been taken over by Wahhabi proselytizers and their Albanian devotees. In a few cases in Kosovo, the foreign zealots have shocked locals by demolishing "idolatrous" objects such as centuries-old Ottoman gravestones.

At the same time, the quasi-secular nature of the Turkish Republic has made the Balkans (and especially Bosnia) a place where young Muslims can get away with things they can't do at home (ironically similar to how Western peacekeepers see in far-flung postings the possibility to enjoy exploitative acts illegal in their home countries). This can be attested by the increasing number of young Turks studying in Bosnia (http://skyscrapercity.com/archive/index.php/t-325508.html), where, unlike Turkey, the head scarf is acceptable attire for students. Turkey has also taken a strong interest in the Sandzak, as well as in the politically significant Turkish minority of Bulgaria.

Local Muslim political authorities and Islamic leaders throughout the Balkans have developed strong and competing relationships with foreign sponsors – making the whole picture more opaque still. The phenomenon has manifested in a myriad of charities and development agencies that often operate through more than one country, and engage in more than the stated goal of helping the poor or educating children. Specific cases of brazen terrorists hiding behind allegedly harmless groups are not unheard of, as I have reported (http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=7269) in the past.

The whole issue has been complicated further by partisanship. Passionate defenders or attackers of entire nations tend to over-generalize in their categorizations. It is not a question of whether a certain ethnic or national group is either virulently extremist or "mostly liberal" in its practice of Islam. The question is whether specific local realities have created the conditions for at least a small number of dangerous extremists to flourish.

For example, has massive funding from abroad caused an alien tradition to take root (i.e., Bosnia)? Or, have geographic conditions allowed renegade extremists to carve out a safe haven (i.e., remote mountain villages in Macedonia, Albania, and elsewhere)? Or perhaps has a weak economy forced local Muslims to work abroad, where they fall under the influence of radical mullahs, or else accept monthly stipends at home for "conversion" (i.e., almost everywhere)?

In fact, the whole argument over whether or not the Albanians, or Bosnians, or whoever are prone to extremism is not really relevant. In the big picture, the question is just about the expansion of Islam in general. As with any other group in the history of the world, the tendency toward schism and polarization in Balkan Islamic societies grows in direct proportion to the growth of the community. It is simply a question of scale. And, given demographic projections over the coming decades, the amount of potentially dangerous Balkan Islamists will only increase, even if their percentage relative to the larger community decreases (though the latter outcome is itself far from certain). Indeed, as we saw on Sept. 11, 2001, it doesn't take many extremists to produce a major effect.

Strategic Goals
Nevertheless, the strategic goal of the governments of Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, and so on is not to create a generation of Balkan suicide bombers (this is the goal of the terrorist multinationals, which include nationals of such states). The goal of the former is to establish religious and thus political control in order to expand their markets and to increase their diplomatic clout vis-à-vis the European Union, and to a lesser extent America.

While the new challenge of radical Islam in the Balkans cannot be blamed entirely on the previous 15 years of Western intervention in the region, there is no question that had it considered the long-term developing trends back then, the West and especially the U.S. could have done much more to stifle it. But it is too late now to put the genie back in the bottle. The toxic mix of religious fervor and clumsy interventionism has resulted in an uneasy state of affairs now where an overwhelmingly Muslim province (Kosovo) wants to break away from Serbia, with the counterbalancing threat (http://www.serbianna.com/news/2006/01841.shtml) from the Christian Serb half of the Bosnian Federation to join Serbia.

The former case has displayed more than enough ominous signs (http://antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=8793) already. But the greater danger may lie with Bosnia. The continued presence of the oft-criticized Republika Srpska is actually what is keeping confidence in the federation alive. Should the Serbs break away, life for Christian Croats in the Muslim-dominated half of Bosnia will become precarious, old animosities will be rekindled, and the path to an Islamic state for the Muslim half of Bosnia will be cleared, with the extremists having nothing left to lose.

Yet even in the best-case scenario, in which Bosnia would stay as one and a "liberated" Kosovo would become shamelessly pro-Western and docile, there are simply more than enough troublemakers around the neighborhood, now and in the foreseeable future.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is what happens when somebody who has no idea about Bosnia writes something. Or maybe he is just trying to entertain me. :lol:

[boris4c]

Rasim Delić otputovao u Hag
Ponedeljak, 25. jun 2007. 18:41

Penzionisani general Armije BiH i bivši komandant Glavnog štaba Armije Republike BiH Rasim Delić, kojem 9. jula treba da počne sudjenje u Haškom tribunalu, otputovao je u ponedeljak iz Sarajeva u Hag.

Rasima Delića je Haški tribunal optužio za posrednu komandnu odgovornost za zločine jedinice El mudžahid počinjene tokom proteklog rata nad Srbima na području Ozrena i Vozuće.

Delić se na svom prvom pojavljivanju pred haškim sudijama izjasnio da nije kriv za zločine koje mu pripisuje optužnica. Po sve četiri tačke haške optužnice, koje mu na teret stavljaju ubistva, okrutne postupke i silovanja, Rasim Delić je izjavio da nije kriv.

Ne oseća se krivim ni pred tvrdnjom haških tužitelja da je kao zapovednik snaga Armije BiH trebalo da spreči zločine i u svakom slučaju kazni njihove počinitelje. Optužnica ga tereti za ubistvo i ranjavanje više pripadnika HVO, juna 1993. godine kod Travnika, zatim brutalno ubistvo pripadnika VRS i okrutno
postupanje prema zarobljenicima logora Kamenica.

Od napada na Vozuću, na planini Ozren, septembra 1995. godine, za 60 srpskih vojnika, zarobljenih tokom napada, gubi se svaki trag - njihov nestanak i verovatno ubistvo, navedeni su takodje u haškoj optužnici.

Iako su direktni izvršitelji svih ovih zločina pripadnici jedinice mudžahedina, osnovane Delićevom naredbom, zapovedna odovornost za zločine je, prema tužiteljima, jasna - leži na nekadašnjem zapovedniku Armije BiH.

Nakon podizanja optužnice Haškog tribunala, Delić je dobrovoljno je otišao i pojavio se pred Haškim tribunalom februara 2005. godine, a maja iste godine privremeno je pušten na slobodu.

Iako je optužen za najveće zločine Delić je iz Sarajeva ispraćen kao heroj jer su ga, pored rodbine i prijatelja, u Hag ispratili i mnogi zvaničnici iz Federacije BiH. :worried:

Osim predstavnika boračkih udruženja, ispratiti su ga federalni ministar za boračka pitanja Zahid Crnkić, ministar za boračka pitanja u Kantonu Sarajevo Hajrudin Ibrahimović te kantonalni ministar obrazovanja Safet Kešo i ministar kulture i sporta Emir Hadžihafizbegović. U pratnji je bio i jedan od ratnih komandanata u Armiji Republike BiH, general Sakib Mahmuljin.

U izjavama novinarima, Ahmet Kadrić, borac iz proteklog rata, kao i Mahmuljin te ministar Hadžihafizbegović, kazali su da veruju u povratak generala Delića u BiH kao slobodnog čoveka.

Prema njihovim očekivanjima, Delić će u Hagu odbraniti istinu o herojskoj odbrani BiH i očuvanju njenih granica tokom proteklog rata.

"Ide da iščita nekoliko dobrih knjiga i da se vrati u BiH", reči su kantonalnog ministra kulture i sporta Emira Hadžihafizbegovića. Novinarima je ministar još rekao da je njegov dolazak na ispraćaj gradjanski čin jer je bivši pripadnik Armije, Delićev prijatelj i prijatelj njegove porodice.

[Centarfor9]

"Ide da iščita nekoliko dobrih knjiga i da se vrati u BiH"
to je istina

njegove jedinice nisu pocinile nikakav zlocin

mozda su oni arapi ubili kojeg taoca i tako slicno al njegove brigade nisu

ako je kriv nek i on malo odmori --- zeni treba rec da mu u celofan zapakuje bureka, cevapa, pornica, malo rakije, i spreman je da ohladi dvje tri godine

[Centarfor9]

evo kako je bilo

sve o "gradjanskom ratu" u bosni i hercegovini i o reziji Srebrenica u 10 minuta

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hFsoFbFfqo

[boris4c]

dobar video

najsmesnije je kad se rukuju milosevic, tudjman i izetbegovic :lol:

[Centarfor9]

dobar video

najsmesnije je kad se rukuju milosevic, tudjman i izetbegovic :lol:
meni je cijeli video smjesan

jer nema zrna istine

[boris4c]

ma smesan si i ti meni :)

vrlo dobro znas da postoje tri istine

[Centarfor9]

ma smesan si i ti meni :)

vrlo dobro znas da postoje tri istine
postoji mnogo vise istina

ali ono nije vidjelo istine a ni logike

sta je poenta ote montaze?

[boris4c]

Pitaj ti CNN-a sta je bila poenta svih onih montaza. :)

[BBBTG]

ISTINA JE SAMO JEDNA, CIJELI SVIJET ZNA TKO JE ŽRTVA A KO AGRESOR:sad:

[boris4c]

Nazalost sveta boli tuki a ogromna vecina njih nema pojma ni gde se nalazi Bosna na mapi (?!)

[BBBTG]

E moj pajdo svijet zbog rata i zna di je Bosna a o sarajevu da ne govorim

[boris4c]

Brate gde ti zivis?!

Ja zivim u Kanadi i ljudi nemaju pojma gde je Bosna a o Sarajevu da ne pricam. Ne zna se ni da je bio rat a kamoli sta se sve izdesavalo. (nazalost)

[BBBTG]

Ma pusti ti glupane, pođi malo po europi i samo spomeni europu i sarajevo

[boris4c]

Ih sad, pa ajde podji po Srbiji i pitaj sta je Bosna. Normalno da ce ljudi znati, isto vazi za Evropu. (mada sam ziveo i u Evropi i dosta ih nema pojma). Culo se po Evropi zato sto se izdesavalo na njenoj teritoriji, a o Juznoj/Severnoj Americi, Aziji, Africi, Australiji, da ne pricam.
---

Uostalom,

U Sarajevu ubijen Ramiz Delalić Ćelo
28. jun 2007.

http://www2.serbiancafe.com/lat/vesti/img/2007_06_28_celo.jpg

U Sarajevu je u sredu uveče ubijen Ramiz Delalić-Ćelo, poznat po sudskom procesu zbog sumnje da je pucao na srpskog svata 1992. godine u Sarajevu, saznaje agencija Beta iz izvora bliskih policiji. Kantonalno tužilaštvo u Sarajevu podnelo je krajem 2004. godine optužnicu protiv Delalića zbog sumnje da je iz neposredne blizine iz pištolja pucao ispred pravoslavne crkve na sarajevskoj Baščaršiji u srpskog svata Nikolu Gardovića, koji je podlegao zadobijenim povredama.
Delalić je od 2002. godine bio nedostupan policiji, ali je uhapšen 28. avgusta 2004. godine u Sarajevu.

Više puta je bio u sukobu sa zakonom zbog drugih krivičnih dela i nasilničkog ponašanja.

Tokom rata u BiH, Ramiz Delalić bio je na dužnosti komandanta 9. motorizovane brigade sarajevskog korpusa Armije BiH.

Detalji ubistva Ramiza Delalića i način na koji je ubijen, biće javnosti poznati kasnije.

Delalić je rođen 1963. godine u Prijepolju, u Srbiji. (Beta)

[BBBTG]

Jedan kriminalac manje

[Centarfor9]

Gdje god ima bosanaca tu se zna da ima Bosna

[boris4c]

Tacno, to vazi za bilo koju zemlju (ko na primer Libanci ovde kod nas :))

[Centarfor9]

^ nemozes njih poredit sa nama (mada su i oni poznati)

bosanaca ima svugdje pa svi i znaju za nas

sve zemlje evrope i zemlje muslimanskog svjeta nas znaju

mozda svi neznaju gdje je bosna na karti u evropi ali znaju da je tu negdje

Amerikanci neznaju gdje je Nju Jork drzava ali znaju o Nju Jorku

tako oni ko neznaju gdje je Bosna znaju o Bosni

[boris4c]

Ma jebes ti to Libanaca ima najvise :P

Nego, Srba ima jos vise u inostranstvu ali niko te nikad nece pitati za rat ili slicne stvari. Kad im ti kazes, vidis da nemaju pojma ljudi. Evo ovde ljudi trenutno sve znaju o Avganistanu i Iraku (cuju na tv-u) a o ostalom - tuki.

[Centarfor9]

^ mislis

vjerovatno da nece ali za jedno 10 - 20 godina

[BBBTG]

O dijaspori se moze svasta pricat, a hrvatska je među jacima, nema kutka zemlje u kojem nas nema

[Centarfor9]

http://img.youtube.com/vi/oqjecTL0mLQ/default.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqjecTL0mLQ)
Talk to Jazeera - Haris Silajdzic - 07 May 07 - Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqjecTL0mLQ)

http://img.youtube.com/vi/BI8IGxMlMO4/default.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI8IGxMlMO4)
Talk to Jazeera - Haris Silajdzic - 07 May 07 - Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI8IGxMlMO4)

i don't like the guy but he makes sense

[Centarfor9]

Ih sad, pa ajde podji po Srbiji i pitaj sta je Bosna. Normalno da ce ljudi znati, isto vazi za Evropu. (mada sam ziveo i u Evropi i dosta ih nema pojma). Culo se po Evropi zato sto se izdesavalo na njenoj teritoriji, a o Juznoj/Severnoj Americi, Aziji, Africi, Australiji, da ne pricam.
---

Uostalom,

U Sarajevu ubijen Ramiz Delalić Ćelo
28. jun 2007.

http://www2.serbiancafe.com/lat/vesti/img/2007_06_28_celo.jpg

U Sarajevu je u sredu uveče ubijen Ramiz Delalić-Ćelo, poznat po sudskom procesu zbog sumnje da je pucao na srpskog svata 1992. godine u Sarajevu, saznaje agencija Beta iz izvora bliskih policiji. Kantonalno tužilaštvo u Sarajevu podnelo je krajem 2004. godine optužnicu protiv Delalića zbog sumnje da je iz neposredne blizine iz pištolja pucao ispred pravoslavne crkve na sarajevskoj Baščaršiji u srpskog svata Nikolu Gardovića, koji je podlegao zadobijenim povredama.
Delalić je od 2002. godine bio nedostupan policiji, ali je uhapšen 28. avgusta 2004. godine u Sarajevu.

Više puta je bio u sukobu sa zakonom zbog drugih krivičnih dela i nasilničkog ponašanja.

Tokom rata u BiH, Ramiz Delalić bio je na dužnosti komandanta 9. motorizovane brigade sarajevskog korpusa Armije BiH.

Detalji ubistva Ramiza Delalića i način na koji je ubijen, biće javnosti poznati kasnije.

Delalić je rođen 1963. godine u Prijepolju, u Srbiji. (Beta)
rokno ga neki sa kosova

MUP KS: Ramiza Delalića Ćelu likvidirala ista osoba koja je pokušala ubiti Amira Pašića Faću

Lirim Bitići (Lirim Bytiqi) zvani Svrka (29) iz Prizrena, nastanjen u Suvoj Reci u mjestu Semetište na Kosovu, državljanin Srbije, osumnjičen je da je u srijedu pola sata prije ponoći u centru Sarajeva ubio Ramiza Delalića Ćelu (44) iz Sarajeva, potvrđeno je MUP-u Kantona Sarajevo.


Intenzivna potraga

Bitići je u bjekstvu te je za njim raspisana potjernica. Ovo je, inače, već druga potjernica koju je u posljednje vrijeme MUP KS raspisao za ovim 29-godišnjakom.

Bitići je osumnjičen i da je 12. juna na Baščaršiji hicem iz pištolja teško ranio Amira Pašića Faću (36) iz Sarajeva. Sa njim se tada nalazila još jedna nepoznata osoba.

"Tokom istrage koja je provedena u saradnji sa Kantonalnim tužilaštvom Sarajevo došlo se do podataka i sumnje o mogućim izvršiocima ubistva Ramiza Delalića Ćele, a radi se o Lirimu Bitićiju i još jednoj osobi čiji nam je identitet djelimično poznat. MUP Kantona Sarajevo i Kantonalno tužilaštvo Sarajevo preduzimaju mjere i radnje u cilju lociranja i hapšenja osumnjičenih osoba", navedeno je u saopćenju MUP-a KS.

Obustava postupaka

Delalić je izrešetan hicima iz vatrenog oružja u klasičnoj sačekuši. Napad se desio u dvorištu zgrade u Odobašinoj ulici na broju 1. I jučer su ispred spomenute zgrade bile policijske patrole.

Kako je već poznato, Delaliću se na Kantonalnom sudu u Sarajevu sudilo za ubistvo srpskog svata, a protiv njega se vodilo još nekoliko postupaka.
"S obzirom na to da je nastupio smrtni slučaj u svakom predmetu u kojem je osumnjičen Ramiz Delalić, u skladu sa zakonom Tužilaštv