The Rise of the Fourth Reich

[Bosnian Unit]

The Rise of the Fourth Reich


May 25, 2003 - 09:18

by Anonymous

Everyone likes to say, "Hitler did this,” and "Hitler did that.” But the truth is: Hitler did very little. He was a world class tyrant, but the evil actually done by the Third Reich, from the death camps to WWII, was all done by German citizens who were afraid to question if what they were told by their government was the truth or not, and who, because they did not want to admit to themselves that they were afraid to question the government, refused to see the truth behind the Reichstag Fire, refused to see the invasion by Poland was a staged fake, and followed Hitler into national disaster.

The German people of the late 1930s imagined themselves to be brave. They saw themselves as the heroic Germans depicted by the Wagnerian Operas, the descendants of the fierce Germanic warriors who had hunted wild boar with nothing but spears and who had defeated three of Rome's mightiest legions in the Tuetenberg Forest.

But in truth, by the 1930s, the German people had become civilized and tamed, culturally obsessed with fine details in both science and society. Their self-image of bravery was both salve and slavery. Germans were required to behave as if they were brave, even when they were not. It's easy to look back and realize what a jerk Hitler was. But at the time, Hitler looked pretty good to the German people, with the help of the media. He was TIME Magazine's Man of the Year in 1938. The German people assumed they were safe from a tyrant. They lived in a Republic, after all, with strict laws regarding what the government could, and more importantly, could not do. Their leader was a devoutly religious man, and had even sung with the boy's choir of a monastery in his youth.

The reality was that the German people, as individuals, had lost their courage. The German government preferred it that way as a fearful people are easier to rule than a courageous one. But the German people didn't wish to lose their self-image of courage. So, when confronted with a situation demanding individual courage in the form of a government gone wrong, the German people simply pretended that the situation did not exist. And in that simple self-deception lay the ruin of an entire nation and the coming of the Second World War.

When the Reichstag burned down, most Germans simply refused to believe suggestions that the fire had been staged by Hitler himself. They were afraid to. But so trapped were the Germans by their belief in their own bravery that they willed themselves to be blind to the evidence before their eyes so that they could nod in agreement with Der Fuhrer while still imagining themselves to have courage, even as they avoided the one situation which most required real courage; to stand up to Hitler's lies and deceptions.

When Hitler requested temporary extraordinary powers, powers specifically banned under German law, but powers Hitler claimed he needed to have to deal with the "terrorists", the German people, having already sold their souls to their self-delusions, agreed. The temporary powers were conferred, and once conferred lasted until Germany itself was destroyed.

When Hitler staged a phony invasion from Poland, the vast majority of the German people, their own self-image dependant on continuing blindness to Hitler's deceptions, did not question why Poland would have done something so stupid, and found themselves in a war.

But Hitler knew he ruled a nation of cowards, and knew he had to spend the money to make the new war something cowards could fight and win. He decorated his troops with regalia to make them proud of themselves, further trapping them in their self-image. Hitler copied the parade regalia of ancient Rome to remind the Germans of the defeat of the legions at the Tuetenberg Forest. Talismans were added from orthodox religions and the occult to fill the soldiers with delusions of mystical strengths and an afterlife if they fell in battle. Finally, knowing that it takes courage to kill the enemy face to face, Hitler spent vast sums of money on his wonder weapons, airplanes, submarines, ultra-long range artillery, the world's first cruise missile and the world's first guided missile, weapons that could be used to kill at a distance so that those doing the killing need not have to face the reality of what they were doing.

The German people were lured into WWII not because they were brave, but because they were cowards who wanted to be seen as brave, and found that shooting long range weapons at people they could not see took less courage than standing up to Hitler. Sent into battle by that false image of courage, the Germans were dependent on their wonder-weapons. When the wonder-weapons stopped working, the Germans lost the war.

I remember as a child listening to the stories of WWII from my grandfather and my uncles who had served in Europe. I wondered how the German people could have been so stupid as to have ever elected Hitler dog catcher, let alone leader of the nation. Such is the clarity of historical hindsight. And with that clarity, I see the exact same mechanism that Hitler used at work here in this nation.

The American people imagine themselves to be brave. They see themselves as the heroic Americans depicted by Western movies, the descendants of the fierce patriot warriors who had tamed the frontier and defeated the might of the British Empire.

But in truth, by the dawn of the third millennium, the American people have become civilized and tamed, culturally obsessed with fine details in both science and society. Their self-image of bravery is both salve and slavery. Americans are required to behave as if they are brave, even when they are not. The American people assume they are safe. They live in a Republic, after all, with strict laws regarding what the government can, and more importantly, cannot do. Their leader is a devoutly religious man.

The reality is that the American people, as individuals, have lost their courage. The government prefers it that way, as a fearful people are easier to rule than a courageous one. But Americans don't wish to lose their self-image of courage. So, when confronted with a situation demanding courage in the form of a government gone wrong, the American people simply pretend that the situation does not exist.

When the World Trade Towers collapsed, most Americans simply refused to believe suggestions that the attacks had been staged by parties working for the U.S. Government itself. Americans were afraid to, even as news reports surfaced proving that the U.S. Government had announced plans for the invasion of Afghanistan early in the year, plans into which the attacks on the World Trade Towers which angered the American people into support of the already-planned war fit entirely too conveniently. But so trapped are Americans by their belief in their own bravery that they will themselves to be blind to the evidence before their eyes so that they can nod in agreement with the government while still imagining themselves to have courage, even as they avoid the one situation which most requires real courage; to stand up to the government's lies and deceptions. The vast majority of the American people, their own self-image dependant on continuing blindness to the government's deceptions, never question why Afghanistan would have done something so stupid as to attack the United States, and as a result, Americans find themselves in a war.

Now the U.S. Government has requested temporary extraordinary powers, powers specifically banned under Constitutional law, but powers the government is claiming they need to have to deal with the "terrorists". The American people, having already sold their souls to their self-delusions, are agreeing. The temporary powers recently conferred will be no more temporary in America than they were in Germany.

The U.S. Government knows they rule a nation of cowards. The government has had to spend the money to make the new war something cowards can fight. The government has decorated the troops with regalia to make them proud of themselves, further trapping them in their self-image. Talismans are added from orthodox religions and the occult to fill the soldiers with delusions of mystical strengths and an afterlife if they fall in battle. Finally, knowing that it takes courage to kill the enemy face to face, the United States government has spent vast sums of money on wonder weapons, airplanes, submarines, ultra-long range artillery, cruise missiles, and guided missiles, weapons that kill at a distance so that those doing the killing need not have to face the reality of what they are doing.

As I mentioned above, Hitler was TIME Magazine's Man of the Year in 1938. Stalin was TIME Magazine's Man of the Year for 1939 and 1942. Both of these men, and many others also celebrated by the media, were unimaginable monsters. The lesson from these facts is that it isn't easy to spot a genocidal tyrant when you live with one, especially one whom the press supports and promotes. Tyrants become obvious only when looking back - after what they have done becomes known. The German people did not stand up to Hitler because their media betrayed them, just as the American media is betraying the American people by willingly, voluntarily, even proudly, abandoning its traditional role as watchdog against government abuse.

It is the very nature of power that it attracts the sort of people who should not have it. The United States, as the world's last superpower, is a prize that attracts men and women willing to do absolutely anything to win that power, and hence are also willing to do absolutely anything with that power once they have it. If one thinks about it long enough, one will realize that all tyrants, past and most especially present, MUST use deception on their population to initiate a war. No citizen of a modern industrialized nation will send their children off to die in a war to grab another nation's resources and assets, yet resources and assets are what all wars are fought over. The nation that wishes to initiate a war of conquest must create the illusion of an attack or a threat to start a war, and must always give their population of cowards an excuse never to question that carefully crafted illusion.

It is naive, not to mention racist, to assume that tyrants appear only in other nations and that somehow America is immune simply because we're Americans. America has escaped the clutches of a dictatorship thus far only through the efforts of those citizens who, unlike the Germans of the 1930s, have the moral courage to stand up and point out where the government is lying to the people. And unless more Americans are willing to have that kind of individual courage, then future generations may well look back on the American people with the same harshness of judgment with which we look back on the 1930s Germans.

[Pape]

Dude I don't want to be a little bitch but I have never read one of your long ass posts like this. Can you sum it up in one or two paragraphs if you want your msg to get out there?

[baj]

Yeh can someone spend an hour reading it then sum it for us people who like me and the above can't be arsed.

[kram]

[SIZE="3"]

[B][I]When the World Trade Towers collapsed, most Americans simply refused to believe suggestions that the attacks had been staged by parties working for the U.S. Government itself. Americans were afraid to, even as news reports surfaced proving that the U.S. Government had announced plans for the invasion of Afghanistan early in the year, plans into which the attacks on the World Trade Towers which angered the American people into support of the already-planned war fit entirely too conveniently. But so trapped are Americans by their belief in their own bravery that they will themselves to be blind to the evidence before their eyes so that they can nod in agreement with the government while still imagining themselves to have courage, even as they avoid the one situation which most requires real courage; to stand up to the government's lies and deceptions. The vast majority of the American people, their own self-image dependant on continuing blindness to the government's deceptions, never question why Afghanistan would have done something so stupid as to attack the United States, and as a result, Americans find themselves in a war.

Whatever credibility that you may have established in your post was lost with the above statement. And what you fail to mention is that unlike Nazi Germany, free speach has always been valued in America and there are plenty of people that oppose and question the actions of the President. There are many of his policies that I don't agree with.

[Bosnian Unit]

Whatever credibility that you may have established in your post was lost with the above statement. And what you fail to mention is that unlike Nazi Germany, free speach has always been valued in America and there are plenty of people that oppose and question the actions of the President. There are many of his policies that I don't agree with.

Yea free speech but your goverment doesnt give a damn what you people think :boo: . They do whatever they want to, and then they explain to you that its suppose to be like that what they did.

And then average Joe hear that few times on CNN and he belives it :boo: !

[nachi88]

Dude I don't want to be a little bitch but I have never read one of your long ass posts like this. Can you sum it up in one or two paragraphs if you want your msg to get out there?

hahaha :lol:
Totally agree.

[baj]

Your signature, did you come up with that your self or have you robbed it cos that is a quite genius statement.

[())__Green__))>]

Whatever credibility that you may have established in your post was lost with the above statement. And what you fail to mention is that unlike Nazi Germany, free speach has always been valued in America and there are plenty of people that oppose and question the actions of the President. There are many of his policies that I don't agree with.

yeah ok there, cut the b.s.
in america, if you say you are muslim.. you are right away looked as a terrorist
and even in airports they are more tighter on brown guys and will question him for hours than the average white male
there is no freedom of speech.. one thing u say can end u up in jail

[nachi88]

yeah ok there, cut the b.s.
in america, if you say you are muslim.. you are right away looked as a terrorist
and even in airports they are more tighter on brown guys and will question him for hours than the average white male
there is no freedom of speech.. one thing u say can end u up in jail

thats true. But in Amerika, muslims can exist, practice their religion, preach their religion, build mosques etc. But In Saudi, and a few other countries, Jews cannot even exist. And people of other faiths cannot openly practice or preach their faith? Are they scared of other religions that they do not allow other preachers? Seems so.

[nachi88]

Your signature, did you come up with that your self or have you robbed it cos that is a quite genius statement.

Well, Thank you.

No its not one of my own.

Its a comment passed on morality and religion by Friedrich Nietzsche.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche

[())__Green__))>]

yeah you have some valid points...
but we have to stick to the point
Hitler.. Germany.. WW2..
hitler was a great man.. he improved the german economy and did various things to help the german people have a better life.. i did support that
but the only thing i didnt support was the whole war

[Bosnian Unit]

thats true. But in Amerika, muslims can exist, practice their religion, preach their religion, build mosques etc. But In Saudi, and a few other countries, Jews cannot even exist. And people of other faiths cannot openly practice or preach their faith? Are they scared of other religions that they do not allow other preachers? Seems so.

Just in Saudi Arabia you cant build Church becouse it is a Holly Land.

In any other Islamic/Muslim country you can and THERE IS CHURCES.


Let me ask you..............

Can we build a Mosque in Vatican ?


:lol: NO WAY......ITS HOLLY LAND, right ?

So dont be naive.............Iran,Iraq,Syria,Indonesia,Kuwait,Jordan,Yemen,Lebanon,Turkey,Kazahstan,Bosnia & Herzegovina, Malaysia,Egypt,Tunisia,Algeria you name it there is Christians,Jews and there is Churces there also.

[nachi88]

Just in Saudi Arabia you cant build Church becouse it is a Holly Land.

In any other Islamic/Muslim country you can and THERE IS CHURCES.


Let me ask you..............

Can we build a Mosque in Vatican ?


:lol: NO WAY......ITS HOLLY LAND, right ?

So dont be naive.............Iran,Iraq,Syria,Indonesia,Kuwait,Jordan,Yemen,Lebanon,Turkey,Kazahstan,Bosnia & Herzegovina, Malaysia,Egypt,Tunisia,Algeria you name it there is Christians,Jews and there is Churces there also.

You cannot preach Christianity or any other faith in any of the following countries- Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Iran, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Kuwait. If you do, you are punishable by death.
Besides, the holy land is Mekkah and Medina and area in between. Why should there be no church or Buddhist Pagoda in Riyadh or Dammam? The whole land is not holy. Thats like saying all Mosques should be closed in Italy, because the vatican is a holy land.

[Bosnian Unit]

You cannot preach Christianity or any other faith in any of the following countries- Saudi, UAE, Qatar, Iran, Oman, Yemen, Bahrain, Kuwait. If you do, you are punishable by death.
Besides, the holy land is Mekkah and Medina and area in between. Why should there be no church or Buddhist Pagoda in Riyadh or Dammam? The whole land is not holy. Thats like saying all Mosques should be closed in Italy, because the vatican is a holy land.

Isnt a Vatican a state in the state ?

Yes it is, the fact is Vatican is like the most powerful state in the world.They dont have weapons, but when it comes to politics and everything else, they have their fingers in all that since of begining of time.


Church in Kuwait
http://www.csikuwait.org/img/church.jpg

Kuwait
http://danielschereck.com/wp2002kuwait/imageskuwait/r20021010-churchcross.jpg

Church in Dubai,UAE
http://sor.cua.edu/ChMon/UAEMal/DubaiSIgnatiusInt.jpg


Church in Isafan,IRAN
http://www.anytravels.com/photo/iran01.jpg

Church in Ghazvin,IRAN
http://www.farsinet.com/iranchurches/images/page68b.jpg

Church in Muscat,Oman
http://news.adventist.org/data/2005/10/1131480091/muscat%20church%20celebratory%20cake.jpg


So Please dont spread that CNN/western media propaganda. Here you can see with you own eyes.

[ItalianBoy]

Bosnian Unit, you are pretty much saying America is the next Nazi govt well, you are not only full of shit, but should be banned for propaganda. I am asking for you to be IP banned.

[BlueArsedFly]

in america, if you say you are muslim.. you are right away looked as a terrorist
and even in airports they are more tighter on brown guys and will question him for hours than the average white male
there is no freedom of speech.. one thing u say can end u up in jail

well since all the shit has been caused by muslim terrorists, who the hell else should the authorities be concentrating on?? japanese, chinese, eskimos???

[nachi88]

Isnt a Vatican a state in the state ?

Yes it is, the fact is Vatican is like the most powerful state in the world.They dont have weapons, but when it comes to politics and everything else, they have their fingers in all that since of begining of time.


Church in Kuwait
http://www.csikuwait.org/img/church.jpg

Kuwait
http://danielschereck.com/wp2002kuwait/imageskuwait/r20021010-churchcross.jpg

Church in Dubai,UAE
http://sor.cua.edu/ChMon/UAEMal/DubaiSIgnatiusInt.jpg


Church in Isafan,IRAN
http://www.anytravels.com/photo/iran01.jpg

Church in Ghazvin,IRAN
http://www.farsinet.com/iranchurches/images/page68b.jpg

Church in Muscat,Oman
http://news.adventist.org/data/2005/10/1131480091/muscat%20church%20celebratory%20cake.jpg


So Please dont spread that CNN/western media propaganda. Here you can see with you own eyes.

I didnt say those places dont have churches. I said those places do not permit the preaching of Christianity. There is a difference in the two things.

I never see CNN

[Fenerliyim]

B-Unit do actually write ur own posts??

[())__Green__))>]

Bosnian Unit, you are pretty much saying America is the next Nazi govt well, you are not only full of shit, but should be banned for propaganda. I am asking for you to be IP banned.
well whats the difference between what nazi germany did back then??
and what america is doing now?? attacking iraq for no reason and killing innocent children?

[Bosnian Unit]

I didnt say those places dont have churches. I said those places do not permit the preaching of Christianity. There is a difference in the two things.

I never see CNN

BS, if they have churches ofcourse people are preaching Christianity. Churces are NOT there for NO REASON.




Fenerliyim,

I do some of them. This post is from www.rense.com

[())__Green__))>]

well since all the shit has been caused by muslim terrorists, who the hell else should the authorities be concentrating on?? japanese, chinese, eskimos???
not every muslim is a freaking terrorist man
they don't need to make every muslim the same and make them all go through that stuff
its just propaganda.. ItalianBoy says we have propaganda.. but how about America's Point of View??
you think Iraqi's are actually terrorists??
how about America then?? what are they?
they attacked Iraq only for oil...
its just that Great Britain and many other countries are licking America's ass
so they can do w.e. they want and make their people believe that all muslims are the same

[Bosnian Unit]

Bosnian Unit, you are pretty much saying America is the next Nazi govt well, you are not only full of shit, but should be banned for propaganda. I am asking for you to be IP banned.

:lol:

Why ?

Becouse you don't agree with me?

That's :boo: .

What about ''freedom of speech'' ?

Im not surprised when i hear/read a teacher in USA expeled from school becouse he said 9/11 was inside job. :boo: :boo:

You have that ''freedom of speech'' but when you get close saying something, or if you say something that your government doesnt like you are GONE:boo: .

[ItalianBoy]

One thing is freedom of speech, one thign is spamming. You only spam.

[Ero]

One thing is freedom of speech, one thign is spamming. You only spam.

yup he's definetely spamming and being very racist and just spreading propaganda and he has done the exact same thread before.... dont believe me?

http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showthread.php?t=40129

:bowl: and he also has 4 threads about how Bush and the American Government were responsible for 9/11 and not the terrorists! that is pure spam! :bowl:

[())__Green__))>]

^ustasa
kk i got a question for you??
do you believe every word America says and every word that CNN says??
they are the biggest bullshitters just like Israel.. all they want is power
let me tell u something
even my class showed video's on this during projects
and if you were real smart you would look deeper into it
listen to this.. you might think that i am lying and that i am not making sense
but it is the honest truth.. its a fact

CIA has been doing drug business and all that crap down in bolivia and all those countries
American Government - CIA killed John F. Kennedy

so do you believe your "precious" america now??
trust me.. its the truth,
everyone proved it.. watch some documentaries or whatever

[ItalianBoy]

Do you belive all the things the muslims tell you? You are in the same fault mate. So, before you accuse us, watch your own faults.

[Ivan7637]

so do you believe your "precious" america now??
trust me.. its the truth,
everyone proved it.. watch some documentaries or whatever

I believe that i can walk down the street and express my opinion without the fear of having someone try and kill me for it. I have the right to believe in whatever religion i want, if any.

When i see Americans and Europeans Burning Islamic flags, then we'll chatt but all i'm seing is american, israeli, and euorpean flags being burned. What is our reaction? nothing big really. What would islamic reaction be if we burned a Iranian flag for example? All hell would break lose and i would hear "Death to the West", "Death to America", "Death to Israel"...blaaa blaaa.

As i've said before, americans don't need to kill muslims, they usually end up doing that themselves. I also live around a lot of muslims(arabic, bosnian) and no one here discriminates against them or even cares that there muslim. One islamic student openly admitted to disliking america and you know what happened? No one cared much. Let me go to Iraq and say "I dislike iraq" and see what happens. I'd probably end up on TV begging for my life.

Sweet Representitive Democracy;)

[normthebarman]

yeah you have some valid points...
but we have to stick to the point
Hitler.. Germany.. WW2..
hitler was a great man.. he improved the german economy and did various things to help the german people have a better life.. i did support that
but the only thing i didnt support was the whole war

Hitler was a great man? An interesting man maybe, and a great manipulator of people but great?

And the only thing you didn't support was the war?

What about his "final" solution?

[Fenerliyim]

final solution is included in the war part

[normthebarman]

[QUOTE=Ivan7637]

When i see Americans and Europeans Burning Islamic flags, then we'll chatt but all i'm seing is american, israeli, and euorpean flags being burned. What is our reaction? nothing big really. What would islamic reaction be if we burned a Iranian flag for example? All hell would break lose and i would hear "Death to the West", "Death to America", "Death to Israel"...blaaa blaaa.
QUOTE]

Um, several mosques in Edinburgh and in Scotland were firebombed after 7/7 and 9/11. And I'm pretty sure that none of the guys from these mosques were suicide bombers or terrorists.

[Ivan7637]

[QUOTE=Ivan7637]

When i see Americans and Europeans Burning Islamic flags, then we'll chatt but all i'm seing is american, israeli, and euorpean flags being burned. What is our reaction? nothing big really. What would islamic reaction be if we burned a Iranian flag for example? All hell would break lose and i would hear "Death to the West", "Death to America", "Death to Israel"...blaaa blaaa.
QUOTE]

Um, several mosques in Edinburgh and in Scotland were firebombed after 7/7 and 9/11. And I'm pretty sure that none of the guys from these mosques were suicide bombers or terrorists.

Links Please.

[normthebarman]

final solution is included in the war part

Fair enough.

Although, a lot of things Hitler did for the German economy relied on freezing and siezing the assets of any and all Jews. As much as some good things can be said for everyone's favourite Austrian, painting, genocidal megalomaniac, it's still hard to seperate him from the cause of 6 million deaths.

And if anyone comes up with the whole "it's all a lie" nonsense, then I pity you. Go to Belsen, Auschwitz and the German National Musuem in Berlin. There you'll find a whole list of reasons why it's impossible to call it a lie.

[normthebarman]

[QUOTE=normthebarman]

Links Please.

I'm not trailing through years worth of Edinburgh Evening News issues but go to this website and you'll see some examples.

www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld200203/ldselect/ldrelof/95/2061216.htm

[Sicilian]

yeah ok there, cut the b.s.
in america, if you say you are muslim.. you are right away looked as a terrorist
and even in airports they are more tighter on brown guys and will question him for hours than the average white male
there is no freedom of speech.. one thing u say can end u up in jail

You schmuck. So muslims wait longer on airport lines, so what, lets face it, Muslims are the ones committing suicide bombings. This guy i know gets stopped EVERY time he gets on a plane. He is tall, white, and as nerdy as they get. Goes both ways son.

As for someoen saying something and ending up in jail, i hear that a lot from you. Give an example please, you are talking out of your arse as usual so i doubt you can find one, but go ahead and look anyway.

[normthebarman]

You schmuck. So muslims wait longer on airport lines, so what, lets face it, Muslims are the ones committing suicide bombings. This guy i know gets stopped EVERY time he gets on a plane. He is tall, white, and as nerdy as they get. Goes both ways son.

As for someoen saying something and ending up in jail, i hear that a lot from you. Give an example please, you are talking out of your arse as usual so i doubt you can find one, but go ahead and look anyway.

Well, some guys came over from the States to Britain and gave some teenage kid a bollocking because he sent the White House an E-mail saying Bush was a w*nker and he wanted him dead. Said it's an extremely serious offence to threaten the President and they could extradite him to the States and imprison him etc, etc. They said they were being extremely lenient by just giving him a warning.

I mean, this was just some liberal, white, computer geek expressing his views. He wasn't exactly planning to take out Dubya with a sniper rifle at the next Republican rally was he?

[Ivan7637]

[QUOTE=Ivan7637]

I'm not trailing through years worth of Edinburgh Evening News issues but go to this website and you'll see some examples.

www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld200203/ldselect/ldrelof/95/2061216.htm

I'm not going to search through their either then. If you don't have the time, then neither do i.

Let's assume that what you are saying is true. The fact that you had to bring something up that happened 5 years ago shows that you have very little examples or evidence for that matter. However, you say it's true and perhaps it may be but it's certainly not as bad as being Beheaded on national television while begging for your life. Of course, that is just one example.

[Ivan7637]

I mean, this was just some liberal, white, computer geek expressing his views. He wasn't exactly planning to take out Dubya with a sniper rifle at the next Republican rally was he?

He threatened the president. Any threat to the president will be taken seriously because if it's not, that white computer geek could be the guy with the sniper rifle. They are not going to take that chance. What would happen in the middle east if someone threatened the president/Dictator?

They Arresst him, investigate him, and if there is not enough evidence, release him. It's a simple as that.

Representive Democracy isn't perfect. Over the years it become better and more precise. It's not a overnight thing. Your example is just that one. Justice can be mishandled in any country. The fact is that over 250 million people have a right to a trial and attorney if accused of a crime. You know what they get in the middle east? The right to get tortured and executed.

[normthebarman]

He threatened the president. Any threat to the president will be taken seriously because if it's not, that white computer geek could be the guy with the sniper rifle. They are not going to take that chance. What would happen in the middle east if someone threatened the president/Dictator?

They Arresst him, investigate him, and if there is not enough evidence, release him. It's a simple as that.

Representive Democracy isn't perfect. Over the years it become better and more precise. It's not a overnight thing. Your example is just that one. Justice can be mishandled in any country. The fact is that over 250 million people have a right to a trial and attorney if accused of a crime. You know what they get in the middle east? The right to get tortured and executed.

Just not if they happen to be in Guantanamo Bay or Camp X-ray or whatever it's getting called now.

Camp BreachoftheGenevaconventions would be a good one.

[())__Green__))>]

You schmuck. So muslims wait longer on airport lines, so what, lets face it, Muslims are the ones committing suicide bombings. This guy i know gets stopped EVERY time he gets on a plane. He is tall, white, and as nerdy as they get. Goes both ways son.

As for someoen saying something and ending up in jail, i hear that a lot from you. Give an example please, you are talking out of your arse as usual so i doubt you can find one, but go ahead and look anyway.
are you sure about that??
kk i cant get to you guys.. you clearly fall into the bs that america says
whatever, i cant explain it to you.. just go watch a documentary or w.e.
i clearly can't get to you guys.. cuz ur just ignorant

[Sicilian]

Well, some guys came over from the States to Britain and gave some teenage kid a bollocking because he sent the White House an E-mail saying Bush was a w*nker and he wanted him dead. Said it's an extremely serious offence to threaten the President and they could extradite him to the States and imprison him etc, etc. They said they were being extremely lenient by just giving him a warning.

I mean, this was just some liberal, white, computer geek expressing his views. He wasn't exactly planning to take out Dubya with a sniper rifle at the next Republican rally was he?

look man, there is a huge difference between what was posted above, saying that freedom of speech is not true and you get punished and imprsoned for your opinions, and threatening to kill the president of the united states. There are some holes in your story too.

1) You say he was a nerdy kid, nobody could do any harm. Well he sent an EMail threatening the president, how would anyone know what he looks like by his email adress?

2) then you say that because he is a nerd he cannot use a sniper rifle as if it is a general fact. Half the serial killers out there are runty mother***kers with a chip on their shoulder, and a threat must be regarded as a threat no matter who sends it.

3) Please give me a link to the story, cuz no offense it sounds like it was just a warning to the guy to scare him off THREATENING TO KILL SOMEONE. You seem to be overlooking that little fact. Mayve you forgot that it was guys born and raised in Britain who were plotting the next plane blow-ups?

[Sicilian]

are you sure about that??
kk i cant get to you guys.. you clearly fall into the bs that america says
whatever, i cant explain it to you.. just go watch a documentary or w.e.
i clearly can't get to you guys.. cuz ur just ignorant

Oh ok since i disagree with you that makes me automatically ignorant:boo:

Let me make this clear, i have no problem with 99% of the muslims out there. I respect them, their religion, their lifestyles. I have no racist attitude towards them, and i have no hatred towards them in general.

BUT, it cannot be denied that it is muslims suiciding themselves to kill innocent people and regardless of what miniscule percent of the population taht may be, and until white, red, green, and yellow people start blowing up planes and embassies, i see nothing wrong with stopping muslims on airport lines along with many others randomly selected people to be checked.

[())__Green__))>]

^dude
i can say the same about america bombing cities of innocent people
and u don't understand the point of it
its supposed to be america
like everyone is equal and has rights but not people being treated like they are all terrorists
thats how it is man, people wanna visit and gotta leave to another country and they get questioned for days and days and even weeks
its just unfair.. do you understand what i am saying??
or do you still believe in your perfect america too much to listen to me??

[Ivan7637]

Just not if they happen to be in Guantanamo Bay or Camp X-ray or whatever it's getting called now.

Camp BreachoftheGenevaconventions would be a good one.

Did you miss the part where i said "Democracy isn't perfect?". It's a hell of a lot better than living under any other government.

I do believe the U.S. should leave the middle east. This way, the muslims can invade one another and in a few years beg america to come and help them.

[Ivan7637]

^dude
i can say the same about america bombing cities of innocent people
and u don't understand the point of it
its supposed to be america
like everyone is equal and has rights but not people being treated like they are all terrorists
thats how it is man, people wanna visit and gotta leave to another country and they get questioned for days and days and even weeks
its just unfair.. do you understand what i am saying??
or do you still believe in your perfect america too much to listen to me??

You are so damn paranoid.

[Sicilian]

^dude
i can say the same about america bombing cities of innocent people

Well this is an entirley different topic, nothing related to what i was talking about above, and not something i can argue for or would even want to.....


and u don't understand the point of it
its supposed to be america
like everyone is equal and has rights but not people being treated like they are all terrorists
thats how it is man, people wanna visit and gotta leave to another country and they get questioned for days and days and even weeks
its just unfair.. do you understand what i am saying??
or do you still believe in your perfect america too much to listen to me??

I understand what you are saying, IF what you say is true. I have asked several times nwo but have yet to get any articles backing up these accusations of Muslims getting beaten in the streets and being detained for days and weeks without any cause. I have not seen a shred of evidence and would like some before i can take you seriously. As it stands now, you are just a guy bashing America without even referencing a specific incident, much less backing it up.

Do you understand that much?

[normthebarman]

Did you miss the part where i said "Democracy isn't perfect?". It's a hell of a lot better than living under any other government.

I do believe the U.S. should leave the middle east. This way, the muslims can invade one another and in a few years beg america to come and help them.

I never said anything about democracy being bad, I just said that all the people in Camp BreachoftheGenevaconventions aren't receiving the fair trial that 250 million other people are getting that you seem so proud of.

Why aren't these people getting a trial? Isn't that one of the fundemental cornerstones of the democratic justice system?

And with regards to the muslim countries coming to beg America for help, I seriously doubt they would come to America if they needed any. Why ask the worlds biggest war loving country to help stop another war. It's like asking your local pyromaniac to help put out a fire.

[normthebarman]

[QUOTE=normthebarman]

I'm not going to search through their either then. If you don't have the time, then neither do i.

Let's assume that what you are saying is true. The fact that you had to bring something up that happened 5 years ago shows that you have very little examples or evidence for that matter. However, you say it's true and perhaps it may be but it's certainly not as bad as being Beheaded on national television while begging for your life. Of course, that is just one example.

Yes and it's not as bad as being electrocuted on a chair or injected with a lethal toxin either. Whether capital punishment is televised or not, it's still capital punishment. The few clips I've seen of the American "justice" system does not endear me to it any more than the Iranian or Saudi one.

[Sicilian]

I never said anything about democracy being bad, I just said that all the people in Camp BreachoftheGenevaconventions aren't receiving the fair trial that 250 million other people are getting that you seem so proud of.

Why aren't these people getting a trial? Isn't that one of the fundemental cornerstones of the democratic justice system?

And with regards to the muslim countries coming to beg America for help, I seriously doubt they would come to America if they needed any. Why ask the worlds biggest war loving country to help stop another war. It's like asking your local pyromaniac to help put out a fire.

Nobody in the middle east would invite USA in their country in todays world. But it was nto too long ago taht Kuwait did......

USA is not war loving though it may not seem so. Do you have any idea how much opposition to the war there is from civilians? Once Bush is gone i sincerely doubt the troops will stay more then a week.

[normthebarman]

Kuwait did not invite USA to help. It invited the UN.

With regards to the civilian opposition to war, I agree 100%. With regards to the withdrawal of troops when Bush goes, I can only see this if a Democrat comes into the oval office. If it's another Republican, well, I have my doubts.

[Sicilian]

When a country invites UN militarily in it is inviting USA, cuz like it or not USA is the only country in hte world willing to commit any number of troops anywhere right now. If we don't send many people then nobody sends any noticable number.

I just pray that Hiliary Clinton doesn't get in that stupid ***king bitch

[normthebarman]

Dunno about that.

Europe sent thousands of troops into the former Yugoslavian republic during that conflict and the States took a hell of a long time to get involved.

Rather like another European conflict that happened a few years ago, as well......

[Sicilian]

That is true but i try to forget the Clinton years, that guy was a useless ***ker who would rather get his cock sucked then stop genocided :(

And inexplicably he is one of our most popular presidents in a long time.

The last US president i liked was George Bush Senior though so its been a while.

[Ivan7637]

I never said anything about democracy being bad, I just said that all the people in Camp BreachoftheGenevaconventions aren't receiving the fair trial that 250 million other people are getting that you seem so proud of..

250 Million people have access to a fair trial and free attorney. I think that's something to be proud of.

Why aren't these people getting a trial? Isn't that one of the fundemental cornerstones of the democratic justice system?

It's not that simple. When the constitution was written it said that "All men are created equal" but it was only 35 years ago that african americans couldn't even use the same bathroom. It doesn't work overnight. Chances are the people at "BreachoftheGenevaconventions" as you like to say did something wrong or they wouldn't be there. We all agree that they deserve a fair trial but the fact that they aren't getting one at the moment doesn't make america evil and it certainly is a lot better than being in a middle eastern prison.

And with regards to the muslim countries coming to beg America for help, I seriously doubt they would come to America if they needed any. Why ask the worlds biggest war loving country to help stop another war. It's like asking your local pyromaniac to help put out a fire.

Really? The same country that sacrificed so many soldiers to save S.Korea. The same country that sacrificed so many soldiers during World War 1 and 2 so that you and i aren't living under Nazi rule. The same country that sacrificed thousands and thousands of soldiers to try and save vietnam. The same country that saved kuwaits ass when Iraq was attacking them. The same country that helped destroy the taliban?

Of course a lot of these wars were for their own interest but no country enters a war for another nations interest. None.

Wether america leaves the middle east or not, the killings will continue because Muslims have killed more Muslims than america has. I am sick and tired of these ungreatful ***ks in the middle east. I wish for america to leave the middle east so that bigger middle eastern nations can invade the weak so when they come begging america/the west for help, that america decides to just ***king ignore them and let the killings continue....on and on. I wish for this to happen.

[Ivan7637]

[QUOTE=Ivan7637]

Yes and it's not as bad as being electrocuted on a chair or injected with a lethal toxin either. Whether capital punishment is televised or not, it's still capital punishment. The few clips I've seen of the American "justice" system does not endear me to it any more than the Iranian or Saudi one.

If your on death row, chances are you deserve to be there. Period.

[Ivan7637]

Kuwait did not invite USA to help. It invited the UN..

Pathetic excuse.

U.S. sent the most troops. No other nation came even close.

When your inviting the U.N or NATO, everyone knows that the U.S. will send the majority of the troops.

[normthebarman]

Pathetic excuse.

U.S. sent the most troops. No other nation came even close.

When your inviting the U.N or NATO, everyone knows that the U.S. will send the majority of the troops.

May I point you to my previous point regarding the conflict in the former republic of Yugoslavia. Several thousand troops from Europe were sent in to help while the States held back.

Also quoted from Ivan7637It's not that simple. When the constitution was written it said that "All men are created equal" but it was only 35 years ago that african americans couldn't even use the same bathroom. It doesn't work overnight. Chances are the people at "BreachoftheGenevaconventions" as you like to say did something wrong or they wouldn't be there. We all agree that they deserve a fair trial but the fact that they aren't getting one at the moment doesn't make america evil and it certainly is a lot better than being in a middle eastern prison.End quote


I'm sure some of the people in the States' Cuban Holiday Camp would beg to differ.


Also quoted from Ivan7637Really? The same country that sacrificed so many soldiers to save S.Korea. The same country that sacrificed so many soldiers during World War 1 and 2 so that you and i aren't living under Nazi rule. The same country that sacrificed thousands and thousands of soldiers to try and save vietnam. The same country that saved kuwaits ass when Iraq was attacking them. The same country that helped destroy the taliban?End Quote


I seem to recall that Great Britain, France and Russia also sacrificed so many troops AND civillians (more, in fact) during WWII so that we aren't living under Nazi rule. With regards to Vietnam, what were you saving them from? The "dirty red, commies" or gallons of US napalm? It think it's been established that the US caused just as much harm in 'Nam as it did good. And I'm pretty sure there were other countries in Kuwait helping liberate them from the Iraqi invasion. In fact I know there was. Because your god damn pilots bombed them. Do you realise that more British troops died in the 1st Gulf War due to "friendly fire" from American Jets than did to Iraqi soldiers?

And I'm pretty sure it's British and Canadian troops in Afghanistan just now who are losing their lives in the "war against terror". Incidentally, where was America when British troops were being bombed and shot at by Irish Republican Terrorists? Oh yeah, in the streets, collecting money to fund the b*stards.

America won WWI, America won WWII, America won Kuwaits freedom. Let's just completely ignore any other sacrifice that any other countries made during these conflicts.

[Fenerliyim]

Also quoted from Ivan7637Really? The same country that sacrificed so many soldiers to save S.Korea. The same country that sacrificed so many soldiers during World War 1 and 2 so that you and i aren't living under Nazi rule. The same country that sacrificed thousands and thousands of soldiers to try and save vietnam. The same country that saved kuwaits ass when Iraq was attacking them. The same country that helped destroy the taliban?End Quote


First off US always joined the world wars at close to the end. When everyone was tired and couldnt fight, the US came in a beat them. Y was vietnam fighting ur ass if the us was saving them. US did not save S.Korea, if u actually read or asked any s.koreans it was the Turks who saved S.Korea and i can give many links and facts on that. Who put Sadaam in control of iraq? Who helped the Taliban by giving them weapons in the first place? I mean u started so you better finish it.

[Ero]

First off US always joined the world wars at close to the end. When everyone was tired and couldnt fight, the US came in a beat them. Y was vietnam fighting ur ass if the us was saving them.

how is 1941 close to the end of world war 2? and Vietnam was not fighting the americans only the NVA and Vietcong in the north were, the southern vietnamese people had lots of support for America and their army and thousands joined the americans in fighting the north vietnamese!

That is true but i try to forget the Clinton years, that guy was a useless ***ker who would rather get his cock sucked then stop genocided
:faint2: it was Bush senior that allowed Serbia to attack slovenia, croatia and bosnia and he was the one who hesitated to get involved but when clinton won power he was the one sending aid and american troops.... so he would rather get his dick sucked and stop genocide than just get his dick sucked :D

[BlueArsedFly]

I seem to recall that Great Britain, France and Russia also sacrificed so many troops AND civillians (more, in fact) during WWII so that we aren't living under Nazi rule.

Russia sacrificied so many lives and civilians to save US from nazi rule??? Russia sacrificed lives to save their own asses only and if it wasnt for the americans in particular, ALL of post war europe would have been under russian tyranny instead of just half of europe. Everyone is western europe owes the freedom and democracy they enjoy today largely to the americans- certainly not the russians.

[bosniak fighter]

Boring Thread Hitler Is A Dead **** Now And Nazi Are Over Exept Some Facist Groups In Europe Like Ustasa For Example. Other Than That We Have Left Wing Liberals In Europe Like Me Who Are Called Bad People And The Facists In Europe Are Called Good People This Aint Fair

[Ero]

Boring Thread Hitler Is A Dead **** Now And Nazi Are Over Exept Some Facist Groups In Europe Like Ustasa For Example. Other Than That We Have Left Wing Liberals In Europe Like Me Who Are Called Bad People And The Facists In Europe Are Called Good People This Aint Fair

does every one of your posts have to say something bad about ustase? :mad2:

but what can i expect from you :rolleyes:

[Ivan7637]

May I point you to my previous point regarding the conflict in the former republic of Yugoslavia. Several thousand troops from Europe were sent in to help while the States held back.

and i am thankful for that. I never meant to discredit any other nation in europe. My whole point was to prove that the United States is not the evil that some muslims would like to believe. They don't want to destroy Islam and People with dark skin don't get beaten here. My other point was that it doesn't matter wether the U.S. is in Iraq or not, the killings will continue.

I'm sure some of the people in the States' Cuban Holiday Camp would beg to differ.

Come on man, no country is perfect. Every country has or is currently doing something they shouldn't be doing. It's not a perfect government but it's better than any middle eastern government.



I seem to recall that Great Britain, France and Russia also sacrificed so many troops AND civillians (more, in fact) during WWII so that we aren't living under Nazi rule. With regards to Vietnam, what were you saving them from? The "dirty red, commies" or gallons of US napalm? It think it's been established that the US caused just as much harm in 'Nam as it did good. And I'm pretty sure there were other countries in Kuwait helping liberate them from the Iraqi invasion. In fact I know there was. Because your god damn pilots bombed them. Do you realise that more British troops died in the 1st Gulf War due to "friendly fire" from American Jets than did to Iraqi soldiers?

Where did you ever hear me say that Britain, France, or Russia didn't sacrifice troops? I refuse to let a "Free" nation get insulted when it has done so much for the world. Not all of it was good, but a lot of it was and muslims wan't to consider them "The Next Nazis". Give me a ***king break. They played a big part in liberating europe aswell as other nations.

As far as vietnam is concerned, at least they tried to do something about it. You cannot ignore the lives lost in Vietnam.

These are the troop deployments during the Kuwait war.

United States United States: 550,000 troops
Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia: 52,000 troops (only 20-40,000 took part in the liberation of Kuwait)
Turkey Turkey: 50,000 troops (did not take part in any battle)
United Kingdom United Kingdom: 43,000 troops Operation Granby
Egypt Egypt: 35,000 troops
United Arab Emirates United Arab Emirates: 1,000 troops
Oman Oman: 950 troops
France France: 14,663 troops Opération Daguet
Syria Syria: 16,000 troops
Kuwait Kuwait: 7,000 troops
Bangladesh Bangladesh: 2,000 troops
Islamic Republic Of Pakistan Pakistan: 5,500 troops
Canada Canada: 2,700 troops Operation FRICTION
Niger Niger: 500 troops
Bahrain Bahrain: 200 troops
Morocco Morocco: 2,000 troops
Netherlands Netherlands: 200 troops
Honduras Honduras: 150 troops

As you can see, the U.S. deployed way more troops than any other nation. each nation deployed a good amount of troops to liberate kuwait. My main point was that when NATO or the U.N try to liberate a nation, the U.S. is the first to deploy troops and a lot of troops.


And I'm pretty sure it's British and Canadian troops in Afghanistan just now who are losing their lives in the "war against terror". Incidentally, where was America when British troops were being bombed and shot at by Irish Republican Terrorists? Oh yeah, in the streets, collecting money to fund the b*stards.

Yes indeed troops are being sacrificed but instead of middle eastern people being greatful, they spit on the West!

So is that why you hold a gurdge against america? The last thing america should be doing is helping someone as powerful as Britain.


America won WWI, America won WWII, America won Kuwaits freedom. Let's just completely ignore any other sacrifice that any other countries made during these conflicts.

No not at all. I'm just trying to prove to the muslims on the board that america is not the evil people potray them to be. Hell, the middle eastern nations hate the west and america so ***k them. Let little kuwait defend itself nex time. Let Iran invade a weaker nation...who gives a ***k. Why in the world do countries like Great Britain or America insist on helping nations that will only spit at them and hate them? ***k them. Let them stay where they are, living in fear everyday of their lives because someone might kidnapp them or kill them.

***k them!!!

[Sicilian]

and i am thankful for that. I never meant to discredit any other nation in europe. My whole point was to prove that the United States is not the evil that some muslims would like to believe. They don't want to destroy Islam and People with dark skin don't get beaten here. My other point was that it doesn't matter wether the U.S. is in Iraq or not, the killings will continue.



Come on man, no country is perfect. Every country has or is currently doing something they shouldn't be doing. It's not a perfect government but it's better than any middle eastern government.





Where did you ever hear me say that Britain, France, or Russia didn't sacrifice troops? I refuse to let a "Free" nation get insulted when it has done so much for the world. Not all of it was good, but a lot of it was and muslims wan't to consider them "The Next Nazis". Give me a ***king break. They played a big part in liberating europe aswell as other nations.

As far as vietnam is concerned, at least they tried to do something about it. You cannot ignore the lives lost in Vietnam.

These are the troop deployments during the Kuwait war.

United States United States: 550,000 troops
Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia: 52,000 troops (only 20-40,000 took part in the liberation of Kuwait)
Turkey Turkey: 50,000 troops (did not take part in any battle)
United Kingdom United Kingdom: 43,000 troops Operation Granby
Egypt Egypt: 35,000 troops
United Arab Emirates United Arab Emirates: 1,000 troops
Oman Oman: 950 troops
France France: 14,663 troops Opération Daguet
Syria Syria: 16,000 troops
Kuwait Kuwait: 7,000 troops
Bangladesh Bangladesh: 2,000 troops
Islamic Republic Of Pakistan Pakistan: 5,500 troops
Canada Canada: 2,700 troops Operation FRICTION
Niger Niger: 500 troops
Bahrain Bahrain: 200 troops
Morocco Morocco: 2,000 troops
Netherlands Netherlands: 200 troops
Honduras Honduras: 150 troops

As you can see, the U.S. deployed way more troops than any other nation. each nation deployed a good amount of troops to liberate kuwait. My main point was that when NATO or the U.N try to liberate a nation, the U.S. is the first to deploy troops and a lot of troops.




Yes indeed troops are being sacrificed but instead of middle eastern people being greatful, they spit on the West!

So is that why you hold a gurdge against america? The last thing america should be doing is helping someone as powerful as Britain.




No not at all. I'm just trying to prove to the muslims on the board that america is not the evil people potray them to be. Hell, the middle eastern nations hate the west and america so ***k them. Let little kuwait defend itself nex time. Let Iran invade a weaker nation...who gives a ***k. Why in the world do countries like Great Britain or America insist on helping nations that will only spit at them and hate them? ***k them. Let them stay where they are, living in fear everyday of their lives because someone might kidnapp them or kill them.

***k them!!!
:clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

[SiN]

Come on guys, im sure we have better things to do than sit here and talk like this to each other. I am so sick of this political bullshit and whats going on in this world that the next person i see who brings shit like this up again i will ban permantley.

We are here to discuss ***king soccer get a ***king grip on life man, we only live once i dont know why some sad ***king people bring this shit up, its ***king usless posting this ***king shit in a internet forum.

I mean who really gives two shits?? These suicide bombers/terrorists have nothing to do with the real muslims in this world, those sick bastards are brainwashed into thinking that what they are about to do will make everything better and send a message out to people or something.

And the same can go for the US government, we all know they are corrupt....im sick of this man....lets all talk soccer around here for ***ks sake...

SO STOP POSTING STUPID ***KING POSTS LIKE THIS....

[SiN]

haha damn i swore alot, you guys made me upset, we are all friends here dont give into hatred, lets all be peaceful...

Sorry about the language above lol but sometimes u guys piss me off :D

NOW SOMEONE CLOSE THIS THREAD AND THREADS JUST LIKE THIS PLEASE...

[BlueArsedFly]

.

We are here to discuss ***king soccer get a ***king grip on life man,

isnt this section called "away from soccer"??

[PoliSci]

The Fourth Reich is rising again. It has been rising since the defeat of the Third in the 1940's. It's been slowly rising and ready to rear it's ugly head again soon. The Fourth Reich is not the US. The US is receiving a lot of flak because of it's foreign policy, however if it were not for it's foreign policy more bloodshed would have ensued. You cannot make right with two wrongs, and that is where the US has failed. We should not condemn the one nation that has always fought for liberty in the World simply because those in charge at this time are manipulating the resources available for their own good. The US has always been the pinnacle of freedom and human rights. Our eyes should be set on Europe, where the real Fourth Reich is on the rise.

[only123123]

Dude, I have read all your sentences.
It was very fruitful.
Virtually, compared to war crime of Japaneses in WWII, Hitler is nothing that much evil. I am not saying Hitler did great. Hitler is also an evil bastard.
But compared to Holocaust from Japaneses in Pacific War, it is nothing.
Anyways, Hitler may have contributed a lot for Germany, but victimized his neighbors.
Japaneses victimized neighbor countries, but never apologized.

The world should blame Japaneses more than Germans.


The Rise of the Fourth Reich


May 25, 2003 - 09:18

by Anonymous

Everyone likes to say, "Hitler did this,” and "Hitler did that.” But the truth is: Hitler did very little. He was a world class tyrant, but the evil actually done by the Third Reich, from the death camps to WWII, was all done by German citizens who were afraid to question if what they were told by their government was the truth or not, and who, because they did not want to admit to themselves that they were afraid to question the government, refused to see the truth behind the Reichstag Fire, refused to see the invasion by Poland was a staged fake, and followed Hitler into national disaster.

The German people of the late 1930s imagined themselves to be brave. They saw themselves as the heroic Germans depicted by the Wagnerian Operas, the descendants of the fierce Germanic warriors who had hunted wild boar with nothing but spears and who had defeated three of Rome's mightiest legions in the Tuetenberg Forest.

But in truth, by the 1930s, the German people had become civilized and tamed, culturally obsessed with fine details in both science and society. Their self-image of bravery was both salve and slavery. Germans were required to behave as if they were brave, even when they were not. It's easy to look back and realize what a jerk Hitler was. But at the time, Hitler looked pretty good to the German people, with the help of the media. He was TIME Magazine's Man of the Year in 1938. The German people assumed they were safe from a tyrant. They lived in a Republic, after all, with strict laws regarding what the government could, and more importantly, could not do. Their leader was a devoutly religious man, and had even sung with the boy's choir of a monastery in his youth.

The reality was that the German people, as individuals, had lost their courage. The German government preferred it that way as a fearful people are easier to rule than a courageous one. But the German people didn't wish to lose their self-image of courage. So, when confronted with a situation demanding individual courage in the form of a government gone wrong, the German people simply pretended that the situation did not exist. And in that simple self-deception lay the ruin of an entire nation and the coming of the Second World War.

When the Reichstag burned down, most Germans simply refused to believe suggestions that the fire had been staged by Hitler himself. They were afraid to. But so trapped were the Germans by their belief in their own bravery that they willed themselves to be blind to the evidence before their eyes so that they could nod in agreement with Der Fuhrer while still imagining themselves to have courage, even as they avoided the one situation which most required real courage; to stand up to Hitler's lies and deceptions.

When Hitler requested temporary extraordinary powers, powers specifically banned under German law, but powers Hitler claimed he needed to have to deal with the "terrorists", the German people, having already sold their souls to their self-delusions, agreed. The temporary powers were conferred, and once conferred lasted until Germany itself was destroyed.

When Hitler staged a phony invasion from Poland, the vast majority of the German people, their own self-image dependant on continuing blindness to Hitler's deceptions, did not question why Poland would have done something so stupid, and found themselves in a war.

But Hitler knew he ruled a nation of cowards, and knew he had to spend the money to make the new war something cowards could fight and win. He decorated his troops with regalia to make them proud of themselves, further trapping them in their self-image. Hitler copied the parade regalia of ancient Rome to remind the Germans of the defeat of the legions at the Tuetenberg Forest. Talismans were added from orthodox religions and the occult to fill the soldiers with delusions of mystical strengths and an afterlife if they fell in battle. Finally, knowing that it takes courage to kill the enemy face to face, Hitler spent vast sums of money on his wonder weapons, airplanes, submarines, ultra-long range artillery, the world's first cruise missile and the world's first guided missile, weapons that could be used to kill at a distance so that those doing the killing need not have to face the reality of what they were doing.

The German people were lured into WWII not because they were brave, but because they were cowards who wanted to be seen as brave, and found that shooting long range weapons at people they could not see took less courage than standing up to Hitler. Sent into battle by that false image of courage, the Germans were dependent on their wonder-weapons. When the wonder-weapons stopped working, the Germans lost the war.

I remember as a child listening to the stories of WWII from my grandfather and my uncles who had served in Europe. I wondered how the German people could have been so stupid as to have ever elected Hitler dog catcher, let alone leader of the nation. Such is the clarity of historical hindsight. And with that clarity, I see the exact same mechanism that Hitler used at work here in this nation.

The American people imagine themselves to be brave. They see themselves as the heroic Americans depicted by Western movies, the descendants of the fierce patriot warriors who had tamed the frontier and defeated the might of the British Empire.

But in truth, by the dawn of the third millennium, the American people have become civilized and tamed, culturally obsessed with fine details in both science and society. Their self-image of bravery is both salve and slavery. Americans are required to behave as if they are brave, even when they are not. The American people assume they are safe. They live in a Republic, after all, with strict laws regarding what the government can, and more importantly, cannot do. Their leader is a devoutly religious man.

The reality is that the American people, as individuals, have lost their courage. The government prefers it that way, as a fearful people are easier to rule than a courageous one. But Americans don't wish to lose their self-image of courage. So, when confronted with a situation demanding courage in the form of a government gone wrong, the American people simply pretend that the situation does not exist.

When the World Trade Towers collapsed, most Americans simply refused to believe suggestions that the attacks had been staged by parties working for the U.S. Government itself. Americans were afraid to, even as news reports surfaced proving that the U.S. Government had announced plans for the invasion of Afghanistan early in the year, plans into which the attacks on the World Trade Towers which angered the American people into support of the already-planned war fit entirely too conveniently. But so trapped are Americans by their belief in their own bravery that they will themselves to be blind to the evidence before their eyes so that they can nod in agreement with the government while still imagining themselves to have courage, even as they avoid the one situation which most requires real courage; to stand up to the government's lies and deceptions. The vast majority of the American people, their own self-image dependant on continuing blindness to the government's deceptions, never question why Afghanistan would have done something so stupid as to attack the United States, and as a result, Americans find themselves in a war.

Now the U.S. Government has requested temporary extraordinary powers, powers specifically banned under Constitutional law, but powers the government is claiming they need to have to deal with the "terrorists". The American people, having already sold their souls to their self-delusions, are agreeing. The temporary powers recently conferred will be no more temporary in America than they were in Germany.

The U.S. Government knows they rule a nation of cowards. The government has had to spend the money to make the new war something cowards can fight. The government has decorated the troops with regalia to make them proud of themselves, further trapping them in their self-image. Talismans are added from orthodox religions and the occult to fill the soldiers with delusions of mystical strengths and an afterlife if they fall in battle. Finally, knowing that it takes courage to kill the enemy face to face, the United States government has spent vast sums of money on wonder weapons, airplanes, submarines, ultra-long range artillery, cruise missiles, and guided missiles, weapons that kill at a distance so that those doing the killing need not have to face the reality of what they are doing.

As I mentioned above, Hitler was TIME Magazine's Man of the Year in 1938. Stalin was TIME Magazine's Man of the Year for 1939 and 1942. Both of these men, and many others also celebrated by the media, were unimaginable monsters. The lesson from these facts is that it isn't easy to spot a genocidal tyrant when you live with one, especially one whom the press supports and promotes. Tyrants become obvious only when looking back - after what they have done becomes known. The German people did not stand up to Hitler because their media betrayed them, just as the American media is betraying the American people by willingly, voluntarily, even proudly, abandoning its traditional role as watchdog against government abuse.

It is the very nature of power that it attracts the sort of people who should not have it. The United States, as the world's last superpower, is a prize that attracts men and women willing to do absolutely anything to win that power, and hence are also willing to do absolutely anything with that power once they have it. If one thinks about it long enough, one will realize that all tyrants, past and most especially present, MUST use deception on their population to initiate a war. No citizen of a modern industrialized nation will send their children off to die in a war to grab another nation's resources and assets, yet resources and assets are what all wars are fought over. The nation that wishes to initiate a war of conquest must create the illusion of an attack or a threat to start a war, and must always give their population of cowards an excuse never to question that carefully crafted illusion.

It is naive, not to mention racist, to assume that tyrants appear only in other nations and that somehow America is immune simply because we're Americans. America has escaped the clutches of a dictatorship thus far only through the efforts of those citizens who, unlike the Germans of the 1930s, have the moral courage to stand up and point out where the government is lying to the people. And unless more Americans are willing to have that kind of individual courage, then future generations may well look back on the American people with the same harshness of judgment with which we look back on the 1930s Germans.

[kram]

yeah ok there, cut the b.s.
in america, if you say you are muslim.. you are right away looked as a terrorist
and even in airports they are more tighter on brown guys and will question him for hours than the average white male
there is no freedom of speech.. one thing u say can end u up in jail

I have not flown since 9/11 but I can assure you when I do fly again that I will be one of those stopped and searched more than the average "White" guy as you say. I am a very ethnic looking Italian American. My brother has experienced the same thing since flying after 9/11. He was once the last person allowed on the airplane and the whole plane of passengers were looking at him in fear as his name was called over the intercom and rose to get some of his personal belongings from the stewardess that were confiscated during his search. And when it happens to me I will be very understanding and accept it as a necessary part of security. There is a greater good that goes with this inconvenience as in life in general. Paying taxes is quite a burden but in MOST cases they are necessary to provide benefits to citizens of a given community. So, you see, there is no ideal situation.