Immigration

[ulster21]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the negative & positive aspects of Immigration, particularly discussing the impact current mass third world immigration is having on today's society.

[Cherry.DeRossi]

one impact would be cheaper blue collar labours for the developed countries...

[ulster21]

one impact would be cheaper blue collar labours for the developed countries...

Wouldn't that have a negative impact on the native "blue collar workers". It would mean less jobs for them and a stagnant wage because of immigration. Immigration always has a negative and positive effect, yet the positive effect usually goes to the higher class who owns and the negative impact is felt by the majority of the population who are the middle & lower classes.

[Bosanac]

I can't think of a negative impact. The fact that the citizens of third world countries are helped, or the fact that they're working the low paying jobs?
What is the negative impact?

[Bosanac]

Wouldn't that have a negative impact on the native "blue collar workers". It would mean less jobs for them and a stagnant wage because of immigration.


Do you have any idea how many places would go out of business if there were no immigrants?

[Cherry.DeRossi]

I can't think of a negative impact. The fact that the citizens of third world countries are helped, or the fact that they're working the low paying jobs?
What is the negative impact?

They might get even lower pay in their own countries...

[ulster21]

I can't think of a negative impact. The fact that the citizens of third world countries are helped, or the fact that they're working the low paying jobs?
What is the negative impact?

Increased crime rate(most of the immigrants are from extremely poor countries and are from the lower class of those poor countries), Loss of cultural identity( a country can not survive if it does not have some sense of shared values & identity) <............ You should know about this Bos, look at the fragmentation of the Balkan region, Do you really think the fragmentation of a society creates no problems?

[Bosanac]

They might get even lower pay in their own countries...


Of course, isn't that why they're coming to more developed countries in the first place? Although, they get spit on all the time. This thread is a perfect example.

[Cherry.DeRossi]

Wouldn't that have a negative impact on the native "blue collar workers". It would mean less jobs for them and a stagnant wage because of immigration. Immigration always has a negative and positive effect, yet the positive effect usually goes to the higher class who owns and the negative impact is felt by the majority of the population who are the middle & lower classes.

But the rich people would feel the advantages too since they don't have to pay so much for labours, don't they?? It really is give and take...

[ulster21]

Do you have any idea how many places would go out of business if there were no immigrants?

Good, then those businesses would have to pay the native workers a decent wage for once!!!

[Cherry.DeRossi]

Of course, isn't that why they're coming to more developed countries in the first place? Although, they get spit on all the time. This thread is a perfect example.

Well, that's true...

[ulster21]

But the rich people would feel the advantages too since they don't have to pay so much for labours, don't they?? It really is give and take...

That is what I said cherry, advantages go to the rich & the majority of the population(middle & lower class) feels the disadvantages.

[nachi88]

I will try and answer this for you based on pure economics ( my understanding of the subject might not be very good, but still here's the attempt).

Immigration, becomes an economic necessity. The fact is that, manufacturing in the third world, which is technically catching up very fast with the west, eg China, India is very cheap. Their minimum wages are way lower than ours. They dont have social welfare schemes like us, and due to excess of labour there, people are willing to work at any wage rate, no matter how low it is.
Think of a plant in your native Belfast making shoes. In Belfast you would encounter a cost of $ 20/shoe ( just for eg).But that cost would be way cheaper if the same shoe was manufactured in China. So the shoemaker from Belfast has 2 options:-
1) Shift the entire manufacturing to China, in which case many locals in Belfast lose their jobs. Or
2) Hire worers from China, who would be willing to work for a wage much lesser than the wage you have to give local workers. In this way , atleast the upper management stays in Belfast.

Now, you will say that middle class and lower class do not benefit from this arrangement. But that is not toally true either. Agreed that on the short run they suffer. But on the long run, becuase the cost/unit of a product is less due to a cheaper labour, the firm can make the same profits even if it lowers its selling price. So, the average customer gets the product cheaper. In this way the customer benefits hugely.
This is a purely economic look at the issue. Economically, its is a viable option on the long run.

There are other issues like Social and Religious, on which my views are similar to yours, though not totally. Immigrants willing to integrate must be prefered.

[Cherry.DeRossi]

Good, then those businesses would have to pay the native workers a decent wage for once!!!

Then prices would go up, more business will go bankrupt, the people will get angry when prices goes up too much... but if the labours to be more expensive, it would be inevitable....

[ulster21]

Of course, isn't that why they're coming to more developed countries in the first place? Although, they get spit on all the time. This thread is a perfect example.

Are you kidding me? Get spit on?, they get free healthcare & get advantages in the housing market over native born citizens in places like Denmark, Sweden & Britain. Why is that right?

[Bosanac]

Increased crime rate(most of the immigrants are from extremely poor countries and are from the lower class of those poor countries), Loss of cultural identity( a country can not survive if it does not have some sense of shared values & identity) <............ You should know about this Bos, look at the fragmentation of the Balkan region, Do you really think the fragmentation of a society creates no problems?

Increased crime rate? Trust me, the fact they're from poor countries does not mean they're going to be criminals. The criminal rate Americans have has nothing to do with immigrants in my opinion. How often do you see a Russian, or a Balkan on the news?


The loss of cultural identity is not a factor, in my opinion. The cultural identity in America, for example, is DIVERSITY.

But when we look at countries with less immigrants, they really can't affect a country's culture, there's not enough of them.

[Cherry.DeRossi]

That is what I said cherry, advantages go to the rich & the majority of the population(middle & lower class feels the disadvantages)

Oh...alright, sorry to misunderstood you...

[Bosanac]

Are you kidding me? Get spit on?, they get free healthcare & get advantages in the housing market over native born citizens in places like Denmark, Sweden & Britain. Why is that right?



Over native born citizens, are you kidding me?

An immigrant only has a right to get free healthcare for 3-4 years, that's it! They can't keep it longer.

[Bosanac]

Good, then those businesses would have to pay the native workers a decent wage for once!!!

If they paid more, you think they wouldn't get closed down?


The World would get even more corporate. The middle man couldn't possibly own a business!


In every aspect you can think of, immigration has a positive effect.

[ulster21]

Then prices would go up, more business will go bankrupt, the people will get angry when prices goes up too much... but if the labours to be more expensive, it would be inevitable....

Immigration: Prices go down, Native workers wages go down
Non-immigration: Prices go up, Native workers wages go up

Standard of living seems about the same..... The deal breaker is that with immigration, you have an increased crime rate & loss of cultural identity. Without immigration, crime rate is lower and you have a sense of national identity & pride. This is why I feel immigration is negative.

[nachi88]

I will try and answer this for you based on pure economics ( my understanding of the subject might not be very good, but still here's the attempt).

Immigration, becomes an economic necessity. The fact is that, manufacturing in the third world, which is technically catching up very fast with the west, eg China, India is very cheap. Their minimum wages are way lower than ours. They dont have social welfare schemes like us, and due to excess of labour there, people are willing to work at any wage rate, no matter how low it is.
Think of a plant in your native Belfast making shoes. In Belfast you would encounter a cost of $ 20/shoe ( just for eg).But that cost would be way cheaper if the same shoe was manufactured in China. So the shoemaker from Belfast has 2 options:-
1) Shift the entire manufacturing to China, in which case many locals in Belfast lose their jobs. Or
2) Hire worers from China, who would be willing to work for a wage much lesser than the wage you have to give local workers. In this way , atleast the upper management stays in Belfast.

Now, you will say that middle class and lower class do not benefit from this arrangement. But that is not toally true either. Agreed that on the short run they suffer. But on the long run, becuase the cost/unit of a product is less due to a cheaper labour, the firm can make the same profits even if it lowers its selling price. So, the average customer gets the product cheaper. In this way the customer benefits hugely.
This is a purely economic look at the issue. Economically, its is a viable option on the long run.

There are other issues like Social and Religious, on which my views are similar to yours, though not totally. Immigrants willing to integrate must be prefered.

[Bosanac]

Immigration: Prices go down, Native workers wages go down
Non-immigration: Prices go up, Native workers wages go up



Immigration: They clean the garbage.
Non-Immigration: You clean the garbage.

[ulster21]

I will try and answer this for you based on pure economics ( my understanding of the subject might not be very good, but still here's the attempt).

Immigration, becomes an economic necessity. The fact is that, manufacturing in the third world, which is technically catching up very fast with the west, eg China, India is very cheap. Their minimum wages are way lower than ours. They dont have social welfare schemes like us, and due to excess of labour there, people are willing to work at any wage rate, no matter how low it is.
Think of a plant in your native Belfast making shoes. In Belfast you would encounter a cost of $ 20/shoe ( just for eg).But that cost would be way cheaper if the same shoe was manufactured in China. So the shoemaker from Belfast has 2 options:-
1) Shift the entire manufacturing to China, in which case many locals in Belfast lose their jobs. Or
2) Hire worers from China, who would be willing to work for a wage much lesser than the wage you have to give local workers. In this way , atleast the upper management stays in Belfast.

Now, you will say that middle class and lower class do not benefit from this arrangement. But that is not toally true either. Agreed that on the short run they suffer. But on the long run, becuase the cost/unit of a product is less due to a cheaper labour, the firm can make the same profits even if it lowers its selling price. So, the average customer gets the product cheaper. In this way the customer benefits hugely.
This is a purely economic look at the issue. Economically, its is a viable option on the long run.

There are other issues like Social and Religious, on which my views are similar to yours, though not totally. Immigrants willing to integrate must be prefered.

How is he supposed to buy the product if his wages are so low?

[Bosanac]

I will try and answer this for you based on pure economics ( my understanding of the subject might not be very good, but still here's the attempt).

Immigration, becomes an economic necessity. The fact is that, manufacturing in the third world, which is technically catching up very fast with the west, eg China, India is very cheap. Their minimum wages are way lower than ours. They dont have social welfare schemes like us, and due to excess of labour there, people are willing to work at any wage rate, no matter how low it is.
Think of a plant in your native Belfast making shoes. In Belfast you would encounter a cost of $ 20/shoe ( just for eg).But that cost would be way cheaper if the same shoe was manufactured in China. So the shoemaker from Belfast has 2 options:-
1) Shift the entire manufacturing to China, in which case many locals in Belfast lose their jobs. Or
2) Hire worers from China, who would be willing to work for a wage much lesser than the wage you have to give local workers. In this way , atleast the upper management stays in Belfast.

Now, you will say that middle class and lower class do not benefit from this arrangement. But that is not toally true either. Agreed that on the short run they suffer. But on the long run, becuase the cost/unit of a product is less due to a cheaper labour, the firm can make the same profits even if it lowers its selling price. So, the average customer gets the product cheaper. In this way the customer benefits hugely.
This is a purely economic look at the issue. Economically, its is a viable option on the long run.

There are other issues like Social and Religious, on which my views are similar to yours, though not totally. Immigrants willing to integrate must be prefered.


All around good post. :thumbsup:

[Cherry.DeRossi]

Immigration: They clean the garbage.
Non-Immigration: You clean the garbage.

Good analysis...

[ulster21]

my post #20 shows how Nachi's post is incorrect.

[nachi88]

How is he supposed to buy the product if his wages are so low?

Oh come on.

Immigrants make up about 3-7% of modern European societies. The other 90+% can buy the product. And even if wages are low, essential products like clothes, food etc have to be bought.

[ulster21]

Good analysis...

No analysis, instead of arguing against my post, Bos made a ridiculous post that proves nothing.

[Bosanac]

How is he supposed to buy the product if his wages are so low?


Go to College!


In every country, that is a necessity for success. If the wages were higher, so would the product be so you're stuck in a same dilemma. Immigration has nothing to do with the way life is.

[Bosanac]

No analysis, instead of arguing against my post, Bos made a ridiculous post that proves nothing.


Pure denial of facts.

[ulster21]

Oh come on.

Immigrants make up about 3-7% of modern European societies. The other 90+% can buy the product. And even if wages are low, essential products like clothes, food etc have to be bought.

Immigration does not have a great positive or negative effect on an Economy, so why have Immigration? The higher-ups like immigration because it benefits the rich & certain governments like it because it fragments a society & when a population is fragmented it is easier to control(divide & conquer)

[ulster21]

Increased crime rate? Trust me, the fact they're from poor countries does not mean they're going to be criminals. The criminal rate Americans have has nothing to do with immigrants in my opinion. How often do you see a Russian, or a Balkan on the news?


The loss of cultural identity is not a factor, in my opinion. The cultural identity in America, for example, is DIVERSITY.

But when we look at countries with less immigrants, they really can't affect a country's culture, there's not enough of them.

Diversity means NO CULTURAL IDENTITY. It is human nature to need to feel a sense of belonging & feel as though they are part of a group, and with diversity everyone belongs to nothing and is an individual is not a part of anything!! You can not go against human nature & expect good results!!

[nachi88]

Immigration does not have a great positive or negative effect on an Economy, so why have Immigration? The higher-ups like immigration because it benefits the rich & certain governments like it because it fragments a society & when a population is fragmented it is easier to control(divide & conquer)

Obviously immigration has a +ve impact on the long run economy of a nation. Otherwise it simply wouldnt happen.

Also, economic disparities in different sections of population is more a cause of fragmentation, than immigration per say. In USA in mid 1800's there was a civil war between people of same ethnicity/religion, but due to indutrialised north and feudal/farming south they had economic differences which in the long run caused the civil war. Today's USA is much more diverse, but there is no civil war.
My point is, fragmentation happens becuase of economics more than because of other factors.

On the buying power thing, i really cannot explain it very well in English. Its not a major problem if you dont have money now. You can always loan it. Its like a credit society. I am sure you have that in UK too. Credit societies have interest lesser than regular banks. That helps the poorer sections. I'll try and send you some links ( non english) which can explain this point better.

Your profile says business student, and you've been a smart poster (though i dont really agree with all ur views, u present them logically) so i am sure you know the credit society that I am talking about.

Congrats on N Irelands win over Spain.

[ARBANITAI]

I feel like these kind of threads are going to be closed down once again.:worried:

I highly doubt this will stand good for any longer time, before it ends up with another flamewar inhere just like the previous one (thread)!!

[BRISTOLUK]

Are you kidding me? they get advantages in the housing market over native born citizens in places like Denmark, Sweden & Britain. Why is that right?

That old myth again? I'll repeat what I said before...UK wise. Immigrants/Refugees are only eligible if 'legal'. Everyone has their place in a queue, points awarded for various things: health, family needs, time on list etc. Priority is given according to points. Coming from abroad gets NO additional points. Being on the list for a long period DOES, ergo those in the country longer (obviously those who are overwhelmingly UK citizens) DO get priority over recent applicants.

People may refuse something when it comes up (within limits) and stay on the list. They refuse the less attractive options. Immigrants & Refugees tend to jump at the chance of something, even if it's not especially desirable. There's always availability in the poor areas and dodgy estates and that's usually why local people reject them, hoping for better, even if waiting longer.
Immigrants/Refugees are less fussy and much more likely to take what's offered.

[Bosanac]

Diversity means NO CULTURAL IDENTITY. It is human nature to need to feel a sense of belonging & feel as though they are part of a group, and with diversity everyone belongs to nothing and is an individual is not a part of anything!! You can not go against human nature & expect good results!!

It is the 'only' country that has so many diverse people living in, therefore that is their identity.

[ulster21]

Obviously immigration has a +ve impact on the long run economy of a nation. Otherwise it simply wouldnt happen.

:frusty: Have you been reading any of my posts?? Immigration happens because it benefits the rich on the economic side and it benefits the government because it fragments the society and a fragmented society is easier to control!!

On the buying power thing, i really cannot explain it very well in English. Its not a major problem if you dont have money now. You can always loan it. Its like a credit society. I am sure you have that in UK too. Credit societies have interest lesser than regular banks. That helps the poorer sections. I'll try and send you some links ( non english) which can explain this point better.
Credit Society?? A credit society is capitalism at its worst. Don't be fooled Nachi, A credit society exploits people more than the usual loan & borrow society which is what is prevalant in the West today.

Congrats on N Irelands win over Spain.

Thanks, Congrats on your spanking of San Marino!!

[ulster21]

I feel like these kind of threads are going to be closed down once again.:worried:

I highly doubt this will stand good for any longer time, before it ends up with another flamewar inhere just like the previous one (thread)!!

The only people who insult in these threads are liberal sockpuppets.

[Bosanac]

The only people who insult in these threads are liberal sockpuppets.


How can broad minded ideas insult you?


If they do, that means you're racist. If you are racist, doesn't that mean that you are the one insulting?

[ARBANITAI]

The only people who insult in these threads are liberal sockpuppets.

ulster if you manage to keep your coments / opinions, non offensive or non provocative, this thread will be just as perfect, and you can discuss all that you want here, I m not saying ur the one who insults cause there are others as well, but it would be best also if you too make sure you first dont provoke anyone with that you say, because if you do, then the other guys will probably do the same to you, im not talkin about my self cause i dont really care nor i do post much in here, but i saw you and some other guys here having some real nasty conversations from both sides which ends up with cursings and insults n stuff like that.. whom will make the supermods to close it!

just follow the rules of the forum.. no insults from no side! thats all!

[ulster21]

How can broad minded ideas insult you?


If they do, that means you're racist. If you are racist, doesn't that mean that you are the one insulting?

huh?? people who insult other people just for the hell of it are broad-minded according to you :lol:

[ulster21]

just follow the rules of the forum.. no insults from no side! thats all!

Fine with me, I am not the one is starts the insults anyway.

[Bosanac]

huh?? people who insult other people just for the hell of it are broad-minded according to you :lol:


No, liberal people are broad minded.

[ulster21]

No, liberal people are broad minded.

Huh, that is not what you implied.No offense Bos..... but when did you learn the English language?, I think a lot gets "lost in translation" with you. Is English a second language?

[Bosanac]

Huh, that is not what you implied.No offense Bos..... but when did you learn the English language?, I think a lot gets "lost in translation" with you. Is English a second language?

No, third.



I didn't understand the reason why you said liberal people are the ones who are insulting, because I saw absolutely no insults by any liberalist here. Than I thought of it, maybe their ideas are insulting you, which would mean you are racist.

[ulster21]

No, third.



I didn't understand the reason why you said liberal people are the ones who are insulting, because I saw absolutely no insults by any liberalist here. Than I thought of it, maybe their ideas are insulting you, which would mean you are racist.

There was plenty of blatant insults by liberals in the previous thread called "Immigration into white countries" which is what Hecuran was talking about.

[bigfatsausage]

Immigrants should not get any welfare or goverment handouts. Bottom line is if they enter a country they should be completely self sufficient and not qualify for any hand outs or freebies until they have been paying into the system for at least 15 years. No native should ever have to do without any benefit or welfare while we are giving it to Immigrants.

Also, Illegal immigrants are criminals....bottom line they should be deported forever for breaking the laws of the land.

[Bosanac]

There was plenty of blatant insults by liberals in the previous thread called "Immigration into white countries" which is what Hecuran was talking about.


Knowing you, I'm sure you returned a few. :)


Anyway, if somebody insults you here, I think ignoring would be your best option. That way, we'll keep this thread clean of insults and it won't be closed like the other one.


I apologize to rest for going off topic

[normthebarman]

Immigration IS a good thing. I'm pretty sure all caucasian Americans, New Zealanders and Australians would agree. Otherwise they wouldn't be Australian, American or New Zealanders. They'd still be stuck in the same country they're ancestors lived in. Bearing in mind that the majority of these people left their original country all those years back because they had no jobs, money etc.

Pretty much the same reason people are now emigrating to the UK.

If it was good enough for us, why isn't it good enough for others to come here. It seems a bit NIMBY (not in my back yard) to me...

I work with several Polish people who work hard as f*ck, putting in more of a graft than most Scottish people I work with. If it means that I don't have to carry somebody else who is crap at their job, I'll have the rest of Poland over here right now. Plus, they spend their money, helping the economy, and generally help us understand their culture a bit more.

[BayernMunich420]

Immigration IS a good thing. I'm pretty sure all caucasian Americans, New Zealanders and Australians would agree. Otherwise they wouldn't be Australian, American or New Zealanders. They'd still be stuck in the same country they're ancestors lived in. Bearing in mind that the majority of these people left their original country all those years back because they had no jobs, money etc.

Pretty much the same reason people are now emigrating to the UK.

If it was good enough for us, why isn't it good enough for others to come here. It seems a bit NIMBY (not in my back yard) to me...

I work with several Polish people who work hard as f*ck, putting in more of a graft than most Scottish people I work with. If it means that I don't have to carry somebody else who is crap at their job, I'll have the rest of Poland over here right now. Plus, they spend their money, helping the economy, and generally help us understand their culture a bit more.


Are you kidding its a bad thing. What have those "Word used here was deleted because it WAS a racist term. PLEASE refrain from using it AGAIN!" ever done for us.. although i do like a good burrito every now and then.. :p

[normthebarman]

Es tut mir leidt.

Your views do your great nation a dis-service. Germany is a great country and the people are fantastic but you're the first person I've met (albeit virtualy) from there that disappoints me.

If unemployment levels are high, which I know they are, why don't YOU decide to emigrate somewhere else?

If you've got a job, why are you complaining? Multi-culturism, it's the way forward.

All that hate and distrust of other cultures, societies and religions,it just creates war, death and mourning over loved ones.

[nachi88]

Es tut mir leidt.

Your views do your great nation a dis-service. Germany is a great country and the people are fantastic but you're the first person I've met (albeit virtualy) from there that disappoints me.


Whaaaaat???

Haven't u heard of Lothar "Loddar" Matthäus? :lol:

[normthebarman]

Yup, I've heard of him. But I've never met him.

As I said, all the Germans I've met have been brand new. Couldn't say anything about the rest of them.

Although to be honest, Jorg Albertz, Olaf Thon, Klaus Augenthaler and Berti Vogts have thoroughly frosted my apricots in the past. And that has nothing to do with the fact that they've either scored against my team in big matches or b*llocksed up my national team in some way.

Honest.....;)

[poutismalakas]

Are you kidding its a bad thing. What have those "Word used here was deleted because it WAS a racist term. PLEASE refrain from using it AGAIN!" ever done for us.. although i do like a good burrito every now and then.. :p

Racist Words Will Not Be Tolerated!!!! DON'T USE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Humpio]

Immigration IS a good thing. I'm pretty sure all caucasian Americans, New Zealanders and Australians would agree. Otherwise they wouldn't be Australian, American or New Zealanders. They'd still be stuck in the same country they're ancestors lived in. Bearing in mind that the majority of these people left their original country all those years back because they had no jobs, money etc.

Pretty much the same reason people are now emigrating to the UK.

If it was good enough for us, why isn't it good enough for others to come here. It seems a bit NIMBY (not in my back yard) to me...

I work with several Polish people who work hard as f*ck, putting in more of a graft than most Scottish people I work with. If it means that I don't have to carry somebody else who is crap at their job, I'll have the rest of Poland over here right now. Plus, they spend their money, helping the economy, and generally help us understand their culture a bit more.


I wasn't aware that any scottish people go to work...I thought the English tax payer funded their habits of drinking Kestral lager from dusk til dawn and also funded the NHS for when they beat the snot out of their kids. Am I wrong to think this?

[Humpio]

Es tut mir leidt.

Your views do your great nation a dis-service. Germany is a great country and the people are fantastic but you're the first person I've met (albeit virtualy) from there that disappoints me.

If unemployment levels are high, which I know they are, why don't YOU decide to emigrate somewhere else?

If you've got a job, why are you complaining? Multi-culturism, it's the way forward.

All that hate and distrust of other cultures, societies and religions,it just creates war, death and mourning over loved ones.


Why should he immigrate? The natives should always come first...Leave the scraps to the others.

[ulster21]

Why should he immigrate? The natives should always come first...Leave the scraps to the others.

Exactly........ these libs think the problems of the immigrants should come first, which is completely backwards.

[Bosanac]

Exactly........ these libs think the problems of the immigrants should come first, which is completely backwards.


Who said that?

Come on, ulster, stop playing the victim. Problems neither with immigrants, nor with native born citizens should come first. It should be looked as equals, we're all people.

Why should problems with native citizens come first? I know what you're going to say, 'because it's their country'. Completely dumb and unhumane.

[ItalianBoy]

Who said that?

Come on, ulster, stop playing the victim. Problems neither with immigrants, nor with native born citizens should come first. It should be looked as equals, we're all people.

Why should problems with native citizens come first? I know what you're going to say, 'because it's their country'. Completely dumb and unhumane.

Not to be mean mate, but when you have a country... things change.

[Bosanac]

Not to be mean mate, but when you have a country... things change.


Hey, you're an immigrant just as well, and if I was you I'd keep my mouth shut.

[BayernMunich420]

i love STOP PLAYING WORD GAMES WITH RACIAL SLURS and cheese burritos

[ItalianBoy]

Not really. I am a part time immigrant (I have two passports so technically I am not an immigrant at all) and after I graduate, I will try to go work back in Italia. Also, I am not talking about immigration now. I am talking about what you said in the previous posts. When you live in a country where they almost give more rights to the immigrants than the people native of the place... that is not good. Ho many immigrants are there in Bosnia? Let me guess, none? In Italy you hear it everyday in the news man, its not just a one year thing... you hear trobles being done 80% of the times by immigrants. Also, before you and others go and judge me and ulster21, we are not saying to STOP! immigration, we just want the people to ACCEPT the rules of the place they migrate to. This does not happen, its a fact.

[Bosanac]

Not really. I am a part time immigrant (I have two passports so technically I am not an immigrant at all) and after I graduate, I will try to go work back in Italia. Also, I am not talking about immigration now. I am talking about what you said in the previous posts. When you live in a country where they almost give more rights to the immigrants than the people native of the place... that is not good. Ho many immigrants are there in Bosnia? Let me guess, none? In Italy you hear it everyday in the news man, its not just a one year thing... you hear trobles being done 80% of the times by immigrants. Also, before you and others go and judge me and ulster21, we are not saying to STOP! immigration, we just want the people to ACCEPT the rules of the place they migrate to. This does not happen, its a fact.

You are an immigrant, there's no such thing as a part immigrant or a full immigrant. I have 2 passports as well, and I admit that I am an immigrant.

You can't compare Bosnia with America, that's just stupid. I have lived all my life in foreign countries, so my mentality and my reasoning is not of those in Bosnia therefore you can not possibly talk about Bosnia with me because that does not prove anything.

What troubles are done by immigrants, health care, unemployment? How is that an immigrant is able to find work and a native person who lives there can't? Isn't it because an immigrant is hard working while native people are just stupid and picky, and have all these stupid complexes that they whine about all the time, like you right now. Why would anybody hire them? I for one, wouldn't. Putting the blame for your laziness, or sicknesses on immigrated people is pure racism.

Now listen to me, it's not a choice of an immigrant to not accept the rules of the country they've migrated to. They have to, it's the law. They in fact do, and those who don't.. They end up in jail, and if they don't it just means that the country isn't operating the way it should.

[ItalianBoy]

You are an immigrant, there's no such thing as a part immigrant or a full immigrant. I have 2 passports as well, and I admit that I am an immigrant.
Yes there is. I live part of the year in Vegas, where I was born and part of the year in Roma where all of my family was born and where I lived and grew up. So, your point is not valid.


You can't compare Bosnia with America, that's just stupid. I have lived all my life in foreign countries, so my mentality and my reasoning is not of those in Bosnia therefore you can not possibly talk about Bosnia with me because that does not prove anything.Who was comparing anything. If anything you are the one who always compares.

What troubles are done by immigrants, health care, unemployment? How is that an immigrant is able to find work and a native person who lives there can't? Isn't it because an immigrant is hard working while native people are just stupid and picky, and have all these stupid complexes that they whine about all the time, like you right now. Why would anybody hire them? I for one, wouldn't. Putting the blame for your laziness, or sicknesses on immigrated people is pure racism.You do realize you keep contradicting yourself right? What does the government not making jobs have anything to do with regulation on immigration? Your saying that the native are stupid and that the foreign work...just come to Italy and you'll understand the truth.

Now listen to me, it's not a choice of an immigrant to not accept the rules of the country they've migrated to. They have to, it's the law. They in fact do, and those who don't.. They end up in jail, and if they don't it just means that the country isn't operating the way it should.
Huh? Are you high? You must be.

[Bosanac]

Yes there is. I live part of the year in Vegas, where I was born and part of the year in Roma where all of my family was born and where I lived and grew up. So, your point is not valid.


That doesn't matter, you can live in a city called Rome in USA, you are still in USA. Therefore, you're an immigrant.


Who was comparing anything. If anything you are the one who always compares.


Than mentioning Bosnia when talking about the western civilization is just stupid, if not comparing.



You do realize you keep contradicting yourself right? What does the government not making jobs have anything to do with regulation on immigration? Your saying that the native are stupid and that the foreign work...just come to Italy and you'll understand the truth.


The government not making jobs have resulted in a high unemployment rate and it can not be blamed on immigration. You're right, and to think that they're stealing the jobs is just another lame excuse for the poor unemployment rate. Hard worker always gets the job, out in the street it doesn't matter what country you're from. If you're lazy and can't find a job, blame yourself not immigration. If there was no immigration, and you were lazy even if you found a job you would get fired anyway.



World is unfair, I suggest you get used to it. Whining here about the unfairness of the World is not going to do you any good.

[ItalianBoy]

Leaving the bs aside, is that what you got? That I don't want the immigrants to get the jobs? No man, you got it wrong. I want the best person to get the job but this is not the point of the discussion. The point is how these immigrants come and DO NOT try to work... not getting the job.

The rest of your post just shows you don't want to understand my point so I will simply let it go.

World is unfair, I suggest you get used to it. Whining here about the unfairness of the World is not going to do you any good.
Wow man, you really opened my eyes... NOT.

[Bosanac]

The point is how these immigrants come and DO NOT try to work... not getting the job.



There's a lie. Ain't no immigrants that I know of do that, maybe you?

[ItalianBoy]

There's a lie. Ain't no immigrants that I know of do that, maybe you?
That is because you have to defend your own people. No lies man, FACTS. The percentages show it, over 70% of crime in Italy and in many other European countries are immigrant done. Sorry, but its true. My maid in Italy was from Romania and she was simply one of the best workers I have ever known. Lili used to walk 3 kilometers to Roma and 3 at NIGHT to go to her house outside of Roma... she was SUPERB... total respect... but... this other guy from Romania, Niko,... beat up the wife on a regular basis and got expelled from Italy for violence. Her brother, Basile... drunk... her husbund, also named Basile...ex drunk. Trust me, those are my personal experinces... and in Italy we are all pretty left wing... which sucks ass because they over protect these people but the news always state something where Slavs or Africans are involved. Facts.

[Bosanac]

So what, every country has their own garbage. Just as I'm sure does Italy, or any other country for that matter. You can not paint a picture of a big group based on a few degenerates. If you keep thinking about flaws long enough, you'll come up with a few.


PS: Show me the link to the 'fact' that says 70% of most European Country crimes are done by the immigrants.

[ItalianBoy]

I am not judging the country for what the immigrnats do man. Nobody with 2 neurons in their brain would do that. I am simply talking about that % of people who do move. The stats are from Tg2.

[normthebarman]

I wasn't aware that any scottish people go to work...I thought the English tax payer funded their habits of drinking Kestral lager from dusk til dawn and also funded the NHS for when they beat the snot out of their kids. Am I wrong to think this?

Huh, show's what you know. That is the biggest piece of nonsense I've read on this site EVER!!!!

No self respecting Scot would ever touch Kestrel Lager.....;) :D

[Bosanac]

I am not judging the country for what the immigrnats do man. Nobody with 2 neurons in their brain would do that.

I said you're judging immigrants for what a few degenerates done. I still need those facts with a link from a reliable source.

[ItalianBoy]

No, I am not. I am judging certain immigrants for what many do. Just last month, the Polizia found a dealing of cocaine coming from Nigeria. Over 200 people involved.

[Bosanac]

Yes, but see, your judging of those certain few immigrants reflect on your view of all the immigrants. That's how you're talking.

[ItalianBoy]

Yes, but see, your judging of those certain few immigrants reflect on your view of all the immigrants. That's how you're talking.
Of course not man. I don't meet a Romanian and think he is a bad person right away. That is silly. I am just saying that, since EVERYDAY you hear somethign criminally going on with immigrants, that chances are... it will happen again.

[Bosanac]

Of course not man. I don't meet a Romanian and think he is a bad person right away. That is silly. I am just saying that, since EVERYDAY you hear somethign criminally going on with immigrants, that chances are... it will happen again.


Just because of few criminalist that turned out to be immigrants, you can not directly go into the conclusion that immigration is bad. You have to consider everything, positives and negatives, and draw your conclusion on that. You have to think of everything before you start talking.


You still haven't shown me the link to the fact you have mentioned above.

[ItalianBoy]

I do that, you don't and that is why you assume things that nobody said. I understand that you feel touched by the argument, but stop acting like you know it all when you do not and sorry but you assume a lot of crap. And get it in your head, I am not AGAINST immigration, I am FOR regulated immigration. A concept too hard for you I guess.

[Bosanac]

I do that, you don't and that is why you assume things that nobody said. I understand that you feel touched by the argument, but stop acting like you know it all when you do not and sorry but you assume a lot of crap. And get it in your head, I am not AGAINST immigration, I am FOR regulated immigration. A concept too hard for you I guess.


If you do that, than your point will be false just as it is now. Still waiting for the link, if you don't show me the link than I'll assume you're full of crap.

[ItalianBoy]

If you do that, than your point will be false just as it is now. Still waiting for the link, if you don't show me the link than I'll assume you're full of crap.

Do what? Ran out of silly things to say? Thought so. I have no link because Tg2 is a news program in Italy. You just can not accept the truth. That is your problem.

[ulster21]

Who said that?

Come on, ulster, stop playing the victim. Problems neither with immigrants, nor with native born citizens should come first. It should be looked as equals, we're all people.

Why should problems with native citizens come first? I know what you're going to say, 'because it's their country'. Completely dumb and unhumane.

Because they pay taxes and their ancestors have fought wars & shed their blood for Britain!!

[ulster21]

There's a lie. Ain't no immigrants that I know of do that, maybe you?

Really in "your country" the biggest criminal gang is MS-13... a gang made up of El Salvadorian immigrants!!

[Bosanac]

Do what? Ran out of silly things to say? Thought so. I have no link because Tg2 is a news program in Italy. You just can not accept the truth. That is your problem.

Make a conclusion based on a few examples, ignoring the rest. Trust me, I have a big bag of silly in my pocket with your name on it.


Because they pay taxes and their ancestors have fought wars & shed their blood for Britain!!

Your ancestors who shed blood didn't do it so you can spill your racist ideas. I'm pretty sure immigrants pay taxes too, eventhough their bread and butter is being taken because their wages are so low. They still pay taxes.

[ulster21]

Make a conclusion based on a few examples, ignoring the rest. Trust me, I have a big bag of silly in my pocket with your name on it.




Your ancestors who shed blood didn't do it so you can spill your racist ideas. I'm pretty sure immigrants pay taxes too, eventhough their bread and butter is being taken because their wages are so low. They still pay taxes.

- I'm pretty sure my ancestors did not fight in wars so that their country could be turned into an Islamic Republic!!
- Really explain to me how illegal immigrants whom the government does not know are in the country pay income tax!!

[Bosanac]

- I'm pretty sure my ancestors did not fight in wars so that their country could be turned into an Islamic Republic!!


LOL, if you feel that way you're extremely paranoid!

- Really explain to me how illegal immigrants whom the government does not know are in the country pay income tax!!

I'm sorry to say but if your government doesn't know who lives in your country, than you've got a crappy government.

[MarieL]

ulster, are you against both illegal and legal immigration? Because it seems that way, yet everytime someone says something positive about immigrants or points out a flaw in your reasoning you turn the attention to illegal immigrants, like that's what you've been talking about all along. As far as I know you're talking about ALL immigrants and the legal ones pay taxes.

Anyway, it's been in the news here how the authorities have decided to deport some asylum seekers who have been involved in criminal activity. Repeatedly. There are polls and stuff in papers about whether that's right or not and that I do not get. I think it's completely right! If we are basically saving your life by taking you in and you repay it by continuosly breaking the law, then ***k you! They've already decided to deport 9 somalis.

[m2lions]

Immigration with assimilation and quotas is fine. When immigrants dont assimilate, when too many are allowed to flood into the country, that is when problems occur.

LOL, if you feel that way you're extremely paranoid!

I'm sorry to say but if your government doesn't know who lives in your country, than you've got a crappy government.

Have you seen London recently? Most boroughs have high immigrant populations and high crime. It looks nothing like the England of what most people think of. Along with the high muslim immigrant populations, it looks like you are in the Middle East, not England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonistan_%28term%29

Wouldnt that be a cultural identity being lost?

[Bosnian Unit]

West NEED's immigrants !

Government will not ASK people what they think, they never do and they need immigrants.Otherwise they would not survive and economy would be :boo: . Most Western familys have 1 or 2 childrens, while Asians,Africans 3,4 or 5.....



Greying EU

The UN says these population trends pose crucial questions for governments about future immigration policies, what age they set for retirement and what benefits they provide for the elderly.

The problems appear more pressing in Europe than in the United States.

According to present trends, the US is expected to grow from just under 280 million people to nearly 350 million in the next 50 years.

By contrast, the 15 European Union countries will see their combined population fall from 375 million to 330 million.

The greying EU would need 674 million immigrants over the next 50 years to keep its ratio of workers to pensioners constant, or 79.4 million to maintain a steady workforce, according to the report.


Guess from were they will bring these immigrants :) ?

You better start live with it becouse it's gonna be worse or start doing something with your wifes/girlfriends ;) .

I can say that Bosnia & Herzegovina doesnt have this problem. We have some Chinese people but thats OK, they have their stores etc...Plus they bring cheap stuff from China and sell to us :D .

[Sema]

West NEED's immigrants !

Government will not ASK people what they think, they never do and they need immigrants.Otherwise they would not survive and economy would be :boo: . Most Western familys have 1 or 2 childrens, while Asians,Africans 3,4 or 5.....



Greying EU

The UN says these population trends pose crucial questions for governments about future immigration policies, what age they set for retirement and what benefits they provide for the elderly.

The problems appear more pressing in Europe than in the United States.

According to present trends, the US is expected to grow from just under 280 million people to nearly 350 million in the next 50 years.
By contrast, the 15 European Union countries will see their combined population fall from 375 million to 330 million.

The greying EU would need 674 million immigrants over the next 50 years to keep its ratio of workers to pensioners constant, or 79.4 million to maintain a steady workforce, according to the report.


Guess from were they will bring these immigrants :) ?

You better start live with it becouse it's gonna be worse or start doing something with your wifes/girlfriends ;) .

I can say that Bosnia & Herzegovina doesnt have this problem. We have some Chinese people but thats OK, they have their stores etc...Plus they bring cheap stuff from China and sell to us :D .

Im pretty sure the US already has 300million+ people...because the 300 millionth baby was born sometimes in June of this year.

[caruiz93]

you people have no idea what immigration is really like.im a LEGAL immigrant to the united states and but i know what goes on in real illegal peoples life.they pay taxes,in fact its almost impossible to not pay taxes because when you get your paycheck it already comes with a tax deduction.so it is a false statement to say that ilegal immigrants dont pey taxes.

also it is wrong to say that all immigrants to the usa are hispanic because there are europeans,asians and ilegal immigrants from all over the world.

middle class americasn people cant complain that they are afected by immigration because either way,rednecks are too lazy to go get paid for doing a good job.an immigrant that is used to busting his ass in hid own country will work on fixing a backyard abd finish a well done job in 2 hours and charge 10 dollars and hour and a redneck will work ona yard,finish a half ass job in 3 hours and charge 12 dollars and hour.which one would you hire?

yes it increases crime rate and that is obvious thing.more people =more crime.

i do belive that immigrants should respect their host country's identity and not break the law and etc.

the usa should deport everyone who has a dirty record and has only been bad to society but let the people that really come here to work saty in the usa.

[tronxz28]

If you do not have immigration that does not mean that you will have more jobs. Actually, maybe you will have even less jobs or at the management level you will have to move to some other country.

Lets use the USA for example. The companies there even with the high number of immigrants are exporting all the jobs to other countries. Mostly India, China, and Mexico. I can only talk about my area of work because I am not quite sure about the other areas.

The other day I called the support number of a company in the USA. The number was a USA number but a person called "John" answered me. His accent was totally hindue. Every time I need to call them a Hindue guy with a common american name answers. These people are actually over India.

Also a lot of the companies have their manufacturers factories outside the USA. They get really cheap labor, and reduce their productions cost dramatically. So, again, even without immigration you are losing the jobs. These relates in a way to what Nachi already explained.

In economic terms, immigration should not be blamed for the lose of jobs but the big companies.

If your culture, customs, etc are in danger due to immigration then that means that your culture is very fragil or almost non existing in the first place. Unless you are totally wiped out I do not see how a culture can be lost just like that.

And ulster how many languages do you speak? You mentioned that bos english is not good but even if his english was not perfect(which it is not becacuse I have not had any problem to understand it) at least he speaks several languages. That gives him the opportunity to expand his knowledge and culture and in that way, you are limited compared with him if you only speak english.

I agree that immigration has to be controlled or then in fact you have way too many social problems but also it is just part of the price that you are paying for the oppresion of the great countries and power economies over the poor countries.

[ItalianBoy]

bosanacc, now you are just trolling.

And for those who come here, acting all "I know and you don't"... please, drop the act. Taxes are paid when you have a SS number and in many cases (like my mechanic for example) they have fakes. I found out that my mechanic's name is not Alberto but Hilario. Me and my dad were like... WTF? He told us that he had to lie so that they would not send him back. He is a good chap though and I have nothing against him or any other immigrant who comes to work, fact of the matter is though, that MANY and I personally think the majority, do NOT come to work.

[Bosanac]

bosanacc, now you are just trolling.

And for those who come here, acting all "I know and you don't"... please, drop the act. Taxes are paid when you have a SS number and in many cases (like my mechanic for example) they have fakes. I found out that my mechanic's name is not Alberto but Hilario. Me and my dad were like... WTF? He told us that he had to lie so that they would not send him back. He is a good chap though and I have nothing against him or any other immigrant who comes to work, fact of the matter is though, that MANY and I personally think the majority, do NOT come to work.


You're tieing this all on your personal experiences, what do I care if the people around are all messed up? It does explain your actions though.

Taxes are paid automatically, not only when you have a real social security card, you can have a fake one and you'll still end up paying taxes. There's no way around it, it comes out of your check. If you've been working you'd know that, but I guess that's a little too much to expect from a guy like yourself. You think you know it all, and you have no idea how much you don't know.

A guy in your position shouldn't be talking, but only listening. My advice is open your ears, and shut your mouth, you might get a clue.

[ItalianBoy]

You're tieing this all on your personal experiences, what do I care if the people around are all messed up? It does explain your actions though.

This is what you have to say since I have been proving to everyone that I am right. You just get back at me because you know I am talking about your people and feel guilty and somehow have to cover stuff up. You know I am right. Face it fool, you just scared we might discover you are just another one of those guys that proves me right.

Taxes are paid automatically, not only when you have a real social security card, you can have a fake one and you'll still end up paying taxes. There's no way around it, it comes out of your check. If you've been working you'd know that, but I guess that's a little too much to expect from a guy like yourself. You think you know it all, and you have no idea how much you don't know. Maybe those are the rules where you are hiding not to get caught, but in USA you pay taxes when they see you have a SS and many pay taxes because of FALSE SS. I have worked, maybe not for minimum wage like you but I have so stop acting all bossy when you simply can not afford it.

A guy in your position shouldn't be talking, but only listening. My advice is open your ears, and shut your mouth, you might get a clue.

Getting tough I see. Actually what I see is a troll who has to talk trash simply because he can not back up anything of what he says. Why did you even bother replying to me if you did not feel GUILTY. You see, you prove me right by the post. I am loving it! Or maybe you are getting tough with me because you are tired of getting bossed around by people of my (higher) status and the only way you can let it all out is to net fight? Trolling is what you do best...dude.

[MarieL]

Cut it out guys. :annoyed:

[ItalianBoy]

I was done a long time ago until bosanacc had to burst into hate. I am out of this.

[Bosanac]

This is what you have to say since I have been proving to everyone that I am right. You just get back at me because you know I am talking about your people and feel guilty and somehow have to cover stuff up. You know I am right. Face it fool, you just scared we might discover you are just another one of those guys that proves me right.


You might think you're right, but trust me you're not. I'm not blaming you though, you're Italian and you believe in the World you're introduced to. Where have you 'proved' me you're right? You got those links I asked you? You haven't proved anything but the fact that you're an absolute dumbass that goes whining on forums about how unfair life is.


Maybe those are the rules where you are hiding not to get caught, but in USA you pay taxes when they see you have a SS and many pay taxes because of FALSE SS. I have worked, maybe not for minimum wage like you but I have so stop acting all bossy when you simply can not afford it.


The fact is that everybody pays taxes, because they have to. Doesn't matter what the reason, as long as US are getting their money, the rest is bullshit.

I should stop acting bossy when I can't afford it? What are you, trying to insult me? Haha, man, through the jobs I have had, I have not only earned money to cover my own bills. I have found respect for myself and for everything else, which is something you lack, respect. But when you mature enough to start respecting yourself, you will respect me.



Getting tough I see. Actually what I see is a troll who has to talk trash simply because he can not back up anything of what he says. Why did you even bother replying to me if you did not feel GUILTY. You see, you prove me right by the post. I am loving it! Or maybe you are getting tough with me because you are tired of getting bossed around by people or my (higher) status and the only way you can let it all out is to net fight? Trolling is what you do best...dude.


Haha, your little soccerates number isn't going to work on me. I am not a troll, and I never will be. The fact you're actually calling me one is telling me that you're getting desparate to get your point accross. If there is actually a point in your argument?

[ItalianBoy]

You might think you're right, but trust me you're not. I'm not blaming you though, you're Italian and you believe in the World you're introduced to. Where have you 'proved' me you're right? You got those links I asked you? You haven't proved anything but the fact that you're an absolute dumbass that goes whining on forums about how unfair life is.
I told you where I got my sources from and I told you that once I have links I will provide them to you. Also, its not like LINKS prove everything. You still go around making up bs lies but I don't ask for links. I know you are full of it.



The fact is that everybody pays taxes, because they have to. Doesn't matter what the reason, as long as US are getting their money, the rest is bullshit.
They have to? They do when they work... to work in USA...that country that sent you back "home" (it keeps changing you know) you need a SS. Get it now? Black market work does not count man. So technically you never worked?

I should stop acting bossy when I can't afford it? What are you, trying to insult me? Haha, man, through the jobs I have had, I have not only earned money to cover my own bills. I have found respect for myself and for everything else, which is something you lack, respect. But when you mature enough to start respecting yourself, you will respect me.

I don't insult man, you do. I teach, but you are that student who simply does not want to learn and ends up at McDonalds. Respect? First get some smarts going on and then I'll let you have the honor to have serious chats with me.





Haha, your little soccerates number isn't going to work on me. I am not a troll, and I never will be. The fact you're actually calling me one is telling me that you're getting desparate to get your point accross. If there is actually a point in your argument? Soccerates? I have been here before him man. He must have owned you too so maybe that is why you mention him. The only despearte one here is you trying to cover up for your peers.

[Bosanac]

I told you where I got my sources from and I told you that once I have links I will provide them to you. Also, its not like LINKS prove everything. You still go around making up bs lies but I don't ask for links. I know you are full of it.


Your sources are in Italian, LOL! For all I know the only reason you told me about that news company (or whatever it is) is because it is in Italian. I am talking about my personal experiences, because they can relate to the topic on hand. What do you have, some stories? Anybody with half a brain can make up a story. You haven't ever been involved in a situation that says something about the topic, so how can you prove something, if not by links or a hard copy?



They have to? They do when they work... to work in USA...that country that sent you back "home" (it keeps changing you know) you need a SS. Get it now? Black market work does not count man. So technically you never worked?


Black market work is maybe 5 percent of all the work done by immigrants, therefore it's irrelevant to the topic.


I don't insult man, you do. I teach, but you are that student who simply does not want to learn and ends up at McDonalds. Respect? First get some smarts going on and then I'll let you have the honor to have serious chats with me.


I wouldn't have insulted you if you weren't so stupid. I am not only covering for my people, I'm also covering for you. You're an immigrate against immigration, now how stupid is that? You tell me, smarty pants



Soccerates? I have been here before him man. He must have owned you too so maybe that is why you mention him. The only despearte one here is you trying to cover up for your peers.

It looks to me as if he's the one who turned you into the egomaniac you are today, so it doesn't matter who came first. I also know you ran after him to some other board. :lol: If I was desperate, I would've been the one who called you a troll, and I would've had a pretty good reason for it. You are the one who has a lot of experience dealing with trolls, so you might just be one. LOL

[ItalianBoy]

Your sources are in Italian, LOL! For all I know the only reason you told me about that news company (or whatever it is) is because it is in Italian. I am talking about my personal experiences, because they can relate to the topic on hand. What do you have, some stories? Anybody with half a brain can make up a story. You haven't ever been involved in a situation that says something about the topic, so how can you prove something, if not by links or a hard copy?
You told me this man...

You're tieing this all on your personal experiences

You do realize you contradict yourself right? And I mentioned the Tg2 because that is where I saw it. Unlike you, I don't make shit up. Some of us get into arguments with facts, some, like you,m get into arguments with hate.







Black market work is maybe 5 percent of all the work done by immigrants, therefore it's irrelevant to the topic.
You seem to be an expert in black market.


I wouldn't have insulted you if you weren't so stupid. I am not only covering for my people, I'm also covering for you. You're an immigrate against immigration, now how stupid is that? You tell me, smarty pants
You couldn't insult me if you tried. I am just too smart for you man. That is why you want to reply to me, so you feel on par. Its ok, I understand or ta least I try. And I am not an immigrant and it shows you have understood JACK shit about the topic. I have said more than once that I am not against immigration but ILLIGAL immigration. To you that is the same because that is how you get things done. For us... no.




It looks to me as if he's the one who turned you into the egomaniac you are today, so it doesn't matter who came first. I also know you ran after him to some other board. :lol: If I was desperate, I would've been the one who called you a troll, and I would've had a pretty good reason for it. You are the one who has a lot of experience dealing with trolls, so you might just be one. LOL Nice try but no, I don't get turned into anythign because unlike you I have a strong personality. I don't run, that is what you do when the rangers tell you stop! Man, like I said, stop trolling.

[Bosanac]

You do realize you contradict yourself right? And I mentioned the Tg2 because that is where I saw it. Unlike you, I don't make shit up. Some of us get into arguments with facts, some, like you,m get into arguments with hate.


I believe nothing untill I see it with my own eyes, not yours.

I must've been wrong when I said you have personal experiences. You have stories. Personal experiences and stories are 2 different things.



You couldn't insult me if you tried. I am just too smart for you man. That is why you want to reply to me, so you feel on par. Its ok, I understand or ta least I try. And I am not an immigrant and it shows you have understood JACK shit about the topic. I have said more than once that I am not against immigration but ILLIGAL immigration. To you that is the same because that is how you get things done. For us... no.


Everybody is against illegal immigration, what is the exact point you're trying to make? That countries should have a better security, that illegal immigrants should be deported? If I knew you were making a point that obvious (something that everybody knows without you saying it) I would've never replied to you.

But, did you already forget that you told me that 70 percent of all immigrants do the crime in western countries, saying something like that can only mean you're against immigration.

Do you even know what you're arguing about?


Nice try but no, I don't get turned into anythign because unlike you I have a strong personality. I don't run, that is what you do when the rangers tell you stop! Man, like I said, stop trolling.

Haha, well that's not what I heard. I heard you followed Soccerates like a bitch to some other board. But anyway, it's none of my business.

[nachi88]

@Ulster21

I am not being sarcastic, but why is credit capital bad?You have to explain that. You have lower interest rates than taking loan from a bank. It helps the poorer section of society.

It was Europe ( and Western worlds) answer to the Communist welfare state. In Schweden you have welfare state.

What do you think stopped people from joining bastard leftist gangs like Baader Meinhof?? The government introduced pro-middle class policies like credit capital. It, i think is one of the best features of capitalism.

[ItalianBoy]

I believe nothing untill I see it with my own eyes, not yours.

I must've been wrong when I said you have personal experiences. You have stories. Personal experiences and stories are 2 different things.




Everybody is against illegal immigration, what is the exact point you're trying to make? That countries should have a better security, that illegal immigrants should be deported? If I knew you were making a point that obvious (something that everybody knows without you saying it) I would've never replied to you.

But, did you already forget that you told me that 70 percent of all immigrants do the crime in western countries, saying something like that can only mean you're against immigration.

Do you even know what you're arguing about?



Haha, well that's not what I heard. I heard you followed Soccerates like a bitch to some other board. But anyway, it's none of my business.

The only BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP that is following here is you. Again, stop trolling.

[Bosanac]

The only BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP that is following here is you. Again, stop trolling.

I have said more than once that I am not against immigration but ILLIGAL immigration.

But, did you already forget that you told me that 70 percent of all immigrants do the crime in western countries, saying something like that can only mean you're against immigration.

Do you even know what you're arguing about?


Sorry, mate. I got you :lol:

[ItalianBoy]

Yep, and I told you I saw it on Tg2. You don't get it.

[Bosanac]

Yep, and I told you I saw it on Tg2. You don't get it.


That's what we've been arguing for the past 2 days. You really want to keep arguing?

[benfica64]

@Ulster21

I am not being sarcastic, but why is credit capital bad?You have to explain that. You have lower interest rates than taking loan from a bank. It helps the poorer section of society.

It was Europe ( and Western worlds) answer to the Communist welfare state. In Schweden you have welfare state.

What do you think stopped people from joining bastard leftist gangs like Baader Meinhof?? The government introduced pro-middle class policies like credit capital. It, i think is one of the best features of capitalism.

They have a fine and I may add fine Welfare system here in Canada. I been on it since I was able to collect. I dont believe in the work ethnic, only smoke da weed drink da booze lay da chicks party and sleep in till 3in the afternoon. What a system u cant beat it. My advice for all those that dont want to work come on over they dont pay much but if you dont mind sleeping in da park you can have all the extra rent money for Booze and cheap Hos.

[ItalianBoy]

You are arguing, I am schooling you.

[Bosanac]

You are arguing, I am schooling you.


Too late for that kind of talk, you've already been schooled.

[ItalianBoy]

Too late for that kind of talk, you've already been schooled.:lol:

[Bosanac]

:lol:

Quiet, kiddo.

[ItalianBoy]

Not funny 30% more for you.

Quiet, kiddo.
Has your "country" changed name yet or are you losing more family? :lol:

[nachi88]

They have a fine and I may add fine Welfare system here in Canada. I been on it since I was able to collect. I dont believe in the work ethnic, only smoke da weed drink da booze lay da chicks party and sleep in till 3in the afternoon. What a system u cant beat it. My advice for all those that dont want to work come on over they dont pay much but if you dont mind sleeping in da park you can have all the extra rent money for Booze and cheap Hos.
Interesting system. I'm migrating soon ;)

[Bosanac]

Has your "country" changed name yet or are you losing more family? :lol:

I'm losing my patience trying to be nice to a ***k-up like yourself.

[ItalianBoy]

:lol:

[Bosanac]

:lol:


Fxck you


PS: Stop trolling


Anyway, for future reference ItalianBoy, this is how you've got owned

I have said more than once that I am not against immigration but ILLIGAL immigration.

But, did you already forget that you told me that 70 percent of all immigrants do the crime in western countries, saying something like that can only mean you're against immigration.

Do you even know what you're arguing about?

[ItalianBoy]

Exactly, those illigal immigrants are the ones that commit crimes since they have no documents to show they can work. Get it fool? OWNED AGAIN!

[Bosanac]

Exactly, those illigal immigrants are the ones that commit crimes since they have no documents to show they can work. Get it fool? OWNED AGAIN!


Haha, you're a bitch.


over 70% of crime in Italy and in many other European countries are immigrant done.

That is what you said, I don't see the word 'illegal' there at all.


I understand why you're now saying that you're only against illegal immigration, that is your only way out. Couldn't stand up to me when I was arguing, now you're changing what you're against because you are not strong enough to stand up to me.

[ItalianBoy]

Haha, you're a bitch.




That is what you said, I don't see the word 'illegal' there at all.


I understand why you're now saying that you're only against illegal immigration, that is your only way out. Couldn't stand up to me when I was arguing, now you're changing what you're against because you are scared of me.

Why, you finally lost it. Is there a need? No. so shut it! :lol:

[Bosanac]

Why, you finally lost it. Is there a need? No. so shut it! :lol:


Be a MAN, and back up what you said. Don't playing no bitch tricks on me.

[ItalianBoy]

I am more then a man, I am your daddy! :lol:

What is your country name again? Does it even exist? :lol:

[Bosanac]

I am more then a man, I am your daddy! :lol:

What is your country name again? Does it even exist? :lol:


Obviously, you're just a kid.


Don't try and run your way out of argument. After you're done trolling, I will quote the text where I owned you.

[ItalianBoy]

You are just like a broken record. I keep mopping the floor with your ass but you just love it!

[Bosanac]

You are just like a broken record. I keep mopping the floor with your ass but you just love it!


I'm unbreakable, baby. Your trolling can't affect me

[Bosanac]

ItalianBoy must've asked for help from his trolling friends. :D

[ItalianBoy]

I have been telling YOu to stop trolling and now you twist shit around? So low but from you I expect this sort of scum behaviour.

[Bosanac]

I have been telling YOu to stop trolling and now you twist shit around? So low but from you I expect this sort of scum behaviour.


You are trolling buddy, not me.


You try to insult me because my country was in a war, you tell me, how low is that?

[ItalianBoy]

Difettoso, you sure owned him. That makes two of us! :lol:

[Bosanac]

Whatever helps you sleep at night, sweetheart

[ulster21]

You're tieing this all on your personal experiences, what do I care if the people around are all messed up? It does explain your actions though.

Taxes are paid automatically, not only when you have a real social security card, you can have a fake one and you'll still end up paying taxes. There's no way around it, it comes out of your check. If you've been working you'd know that, but I guess that's a little too much to expect from a guy like yourself. You think you know it all, and you have no idea how much you don't know.

A guy in your position shouldn't be talking, but only listening. My advice is open your ears, and shut your mouth, you might get a clue.

Are you that naive....... Most illegal immigrants get paid under the table meaning they get no paycheck only cash.... meaning they do not pay an income tax!!!!!!!!

[Bosanac]

Are you that naive....... Most illegal immigrants get paid under the table meaning they get no paycheck only cash.... meaning they do not pay an income tax!!!!!!!!

I already answered that


Black market work is maybe 5 percent of all the work done by immigrants, therefore it's irrelevant to the topic.

[valdanito_10]

Ulster, control your thread or I will close it again.
You guys must really grow up and learn how to have a discussion between mature people. Remember, moderators can be warned too.

[())__Green__))>]

go home you immigrants :lol:

[philipas]

Immigration is a necessity for western countries and we should all be grateful that they're coming.

Reasons:

The 'white tribes' of Europe and its colonial settlements (America, Australia etc) are dieing out. Westerners are having few children and in most countries the population growth is either static or decreasing. Immigrants provide 'new blood' that is vitally needed for countries to sustain their standard of living.

The populations of western countries are ageing. Immigrants are needed to look after these people when they're no longer able to look after themselves.

Immigrants bring new ideas and interesting aspects of their culture that others can learn from and enrich their own cultures.

These are just a few of the obvious reasons and there are obviously more reasons. Let's all be grateful to immigrants and appreciate their valuable contribution to our western societies, wherever they're from. :)

[ItalianBoy]

We need controlled immigration. And that also means we should start ***king more often, but you know, our society is ***ked up. Women have become such spoiled bitches its insane. Especially in USA I might add. Religion is poison and ruining everything.

[ulster21]

Ulster, control your thread or I will close it again.
You guys must really grow up and learn how to have a discussion between mature people. Remember, moderators can be warned too.

How am I supposed to control it?, I am not a mod. Tell Bos to control his anger.

[ulster21]

We need controlled immigration. And that also means we should start ***king more often, but you know, our society is ***ked up. Women have become such spoiled bitches its insane. Especially in USA I might add. Religion is poison and ruining everything.

The feminist movement has ruined western culture. Instead of a women wanting to have & take care of kids, her main goal in life is to have a successful career.......... so less kids are being born in the west. The western media portrays having kids as a hassle and an impediment on one's own life. If you have a kid you can not go on that vacation... stuff like that. We have the liberal media & feminists to thank for our declining population!!

[ulster21]

I already answered that

Please provide a link that says only 5% of immigrant work is black market.

[Bosanac]

Please provide a link that says only 5% of immigrant work is black market.


Why do you need a link for that, it's common sense

[Fenerliyim]

Wow, I have a girl who is in one of these feminists classes and they say that history should be changed to herstory, and that the spelling of women should be changed so that it doesnt have the word men in it. All these women need a good beating and then they will come back to their senses

[ItalianBoy]

I agree ulster21. bosanacc, you are simply pathetic. You asked me to give you a link or "you would not belive me" but now you say there is no need for a link because.... its common sense? Are you a retard? I THINK SO! Just shut up man. Ulster21, since there is a MUSLIM movement, lets create our own movement.

[ItalianBoy]

Wow, I have a girl who is in one of these feminists classes and they say that history should be changed to herstory, and that the spelling of women should be changed so that it doesnt have the word men in it. All these women need a good beating and then they will come back to their senses
.......

[Ivan7637]

Wow, I have a girl who is in one of these feminists classes and they say that history should be changed to herstory, and that the spelling of women should be changed so that it doesnt have the word men in it. All these women need a good beating and then they will come back to their senses

A lot of the girls i've met her are spoiled little sluts. I remember a friend of ours who was bosnians had two daughters who grew up in america for most of their life and were dressing slutty and being slutty. Basically, they had reputations as slut. He knew he couldn't hit them in america so he took them back to bosnia for "Vacation", then he beat the living shit out of both of them. Let's just say, that there is no more sluttying. :D

[ulster21]

Belgium "Youths" Riot

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - About a hundred youths of North African origin rioted in central Brussels on Tuesday on a second night of trouble following the death of an inmate in jail, a police official said.
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1428592006

Since when are North Africans... "Belgian youth"...... Yet another example of the negative effects of third world immigration. This immigrant violence is happening in almost every country in Europe, why are our governments turning a blind eye to it?

[BRISTOLUK]

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - About a hundred youths of North African origin rioted in central Brussels on Tuesday on a second night of trouble following the death of an inmate in jail, a police official said.

Yet another example of the negative effects of third world immigration. This immigrant violence is happening in almost every country in Europe, why are our governments turning a blind eye to it?

I'm not blind to this kind of problem but this thread is a continuation of one started 15 December. Over 9 months ago. Or at least 270 days. You have not been slow to point out these events.
This "yet another example" is how many incidents of this kind? 6? 7?...maybe even 10? Or as much as 20 if one includes the problems in Paris.
Why aren't the other 200 plus days without such a problem "yet more examples" of how different peoples are able to live peaceably?

Or is that another example of my woolly-minded liberal thinking?:lol:

[ulster21]

I'm not blind to this kind of problem but this thread is a continuation of one started 15 December. Over 9 months ago. Or at least 270 days. You have not been slow to point out these events.
This "yet another example" is how many incidents of this kind? 6? 7?...maybe even 10? Or as much as 20 if one includes the problems in Paris.
Why aren't the other 200 plus days without such a problem "yet more examples" of how different peoples are able to live peaceably?

Or is that another example of my woolly-minded liberal thinking?:lol:

Once again Bristol you manage to not condemn these actions rather trying to blame me for bringing this problem to light. Absolutely pathetic.

Who cares about the rioting & violence...... ummmmm it didn't happen for a couple of days :shocked: I know that according to you immigrants don't have any personal responsibility for their own actions, but you should not ignore violence!!

[BRISTOLUK]

Once again Bristol you manage to not condemn these actions rather trying to blame me for bringing this problem to light. Absolutely pathetic.

Who cares about the rioting & violence...... ummmmm it didn't happen for a couple of days :shocked: I know that according to you immigrants don't have any personal responsibility for their own actions, but you should not ignore violence!!

What part of my statement where I said "I'm not blind to this kind of problem" did you not understand? And where have I said people are not responsible for their own actions?

And where's your grasp of perspective? You say it didn't happen for a 'couple of days'....but wasn't it more like 250 out of 270 that it didn't happen?

Just because I did not say I condemn doesn't mean I don't. I was simply illustrating the minority of problems you focus on as if it's the norm.
I could turn your statement around and say "once again Ulster you fail to praise the fact that overwhelmingly there was less trouble than there was peace" in immigrant areas.
If I applied the same logic as you have in saying I don't condemn, that would suggest you actually favoured unrest wouldn't it?

Surely your lack of praise for mostly trouble free days doesn't mean you like unrest does it?
Does it?

[BRISTOLUK]

From http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showthread.php?t=47143
Which African team will play this best at this World Cup and will any get to the semis and/or possibly the final?
An African team already won the World Cup..... France in 98
I think thats kinda a racist thing to say. Just b/c they are black doesn't mean they are African.
Ulster21 has a 'thing' about France being represented by Africa.
I could point out that the cultural mix was a great success and did pretty well recently too - contrary to his posts.
But that would just be stirring things. :lol:
Wouldn't it?
Your right Bristol, 3 weeks of immigrant rioting in the Paris suburbs is a great cultural mix.....:lol:

I remember how the win in 1998 united France. Unfortunately the nation failed to build on this.

[only123123]

Only racists object immigration.
In this globalized world, it is meaningless and useless to talk about whether immigration is good or not.
Immigration is something usual and normal.
Many Italians immigrate to the US, Canada, and Australia.
Many French immigrate to the US, Canada, and Australia too.
Many Americans immigrate to Canada.
Many Asians and Africans immigrate to Australia and Europe.
What's wrong with that??

[ulster21]

Only racists object immigration.
In this globalized world, it is meaningless and useless to talk about whether immigration is good or not.
Immigration is something usual and normal.
Many Italians immigrate to the US, Canada, and Australia.
Many French immigrate to the US, Canada, and Australia too.
Many Americans immigrate to Canada.
Many Asians and Africans immigrate to Australia and Europe.
What's wrong with that??

- Only people who can not argue call other people racist for having an opposing view.
- "What's wrong with that"? Look at the negative effects third world immigration has(increased crime, loss of cultural identity, fragementation of a society) on a developed country before you make such a broad statement.

[Leon of Silvren]

You do sound harsh there.....you can't solely blame inmigration for those "negative effects", in some countries that's a reality, but not everywhere inmigration is bad, you should think that before making such statement.

[ulster21]

You do sound harsh there.....you can't solely blame inmigration for those "negative effects", in some countries that's a reality, but not everywhere inmigration is bad, you should think that before making such statement.

Give me an example of a country who had or is currently receiving mass third world immigration and has not experienced these problems.

[BRISTOLUK]

Give us an example of a country with no immigration, mass or otherwise, past or present, and is completely free of problems.

[ulster21]

Give us an example of a country with no immigration, mass or otherwise, past or present, and is completely free of problems.

Sweden was a very safe & stable country before immigration came from the Middle East & Africa. Now if you go to a city like Malmo you will find a city with a very high crime rate, poverty, and very little Swedish culture.

[BRISTOLUK]

Sweden was a very safe & stable country before immigration came from the Middle East & Africa.

Thanks to Google, I've just been reading about riots, civil unrest, protests and youth rebellion in Sweden...all prior to the immigration of which you speak. :)

[BlueArsedFly]

Thanks to Google, I've just been reading about riots, civil unrest, protests and youth rebellion in Sweden...all prior to the immigration of which you speak. :)

They were probably protesting agianst allowing immigration

[Cell]

Give me an example of a country who had or is currently receiving mass third world immigration and has not experienced these problems.

Canada. They will even welcome more immigrants.

[Cell]

Give us an example of a country with no immigration, mass or otherwise, past or present, and is completely free of problems.
Japan. They are really cool as a lonely country.

[ulster21]

Thanks to Google, I've just been reading about riots, civil unrest, protests and youth rebellion in Sweden...all prior to the immigration of which you speak. :)

A link please. You honestly think Sweden was a more dangerous country 40 years ago that it is today?

[Leon of Silvren]

Give us an example of a country with no immigration, mass or otherwise, past or present, and is completely free of problems.
Well a country free of problems.....I don't think such thing exists....but to express my point just imagine how would the world look like if some Englishmen wouldn't cross the Atlantic Ocean to establish themselves.....or if some Spaniards wouldn't make the same trip.....

[ulster21]

Canada. They will even welcome more immigrants.

The crime rate in Canada has risen dramatically, especially in the cities where most immigrants come.

From wikipedia "Toronto's violent crime rates are low compared to its neighbouring US cities. But crime and gang violence has been on the rise. Due to a spike in gun-related crimes/murders over the summer of 2005, largely attributed to the rise of gangs and the failure of Canadian officials to stem the rising tide, concern over gun- and gang-related crimes has received increased local media attention recently. There have been calls for increased policing, gun control, and stiffer sentences to help deal with the problem. Gang violence has been the main reason for the outburst of violence in Toronto, between 1997-2005 over three hundred gang related deaths have occurred." Who do you think most of the gang members are??

Good article about immigrant violence in Vancouver www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A4162-2004Jul21?language=printer

[BRISTOLUK]

A link please. You honestly think Sweden was a more dangerous country 40 years ago that it is today?

Nope. Once again you're putting your interpretation on what others have said rather than what they actually did say.
You said "Sweden was a very safe & stable country before immigration came from the Middle East & Africa."
I countered with "Thanks to Google, I've just been reading about riots, civil unrest, protests and youth rebellion in Sweden...all prior to the immigration of which you speak."
How on earth do you interpret that as me thinking Sweden was more dangerous 40 years ago?

My post merely meant that civil unrest, youth rebellion etc existed in Sweden BEFORE the immigration you complained about. It meant that because if you read the words and the order in which they were written, that's what it said, rather than what you choose to read and misrepresent.


Ignoring periods of war, I very much doubt ANY country was safer 40 years than now.
All countries have problems. All countries get new problems. Not all policies are exclusively good or bad. Some plans don't work because they are bad ideas and some fail because, while good, they were managed badly.

There are examples where immigration hasn't caused problems; it's been managed well.

There are examples of the disorder you attribute to immigration in 100% white areas. I have posted to you before about the many exclusively white areas in the UK where violent crime, drug abuse, spousal abuse etc is rife and at levels far worse than areas with high immigrant population.

There are examples where poverty is the cause of problems and immigrants may be more likely to be caught up in the poverty. And before you say it, no I am NOT excusing bad behaviour, just recognising that all kinds of people are capable of bad reactions.




I'd find it very hard to gve a single link...there isn't room on here and if I gave one or two it would appear as if I was being selective....like you when you post links;)

Just type 'Sweden' and then using 'search within' type 'Unrest' and you'll see masses of results - some of which are more relevant than others, but there are plenty.

[ulster21]

Bristol.... how can you compare unrest in the past in Sweden( peaceful protest marches) with rioting & gang violence that is currently going on with the African & Arab immigrants.

[BRISTOLUK]

Bristol.... how can you compare unrest in the past in Sweden( peaceful protest marches) with rioting & gang violence that is currently going on with the African & Arab immigrants.

Well, you see, I wasn't making a comparison. You're doing that. As I said, TWICE, I was stating that some of what we see now also happened before.


You said Sweden had been safe and stable and even now, in that dismissive way of yours when facts fail to fit your case, you understate past events as 'peaceful protest marches' when there were, in fact, riots and violent protests with people killed and injured just as happens today.

I suggested the word 'unrest' rather than 'riots' for a google search as using the latter triggered lots of results about the more recent troubles in Paris. Changing the search to unrest increased the Swedish results. Using a more mild word doesn't necessarily mean mild results. There were still riots. Just like in the Student riots of Paris in the 60s that had nothing to do with immigration either.

[ulster21]

Bristol, simple question, what do you attribute the rise in gang violence & crime in Canada to?

[poutismalakas]

Give us an example of a country with no immigration, mass or otherwise, past or present, and is completely free of problems.
Japan

[BRISTOLUK]

Bristol, simple question, what do you attribute the rise in gang violence & crime in Canada to?

Poverty...chase of easy money at minimal effort....Lower morals....Selfishness....envy....mistreatment...perceived mistreatment etc etc

Pretty much the same reasons for crime everywhere.

[BlueArsedFly]

Poverty...chase of easy money at minimal effort....Lower morals....Selfishness....envy....mistreatment...perceived mistreatment etc etc

Pretty much the same reasons for crime everywhere.

so you do blame immigrants after all

[ulster21]

Poverty...chase of easy money at minimal effort....Lower morals....Selfishness....envy....mistreatment...perceived mistreatment etc etc

Pretty much the same reasons for crime everywhere.

Poverty: third world immigration

Lower morals: the liberal government & media in Canada

Bristol.... simple question..... who would you say makes up the majority of the gang members & gang murderers in Canada? African & Asian immigrants or White Canadians?

[BRISTOLUK]

Poverty: third world immigration

Lower morals: the liberal government & media in Canada

Bristol.... simple question..... who would you say makes up the majority of the gang members & gang murderers in Canada? African & Asian immigrants or White Canadians?



Poverty. You're saying it didn't exist before immigration?

Lower Morals. The government of Canada WAS Liberal with a capital L but was hardly liberal with a small l. Also, it was well to the Right, politically, of even 'New Labour' but this is irrelevant.
Lower morals in the context of crime is taking something from someone else because you want it and screw the poor sod who is the victim. And you're saying that's something to do with the government? Or the Media? :lol:

Gang members and gang murders? From what I've heard, seen and read, since I've lived here, from people, media and RCMP, criminal gangs in Canada are primarily 'Bikers'...so that would be...er...White Canadians....with maybe a few White Americans thrown in, attracted by the money making opportunities.

However, if you mean what people would normally picture as gang members, that would be the no-hopers, disenfranchised, uneducated, unemployed, indoctrinated, copy-cats, know no better, poor etc etc.

There are, of course, exceptions but those deprived of things of that nature, that the rest of us take for granted, are more likely to be attracted to crime. Plenty of of information suggests immigrants may be more likely to be deprived and it may even be that some have contributed to their own deprivation.

But the same can be said of native peoples...like those on England's poverty ridden, crime ridden 'White' housing estates where generation after generation has never worked and all they know is social security, muggings, drug dens, vandalism, joy riding etc etc etc.