Is it time part 2

[manfan1523]

just want to see how long it takes this one to get shut down. carry on lads,
carry on

i think we all know what the thread is about

[poutismalakas]

LOOK I dont mind if people get heated BUT I dont want a race war OK if get's BAD this thread will be CLOSED a user who opens a part 3 they WILL go on a 8 hour break!!! ONLY WARNING!

[Bosanac]

Alright, so here we are..


So far we have come to these following conclusions..


- Christians are racist and bad
- Bush is stupid
- Muslims are terrorists



Any objections? :D

[manfan1523]

exactement mon cher ami, and pocahantis caused it all

[Milos_]

Bosanacc dont forget-Guns dont kill people,Dangerous minorities do.

[Bosanac]

Ah come on man, keep it English :)

[Bosanac]

Bosanacc dont forget-Guns dont kill people,Dangerous minorities do.

People kill people, bigger the crowd - more dangerous they get.


Take America for example, nobody has killed more people than them. They got so violent, they killed each other. :D
Remember the civil war

[manfan1523]

Bosanacc dont forget-Guns dont kill people,Dangerous minorities do.

and there we have it, minorities of islam are hte ones who are doing this, admitted minorities who have had a tour de force on much of the arabic and persian world but still minorities. i just say that the US does complete checks when it hands out travel visas by using racial profiling to decide when to really delve into the persons background, instead of doing it in airports, hows that one

[Bosanac]

and there we have it, minorities of islam are hte ones who are doing this, admitted minorities who have had a tour de force on much of the arabic and persian world but still minorities. i just say that the US does complete checks when it hands out travel visas by using racial profiling to decide when to really delve into the persons background, instead of doing it in airports, hows that one


Remember, 1 person can't do the same damage as 5 people with bombs.


1 person being the suicide bomber, opposed to 5 people in an airplane dropping bombs. Compare that

[manfan1523]

wait sorry what does that have to do with my quote, prolly a stupid quesetion but worth asking if i can carry on in the conversation.

[Bosanac]

wait sorry what does that have to do with my quote, prolly a stupid quesetion but worth asking if i can carry on in the conversation.

He said minor crowds are dangerous, and I said that bigger crowd is more dangerous


Wouldn't you agree, milos serb? :)

[manfan1523]

ok, but the reason this was brought up in the first place was because it is a minority that is doing this and we are discussing what the best way to deal with them is. it is a lot more probable that you do get one man with a bomb on a plane than five

[Bosanac]

ok, but the reason this was brought up in the first place was because it is a minority that is doing this and we are discussing what the best way to deal with them is. it is a lot more probable that you do get one man with a bomb on a plane than five



Well, simply stop dropping bombs and get out of Iraq. I think that would stop the suicide bombers

[Milos_]

I meant it as a joke,guess I left out a smiley:)

I hate the U.S.A:D can never forgive them for those 75 days of bombings.

[manfan1523]

in iraq it would but i think that we have pushed it a bit to far to stop big terrorist attacks. sadly

[nachi88]

@Devious.

How did you conclue I hate Islam?? In fact i dont. Its just another religion. Islamic history is just as bloody as Christian one , if not more.

Wat do you think the people of the Levant and Egypt were before the brth f Mohammad? Buddhists? They were Christians and few were Jews. It is after these places were invaded by arab armies that people were converted to islam. As simple as that. Dont bullshit by saying that thats not the case.

You are willing to forget all massacres by muslims and say that they never happened.

@Bosonnac- Kashmir was always Hindu. Infact the whole of India was Hindu, till the Islamic armies came in the 1000's-1100's. Why is it that people convert to Islam in these places only after the armies come there?
The same way the whole of Persia was Zorastrain till the arab armies invaded.

So much for being a religion of peace. :redeyes:

[devious]

It`s just not true that they converted to Islam because they were afraid to be killed, there is no such a thing Nachi, If they loved thier religion they even would get smart and pretend to be converted to Islam and do practice thier beloved chritian religion (as you assume) in secret, but you cant make someone loves somthing that he doesntt like and you cant force someone to convert to something that he cant accept.
You are wrong when you said that Muslims made ppl to convert to Islam or they`d be killed.. it`s just you know nothing about Islam and you think it`s just another religion like others, it`s not my friend and that`s the main reason all those ppl converted to Islam, still there are ppl that didnt convert to Islam back then and they choosed to still christians or whatever they were and they lived in peace among the muslmis.. that`s not my words.. it`s the Ottman, Turkey, Egyption chritian`s and Muslim`s history books say that.. so again your conclusion only based on irrational baseless facts, you never knew what is Islam and you never read the history facts that is with no doubt so far from your imaginary conclusions.
btw In Egypt there are 25% of population are christians, in may arab countries there are a not bad percentage of the population of christains and they are treated like any other Arab, in the middeast there is no religion nor color discriminations, we dont understand how it feel to be racist cause our religion didnt teach us that when we were young.. this is absolutly something your mind cant realize, cause again you know nothing about Islam and most of all you have never (and appearntly) will never experiance it, or I mean study it or even read about it.

[Bosanac]

@Bosonnac- Kashmir was always Hindu. Infact the whole of India was Hindu, till the Islamic armies came in the 1000's-1100's. Why is it that people convert to Islam in these places only after the armies come there?
The same way the whole of Persia was Zorastrain till the arab armies invaded.

So much for being a religion of peace. :redeyes:

Save the history lecture for somebody else, I flunked history in school. :D

I was discussing Iraq and current events, which in my opinion has nothing to do with how some people come to be the people they are right now, that still won't give me a reason for all this killing today.

[wolverine]

Devious,

I don't how it's in Egypt but things are not that good in Saudi Arabia. Their justice system is partial and totally flawed. A Muslim is better of in New York than a Christian in Riyadh. And every religion has its share of bloody history.

Nacchi,

Kashmir (and Indian history in general) is more complex. India is a conglomeration of 26 states each of which has (and still follow) a different language, diet, a different set of holidays (xcept for the national and religious holidays) and culture. Aroud 40-50 % of the population donot know Hindi (the national language) and can still live in India without knowing it. This diversity goes way back in history. At one point of time parts of Afghanistan were also a part of India (the Hindu scriptures speak abt Kandahar). The Indian subcontinent has been invaded by Aryans(some say its a myth), Greeks, Turks, Mongols, British, Portugese, French and Dutch. But the Indian history considers only the British invasion as foreign. The Mughals ruled India for 700-800 years. There were some rulers who were fanatics but those were only a minority. There has ne'er been any major disruption in the relegious stats, the Indian Muslim population has always been around the 15-20 % mark and even before the Mughals came India had strong trade links with Baghdad, Damascus and the Arab sea traders.

Coming back to Kashmir, when the British left they gave the princely states 3 choices - Join India, Join Pakistan or Be Independent. The states that comprised of what's now Pakistan and Bangladesh joined Pakistan, some within the Indian territory, choose to remain independent (and were later annexed to India - 'cos there's no point/sense in leaving them like that). Kashmir was then a muslim majority state with a Pak border and might've joined Pakistan but the ruler of Kashmir was a Hindu and he decided to join India. India then promised a plebiscite for the Kashmiries which was ne'er carried out. Had this Kashmir been anywhere inside India or had it joined Pakistan there would've been none of these issues. The current issues in Kashmir are political and prestige issues (the Indian govt does have its fair amount of blame) than religious. Kashmiries would like an Independent Kashmir. Pakistan might agree to that or see Kashmir join them. But for us Indians, Kashmir has always been and will always be an integral part of India.

[devious]

I gave up.. believe what you want guys.. it`s everybody`s right... we are all free.

[Cell]

Calm Down Rascists

Yahwee, Jehovah, Allah, or what ever you call God the father are all the same person.

[Bosanac]

Calm Down Rascists

Yahwee, Jehovah, Allah, or what ever you call God the father are all the same person.


I don't think Allah or God is a person, Cell. Does He even exist? What do you guys think?

If God existed, do you think our "Gods" (Allah and God) would stand by and watch us have wars like these?

[Cell]

The God of the Christians, Jews, and Muslims is the same All Mighty God. Only some people decided to say that Jesus is All Mighty God himself, when he is only God's son.

[Bosanac]

The God of the Christians, Jews, and Muslims is the same All Mighty God. Only some people decided to say that Jesus is All Mighty God himself, when he is only God's son.


No, my friend. That is Christians God. Has Jews God have ever had a human form messiah? Though, the religions morals are similar.. still does not mean they worship the same thing.

[Cell]

aLL mIGHTY gOD IS THE SAME jEWISH gOD THAT HAS NO PHYSICAL FORM, jEHOVAH. You must be confusing God with Jesus his son.

[Bosanac]

aLL mIGHTY gOD IS THE SAME jEWISH gOD THAT HAS NO PHYSICAL FORM, jEHOVAH. You must be confusing God with Jesus his son.


I am not confusing anything. You're confusing Islam, Christianity and Judiasm.

[Cell]

The teachings are different, but they all believe in the same God. Except Christians have added Christ.

[Bosanac]

The teachings are different, but they all believe in the same God. Except Christians have added Christ.

Nope, you messed up again. :(


Islam also have Mohammed. I can definitly see what you're saying, since the morals are same and everything else, it must be same God right? Well, not quite. It's a lot more complex than that.


We all believe in one God, true, but who's God is the real God? You answer that question when choosing your religion.

[Cell]

We both believe in the same God so your question is irrelevant. Even the Muslims call Christians and Jews the peole of the book because they share a common God. The Muslims derived from Abraham's son Ismael.

[Bosanac]

We both believe in the same God so your question is irrelevant. Even the Muslims call Christians and Jews the peole of the book because they share a common God. The Muslims derived from Abraham's son Ismael.

No, my God is not your God. My God had a messiah called Mohammed. Your God had a messiah called Jesus. It's not the same, therefore they can only be compared but not looked at as a same thing.

[Cell]

Our God is the same, but our religions differ in other aspects. The Jews claim their Messiah is yet to arrive, Mohammed is not a messiah but a prophet, and the Christians have a Messiah called Jesus Christ son of God.

--------Amen

[Bosanac]

Our God is the same, but our religions differ in other aspects. The Jews claim their Messiah is yet to arrive, Mohammed is not a messiah but a prophet, and the Christians have a Messiah called Jesus Christ son of God.

--------Amen


How can it be the same God if there are three different stories to it? One has a Mohammed, the other one has a Jesus, and the third ones' have yet to arrive. Therefore, there's 3 fictional Gods, which one is real? Can you really tell?


I would say Allah is the only real God, but than you'll say no.. God is the real God. You see where I'm going with this?

[Cell]

Allah is just a name the Muslims gave God. Yahwee or Jehovah is what Jews and Christians call God.

[Bosanac]

Allah is just a name the Muslims gave God. Yahwee or Jehovah is what Jews and Christians call God.

Yes, but we don't call Allah your God. We call Allah, Allah. Because they're not the same!

[Cell]

Its the same God but Mulims, Jews, and Christians call him by a different name.

[Ero]

Allah means God.... there is no point Cell, he doesnt understand what you mean

[Cell]

Allah means God.... there is no point Cell, he doesnt understand what you mean

Finally someone gets my point. So there is no use for the fighting becuase at the end that same god is going to kickall of our asses if we dont behave.

[m2lions]

I don't think Allah or God is a person, Cell. Does He even exist? What do you guys think?

If God existed, do you think our "Gods" (Allah and God) would stand by and watch us have wars like these?

Yes because we were given free will.

[manfan1523]

i thought muslims believed in Jesus

[poutismalakas]

i thought muslims believed in Jesus
Yes but ONLY as JUST a prophet and also they believe he DID NOT die on the Cross!!!! They believe Judas made to look like Christ and he died in Christ's place who went up into Heaven:boo:
Christ death and resurrection IS Something that is FUNDAMENTAL in Chrisitanity! What muslims believe is fine because MOST Christians believe there is no more Prophets after Christ because he is the Alpha and the Omega and by his death and resurrection we don't need new prophets just acceptance that Christ was risen from the dead so that humans can have what GOD wanted us to have before Adam and Eve fall! So hence we have no need for a new prophet!

[Saraj Fanático]

@Devious.

How did you conclue I hate Islam?? In fact i dont. Its just another religion. Islamic history is just as bloody as Christian one , if not more.

Wat do you think the people of the Levant and Egypt were before the brth f Mohammad? Buddhists? They were Christians and few were Jews. It is after these places were invaded by arab armies that people were converted to islam. As simple as that. Dont bullshit by saying that thats not the case.

You are willing to forget all massacres by muslims and say that they never happened.

@Bosonnac- Kashmir was always Hindu. Infact the whole of India was Hindu, till the Islamic armies came in the 1000's-1100's. Why is it that people convert to Islam in these places only after the armies come there?
The same way the whole of Persia was Zorastrain till the arab armies invaded.

So much for being a religion of peace. :redeyes:

Maybe because it is the biggest BS propaganda ever created?? :lol:
Its always the same story. Islamic army comes and kills billions then billions somehow convert leting go of the hatered. PAthetic...

Fun fact for you, do you know a number of US troops that joined the so-called War on Terror have converted to Islam. Shows how Islam is not a Terrorist Religion.

[Saraj Fanático]

I don't think Allah or God is a person, Cell. Does He even exist? What do you guys think?

If God existed, do you think our "Gods" (Allah and God) would stand by and watch us have wars like these?


God exists and I as a muslim beileve he is the creater of the universe, all living things and this planet. Now many ask the same question. If there is a god why does he let wars and death happen? In the Quran it is meantioned that God has created you to use your knewledge and mind. What a person does to another person is his patheticness and his dark hate in his heart. If you kill a life that was because of that persons guilt of not using his mind and love. It is not up to god to solve all of our problems. If he did solve all of our problems what is the meaning of life??? Why are we even here then? This world is a test to see how humans will treat each other. For now, it is looking very bad.

[Saraj Fanático]

Allah is just a name the Muslims gave God. Yahwee or Jehovah is what Jews and Christians call God.


Allah means god. its not a name mate.

[Bosanac]

Its the same God but Mulims, Jews, and Christians call him by a different name.

No, if it was a same thing we would all call Him same. We believe in different Gods.

Allah means God.... there is no point Cell, he doesnt understand what you mean

I understand what he means, I get the picture but it's wrong. If he and I believed in the same God, we would be in the same religion. He thinks there's one God (which is true) and all these religions, but that's where his theory ends. I also think there's one God, and there's all kinds of religions. I just don't look at Christians God, and Allah as the same thing because if that was true than we would all be in the same religion. I don't worship God, I worship Allah, and they are not the same thing.




Yes because we were given free will.


I was expecting that answer, but do you really think we have any free will left considering the situation? Do you think that Allah, or God (whichever you believe in) would let one person, George W. Bush, decide the fate of so many people?

[ulster21]

I don't think Allah or God is a person, Cell. Does He even exist? What do you guys think?

If God existed, do you think our "Gods" (Allah and God) would stand by and watch us have wars like these?

Free will, "God" does not control our actions.

[Bosanac]

Free will, "God" does not control our actions.

Did you read what I said up there?

[Fenerliyim]

Free will, "God" does not control our actions.



Yes humans have free will. God lets us make our own decisions but he already knows what we are gonna decide cause he knows everything. Its your choice on how you live and if you choose the good way then God will let u go to heaven.

If u believe in 1 God and that Mohammed was a prophet u will in the end go to heaven. If your sins outweight your deeds then you will burn in hell till u can repay for those sins and then you will go to heaven. But if you are an unbeliever then you will burn for an eternity.

[Fenerliyim]

Yes but ONLY as JUST a prophet and also they believe he DID NOT die on the Cross!!!! They believe Judas made to look like Christ and he died in Christ's place who went up into Heaven:boo:
Christ death and resurrection IS Something that is FUNDAMENTAL in Chrisitanity! What muslims believe is fine because MOST Christians believe there is no more Prophets after Christ because he is the Alpha and the Omega and by his death and resurrection we don't need new prophets just acceptance that Christ was risen from the dead so that humans can have what GOD wanted us to have before Adam and Eve fall! So hence we have no need for a new prophet!


Yes that is correct. We also believe that Jesus will come back down to Earth at one point and tell the people about the right religion. That is one of the signs that the day of judgement is coming closer. It has yet to happen.

[wolverine]

If u believe in 1 God and that Mohammed was a prophet u will in the end go to heaven. If your sins outweight your deeds then you will burn in hell till u can repay for those sins and then you will go to heaven. But if you are an unbeliever then you will burn for an eternity.

Do u believe that u can do all the crap that u want and still get away with it by believeing in 1 God and that Mohammed was a prophet ???

[Cell]

En la cruz en la cruz yo primero la luz
y las manchas de mi alma yo lave
fue aqui por fe yo vi a Jesus
y siempre on el yo vivire

[Bosanac]

Do u believe that u can do all the crap that u want and still get away with it by believeing in 1 God and that Mohammed was a prophet ???


No, that's not what he said. If you read his post, you will read that he said, "If your sins outweight your deeds then you will burn in hell till u can repay for those sins and then you will go to heaven" meaning that you being a believer does not guarantee your way to heaven. You still have to do good deeds, just as it is in Christianity.

[Cell]

No, that's not what he said. If you read his post, you will read that he said, "If your sins outweight your deeds then you will burn in hell till u can repay for those sins and then you will go to heaven" meaning that you being a believer does not guarantee your way to heaven. You still have to do good deeds, just as it is in Christianity.

Muhammed might of been a man of god inj my opinion, but not a full prophet like Moses.

[Bosanac]

Muhammed might of been a man of god inj my opinion, but not a full prophet like Moses.

You can't compare prophets. That's just stupid

[Cell]

You can't compare prophets. That's just stupid

There are great prophets like Moses, Samuel, Issaih, Jeremiah, and John the Baptist. There are minor prophets like Abdias, Joel, Amos, Nahum, and Habacuc. Mohammed would be like a teacher of the laws of God like a rabbi or priest, to me.

[Bosanac]

There are great prophets like Moses, Samuel, Issaih, Jeremiah, and John the Baptist. There are minor prophets like Abdias, Joel, Amos, Nahum, and Habacuc. Mohammed would be like a teacher of the laws of God like a rabbi or priest, to me.


I don't care, don't undermine Islams' prophet like that. I take it as an insult!

[Cell]

Hey you guys say Jesus the son of God is just a minor prophet even less than Moses.

[Cell]

Changing the subject. Ustasa are you Catholic?

[Ero]

Ustasa are you Catholic?

yes

[Cell]

yes

I knew it. :D

[Bosanac]

Yes that is correct. We also believe that Jesus will come back down to Earth at one point and tell the people about the right religion. That is one of the signs that the day of judgement is coming closer. It has yet to happen.


Fenerliyim, you believe that Jesus will come back down to Earth? I thought you were a Muslim. Shouldn't you believe that Mohammed will come back?

Or were you just speaking 'in their language'? :)

[Cell]

You cant compare Mohammed to Christ!!! Even if he was a prophet. No servant of God can sit on his son's throne. Not even Moses!!!

[Bosanac]

You cant compare Mohammed to Christ!!! Even if he was a prophet. No servant of God can sit on his son's throne. Not even Moses!!!


In your religion, Christ is the son of God. But I don't believe he is, I think he's just another guy and Mohammed is the only prophet.

[Cell]

In your religion, Christ is the son of God. But I don't believe he is, I think he's just another guy and Mohammed is the only prophet.

:lol: Mohammed the only prophet!!! :lol:
Muslims believe there are other prophets like Jesus, Moses, Isaiah, and Jeremiah. You dont even know the full aspects of your own religion!!! :lol:

[Bosanac]

:lol: Mohammed the only prophet!!! :lol:
Muslims believe there are other prophets like Jesus, Moses, Isaiah, and Jeremiah. You dont even know the full aspects of your own religion!!! :lol:


I believe what I believe, you can't tell me about my religion and my beliefs. That is something we all decide for ourselves, therefore this can not be discussed or argued.


Let's go back to the original topic..



WAR ON TERRORISM



Discuss

[Cell]

I believe what I believe, you can't tell me about my religion and my beliefs. That is something we all decide for ourselves, therefore this can not be discussed or argued.


Let's go back to the original topic..



WAR ON TERRORISM



Discuss

You just got brain shocked :lol:

[Bosanac]

You just got brain shocked :lol:

No, trust me, you don't want to mess with me. I have a certain tolerance towards other members, but make sure you don't cross that line. Since I know you're only trying to provoke me, I will not discuss Islam or anything else with you


But, NO! Muslims don't believe in other prophets, only Mohammed!

[Cell]

No, trust me, you don't want to mess with me. I have a certain tolerance towards other members, but make sure you don't cross that line. Since I know you're only trying to provoke me, I will not discuss Islam or anything else with you


But, NO! Muslims don't believe in other prophets, only Mohammed!

I aint trying to provoke you, but I learned in history class that Muslims belive in the Jewish prophets and in Christ.

[Bosanac]

I aint trying to provoke you, but I learned in history class that Muslims belive in the Jewish prophets and in Christ.

You weren't listening. I am a Muslim, and I do not believe in Christ or Moses!

[Cell]

You weren't listening. I am a Muslim, and I do not believe in Christ or Moses!

You werent listening. I heard Muslims believe in the Bible and the Quaran.

[Bosanac]

F*ck it, I have no time for this


I'm out

[Cell]

I win :D

[poutismalakas]

Stop It !!!!

[Fenerliyim]

Fenerliyim, you believe that Jesus will come back down to Earth? I thought you were a Muslim. Shouldn't you believe that Mohammed will come back?

Or were you just speaking 'in their language'? :)



I dont know how much u know about Islam but it states that Jesus is coming back not Muhammed (SAS). But Jesus will explain Islam is the right way.

Muhammed was the last true prophet. And I believe that.

Christianity is the closest religion to Islam. In the original Bible it also that women have to wear headscarves and so on but the Bible changed overtime and that is y Muhammed and the Quran was sent.

I mean they changed christianity a lot for example the "religious people" came together and decided that God was a Trinity. And that Jesus was the son of God. We dont believe that God is a Trinity. We believe in one god and only one god. The rest were his messengers.

[Bosanac]

I dont know how much u know about Islam but it states that Jesus is coming back not Muhammed (SAS). But Jesus will explain Islam is the right way.

Muhammed was the last true prophet. And I believe that.

Christianity is the closest religion to Islam. In the original Bible it also that women have to wear headscarves and so on but the Bible changed overtime and that is y Muhammed and the Quran was sent.

I mean they changed christianity a lot for example the "religious people" came together and decided that God was a Trinity. And that Jesus was the son of God. We dont believe that God is a Trinity. We believe in one god and only one god. The rest were his messengers.


Hm, are you sure about that?


I have been around Muslim people my entire life, even in USA, and nobody has ever told me that Jesus should be coming back. Only Mohammed. I will have to consult someone about that, because I still don't think that we, as Muslims, should believe that Jesus even exists.


Where did you get that information?

[Fenerliyim]

Hey you guys say Jesus the son of God is just a minor prophet even less than Moses.

No we dont.

Moses was the first prophet sent down with a book. Then David, then Jesus was sent down with a book.

But the Torah and the Bible have been changed by humans so we dont believe in the ones in the modern era. David's book has been lost for good.

That is why God has sent down the Quran which has never been changed.

There is 25 prophets stated in the Quran by name but it is stated that there is more 100,000 prophets who came over time showing people the right way.


Adam Noah Moses David Abraham Jesus Muhammed are the most important prophets in Islam.

[Bosanac]

I apologize to all, I seem to have forgot some of the things I've been thought.


I found this at islam.tc and I think the information is accurate.


Muslims do believe that Isa (A.S.) was sent down as a Prophet of Allah (God), but he (Jesus) is not God or Lord, nor the son of God. Muslims do not believe that Isa (A.S.), also known as Jesus by Christians and others, is dead or was ever crucified. We believe that he was raised to heaven and is there, and will descend at the appointed time, end all wars, and bring peace to the world. Like Jesus (A.S.), Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is also a Prophet and Messenger. Muhammed (P.B.U.H.) is the last Prophet, though, and there is none after him. Hence, Islam is the last religion, complete, with the Holy Qur'an as the unchanged and perfect word of God for over 1400 years, as God promised to preserve it till the last day for all of humankind, unlike sacred texts of other religions which have mulitple versions and are "revised" periodically. God, or Allah in Arabic, is Divine and Supreme Being and Creator.


Reason for my confusion: Jesus is called Isa in our religion.

[manfan1523]

no its true. i saw it. i have only read parts of the quran, not much but some. some christian freak tried to show me how jesus was true and he showed me that he exists and is supposed to come back even in Islam, of course that could have been something with the translation but anyhow. however he didnt convince me and i am still athiest.

back to the topic eh lads

[manfan1523]

wanna start a thread on jesus and Islam that one could be fun.

[Fenerliyim]

Hm, are you sure about that?


I have been around Muslim people my entire life, even in USA, and nobody has ever told me that Jesus should be coming back. Only Mohammed. I will have to consult someone about that, because I still don't think that we, as Muslims, should believe that Jesus even exists.


Where did you get that information?


Wow Bosnacc. I am suprised that you did not know that we believe in all other prophets as well. Muhammed was the last messenger not the only messenger.


I looked it up on google that Jesus will come back and assuming u can read turkish:

http://www.ahirzaman.net/alametler/alametler_01.html
http://www.kiyametalametleri.com/kitaptaalametler.html#05

[Bosanac]

Wow Bosnacc. I am suprised that you did not know that we believe in all other prophets as well. Muhammed was the last messenger not the only messenger.


I looked it up on google that Jesus will come back and assuming u can read turkish:

http://www.ahirzaman.net/alametler/alametler_01.html
http://www.kiyametalametleri.com/kitaptaalametler.html#05


I've found a reliable source, and read it. Thank you for correcting me. I haven't been in a Mosque for longer than 10 years now, you forget things during that time.

[manfan1523]

its why we're here supporting you. if your mosque cant get you to heaven, we can

[Fenerliyim]

Wow thats a long time. Dont u go to Cuma

[Bosanac]

Wow thats a long time. Dont u go to Cuma


There isn't one in my city

[manfan1523]

hes got us instead

[Bosanac]

hes got us instead

Haha, I won't lie, I have questioned the whole thing

[Fenerliyim]

where do u live

[poutismalakas]

I dont know how much u know about Islam but it states that Jesus is coming back not Muhammed (SAS). But Jesus will explain Islam is the right way.

Muhammed was the last true prophet. And I believe that.

Christianity is the closest religion to Islam. In the original Bible it also that women have to wear headscarves and so on but the Bible changed overtime and that is y Muhammed and the Quran was sent.

I mean they changed christianity a lot for example the "religious people" came together and decided that God was a Trinity. And that Jesus was the son of God. We dont believe that God is a Trinity. We believe in one god and only one god. The rest were his messengers.


In the Bible it says that women should veil ie wear scarfs themselveds IN church! and should dress modestly! Now we all now that only "Traditional Christian" Women do that when in church.

Scriptural texts cited as implicit support for the doctrine of the Trinity
This is a partial list.
John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known."
Matthew 28:19: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (see Trinitarian formula).
Matthew 4:10: "Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."'"
John 8:23-24: "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins."
John 8:58 "'I tell you the truth', Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'"
John 10:38: "But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
Revelation 1:17-18: "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."
John 12:41: "Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him." - As the context shows, this implied the Tetragrammaton in Isaiah 6:1 refers to Jesus.

Scriptural Refrenses to Christ being God in the flesh
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." together with John 1:14 "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
Colossians 2:9: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form"
John 10:30: "I and the Father are one."

[Fenerliyim]

John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known."

Which means only one GOD


Also the Bible has been changed when ever people have needed it to fit their own ways. Not everything u see is true in the Bible.

Christianity has changed a lot from what it was suppose to be to what it is now. Adopted stuff from other religions to make it easier for people to adapt. People are suppose to change for the religion, not change the religion for themselves.

[poutismalakas]

John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known."

Which means only one GOD
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." .
John 1:14 .[/B] "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 10:30: "I and the Father are one." :D

[poutismalakas]

John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known."

Which means only one GOD


Also the Bible has been changed when ever people have needed it to fit their own ways. Not everything u see is true in the Bible.

Christianity has changed a lot from what it was suppose to be to what it is now. Adopted stuff from other religions to make it easier for people to adapt. People are suppose to change for the religion, not change the religion for themselves.
your only reading what you want my friend! I understand the Muslim's arguement about the translations BUT only grammar would be affected and also we STILL have ancient Greek Biblical text! In the Bible Christ said many things and one was Love your fellow man as you love yourself! Love God! NEVER deny your spouse your love!!! And that He and father ARE ONE!

[poutismalakas]

Also Fener what is your opinion about the possiblity of Hagia Sophia's restoration back into a church as a condition in part of Turkey being admitted into the EU??

[Fenerliyim]

If there was more than 1 God there would be fights. If Jesus has the same power as God y could he not protect himself from crucification.

Jesus walked on water, made blind people see, brought people back from the dead which are known facts even by muslims but those are miracles just as how Muhammed split the moon in half. but if he was God he could have saved himself and could have seen right through Judas.


And as i said many times, Bible has been changed many times. I have one question, are all those quotes written by disciples like John saying he heard Jesus say that.

[poutismalakas]

If there was more than 1 God there would be fights. If Jesus has the same power as God y could he not protect himself from crucification.

Jesus walked on water, made blind people see, brought people back from the dead which are known facts even by muslims but those are miracles just as how Muhammed split the moon in half. but if he was God he could have saved himself and could have seen right through Judas.


And as i said many times, Bible has been changed many times. I have one question, are all those quotes written by disciples like John saying he heard Jesus say that.
according the book of John when Christ said "the Father and I are one" He said it to all the disciples at least that is what I took from when I read it during last lent! Also on a side note how come when I am talking about religion that a popup spam of women spread legged pops up on my pc:mad2: ???:shocked: Not being superstitous but tthat WAS WIERD!!

[Fenerliyim]

Also Fener what is your opinion about the possiblity of Hagia Sophia's restoration back into a church as a condition in part of Turkey being admitted into the EU??


I havent heard of that but if that is true i dont think that should happen. Ayasofya has been a mosque since 1453. When someone conquers land they have the right to change it as they wish and as long as Turkey belongs to the Turks it should stay as a Mosque. EU has no right to change it. Seems as if EU is trying to make us Christians and make us lose our religion as if the Turkish Military and Sezer isnt trying hard enough to make practicing our religion harder.

[Fenerliyim]

according the book of John when Christ said "the Father and I are one" He said it to all the disciples at least that is what I took from when I read it during last lent! Also on a side note how come when I am talking about religion that a popup spam of women spread legged pops up on my pc:mad2: ???:shocked: Not being superstitous but tthat WAS WIERD!!


LOL. We know what kind of sites u been to. Anyway so u r saying that is just what people heard Jesus say and they are just repeating what he said. How do u know they did not change that. It is not hard to change something.

Well i have to go right now so we'll just have to continue this tomorrow.

[poutismalakas]

I havent heard of that but if that is true i dont think that should happen. Ayasofya has been a mosque since 1453. When someone conquers land they have the right to change it as they wish and as long as Turkey belongs to the Turks it should stay as a Mosque. EU has no right to change it. Seems as if EU is trying to make us Christians and make us lose our religion as if the Turkish Military and Sezer isnt trying hard enough to make practicing our religion harder.
Actually Hagia Sophia has been Museum since 1922. It may have been Mosque BUT it was built to be a Christian church and was one until 1453. I think only the arguement for it not happening is because of cultural heritage for both the Christian and Islamic art in the building. If it does happen think of how much that would go to repairing any lingering hatred we have between each other? and also Istanbul's economy would benefit greatly with all the Pilgrims coming to the Cathedral for weekly services and especailly during Holy week and Holy Pascha?

[poutismalakas]

LOL. We know what kind of sites u been to. Anyway so u r saying that is just what people heard Jesus say and they are just repeating what he said. How do u know they did not change that. It is not hard to change something.

Well i have to go right now so we'll just have to continue this tomorrow.
Well the same could be said in regards to the writting down of the Quran BUT I say let's have God decide who is correct and until then... WE SHOULD JUST HAVE LOVE AND RESPECT each other's beliefs!!!!!!! And try NOT to hurt each other feelings on purpose!

[devious]

I think this site might be useful for ppl chatting here..
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/
have fun!

.................

I just want to say soemthing to the believers, specially Muslmis..

Sorat JONAH (Yusif):

10:99 ""If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!
10:100 No soul can believe, except by the will of God, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand.
10:101 Say: "Behold all that is in the heavens and on earth"; but neither Signs nor Warners profit those who believe not.
10:102 Do they then expect (any thing) but (what happened in) the days of the men who passed away before them? Say: "Wait ye then: for I, too, will wait with you.
10:103 In the end We deliver Our apostles and those who believe: Thus is it fitting on Our part that We should deliver those who believe!
10:104 Say: O ye men! If ye are in doubt as to my religion, (behold!) I worship not what ye worship, other than God! But I worship God - Who will take your souls (at death): I am commanded to be (in the ranks) of the Believers""


Do you know who was God referred with "thou" to? He was referring to Muhammed himself! he was talking to Muhammed the prophet with those words, do you know what this mean?
What Im trying to say dont bother yourself with the non believers.. they are totally worthless your effort trying to make them understand, in the end they wont, wether because of thier stubbornness or thier blinded hearts or minds (I mean their total ignorant).
Just buy my words and dont bother yourselves.. and thank God always that you are Muslims... it`s the most precious blessing ever, trust me!
cheers..

[poutismalakas]

I think this site might be useful for ppl chatting here..
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/
have fun!

.................

I just want to say soemthing to the believers, specially Muslmis..

Sorat JONAH (Yusif):

10:99 ""If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!
10:100 No soul can believe, except by the will of God, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand.
10:101 Say: "Behold all that is in the heavens and on earth"; but neither Signs nor Warners profit those who believe not.
10:102 Do they then expect (any thing) but (what happened in) the days of the men who passed away before them? Say: "Wait ye then: for I, too, will wait with you.
10:103 In the end We deliver Our apostles and those who believe: Thus is it fitting on Our part that We should deliver those who believe!
10:104 Say: O ye men! If ye are in doubt as to my religion, (behold!) I worship not what ye worship, other than God! But I worship God - Who will take your souls (at death): I am commanded to be (in the ranks) of the Believers""


Do you know who was God referred with "thou" to? He was referring to Muhammed himself! he was talking to Muhammed the prophet with those words, do you know what this mean?
What Im trying to say dont bother yourself with the non believers.. they are totally worthless your effort trying to make them understand, in the end they wont, wether because of thier stubbornness or thier blinded hearts or minds (I mean their total ignorant).
Just buy my words and dont bother yourselves.. and thank God always that you are Muslims... it`s the most precious blessing ever, trust me!
cheers..
Devious I am niether Blind NOR stubborn NOR total ignorant and I hope that statement wasn't directed at me?! Your statement can be applied to ALL people who refuse to accept Christ's Ressurection as fact and Nessesatly for Salvation. My Addititude has been unless my beliefs are insulted or attack, is to live and let live. None of my posts are meant to insult only provoke Thought and Debate

[Fenerliyim]

Poutis believes in what he believes. We have to respect that.

I know that Ayasofya is a museum and that already brings a lot tourist. I think Turks would get mad if you tried to make it a Church again.

The Quran is not what other people said, it is directly God. What are people heard Muhammed say are written as hadiths(not sure if this is right in english). Those are books which tell you how Muhammed acted and that we should take his example and also it has some quotes from him. Dont get hadiths messed up with the Quran.


Devious, muslims should always try to set a good example and try to convert people to the right religion. I know many Americans who have converted to Islam because they saw clean and good hearted muslims were.

[devious]

Poutismalakas.. I didnt insult you and never in my intentions!! I respect your religion and beliefs and I totally respect ppl`s choices and opinions as long they never hurt other`s feelings, even the atheist ppl, that was never been my problem at all! I think you just need to read my little post again dude.

Fene.. This subject should be discussed in the right places and for specific ppl, the ones who needs to learn and understand.

Just remember dont dicuss the Islam with ppl who have no manners and wont mind anytime to curse you and your religion which is my religion too, you are not speaking for yourself but for a nation..
Just try to avoid ppl who are worthless.. I hope you know what I mean.

[Cell]

I know more about Islam than Bossanac? :lol:
Next time he should learn to first confirm what he says first. Not that like if I'm anti-Muslim. I was telling him from the beginning that Muslims belived in all the prophets, but only agreed that Jesus was not the son of God. You see we are all cousins in faith Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

My main point was that we all believe in the same God.

[poutismalakas]

Poutismalakas.. I didnt insult you and never in my intentions!! I respect your religion and beliefs and I totally respect ppl`s choices and opinions as long they never hurt other`s feelings, even the atheist ppl, that was never been my problem at all! I think you just need to read my little post again dude.. I just wanted you to comfirm what I was thinking :D


Fene.. This subject should be discussed in the right places and for specific ppl, the ones who needs to learn and understand..


Just remember dont dicuss the Islam with ppl who have no manners and wont mind anytime to curse you and your religion which is my religion too, you are not speaking for yourself but for a nation..
Just try to avoid ppl who are worthless.. I hope you know what I mean.
If people are rude then ignore them but if they want honest mutally respectful conversation then talk.

Devious I think that ignorant and disrespectful people aren't worthless just foolish:D

[Bosanac]

where do u live

West USA


Anyway, I think you guys have taken this thread to weird places. My question was, why would our God let us have wars like these? If I was to see a discussion about religion, I would've never asked your guys' opinion.


I know most of you said free will, but let's consider the free will we have.. We can do nothing to change these things. Eventhough we want to, yes? How is that we have any free will towards the situation, especially the people in Iraq. Are US letting them have any free-will? For what I've seen, it was bombs, invasion and the Iraqies can do nothing about it. Why would our God would let his be killed like that?

[Cell]

West USA


Anyway, I think you guys have taken this thread to weird places. My question was, why would our God let us have wars like these? If I was to see a discussion about religion, I would've never asked your guys' opinion.


I know most of you said free will, but let's consider the free will we have.. We can do nothing to change these things. Eventhough we want to, yes? How is that we have any free will towards the situation, especially the people in Iraq. Are US letting them have any free-will? For what I've seen, it was bombs, invasion and the Iraqies can do nothing about it. Why would our God would let his followers be killed like that?

Free will. But at the end God will bring Judgment to the Earth.

[poutismalakas]

West USA


Anyway, I think you guys have taken this thread to weird places. My question was, why would our God let us have wars like these? If I was to see a discussion about religion, I would've never asked your guys' opinion.


I know most of you said free will, but let's consider the free will we have.. We can do nothing to change these things. Eventhough we want to, yes? How is that we have any free will towards the situation, especially the people in Iraq. Are US letting them have any free-will? For what I've seen, it was bombs, invasion and the Iraqies can do nothing about it. Why would our God would let his followers be killed like that?

According to Christian Belief when Adam and Eve fell we became suceptible to sin and temptation. When we fell God released his direct power over us leaving us to freely choose our path. That is why he came down as Christ to give us an option to come back to him.

Man has freewill but due to his separation from God man is weak and suceptible to Satan's mechinations and plots. Satan's actions are due to his hatred and jealousy of man. Men who have fallen into his trap have and will commit evil. Men who are good but foolish have also comitted evil. Remember the road to hell is paved with good intentions!

[ulster21]

West USA


Anyway, I think you guys have taken this thread to weird places. My question was, why would our God let us have wars like these? If I was to see a discussion about religion, I would've never asked your guys' opinion.


I know most of you said free will, but let's consider the free will we have.. We can do nothing to change these things. Eventhough we want to, yes? How is that we have any free will towards the situation, especially the people in Iraq. Are US letting them have any free-will? For what I've seen, it was bombs, invasion and the Iraqies can do nothing about it. Why would our God would let his be killed like that?

Other men take away many aspects of your own free will. "God" doesn't have anything to do with wars, it is men. Some people are evil.......... that is the world we live in. Don't blame it on "God"

[Bosanac]

So basically what you're saying is that America is controlled by Satans?


Hm.. :worried:


And than people who are taking Americas side in this war are Satans followers?

[ulster21]

So basically what you're saying is that America is controlled by Satans?


Hm.. :worried:

The government....yes. Don't act as if muslims are all little angels Bos.

[Bosanac]

The government....yes. Don't act as if muslims are all little angels Bos.


Well, they do fit the description, don't they?

[Cell]

In the cross In the cross
I first saw the light
and the sins form soul i cleansed
it was their by faith is saw Jesus Christ
and always with him i shall stay

[ulster21]

Well, they do fit the description, don't they?

the U.S. government........ most definately. But wasn't it this government who bombed your so called enemy(Serbia). Think about it Bos, if an evil & corrupt government was on the side of Bosnia what does that make Bosnia?

[Cell]

En la cruz en la cruz
yo primero vi la luz
y las manchas de mi alma yo lave
fue alli por fe yo vi a Jesus
y siempre con el yo vivire

[ulster21]

En la cruz en la cruz
yo primero vi la luz
y las manchas de mi alma yo lave
fue alli por fe yo vi a Jesus
y siempre con el yo vivire

Do it in French as well :lol:

[Cell]

Italian
En la cro En la cro
Dont know th rest

[Cell]

Have any of you heard that hymn?

[Bosanac]

the U.S. government........ most definately. But wasn't it this government who bombed your so called enemy(Serbia). Think about it Bos, if an evil & corrupt government was on the side of Bosnia what does that make Bosnia?


No, wasn't it the UN who helped us out? I don't think US would've if they weren't asked by the UN.

[Cell]

Quien de su amor me apartara?
Angustia o tribulacion?
Peligro o Persecucion?
Hambre o Desnudez?
Quien es el que condenara?
Jesus en la cruz murio?
La vida eterna me espera ya
La plenitud de su dolor

[devious]

West USA


Anyway, I think you guys have taken this thread to weird places. My question was, why would our God let us have wars like these? If I was to see a discussion about religion, I would've never asked your guys' opinion.


I know most of you said free will, but let's consider the free will we have.. We can do nothing to change these things. Eventhough we want to, yes? How is that we have any free will towards the situation, especially the people in Iraq. Are US letting them have any free-will? For what I've seen, it was bombs, invasion and the Iraqies can do nothing about it. Why would our God would let his be killed like that?

Just open your mind for me for a second and I would tell you what I think about this clever question..
I assume that you have a clue about God`s believers and "His" as you refered, the ppl that respects his religion and obey him, they avoid the wrong ways and the other failthy desired that every Muslime knows about, so what If those Muslmis that have been blessed with God`s most precious thing every, his Mercy upon them.. didnt he gave them the privilege of being muslmis which is something most of ppl didnt get and most of them are lost! then when comes those Muslims ppl that have given this mercy and privilege and disobey thier God, and when they start killing thier brothers muslmis, and steal them and making all these guits and murders that Saddam has dead to his own ppl, and what the different Iraqies` tribes were doing fighting and killing eachother.. what God is doing now is called in Islam the infliction, as he send them the suffereing for not obeying him and for forgeting thier Islam.. that what God would do to any Muslim when he do a sin for example, believe me It happens to me and all of us (muslims) all the time.. when you stop praying for awhile, or when you do any of sins.. you just would find much of problems coming from everywhere.. then when you just return to God asking his forgivness you find amazingly and magically those problems are gone.. he is just trying to remind those ppl of Islam and he is punishing them for thier disobeyment...
The USA are there cause God wants to, the Israelians are killing the palestinan and Lebanon ppl cause God wants that, do you know why? it`s not an infliction for those ppl in Iraq, Plastine and lebanon only, it`s for the all Arab.. our governments and presidents are afraid, each are thinking about thier postions that they dont want to lose, they still rule thier countries as kings! if they went to war defending thier felow mulims they would lose thier money and maybe thier lives that`s why they dont care.. they have just simply forgot thier religion and they are being hypocrits only to keep thier money and positions.. if they were real muslims, real men they would have fought Israel and the US and any other INVADER.
Did you turn on the arabian channels ever? you see Muslim women naked dancing and guys drinking in the vedio clips just like everybody else in the world, just like those ppl who arnt muslims.. if you came to Egypt you``d think it`s a part of Europe seeing Muslm girls almost naked in streets.. I went to Istanbul last month and most of ppl thier are muslms but they almost know nothing about thier religion letting thier kids live the style of the non muslims that didnt have the privilege of being muslmis!
Maybe the reason I was trying to explain wont be right, but I just sometimes feel like God is so angry of Us Muslmis that should be something else than what we are doing and living right now, He is so mad at us cause we are getting away from our religion because we prefered the life upon the heaven, we think that we will live forever and we are doing all kind of sins.
I think that God is still so mercy though.. he is trying to remind us by sending us all those problems, he is trying to remind us of the of Islam, he didnt give up with us yet, I hope he wont for a very long time cause you know what will happen if he did.. it`d be just the end of everything, I guess you know what I mean bro. :boo:

[Cell]

en un monte que dios....

[m2lions]

Bos you think the US government is satan or being controlled by satan? That is a pretty bold statement. I dont think satan would do any of the good that the US govt. has done. Also, the US govt is made up of a lot of people. You are grouping everyone into that category. Also, is it good for a person to stand by and do nothing while someone else is being hurt? The Iraq war can be debated all day, but in the end Sadaam was a bad person who killed many people and the US did something about it (the current president did not put him in power and cant be blamed for a past presidents decision to put someone like that in power).

Devious, I will not pretend to know anything about Islam, but I really dont think your god would be killing his followers. I also cant imagine, if Islam is as peaceful as you preach that he would want Muslims to kill Israelis. I think the muslims raising their kids like non muslims, will be judged when they die, but not killed for it.

[Cell]

Dont want to be an American idiot!!!!! tennatenat
Dont want to be controlled by the media!! tetneteneten
Nice Song you should hear it. :lol:

[Fenerliyim]

I remember that the August 17, 1999 Earthquake in Istanbul was centered on this huge party that the army was having. now thats punishment.


Lol guys i was just listening to American Idiot by greenday when i saw ur post

[Fenerliyim]

Just open your mind for me for a second and I would tell you what I think about this clever question..
I assume that you have a clue about God`s believers and "His" as you refered, the ppl that respects his religion and obey him, they avoid the wrong ways and the other failthy desired that every Muslime knows about, so what If those Muslmis that have been blessed with God`s most precious thing every, his Mercy upon them.. didnt he gave them the privilege of being muslmis which is something most of ppl didnt get and most of them are lost! then when comes those Muslims ppl that have given this mercy and privilege and disobey thier God, and when they start killing thier brothers muslmis, and steal them and making all these guits and murders that Saddam has dead to his own ppl, and what the different Iraqies` tribes were doing fighting and killing eachother.. what God is doing now is called in Islam the infliction, as he send them the suffereing for not obeying him and for forgeting thier Islam.. that what God would do to any Muslim when he do a sin for example, believe me It happens to me and all of us (muslims) all the time.. when you stop praying for awhile, or when you do any of sins.. you just would find much of problems coming from everywhere.. then when you just return to God asking his forgivness you find amazingly and magically those problems are gone.. he is just trying to remind those ppl of Islam and he is punishing them for thier disobeyment...
The USA are there cause God wants to, the Israelians are killing the palestinan and Lebanon ppl cause God wants that, do you know why? it`s not an infliction for those ppl in Iraq, Plastine and lebanon only, it`s for the all Arab.. our governments and presidents are afraid, each are thinking about thier postions that they dont want to lose, they still rule thier countries as kings! if they went to war defending thier felow mulims they would lose thier money and maybe thier lives that`s why they dont care.. they have just simply forgot thier religion and they are being hypocrits only to keep thier money and positions.. if they were real muslims, real men they would have fought Israel and the US and any other INVADER.
Did you turn on the arabian channels ever? you see Muslim women naked dancing and guys drinking in the vedio clips just like everybody else in the world, just like those ppl who arnt muslims.. if you came to Egypt you``d think it`s a part of Europe seeing Muslm girls almost naked in streets.. I went to Istanbul last month and most of ppl thier are muslms but they almost know nothing about thier religion letting thier kids live the style of the non muslims that didnt have the privilege of being muslmis!
Maybe the reason I was trying to explain wont be right, but I just sometimes feel like God is so angry of Us Muslmis that should be something else than what we are doing and living right now, He is so mad at us cause we are getting away from our religion because we prefered the life upon the heaven, we think that we will live forever and we are doing all kind of sins.
I think that God is still so mercy though.. he is trying to remind us by sending us all those problems, he is trying to remind us of the of Islam, he didnt give up with us yet, I hope he wont for a very long time cause you know what will happen if he did.. it`d be just the end of everything, I guess you know what I mean bro. :boo:

You guys shouldnt have betrayed the Ottomans.

[manfan1523]

watch it!

[devious]

maybe..

[Bosanac]

That is a very good answer devious, but I just don't think that is what is happening. For example, if we consider that God is the Father and we are his children. No matter what the child does, a Father would never wish anything bad on them. A Father would never get a 'revenge' on his children, no matter what has happened.

[Fenerliyim]

Technically he isnt our Father just our Creator. Theres a difference. Plus God isnt human or anything else that we can imagine. He doesnt have the same feelings as humans.

[devious]

Exactly Fene.. this is a clever point, it`s wrong to think that a God has the same way of thinking or a way of feelings like humans, wecant imagin anyother way of reacting or living cause we never experiance it so it`s quite hard to try to imagine the reasons for a God to create, to give, to take, to be angry or happy.. maybe God has discribed that he gets the feeling of anger when we do a sin and he gets happy when we do something good just for us to understand, for our simple brains to realize..when infact there are things more complicated for our simple brains to understand that is happening for God you know.. I mean God knows everyone of us, he feels everyone of us, he doesnt forget like us, he doesnt do mistakes like us, he do everything on purpose, he doesnt sleep or get a headache! (there are ppl believe that even God get thursty and he drinks wine :lol: ).. if you can imagine a living thing that has all those powers of creation, all those characteristics then I think maybe you would know what this life for? and why that not everyone do believe in God? and why he let wars, the killing and everything that is bad happen?
But the fact is you cant.. so let us not wonder too much or we would lose our brains! :tinfoil:

[Bosanac]

Technically he isnt our Father just our Creator. Theres a difference. Plus God isnt human or anything else that we can imagine. He doesnt have the same feelings as humans.

I know what you mean, but that's not exactly what I meant. I didn't actually mean he is our Father, I meant that he is the creator. That's just a technicality, Fenerliyim. My point is why would a Creator, destroy something He has created, no matter what the circumstances? I mean, I know you guys are saying He's not a human being, is He a robot??? Come on.. If He created us, we're a part of Him.

[Bosanac]

so let us not wonder too much or we would lose our brains! :tinfoil:


Probably a good idea :D

[Cell]

God is our father and creator. I would just like to remind Fener.

[manfan1523]

Not needed!

[Cell]

i say we kill all the arabs. then we wont hurt their feelings by taking them aside and giving them full searches everytime. then we can focus on strip searching other groups plus take over their oil fields and make plane fuel cheaper.

Rascist American burn in hell!!!

[manfan1523]

aww come on it was a joke. do you actually think that i believe that. that would be retarded. you guys are way too serious about this stuff

[Cell]

that will teach you to watch what you right!!! Remember whatever comes from the mind of man usually is usually true insentive

[bigfatsausage]

Rascist American burn in hell!!!

Shut up muppet !!!

[Cell]

***k You!!!

[bigfatsausage]

***k You!!!

You burrito eating twat. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[manfan1523]

You burrito eating twat. :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :ronaldo: :ronaldo: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :smoking:

[Come on England]

It is possible to say that not all muslims are terrorists BUT, looking at polls in newspapers, the truth is the MAJORITY of muslims do sympathise with terrorists, therefore supporting them.

[Cherry.DeRossi]

It is possible to say that not all muslims are terrorists BUT, looking at polls in newspapers, the truth is the MAJORITY of muslims do sympathise with terrorists, therefore supporting them.

I think that because they can relate to them, 'coz they're from the same religion and normally live in 3rd world countries. If the situation were the other way around, I mean if the USA were the 3rd world country and the muslims are the developed country as USA now, the muslim won't be terrorist...*hypothetically*

Conclusion, it's all because of situation and condition...eerrr...hope that make some sense...;)

[Bosanac]

It is possible to say that not all muslims are terrorists BUT, looking at polls in newspapers, the truth is the MAJORITY of muslims do sympathise with terrorists, therefore supporting them.


Polls at newspaper, give me a break. Who votes in those, Muslims? I don't think so

[Come on England]

Polls at newspaper, give me a break. Who votes in those, Muslims? I don't think so


No mate, not papers. Sky News did a poll and they are very unbiased. One in 5 muslims sympathise with the terrorists. Do a google search

[Bosanac]

No mate, not papers. Sky News did a poll and they are very unbiased. One in 5 muslims sympathise with the terrorists. Do a google search


Man come on, don't be make a fool of yourself. How many people in middle east have internet? Tsk tsk :tsk:

[Come on England]

Man come on, don't be make a fool of yourself. How many people in middle east have internet? Tsk tsk :tsk:

What has the internet got to do with it? Sky News is a tv broadcaster where viewers watch on tv of the happenings around the globe. Australia have it too. It gives the opportunity to British people to participate in polls everyday. Check Google.

[ulster21]

I think that because they can relate to them, 'coz they're from the same religion and normally live in 3rd world countries. If the situation were the other way around, I mean if the USA were the 3rd world country and the muslims are the developed country as USA now, the muslim won't be terrorist...*hypothetically*

Conclusion, it's all because of situation and condition...eerrr...hope that make some sense...;)

If things were different then things would not be the same.......... NO SH*T!!!

Live in reality Cherry, not in a world of if and buts.

[Come on England]

It has nothing to do with Situation and conditions. All their actions are based on that Quran.

[Bosanac]

What has the internet got to do with it? Sky News is a tv broadcaster where viewers watch on tv of the happenings around the globe. Australia have it too. It gives the opportunity to British people to participate in polls everyday. Check Google.


How do you vote, if not over internet? Over telephone?

[Bosanac]

It has nothing to do with Situation and conditions. All their actions are based on that Quran.



You have said too much, no that is not what happens you racist prick. Quran is the best bible out there, it never under any circumstence promotes any violence!

[Come on England]

You have said too much, no that is not what happens you racist prick. Quran is the best bible out there, it never under any circumstence promotes any violence!

The Koran is the word of Allah and can not be disputed. The Koran says the infidels must be converted or die. Islam's entire history has been one of conquest and forced conversion.

Referring to the Voting on Sky News you are obviously not aware of Sky Interactive. It's satelite where it has lots of options on the remote control. You can play interactive games, listen to music, watch replays of football matches and you can participate in polls on the Sky News channel. Alternatively you could vote online via www.skynews.co.uk

[Bosanac]

The Koran is the word of Allah and can not be disputed. The Koran says the infidels must be converted or die. Islam's entire history has been one of conquest and forced conversion.


That's a propaganda, and not true. You can check the discussion we've had on that.


Referring to the Voting on Sky News you are obviously not aware of Sky Interactive. It's satelite where it has lots of options on the remote control. You can play interactive games, listen to music, watch replays of football matches and you can participate in polls on the Sky News channel. Alternatively you could vote online via www.skynews.co.uk


Alright, how many people in middle east have Sky News, the British news? Not to mention their remote controls, or sattelites, stop talking, this is ridicilous!

[Pape]

CONCLUSION: RELIGION HAS BROUGHT MORE DEATH AND PAIN THAN GOOD TO THIS WORLD!

Religion is the reason why I'm living as alien today, religion is the reason why every one of my people was distrupted and had to start from 0 (ZERO) nothing, dead futures. My parents now just live to support me and to make me a good life while they had theirs taken away before they ever got to live, religion did that too. Now I see my peoples getting even more extreme with their religions!!! I will never believe or love god because I love myself and my friends more than the evil man!

Please if you don't agree tell me what good religion has given any of us???

[Come on England]

That's a propaganda, and not true. You can check the discussion we've had on that.




Alright, how many people in middle east have Sky News, the British news? Not to mention their remote controls, or sattelites, stop talking, this is ridicilous!


I'm talking about British muslims and 1st generations residing here!

Believe it or not I do hope it's all propaganda but there are certain things that are baffling me about the muslims. If people respect me, my culture, my country, our people then I respect them. Indians and Polish are a prime example of this. I think they're great but I'm not happy with the immigration system.

There's one muslim I do respect. Can you guess why?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41312000/jpg/_41312087_khanflag203.jpg http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41312000/jpg/_41312289_khan270.jpg http://www.amirkhan-boxing.com/ami0105_web_images/gallery/visit_stjohn0046_12.jpg

[Bosanac]

I'm talking about British muslims and 1st generations residing here!

Believe it or not I do hope it's all propaganda but there are certain things that are baffling me about the muslims. If people respect me, my culture, my country, our people then I respect them. Indians and Polish are a prime example of this. I think they're great but I'm not happy with the immigration system.

There's one muslim I do respect. Can you guess why?



Muslims in Britain can not speak for the whole Muslim civilization.


It is propaganda, I know, I'm a Muslim and I've always been told exactly this; " If somebody hits you with a rock, you take a piece of bread and give it to them ". Thefore, the terrorists can in no way be related to the Muslim civilization, or be compared to. Terrorists are terrorists, no matter what the religion. When they chose to be terrorists, they have betrayed our religion.

[bob bob]

English is not my strong point as you can tell.

fixed

[bigfatsausage]

Muslims in Britain can not speak for the whole Muslim civilization.


It is propaganda, I know, I'm a Muslim and I've always been told exactly this; " If somebody hits you with a rock, you take a piece of bread and give it to them ". Thefore, the terrorists can in no way be related to the Muslim civilization, or be compared to. Terrorists are terrorists, no matter what the religion. When they chose to be terrorists, they have betrayed our religion.


hey you are the one justifying suicide bombings....bread or rock???...get outta here you racist pig!

[bigfatsausage]

I'm talking about British muslims and 1st generations residing here!

Believe it or not I do hope it's all propaganda but there are certain things that are baffling me about the muslims. If people respect me, my culture, my country, our people then I respect them. Indians and Polish are a prime example of this. I think they're great but I'm not happy with the immigration system.

There's one muslim I do respect. Can you guess why?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41312000/jpg/_41312087_khanflag203.jpg http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41312000/jpg/_41312289_khan270.jpg http://www.amirkhan-boxing.com/ami0105_web_images/gallery/visit_stjohn0046_12.jpg


Respect...See how we brits embrace someone who wants to be a brit? Try to change us by force though and you can fight for it ...

[Knockout]

I will knockout the rascists here!!!

[Bosanac]

hey you are the one justifying suicide bombings....bread or rock???...get outta here you racist pig!

Watch the way you talking, lil' fairy

Was it something I said? Oh yes.. I'm a Muslim. Look at that, and I'm the racist one. Tsk, tsk. :tsk:

You are mad because I justified the suicide bombings. Well, imagine how mad I am watching America kill all the Muslims. I repeat, Muslims. Not terrorists, they can't even find the terrorists, let alone kill them.

[Saraj Fanático]

bosanacc, just ignore that idiot. Your much smarter.

[Pape]

AGAIN!!!

CONCLUSION: RELIGION HAS BROUGHT MORE DEATH AND PAIN THAN GOOD TO THIS WORLD!

Religion is the reason why I'm living as alien today, religion is the reason why every one of my people was distrupted and had to start from 0 (ZERO) nothing, dead futures. My parents now just live to support me and to make me a good life while they had theirs taken away before they ever got to live, religion did that too. Now I see my peoples getting even more extreme with their religions!!! I will never believe or love god because I love myself and my friends more than the evil man!

Please if you don't agree tell me what good religion has given any of us???

[poutismalakas]

GUYS STOP IT!!!!!!!! NO NAME CALLING!!!!!!!!! OF ELSE This thread is CLOSED!!!

[Saraj Fanático]

^^^ There is much truth about that. Religion is Number 1 killer but none of the religions are connected to killing people. I think it is that people follow it the wrong way and there comes trouble.