Human Evolution Is Getting Destorted

[Sebastian]

...Watching all those innocent victims...Izraeli...Lebanons...People that mind their own business...People that watch television and hug their pets,simple,ordinary and everyday stuff are being massacred like as if they are planctons:confused:when i was litle i was confused when i gazed at the "mature"people and their greed and perverse need for money,so that they can design their Alter Ego,which is suffering,becouse they're Ego is booring...The Wisest man is the one that has accepted his flaws,fears and his own self,without trying to become someone else like 90%of the human civilization...and now i still wonder how the human society transformed in to this Perpetual Machine that considers people only as"teeth"for it's Engine propelers,nothing more...People are under constant repression,but yet they think that they are free,indipendent and they make their own decisiones and that they are their own council...People think that they are their own Masters and creators of their destiny,but yet they work like ants...they go arround without a leader,blindly fallowing and obaying orders,until one day they look at themselves in the mirror and they see someone that they doesnt know...Someone who they newer thought it would apear...Becouse the Mass Suggestion and Propaganda,Religion and Politics made them to believe that they're lives will be complete and that they will be happy old people:lol:that their refined spirit will compensate the tired and old flesh and their body...So they go and waste their youth and their golden years for fullfiling someone's else dream and ideals,becouse they were to blind,too buissy trying to buy them selves a cool looking car...House on the Beach,another house so that their neighbour would look at them with envy...but what they doesnt know is that their neighbour watches how his most loved ones grow and he shapes their characters and manners like when Glass artist creates unbelievable and breathtaking shapes out of glass...You can do that only when the glass is hot and flexible...When it gets cold,you can only br eak the glass...The guy who have set materialistic goals and luxury seekers,one day they look at their children...Father and Mother and their Wife and they wonder"WHEN DID THEY GOT SO OLD and WHEN DID THEY GROWN UP SO FAST"???Im not saying that you should live like bum...Or not pay atention on the financial aspects...but theres a place and time for everything...People swallow ideas without chewing them and they go and rip out other's people's eyes for not sharing their own opinions...They go and fallow the"smell" of a new car,or whatever like a dog blindly fallowing the meet that you hold in youre hand...You can go wherever you want,it will fallow you...A cat will fallow you even if you wave with it in a bathtub:Dand you know how much cats hate water...I have done that and it reminded me of our selves...Health System go and ask for astronomic ammounts of money for heart or kidney transplantations as if there's not enough dead people...People doesnt care about children health...Their Motiv is the Profit...Less and Less people can allow them self the new cures and services of the modern Medicine...Yesterday some people came in my house and they made a presentation about some Kirby cleaning machine that worths 2300€ and the awerage monthly Macedonian salary is 130€...Can you believe this?I am polite and i have manners which they thought that they can exploat and they started to convince me that it's for my own health and for the health of my family and child...I said no in a diplomatic manner but they didnt stopped with their tactics...It doesnt takes much to piss me off which they did...I said to them"dont you preach to me about the health philosophy...As if you give damn abot me and my family health...Youre Pancreas is hurting you for me...Why dont you admit that yore only Motiv is the Profit and yore percentage per sold product...Enough with this cleaning bullshit...You think i will take a Bank Credit just to buy this ridiculous machine?I have other priorities damn it...And after that they started to ask me about my Wedding and the Photo album...Im sick of these idiots who are using health to realise their financial goals and to profit...Arent you ashamed of what we become???We are the Stone in Nature's Crown,but all we do is destroying and killing it's beauty...Its even worst than in the middle ages...At least then people didnt pretended that they care about everyone else...These days thers more hypocracy than Leptons...Im so desapointed from the HomoSapiens spicies,in which i belong...There's food,watter and pussy for everyone,only if we could find some other way to rebuild this society...The infrastructure of the humam civilization is money...and then with enough money to burn,youre a God...Are money the true way towards happines???Everyone will desagree,but yet money makes everyone happy in a devilish way...Everything is for money even the Religion that should newer touch a dime have builded an Empire by selling Hope to the Hopelles with a cheap propaganda since the beggining of our civilization,that become more and more sophisticated and subtle as human intelect evolved...As if John the Baptist have fixed a price for baptasing...In Macedonia the price for baptising and Wedding is hilarious...as if it's essential for my egsistance...I dont want to open a Relligious debate im sick even from the word religion,everyone can and should do what makes them happy..even the satanists...But when they sell empty words and songs for cash...then you have to ask youre self a few questiones...Religious leaders are extremely wealthy individuals...I see them...The Christian Orthadox leader has more houses and apartments than Donald Trump and as for the Muslim leader,he has a Travel Agency equiped with the most expensive Busses and his son has more cars than Michael Scumacher...Are they realy searching the Devine Essence,or all they want is to spend their lives as comfortable as possible and create even better life for their offspring:D...God placed them on those positiones so that they can make their bellies as big as a Summo wrestlers and float in Cholesterol,becouse they cant get enough of the most delicious foods and most expensive Wines and becouse their bellies grow bigger and bigger...The Education system is even worst...When that old dude Plato created his Academics,only the brightest and the most intellegent could go there...But now you have the Harvard,Oxword,Kembridge and a few other extremely expensive educative institutiones...Yes they give scholaship but thats not the point...If thats the case then let only the most intellegent to lurn there...We all know that a lot of people who lurn there have been selected becouse of their old papas who accumulated tons of riches in a very contraversial manner...Those will one day leave the expensive Universities and become the next Bush,the next Miloshevic,or the next Clinton who will rather ejaculate in to women mouths then to care about his "fellow citisen"and those with the scholarship will become robots with long hair and glasses...antisocial cases...fallowing the radars whether they've received Extraterastrial sygnals:D...Human Civilization is getting more and more synthetic...This World is a Hell of a place...Perhaps im lucky,becouse my life is comfortable...Something which in Macedonia is quite rare...Im not a rich dude...but i have enough to allow my self things that makes me happy...A friend who is a Juventino told me,after i teased him about his relegated team"it seems that youre life is comfortable enough,so that football is youre only concearn and occupation,not like me who is struggling for my egsistance"it's a bit offansive and its not entirely true...but what can you say???Theres corruption and money loundry even in those who are "selling"moral and ethics...Damn it it's all turning in to an Amateur Theatre...Now i know only a few will reply to this...I wont get mad about that,but this is my Prizma and i would be happy even if you only read this without replying...(i know that Giorgio will reply;) )...Our society It's like American Wrestling...Fake,manipulative and unintentionaly hilarious,which makes it even more ridiculous...No one is even trying to hide it's perverse intentiones...like in wrestling,at least in the past they were trying to make it as realistic as they could,although it was obvious:lol:now theres something on SportItalia channel and man it's like a bunch of Retards playing a Lambada...Just like everything in this World's Society...

[GiorgioII]

You sort of piled on the pressure there for me to reply didn't you?:lol:

I actually don't know what to say. Each of us leads a very blinkered existence. You are true that the wisest man is he who accepts his flaws and then lives his life without trying to mould himself into the form of the rest of the population. But all of us adapt ourselves to 'fit in.'

Each of us is so incredibely diverse from the next man or woman. But all of us try to change ourselves at least a little. It is fear that drives us to do so. Fear of being scrutinised or ignored. As much as we would all like to live a life in which material possessions are of no importance, the simple truth is eLcino that we all desire certain belongings. Without a tv or the internet I imagine you would be quite hacked off. Unable to watch your favourite sports team, unable to keep in contact with foreign friends. And to be able to afford such items you need to bring in an income or rely on a loved one to bring in an income.

The only thing we can do is take individual measures to ensure that the quality of life for others does improve. There is no use in world leaders attempting to improve life in third world countries with massive schemes to improve sanitation if the rest of us continue to use up resources at the rate we do.

[Sebastian]

You sort of piled on the pressure there for me to reply didn't you?:lol:

I actually don't know what to say. Each of us leads a very blinkered existence. You are true that the wisest man is he who accepts his flaws and then lives his life without trying to mould himself into the form of the rest of the population. But all of us adapt ourselves to 'fit in.'

Each of us is so incredibely diverse from the next man or woman. But all of us try to change ourselves at least a little. It is fear that drives us to do so. Fear of being scrutinised or ignored. As much as we would all like to live a life in which material possessions are of no importance, the simple truth is eLcino that we all desire certain belongings. Without a tv or the internet I imagine you would be quite hacked off. Unable to watch your favourite sports team, unable to keep in contact with foreign friends. And to be able to afford such items you need to bring in an income or rely on a loved one to bring in an income.

The only thing we can do is take individual measures to ensure that the quality of life for others does improve. There is no use in world leaders attempting to improve life in third world countries with massive schemes to improve sanitation if the rest of us continue to use up resources at the rate we do.

...preassure???...you always reply or create topics on some other matters than football...like the one with Da Vinci Code...that was the drive for me to say that....you know...i was uin a peculiar mood watching all that crap happening directed by those Bihind the Curtain dudes...and as for the belongings...Tv or Internet wasnt my point...it's the cruel profit that im talking about...belongings are unessential and trivial...it's the Ego that makes people to strive for belongings or materialistic stuff...you have a computer i dont...or i have a car you dont...that creates a false superious feeling...and gives you the reason to live becouse when you're down or feeling screwed you always find comfort that you have something material that someone doesnt....you know i wouldnt wrote this right now...perhaps it's nor the place nor the time for this...it's a discussion that should be discussed in personal...forget about it...perhaps if Maldini was here who is a graduated philosopher would've been delighted to discuss something like this...people doesnt want to hear and see stuff like this....it's easier to drink Coca Cola watch it's ridiculous comercials that makes me feel like an idiot every time a watch it...and there's Coca Cola comercial everywhere and listen to Snoop Doggy Dog"music":lol: eat some Mcdonlads and having fun watching how people cut their throats on some weird parts of the world....

[Panathinaikos2]

When that old dude Plato created his Academics,only the brightest and the most intellegent could go there...But now you have the Harvard,Oxword,Kembridge and a few other extremely expensive educative institutionesI agree with you 100 percent ;) Nice article.

[Panathinaikos2]

There are wars going around this world and just like the Yugoslavian war uneducated people from around the West go and take sides for no reason without even researching about the war. Such as some kids thinking NATO is cool when they really don't how much destruction they have done to Belgrade and how many people have died from NATO. Same thing with the Lebanease-Israeli conflict ;)

[())__Green__))>]

There are wars going around this world and just like the Yugoslavian war uneducated people from some parts of the world go and take sides for no reason without even researching about the war. Such as some kids thinking NATO is cool when they don't know how much destruction they have done to Belgrade and how many people died. Same thing with the Lebanease-Israeli conflict

dont forget bosnia war... most damage done there
most bloodiest war since world war 2

[Panathinaikos2]

dont forget bosnia war... most damage done there
most bloodiest war since world war 2Every part of Yugoslavia was destroyed in this war and many people died becuase of stupid descision making from all sides. No I didn't forget about Bosnia but alot people think NATO is cool yet they don't even know what kind of dastruction NATO has done.

[Panathinaikos2]

The big nations think of the rest of the world as low class doorsteps for them to step on them howevor many times they want :boo:

[Ero]

Every part of Yugoslavia was destroyed in this war and many people died becuase of stupid descision making from all sides. No I didn't forget about Bosnia but alot people think NATO is cool yet they don't even know what kind of damage NATO has done.

saying every part of yugoslavia was destroyed is a huge lie!

economically yes all of former yugslavia was destroyed but physically only 2 countries were!

[Panathinaikos2]

saying every part of yugoslavia was destroyed is a huge lie!

economically yes all of former yugslavia was destroyed but physically only 2 countries were!What about Slovenia and Serbia????

[Ero]

What about Slovenia and Serbia????

slovevnia was in a war for only a few days.... and Serbia was pretty much untouched until clinton bombed it in 1999 for their actions in kosovo

[Panathinaikos2]

sloevia was in a war for only a few days.... and Serbia was pretty much untouched until clinton bombed it in 1999 for their actions in kosovoThey still were badly damaged esppecially Serbia from the bombings.

[Ero]

They still were badly damaged esppecially Serbia from the bombings.

only a few buildings in belgrade were damaged that it's....

anyways i'm trying to stay away from balkan politics so i'm gonna leave this thread

sorry for making the thread off topic eLcino

[Panathinaikos2]

only a few buildings in belgrade were damaged that it's....Well as much as I disagree with your post i'm not going to talk about this anymore. I'm going to stay on topic now. Sorry eLcino for bringing this off topic.

[manfan1523]

Its social darwinism at its best. only the strong survive. its the way the world is and always will be.

[GiorgioII]

...preassure???...you always reply or create topics on some other matters than football...like the one with Da Vinci Code...that was the drive for me to say that....you know...i was uin a peculiar mood watching all that crap happening directed by those Bihind the Curtain dudes...and as for the belongings...Tv or Internet wasnt my point...it's the cruel profit that im talking about...belongings are unessential and trivial...it's the Ego that makes people to strive for belongings or materialistic stuff...you have a computer i dont...or i have a car you dont...that creates a false superious feeling...and gives you the reason to live becouse when you're down or feeling screwed you always find comfort that you have something material that someone doesnt....you know i wouldnt wrote this right now...perhaps it's nor the place nor the time for this...it's a discussion that should be discussed in personal...forget about it...perhaps if Maldini was here who is a graduated philosopher would've been delighted to discuss something like this...people doesnt want to hear and see stuff like this....it's easier to drink Coca Cola watch it's ridiculous comercials that makes me feel like an idiot every time a watch it...and there's Coca Cola comercial everywhere and listen to Snoop Doggy Dog"music":lol: eat some Mcdonlads and having fun watching how people cut their throats on some weird parts of the world....

I was only joking about the pressure thing:) .

Again, I see your point and fully understand it. But we still do the things that put money in the pockets of the powerful and morally inept. Perhaps it is the need for a feeling of social superiority. Or perhaps it is just the fact that the things they offer us are far too attractive. But coca cola and mcdonalds? We can all live without them:D . I dont eat Mcdonalds anymore. I will try and stop to drink coca cola as well now eLcino:) .

[Centarfor9]

sloevia was in a war for only a few days.... and Serbia was pretty much untouched until clinton bombed it in 1999 for their actions in kosovofew hours :lol:

I don't think human evolution is damaged by wars or rap music and such.

[Sebastian]

Its social darwinism at its best. only the strong survive. its the way the world is and always will be.

...i dont know wether you're aware of what you just said...that is Hitler's most lucid maxima...he thought that he was doing a favour...to the Jews,Slovens and other races who arent white:lol:...this is the most stupid thing i have seen...no offense...you're not aware what you've just said...as if some Animal said this...it's purely run by Instinct like Animals does...not refined in Our Engines of Creation-Consciousness and Reason...why there's people who goes down in a raging river and save some half alive Cat or whatever???why people are helping to animals...is that a Propaganda a camouflaged Egos????it's the World of of Animals what you're speaking of...our Concept of Reason is beyond that...infinitly higher than what you've said...that is becouse Humans still havent evolved in to higher level of intellectual awarenes...and it will take some time untill that happens...but still there's some people that can make the difference...you're statement is a proof that there's people with consciousness and instinct...no offense...
...and guys let us not create a political aura here...the subject is about matters that are higher than Politics...

[Sebastian]

few hours :lol:

I don't think human evolution is damaged by wars or rap music and such.

...ofcourse not...war is not a threat...evolution cant be distorted by a...let's say a Nuclear Hollocaust...or Bombs with a low percentage of Uranium or Plutonium...no way man...;)....

and as for Rap...i dont mind that...but it's a scientific fact that people who have made all of their inner ear fibers to reproduce the sound and they are about 10 000 i think...they dont listen to Rap...i have nothing against Rap...it's just a A Comercial thing that runs by the philosophy of MINIMUM TALENT,VOCAL PERFECTION and INTELLEGENCE-MAXIMUM PROFIT...:D...you see Snoop doesnt give a damn wether you like his"music"or not as long as the milions are rolling then you can say whatever you want...watching a Rap concert is the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen...they just go and talk like when my grandfather meets one of his friends in the Market...:lol:...but everyone has the right to listen whatever he wants...it's like a guitar...if youhave one string...you'll have to play on it...when you have six then it gets lot better...Rap music is that one string...

[Centarfor9]

...ofcourse not...war is not a threat...evolution cant be distorted by a...let's say a Nuclear Hollocaust...or Bombs with a low percentage of Uranium or Plutonium...no way man...;)....
this hasn't occurred to the extent that it damaged the evolution...and these events itself can sort of be called an "evolution"


and as for Rap...i dont mind that...but it's a scientific fact that people who have made all of their inner ear fibers to reproduce the sound and they are about 10 000 i think...they dont listen to Rap...i have nothing against Rap...it's just a A Comercial thing that runs by the philosophy of MINIMUM TALENT,VOCAL PERFECTION and INTELLEGENCE-MAXIMUM PROFIT...:D...you see Snoop doesnt give a damn wether you like his"music"or not as long as the milions are rolling then you can say whatever you want...watching a Rap concert is the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen...they just go and talk like when my grandfather meets one of his friends in the Market...:lol:...but everyone has the right to listen whatever he wants...it's like a guitar...if youhave one string...you'll have to play on it...when you have six then it gets lot better...Rap music is that one string...
irrelavant

[Sebastian]

this hasn't occurred to the extent that it damaged the evolution...and these events itself can sort of be called an "evolution"


irrelavant

...irrelevant???where are the arguments...every moron can say IRRELEVANT...the wight of the argument is the weapon of the Rational minds...and as for the first reply i dont wether to reply or go and watch my cat lick it self...the evolution needs time and it doesnt happen in a life time...you speak of it as it's an evloution of Marvel characters...the constant bombing destorts the climate and ife it self...you're not well infomed person as i can see...if you were well informed you would've knew the fact that every great power like America and Russia throws it's nuclear waste in their bombs the Plutonium which cant perform the proces of Fission and it's useless for the Nuclear Reactors...which is their main Fuel...what makes the greatest Impact on the Ozon layer or what is the cause for the Global warming that causes milions of deaths becouse of Skin Cancer???do yuo think that America will throw a Nuclear Bomb???...and what do you think Izrael is doing right now...am not accusing them of being the occupators or the agressors...they are all guilty of hatered they or Hezbolah...i dont want to speak about that i just want to use it as an example...they are throwing enriched Plutonium in Lebanon...becouse it has no purpose...do you think that it's any different from what i said before???is that not radioactive???Serbia is a "Storage"for Nuclear waste after the Nato's Bombarding...dont you know that???Unprofor soldiers have been diying from Leukemia and other malign diseases...if that's not obstructing the natural way of evolution...if Radiation cant change it's course than what can...:confused:...:lol:...

this hasnt occured to the extend that it damaged the evloution

the Nuclear energy has been discovered 50 years ago...can you imagine how litlle is that time interval when compared to the Milions of years of Evolution???...do you think that all this will disapear without concequences???that's pretty naive opinion dude...everything has it's price...

[Centarfor9]

...irrelevant???where are the arguments...every moron can say IRRELEVANT...the wight of the argument is the weapon of the Rational minds...and as for the first reply i dont wether to reply or go and watch my cat lick it self...the evolution needs time and it doesnt happen in a life time...you speak of it as it's an evloution of Marvel characters...the constant bombing destorts the climate and ife it self...you're not well infomed person as i can see...if you were well informed you would've knew the fact that every great power like America and Russia throws it's nuclear waste in their bombs the Plutonium which cant perform the proces of Fission and it's useless for the Nuclear Reactors...which is their main Fuel...what makes the greatest Impact on the Ozon layer or what is the cause for the Global warming that causes milions of deaths becouse of Skin Cancer???do yuo think that America will throw a Nuclear Bomb???...and what do you think Izrael is doing right now...am not accusing them of being the occupators or the agressors...they are all guilty of hatered they or Hezbolah...i dont want to speak about that i just want to use it as an example...they are throwing enriched Plutonium in Lebanon...becouse it has no purpose...do you think that it's any different from what i said before???is that not radioactive???Serbia is a "Storage"for Nuclear waste after the Nato's Bombarding...dont you know that???Unprofor soldiers have been diying from Leukemia and other malign diseases...if that's not obstructing the natural way of evolution...if Radiation cant change it's course than what can...:confused:...:lol:...

this hasnt occured to the extend that it damaged the evloution

the Nuclear energy has been discovered 50 years ago...can you imagine how litlle is that time interval when compared to the Milions of years of Evolution???...do you think that all this will disapear without concequences???that's pretty naive opinion dude...everything has it's price...
maybe all this nuclear waste has damaged life of people on earth but I don't think that it has damaged evolution on earth

in some parts like Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Chernobyl...maybe it has caused great death and rise in leukemia and cancers but so far it hasn't had global effect (maybe it did but we don't know it)

[Sebastian]

maybe all this nuclear waste has damaged life of people on earth but I don't think that it has damaged evolution on earth

maybe it did but we don't know it)

...under radiation even at a low intensity Human genes are mutating and the next generation will have severe deformations...with time it'll get extremely serious...evolution depends from the genes the DNK chromozomes and they get destorted by Radiation which destroys the Atomic and molecular construction...under these conditiones how can the evolution not be effected???

[devious]

Your subjects gives me the inclination to write too much elcino..

Evolution, Aliens, War or nations Elimination, mother earth anger that causes sometimes the redrawing of the map,.... countless names and expressions for what can be said as something different, a change in our routine life, we keep talking about those issues and we even take a side or an opposition against others who dont believe in those things, or dont support the idea of it or reject the chance of it all happening, maybe because they are afraid of the change that could turn their peaceful routine lives upside down, or maybe they just dont have much vision to imagine how things can go that way, in another way than what is really going on right now and another different way of how should things goes around.

I heared many times people talking zealously and bouncily about the human evolution!, I said to myself no doubt those people are so bored of this life, they are bored of how things is controlled by money? or maybe by how people`s cares is becoming so limited and silly, so simpleminded.. or they are sick of how people is simply accepting it and they never cross their minds that they can somehow wake up at the morning feeling that they want to change the mechanism of their life...well.. ok, let`s admit it.. money for like 98.86% of the people that live in our world are motivated by the financial needs, people needs money .. so this is the root of the problem, actually to make things clearer.. they only needs the things that money would brought, that`s why money is that important, money brings to you a balcony with an ocean view from a huge villa on a top of a mountain with a garage that is charged with 5 latest models of fabulous rides, a sexy good looking girl friend from a high class family that lives next door on the same mountain! oh money could get you the number one place in the society that you live in which gives you a relief that those people out there will always give you respect and will wash your shoes... well back to the subject.. it`s all about the money, so let`s get a light on those who controls our evolution.. the electronics.. the machines builders companies, Microsoft, Sony, Atary, Intel, Mercedes, CAT, sumsong.... all the companies that are controlling the secrets of the electronic industry, let me tell you a story.. my dad is a business man, he was invited in a big company in Japan that manufactures Honda cars in the year of 1999, he is a friend of the manufacture owner (Mrs Honda herself as my dad is good with women if you know what I mean ;)).. she showed him a room in the lower floor of the building.. they turned on the lights.. my father told me that those guys was already preparing the 2002,2003 and 2004 model cars of Honda in their garages!! those guys are already know the future, and we are like the experiment rates, we are trapped inside this world cage, we are so much away from what`s happening in the real world out there, and those electronic companies that controls all the secrets of technology are controlling this world, all the play cards are in their hands, they can move on to another Era of another digital or wireless technology or they can keep us stand still using the manual stuff as we think it`s the latest technology that the humanity has discovered! can you get this image now? Sony playstation has launched their playstation one video game and they have already mad ethe playstaion 2 and they were prapering the final touches of the playstation 3 project!... Nasa! they sent another rocket to the moon while they were building another to be sent to Mars! what else they are preparing right now? in our hands cellphones that in a size of the hand and others in a size of 2 fingers, when they were released Japanese companies were already having a project that is ready to be released anytime, a small ears mic cellphone!now take a look around, see what is the latest technology release so far that has really impressed you, and be too sure that whoever released and created it has already have in his manufacture garage a much more impressive technology, that is preparing to launch after 2-3 years from now, this is how it goes around, it`s all for money, we invented this technology and we should be cooperating to improve to get to something bigger and more important, but instead they took this technology and separated it on each-other, they are trading it, and we are the poor experiment rates has no other choice but to obey and to follow their rules, our governments allowing it cause they are getting millions of it too!.. remember? it`s all about money, that thing that has already controlled our fates and destinies, it paralyzes our evolution and it can move it slowly or alittle faster in any time it wants!.. and we are following the rules so we will be a part of the system, you can count yourself in every aspects in your life how you are being fooled and you`ll laugh yourself out! hilarious!! and we are accepting it, Im accepting it cause I deserve it, we all deserve it, let us be cute sweet peaceful experiment rates, shall we?

We try to run away from this painful full of harshness reality, we start to read something that tells you that you dont live alone in this world, it`s getting so excited when you start read by dates that they have already came to earth, they visited us, they even married our women and they had babies, they are green and sometimes blue.. no white or black.. they have something else, It`s not that science that we know, or this technology that we can recognize, they just have something else and they are so wise enough (in my personal opinion) not to be in contact with us, cause if they did we would take advantages, we will start to learn form them and by this we will have more abilities and will be quicker destroying our selves and to destroy this beautiful planet we live in, they dont want to be our friends and they dont have to be our enemies, cause comparing to them, we are useless comic creatures, or like the theory of the great Egyption writer Anees Mansour, if you took a time machine and went back in time to the stone ages and you took with you your jeep grand Cherokee and lots of equipments and weapons, and then you met those primitive people of this age, you could be considered as a God for them.. this is simply what could happen with no doubt.. this is exactly us with those what we call Aliens, aliens cause they are so different from us in all aspects, ALL ASPECTS.. they dont think like us, simply their minds doesnt work like us, so it`s really out of argument. also what`s out of argument if they are exist or not, they are lie it or not, if you said that they arnt.. so you`ll be considered as a nice cute peaceful experiment rate.. or I mean.. you just didnt read and surf the internet hard enough and long enough, or you didnt meet or see people that you can see in their eyes that they arnt (by all means) lying, or dont have to lie saying that they saw, meet, felt the intruders. you know what I mean little experiment rate? I guess not.

This life is a circle, the earth, the life cycle of all the creatures of planet, our lives starting with the day and ending with the night cause the sun and moon are like us, they are cirlces and running in circles, just like us, so everything is going around and around, it starts then ends then starts again.. this is how God wanted this universe to be like for some secret that he only knows about... it`s not in triangles, it`s not in squares and if it was like this in somehow, then maybe then life could have been so different, and you can imagine, or I guess you cant.. the pyramids, those huge buildings that made all the scientists gone crazy or died, they came to Egypt to make expermints on it and they eneded up with no clue, why it`s a pyramid and not another normal shaped building like anyother? why it`s been built in the first place? why it`s only door is heading to a specific starrs system in the sky? why many other things that you should read about the secrets of this pyramid in any site.. my point that I want to highlight is we know nothing, almost nothing about this life, and we think we have made so much a big deal of what we discovered of some silly cold laws in science! I think we should just search deeper than this, we should start open our eyes wider and look to the other aspects in life that we ignore and we rest our minds claiming that it`s super natural, it`s out of our laws that we know, it cant be accepted, just like since 150 years when some people said that someday the man will be able to fly in groups on a big huge carpet, those words back then were considered as words of insane cause there is no way by al means that man can fly on a carpet, it`s only a before sleeping kids stories,.. Prophet Muhammed has given from God some visions of the future.. he stated that Iron is going to speak, he said that people will live in huge houses and still those people are wearing topless and almost naked while they have much money (back then in the time of prophet the ones who have money are the ones who wear too much expensive clothes.. that`s how things used to be).. he described many things that God has given a vision of, he described it by his way of understanding, as a man who lived before 1500 years, and now we can see that what Prophet Muhammed has said all truth.. we can see the TVs and Telephones that can be simply described as iron talking (from a man who lived in the past) and we can see girls and men in bikinies who have much money in banks and they live in the skyscrapers! there are many other said by the prophet of the last message of God to the humanity, and he only said the truth, and I believe as every Muslim by honesty he has delivered the message and for us to understand and realize, and try to live depending and relying on it...

So back to the carpet subject, they discovered in many places undergrounds, inside caves and under the deep blue oceans and sees that there were civilizations before, 20.000 years ago, civilizations that knew about the atomic bomb, the planes and rockets, the jeans and hats, the TVs and radio!, the cars and trains!,.. the latest old carved signs that has been discovered was in the Tibet heights in Himalaya mountains, and in Peru and Nevada desert in the US. the theory of Mr Anees Mansour that human has already lived this life that we are already living and that this human has distroyed himself by his pair hand.. it`s is the same destiny that we are all waiting for..

arnt we?

[Sebastian]

...i was waiting for you and Zek to return from wherever you were to discuss this Subject seriously...i see that you have replyed quite vividly...i dont have enough time to reply Atomicly at the moment...but wery soon i will...

[devious]

Take your time mate.. no worries. :)

(p.s. sorry for the too much spelling mistakes.. I just write too fast yo u
know)

[Sebastian]

Take your time mate.. no worries. :)

(p.s. sorry for the too much spelling mistakes.. I just write too fast yo u
know)

...those spelling mistakes are more valuable than you think....they guarantee that you have wrote that by you're self and not copied that from somewhere else...:evil:...

[devious]

...those spelling mistakes are more valuable than you think....they guarantee that you have wrote that by you're self and not copied that from somewhere else...:evil:...

hahaha.. that`s a good logic! well.. there are some grammer mistakes too, what do you think of that? :D

[devious]

http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showthread.php?p=714519#post714519

read this if you have time... just felt like wana write somethings.. I dont know what the hell with me? I just wana write and write.. :(

[devious]

Ive watched this new clip for Korn my fav band and I remembered this thread! :D.. Yor are gona like it Elcino!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VntFEWF8I8A

[Fenerliyim]

y inter fans dont know how to use the enter button is beyond me

[devious]

What enter bottom?








you mean this bottom?? :rolleyes:

[Sebastian]

Ive watched this new clip for Korn my fav band and I remembered this thread! :D.. Yor are gona like it Elcino!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VntFEWF8I8A

Wow...I completely forgotten this thread...Completely.
I didnt knew that Korn is your favorite band...They have one of the greatest guitar players and the vocalist is extremely charismatic...Definitely my style of music...

The video just makes my night...Or day or probably my whole month....

I N C R E D I B L E

One of the best videos i have ever seen...As if Korn read my thread :D...
I laughed my ass off with that guy with 5 children...Not because of his kids,but because how they looked like with his wife compared with the ones with the brief case and 1,5 kid...

[Sebastian]

What Enter button damn it...:D...:lol:...

[devious]

Wow...I completely forgotten this thread...Completely.
I didnt knew that Korn is your favorite band...They have one of the greatest guitar players and the vocalist is extremely charismatic...Definitely my style of music...

The video just makes my night...Or day or probably my whole month....

I N C R E D I B L E

One of the best videos i have ever seen...As if Korn read my thread :D...
I laughed my ass off with that guy with 5 children...Not because of his kids,but because how they looked like with his wife compared with the ones with the brief case and 1,5 kid...

hahahaha!!! :lol: :lol: coooool That`s how geniuses have things incommon man.. Inter-Recoba-KORN!!! I watch this freaken Viedeo every damn night!!!! JUST AWSOME!
I love all Korn`s work! they are incredibly deep and hilarious in the same time!!
Did you watch this clip too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v4iT-MoVVs

[Sebastian]

Human I Q is decreasing and i have seen that somewhere else,but this exact diagram was just incredible...I just love that shit man...Awesome...I "bluetoothed" it on my mobile...
The song is exquisite and the video is just..............................
Why is it that they all make Bush like a Myth figure and almost as Zeus in the American media????? :Pound:...:lol: :cry: :lol:...

[SiN]

This is one of the most interesting threads i have read in my time on SFN, and i very much enjoyed every post of it. I like the topics you bring up eLcino and how you spend your time constructing your phrases and also how you do not forget to reply back to the other member and state the relevant facts of your argument. Truly great work of art. Your a very smart, logical and down to earth guy ;)

Devious and Zek same goes to you guys, i take my hat off and smile to your replies and points you give, i am amazed by the way that you 3 or 4 close members respect each others opinions and also discuss with each other what your flaws are. Incredible!

Keep up the great work fellas!

[Sebastian]

What can i say.......

[devious]

Im just gona say it like a chick does: "eeeewwww!! Sin, this is so sweeeeet!! :D ":lol:
Thanks Sin, we have been privileged by your comment there mate ;)

But what can you say! maybe the Interista always have this sense of intellegence and others respect incomon, dont forget about Ryan, Giorgio, Blacknblue.. and all of the other members that we unfortunatly rarely see those days.

[Sebastian]

The beginning of the 2006 when this thread was conceived...Man 2006 was a cool year...I miss it...
Watching old treads makes me slide and surf through vivid memories...

I watched the Star Trek movie when they got back in time and visited to the creator of the Warp drive i think...
This lady asked Jean Luke Picard when he took her on board"this must cost a fortune".He replied"We do not use financial currencies or anything of that type...No money.We just strive for excellence and for the common good of our civilization...There are hardly any diseases and there is no poverty...".
I always mention this,as it is extremely important for our evolution ladder...It is not a coincidence that we have been treated like bllionares and our brain is been served with "breakfast in bed"all the time...
How many people calculate by them selves???They have their mobile phones and without even realizing how this "intellectual atrophy"might reflect on our evolution,we still ignore what made us what we are today in the first place...
Only few people are bearing this civilization on their shoulders...The rest are like TV Sets,swallowing ideas and concepts without chewing them...
I can only imagine what we could achieve if we could all strive for intellectual excellence and constantly develop and increase our concept of reason.
The thing is that people emphesise the idea of Happiness in their lives...The whole idea of happiness is presented and shaped by none other then the media.Role models of how happy people behave and act,why are they happy,how are they experiencing their happiness,extremely stereotipical and booring stuff if you ask me...
The one who satisfy him self with little isnt wise,but he is definitely more happy then the wise one...
I mean just go and work,eat...spank some ass and tits and sleep...That makes me happy too,but it isnt really happiness,cos these are all essential attributes from which my existence depends and if they arent satisfied i can not preserve my personality,nor my life...
We have been deceived to be satisfied with a whole bunch of toys,like a retards...With very little actually.
Even little children have ambitions,while this happens but rarely to grown up people...
It is the main cause of our I Q decrease and as people "doesnt" really need anything else then their Car,Pool,Slut and Castle they do not ask for more...These are the things that every human life strives for..That's why we are beginning to look like a bunch of monkeys...
It is not ambitious to strive for material wealth that doesnt really have a substantial meaning in our lives...We try so hard to protect the stranger in our self,our alter ego,that we despise our own self shattered across the dead ends of our mind...Sitting there with it's clothes riped off,scared,isolated and tired...
We excommunicate our own selves convinced that the stranger in us will guarantee safety,happiness and long and healthy life,until we die...That's a bit ridiculous,cos even the 90 year old man isnt tired of life.Beside the fact that this looks like forever to us,it is just a moment ago for him..It will be the same for any of us if we get to live that long...
My grandfather has 87 years and i ask him,do you think it was enough???He started to cry,how will he leave my family.He is extremely healthy but the inevitable awaits and it is right behind the corner,for every one of us...I mean the young man lives in his future,but the old man dwells in his past for the rest of his days...No one really concerns him self with the actual reality...
There's the end of days that we have and will experience,The salvation will come,we have lived the best,the worst is coming...No one gives a shit that our lives past right in front of our eyes...
Such trivialities and pointlessly spent lives for nothing...For no greater meaning...Just like animals.The worst thing in this is that those who supposedly claim that have the salvation for this are the ones who doesnt even grasp the reality in which they use their toilet paper.
We waste our whole lives for something that makes them even more fragile then they already are,instead of seeking the real plethora of problems who has never been more...
It is pretty inconceivable that instead of all humanity focusing on the diseases that are really devastating,it is more important that we spend more money that Africa can ever spend on sonda's that will rot on Mars...
It is not the science who are doing this,it is those five neurons and three and a half glial cells people who "lead"their countries...
If we all work on our real problems there will be no need of money as our goal will be increasing our consciousness and personalities.All of the insignificant issues in our lives will be stripped of their meaning and there is no doubt that every possible problem will be solved.
Now the principles of the Universe doesnt depend from our wishes,but if we can not solve them we can go around them as there is a solution for every problem.The Speed of Light,the Antimatter concepts,the Anti Gravity and the Warp theories can really wait untill we solve our life threatening issues...This will unlock the secrets of evolution,like we only dream of...
But the matters that are strucking fear in us every time we hear them,like Cancer,Aids,Heart disease,there will be new diseases of course,all of these can be solved if we really focus all of our intellect and energy.
Some are more and some are less intelligent,but the unity is what makes all of them work like a single engine...The Air Buss A 380 is like watching the State of Texas in the air,flying...What makes this possible is that all of the engines who release incredible amount of thrust and energy,are actually individual designs and although identical they have certain independence from one another...But they all work together in an incredible harmony and efficiency that is now carrying practically a dream...
If something that ridiculous can go around the world,which was something that no one even dreamed before this era,then how is it that we are perpetually seeking cures for the same old diseases that threatens to desecrate and devour our own off spring???
Viruses mutate,but the heart disease and the Cancer take more lives then anything else...There has been a brekthrough in these aspects,but it is too little,as we are inflicting these wounds on our selves...100% efficiency is really possible.
There have been too many conspiracy theories about the Aids cure,that has been found,but there's no way that this would go without any evidence,as there is no way to hide something from the media for that long...There has been a lot a revolution on this subject,although it is still a premature death sentence...
Isnt it a damn shame that you cant even spank a beautiful babe without wearing an umbrella
on your cucumber???Man i hate that crap...I just hate it...
In time this will get even more serious then it already is...And there's the Cancer and the Heart diseases,with which we are struggling for an eternity...It is even more ironic that our pets now are getting sick of cancer...We are so ridiculous that we "program"even our pets to die from terrible diseases...
We are really not doing our homework...Instead of working on this there's Engineers who are solving mathematical problems of hypothetical objects,who arent even existing,while their wives are dying from breast cancer...
We are an ironic society indeed...
Every country should give most of it's budgets on Medical examinations,Genetic reconstruction and Nanotechnology...This is all connected and it will solve many of today absurd diseases(Those engineers work can be lot more practical and although hypothetical and theoretical reasoning is extremely useful,it can wait a bit until we make our civilization healthy and bursting with life again,as if it was healthy once :rolleyes: ).
What is the point of going on Mars when life here is getting unbearable???Even at peace we are fighting with things that we obviously cant defeat for the time being and still we are wasting our energy and resources like in a Age of Almighty strategy video game(for soldiers and gods)...
We should've been lot more consciouss by now...As the Korn video presented we are still living by our instincts,although nothing is stopping us from donating one euro for a Leukemia pacient(who wont really get those donated money anyway,so it makes no difference really).
Our future doesnt seem that bright...What is the meaning of a new cure when only the rich fellows keep it in their freezers,just in case,while those who are suffering are dying like bugs...
Even if there is a medicine that can prolong the life span,this will only be accessible to the most wealthiest humans and still the most important problem remains...Will this society ever release it self from the chain that we brought to our selves???
As if it is some essential substance like the watter and as if we can not survive without it...It has become a suggestive essence,like the placebo effect and it isnt really necessary for our survival,but that's reality....Money baby,Money...
People are freezing them selvs with that Crionica bull shit science so that they can be put in hybernation,so that they can be restored in some distant future...Isnt that ridiculous???You know i would rather donate my organs willingly,then hope for some distant future when i will be alive again,without any vital organ what so ever in my body,who will of course be sold right after i die on some black market...How can anyone imagine that they will keep him in a freezer like he once were,when there's a market for human organs and it is perhaps one of the most lucrative out there???
I mean that's just hilarious...What these people doesnt realize is that they are being duped by almost a religious"science"...The hybernation process is a phenomenon,but it is not like a Computer System back up...C'mon.I do not exclude the possibility of this,but even if this is possible,they will be non functional as their organs will be long eaten by worms...

There is a false sensation of happiness,distorted minds,crippled society...It is unbelievable...
How can i be happy with a new car or a new mobile,when i know that i might be poisoned by some"quality and natural"dietary product,which can easily cause cancer???No one really gives a damn if i die or not,i will die either way,so even if they are a cause of my premature death...they dont give a shit...I have no freakin laboratory in my closet damn it...I cant analyze it,although i want to...
What can you expect,there's a legal industry that is poisoning people and it is no secret,they even place pictures on the ciggar packs with cancer and lungs under the effect of nicotine:confused: :confused: :confused:...
A substitute for Watter,that ruins millions of lives and families annually...As if this isnt enough ,so i should feel safe around these corporational nut cases???I am freaking terrified :D...You have people selling pure and refined poison to them selves and you expect me to believe those Freaking Coca Cola comercials???Does that idiot thinks that he can convince me to drink that by simply transmmiting videos of some ridiculous fantasy world of how some coca cola bottle experiences and goes through right before some pecker wood idiot pulls it out of the Coca Cola machine????
Feeding our children with refined sugars that can not be found anywhere in nature and we expect to have a healthy nation???How can we hope on a better evolution,when we doesnt even need one...What we need is a Revolution,not evolution...We are so bad,so miserable and so pathetic(beside our knowledge which makes it even worst)that only a revolution can set things on the right path...Nope i aint referring to Religion...What ever sets this world on it's feet wont be religion,definitely :D...If we were complete retards and instead of speaking we hit each other,the fine,but we know how to manipulate the buildings blocks of life damn it,the substance of the Universe,we have seen the distant nebula's,we know what was that burning bush that Moses "spoke" with :lol: and why it actualy does burn it self...
There's so much knowledge and we still jerk off on Jenna???(and i am glad that we arent doing that on Peter North,well most of us,or am i wrong???).

[devious]

The picture you draw of how the humanity should be, reminds me of the ideal city of Socrates, the man assumed that Individuals can work togther and live togther like one, he set some rules which he thought that it can help to make the system of his ideal city to be as perfect as possible.

According to Plato " Socrates broke down the perfect city into three parts; each part is tied to a specific virtue that he believes will help define justice. The three virtues are wisdom, courage, and moderation. Wisdom is the whole knowledge, which describes the rulers of the city. The rulers should be the ones who incorporate philosophy and ruling together to rule the city wisely. Courage describes the guardians, who's job was to defend the city from invasion and take new lands for the city. The third virtue of the ideal city was moderation which is the concept of self-control and knowing ones role, also the concept of "one man, one job".

I think this is a one great idea, but Im afraid that it is just impossible to be done on earth.

Socrates has put these rules assuming that the human nature could be controled. he imagined that man can be chained to some rules and laws like a machine.

Maybe it`s true that evey human being was born with some natural talants that can set his rule in the society, I totaly believe that, but what is not possible that every Human being will have a that natural talants or specific special powers that necessary will serve his socity.

This is how ppl are separated between only 2 kind of individuals.. in simple words.. they are good or bad, according to thier nature, thier basic instinct that they have been born with.

Socrates was mistaken when he really ignored the fact that there will never come a day which you can click on a bottom to change someone`s natural instinct in a way to help building such imaginary society!

There is a balance in every part and in every corner in the universe, from the smallest beings to the most enourmous ones, it`s something that`s known to everyone.. but no one thought a balance for what or between what?.. the word balance means in general that there are 2 or more than 2 different powers that have an effect on the subject.. if one power at some point for any reason had increased its affection on the subject, that would cause an unbalanced situation.. but the operation doesnt stop.. as
according to God`s words in the Quran..This unbalanced situation will natuarlly cause an interfernce a third party, this third party`s job is to set things back to natural.. to make it balanced again.

Socrates assumed that we can be that third party, that we can control the situation and that we can succeed to hold the balance and that we can make use of that to produce a whole essence that only serves the idea of perfection.

Like a human body, every part of it works in some harmony to mantain, protect and moderate that body..
Or like Bees or ants` societies.

And here comes the conflict..
Cause the body`s main objective is to survive.
The bees or ants objective is to survive.
But the socrates ideal city`s objective is.. is to be ideal, is to be perfect.
Imperfect individuals cant come togther in one city to complete each other to be perfect specially when you can not be so sure if that is the main obective of every individual alone! and Socrates has totally ignored evey individual`s motivations and his own nature, who are those individuals? they are humans! and not machines.

How can you imagine that we can make a perfect society by humans when every human is a all world alone!?

I got to that thougth 1 year back when I was watching some animal planet show.. I thought deeply what could be the main and basic different between animal and man.

Do you know that Man is the only living being on earth that really has double Identities? or I would say man is a compination of 2 pieces.




1- The human known animal instinct.
2- The human`s unknown spiritual essence. (which some calls it the God`s given soal, other call it the conscience, some saw it as the six sence.. and there are other names and meaning for it).

Those two IDs are the the roots of every problem on this earth, can you imagin? :)

Let me explain..

1- The first part which belongs to this earth`s nature.

It goes back to how life began on earth, when the compination of dust and water produced the first bing on earth :PLANTS. and the era which bacteria and other microscopic bings were inhabitit the earth, and then somehow and through millions and millions of years.. a single cell of a being was driving by nature to multiple into many cells.. and by other millions of years these compenation of cells started a new way of surviving.. and it is the specialism, evey group of cells had to do some specific job according to the nature surruondings to adapt with it...
By other millions and millions and millions of years.. we found that those compination of cells have created the primitive species of live that we knew as the dinousoures.
The when the era of dinasourse ended according to the failure of taking of concept that the bigger size the cells would inhabit with in, the bigger of chances of survival, which means that dinosourse couldnt survive becausde of thier huge sizes that couldnt help them to adapt with the changing surroundings in nature.

It was the end of the first era of the cell`s self-evolute but a new begining of life for a more advance beings with alot of survival weapons and a better and stronger much smaller bodies that could hold on against the nature craziness.

Humans belong to this evoluted nature on the planet earth according to the Darwin and some hidden meanings in the book of God which I read and showed some of them on other thread in the forum long time ago I believe.

Human`s animalitic part (as I would call) which with no doubt belongs to earth, it`s a part of earth from the very begining of existance, humans did not come from another galaxy. this is a fact. (..for now)

Now comes here the interesting main point of what I discovered:

And as I explained previously about "the perfect balance" fact in universe, and as we all know that planet earth is a part of this one universe, so life on planet earth is related to "the balance" idea.

---> so Naturaly, If humans were only belong to planet earth alone, meaning if Humans only have an animal instinct part.. which I mean in other words.. If man was pure animalitic biengs, which would make them just like any other animal who inhabited this earth and survived so far.

So there shouldnt have been unbalance critical situation on earth!

If we are pure animals, and we belong to earth, even with our sharp brains! there should be no errors! cause this would mean that we are as a one part of this earth should work in harmony with every other part.

Planet`s all work togther with the planet system as it is a one part of it and has a specific job that have been created for in the first place.
Animals all work in harmouny to keep a balance.. prederators hunt because of hunger only, if you gave a cow (alive) to a satisfied not hungry lion he wouldnt even think of biting it! which I would say now, if there were no humans.. planet earth would have been more balanced!.. or shuld I say just completly balanced... just in NATURAL BALANCE.


What we can make conclusion from that?
We can understand now that the animal instinct isnt the only compination of the human nature!!! there is another outsider!

Your body wont feel any sick if there is no outsider to enter it and play with it`s perfect system and make an unbalanced situation.. all kind of diseases are being known because of only this one fact.. that there is an OUTSIDER!

Yes.. Humans are cells like anyother cells that the earth conatins off (if we looked to earth as a one body, that is really separated and iclated from any other bieng in space).. so humans as cells.. unfortunatly have controlled by something else not NATURE.. I would call it like cancered cells!!

This something else is..




2- The human`s unknown spiritual essence.[/B] (which some calls it the God`s given soal, other call it the conscience, some saw it as the six sence.. and there are other names and meaning for it). :)

And that other part we only know few about.. Great ppl like Muhamed the prophet, Jesus Christe, Moses that elcino is making fun of!..even Socrates tried too.. those who tried too hard to teach us how to be in touch with this part, although we will never really sense it and touch it like our body or our instictial needs that made us at some point of total ignorant think that we only do contain of this one part, which we thought they we are just animals, and we are just alittle smarter - animals!! that`s the all case! huh! and we have ignored all the other aspects of the case.


I just proved by reason that it does exist... though it would take a sharp brain to realize and contain.

But most of all :rolleyes:.. it needs a non arrogante person too.. cause this could naturaly make a conclusion that there is a higher power and a spiritual essence that is beyond our limited laws and "balanced" universe, that can make it unbalanced.. which would make us realize that there is a third party that will maintain the error and give an affection to the situation to be back on balance again.. that "something" is beyond our touched world and the world of spirit.. this third party is simply GOD.

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What makes this post related to the subject?

That Human can not interfer to control the evolution.. it happened naturaly, and it was controled by rules that we are not aware of or even can understand.. how many of us know why we are alive or why do we exist? isnt that the question every individual would ask when he was a child?

This question means in general why did it started and why us? why ME? why you? why it should be like this? and by the rules of whom?

There will be always a conflict between our both IDs or the two parts that we are contains of.. No one can control it... no one but.. .. damn!
But a man who knows the truth!!... that`s it!!!!
and I believe that Muhammed knew the truth!..
Amazingly, that the basics of Islam (as I know) is to try to get rid of the primitive animalitic needs... no not littraly to get rid, I mean that to try not to make our main objectives that we satisfy and fill our animalistic needs as to be our basic and majour objetive in life!!!.. Muhammed and Quran always refered to the fact that there is a higher objectives that if we understood and tried to realize, we will be reaching much higher degrees and we will be knowing more about this life!

People who steal or kill for money, are drivin overwhlmingly by thier stupid nature of hunger and greed! ppl who do the raping and having sex with every female they meet only drivin by thier sex organisms... they do not have the intellegence to realize that those needs are not and should not be the major and basic objectives, those should be secondry! those ppl are just like rabbits and snakes nothing more.

The fact is.. that a Man that wants nothing.. is invincible!

What if you are someone who cant eat for a week and never complain! what if you are a man that cant be drivin blindly by your sex organism, and that you are the one to decide when and not other one to make you.. you know. :D
How to reach this degree? which means that you control your natural needs, and that you managed to put them as secondry needs.... what would be the major primary objectives that will make you dispensed from your primitive needs?

I think it`s getting touch with your spiritual side.

Religion those days cant make normal ppl do that, or understand that.. such a shame.

Mayabe we will just have to give up and to keep in touch with our animalitic part and forget about the main reason we are really here.

And we can do that by telling that ther eis no physical prove that spirit does exist ( :lol: )... so there is no God, and so all religions are false.

It`s easy to live like a rabbit than to live like a human being.. and here my friend where the human evolution Is getting destorted. :smoking:

[Sebastian]

But most of all .. it needs a non arrogante person too..

Hmmm....Arrogance????

I just proved by reason that it does exist... though it would take a sharp brain to realize and contain.

You flatter your self while you dont even realize how contradictive your whole post is...

Religion those days cant make normal ppl do that, or understand that.. such a shame.

It all comes to this...
Instead of reading sections of what "Socrates thought",who was only a character there,perhaps reading the whole composition would've been wiser.
One can clearly presume that you havent even read the Plato's Republic...You constantly refer"Socrates thought this Socrates thought that"...It was actually Plato who though that not Socrates...
To criticize a Master piece like Plato's republic without even having read the real thing is more or less arrogant...
Although everyone can go and find the most interesting sections of the book,it is a different thing when it is integrally absorbed while reading it the whole thing...I have read that in 1999,it was a long time ago but i still recall my sentiments when i was reading the book...
There's one part "According to Plato"that indicates something but it is obvious that this is a quote of someone else,not that i find it wrong,being that.(one can tell by the underlines).Nothing against that.
I think this is a one great idea, but Im afraid that it is just impossible to be done on earth.
No it isnt a great idea...It is definitely not one of the greatest ideas that hit man kind.
I suspected that you dont really understand what Plato insinuates,but when i've read this i was certain that you dont really understand his "Master Race"or "One Layer"paradigm.

Devious,before you go and attempt to discredit philosophy,keep in mind that you are not doing a good job.
Only one who read that whole thing can look for materials of what Plato really thought...
Plato's Republic can be viewed from a different perspective,you go and pertain how Socrates:
Socrates has put these rules assuming that the human nature could be controled. he imagined that man can be chained to some rules and laws like a machine.
Before you said that you thought that this is actually a great idea...You know people polemise and debate,whether there's something Fascist in that "perfect"Republic or not...If you've read that,but you didnt,you could've imagine why i personally think that this is actually a bad idea...
And the thing that you vigorously deny,that the human nature cant be controlled and that the man can not be chained like a machine is happening at this moment.
Arent people already been controlled and chained???Start from your self...People go to work like robots and after they return they go and "fill their batteries" and then it is the same old thing.Like a clip in the engine...
The only period where you can be truly loyal to your self is when you sleep.It is the only time interval where you pay 100% attention to your self.The rest is just cheap hypocrisy and self sacrifice...
The rules and laws that chained this real society do exist...
they make books for little children in Russia,where they make a role model of Putin...Putin is a smart fellow,but the man is undeniably not a flower and he is the last person from which a nation should learn.
The problem is that people think that they make their own decisions and they are in charge for their lives...
You just make your self look stupid and allow to the real idiot to think that he is in charge,but the guy cant even tie his shoelaces.
In my opinion Plato's republic in practic is much worse then this...Someone who doesnt qualify him self as the Philosopher-king(although was a philosopher,but not as he imagined him self)under the principles he defined him self,will hardly be any better then a dictator...
But to claim that people arent like machines and fallow strict and even ridiculous rules and principles today is outrageous and even naive...
You fr'instance fallow a pattern defined from someone else...
You are "programed" to pray and do all those things that the law you accepted defined,long time ago...
You would never do such things if there wasnt any law or principles of that.
You do it by your own will,but that makes it even worst...
You think that it is your choice,but the spiritual idol which religion craves for is too seductive to deny,we at least for most of us...
You your self are a part of a "motorisation",as i am in another aspect.

I wonder why do i waste my time with football...I have nothing to gain,mentally nor intellectually...But i still bother with that and it is hard to let it go...Why???You tell me why.
I am not comparing Religion with football if that's what you think,but merely pointing the chains of our misery that we can be lot better without.
It sounds idealistic but it isnt really...
Personally i leach my self from all the addictive substances and propaganda the best i can.I hardly watch TV only when there's football(this belongs to that propaganda,but i am learning),i havent watched a movie for i dont know how long and when i can leave this way,everyone can.
We are individuals,we have different faces and personalities,but to defy the society's chains of misery is something that everyone can accomplish.
This was my point.Not the create the Utopia,but defy the system,like people are defying our good old Bill with his Vista bull shit and this whole Windows thing...
I am studying Informatics and it isnt a good idea to throw my Windows as it is implemented in the studies in it's core,but after i am done with that,i will never put this crap on my PC...
To be conscious of the things that is controlling and ruining our lives...That isnt much of Idealism.Not that the Windows is ruining my life,but the other much worst things that we take for granted and we perceive them as harmless...

People laugh at bunch of shadows dancing on the wall,a reflection of reality...
It would've been nice if you've read the Allegory of the Cave,since it already indicates how smart Plato was when Propaganda was concerned...
His ambition was to create a society,where he would present his social restrictions and criteria of the Guardians,auxiliaries and the "hamburger"layer...
His"silver arm band"carriers,the second layer of his perfect society supposed to be isolated from everything and only do their defensive tasks and guard the Republic(no family nothing,they are all one big family).
They had lot in common with the Golden"guardians",since they had the same training,but these were pushed in another direction then the Golden layer.
The "Golden layer"were the most intelligent(the Philosopher King decided that) only the smartest,by his judgment were allowed to become the "cream"of his "Dream state".To waste their lives for his ideals and on the age of fifty they would get what they were trained for...
And the Bronze well you know,the hot dog merchants,who paradoxically could accumulate everything that the today man can and wants....
Socrates could never be nor qualify for any of these layers,as if you knew how Socrates was,he would never restrict him self from tirelessly criticizing this whole concept.
There would hardly be any room for Dialectics,Socrates favorite "past time"activity,since you can not question the "perfect logic"that the imperfect Philosopher King defined in the first place...
Who gave the right to Plato,to be the "Golden-Soul"???No one...Just as none gave the right to any dictator,who also spoke about Moral and Ethics before he became the absolute authority in his country,convinced that he is good and he is doing the right thing...
They take it by them selves...Plato couldnt and thats why when he went in Syricusa he was sold by Dyonisis,cos no one really wants to be lectured that only a God is able to deal with the ultimate power of a this kind of state.
Something similar to Vatikan and the Pope,who is a "representative"and caries the "word of God"...
Why he drives in a bullet proof car???Why dont he let his faith to stop the bullets???

In his arrogance he tried to design this reality but he was sold as a slave and he got his ass kicked(his was about to be assasinated but)...He was then ransomed and got his head on his big shoulders.
There's a lot of stuff there where he intends to mask his attempt of totalitarian social order(beside those "democratic"goodies)where the Philosopher King(him)rules...
Someone who is Plato's fan(i like him quite a bit,but as Aristotle latter criticized his Idealism,i cant agree with everything Plato presented,no way),will say that he didnt had Fascist subconsciousness,it is a debate more or less...
I do not blame him for Hitler or anything of that magnitude,i mean that is ridiculous,but he pretty much
idolized a "master race"reality,which isnt like the Fascism Germany's one,but if you take a close look there are some weird elements there...
An Idealist will screw a lot of realistic aspects,cos he is an idealist and although ideals are unreachable he will always be convinced in his"Silver Angel City"in the heavens and that he can contribute to absolute harmony of man kind...If you have seen the movie Equilibrium,you know what i am talking...
What i am saying isnt idealism(perhaps it seems that it contains some fragments,but it is by far more pragmatic then Plato's State and especially far by the Religious idealism in which you all live).As you will realize that bellow.

My point was never to deal with Plato's republic,you brought that up as every one who have heard of the Plato's Republic,mention it to someone to whom he wants to prove that he is just fantasazing,without even grasping the reality of Plato's Republic paradigm...
Who im i to say.Plato's was wrong and i am right???
It has nothing to do with that.Plato's wanted to create a system,i am against this system.
I dont want to crate an alternative reality,but just to stimulate people to open their eyes and just put aside the mobile phone from the baby's head,cos it has a Lithium Ion battery(which even my sister does to it's baby,unconsciously of course).
Maybe i am being crazy,maybe people really enjoy watching their kids taking drugs and die from lung cancer...Perversion is a phenomenon...
I said this to someone and he said you want to brain wash me...I replied"how can i brain wash you by telling you the implication of smoking???"He said i know that it is bad but i dont want to stop.
I really dont give a shit whether this guy will die from that or not,as no one is,but that's our problem.We dont really care...We dont care if everyone dies this instant...and Religion's hypocrisy that they care about the poor and the sick is the biggest nonsense.
I dont care but it bothers me how can someone who evolved for Eons can be such a jack ass and actually buy this crap or anything else that is ruining him,just for the sake that he receives a false satisfaction that isnt really there...
Perhaps if we really throw all of this addictive stuff that pre occupy our lives,we will start to really care for each others and not badly act that some country is really concerned about Africa...
The thing is the System has found a way to chain every individual and offer to everyone his addiction or "personal heaven".

But you can thank Plato the most,because if there wasnt for him,your"prophet"would've been a poet and a lousy one too...
Before him people didnt really expressed in allegories in a subtle way,like after him...
I respect him immensely and he is the one who i dont know whether unconsciously reached to the deep abyss of the human psychology and it was Sigmund Freud who "borrowed"his "threedimensional model of the "soul"...The id,the Ego and the Alter ego are much similar to Plato's "Passion-Courage-Reason"...
You know the man is driving a chariot with two horses,the one is jumping like crazy and the other is going steady...How can the reason control the Passion who is consuming him self,cos the courage isnt damaging him self like his passion.How can he control the frenzy horse and reach his destination???
Or how can the man make the lion an ally,so that they can both defeat the Dragon???
I mean the guy was really something.... The Material-Passion,the Intellectual-Reason and the Spiritual-Corige or what ever you can think of(although this last is a bit hypothetical and merely speculative).

But you obviously miss understood my point and you equated it with the Republic of Plato...I guessed that you would find something similar to the Philosophical ancient models.
It is no secret that Religious people find philosophy "short eyed"although forgetting that it is "her fault"that this society is what it is today in scientifical aspect,not in ethical...Ethics and Morals vary from intellect to intellect.
Blind Belief and Asking absurd Questions is the contrast between Philosophy and Religion...Quran("perfection and the truth") or the constant evolving of Philosophic prisms and development...
Philosophers were often wrong and this trial and error way of thinking made the theory of relativity...
But when the "Prophet"was wrong with his Satanic Verses,hey there's the Allah who reveled to people that his prophet was not quite him self...and again the "ultimate truth" in the Quran or what ever "holy" book that you try to comercialise,was preserved and it remained flawless...
I wont try to discredit your Prophet who said that the iron would talk and now we have mobile phones and probably he referred to them.Or what he did to Aisha,i mean the man discredited enough him self,i have no reason to embarrass him more...
It is your "soft"presentation of Islam that's really interesting and what ever you say,you just cant help your self but praise your religion who by the way knows the truth about the meteors,who were lamps made to prevent the jins from entering the heavens and the Cosmic matters that are contained in that ludicrous "religious encyclopedia".
You've mentioned the "Scientific miracles in the Quran"stuff you once posted.Please do not go over that cos frankly it insults me man.You can say whatever you want to me but do not say that there's Theory of Relativity in the Quran...
I do not make fun of those people who "knew the truth".They make fun of the reality it self,by their desperate attempts to manipulate it.I only emhpesise their naive perception of how this universe was authored...

This is how ppl are separated between only 2 kind of individuals.. in simple words.. they are good or bad, according to thier nature, thier basic instinct that they have been born with.

Another religious view of how people are,a narrow view of good and the bad...
People are good and bad???
Bin Ladden is a bad person,or Hittler or Stalin????There is no role model for good as it is even when the saint finds out that he is a saint he will cease to be one...
What is good and what is bad???Was Moises good???Was Muhammad???I personally consider Muhammad as not quite a mold for a role model you might say.
Since we discussed about Muhammad's actions two years ago i have read the "holy" Quran,but when i have read that,i find the man even worst then i previously thought.Now of course Allah has closed my heart and "soul"cos he chooses who will be a believer and who wont,despite i have a brain and i can choose to laugh at Quran or Bible's doctrines or i can go and claim that Noe gathered 10 bilions of species,put them in a boat and then he distributed all over the planet and what the carnivours ate that is a different matter,or how the insects survived.Oh but he gathered them also.
I know this is how you want to point out that classifying people bad or good isnt right,but you do claim that there is good and bad...
I find religious sense of "intelligent"quite amusing as they claim that only the most intelligent and the most open minded can grasp the hidden containing in there and beside the fact that one person can understand far more complex matters then those collection of myths and legends,they are not "realizing the truth".
They feel that because they've understood the elementary school analogies contained in the "holy"books they are intelligent..........:D.

Even if i wasnt Philosophically reasoned,in my town there's a lot of Gypsies and they are all Muslims,so even if i was a total moron,just by seeing how they "love Allah"i would just use them es an example in what not to believe...
I know that they are idiots,but when an idiot can believe in that and when an idiot has been "opened" the doors to paradise,i choose not to go in to that paradise,just for the mere reason of believing that Muhammad actually wasnt a schizophrenic,or if he wasnt then he was a charlatan(i prefer the second one).
You consider Muhammad as the epitome of good and moral life,i strongly disagree...So who's to say whether one is good or bad???No one cos it isnt such thing as good or bad...People arent good nor bad,they do what is in their interest to reach their model of "happiness"as they imagine them selves and that is how things are...Bad or Good is a point of view...
Is the doctor who asks for 100 000$ for a heart transplant to a poor 9 year old parents,bad????Not according to our society...If you ask his family,wife or friends,they will say"hey that's life and it isnt fair,it happens all the time".
I constantly see your classification of good and the bad,although you might not agree with this good or bad stuff,but it is your religious concept of personificating the Evil and the Good,the balance.
"The Good always wins"...This has more to do with the mass suggestion that this society has indoctrinated people with all sorts of media nuking(and "holy" books),that there is good and that it will triumph over the evil,although there's some 70 year old one testicle old fart "feasting"over a 12 year old girl who is acting orgasm...
Yeah Good will triumph over that...That's right,he will be punished when Allah or Jahve get's his ass and throw him in to the lake of Fire:D...Until then he and a zillion "people" like him will do this until they die and then they will pay...
It is your subject to analyze "After death affairs" and you know what these people will face.I cant talk about that,i am Incompetent in that sphere...
While the real reality was my point and lot deeper then this,you've somehow missed it and insisted with Philosophy "criticism".I will be lot more concrete when i reveal my point being again...More vividly this time...But latter.

And here comes the conflict..
Cause the body`s main objective is to survive.
The bees or ants objective is to survive.
But the socrates ideal city`s objective is.. is to be ideal, is to be perfect.
Imperfect individuals cant come togther in one city to complete each other to be perfect specially when you can not be so sure if that is the main obective of every individual alone! and Socrates has totally ignored evey individual`s motivations and his own nature, who are those individuals? they are humans! and not machines.
This is not entirely exact.It isnt the society that is perfect there,as they just fallow their orders and their tasks,like they were raised from little.
There has been evidence that when a boy survived in the jungle,when they found him he was like a total animal,smarter,but still an animal...
They are not natural,but slapped by the Philosopher-King who made that reality possible.Who made the Gold-Silve-Bronze layers.It is the "Golden Soul"who orders what is their position.
Blind Belief in his "perfect state".
His republic isnt that different then your Islamic Utopia...If you see you will realize that Iran is building a somewhat of Plato's state(now Plato was extremely extreme there,but)...Iran is the biggest proof of the Islamic laws and "morals"and it's pragmatic incompatibility.
Financies ruled by an Islamic law???:D.This is why the Islamic countries are considered as the Third part of the world...
You are speaking about individualism and it seems ironic one who is "submitted"in a mass of unity to speak of individualism,one who defends idolatric and pagan rituals of kissing rocks and other irrational rituals...
There is actually individualism in that society which you call their women "naked" and "unhappy"although they can blame no one for their actions,since they arent submitted under no law,which asks them to submit,like in the "Iranian Islamic state"an epitome of Islam...No one is trying to make them"happy"like in Islamic countries.
Even there there's traces of Plato's "idealism".You say a man can not be a machine???Give him a crib in Manhattan and you will see whether he will refuse even the most absurd of tasks...
What are hit men???There's more hit men in the world today then lawyers...Arent they machines???
The security workers...Just name the subject and they will demolish it completely,for just a 100$...
But you have to squeeze people by their balls if you want them to be devoted and loyal like machines...
That's why there so many addictive substances to keep their auto suggestion chained and corroded.
There isnt something that a junky wont do if you give him a gram of Heroin.
The same goes for the Alcoholics and all greedy bustards(we are all greedy bustards).
Why does people hail their Kings to even this day???I mean what is the purpose of the English Queen???Isnt that a bit silly???What is she doing to make people respect her so much and bend their heads when she appears???
Is she essential for their species???The Queen in the Ant colony or the Queen of the Bees are crucial for the longevity of their species...But what is this human Queen doing to attain all this awe???
It is another brainwashing method actually...Or the Emperor in Japan,or Denmark...Who really needs these people????Why should i bow to these ludicrous human beings???
It is really how you program people to think and beside the fact that medieval kings accumulated their riches through conquest and battles,these just sit eat and party all the time...
There is a government composed of intellectuals that is subordinated to that idiot prince Charles...They even got their newspapers ironed...
When this can occur you ask about people's motivation and can they be machines???

as according to God`s words in the Quran..This unbalanced situation will natuarlly cause an interfernce a third party, this third party`s job is to set things back to natural.. to make it balanced again.

God's words in the Quran????:rolleyes:
And this third party i presume is the one who commands the sun to go under his throne and above it???Typically human.
Someone's job is to watch us not to cross the line and cause a catastrophe???
But your Quran didnt told that when Truman released Fission in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and when Chernobil exploded the balance was already shifted,as this whole society is a proof of a distorted balance.In fact it has been crumbling long before that...Where is your Quran to tell to Iran that playing with Nuclear power is begging for a catastrophe to occur???As no one told to America when they first brough the issue on the table...
No color or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun.As it wont stop the another catastrophe...
Your "third party"is doing a lousy job dude...Where is the "third party"to regain the balance????
It is not usual in this period of the year for me to walk with a t-shirt you know...
It is 26 degrees outside and it is Winter.This isnt really Beverly Hills,where these phenomenons are usual.It is unheard of this before in "my" parts of the world.

Where was the third party when humanity exterminated thousands of species????It is not natural for an unnatural extermination of a specie which has no problems with his environment,but it is exterminated,because of the sake of his,skin,teeth,dick or whatever...
Every nuclear test is ruining the balance...
The balance is so twisted that it is getting even ridiculous...Your "third party"is perhaps enjoying all this as maybe to all of his "human characteristics,virtues and flaws"he is a sadist beside everything else...
When a man learned to manipulate the most destructive/constructive power in the universe the Fusion(+with deutonium,as if the "ordinary"H-bomb atomic structure isnt devastating enough),you speak about balance and the "third party"???
Your speculative reasoning has no boundaries...But i have no problem with that.You will die speculating,as i will die refusing to accept your speculations which has never been confirmed and they never will be,you can be assured in that.As only a religious fanatic will imagine that this black meteorite that you people kiss was actually from heaven from Adam's and Eve's ancient time....

What the Quran say on Fussion and Fission???They have probably included that recently,we should check that out...

If you leave your religious shell and for a moment forget about what the Quran 'say"you will realize that we are not the third party,but the fourth...When people can manipulate the human genes and decode it's secrets,do you still think that we can not influence the evolution and that someone can stop us???
The Genetics is the youngest scientific sphere...And this is the case because people who thinks that someone from the First and the Seventh century "knew the truth"...
Genetic Reconstruction is the altering of our genome and evolution...

Do you know that Man is the only living being on earth that really has double Identities? or I would say man is a compination of 2 pieces.


split personality
personal disorder in which someone believes that they are two different and independent individuals .
a relatively rare dissociative disorder in which the usual integrity of the personality breaks down and two or more independent personalities emerge

Yeah unfortunately there are people like this,but generalizing the whole human race as Split Personalities is just too"optimistic".:wave:

When i mentioned the "stranger in us",it is the "personality"which is a "salary cap"and defies our real personalities,to stop using excuses for ruining our lives and the lives of our closest ones...
It keeps our happiness locked away and it deceives us with synthetical substances that will guarantee our happiness.
It is the personality how the corporations wants,the media,Moratti,La Porta and as someone else wants Moratti and Laporta to be :D...
And we can do that by telling that ther eis no physical prove that spirit does exist ( )... so there is no God, and so all religions are false.

It`s easy to live like a rabbit than to live like a human being.. and here my friend where the human evolution Is getting destorted.

Now if Christianity is Right,that makes Islam a false religion and vice versa,they can not both be accurate...
Why dont you admit how wrong Christianity is and stop plurally expressing your self as an "advocate"of all religions.
You know the rabbit doesnt crawl on his knees every day and he kisses no ones ass...But a rabbit is a rabbit.
So Human evolution is getting distorted,because people doesnt go and "stone the devil",or run around the meteorite,or pray every day to them selves????Then these people arent rabbits???
Rabbits primal fear is his survival,while religious fear is his "after life survival"(how ever absurd that sounds),it's all about that.You can deny that,but psychology has a different "theory"to offer.
Not that i blindly swallow psychology,but it is lot more sophisticated and logical then the Islamic concept of reason...

No,religion doesnt belong in Evolution.You shouldnt even speak about Evolution as you contradict your own religion(oh i forgot the Quran talks about Evolution too and Darvin probably got his enlightening from there).
Religion has nothing to do with Evolution.

evolution
n. development, progression, unfolding, growth; gradual change in the gene pool (Biology)

Tell me does this looks anything like Religion???You know Growth,Development...
Religion is stagnation of everything.It kept the human progress from them selves...Is Religion progressing???

So Religious people are the real human beings and i am an equivalent to a rabbit???If someone refuses to be indoctrinated like the rest of the billions of feeble minded people,then he is an equivalent to a rabbit...
To make my point here i will quote the fallowing which is a Psychological analyze of the "real human beings"...

http://csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.jpg

Why Bad Beliefs Don't Die
Because beliefs are designed to enhance our ability to survive, they are biologically designed to be strongly resistant to change. To change beliefs, skeptics must address the brain's "survival" issues of meanings and implications in addition to discussing their data.

Gregory W. Lester
Belief Because a basic tenet of both skeptical thinking and scientific inquiry is that beliefs can be wrong, it is often confusing and irritating to scientists and skeptics that so many people's beliefs do not change in the face of disconfirming evidence. How, we wonder, are people able to hold beliefs that contradict the data?

This puzzlement can produce an unfortunate tendency on the part of skeptical thinkers to demean and belittle people whose beliefs don't change in response to evidence. They can be seen as inferior, stupid, or crazy. This attitude is born of skeptics' failure to understand the biological purpose of beliefs and the neurological necessity for them to be resilient and stubbornly resistant to change. The truth is that for all their rigorous thinking, many skeptics do not have a clear or rational understanding of what beliefs are and why even faulty ones don't die easily. Understanding the biological purpose of beliefs can help skeptics to be far more effective in challenging irrational beliefs and communicating scientific conclusions.

Biology and Survival
Our brain's primary purpose is to keep us alive. It certainly does more than that, but survival is always its fundamental purpose and always comes first. If we are injured to the point where our bodies only have enough energy to support consciousness or a heartbeat but not both, the brain has no problem choosing-it puts us into a coma (survival before consciousness), rather than an alert death-spiral (consciousness before survival).

Because every brain activity serves a fundamental survival purpose, the only way to accurately understand any brain function is to examine its value as a tool for survival. Even the difficulty of successfully treating such behavioral disorders as obesity and addiction can only be understood by examining their relationship to survival. Any reduction in caloric intake or in the availability of a substance to which an individual is addicted is always perceived by the brain as a threat to survival. As a result the brain powerfully defends the overeating or the substance abuse, producing the familiar lying, sneaking, denying, rationalizing, and justifying commonly exhibited by individuals suffering from such disorders.

Senses and Beliefs
One of the brain's primary tools for ensuring survival is our senses. Obviously, we must be able to accurately perceive danger in order to take action designed to keep us safe. In order to survive we need to be able to see the lion charging us as we emerge from our cave or hear the intruder breaking into our house in the middle of the night.

Senses alone, however, are inadequate as effective detectors of danger because they are severely limited in both range and scope. We can have direct sensory contact with only a small portion of the world at any one time. The brain considers this to be a significant problem because even normal, everyday living requires that we constantly move in and out of the range of our perceptions of the world as it is right now. Entering into territory we have not previously seen or heard puts us in the dangerous position of having no advance warning of potential dangers. If I walk into an unfamiliar building in a dangerous part of town my survival probabilities diminish because I have no way of knowing whether the roof is ready to collapse or a gunman is standing inside the doorway.

Enter beliefs. "Belief" is the name we give to the survival tool of the brain that is designed to augment and enhance the danger-identification function of our senses. Beliefs extend the range of our senses so that we can better detect danger and thus improve our chances of survival as we move into and out of unfamiliar territory. Beliefs, in essence, serve as our brain's "long-range danger detectors."

Functionally, our brains treat beliefs as internal "maps" of those parts of the world with which we do not have immediate sensory contact. As I sit in my living room I cannot see my car. Although I parked it in my driveway some time ago, using only immediate sensory data I do not know if it is still there. As a result, at this moment sensory data is of very little use to me regarding my car. In order to find my car with any degree of efficiency my brain must ignore the current sensory data (which, if relied on in a strictly literal sense, not only fails to help me in locating my car but actually indicates that it no longer exists) and turn instead to its internal map of the location of my car. This is my belief that my car is still in my driveway where I left it. By referring to my belief rather than to sensory data, my brain can "know" something about the world with which I have no immediate sensory contact. This "extends" my brain's knowledge of and contact with the world.

The ability of belief to extend contact with the world beyond the range of our immediate senses substantially improves our ability to survive. A caveman has a much greater ability to stay alive if he is able to maintain a belief that dangers exist in the jungle even when his sensory data indicate no immediate threat. A police officer will be substantially more safe if he or she can continue to believe that someone stopped for a traffic violation could be an armed psychopath with an impulse to kill even though they present a seemingly innocuous appearance.

Beyond the Sensory
Because beliefs do not require immediate sensory data to be able to feed valuable survival information to the brain, they have the additional survival function of providing information about the realm of life that does not deal directly with sensory entities. This is the area of abstractions and principles that involves such things as "reasons," "causes," and "meanings." I cannot hear or see the "reason" called a "low pressure zone" that makes a thunderstorm rain on my parade, so my ability to believe that low pressure is the reason assists me. If I were to rely strictly on my senses to determine the cause of the storm I could not tell why it occurred. For all I know it was dragged in by invisible flying gremlins that I need to shoot with my shotgun if I want to clear away the clouds. Therefore my brain's reliance on my "belief" in the reason called "low pressure," rather than on sensory data (or, as in the case of my car, my lack of it) assists in my survival: I avoid an experience of incarceration with myriad dangerous characters following my arrest for shooting into the air at those pesky little gremlins.

The Resilience of Beliefs
Because senses and beliefs are both tools for survival and have evolved to augment one another, our brain considers them to be separate but equally important purveyors of survival information. The loss of either one endangers us. Without our senses we could not know about the world within our perceptual realm. Without our beliefs we could not know about the world outside our senses or about meanings, reasons, or causes.

This means that beliefs are designed to operate independent of sensory data. In fact, the whole survival value of beliefs is based on their ability to persist in the face of contradictory evidence. Beliefs are not supposed to change easily or simply in response to disconfirming evidence. If they did, they would be virtually useless as tools for survival. Our caveman would not last long if his belief in potential dangers in the jungle evaporated every time his sensory information told him there was no immediate threat. A police officer unable to believe in the possibility of a killer lurking behind a harmless appearance could easily get hurt or killed.

As far as our brain is concerned, there is absolutely no need for data and belief to agree. They have each evolved to augment and supplement one another by contacting different sections of the world. They are designed to be able to disagree. This is why scientists can believe in God and people who are generally quite reasonable and rational can believe in things for which there is no credible data such as flying saucers, telepathy, and psychokinesis.

When data and belief come into conflict, the brain does not automatically give preference to data. This is why beliefs-even bad beliefs, irrational beliefs, silly beliefs, or crazy beliefs-often don't die in the face of contradictory evidence. The brain doesn't care whether or not the belief matches the data. It cares whether the belief is helpful for survival. Period. So while the scientific, rational part of our brains may think that data should supercede contradictory beliefs, on a more fundamental level of importance our brain has no such bias. It is extremely reticent to jettison its beliefs. Like an old soldier with an old gun who does not quite trust that the war is really over, the brain often refuses to surrender its weapon even though the data say it should.

"Inconsequential" Beliefs
Even beliefs that do not seem clearly or directly connected to survival (such as our caveman's ability to believe in potential dangers) are still closely connected to survival. This is because beliefs do not occur individually or in a vacuum. They are related to one another in a tightly interlocking system that creates the brain's fundamental view of the nature of the world. It is this system that the brain relies on in order to experience consistency, control, cohesion, and safety in the world. It must maintain this system intact in order to feel that survival is being successfully accomplished.

This means that even seemingly small, inconsequential beliefs can be as integral to the brain's experience of survival as are beliefs that are "obviously" connected to survival. Thus, trying to change any belief, no matter how small or silly it may seem, can produce ripple effects through the entire system and ultimately threaten the brain's experience of survival. This is why people are so often driven to defend even seemingly small or tangential beliefs. A creationist cannot tolerate believing in the accuracy of data indicating the reality of evolution not because of the accuracy or inaccuracy of the data itself, but because changing even one belief related to matters of the Bible and the nature of creation will crack an entire system of belief, a fundamental worldview and, ultimately, their brain's experience of survival.

Implications for Skeptics
Skeptical thinkers must realize that because of the survival value of beliefs, disconfirming evidence will rarely, if ever, be sufficient to change beliefs, even in "otherwise intelligent" people. In order to effectively change beliefs skeptics must attend to their survival value, not just their data-accuracy value. This involves several elements.

First, skeptics must not expect beliefs to change simply as the result of data or assuming that people are stupid because their beliefs don't change. They must avoid becoming critical or demeaning in response to the resilience of beliefs. People are not necessarily idiots just because their beliefs don't yield to new information. Data is always necessary, but it is rarely sufficient.

Second, skeptics must learn to always discuss not just the specific topic addressed by the data, but also the implications that changing the related beliefs will have for the fundamental worldview and belief system of the affected individuals. Unfortunately, addressing belief systems is a much more complicated and daunting task than simply presenting contradictory evidence. Skeptics must discuss the meaning of their data in the face of the brain's need to maintain its belief system in order to maintain a sense of wholeness, consistency, and control in life. Skeptics must become adept at discussing issues of fundamental philosophies and the existential anxiety that is stirred up any time beliefs are challenged. The task is every bit as much philosophical and psychological as it is scientific and data-based.

Third, and perhaps most important, skeptics must always appreciate how hard it is for people to have their beliefs challenged. It is, quite literally, a threat to their brain's sense of survival. It is entirely normal for people to be defensive in such situations. The brain feels it is fighting for its life. It is unfortunate that this can produce behavior that is provocative, hostile, and even vicious, but it is understandable as well.

The lesson for skeptics is to understand that people are generally not intending to be mean, contrary, harsh, or stupid when they are challenged. It's a fight for survival. The only effective way to deal with this type of defensiveness is to de-escalate the fighting rather than inflame it. Becoming sarcastic or demeaning simply gives the other person's defenses a foothold to engage in a tit-for-tat exchange that justifies their feelings of being threatened ("Of course we fight the skeptics-look what uncaring, hostile jerks they are!") rather than a continued focus on the truth.

Skeptics will only win the war for rational beliefs by continuing, even in the face of defensive responses from others, to use behavior that is unfailingly dignified and tactful and that communicates respect and wisdom. For the data to speak loudly, skeptics must always refrain from screaming.

Finally, it should be comforting to all skeptics to remember that the truly amazing part of all of this is not that so few beliefs change or that people can be so irrational, but that anyone's beliefs ever change at all. Skeptics' ability to alter their own beliefs in response to data is a true gift; a unique, powerful, and precious ability. It is genuinely a "higher brain function" in that it goes against some of the most natural and fundamental biological urges. Skeptics must appreciate the power and, truly, the dangerousness that this ability bestows upon them. They have in their possession a skill that can be frightening, life-changing, and capable of inducing pain. In turning this ability on others it should be used carefully and wisely. Challenging beliefs must always be done with care and compassion.

Skeptics must remember to always keep their eye on the goal. They must see the long view. They must attempt to win the war for rational beliefs, not to engage in a fight to the death over any one particular battle with any one particular individual or any one particular belief. Not only must skeptics' methods and data be clean, direct, and unbiased, their demeanor and behavior must be as well.

About the Author
Gregory W. Lester, Ph.D. is a psychologist on the graduate faculty of the University of St. Thomas in Houston, Texas, and in private practice in Houston and in Denver, Colorado. Address correspondence to: Gregory W. Lester, Ph.D., 111 Harrison St., Suite 1, Denver, Colorado 80206.

Now i can not restrain my self returning the favor to someone who puts religion beyond philosophy and i am not as tactical as this Psychologists prescribes,but i am a rabbit :D...

There will be always a conflict between our both IDs or the two parts that we are contains of.. No one can control it... no one but.. .. damn!
But a man who knows the truth!!... that`s it!!!!
and I believe that Muhammed knew the truth!..
Amazingly, that the basics of Islam (as I know) is to try to get rid of the primitive animalitic needs... no not littraly to get rid, I mean that to try not to make our main objectives that we satisfy and fill our animalistic needs as to be our basic and majour objetive in life!!!.. Muhammed and Quran always refered to the fact that there is a higher objectives that if we understood and tried to realize, we will be reaching much higher degrees and we will be knowing more about this life!
Yeah Muhammad knew the truth and he won the battle against "Sexual apetites"when he married a six year old child,or when he married his son's wife. He knew the truth alright...He convinced the Lion(who usually teams up with the Dragon and they devour the man),to join him and he defeated his "Dragon"with seven heads.

I know you have a grudge for Philosophy(as any religious person does,philosophers ask too many questions,religion doesnt like that.) so i understand that you thought that i am paraphrasing the Plato's Republic.

This human society is suffering because of the model which is unconsciously striving to Plato's Republic.Religion what ever you name it...(now there is no unit to measure the similarity).Control under people's lives...
People who think that they are too damn smart,always want to rule and pour their wisdom to preserve the "harmony",or to create it.Not to make things better for everyone,but for them...
There is no real Democracy...It's just nonsense.People are influenced and it is ridiculous to presume that the majority rules in the western civilization...
C'mon...But even that is better then the Religious social orders(which proved in practic long time ago and now it's Islam's turn,with Iran topping the list).
We are born and we are being controlled like horses,by your Quran,by the Bible,by Bush,by Trump,they are merely a model of the "philosopher King".Although i think the real manipulators are behind the curtain(not metaphysically)...
Our Evolution is distorted because we do not attempt to wipe out the poison of this society...Literally the poison...As i said.The whole world population should demolish the Tobacco industry,the Alcohol one...My point wasnt that metaphysical as it was physical...
The intellectual atrophy,so that people release them selves from the closed circle,where they can not rebel.
You can not be free until you rebel and you can not rebel until you are free...It is a closed circle...
I am not saying literally that we should think as one as i noted that some are less and some are more intelligent.But what is the cause of the most severe diseases???Isnt that the nicotine,Alcohol,Drugs???If nothing else,these can be put aside.But the more you want to restrain people from this,the more they crave for it...As if you want to restrain them from that,because this makes them better....
Why our children are getting more and more sick???Refined sugar,McDonalds,Coca Cola,Franch fries,chocolate...This has been served to our children in front of our eyes.
Cant we all just say no to this???All of this is distorting the genomes...We even dont have to find a cure for cancer,since we are enhancing that our selves...Although if humanity really work together and strive for excellence in all things(this also includes healthy lives).If you teach little children that Putin is the man they should idealise and imitate,we are screwed...
Just as the Islamic society teaches little children to dress like him,to work like him and even to walk like him...
They design video games in Iran where the Mujahedins kill Americans and Jews and when they finish the game they are rejoined with their fallen brother in Heaven...
Americans doesnt do these stuff with video games,they go and ass kick people for real,but hey America is America...I mean INTER ARMA SILENT LEGES.
The Plato's republic is run by one entity...They do not develop,they stagnate and here is your failure to perceive my point.When ever you claim something to be"Absolute,Ideal,perfect,almighty"you are losing your self.
There is no room for progress or development.You do not even question what and why are you doing things you do and this is Greatest law in every religion,you may question it,but do not suspect it's eventual fallacy.
You are criticizing the one who is more or less responsible for the Religious system as we know it today...You actually criticize your own opinion...
I do not want for people to be raised as a bronze layer of society...Ainstain is the proof that this is ridiculous.In Plato's Republic you can not choose,you are are what you are told you are,no more no less(there are tests,but evaluating human intelligence with mere tests is unproductive as our intelligence developed it self with constant trial and error though out the ages and unpredictable situations)....
If Human race devides resources and shear it among it self,people will have to think about lot more intelligent things then to repair toilets and cleaning someone's crap for the sake of surviving.(can it be that a person who does this is an idiot???)
People in Africa wont have to die every second of Malaria,Tuberkulosis or hunger...
The smartest can take care of the less smart and not leave them at the mercy of nature.It is the same thing as asking for money to transplant a heart as if there's not enough dead people...
Perhaps there's some "Ainstain"or Stephen Hawking in Africa,but the lad just cant concentrate on the Cosmos when there's a Rhino in his back yard and he just cant quite think with an empty stomach...
Is this an utopia???Does it takes a catastrophe for human kind to start helping each other???Poor societies produce rich criminals,not the sophisticated ones(although that is relative).If we use money then cant we use it to build the ruined societies???
Then money would mean nothing as rich people comfort them selves with the poor...