The orgion of the Foustanella

[Panathinaikos2]

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[Panathinaikos2]

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[Panathinaikos2]

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[Panathinaikos2]

By the way sorry for the typo on the threads name.

[philipas]

No pana, the origins of the foustanella is ALBANIAN.

[Panathinaikos2]

It could very well possibly be Albanian since the Albanians also wore it long ago but I still stand by my statement.

[philipas]

They can have it....

[Panathinaikos2]

I editted all my comments becuase I didn't want to create a flame war and becuase I felt stupid for making a topic about the foustanella. This thread should be locked.

[PAO_HELLAS]

No pana, the origins of the foustanella is ALBANIAN.

The foustanella is an evolution of the skirt the Greek soldiers were always wearing, till the 20th century. Can you remind me any specific elements of the foustanella which need special origins?

[Panathinaikos2]

The foustanella is an evolution of the skirt the Greek soldiers were always wearing, till the 20th century. Can you remind me any specific elements of the foustanella which need special origins?No that's ok PAO I have actually posted proof on how the foustanella is Greek but I editted all my comments so I wouldn't start a flame war. If you want I can post them again?

[poutismalakas]

I have a feling that the Albanians won't care who invented the foustanella

[PAO_HELLAS]

No that's ok PAO I have actually posted proof on how the foustanella is Greek but I editted all my comments so I wouldn't start a flame war. If you want I can post them again?

There is no need for that.

:closed:

[Sandro1]

It is "Fustanella" in the Albanian way..


Although not that I do really care about Fustanella but the facts shows that Ancient Albanians were the first to wore it..

Qoutes]
The famous Albanian kilt (or fustanella as it is known in the Albanian language) was common dress for men in the 13th century where it was regularly worn by a tribe of the Dalmatians,
one of the Illyrian progenitors of the Albanians.
At that time, the kilt was called "Dalmatica", however, theories exist that the kilt really had its origin during much earlier times as a long shirt called "linja" which, when gathered at the waist by a sash, gave the appearance of a knee- or calf-length kilt.
Depending on the social status of the wearer, materials used in fabricating the fustanella (thereby defining the number of pleats) ranged fromcoarse linen or woolen cloth for villagers to luxurious silks for the more affluent. Although the kilt was once worn by men throughout Albania,
today it is seen only on special occasions in southern Albania,
especially in the Gjirokaster area, and in the Albanian regions of Montenegro, Kosova, Serbia, Macedonia, and Greece.

The Hungarian sociologist, Baron Nopcsa, believed that the Albanian, or Illyrian, kilt became the original pattern for the Roman military dress, and, because of its similarity to the Celtic kilt, he also theorized that the Roman legions in Britain, through the presence of its Illyrian element, probably started the fashion among the Celts (it may also be interesting to note that the Celtic word for "Scotland" is "Alban").

Lord Byron, in Childe Harold's Pilgrimage, observed the "...Albanian kirtled to the knee", and T.S. Finlay in his Travels through Greece and Albania states, unequivocally, that "It was the fame of the Albanians which induced the modern Greeks to adopt the Albanian kilt as their national costume."
See "The Albanians and Their Territories," Pages 164-166, "8 Nentori " Publishing House, Tirana, 1985, and Faik Konitza's "Albania: Rock Garden of Southeastern Europe ," Pages 81-90
From at least the 14th century, a strong cotton cloth called "fustan" was produced - hence the name of the garment "fustan" and later the diminutive "fustanella." But archeological evidence points to the fustanella as being a more ancient form of clothing. Among the more important (archeological) finds are 1. a small ceramic statue from the 4th century C.E.(AD) found in Durres which depicts a man wearing a long fustanella fastened with two bands across the chest; 2. a gravestone from the 3rd to 4th century C.E.(AD) found in Smokthine, near Vlora, which shows a man dressed in a fustanella; and 3. a much more ancient figurine found in Maribor, Slovenia, which dates from the 5th century B.C.E. (BC) which also shows a fustanella worn with the two bands across the chest.

[poutismalakas]

It is "Fustanella" in the Albanian way..


Although not that I do really care about Fustanella but the facts shows that Ancient Albanians were the first to wore it..

Qoutes]
The famous Albanian kilt (or fustanella as it is known in the Albanian language) was common dress for men in the 13th century where it was regularly worn by a tribe of the Dalmatians,
one of the Illyrian progenitors of the Albanians.
At that time, the kilt was called "Dalmatica", however, theories exist that the kilt really had its origin during much earlier times as a long shirt called "linja" which, when gathered at the waist by a sash, gave the appearance of a knee- or calf-length kilt.
Depending on the social status of the wearer, materials used in fabricating the fustanella (thereby defining the number of pleats) ranged fromcoarse linen or woolen cloth for villagers to luxurious silks for the more affluent. Although the kilt was once worn by men throughout Albania,
today it is seen only on special occasions in southern Albania,
especially in the Gjirokaster area, and in the Albanian regions of Montenegro, Kosova, Serbia, Macedonia, and Greece.

The Hungarian sociologist, Baron Nopcsa, believed that the Albanian, or Illyrian, kilt became the original pattern for the Roman military dress, and, because of its similarity to the Celtic kilt, he also theorized that the Roman legions in Britain, through the presence of its Illyrian element, probably started the fashion among the Celts (it may also be interesting to note that the Celtic word for "Scotland" is "Alban").

Lord Byron, in Childe Harold's Pilgrimage, observed the "...Albanian kirtled to the knee", and T.S. Finlay in his Travels through Greece and Albania states, unequivocally, that "It was the fame of the Albanians which induced the modern Greeks to adopt the Albanian kilt as their national costume."
See "The Albanians and Their Territories," Pages 164-166, "8 Nentori " Publishing House, Tirana, 1985, and Faik Konitza's "Albania: Rock Garden of Southeastern Europe ," Pages 81-90
From at least the 14th century, a strong cotton cloth called "fustan" was produced - hence the name of the garment "fustan" and later the diminutive "fustanella." But archeological evidence points to the fustanella as being a more ancient form of clothing. Among the more important (archeological) finds are 1. a small ceramic statue from the 4th century C.E.(AD) found in Durres which depicts a man wearing a long fustanella fastened with two bands across the chest; 2. a gravestone from the 3rd to 4th century C.E.(AD) found in Smokthine, near Vlora, which shows a man dressed in a fustanella; and 3. a much more ancient figurine found in Maribor, Slovenia, which dates from the 5th century B.C.E. (BC) which also shows a fustanella worn with the two bands across the chest.


The origins of the Foustanella WILL NOT debated nor challenged by me


YOU CAN HAVE THE Foustanella:D

For the only reason that IT doesn't really matter about cloths or food styles as much to me. Since if certain clothes worked better or food taste better ANYONE would adopt it!!!!!

[Sandro1]

The origins of the Foustanella WILL NOT debated nor challenged by me


YOU CAN HAVE THE Foustanella:D

For the only reason that IT doesn't really matter about cloths or food styles as much to me. Since if certain clothes worked better or food taste better ANYONE would adopt it!!!!!

No its just since we are talkin about it. i saw pana tring to say that fustanella was greek by origine, and i just tell him this..

Poutis you can take the fustanella:lol: as you allready did, greeks adopt the fustanella, Albanians had it way before;)

[Panathinaikos2]

Here's a 5th cent. Byzantine icon again depicting a 'tunica' under the armor :
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/2005-06-20_165539_l9-1.jpg

[Panathinaikos2]

Of course its origins are far older as written by PAUL REHAK in his "Aegean Breechcloths, Kilts, and the Keftiu Paintings" clearly states :

"In discussions of Aegean costume, considerable attention has been paid to the change in the representation of presumed Aegean natives (the Keftiu) in several Egyptian tomb paintings of the 18th Dynasty. The earlier tombs depict men wearing breechcloths with codpieces and backflaps; the later tombs show men in kilts. The date of this change has usually been thought to coincide with a shift & power in the Aegean at-the end of LM IB, from Minoans (with codpieces) to Mycenaeans (in kilts)."

[Panathinaikos2]

"But both breechcloths and kilts are worn on Crete
at least from MM II times, and neither costume is generally worn by early Mycenaeans. Breechcloths with codpieces characterize certain types of Minoan activity (hunting, farming, bull-leaping, and ritual performances),
whereas shorts appear in early Mycenaean scenes of hunting and fighting, replaced in LH IIIA-B frescoes by tunics; most Mycenaean representations of kilts are quite late (LH IIIB)."

(note that "Middle Minoan II = 1900-1720 B.C
"Late Helladic IIIB" = 1300-1200 BC)

[Panathinaikos2]

So there you have it. The foustanellas is Greek.

[poutismalakas]

No its just since we are talkin about it. i saw pana tring to say that fustanella was greek by origine, and i just tell him this..

Poutis you can take the fustanella:lol: as you allready did, greeks adopt the fustanella, Albanians had it way before;)
As I said YOU CAN HAVE IT!!!!:ronaldo:

On a serious note I think with kilt like clothes, many cultures have adopted or invented their own versions because I think the tech wasn't there back them to create goode needles needed to sew. So kilts were a viable item of clothes

[PAO_HELLAS]

What about the Scottish skirt? :D

[poutismalakas]

What about the Scottish skirt? :D
The Albanians can have the Scottish kilt TOO!!!:D

[ARBANITAI]

The Albanians can have the Scottish kilt TOO!!!:D

Nah you can have it :lol:

are you trying to be funny :rolleyes: hehe i dont think that will work out for you!;)

[PAO_HELLAS]

Hecuran, why this thread is still open :D ?

[GentiaNi]

The Albanians can have the Scottish kilt TOO!!!:D

first off this thread is started by greeks, so dont try to hit it on us, and why albanians have the scotish clit ? I say greeks take the scotish clit too since u took Albanian fustanella as well.. and I m not sayin anything against because greeks adopt an albanian traditional costume, they might like the way it looks and so they took it, I dont see any problem, but if we are talkin about the orginine, then i dont want to hear because, illyrians were the first to wore the fustanella, then romans greeks turks etc adopt it later...but no big deal have it only dont try to claim it was urs as first!

the first fustanella has been founded in today modern slovenia, northern Illyrian tribes, then also founded in durres as well, shows an Illyrian man had wore the fustanella on, and you cant claim he was greek in anyway, because the city of durres have been under colonisations, like roman and greek, but the place allways was Illyrian!

[poutismalakas]

first off this thread is started by greeks, so dont try to hit it on us, and why albanians have the scotish clit ? I say greeks take the scotish clit too since u took Albanian fustanella as well.. and I m not sayin anything against because greeks adopt an albanian traditional costume, they might like the way it looks and so they took it, I dont see any problem, but if we are talkin about the orginine, then i dont want to hear because, illyrians were the first to wore the fustanella, then romans greeks turks etc adopt it later...but no big deal have it only dont try to claim it was urs as first!

the first fustanella has been founded in today modern slovenia, northern Illyrian tribes, then also founded in durres as well, shows an Illyrian man had wore the fustanella on, and you cant claim he was greek in anyway, because the city of durres have been under colonisations, like roman and greek, but the place allways was Illyrian!
First of ALL I'm just having fun! Sandro and Hecuran understand and are poking back:boink: :boink: :D
Also as far as Durres goes that city is just like Nice, France: founded by Greeks BUT now French and Albanian cities!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DurresGreek foundation
DurrësThe city was founded as Epidamnos in 627 BC by Greek colonists from Corinth and Corfu (Kérkyra). Its geographical position was highly advantageous, being situated around a natural rocky harbour which was surrounded by inland swamps and high cliffs on the seaward side, making the city very difficult to attack from either land or sea. Epidamnos was noted for being a politically advanced society, prompting the ancient philosopher Aristotle to praise its political system. However, Corinth and Corcyra quarrelled over the city, helping to precipitate the Peloponnesian War in 431 BC.
YES the SURROUNDING AREA was Illyrian BUT the city WAS a Greek colony.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice
Nice (Nicaea) was founded in the 5th century BC by the Greeks of Marseille and received the name of Νικαία ("Nikaia") in honour of a victory over the neighbouring Ligurians (Nike being the goddess of victory). It soon became one of the busiest trading stations on the Ligurian coast; but as a city it had an important rival in the Roman town of Cemenelum, which continued to exist as a separate city till the time of the Lombard invasions, and has left its ruins at Cimiez, which is now a quarter of Nice.

YES the SURROUNDING AREA was Celtic BUT the city WAS a Greek colony.

Now are as far as the Foustanella goes weither it was Illyrian, Greek, Dacian, Thracian, or Roman it doesn't matter!!! What matters is that that garment WORKED for the people who invented it and/or adopted it! I don't know WHY this thread was started BUT I feel that it may need to be CLOSED!!!!!!

[poutismalakas]

Nah you can have it :lol:

are you trying to be funny :rolleyes: hehe i dont think that will work out for you!;)

How about this WE let the scots have the kilt and you take back the foustanella???:D

On a Side note I HATE the foustanella!!:mad2: Especially after ALL my Mexican and American friends in 1985 found out I was wearing it for dancing! those jokes went from 85 to 90!!!! :worried:

[PAO_HELLAS]

How about this WE let the scots have the kilt and you take back the foustanella???:D

On a Side note I HATE the foustanella!!:mad2: Especially after ALL my Mexican and American friends in 1985 found out I was wearing it for dancing! those jokes went from 85 to 90!!!! :worried:

Bad that the soldiers who wore the foustanella accomplished things your Mexican and American friends can't imagine even in their craziest dream :D.

[philipas]

hehe, I know what you mean poutis....

FOUSTANELLA POWER!!!

http://img424.imageshack.us/img424/4945/43hi6.jpg

[poutismalakas]

Bad that the soldiers who wore the foustanella accomplished things your Mexican and American friends can't imagine even in their craziest dream :D.
I think it was because of the character and heart of those men and women, not a skirt that allowed them to accomplish those acts. Also I am American born so Kilts are seen as sorta unmanly?

Also phil that is one FUNNY pic where the hell did you get that.:lol: :lol: :lol:

[PAO_HELLAS]

I think it was because of the character and heart of those men and women, not a skirt that allowed them to accomplish those acts. Also I am American born so Kilts are seen as sorta unmanly?

For sure, but the Greek soldiers were wearing skirts in all their great accomplishments, fom the battle of Thermopyles till the Greek-Italian war in WW2. I mean none can be ironic with them.

And if I had to take a masculinity lesson this would not be from American kiddos for sure :lol:.

Also phil that is one FUNNY pic where the hell did you get that.:lol: :lol: :lol:

They have a kind of "cow statue exhibition" in Athens right now. Last time I was there 2 weeks ago I found many of them in the streets, every statue has its own design and colors. It is kind of hilarious :rolleyes: .

[philipas]

that's right cows on parade in athens. that picture and more (more) (907 & 915) was taken last weekend in Athens. They've been doing the tours of European capitals.

the foustenalla in front of the parliament is not specifically Albanian, and there are many variations of it. Albanians wore it as did the Arvanites and lots of other Balkan peoples and yes you can also trace it back many centuries. Personally I think what the ancient Greeks wore, looked much fiercer. Breast plate, helmet, kilt and sandals. Like you had as your sig once poutis.:evil:

[PAO_HELLAS]

Breast plate, helmet, kilt and sandals. Like you had as your sig once poutis.:evil:

I would not say sandals are confortable in a battle :D. They were usually barefoot.

[Panathinaikos2]

I don't give a shit what some Americans say. The foustanella is part of our heritage and I will never be ashamed that my heroes of the revolutionary war wore this.

[PAO_HELLAS]

Who gives anyway, this is not a reason to worry.

[Panathinaikos2]

Yea and besides fashion is always different you know :p

[PAO_HELLAS]

http://anekdota.dyndns.org/jotd23/att-0461/01-______.jpg

Telos... :D

[Panathinaikos2]

Telos... :D:lol: :lol:

[poutismalakas]

Personally I think what the ancient Greeks wore, looked much fiercer. Breast plate, helmet, kilt and sandals. Like you had as your sig once poutis.:evil:

Don't remind me. I get pissed thinking about losing that sig from time to time!!!:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

[Panathinaikos2]

I get pissed about losing my Metaxas sig as well :mad2:

[PAO_HELLAS]

I lost my sig with the PAO-Ajax ticket and the Hellenic flag too http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/images/smilies/mad2.gif.

[Panathinaikos2]

I lost my sig with the PAO-Ajax ticket and the Hellenic flag too http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/images/smilies/mad2.gif.Yea that was the best sig ever as well :D Too bad you lost it :mad2:

[philipas]

I don't give a shit what some Americans say. The foustanella is part of our heritage and I will never be ashamed that my heroes of the revolutionary war wore this. Luv the way you call us "australian" or "american" when you don't agree with us. Like when I was supporting Australia and didn't they do wonderfully in the WC, but you said they were sooooo shit. At least PAO was sensible enough to commend Australia.

Now, even I wore the foustanella with my brothers and cousins when we were kids. A photo ritual all Greek-Australians had to do, as well as get baptised in the Greek church, learn the language at greek school, dancing, pimata and go to church at easter, walk around the block at night with the epitaphio, then anastasi and of cource the big, fat Greek meal on the Sunday. But nah, we're Australian and American...:rolleyes:

Anyway, don't need your acceptance :yuck: , most Greeks consider us adelphia...

[Panathinaikos2]

Luv the way you call us "australian" or "american" when you don't agree with us. Like when I was supporting Australia and didn't they do wonderfully in the WC, but you said they were sooooo shit. At least PAO was sensible enough to commend Australia.Nah you don't understand. I was actually quoting Poutismalakas post since he said that the Americans in his area made jokes about it so no need to be mad :rolleyes:

[PAO_HELLAS]

Luv the way you call us "australian" or "american" when you don't agree with us. Like when I was supporting Australia and didn't they do wonderfully in the WC, but you said they were sooooo shit. At least PAO was sensible enough to commend Australia.

Now, even I wore the foustanella with my brothers and cousins when we were kids. A photo ritual all Greek-Australians had to do, as well as get baptised in the Greek church, learn the language at greek school, dancing, pimata and go to church at easter, walk around the block at night with the epitaphio, then anastasi and of cource the big, fat Greek meal on the Sunday. But nah, we're Australian and American...:rolleyes:

Anyway, don't need your acceptance :yuck: , most Greeks consider us adelphia...

I am always calling you a Greek-Australian, not just an Australian. I think this is what you consider your self.

Even if you are 100% Greek physically (with both parents Greek), you are not 100% Greek mentally, as you were born and raised in Australia. I did not said you are not Greek at all, as I know the majority of the diaspora Greeks are keeping the customs.

[poutismalakas]

I lost my sig with the PAO-Ajax ticket and the Hellenic flag too http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/images/smilies/mad2.gif.
We both know why we lost our sig but I'm not in the mood to talk about it nor is this the proper place!

[philipas]

Nah you don't understand. I was actually quoting Poutismalakas post since he said that the Americans in his area made jokes about it so no need to be mad :rolleyes: Fair enough. But you shouldn't be surprised that some foreigners take the mickey out of the foustanella. I mean kilt, stockings, little pom poms on the shoes and the hat. Doesn't quite look like the brave warrior outfit. Anyway, for its time and the legendary fighters that wore it makes it noteworthy. Ignorance is what causes people to laugh. They don't know the historical context. Same as here in Australia, when foreigners think of Aboriginal people as being primitive. They may look that way through western eyes, but if you discover their culture you will see some very progressive practices.

BTW: Why are we chatting here. This thread should have been in the Greek forum...

[Panathinaikos2]

Like I said I don't really care what some foreigner thinks of our foustanella :rolleyes: It's part of our culture and i'm not at all embarressed that we have worn foustanelles in the past.

[Albanessi_$]

I have been told by my friends that Fustanella, had irish origine, but I know that white Fustanella was allways Albanian´native dress for centuries..
Some other friends of mine also told me that the fustanella looks like "GAY" :D:(they joking around)
that i should i ignore and stuff, But i dont care fustanella was a clit for warriors, and braviors
dont forget Our Hero Gjergj Kastrioti "Skenderbeu" Wore it together with his Soldiers, and resist the ottoman turks for whole his life ca 37 years....



:smoking: :smoking:

[Panathinaikos2]

The foustanella is Greek and has been in Greece for thousands of years.

[Panathinaikos2]

"In discussions of Aegean costume, considerable attention has been paid to the change in the representation of presumed Aegean natives (the Keftiu) in several Egyptian tomb paintings of the 18th Dynasty. The earlier tombs depict men wearing breechcloths with codpieces and backflaps; the later tombs show men in kilts. The date of this change has usually been thought to coincide with a shift & power in the Aegean at-the end of LM IB, from Minoans (with codpieces) to Mycenaeans (in kilts)."

[ARBANITAI]

Give me a break did they said that ?? :lol:

well the irish clit looks more gay then ever, it is short and colourfull clit, typically like female skirt.. :lol:

The albanian one is white and long..;)

[Panathinaikos2]

"But both breechcloths and kilts are worn on Crete
at least from MM II times, and neither costume is generally worn by early Mycenaeans. Breechcloths with codpieces characterize certain types of Minoan activity (hunting, farming, bull-leaping, and ritual performances),
whereas shorts appear in early Mycenaean scenes of hunting and fighting, replaced in LH IIIA-B frescoes by tunics; most Mycenaean representations of kilts are quite late (LH IIIB)."

(note that "Middle Minoan II = 1900-1720 B.C
"Late Helladic IIIB" = 1300-1200 BC)

[Panathinaikos2]

I have been told by my friends that Fustanella, had irish origine:lol: :lol:

[ARBANITAI]

"But both breechcloths and kilts are worn on Crete
at least from MM II times, and neither costume is generally worn by early Mycenaeans. Breechcloths with codpieces characterize certain types of Minoan activity (hunting, farming, bull-leaping, and ritual performances),
whereas shorts appear in early Mycenaean scenes of hunting and fighting, replaced in LH IIIA-B frescoes by tunics; most Mycenaean representations of kilts are quite late (LH IIIB)."

(note that "Middle Minoan II = 1900-1720 B.C
"Late Helladic IIIB" = 1300-1200 BC)

Take it easy pana, I will not judge which exactly one of us found the fustanella, many Illyrian statues were founded in Albania, showing men with Fustanella on, not just the ones in durres, a few others were founded in Shkodra, and northern albania region So thats mean defently that Albanians wore the Fustanella for more then 2500 years...But with that i dont want to say anything about the greek fustanella, besides Illyrians and Greeks lived next to eachother for more then 3000 years, and i dont get suprised because we both had fustanella..;)

Mbane fustanellen sa doni:D

[Panathinaikos2]

My quotes proves alot about the foustanella and its origin. Besides the Ancient Greeks have worn the foutstanellas since even before Mycenian times.

[poutismalakas]

WHO CARES WHO INVENTED THE FOUSTANELLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a piece of clothing!!

[Panathinaikos2]

WHO CARES WHO INVENTED THE FOUSTANELLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a piece of clothing!!Yea this is getting preety pointless :D

[benfica64]

Yea this is getting preety pointless :D I always have a laugh when you post, never mention it but I think i will now. After over 1,700 posts you still havent learned how to say/spell " pretty " (lol) you always spell it "preety " I thought before you reached 2000 posts i should tell you how you spell "pretty " correctly. 2 ts not 2 Es

[poutismalakas]

I always have a laugh when you post, never mention it but I think i will now. After over 1,700 posts you still havent learned how to say/spell " pretty " (lol) you always spell it "preety " I thought before you reached 2000 posts i should tell you how you spell "pretty " correctly. 2 ts not 2 Es
LOL... but I'm sure that if you spoke another language that you would have issues with certain words and grammar at times.

[benfica64]

LOL... but I'm sure that if you spoke another language that you would have issues with certain words and grammar at times. you just may have a valid point.

[Sandro1]

I always have a laugh when you post, never mention it but I think i will now. After over 1,700 posts you still havent learned how to say/spell " pretty " (lol) you always spell it "preety " I thought before you reached 2000 posts i should tell you how you spell "pretty " correctly. 2 ts not 2 Es

Yes i have noticed that too :lol:
also i dont know if you have noticed his spelling for "edited" is "editted" is quit a famous qoute of him :D :lol:

[philipas]

Yes i have noticed that too :lol:
also i dont know if you have noticed his spelling for "edited" is "editted" is quit a famous qoute of him :D :lol: Your English isn't much better and you live in the US. 'quite a famous quote of his', is how it goes, so don't talk.

[Sandro1]

Your English isn't much better and you live in the US. 'quite a famous quote of his', is how it goes, so don't talk.

haha good one teacher :lol: I appreciate it, but why are you here, this is non of ur business:lol:

[philipas]

Now now, don't be like that. You know the forum is open to all. Ever heard of free speech and democracy? Read the Greek philosophers, Plato, Aristotle, Epicurus and you'll find out.

[Panathinaikos2]

haha good one teacher :lol: I appreciate it, but why are you here, this is non of ur business:lol:And I suppose this is how you spell none huh?

[Panathinaikos2]

Your English isn't much better and you live in the US. 'quite a famous quote of his', is how it goes, so don't talk.Thanks Phillipas :)

[Sandro1]

Now now, don't be like that. You know the forum is open to all. Ever heard of free speech and democracy? Read the Greek philosophers, Plato, Aristotle, Epicurus and you'll find out.

yes I surely believe you need time to learn all these ! hurry up

get a life, u need one :)