How to survive 660 years of terrorism and 60 years of Communism [Archive]

View Full Version : How to survive 660 years of terrorism and 60 years of Communism

RED-STAR

03-29-2006, 05:02 AM

Just when you thought the political discussions have stopped, i came across an interesting article, good read.

How to Survive 600 Years of Terrorism and 60 Years of Communism
By Mary Mostert (03/20/2006)

For the past 10 years I have been writing, off and on, about the disintegration of Yugoslavia and that has led to me having a large and growing number of Serb readers. I got interested in the Serb part of the story because I noticed, during the Bosnian war, that CNN never, NOT ONCE, ever had a Serb spokesman on any news program. That struck me as rather odd, since it was the Serbs who were our ONLY allies in the Balkans during World War 1, when approximately half the Serbian male population was killed, and World War II, when, according to the Holocaust Museum, over a million Serbs, Jews and Roma (gypsies) were slaughtered in Croatian concentration camps, such as Jasenovac.

The cruelty of the Ustashe guards horrified even the Germans, who used the more humane killing method of poison gas than was used on the Serbs. After the war German domination was merely traded for Soviet domination. This happened largely because a British double agent fed lies about who was REALLY on the Allied side to Winston Churchill. At Yalta Churchill insisted on the Allies supporting Josip Broz Tito, a communist, in spite of eye-witness accounts by hundreds of American Air Force pilots and crewmen who knew which group was really supporting the Americans and British. When shot down over Yugoslavia during WWII, over 500 American pilots were saved by the Serbs under General Mihailovich.

Muslims ruled the area for more than 600 years under the Ottoman Turkish Empire, while often trying to force the Serbian Orthodox population to convert to Islam. The rulers of the Austrian Empire often tried to force the Serbs to recognize the Pope. Yet, most of the Serbs maintained their loyalty to the Serbian Orthodox Church throughout hundreds of years of persecution, without trying to force others into their religion when they came to power.

In 1996, the latest chapter in the misinformation about Serbs was being written when President Bill Clinton, OK'ed Terrorist Financed Weapons to Bosnia Muslims. Our media was bombarding us with stories about how the Serbs were killing Albanians – but never told the Americans that the Kosovo Liberation Army, (KLA) until 1998 when Clinton took it off, was on the U.S. State Department list of the major terrorist organizations in the world.

By 1999, the KLA, which was trained and armed by Iran and Osama bin Laden was the source of the stories that Milosevic, and the Serbs, were committing genocide. Also the Albanian lobby in Washington, which appears to have been financed largely by the drug trade in Kosovo and some wealthy Albanian-Americans, was circulating false stories to the media about the “Serbs killing 100,000” Albanians in Kosovo. Based on those reports, American airplanes bombed Belgrade and Kosovo for 78 days.

After the bombing, scores of forensic experts were sent to Kosovo to unearth mass graves containing the bodies of those 100,000 to 200,000 Albanians were buried in. No mass graves were found. The leader of the Spanish forensic team reported after a thorough investigation: "I calculate that the final figure of dead in Kosovo will be 2,500 at the most, including lots of strange deaths that can't be blamed on anyone."

Yet, with the death of Slobodan Milosevic we still are getting cartoons and stories about the “200,000 people” that Milosevic supposedly killed. Only - no one could find the bodies. On the other hand, in Iraq, where the media never even TALKED about genocide, so far 300,000 bodies HAVE been found in mass graves. Meanwhile the media tells us Saddam Hussein wasn't all that bad because he didn’t have “weapons of mass destruction” and the Democrats want to impeach President Bush because there was no reason to invade Iraq. It was a good thing that we bombed Belgrade for 78 days over 2500 deaths but 300,000 bodies in mass graves in Iraq is no big deal?

In ten years of communicating with Serbs from all over the world, I have often tried to get them to give me more background to try to figure out how they have managed to hold fast to their faith during 600 years of Muslim persecution, the Holocaust and 60 years of Communism. Most of them seem puzzled by my questions. But, from their answers it appears that their faith in both their God and their nation has been nurtured and has survived within their strong family units, in SPITE of what was happening in their country. Except for a brief period of time between the fall of Turkish domination and the rise of communism, they have never lived in a nation that had freedom of religion. Yet, their churches and their faith have survived.

Finally, this week, following the death of their last communist president, Slobodan Milosevic, one of my readers, Alex, who lives in Belgrade, wrote a succinct history of Serb experience in living with terrorism for hundreds of years. In this time of rising worldwide terrorism, this is a story the American people need to hear. Neither Alex or any of the other Serbs I've communicated with in the past 10 years EVER seemed to cast themselves in the role of "victim" which has become so common among minorities and special interest groups in the USA and among Bosnian Muslims and Albanians who have e-mailed me. Yet, no group of Americans or the Albanians and Bosnian Muslims who claim to be "victims" of persecution EVER had to face the kind of persecution the Serbs have experienced, from both radical Muslims and radical Christians, and even from America when we destroyed most of the infrastructure of their country based on misinformation and outright lies. Would we be so calm about it if we lost OUR freedom of religion? Alex wrote:

“Serbs have had plenty of experience in dealing with radical Islam, what Americans now call Islamic Terror. Americans tragically lost some 3,000 lives and several buildings on Sept. 11, and promptly wanted to turn the world upside down and intervene in other countries, in pursuit of justice.

“Yet, the Serbs - who have suffered a million times more, for centuries, have not been allowed to fight the same type of terror in their own country.

“For almost 500 years the Turks had beheaded our best men, raped our prettiest women, taken our male babies and young boys and raised them as Turks - these were the yanissaries, they were even more brutal than the ordinary Turks; taken our girls to the sultan's harem, taken our lands, our harvest, our livestock, our food, burned our churches and turned them into mosques or horse stables, placed our men on sticks so that they die a suffering death...

“To give you an idea of how horrific the Turks were, here is a photo of the Cele-kula located in the southern Serbian city of Nis - Serbia's second biggest city after Belgrade. The Turks had beheaded (decapitated) our men after a battle in 1809, and had made a tower out of 952 of their skulls, as a warning to the Serbs to end their rebellion. Some of the skulls had fallen out over time, but some still remain, to date. This is now a historic, cultural and sacred monument protected by the state, but also a brutal reminder of what Serbia had gone through.

“And, instead of America understanding us and supporting us, what does it do? It punishes us in every way possible and then rewards our enemies - Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo, who have ties with the very Al Qaeda the Americans are fighting. Isn't that a bit strange? Yes, very.

Cele Kula in Nis (pronounced as Chele Kula, Nish)

”Unfortunately, our Catholic and other Christian neighbors did things just as bad as the Islamists. The Croats had performed genocide of Serbs during WW 1, WW 2 (especially WW 2, for example, the death camp at Jasenovac) and again in the 1990s (for example: Operation Storm). Hitler had no better ally, than the Croatian Ustashi. The Hungarians killed us, tortured us, hanged us and mutulated us (in Macva) and placed our people under a freezing river (in the city of Novi Sad, 1942). The Germans had put us in forced labor camps, prisons, death camps, and in front of firing squads (one example: in the city of Kragujevac as many as 7,000 residents were shot in a single day).

“We also suffered greatly under the atheists - communists. It's no secret that Soviet troops had raped many women when they and Tito's partisans liberated Serbia in 1945, only to introduce us to communist terror in which the highest price was paid by Serbs.

“Serbia has had the misfortune to be placed right at the place where Europe meets the Middle East, where two Christian religions clash (Roman Catholic and Orthodox) and where Christianity in general and Islam clash. And we have survived it all, including the betrayal and attacks by what were supposed to be our historical allies.”

Distribute this among your friends and neighbors and especially to your members of Congress.

It is time that we begin to learn some of the history of past terrorism experienced by other people and other places. The Serbs have survived – but their numbers have been cut dramatically by hundreds of years of terrorism. When you read media stories about Kosovo being given to the Albanians who lied to America about a "genocide" - think about what that would really mean. Do we really want to strip Kosovo, the Serb Jerusalem, from the Serbs and give it to a group of people who have poured into Kosovo, from across the border, and used terrorism to kill or drive out its Serb population over the past 60 years? That seems to be about where the Kosovo talks are headed.

*Ed: Views are those of individual authors and not necessarily those of American Daily.

mihajlovic11

03-31-2006, 09:04 AM

Yes that is good article.
Now maybe the americans will see what these extremists are capable of.

purger

03-31-2006, 10:32 AM

Hm,article that tries to show Serbs are victims.. Mainly all written there stands but it just shows white side of serbian history. Dark side is not mentioned at all..
Sticking to Otoman empire - in which not only serbs were suffering and being beheaded. Belgrade, consider as one of the strongest strongholds in this part of europe was conquered in a blink of an eye.
WW1 - not stated that trigger for the start of WW1 was the killing of Franjo Ferdinad, austrian-hungarian crown prince made by serbian organisation "Black hand" who's gold was to separate Bosnia from Austria and affiliate it to Serbia.
WW2 - Jasenovac is a horrific moment of croatian history but Serbs done the same later on under protection of the allied forces - Bleiburg's masacre.
1990's - mass graves all over Croatia and Bosnia left by serbian forces, city of Vukovar burned to the ground, bombing of civilian targets in 90% of cases and so on and so on..
Operation: Storm - objective was to liberate croatian lands taken over by serbian paramilitary forces. It took 3 days to liberate all the land, including historical croatian town of Knin. Thousands of serbs civilans fled along with their army.. The ones that left, most of them were safe. Sure some of them were killed but not in the numbers some were trying to show..
Kosovo - this is the subject were my opinion is that Serbs are suffering from it. Nato bombing was hypocrisy. If needed of bombing, it should have been done in the 90's on serbian occupation army in Croatia and Bosnia, not on serbian cities..

With wings spread high of a dream of "Greater Serbia", Serbia is now facing to be separated from Kosovo and Monte Negro aswell.
Sorry guys, but your historical leaders aimed to high, missed and now people of Serbia are facing the shrinking of a country..

DRUZE TITO NA ONOME SVIJETU, ETO SLOBE NOSI TI STAFETU. ODE SLOBO KOD ALIJE I FRANJE, NE BIL OPET NAPRAVILI SRANJE! :D

Michael Buckley

03-31-2006, 03:13 PM

[QUOTE=RED-STAR]The cruelty of the Ustashe guards horrified even the Germans, who used the more humane killing method of poison gas than was used on the Serbs.

I have read about the massacre of Serbs,Gypsies and Jews by the puppet Ustashe concentration camp guards.But to quote that the "Germans" used "the more humane killing method of poison gas was used on the Serbs." beggars belief.The Nazis were in no way humane.I know that you the poster did not state that personally.:shocked:

Gerasim

03-31-2006, 03:20 PM

I have read about the massacre of Serbs,Gypsies and Jews by the puppet Ustashe concentration camp guards.But to quote that the "Germans" used "the more humane killing method of poison gas was used on the Serbs." beggars belief.The Nazis were in no way humane.I know that you the poster did not state that personally.:shocked:

You're right, The Nazi's wheren't human, or weren't worthy to be called human, but the Ustasa where far worse then Nazi's
that's what the author means

Ustasa's where animals who killed on a terrifying discusting way, even more discusting then the Nazi's :shocked: :sad:
Sad but true

Milos_

03-31-2006, 05:33 PM

Franjo Ferdinand
:ronaldo: classic:lol:

its an o.k article cant really complain it says nothing negative about serbs:D

things are pretty bad now,people are leaving the country in large numbers(55,000 serbs live in Hamilton:Din 1991 80,000 serbs lived in Canada now the number is above 300,000).the birth rate in serbia is extremly low.Serbs in Kosovo cant even leave their homes without an armed escort.Serbs in Bosnia are lobless,have no food and are represted by idiots.And serbs in Croatia.....dont even get me started with that:D

Things are bad but we've had it worse,if the serbian culture,language,religion and people could survive 500 years of ottoman rule we can survive this

purger

04-01-2006, 10:26 AM

purger

04-01-2006, 10:30 AM

And serbs in Croatia.....

Got bitch-slaped last weekend in lower amateur league football match, cro vs serbian village in Slavonija.. Serbs started to tease on nacionalistic basics on the stands and got beaten.. :D

Fenerliyim

04-01-2006, 04:52 PM

“For almost 500 years the Turks had beheaded our best men, raped our prettiest women, taken our male babies and young boys and raised them as Turks - these were the yanissaries, they were even more brutal than the ordinary Turks; taken our girls to the sultan's harem, taken our lands, our harvest, our livestock, our food, burned our churches and turned them into mosques or horse stables, placed our men on sticks so that they die a suffering death...

“To give you an idea of how horrific the Turks were, here is a photo of the Cele-kula located in the southern Serbian city of Nis - Serbia's second biggest city after Belgrade. The Turks had beheaded (decapitated) our men after a battle in 1809, and had made a tower out of 952 of their skulls, as a warning to the Serbs to end their rebellion. Some of the skulls had fallen out over time, but some still remain, to date. This is now a historic, cultural and sacred monument protected by the state, but also a brutal reminder of what Serbia had gone through.

So funny how u guys just lie through your teeth. U guys have a very good imagination

Centarfor9

04-01-2006, 05:00 PM

boris4c

04-01-2006, 06:14 PM

So funny how u guys just lie through your teeth. U guys have a very good imagination
first of all its not us that said that its some woman called mary mostert that wrote the article

Annis

04-05-2006, 04:32 PM

oh this is a truly serb propaganda trying to make them selfes innocent and victims when we all know they killed ppl in croatia, and a lot more in Bosnia and last in kosovo all inoccent ppl, serbs did a huge genocide, and that had to stopped, and If Nato wont bombed you, i m sure you will keep massacring innocent ppl in kosovo, so Nato did a good job actually they saved thousand of lifes

The KLA has never ever had anything to do with terrorizm, they were freedom fighters who fought for their land and freedom.......

Now Kla is the Kosovo national Army, and is recognize from everyone, and they have nothing with terrorizm to do while they cooperate with Nato eruope and Usa, (the countries who actually fight terrorizm..

another thing, you said kosova was serb ? how are u going to state that ?

you serb are slavic ppl who invade balcans in early 7th century so technically has Kosova and the rest of balcans never was yours, It was Illyrian land which were the ancient albanians...

So the fact is that u invade kosovo, and now ur trying to say its yours !
pretty stupid right !

boris4c

04-05-2006, 08:18 PM

lets not return in the bronze age now, and illyrians had nothing to do with islam or albanians first of all

"huge" genocide, what do u call a genocide? look man, first the estimations were 300,000 dead, then 278,000, then it became 250,000, then it suddenly became 107,000 and now the number is 94,000-102,000 and in a few years the number will be somewhere around 50,000. Of all the dead people in the yugoslavia war, around 1/3 were serbs so stop crying. There are around 55 wars that had more deaths than 100,000 and 95% of those wars, well we never heard a word about them (e.g. Biafran War which made 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 deaths). The Kosovo war made around 7,000 deaths (of which NATO killed at least 2,000). 2,000 serbs were killed in the kosovo war. those are wars.

this is truly serb propaganda? i wonder who has been making propaganda in the last 10 years

if we talk about "genocide". the biggest one occured in china with 40,000,000 (1949-1975). The 10th biggest genocide ever is actually jasenovac where at least half a million people were killed, almost all of them serbs. 12 million deaths because of the nazis overall, what happened about that genocide. The armenian massacre of 3 million, nobody heard of. The rwanda genocide around 950,000 deaths, what happened about those people. The bosnian "genocide" is ranked 3rd smallest so called genocide ever. etc etc etc so dont even name the word genocide, or even less huge genocide.

Ero

04-05-2006, 11:42 PM

I F******!!!!!!!! hate this jasenovac bullshit for f**** sakes serbs saiid 80 000 first then 300 000 and then 700 000 and then in this article 1 000 000 for ***k sakes its all lies. Jasenovac was the third largest in all of jugoslavija behind two serbian camps in serbia. A lot of those names on the jasenovac lists are croatian peoples grandparents who were killed by serbs or werent even killed but they are still on that list. How come the number of serbs killed goes up every ***king year but the bleiburg massacre number goes down. Please anyone who is not from the former yugoslav republics dont read srpska mreza and other serb propaganda sites and then think its the truth.

Ero

04-05-2006, 11:46 PM

A perfect example of this lieing shit wa today i was reading a ww2 book and it said
"the partisan troups lead by tito went into a firce battle with the croatian ustachi. Many atrocities commited from both sides especially from the long haired bearded croatian ustachi"
cetniks were the bearded fags and they call us ustachi and it said nothing about bleiburg

Ero

04-05-2006, 11:56 PM

You're right, The Nazi's wheren't human, or weren't worthy to be called human, but the Ustasa where far worse then Nazi's
that's what the author means

Ustasa's where animals who killed on a terrifying discusting way, even more discusting then the Nazi's :shocked: :sad:
Sad but true

serbs took away our freedom after hundreds of years of fighting we never got independance when we finally had our chance we were forced to join jugoslavija and we were treated like shit. If a croatian asked for more rites they were killed (example radic) and then when we got our independance NDH the serbs and commies tried to take it away from us croats

Centarfor9

04-06-2006, 12:33 AM

DRUZE TITO NA ONOME SVIJETU, ETO SLOBE NOSI TI STAFETU. ODE SLOBO KOD ALIJE I FRANJE, NE BIL OPET NAPRAVILI SRANJE! :D
smjesno
PS:smesno:lol:

Lance Knight

04-06-2006, 01:09 AM

congratualtions red star u are a spammer

boris4c

04-06-2006, 03:21 AM

listen man,

11,000 were killed in sajmiste camp
24,000 in banjica camp

those were the 2 biggest probably in serbia..

jasenovac was 500,000 (...)

Ero

04-06-2006, 06:02 AM

jasenovac was 500,000 (...)

prove it please, get the official list with half a million and more names on it

Annis

04-06-2006, 11:13 AM

lets not return in the bronze age now, and illyrians had nothing to do with islam or albanians first of all
.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_albaniaancient.htm

[B]Wrong! Albanians are modern Illyrians and that i have Million of facts for you, The world, europe and even "Wikipedia" said that Albanians are descents of the ancient "europe" Illyrians. The illyrian language been considered to be the same with the today Albanian language, and more and more facts about thát..

Instead serbs are not authoctone ppl of balcans, they invade balcans only in the 7th century, Slavs did occupayed a big piece of the balcan land, like thracian and illyrian land.

Kosovo and the region, which serbs claim to be the "heart of Serbia" and to be theirs, really doznt make any sense while that never was theirs, especially kosovo and the region around was pure Illyrian/Albanian land, which later been occupayed by serbo-montenegrins..

boris4c

04-06-2006, 08:41 PM

did illyrians have anything to do with islam? obviously not.. name me some regions in of the world that weren't "invaded"

SOUTH AMERICA - invaded by spaniards and portuguese
CENTRAL AMERICA - invaded by spaniards
NORTH AMERICA - invaded by french and british
OCEANIA - invaded by british
AFRICA - invaded by many countries (e.g. france, belgium, britain, portugal, etc)

as u can see.. regions that werent "invaded" are almost non-existant in the world, but still.. central america, south america are SPANISH, brazil is PORTUGUESE, usa is BRITISH, canada is french/british.. people dont care who was there in the bronze age man.. canada was discovered in 1534.. thats not a very long time ago, while serbs were in kosovo in the 7th century as u say.. so i dunno what ur point is..

Milos_

04-06-2006, 08:49 PM

Centarfor9

04-06-2006, 09:21 PM

There is a difference between Albanians and Muslims.
Albanians might be Muslim but they are still Albanians.
Kosovo and Montenegro will become independent so there won’t be any more problems.
Unless Serbia attacks Kosovo’s and Montenegrins people again.

Centarfor9

04-06-2006, 09:24 PM

Is Vojvodina part of Serbia or is it still independent part of SCG?

Milos_

04-06-2006, 09:44 PM

wow i didnt understand one word of what you just said:Dbut ill try

Albanians might be muslims but they are still Albanians?i dont get what you mean...obviously they're still Albanians,thats like saying Serbs might be Orthodox but they are still Serbs:redeyes:

When did Serbs attack Montenegro:confused:

80% of the people in Vojvodina are Serbs so again WTF are you talking about?

Centarfor9

04-06-2006, 09:59 PM

You asked him when was first built in Kosovo and then when was first mosque built.
That doest prove that Serbs were first in Kosovo just because Albanians didn't build a mosque before.
PS: They are ancestors of Illyrians (so thy were first there)

Serbs attacked Kosovo and Albanian people before, and they have attacked Albanian people in Montenegro also. Just because there wasn't labeled war don't conclude that people of Montenegro weren't attacked. Montenegrins were often victim of chetnik raids throughout history.

However Montenegro and Kosovo will be independent and people of those countries should be prepared for Serb or chetnik attack.

Serbs of Vojvodina were always independent and they would chose independence again but i think Milosevic changed the law.

PS:Its OK. I know you don't understand you didn't live through crap, and don't know enough.

boris4c

04-06-2006, 10:30 PM

montenegrins always considered themselves as serbians before djukanovic came in.. now more than 40% of "montenegrins" consider themselves montenegrins, still doesnt change that there are more montenegrins that consider themselves serbs..

muslims in montenegro will vote for independance obviously, because later they can attack gorazde to kosovo and albania right on the serbo-montenegrin frontier as you can see on this map:

http://www.dtic.mil/bosnia/graphics/bosnia_map2.gif
now u know why gorazde is left there

as for kosovo, nobody knows the future but i can certainly assure that kosovo will not gain independence in the way it physically looks now, which means that the entire kosovo cannot be taken away from serbia

and as for vojvodina, well we never know what can happen, but i can say that there are more chances republika srpska separates from bosnia than their is that vojvodina separates from serbia

and as this smart french politician said (i cant remember his name): give serbia republika srpska if they lose kosovo, it will be fair for everybody

Ero

04-06-2006, 11:22 PM

whats a matter boris4c cant prove that 500 000 people were killed in jasenovac? k if you cant prove it dont say it like it is a fact And vojvodina is/was about 30% hungarian, 5%croatian and like 10% other and vojvodina would do better as a seperate country than if it was a part of serbia

Ero

04-06-2006, 11:24 PM

Boris why are you replying to a person that has the user name "Ustasa"?

hes replying lies anyways so it doesnt matter

Ero

04-06-2006, 11:29 PM

Serbs raised the estimated number of serbs killed in jasenovac and the ndh to overshadow what they did in bleiburg and other places throughout yuoslavija. today if someone says serbs killed 250 000 croats in the bleiburg fields they can say well those croats killed 1 000 000+ serbs when that is not proven. They have found over 190 000 bodies in maribor alone yet serbs only produced a list(some names are fake because those ppl are still alive or never died in jasenovac and a lot arent even serbian) of less than a 100 000 serbs killed from 1941-45.

boris4c

04-07-2006, 04:27 AM

listen man, its not even proven that there was 15,000 people killed in the yugoslavia war.. obviously it is impossible to even prove 10% of deaths in any war, the exact number of proven victims in jasenovac is 59,188.. why? because thats the way it works. they found the bodies of about 2,500 muslims in srebrenica and the number always mentionned is 7,000 or 8,000.. obviously nobody can prove those things exactly..

Jasenovac = 3rd largest concentration camp in WWII occupied Europe

- JASENOVAC (YASENOVATZ, from Jasen=Ash tree),a small city close to the Sava river, is the place where the third largest concentration camp of the WWII occupied Europe was placed. (...)

This is what wikipedia, the world's most trusted encyclopedia has to say:

There are various statistics and estimates about the number of victims who died in the Jasenovac camp, mainly due to a lack of exact records, and to various interests involved in estimating them. The numbers mentioned most often range in the hundreds of thousands, most of them Serbs. The definitive actual number of victims killed in the Jasenovac camp is most likely to be around 600,000, as reported in the world's top-most authority on Holocoust vicitims, the Yad Vashem Center, at http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%206358.pdf .

A progression of astonishingly high numbers were reported by various German generals as the war was progressing. Various German military commanders gave different figures for the number of Serbs, Jews and others killed on the territory of the Independent State of Croatia. They circulated figures of 400,000 Serbs (Alexander Lehr); 350,000 Serbs (Lothar Rendulic); between 300,000 (Edmund Glaise von Horstenau); more than "3/4 of million of Serbs" (Hermann Neubacher) in 1943; 600-700,000 until March 1944 (Ernst Fick ); 700,000 (Massenbach).

A report made by the new government under Tito, the National Committee of Croatia for the investigation of the crimes of the occupation forces and their collaborators, dated November 15, 1945 stated that 500,000-600,000 people were killed at the Jasenovac complex. These numbers were officially supported while Yugoslavia existed. The numbers were picked up by Israel Gutman and his Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, the Simon Wiesenthal Center and others. The proponents of these numbers were subsequently accused of artificial inflation because of the war reparations.

as u can see.. all the numbers u say serbs "invented" were actually said by german generals or other people from all over the planet. the croats estimated between 50,000 and 85,000.. why? because they are croats, obviously.. while the worlds most trusted simon wiesenthal center estimated 600,000. any other country estimated at least 500,000 (expect the USA which estimated 100,000)

which brings me to say that the best croatians could invent was the srbosjek

Ero

04-07-2006, 04:48 AM

why are these estimates so official to most ppl who write that in magazine articles and say it on the news. Why dont we just say a million croats were killed at bleiburg and 500 000 croats were killed by cetniks and partizani during ww2. But we dont and if we did no one would beleive but these insane numbers serbs come up with is apparantly true.

Ero

04-07-2006, 04:50 AM

By the jasenovac overexagerated number i guess 75 000 muslims were killed in srebrenica and 100 million jews were killed in ww2 and 15 million died in rwanda.

Ero

04-07-2006, 04:55 AM

i can see if 300-400 thousand serbs died throughout the ndh but not just in jasenovac, because half of that number would of been soldiers

ARBANITAI

04-07-2006, 11:04 AM

Boris why are you replying to a person that has the user name "Ustasa"?

albanians make me laugh:D Serbs=Slavs genius.How old is the oldest mosque in Kosovo?How old is the oldest Serbian church in Kosovo?When you figure out the answers to those questions you'll know the truth:)

p.s i like how you avoided the question about how many Albanians were killed in Kosovo...typical.

The kosovo mosque is not old, its just after the ottoman time
but the Albanian church is over 3000 years old, when you serbs were not even near the balcans...

and let me tell Milos that ALbanian were all christians ppl before the ottomans, The Albanians converted to islam during the ottoman time, but before that all albanians were roman chatholic,
so the churches you mentioned in kosovo and all over albania were albanain Churches, Albanians had nothing to do with islam before the ottoman periode, and still today while 70% of the ppl are beeing muslims yet 30 % are still christians,
and so we have still old churches in all albanian tribes, the fact is that we have lived kosovo and balcans much more time before you
as we are the ancestors of the Illyrians, and the Religion part doznt mean anything to albanians, some are muslims and some christians but we are still the real old Albanians or illyrians... however..

Annis

04-07-2006, 11:31 AM

There is big difference between Muslim and Albanian

"Islam" is just an religion..

while "ALbanian" is our race language, and nationailty we are..

Even some of us are muslims or christians, it doeznt matter we are just Albanians, religion is not more important then nationality is, and we are the ancestors of illyrians an nation of europe (balcans)

ps its true we have all been roman catholics before turks invaded our land, and so some of us changed the religion, but that doznt mean they changed nationality too, they dont get turks or arabs, their still albanians..

The curches, the fact is that we have more churches in Albania then we have mosques, because we were christian albanians, we started build mosques only after the ottoman periode, ps majority is muslims now,

and the churches in Albania and kosovo are from 2000-3000 thousand of years old, they are ancient Albanian churches..

onlysome few churches in kosovo today are serbs i know, but those churches are not too old, they are serb orthodox churches and were builden after serbian occupation over kosovo, not too older though..

the old churches are albanians, and there is not doubt that we had kosovo and the region in balcans as it was all albanian, and serbs were not even here. just look at illyrian map you will find out all Albanian tribes..

there is enough to proove u wrong and tell u, that kosovo was never serbian,
or "heart of Serbia" it is just a joke, because albanians lived in these tribes for 3000 years the ancient age, and serbs lives in balcans only for 1000-1500 years or something...

so it is a big difference! as you see...

the Albanian map, before the slavic inasion

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/a/a3/Illyria.jpg/390px-Illyria.jpg

poutismalakas

04-07-2006, 07:04 PM

how can u say that Albanian churchs are 3000 years old when Christianity is only 1973 years old??????

boris4c

04-07-2006, 08:01 PM

lol ask them

Annis

04-07-2006, 08:22 PM

how can u say that Albanian churchs are 3000 years old when Christianity is only 1973 years old??????

WTF, i didnt said i know when cristianity begins, nor i did talk about it, you may be right christianity is not that old, but even 1973 is still enough for those serbs to proove them wrong because they claim that the old kosovo churches to be theirs, and 1973 is a long time ago, and the serbs are not in balcans for more then 1000-1500 years..and they claim kosovo to be their land..

Sandro1

04-07-2006, 09:06 PM

Some of those serbs are trying to say that Kosovo and the region belongs to them, cuz they are trying to find something to say about it. but they failed in everything while the are not even authoctone balcanians,
and the region really belongs to Illyrians, (today kosovo)
Those serb invade the balcans and now some of them are saying that a land called "kosovo" is "heart of serbia" and is theirs when exactly this land has been Albanian for much longer time then they really thought..

So i think you guys, should stop lying anymore and claiming land, because you can not keep lying everytime, you serbian invaders...

Sandro1

04-07-2006, 09:13 PM

so funny u guys are :lol:

boris4c

04-07-2006, 10:07 PM

lol i dont think anybody cares here whose land it was 100000 years ago (???)

99% of the planet earth was "invaded" as u like to say, by someone else

Centarfor9

04-08-2006, 12:29 AM

montenegrins always considered themselves as serbians before djukanovic came in.. now more than 40% of "montenegrins" consider themselves montenegrins, still doesnt change that there are more montenegrins that consider themselves serbs..
same was said for croats, bosnians, kosovars and even slovens

Serbs have this idea that all FRYUG was theirs.

muslims in montenegro will vote for independance obviously, because later they can attack gorazde to kosovo and albania right on the serbo-montenegrin frontier as you can see on this map:

http://www.dtic.mil/bosnia/graphics/bosnia_map2.gif
now u know why gorazde is left there
Gorazde was bosnian and always will be. Do you know that there is a difference between bosnians and albanians.

as for kosovo, nobody knows the future but i can certainly assure that kosovo will not gain independence in the way it physically looks now, which means that the entire kosovo cannot be taken away from serbia

and as for vojvodina, well we never know what can happen, but i can say that there are more chances republika srpska separates from bosnia than their is that vojvodina separates from serbia

and as this smart french politician said (i cant remember his name): give serbia republika srpska if they lose kosovo, it will be fair for everybody
It will not be fair for 60% (of 1991) population of Croats and Bosniaks who own homes there and are in refuge and are looking to return to their homes.

Centarfor9

04-08-2006, 12:30 AM

lol i dont think anybody cares here whose land it was 100000 years ago (???)

99% of the planet earth was "invaded" as u like to say, by someone else
most recently from 1991- serbs invaded bosnian people and ethnically cleansed 49% of bosnian land through various crimes against humanity

Centarfor9

04-08-2006, 12:36 AM

serbs also attempted that in Kosovo but humanity stepped in and stopped it

boris4c

04-08-2006, 05:04 AM

ok tell me differences between montenegrins and serbians?????

...

yes thats what i thought

Annis

04-08-2006, 10:18 AM

ok tell me differences between montenegrins and serbians?????

...

yes thats what i thought

I dont know but how can it be they dont like to live with you :lol: ?

Annis

04-08-2006, 10:30 AM

same was said for croats, bosnians, kosovars and even slovens

Serbs have this idea that all FRYUG was theirs.

Gorazde was bosnian and always will be. Do you know that there is a difference between bosnians and albanians.

It will not be fair for 60% (of 1991) population of Croats and Bosniaks who own homes there and are in refuge and are looking to return to their homes.

Yes your so right when you say that, because serbs claimed slovenian, croatian, bosnian and even kosova land..

yes of course there is difference between Albanians and bosnians, there is different culture, tradition, language, Albanians are illyrians, and Bosnians are different nation btw the word "bosnia" comes from the illyrian word "bosona" which now in Albanian means something like "runing water".. :)

anyway who were the ancestors of the bosnians and where did they came from ?
because the today bosnia land was illyrian in ancient time, and i wonder where you guys came from onto balcans ? :)

Ero

04-08-2006, 06:38 PM

anyway who were the ancestors of the bosnians and where did they came from ?
because the today bosnia land was illyrian in ancient time, and i wonder where you guys came from onto balcans ? :)

converted serbs and croats during ottoman rule not that bogomil crap

boris4c

04-08-2006, 07:17 PM

exactly

and u will see that the referendum will prove that montenegro is going to stay with serbia.. its not the montenegrins that dont wanna live with serbians.. its the muslims whose only goal is to decapitate yugoslavia in the smallest pieces possible

in the former yugoslavia, croats never considered themselves serbs, nor did bosnian muslims, nor did slovenes, nor did macedonians, but montenegrins did

milo djukanovic is, at the moment, the biggest criminal in the area of former yugoslavia.. all he did is illegally export-import drugs, cigarettes, and he is so rich because the americans gave him money to make montenegro separate from serbia.. the only reason some montenegrins consider themselves montenegrins is because of djukanovic who convinced them that they are different people (i dunno how).. he convinced them that they are going to join the EU right away and stuff so people think they are going to live better in an independent montenegro

the montenegro government buys their voters. the video they discovered last week is the proof itself.. the man in the video has an electricty bill to pay which is very late, the government offers to pay his bill if he votes for an independent montenegro.. (...)