Protests and Demonstrations over Cartoons???

[Sebastian]

Protests and Demonstrations over Cartoons???
...Last night i was watching CNN and i was surprised when i saw that these Muslim fundamentalists were burning the Danish and Norvey flags:confused:i was confused why are they doing that,i mean no one hates them they are the most polite and the most civilized countries on the planet with the rest of the scandinavians...I mean one can understand why they hate America,but Norway???i was so interested to see the reason for this outburst...there was these dudes with blankets on their heads,with Kalashnikov rifles and they were firing on the European Embassy in GAZA i think...i couldnt wait to hear the reason for this and when i did...:shocked:i couldnt believe that these people were ready to kill for cartoons...:confused:...i dont think the Christians or aspecialy the Budists would react in this manner at least not for a cartoon,i mean they're not that better,they are religious fanatics too and their brain has been indoctrinated but this is outrageous...the fact that the muslims are living in the Medievil periode is their problem.we are all human beings and theres a law for freedom of speech...The scandinavians are so advanced that they seem like Alien civilisation from the Science Fiction movies to these people...they live in intellectual Darkness and this religious prison...the muslims should blame them selves and their methods for this and how the world perceive them...I hear them saying all the time that the Islam is a peacfull religion and then i see some of them executing innocent people in the most desturbing and the most perverse way possible...i havent seen a Budist or a Cristian to go in a buss full of children and desintegrate them in to leptons.what kind of method is this and how can these people believe that they can go to heaven afer not just by killing themselves,which is the biggest Sin in all religions,but above that slaughtering innocent children?Are they under Crack or what...i mean Hijacking a plane with 250 passangers and hiting a Scyscraper with all of them is some sick shit...I dont generalise all muslims i mean Mohammed Ali was a muslim but he was a good man and a lot of muslim people...but they should become more aware of the fact that with their principles they dont contribute to the human civilisation,aspecily not for our intellectual evolution..why would someone throw his intellect,mind and life for some man who said absurdly naive things a Milenia ago:confused:man who was a PROPHET as much as MOSES was and as much as JESUS was the son of GOD:rolleyes:is it right to treat the most gorgeous creatures-the women like that???I saw on the news that fundamentalists cut off some young women's heads,becouse they didnt covered their faces:sick:what the hell is this damn it...how can a father allow that for his daughter,to walk arround like a blanket???Why do they allow all of that religious nonsense to construct their Social System??? ...I understand that freedom of speach is one thing and ofending someone feelings other,but hey by burning the Danish embassy,kidnaping atempts and trying to frighten certain authorities with a Kallashnikov is so uncivilized...do they think that DENMARK is afright of them???they dont give a damn and probably other similar things will fallow...when the musilms can get so angry and furious about one ridiculous drawing then what about something more vivid...this trivial incident may transform into global conflict and war...i mean this is like when the Protestants and the Catholics face each other,they massacre themselves for no particular reason...this RELIGION thing may indicate the World War 3...the Christians are slowely excluding the religious influence in their society and starting to take matters in their own hands,consciously and responsible,instead of bowing down to some incredibly naive and absurdly abstract mythology...which in Practic works just as well as Komunism:lol:you know distant future generations will laugh to RELIGIOUS fanatics,regardles of their religion,like we are laughing now to the Ancient Greeks:Dbut i guess there will be always weak and frightened ignorants who would ask someone else to "give"happines,good health,love,wealth,someone else to pass their egsams on colege,rather then do that by them selves:rolleyes:there was this orthadox book with prayers and check this out,there was this bizzare and ludacrous PRAYER BEFORE an EGSAM...i mean to what levels human supidity goes...these ORTHADOW Cristians are probably the most ignorant creatures alive...im aspecially worried about the muslims...they are going another step on the "FANATIC"ladder...these people doesnt understand what DEMOCRACY means,cos they have been living in Religious Dictature...they just have to open their minds so that their parents can "wash" those few active neurons and brain cells,when they are little...You can read the Bible,Tora,Curan or the Vedas to increase you're Wisdom and knowledge but i can newer try to hurt someone just becouse he offended Jesus,Budda or Mohammad:confused:people who arent among the living for a Millenia ago and who wont get angry about anything...I would let all these three to defend them selves if they can:D...Why does people always have to believe in something else instead of themselves.RELIGION is actualy a Time Bomb it will explode eventualy Another proof why should Religion become a bad and distant memory instead of a Perverse and Destorted Reality...it causes only hatred,ignorance and Evil...95%of the people shouldnt even read the"holly"books,although theres an Abyss full of Wisdom "materialised" through allegories,methaphores and analogies,these Primates will perceive all that literaly and then you have an ignorant,brainless,fully armed,operational and the most sophisticated Robot who will obey every absurd request of his"Guru"...Im not only against the Muslims,but against all religions...Ther's nothing pecfull in them...

[Ryan27]

Very interesting read elcino. I'm a government/political science major at my school, so I look at things like this a lot. I'm actually in a class that focuses on suicide terrorism (mostly muslim). http://www.utexas.edu/features/2006/terrorism/ is an article about the professor. He says a lot of these terrorists may speak of Islam, but they're really politically movitated and not necessarily religious fanatics. Its an interesting analysis, anyway.

you're right though, the response to the cartoon was a bit much. there is just too much sensitivity, and not enough willingness to find a solution. I realize GW Bush doesn't help with this either, but lol lets not get into a discussion about him...

[ulster21]

Good statement elcino. But can I recommend one thing, USE PARAGRAPHS :lol:

[Sebastian]

Very interesting read elcino. I'm a government/political science major at my school, so I look at things like this a lot. I'm actually in a class that focuses on suicide terrorism (mostly muslim). http://www.utexas.edu/features/2006/terrorism/ is an article about the professor. He says a lot of these terrorists may speak of Islam, but they're really politically movitated and not necessarily religious fanatics. Its an interesting analysis, anyway.

you're right though, the response to the cartoon was a bit much. there is just too much sensitivity, and not enough willingness to find a solution. I realize GW Bush doesn't help with this either, but lol lets not get into a discussion about him...

...Ryan dont mention that Mosquito intelect Bush please...:lol:....yeah it's too much for those cartoons...i've read today that the first man died in those demonstartion....it's obvious that there's a political influence there...they are using those poor people as a weapon...they have lived in a relligious embrione for all of their lives...something like the Matrix concept...and it's o easy to manipulate that sort of mind...it's like in the medievil periode when they burned milions of innocent women becouse they were"witches"...RELIGION is HOPE for the HOPELESS that['s all i can say...that's my saying for this situation....

[Sebastian]

Good statement elcino. But can I recommend one thing, USE PARAGRAPHS :lol:

...man will you just shut up with those damn paragraphs....you haVe said that in at least three threads...:D....

[ulster21]

...man will you just shut up with those damn paragraphs....you haVe said that in at least three threads...:D....

:yell: Learn how to fu**ing write

[Sebastian]

:yell: Learn how to fu**ing write

...if those damn paragraphs mean so much for you than dont read my threads pal...but dont tell me how to write...i have been doing that for a wery...wery long time...

[Ryan27]

haha yea, elcino has a trademark writing style. it would be weird if he changed it...

[devious]

See now, this is what have just happened, you know Ramy form along time now and we seem to agree on many things, but did you bother asking me before what are the things that I dont like so you would try to avoid doing it? and that you`ll do your best avoiding doing them atleast infront of me or do it behind my back so we all can live in peace? no you actully didnt even give a damn or cared! that`s what actully ppl like you (ppl that dont have religions) always like to do cause in small words they dont have lines or limits in thier behaviours, they talk about free speach and infact they invented this 2 words to say whatever to whoever with respect or no respect beacue they THINK that they are right never even thought that they could be wrong all of this under the name of free speach! very good plan IMO, but it realy doesnt work when you try to convince someone that his belives are just nothing but a fantasy land and you draw them to him on a silly paper and show it to the all world: see ppl, this is Muhammed the prophet who fooled the world, the main of the evil and distruction, see ppl we are right and they are wrong" this is completly stuped and ignorant and have nothing, nothing ot do with the free speach, this is called RACISM, this could also been called ATHEISM or also HATING a religion.. you have the right to show your thoughs but you should realize that there are lines that you shouldnt cross avoiding problems, but if you do cross those lines under the name of free speach, this is so stuped.. and this was the main reason behind the bigest wars in history.

seems like we arnt agree on everything but in football elcino, but the only thing I agree on iin this religion thing is the way ppl think, that`s wrong buring the Dannsih embassy that was so stuped move that I cant understand or explain but however did this are so religious ppl that actully religious undersatnding the religion wrong.. they got the all idea wrong.. and this thing is different from a country to another, in Egypt we didnt have such stuped reaction because we arnt Indonese or Afganstan although we are all Muslims, so you cant blam the all Muslims for the stuped reactions of a stuped men how you think that they represnt the 1 billion Muslim living on the planet, so when you say that all Muslims are brutual animals who kill themselves to kill others or to ride a plan and kill thousands of innocent ppl or whatever that would be sound like Hitler talking, I mean a totaly RACISM point of view, and cant help but to put a HYPOCRITE when I found you saying they arnt all bad but there are good like Muhammed Ali or others.. those ppl that do the bad things like killing innocent like el queda son of bitches or others are just politican ass holes who ***ken do anything possible to have the power under the name of Islam, so they dont in any case represent the religion, so you think wrong, but but I dont blam you cause ppl like you only look to the picture form one side of view, you watch the CNN.. but did you watch Eljazeera news or el Arabia news before? I relay dont think so! CNN with pleasure in every news about any Muslime country will try as possible to show you the darkest side so they succefuly put the picture that they want you to see about Islam. it`s another very long story.. in few words.. just dont belive everything you hear from the press..
I wouldnt even try to make you understand how could a person feel when someone himulate a something special to him, cause you dont belive in anything, you have no belives, so you wont understand what the love of a religion or beliveing in something like that means, you have no idea.. also when they draw Jesus making fun of him it didnt matter for the christians cause there are many jesus around the world, there is a jesus that is God, other says that he is Jesus son of God and others say he is only a prophet, so when they mde fun of him christians didnt give a shot claiming the paper is making fun of the other`s Jesus.. that was a pathetic funny story infact, inthe world there is not a one christian religion, or even jews.. they are many, but in Islam ther is only one God and one propjhet and he is Muhammed, so when you make fun of Muhammed you make fum of the all religion , you make fum of an entire nation and you make fun of God, and for any Muslime in any place in the world this is something unacceptable and muslims cant just ignore cause it`s not just a cartoon as you think.. it`s like grabbing all ppl`s thoughts, lives, opinions, families, traditions and throw them in a garbage by drawing funny pictures of how stuped is this in the name of ***ken free speach!
"I just want you to understand that Im not a terrorists or a mad muslim like you think we are, Im not brutual or a wide barberian animal, Im a man who asks others to respect my opinion like I do respect thiers, to respect my belives like I do respect thiers.. but if you do not respect my bilives then dont expect me to respect yours and dont judge me for my reaction cause you are the first who started the trouble so you are the one who should take all the responsability for that and should prepare for the conscounses" those was a words of a muslime in the news today from indonise.

so my friend, I was trying to give you the all picture, but what I think is a different story, do you know why? cause first Im not religious, so I see this reporter drawing those stuped draws would be normal and I would ignore it causeit`s just an opinion of a man who have so much troubles in his mind, and I dont give a damn of sick ppl, I only care for my problems that are so ***ken huge than thinking about other sick pathetic opions of ignroant journalist how do whatever to sell his paper and gain money.. but what makes me so mad at you is saying that my belief is waste of time and my thoughts are fantasies and my religion is an evil that will cause the WW3, I would have said that oh yeah yeah.. whatever, you are right... and simply ignore you like this ignorant journalist.. but I realy care for a friendship and that`s why I wrote this all post, and I hope it wasnt waste of time and you could have understand anything that Im trying to say!
and btw, this thing about covering the all woman`s face isnt in an Islam thing.. this thing that you dont know, it`s only a culture thing, like a habit,, in Islam a married woman should just cover her hair and most not all her body for a very simple reason is to be like 90% for her husbend, and not like she could wear whatever like mini jep or even the under wear onthe streets and men see her and masterbute seeing her sexy legs or chest and that by 80% brings the biggest problem of CHEATING WIVES AND HUSBENDS, although, this thing isnt a law either in Islam, cause both the wife and the husband can talk about it before marriage and they can agree that she still not cover her hair after mirrage or not, it`s up to them only.. so what you saw is just ignorant ppl living in stone ages yes I gree.. but they represent the Islam, no you are simply wrong, so wrong and you appearntly dont know and have no idea about Islam.

[philipas]

eLcino you have posted an incoherent rant that has no substance and is full of thoughtless and ignorant criticism. Amongst the Islamic generalisations you add "we are laughing at the ancient Greeks"?? heh...more like we are praising them and continually discovering how advanced they actually were.

Yes, you should use paragraphs and spell check AND post in the right forum...the Away from Soccer Forum

va bene...

[Ryan27]

philipas, this is called the 'Inter'net Cafe for a reason; its our own 'away from soccer forum'. don't come in here to our place and tell us what we can and cannot say. and elcino has over 7,000 posts. i think he can format his posts, with or without paragraphs, as he damn well pleases.

devious, it is understandable that you are upset. religion is a touchy, sensitive subject. it's very true that sometimes athiests and those of different religions will not respect or bother to understand someone else's faith. at the same time though, it often happens that people of one religion will look down at or condescend to those who don't share their faith. Just for example, there are lots of self-righteous Christians here in the States that do that all the time. elcino has an opinion on religion, and i'm willing to respect that. I may not agree with everything he says, but I don't have to. Thats the beauty of everyone being able to have free thought and think for themselves. I don't think its a stretch to say elcino got a tad carried away, but come on, thats what he does! you've been reading his posts forever now, so i'm sure you know what I mean.

some years back, I was talking to some friends about evolution. and it shocked me when a couple of them got offended, as they believed as the Bible taught them, that the world is only a few thousand years old. I wish I had been more careful that day, and respectful of their beliefs. That doesn't mean I think I was wrong, but I realize that they too genuinely believe they were right, be it because thats what they were taught all their lives or whatever.

i've re-read what elcino wrote, and I don't think he really meant that those of Islamic faith are bad people. i felt like he just meant that sometimes their religion pushes them to do things they wouldn't have done otherwise. Essentially, I think you could possibly argue that elcino is speaking out against conservatism, not necessarily just religion. like with women covering their faces, I believe you when you say its a cultural thing, not religious. But sometimes it can be so hard to tell where exactly the line is between religion and culture and society. Things can be so tangled up. I have no problem with people practicing a religion. but devious, I think you'd have to agree that somtimes, and i only mean sometimes, those that are in the power positions in a religion abuse their power and will use religion for their own ambitions. Just look at the medieval crusades, where the Pope and various kings just wanted money and wealth. Or they might tell people to obey some rule that has nothing to do with the original 'sacred' texts, simply because they are insecure about something. That article I posted suggests that its not religion that motivates 'terrorists'. Maybe you would agree with it devious, or maybe not. Either way, I think it is healthy to discuss things, as long as people are willing to respect the opinions of others.

[philipas]

philipas, this is called the 'Inter'net Cafe for a reason; its our own 'away from soccer forum'. don't come in here to our place and tell us what we can and cannot say. and elcino has over 7,000 posts. I think he can format his posts, with or without paragraphs, as he damn well pleases. Well isn't this hypocrisy in its fullest, dumbest expression... :lol:

You speak of freedom and free speach yet you're telling me not to express my opinion in what you mistakingly call YOUR forum. Sorry mate, but I'm a member too and I'm allowed to post wherever I like on SFN, even in "your" so-called forum...:rolleyes:

Think b4 you react and post...

[devious]

I agree on the the thing about having power throw the religion and if you read what I wrote you`ll see the I DISGRACE ppl like Ben laden and others who use religion to wash youth Muslims brains and make them make stuped things like bombig and killing in the name of Islam, this is how I think and have cleared in my post, but what is your point exactly? that ppl shouldnt have a religion and shouldnt belive in God because some ignorance stuped son of bitches can use it as a source of power and authorty? so Religion is the problem now! or those ignornat ppl arnt to blam? and the religion is to blam, right? I think you should reconsider what you said because it makes no sense to me.
cause in Islam we dont accept this idea of having power thow the religion, only the christians and Jews do that, not Muslims.. and when someone do this in Islam it`s no acceptable and we disgrace this cause it break all the religion thoughts and have nothing to do with the religion porpuse, si Islma dont support giving power to one man to rule and have power and resourses to rule the world! and a simple prove is Muhammed the prophet was a poor man and he died as a poor man.. he didnt make himself a king on the nation but only a servant, and a very poor one that some days he even sleep without eating a thing.. it`s so hard for you to imagine that, but there are so much things you dont know about Islam and I`d rather not to talk about something that I totaly dont know about.
But I do also respect what you think, cause I have to only and not for anything else, we are different ppl and have different expreiance from what we have learned and where we have been raised, we have different thoughs and this was always how things been, but I belive that you can say your opinion in an mature respectable way so you force the other opinion to respect your opnion, but you dont go to ppl express your thoughs in a way like Im a smart and you are stuped, Im a clever and you are fools, Im toaly right and you are wrong.. those stuped and if things will go that way so I would prefer not to continue this converstaion at all cause it would be a stuped waste of time with the wrong ppl to discuss something sensetive to me and not just a general football crap talks, there is a big difference I hope you realize that.

[Ryan27]

Well isn't this hypocrisy in its fullest, dumbest expression... :lol:

You speak of freedom and free speach yet you're telling me not to express my opinion in what you mistakingly call YOUR forum. Sorry mate, but I'm a member too and I'm allowed to post wherever I like on SFN, even in "your" so-called forum...:rolleyes:

Think b4 you react and post...
actually, i called it 'our' forum. for Inter fans. you do realize that that is what this section is, right? i don't recall seeing you at the Inter area very often, yet you certainly felt nice and comfy coming in from out of nowhere and trying to slam a guy just because he expressed himself. and your lightweight mind missed the whole point. come and share your opinion all you want. I encourage it. if you have some intelligent analysis of the subject at hand, that's wonderful. but all you did was come in and criticize elcino for actually having some thoughts about a particular subject. you failed miserably to contribute anything substantive at all. It is fine that you disagree. however, especially as someone whom we never see around these Inter parts, I believe there are more respectful ways for you to go about it.

[philipas]

OK, well I wasn't going to intervene, but there were a few points that I found objectionable, one that I already pointed out.

the topic is not a simple one. I have my views. you could discuss it forever, but I'd prefer not to if it's going to create ill-feeling.

FORZA INTER!!!

[Ryan27]

devious, i only meant that there are so many different sides to any debate. I was not trying to suggest that there is one right answer, because I don't know that there is. I would never try to say that someone's religion was wrong, or that they shouldn't have religion. And as an American, for example, I do not blame Islam for the 9/11 attacks in NYC; but there will be others who do. It was my hope to ease the area from which elcino was coming, if only so you woudln't be so upset. And I do know some things about Islam, as I've studied bits on most religions and have seen some things firsthand from my travels. I don't know as much as you and I never will, but I know enough to respect Muhammad and to respect Islam as unique. That being said, I see buddhism and hinduism as unique too. When you say, "we are different ppl and have different experience", I totally agree with you. But I'm sure you understand that muslims are not the only ones that are different, as people from every culture and religion will claim to be different as well. This world that we share is a small one, yet people can be so varied in their perspectives. I guess its inevitable that cultures will clash and people will disagree, and not because there is someone who is wrong.

I don't have any answers, devious. I just wanted to show that people will have different ideas, and why you shouldn't have to be upset by them. I'm sorry if I offended you because I was desperately trying not to.

[Ryan27]

OK, well I wasn't going to intervene, but there were a few points that I found objectionable, one that I already pointed out.

the topic is not a simple one. I have my views. you could discuss it forever, but I'd prefer not to if it's going to create ill-feeling.

FORZA INTER!!!
alright then philipas :) . now that I can respect. I stand by what I said, but I do apologize for coming after you. Every now and then I get into an argument with someone at these forums, but usually it gets resolved and in the end I find that the other guy isn't so bad after all. Maybe thats a lesson in itself...

[devious]

Your point is so clear now Ryan and I want you to know that I`ve never crossed on my mind that you are trying to offend me, I wasnt referring to you in our converstaion actully I was talking generaly realy.
so nothing to worry about dude.. ;)

[Sebastian]

...hating religion is pointless...we need to understand it...and devious...you're personality is intact in my posts...perhaps you're feeling offended at the moment...but that's becouse there's a religious Alter ego in all of the people who defends religion or who are offended and automaticaly takes over you're sweet and lovely personality...im not licking you're ass here...i dont have to you're not my menager or something i know you for quite some time and i know you well...you're statement that we agree only about football is just ridiculous...if we meet in person you would be amazed with how much we can agree(i wont point a gun at you dont worry)i feel sorry for one thing...and that's not about what i said about all religions...that one is perhaps concetrated on the Islam...but when i polemised with nimesh on the Cristianity and Vedas i was lot more critical...i feel sorry for the fact that people dont have enough couragge to take thier destiny in their own hands...only then will the world be enlightened...

and this dude philipas who said that i dont have a clue about islam has his own opiniuon...but pal...listen...when you are dismissing religions and proving something you cant go arround and just contradict...you have to be well educated and informed about everything...so you can bett in you're ass that i can give you lessions about every religion you want...perhaps here on internet than wont be impressivebut in person if we ever meet...i will confuse you so much that you would start and sing jinglbell,jinglbell...im not exageratting i know what i know...people know here that im not an ignorant but head...and about the ancient greeks how advanced they were???..they were advanced in that aspects that contradicts religion...and that's philosophy and mathematics,arithmatics,dialectics,rethorics and wisdom...which are the biggest enemies of the religion...in fact religion created the most ludicrous "science"Scholastics that supposed to be in perfect ballance with the matherial dialectics and nature...but that is so naive and stupid that it hurts...isnt it funny to laugh at their "gods"ZEUS...POSEIDON and the rest of those frustrated"gods"that looked more like sadists than gods???...
:lol:...is that so advanced pal...eh???should i be afright of Zeus and his brother Hades????

the theisis about different people is right or it isnt...it has to do with our ego much more than with eveything else...we are different in what???religion???liking or disliking something doesnt make us different...if i like a chocolate ice cream and someone else a vanila that doesnt make us different...it
is a matter of opinion but we're still as primitive like the animals...we're different becouse of our speech and consciosness nothing else...it's allmost a paradox...and those with "ciggars"in their brains wont be able to understand this...lucky there arent many of those here...you see the"difference"is biggest in the sphere of religion...that whole thing begun from those ugly dudes who couldnt light even a flame if by some accedent a thunder didnt hit some tree..."there has to be something that rules this that produce such immense power"...with time the mind evolved and so did the religious platform and the gods...those greeks had a god for everything...there always have to be a god my friends...so perhaps there's a God of INTERNET...there's a god who isnt Bill Gates but this apstract being who produces this wicked thing...and when the time become right those people who made the myth about Gilgamash thousands of years before the Egiptians started to made Gods for every occasion the Egyptians started to lead the race for religion and they started to create gods for evrything they even made a God from a fragile an pathetic being the Pharaoh...they were their prophets...then the Greeks fallowed...i admire to the Philosophy of the Buddism becouse it's not much of a religion as it is philosophy i said to nimesh too..which is so different than these"real religions"Buda was so wise that people made him a God...and now they are bowing to him...the same happened with JESUS...a man of such Charisma and wisdom that those who crucifyed him made him a God(the romans)perhaps the jews have more to do with that morbid decision but Jesus was consequent to his words and died for it like Socrates did for his philosophy...but philosophers are so much wiser and smarter than the religious priests that they cant just swallow some idea and fight for it doesnt matter if that something does exist or not...they evaluate words like the artists evaluate what perspective should they take...and becouse of those we are on Internet now...they evolved intellectually and made everything that this society have now...if it was for those religious dudes we would've still freezing our asses(like im doiung now cos this stupid idiot doesnt have a worming system in this damn internet caffe)...perhaps Budha was the greates of all these
"prohpets"he left the royal privilidges to become a cleric...but devious you say that Mohammed was poor man...i think he wasnt that poor...he was a conquerer and he was a leader in that department of his society those are historic facts my friend...(these stuff arent from CNN)i mean dont you see the obvious plagiate and stolen idea from the cristianity here???like christianity stoled zillion of ideas from the Tora and the jews????it's a fact that the islam is younger than cristianity 622 years but the cristianity is younger than Hinduism and Budism so much more...the Angel Gbriel (who is described in the CABBALA)made a revelation to Mohammad in some cave and then he becomed a prophet of God do you agree with that???that is the same angel that gave a Revelation to Mary for Jesus that he was the son of God...it seems that Mohhamad was sick of the Beduins and arabs who were decendants from Ismael Avraam and Agara's son from the Tora the jewish "holy"book...one of the Must do in Islam is circumsition...who first created Avraam as a honour of the pact with his God JAHVE..ELOHEEM or ADONAY whatever and on the eith day he hsould do that ritual...it's just a plagiate from one to another...they all copied each other that it's just getting borred...my grandfather who have read the Bible the Tora and the Curan told me once that Muhamed had a harem with 600 women...man this dude had more babes than David lee roth and Tomy lee but it seems that Jesus have been married too and there are proovs that he was married with Magdalena...the old Dogmas are snaping...and MOses this dude must've been quite angry when he wrote"tootyh for a tooth"and that infinity of ridiculous laws what you should do to someone who stolen you're sheep or a goat...he went ion Sinay carved some words in stone tablets and those were supposed to be the laws of God???Moses should not tell me what's evil or not...i have a consiousness which reminds me of something that's evil...no one needs laws curved in stone...but we need to listen to our consciousness...people how can you go and behave as these people were prohpets and that reality conformed at their wishes...i would recomend to all of you to read the ALLEGORY OF THE CAVE FROM PLATO...you will learn a great amount of knowledge with that...

back on the the difference theory...when we evolve if we evolve and start to lurn from these"differences"and become wiser rather than acumulating knowledge and arrogantly call our selves "intellegent"and im right you're not...only then we will perhaps conquerer our selves...only then we can travel interstellar difference rather then go in some dark and vast palaces called Churches...and what ever...devious you are angry when i call religion fantasy...but that's what it is...people doesnt live the moment they dwell in the past or fantasy of the future...there's always hope that our lives will be better and that we will all live in peace...you know i dont make my conclusiones from CNN...i dont perceive muslims from the CNN portal...there's thousands of muslims in MAcedonia and i know them quite well...and that covering thing that women does it is more than tradition...it is a necesarry component of the islam society...RELIGION is some sort of tradition...all of the muslim women here are covering them selves...and in France there's a huge problem with the schools with these matters...it must be religion that dicates such meassures...you know all of the religious people get ofenned about their religion what ever you say about their religion they feel ofended it's not just when i criticise like a did the muslims...i didnt said anything that there doesnt exsist my friend those are all undeniable facts...certain members of the ISlaam a bit more of them are exageratting like what Ryan mentioned with the crucaders...the Pope released the from taxes only if they go and fight for Christ"to kill a unbeliever it isnt a sin"and if that soldier died the the church took over all of his land...the same thing that a lot of muslims are doing now...it's just ironic that what ever religion wants to acheave it always get lost in the space and time continuum starts to construct a system of apstract and hypothetical things and that's where everything goes wrong like it usualy does...and now the Muslims will return the favour to the by drawing the charicatures that questiones the Hollocaust...:confused:...but that how it goes...it's just a proofe of how religious people lose their heads who someone makes a fun of them....cos you see there's nothing that can make me angry about anything...ofcourse cursing my wife..daughter and mother are a different thing...i mean you say i dont believe in nothing...but i dont have to man...i know what i know and i dont know what i dont i intend to lurn not believe...religious people believe in something that doesnt exist but the biggest irony here is that they dont know how to defend something that exist only in their heads like the crusades and now the Jihad dudes...what can you say Socrat was an Idiot???....HEGEL was an imbecil...SPINOZA the poor intelectual who was excomunicated by a bunch of jeweis ignorants becouse he said that people evolved from a Monkey tipe of creatures...will you say that he was a terrorist or that he was a moron???i couldnt care less...i absorb his good thoughts and ignore the bad...it's the third principle of the Dialectics Negation of Negation...you take the good ignore the bad and advance...i dont give a damn about what people say...and now these dudes are burning towers and are blood thursty becouse some provocators(who wants Turkey out of the European nation,xenofobs religious fanatics too)made a scetches of their "prohpet"a 16 year old kid murdered a catholic cleric in Turkey becouse of those cartoons....you see???this isnt only about the islam...cristians wiped whole civilizations in the name of the Lord...Politics created Religion i want you to understand this...in Egypet in Greece and in Roman Empire polititians indicated these nonsense...to keep people in control and if they got offended and then they can unleash those angry masses of humans to fight for the honour of their "God" created by Man...if some Trasncedent and devine being comes down from the heavens and tell to every living being that he is God and that he should be warshiped then i would do that too but there's no such thing nor that has happened...it's just a product of perverse polititians and priests to control the people....so they created a mystic dimension they used aspects "after death"something that's unknown to the human race and struck fear in their bones if they dont obey...cos a man that is uncontrolable ...that this society cant control is too dangerous a free intelect is something that no conquerer or King wanted...those people are smart...they dont swallow nonsense easily they reflect and evaluate words....it's not easy with them so they created Religion who was already there from the ignorant and uncivilised people mileniums ago...and they cant go and kill people just becouse some leader told them that they have offended their God who is actaully created by a man...if there's a God a perfect being he wants Free Intelects and people who are distanced from those pathetic beliefs...there's a saying if you are on the side of the mijority...then reform...cos you're mind has been weekened by the overwhelming number of people who believe in the same thing....you say one Billion believers???...that should impress me???there's two or three billions of christian who made the most perverse and the most bizarre things to the Human kind so that should convince me that if there's a billion of people or two bilion believing in something that they are right????when AINSTAIN revealed his theory of relativity he was considered as a clown at first and people laughed at his theories...the majority said that there's nothing real in his hipothesis...but what do you know now this whole science is subbordinated to his principles...that's the power of the free intelect...JIL VERNE(how the hell does it spell)made a theory of internal combustion engines and a space travel ship...whic the majority laughed at...they laughed at LEONARDO DA VINCI...a free and uncontroled intelect is what this civilization needs...not a whole bunch of people who are afright to free their thoughts chained by some "prophets"Milenia ago...
i dont have time to revise this post...cos my fingers are getting numb...i apologies for the misswritings but it's freezing here...i will continue perhaps tomorow...devious...i dont need to apologise to you...that would be useless...i can say a zillion of aologising words but that wont repair the damage to you're Religious Ego...it's not you that is ofended my friend...you say you're not religious but perhaps some part of you is...im no saying this to make you're anger a litlle bit easier or to make my self good in you're eyes...that's pointless...one day you will understand my friend...perhaps i seem to sharp...but you Giorgio...Zek and Ryan are the reason for my presence here....i no longer care about Inter or those trivial waste of time...it's just an excuse for me and perhaps for a lot of us to come here...i know that Zek no longer cares about this two...when we joked about heaven and hell i was the angel and he was the demon,...we had such fun...but there's always something that can distance people like a grave...something like Religion....if i was a religious fan i would tell you to you"go to hell"like it usually happens...but im not and dont call me an atheist...i dont like that term...i dont care if you do i cant care less but it's a word with no substance...ignorants hate stuff wise dudes dont hate anything....if i was an ignorant i would've hated Juventus...but i dont...:D...and i didnt called musilms animals it's just a conclusion that you came to...


...the second part will arrive soon...;)....

[Ryan27]

that is the longest post I have EVER seen. I'm going to need a little time to read it and digest it ;) ...

[evilmact]

that is the longest post I have EVER seen. I'm going to need a little time to read it and digest it ;) ...


And it's only the first part!!! :shocked: :lol:

[Sebastian]

...if i bow like the muslims and stand on my knees like the Christians if i do all of those pointless rituals then God will save me,but if i intend to grasp the real reality...if i strive to understand the mind...the real beauty of the nature...the untouched pureness of the unchained Thought and the infinite and unlimited wisdom of the Ancient Universe,which afcourse doesnt leave space for pure speculation...nonessential and antisubstantual beliefs...then God will punish me and he will throw me in to the Lake of Fire
where some hilarious looking creatures will fullfill their erotic fantasies with me and make me scream for an eternity???I doubt that even by dogmatic and religious logic a God being would want in his company beings who doesnt understand even their own body,someone like that would grasp even a particle of the Perfect being???so all we need is to pretend and God will save us...cos in reality its not about belief but fear of a punishment..all those billions are afright..regardles of their religion,that becouse of their perversions they will be tormented till the end of time...but if they believe and confess their sins,then he will spare them...as if that God is some child who cant read between the lines...it is religions that say that he's perfect but it seems that all of them descrace and embarass him with violence and monstruous action over and over again...yeah i'll confess my sins and he will forgive me,no matter what i did...Catholics build the ST.Peter church in Vatican,with that conesing of sins...they said to the people that all they need is to pay for their tipe of sins and the Pope would forgive them...God's murcy is infinite but yet theres a hell:confused:people wants to find a way to isolate their guilt for the conscious hatered toward"different"people who arent "right"like us and what do we create???a God who will make all of that desapear just like that so we can continue to Hate and repeat that Cicle???to relief our tormented consciousness ,becouse it became a real hell...a God who will make our autosuggestion more lucide...the Budism teaches to escape from youre self becouse its unreal cos its corrupted,but they dont tell you that by escaping from youre Demons you make them more powerfull and more terifying...to beat youre self is to know you and understand youre mind...and i will acheave that if i konfront with my Perversion,hatered and ignorance...i can beat all of these demons of the Human Mind with Love and Wisdom and this you wont find and any relligion...

"I went to search God on Golgota in Jerusalim on the Cross,but he wasnt there...I went to MECCA but still there was no trace of him...I went in the Great Temple of Budda,but he wasnt there...i asked the scolars,the scientists and the philosophers but still there wasnt sign of him...and then after manny tears i looked down in to my heart and Mind and there he was"

...This is from Enigmas album its written on its covers...its one of the most beautifull things i have seen...a Perfect God would want someone who strives for excellence and Perfection with conceiving the truth and Nature inself...theres a saying dont fallow other people ways...Make youre own and leave a trace...and religions couldnt be more distanced from the truth...they dont solve problems...they make problems even bigger...its wise for all of you to read the Allegory of the Cave...it describes the world full of ilusions and shadows...but the Human being havent evolved for thousands of years so that can bow to empty dreams and fantasies...its the Diamond in the Crown of Nature and its designed to walk with is head high and become a form in which Nature defines it self...and that aint gonna happen if we continue with this"prophets"and "Gods"we hate each others...claiming that we are different instead of trying to understand our own mind and afterwards each others...the difference between religions is hatred...every one dislikes the other one,becouse he believe in something else... regardles of the hypocracy that the religious leaders do when they hug each others,as if they repect each other...they despise each other no matter how hard they try to hide their hatered...you can see that in their eyes...There will always be atempts to prove to the other that he's wrong...but someone who is free from all that false pride,cant be a hypocrit...im not a member of any religious clan so that you can call me a hypocrit my friend...i would've been that if i didnt told you what i feel abou the Islam and the rest of the religious company...if i was religious...Christian,Budhist,Hinduist or a Jew then you could've easily demant my arguments,becouse we would speculate forewer...you about youre prophet...me about mine and so and so...but the point is that im not...and its Science,Philosophy and Nature against only an old tradition that exist only in our heads...all they can do is arguing about matters based only on belief,which have nothing to do with Nature...if we have build this civilisation entirely on belief,then we would leave in darkness.no religion ruled with Absolute Hegemony like the Christianity...and they relied only on belief they executed people cos they believed that they were witches...it wasnt called the Dark Ages for nothing...That supposed to be a reminder for what damage can an ignorant and religious society do...but the Leaders thursty of power resurected the whole thing...and the same old story...now in this nuclear era would be Apocaliptic to have a dogmatic society...Its a conflict between Europe's Christians against the Muslims... European Acociation and its administration is full of religious christians...the party in power in Holland is religious...its politics...cos religion is actualy politics...in Macedonia, and Serbia the Orthadox churches hate each other so much that is even a bigger scandal that the Ellection scam+there's the Greek orthadox church that hate us Macedonian with such stratospheric hatred that i offten ask my self how can these Demons speak about God's mercy and that they are his servants:confused:...someone must reflect much more to realise that there's politics in it's most refined form..Europeans(in which MAcedonia will newer be a member equal to the others they lie us and they make fool of us every time their delegates arrive here) dont care whether you are a peacfull muslim or not if youre a muslim they will hate you...They dont want a Muslim country like Turkey and they made a silly provocation by which results they were amazed and glad...there has been so many bad actions made by muslims that you cant stay indifferent aspecialy for the members of the other religions...the media uses that to Hyperbolise the whole thing...i knew that this would happen they have been luying Turkey for 40years...but i must admit religious people in Europe are difffrent from the ones that are doing the demonstrations for the cartoons,there are incidents bun not of those proportions...Muslim religion its no longer considered as peacfull...they might say"we strive for peace"but a lot of muslims in the moment wants only destruction...and as for those radical "wings"they waited for this for so long...this is like honney for them...Islam has received a bad publicity for a reason...Lets not be naive...its not like some Jehova's Veatnesses or Protestants infiltrated in the Muslim society,blow them selves up and then blamed some "innocent"muslims...that is naive...whatever bad happens in the muslim world its done by radicals and that Islam has nothing to do with it...Thats politics,the same politics like in the Cold War what ever happens if Russia or America shot a plane it demants and make a happy and inncent face.the Pope did the same with the Crusades....Leaders are deceiving and clever..they know how to manipulate with even intelectuals...how do you explain the fact that some incredibly intelegent young people and muslims fight for AL QAEDA...they dont want power like their wicked leader...their intelect has been religiously assimilated...and do you think that the people who did those cartoons arent driven by some religious reasons???Religious provocations in Europe arent rear in Macedonia fr'instance there's even too much of the newerending battle between the Christians and Muslims...if i had supernatural power i would take them and teleport them on Mars,there has violence which is usual for a conflict between the religious fans...even litlle kids of the oponent religions hate and fight in schools frequently...you know it's like when Juve and Inter fans meet but it's like that...it's almost as trivial as football this religious stuff...they insult and kill each others for matters that doesnt effect their natural lives and that they can live without even better and expiriance that Ancient happiness that is a characteristic of every human being and animal that was "installed"in every living being from the beggining of time...we dont need to search for happiness...it's in our hearts and minds..seaching what you allready have will only complicate things and you will lost you're self like Diogen lost him self when he was searching"people"with a candle in the midlle of a bright day:confused::lol:...with that he lost him self in the endless maze of his Mind...but that's something that people who live under religious dictature can newer understand...as i said there's religious fanatics in European Administration,but they arent violent...you will newer see that kind of things cos they are smooth operators...they know how to make someone furious
Only the buddists can say that they are peacfull...not the muslims and not the christians...there has been too much blood and violence in their history and hands...cos Budda didnt had powerfull enemies like JESUS and MOHAMMED...what do you want me to say???That theres a Conspiracy against the Christians and the Muslims?by who the Massons?They hate each others...i mean im not some retard that watches CNN and hates the muslims or cristians theres a lot of muslims in Macedonia...and you know what some of them do??They go and burn Churches and they use Manastirs as Toalets..or they throw bombs in the police headquarters...Now i dont give a damn...Last night i saw on our Local Tv that they burned a Monastry and i said"thats nothing,as long as theres no human casulties"thats only stones in which theres nothing holy,but why to destroy something that has been made 300years ago???The message is clear...but people here believe that their God is offended and they curse the muslims...its obvious that muslims feels that hatred toward the christians...People are murdering for something that is of no importance as far as Life is concerned...for Belief...:confused:but the scientists have made Religion a Joke...everything the Church said was not only wrong but incredibly stupid...you can send people on Jupiter becuse you believe that itll be fine...belief doesnt exists in reality and has no magical or transcedent power...by it you can only start a mess becouse there will be always people who will start their religions...who will call them selves prophets...Can you believe that they made Dianetics\Scientology a Religion???:D it is supported by some incredibly powerfull people,Tom Cruse and John Travolta and they believe that the author of dianetics is the biggest prophet of them all:shocked:they made their own religion cos they didnt wanted the existing religions,however these people arent eccentrics like the Jehova's weatnesses:D...MelGibson made a Church in his back yard when he wants to pray,so God will listen to his Capricious demands to visit him in his private Chappel becuse Gibson is a VIP?? this isnt the StarWars or Lord of the Rings...the only magic is the bullet of the Gun...and belief isnt helping to those african people where people die every 3 second...whats the point in prayers and words???This is a material dimensions and words desapear like brown leaves blown from the wind...it needs deeds not words and useles prayers...Bruce Lee used this principle to make a Martial Art free of all rituals and stupid eyes covering nonsense and he made one of the best branches in Martial Arts...although small and tiny,he could've beat any tipe of oponent...becouse it was effective and excluded those hilarious SNAKE,PANTHER,TIGER nonsense...let some of these"masters"go and fight with a Kick boxer and use the snake stance on him:lol:he'll be the first visitor to NEPTUN...You know what im saying???its all just rituals and prayers...for EASTER or XRISTMASS they make such absurdly ridiculous rituals,that i dont know weather to cry or laugh...Lets wiew that like this...why would a Perfect being care for all of that ass licking rituals and pretending hipocricy,even if it is honest,why he should listen to all of that...He didnt created that,people did...like this it looks like its atempt to manipulate and control HIM through belief...believe and you will be safe...Wise people say IT'S NOT WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IN GOD,IT'S WHETHER HE BELIEVE IN YOU...i dont believe in things that religious people do...but does that means that im a bad person and a hypocrit???If i help people and love animals even more than people,cos he who loves animals cant get no favour from them...which isnt the same with people they always want something in return...animals are innocent cos they dont have consciousness and they know no evil or good...If i understand that in my minority and ignorance is my greatness...and i believe in Wisdom so you're wrong when you said that i dont believe in nothing...i believe in something that my Mind feeds on...people can lurn so much from people who are hungry for Wisdom...then people who perform rituals and believe in essotheric principles that can be newer expirianced and fall in to Transes...Mind and Wisdom is my soul and my Body is my Temple...first i need to undestand my self and for that even two life times arent enough...but i have only one life time...I leave space for improvement...im happy with my knowledge,but also im happy with my ignorance...in religion everything stagnates...
Watter that doesnt move is Mud...Im saying that i dont hate people becouse of their Religious ego,like they hate each others...and you shouldnt consider me as youre enemy becouse i criticised the muslims...i would criticised any other religious group who use methods like that...and im sorry that you was offended,but peacfull or not the whole Muslim world will have to bear responsibility and negative conotation for this...wait and see that this is the beggining of the Religious conflict between Muslims and Christians...peshaps not a war but now its obvious that the cartoon provocation was even more than effective and i doubt that it will end up with an apology by the Christians that is the most artificial and synthetic i have ever seen...

[Sebastian]

...read my posts carefully...my intention is to demistify something here...i speak with an open mind criticizing aspects of a camouflaged Political System that uses Mystical,Essotheric,Contraversial methods and Demagogy to Magnetise atention...an Encient evil that feeds it's everlasting hunger with Human Lives as if they are flyes...

[devious]

So there is no God!I got it now... so the religions are some words written on trees papers or a huge Rock written by politicans and other ppl that can be said as wise like Muhammed and Messih just to control ppl`s mind and to make them do whatever they want? so Muhammed wasnt poor man because you did read that on some book and he had 60 womens cause your father said so?.. do you know also that Muhammed was uneducated, he didnt know how to read or write untill the day that angel come to him with the religion and taught him how to read and write and gave him the words of the God, well.. this is nonsence ofcourse because you wouldnt belive that even if you read it in some of your interesting books, right? cause in the first place there is no such thing as a God, so there is no need to care about if Muhammed was educated and became an eduacted in one day, who gives a damn as long the religions are big lies blind the humen from the truth that there is no God and we here just like animals, trees, rocks.. but ofcourse we are a little bit more intelegence and more capable to do things more than an animal or a tree or even a dust or a rock.. but unfortunatly in your world the bad guy who killed and raped women and children have the same end of the good man who did well in his life harming no one and tried his best to live a good healthy peacful life..
you know my friend Ive been there before, your way of seeing things, cause everything that I`ve been seen (or like you see now) is a fact and right concluganse for what you are seeing.. religions only cause wars and hatered between each of the different religion ppl, Ive read books many! and Ive read those ones about the theories that support the non existence of a God and other scientific proves that claims that the universe dont have a God to go on.. those was an exciting books to read just so perfect to be true! but there was always something missing and somekind of an inconsistency, then I read the books of the different religions, and every religion I read diferent book for the same religion like a distirt copy of the other one then I thought what if some clever person made just lke I did.. read those atheist books with scientifc proves that God dont exist then reading the distort books of the religions that only have one aim is that there is a God, I would be an atheist without any hesitancy.. I mean see.. an angel!? what the ***k is that!! I never saw an angel?, or what an armageddon!?? a perfect God!?? what the hell!! nothing is perfect? and if there is a perfect how could you know a perfect thing (God, human, machine) and yu didnt even realize or understand such word in the real life, you just can define it in words, then you think you know what is the perfection is then easily says there is no perfect God cause a perfect God should have been like this and that and a perfet God should have done this and that and shouldnt have done this and that... lol.. oh like I realy know how God would think! or how a perfect God would think!
Listen, I want you to understand that I agree with you with manythings.. you were right about that, ppl have got the wrong idea, pure ways to help ppl live better ways, every birth of a religion was something os beautiful, something amazing, it helps to make rich ppl to live with the poor without inslavment, they helped wise ppl to realize and understand many things about life that they couldnt understand before, it helped making the life more peacful and it created a wonderful atmoshpere to loook at the life, it created obligations and reasons why ppl are here with those splendors like inspiration, thinking, feeling, thinking, free willing and not like animals or planets that havnt got those much of gifts or abilities like us humans.. but all of this in the begining.. but now, most of religioins are separated now and that becasue some politicans (just like you said) used this method to thier personal aims and to make everyone obay them in the name of God! what else could be more ugly than this!! look what the likes of Pharaohs made.. ofcourse they were maybe the most intelegnt culture that the man knew, but they did that using the religion issue.. they used ppl as slaves claiming that if you dont obay the king you`ll be cursed and throwen in hell! that`s nonsense! and the other culture that made a God for everything, who made this? politicans with the help of men that they named as priests so they can rule the world forcing the beliefs.. it`s a long list of using the method, the real religion and the aim for it.. using it for personal reasons and look now where are we? in the begining of a third world war.. even the Muslims that have the most precious book that havnt been distorted different from the all other religions that have been.. but still the priests clarifing the meaning in the book only to serve the politicans just like you explained my friend..
but away from all of those.. and just like you said, you make your own way and dont copy anyone cause he said so.. Im sure you have read much books but it wasnt enough cause you only read the books for writers how hate the religions and support the opinion that you need to be supported in you, you never read anything from the other side, you never read a book for a Muslime scientist for example, or above all.. you didnt read the Quran or the quots of Muhammed, Im sure you didnt do that and I dont think you`ll ever have to cause you wont read them IN OPENED MINDED as you read the other books, cause your brain have already built a picture for all those things as nonsense and not worth reading, and even if you thought about reading what`s in it your brian would claim that you know what`s is all about.. "Love God he created you.., pray and fear him or you`ll go to hell.." that what you think that you know everything in those books.. but belive me, you dont have any idea, and Im the one saying that.. I read as many books as you do, I can say ever much more than you could ever imagine!
I look at you dude and I see an intelegent guy who already built his own religion and method who have built it and trying to support it and makes bring it to the real world by looking at everything that could cristicise it with only one glass, the glass that shows what it looks like now and how it have been reflected by the men who are following those religions, the result would be for sure you are so right and even I would agree with you cause I also do use the way of mind more ever than you can imagine, but ofcourse you would belive that casue I follow a relgion, Islam, right? well you are wrong cause I said and I ment it I have been where you are now the same ideas and way of thinking, but the thing you didnt got is in my resent posts I didnt defend those muslims who made such stuoed things I was trying to explain why they did that, that doesnt mean that Im defending them cause Im a muslim as well, in fact no, Im not a muslome like them, Im my own Muslim, I read the Quran and I realized with all of my thoughts and experiance and with all what I have read that this book isnt a man`s script! those words are so much more than a man`s fantasy`s ideas, and guess what? the person who have deliverd this book wasnt educated prophet untill he recived it and he became one of the most intelegent charachters known in the world, yes he was smart but wasnt educated, he didnt read or write, yes he was a leader after that in long years, but still he didnt live in a castle and his words wasnt the king`s words.. he was intercommunicating, he didnt have money for his own only what he have gained from his small goats commerce and trade, he used the war taxes to serve the poor muslims although he was one of them but he never get any for himself, well it`s a very long with no end list to talk about this man to tell you how he was great, but I guess in the end you wont care and it would also make you creat more criticises and make fun still you dont know who is this man but what you have been in a some other book or what your father have said!
I ask you for one moment to take off those glasses and see the things that you prevent yourself to even think about.. yu are seeing the truth of the things I agree with that, the all world is missed up cause they follow the wrong way blinded by other men who claims they know God but they dont and that what have been a strong evidence to support what you belve in, is if God exciste this mess wouldnt be excist and the world would have been a better place! no my friend, you`ll never know what a God is, and why things are like that, and why there is evil and good and why we have no prove for what`s right or wrong.. you wont ever understand, me too.. so both of us have choosed very diferent methods to rest our heads from thinking about something we never know if it`s right or wrong, but all I know is that ther is a chance that I`ll be right in the end, and there will be a God and there will be a judgment day although I have no idea if I`ll go to heaven or hell, but I belive that then when the time come I`ll have a very different feeling and I`ll understand everything, all the questions will be answered, but also If this moment didnt come and I was wrong then I`ll be just gone like Ive never been excisted, so I`m losing anything also winning nothing.. can you see Im in a little bit safer side than you are? or maybe that`s the way Im seeing things from my own glasses? maybe! :)
I know those kind of conversations that it will last forever and you`ll write even more longer posts, and even your obduracy will grow much more as much as mine.. but there is something I`ll disagree with you, Im here in the first place for Inter and not for anything else, I love the club and I admire football and I love the Intersti here in the forum, they are ones of the most clever guys Ive ever met in my life! and I`ve learned so much more about Inter from them.. so in the end of all FORZA NERAZURRII!!!! ;)

[Zek]

some serious stuff going on at the cafe I see :evil: not gonna get involved in your hard discussions, but now have decent night time reading of 10 pages ;)

so my beloved friends fell a victim of few politicians using cartoons to create tension between nations, regions, communities... damn, it's everywhere, at the streets, at work, at home all same discussions...

at the end of the day such cartoons were published at different times last century, few centuries ago and etc. Never before some cartoon artists managed to get so much attention for their unethical behaviours... Somehow, cartoons published in Denmark in September are now in a center of discussion 6 month after! Amazing. I am sure right people spotted them long ago, but were waiting for the situation when it's useful to escalate the world and got it 6 month later...

and living in 'muslim' country, born in 'muslim' family and having got all western and soviet atheist education :D yeah I stuck in the middle :brushteet: anyway,

1. Few drawings aren't reasons to kill people and threaten everyone
2. Media shall not publish and re-publish drawings which are considered unethical by about 1 billion true muslims!

at the end of the day western politicians are now showing to general public (generally pretty ignorant people, especially in States - sorry Ryan, I still remember how people in Texas were telling me that Russia is nearby south Africa, close to Nigeria) how uncivilized world has a control over major oil resources and now wants to have a nuclear weapons, which we shall not allow them...

so called muslim world, has it's own story of how west treats them and that this will always be like that. For uneducated population it's just about the right message. Hey? and now Iran calls for Holocaust... Is that really Islam or is that ethical? Not, but who cares, just stick another topic relate it to already working publications scandal and use it for your own purposes...

and add the background:
Iran vs. world on nuclear weapons, which why they shall not be allowed to have? Israel, Pakistan, India does and noone in the rest of the world ever asked same questions from them?

Lovely boys won democratic election in Palestine :D hmmm... democracy tool not working properly? Never did, Hitler won his elections in a very democratic way in Germany last century.

another idiot from (all positions apart from Marxists) sits in Venesuela and becomes a charismatic leader of poor in Latin America...

but, hey let's go back to my region, bird flu - Turkey is a major problem, because those 'uncivilized' people sleep with poultry... I went out in my countryside and spoken to villagers, they're scared, but they are poor and chicken sometimes is the only resource for them. Anyway, the point here is bird flu is some serious shit the world is now facing, but who tops the news a different story. Because, that's nice one, you're not responsible for taking actions and responsibilities, just blame christians or muslims or both...

so at the end we may get really far with this sheet (drawings) to a strong confrontation. my logic tells the whole story does not have much to do with some publications in Danish newspapers... it's someone's game or maybe a chess party between global major powers...

all I wanted to say or actually reinforce, that there are serious issues in global politics, and things have gone so far, that religion and people's beliefs are being utilized for another world war or global fight for energy? Don't know, but one thing know for sure, we are in the middle of a dangerous process.

Not interested in questioning God's existence, it's an eternal talk, you'll know it when you die according to books. But it's really terryfying how people's beliefs (morale, ethics) are being hit these days

Excuse my long off-topic post...

[Sebastian]

...Devious...i mean the point that you're trying to materialise here is just so religious...as if you're afright...if there's a hell then you would be safer than me who laughs at that eh???i was talking exacly of that kind of "prison"..to feels safer all of you're life...to live better in you're next life and about this one it doesnt matter..just wait the judgment day...and about those glasses that you speak first we should be able to see with our phisical eyes and then use glases to reinforce our vision...and saying that im now where you were once os a bit arrogant...i have a fixed idea and i view everything through that like a Donkey when stands on the bridge...:confused:..in fact..i was religious once...but then if you're wise enough you'll start to read between the lines and perceive all those illogical and naive chains and nonsense that has been acumulated for centuries...and this thing about angel going to Mohammed and from an ignorant man there's a prophet who knows everything all of a sudden...you speak of him as if you knew him personaly and you say that i read some funny books full of atheism...I DONT READ STORIES LIKE IN EVERY"HOLY"BOOK IF THEORY OF RELATIVITY...STEPHEN HAWKINGS BRILLIANT VISION OF THE UNIVERSE and the PHILOSOPHY is a funny thing then what about those"holy"books???:confused:...i read things that constructed our society man...books of substance...books that people who thrown out that PAGAN EVOLUTIONARY INVENTIONS when people couldnt understand the nature it self so they went to burn"those people who read funny books and laughed at those who were talking to angles and to various tipes of Gods"...it isnt my father it's my grandfather of whoom i talked for...he is extremely educated priest and has an immense knowledge of all religions...how do you know that Mohammed couldnt read or wright???becouse it sas in the Curan???those books are written by people just like every other book...but they were blesed with the holy spirit eh???
..i preffer to read books and people who understood nature and who can contribute to this civilisation...things that are real and exist out side our heads...what you're speaking of is close to mIthology...people thgat existed are eaggerated by fallowing generations as Myths and legends...
my friend...atheism is ridiculous...it's a word without substance i told you....im not speaking of Nice who was the biggest atheist...he was a philosopher but when i speak about philosophy i dont speak of him...im not demanting anything i persent you facts here...and whenever you speak of religion to someone who speaks of Facts and Nature in it's full bloom you will go round in circles...you agree with me that it's a political thing but you desagree to reconstruct you're logic whether what it's writtent in those"holy"books is true???and you see a dude who constructed his religion and the way he wants to see and throws everything he sw different....man...did i wrote those posts invain???i've told you so many arguments that religion is fantasy and you say that i constructed my religion....ok fine...everything that RELIGION has been proven wrong that is not how nature works and it has been proven by those who read funny books...look it this way the Past belongs to the religious people...the present and the future belongs to the scientific aproach...you wrote that big posts but the point is missing my friend...it's like searching for God man...and dont tell me that no one can know what God is...but yet everyone searches for him...i dont search for God i search my mind and nature...
it is you who speaks about an invented image of what God is so you're indirectly defending him...by saying that no one can know him there's allready indication that you think that you're closer to God than i am just becouse you believe...
i speak about facts...i dont have to say that religion is a lie religious people sya that for me...they dont know where their heads are man...
adamn i have a meeting and im allready late....

[philipas]

drivel drivel drivel eLcino...your cafe politics and philosophy leaves much to be desired. I think you like the sight of your own incoherent posts. sorry mate, but you come across as very poorly informed and educated, but it's not your fault, just the circumstances of your existence...

[Sebastian]

drivel drivel drivel eLcino...your cafe politics and philosophy leaves much to be desired. I think you like the sight of your own incoherent posts. sorry mate, but you come across as very poorly informed and educated, but it's not your fault, just the circumstances of your existence...

....why dont you tell me why im so poorly educated and informed and about my circumstances of existance...why dont you log my self in to you're dimension of Wisdom and superiour knowldege..i mean these few words that you said should be supported by arguments...why dont you tell me you're arguments...and we'll confront mine with youurs...;)....

[philipas]

....why dont you tell me why im so poorly educated and informed and about my circumstances of existance...why dont you log my self in to you're dimension of Wisdom and superiour knowldege..i mean these few words that you said should be supported by arguments...why dont you tell me you're arguments...and we'll confront mine with youurs...;).... firsty your diction and expression is less than satisfactory. secondly your veiwpoints on geopolitics is tainted from your perspective, your existence...therefore you must put yourself into the feet of other people in this world and not have such a centric view.

ignorance is to blame for many an ill...what people who don't live in muslim countries have to understand is that muslims take their religion very seriously, much more than we do in the west and in a globalised world of quick an easy information transfer, this can lead to quick an easy offense. you have not realised this from the opening of your arguement and have gone on to criticise those with strong religious beliefs and hence my criticism.

[devious]

I wont go throw this again and again casue we both know where it could end man.. just want to point that all the stories about Muhammed wasnt in a book, it was said by the ppl who live with him, his wife, friends, and the ppl who faught him and were thier enemies.. so there is no single lie in it or like a one story that we all should read and belive without a question, I did read his story of life from many different sourses and many books and nothing was different.. all the same story about him from story books and not Quran, secondly I dont think it`s wise to talk about a thing that you dont know about like a book that you didnt read.. Quran isnt like whatever else you read for another religion.
but you know what, in the end man, I`m so happy living as a muslime, feeling a warm safe place I do belong although there are ppl that use is wrong and use it a war tool to get there bad intentions but it doesnt mean that religion is the one to blam, Im a muslim and I belive in God and Im so pleased no one force me to belive and Ive donr my best to provid a better life to myself and Islam is the only thing that helps me to do so and not anyone else, I have problems in my life and the only thing that helps me out is Islam and this religion isnt just about praying and crying for forgivness to avoid the hell.. naah.. that`s just waht you know about the religion anyway, but if you go deeper and search you`ll find many things to know and understand about life that I doubt even science would ever understand or try to explain, and it`s not a mythology thing.. it`s real thing belongs to our life even before there is something called science that you are builting and depending on in all of your life now, I belive in science and in God and I belive Islam is an exciting unbelivbale way of comporting both of them to serve your needs.. If I could convince you by any way to read about the Islam as a method, what`s it`s all about.. but I think I have no chance doing this casue you already formed an idea in your mind of any religion (as if they all the same) as a mythologies and legendry stories like hercules and zena or whatever science fiction serious you have saw.
man.. we have born in this life with free will.. you are free to belive in whatever and me too, so the game of trying to prove that your beliefs are fantasies or yours are science fiction doesnt work for both of us and wont work under any other conditions, but Im sure about is that you dont know which side Im in, you have no idea about my thoughts or the thing I belive in casue you think that all belivers are the same and that`s not right at all, trust me.

[Sebastian]

...devious how religion condems and speak about unbelievers that is so desturbing that is even sick...if you are unbeliever you will die like this...like that...that is said in all religions about hell...why there's HELL in every religion???you said by you're self that you can be safer than me... if all that exists...it's based on fear...if i dont do evil and i have other opinion than some prophets i will be condemned???

philipus...i speak of all religions not just the muslim...

Koran 9:29
Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the jiziya (poll tax) with the hand of humility.

Koran 9:73
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their Home: an evil fate.

Koran 4:144
Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves ?

Koran 5:51
Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrong-doers.

Koran 22:19-22:23
Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Sclading water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: 'Taste the torment of the Conflagration!'

...this is why you're afright???...im not trying to offend you is this what it's all about????



JESUS ON HELL (part 5) - Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

JESUS ON HELL (part 3) - Matthew 13:41-42
"The Son of Man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity. And shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be a wailing and gnashing of teeth."

you say no one knows God by in the holy books they speak of him as they personaly know him...and why about this????...is this the reason for believing????

if there isnt hell in these religions...no one would believe....you said by you're self...to feel safer...if there's a chanse that to exist...:confused:...all the wisdom in the books obligates you to insert that in to you're mind and heart with their hell...to frighten you with the unknown...

...i have been deep in to religion...but that's an apstract thing...everyone perceive that diferently...im not speaking in vain...i wont go in to details...but i want you to know that i was deeply religious...now dont say "you didnt understood that good enough"...dont say that i know only hell...im a happy man and when i was sad religion didnt helped me...im sad that you have problems...and if the Islam gives you strength then so be it...i wish we can meet and talk with you in four eyes about you're problems...perhaps...like this it wont be the same like in person...i remember when you were desapointed once...a bit more...and i cant forget that...i wish i can sincirely help you...but...internet doesnt solve personal problems...i dont say that i will solve you're problems but when you speak with someone in four eyes things can be easier...

and philipus...what's wrong with my expression???...less than satysfactory????....:confused:...becouse we dont agree i dont know how to express???you are the first who said this to me...

[Ryan27]

firsty your diction and expression is less than satisfactory.
philipas man, I cannot believe you are being critical of elcino's 'diction'. Shame on you.

[Ryan27]

at the end of the day western politicians are now showing to general public (generally pretty ignorant people, especially in States - sorry Ryan, I still remember how people in Texas were telling me that Russia is nearby south Africa, close to Nigeria) how uncivilized world has a control over major oil resources and now wants to have a nuclear weapons, which we shall not allow them...
:D No argument here man. The US is a large country with lots of ignorant people, especially in Texas. Thats not to say everyone is that way though, and other countries have their own share of ignorance as well.

[devious]

Thank you for trying to help but Im a little bit more complicated person that you could ever imagine, so dont think about it.. thank you anyway.
I dont follow the Islam because of the hell subject! I even rarely think about it realy... so I didnt follow a religion becasue Im afraid if it`s right or wrong, I follow it because I found solutions in it things that you would`nt understand cause as I see you read a book only to come out with what you want to help you critcising it by for example bringing out the subject of heaven and hell, a something that no one alive saw and would never know about or be sure, I dont have to be afriad of something that I didnt see.. so I follow this religion casue it have something that I realy wanted so much, endless knowledge and wisdom that I learn everyday something new reading in the Quran.. the only thing that casues me troubles only when I go away and forget the things Ive learned from the Quran, like that day that you dont forget when I was so down and came here and asked for help.. that was silly and now Im paying for it as you are making fun of it now..
it`s all my fault from the begining, I thought we can just close this subject of the religion and I tried but you already crossed the line over there, before I just go as I found one good reason to leave the forum I ask you for one time in your all life to put yourself in the other side for just a moment..if you were totaly wrong , Im not trying to tell you that you are wrong, no ofcourse you are the man who know the truth and the other billions of belivers are stuped human beings.. I know this truth, Im very sure of it.. I just ask you Mr Einstien (even this genious was a beliver!!! but ofcourse you are much more intelignce than this genious no doubt!) if you can put yourself in this position, imagine if you died and you found the things you couldnt expect and you belived, just try to feel the moment, then back again to your normal person after that and live your normal life as you want and think what you want and keep searching for the proves to strenght your position as you want, I did that before, I put my self in your position as there will be no God and all reliogns are something fake writeen by humans as Quran (was so hard to me to imagine that but I made it for just 6 seconds) and I took a look of myself to find a dressed animal that have no reason to live but tryint to find a jop to eat and drink then finding a woman to ***k.. I ean like an animal, doing things that would keep me survive, like anyother animal from my race, we all the same, more likely machines, have no true propose, belive in nothing, dont feel thankful for anyone like Im realy dont exsit, it didnty matter in this time, even If I decided to kill myself becasue Im bored of life so I would do it quickly wiht a agun, so I totaly control my life with no wraps or laws but the ones the the gouvernemt have put... so I came back again to my person and felt the all pity for the poor unbelivers, there is no meaning for thier lives and the only thing that keeps there brain thinking is to blive that they are smart persons and special as they see the all belivers as fooled ones or should I say COUARED ones that belive in something dont exicst as hell and feel afraid of it, I think this just makes you feel great thinking about it, you feel so special don you!?
but in the end there is no my truth and your truth, you maybe think you can control your life but there are things that you wont just like you didnt choose to be born or in what place and when you`ll die, ...oh ofcourse you`ll have your own theory about that, life and death... u know the truth, the real truth!
I want to thank you for reminding me again.. as I told you Im not a religious but sometimes when I search for the reason Im sad or feeling bad I just look back to the Quran and I found simple words as simple unswers wether :
"Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves?"

so Im going now to make my life better and not continue arguing in something that I dont have to as long I do belive, it`s not my problem what you are thinking now about anything it`s your problem.

Im realy done and need a serious break from all this internet bullshit..
so long.

[2T]

hey guys

Most of u don't know me cuz i rarely post here ,but iam following this forum all the time.


Elchino from what I read here u believe there's no god right? if so let me give u scientific evidences that shows u that el koran isn't the words of mohamad or any other people its the word of god.

there's so much evidences i will mention a few


1-the seven layers of earth


http://www.55a.net/firas/ar_photo/2/earth2.gif
The figure demonstrates the seven layers of the Earth. We note the thin crust then the four layers of the Mantle increasing gradually in thickness. Next is the liquid outer core then the solid inner core. They all add up to seven layers.


The layers of the Earth are radically different in composition, density, temperature and material. Hence, the Earth can not be considered as one layer as was previously believed. The notion of the seven layers is relatively new and didn’t exist at the time the Quran was revealed. Scientists in the twenty-first century concluded that the Earth consists of seven layers, but what does the Quran have to say about that?





What the Quran says:

Telling of the seven layers of the Heavens and the Earth, God says in the Holy Quran:

1- He (Allah) Who created the seven heavens one above the other – [Al Mulk: 3]

2- Allah is He Who created seven heavens and the earth the like of them – [ Al Talaaq: 12]
The first verse is talking about two characteristics of the heavens; their number, that is seven, and the arrangement of them (one above the other) or ‘in layers’. The second verse asserts the similarity between the Earth and the heavens (And the Earth the like of them), so as the heavens consist of seven layers, the earth identically consists of seven layers.

[2T]

2- the expansion of the universe

In the first third of the 20th century, astronomers noticed the expansion of the universe, the thing that has aroused a lot of controversy before scientists could admit it. The glorious Quran refers to this fact before 1400 years ago as Allah Say in Surat (Al-Dhareyat – "Drivers of the Wind"), verse 47: "We have built the heaven with might, and We will continue to expand it." This verse was sent when the whole world believed that the Universe is stable and unchanging. This thought prevailed till mid 20th century when astronomers discovered that the Universe is expanding and its galaxies are getting distant from us and from each other at almost the speed of light (300.000 Km/s). Besides, all the mathematical equations and the laws of physics support what astronomers found. Hence, astronomers, theoretical physicists and astrophysicists assume that if we go back in time, we'll find that all - the visible and invisible – forms of matter and energy in the cosmos must have been compressed in an elementary minute body whose size is almost zero, and where the dimensions of time and place contract. This elementary body was in a state of density and heat that no human mind can ever imagine and where there is no place for the laws of physics. This elementary body exploded – by Allah's command - in what's called by scientists the Big Bang (and by the Quran {Al-fatq} which means the phase when the earth and heavens exploded after being a one solid mass). Therefore, the Quran is the first to mention this great cosmic event exceeding any human knowledge as Allah Say: "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we have made everything living. Will they not then believe?" {surat Al-Anbeyaa (The prophets)-verse 30}

[2T]

3- The Fine Tuning in the Universe

(He Who created the seven heavens in layers. You will not find any flaw in the creation of the All-Merciful. Look again—do you see any gaps? Then look again and again. Your sight will return to you dazzled and exhausted! ) (Qur’an, 67:3-4)

( He to Whom the kingdom of the heavens and the earth belongs. He does not have a son and He has no partner in the Kingdom. He created everything and determined it most exactly. ) (Qur’an, 25:2)


scienctific facts:

Gravity:

- If gravity were stronger, excessive ammonia and methane would collect in the Earth’s atmosphere, which would have a most damaging effect on life.
- If it were weaker, the Earth’s atmosphere would lose excessive quantities of water, making life impossible.

The Earth’s Distance from the Sun:

- If this were any greater, the planet would grow very cold, the water cycle in the atmosphere would be affected, and the planet would enter an ice-age.
- If the Earth were any closer to the Sun, plants would burn up, the water cycle in the Earth’s atmosphere would be irreparably damaged, and life would become impossible.

The Thickness of the Earth’s Crust:

- If the crust were any thicker, then an excessive amount of oxygen would be transferred to it from the atmosphere.
- If it were any thinner, the resulting amount of volcanic activity would make life impossible.

The Speed at which the Earth Revolves:

- If this were any slower, the temperature difference between day and night would grow enormously.
- If it were any faster, then atmospheric winds would reach enormous speeds, and cyclones and storms would make life impossible.

The Earth’s Magnetic Field:
- If this were any more powerful, very strong electromagnetic storms would arise.
- If it were any weaker, then the Earth would lose its protection against the harmful particles given off by the Sun and known as solar winds. Both situations would make life impossible.

The Albedo Effect (Ratio between the amount of light the Earth reflects and the amount of light that is absorbed):

- If this were any greater, an ice-age would rapidly result.
- If it were any less, the greenhouse effect would lead to excessive warming. The Earth would first be flooded with the melting of the glaciers, and would then burn up.

The Proportion of Oxygen and Nitrogen in the Atmosphere:

- If this were any greater, vital functions would be adversely accelerated.
- If it were any less, vital functions would adversely slow down.

The Proportion of Carbon Dioxide and Water in the Atmosphere:

- If this were any greater, the atmosphere would overheat.
- If it were any less, the temperature of the atmosphere would fall.

The Thickness of the Ozone Layer:

- If this were any greater, the Earth’s temperature would fall enormously.
- If it were any less, the Earth would overheat and be defenceless against the harmful ultraviolet rays emitted by the Sun.

Seismic Activity (Earthquakes):

- If this were any greater, there would be constant upheaval for living things.
- If it were any less, the nutrients at the sea bottom would fail to spread into the water. This would have a damaging effect on life in the seas and oceans and all living things on Earth.

The Earth’s Angle of Tilt:

The Earth has a 23 degree angle of inclination to its orbit. It is this inclination that gives rise to the seasons. If this angle were any greater or any less than it is now, the temperature difference between the seasons would reach extreme dimensions, with unbearably hot summers and bitterly cold winters.

The Size of the Sun:

A smaller star than the Sun would mean the Earth would freeze and a larger star would lead to its burning up.

The Attraction between the Earth and the Moon:

- If this were any greater, the powerful attraction of the Moon would have extremely serious effects on atmospheric conditions, the speed at which the Earth revolves around its own axis and on the ocean tides.

- If it were any less, this would lead to extreme climate changes.

These are just a few of the exceedingly sensitive balances which are essential for life on Earth to have emerged and to survive. Yet even these are sufficient to definitively reveal that the Earth and the universe could not have come into being as the result of a number of consecutive coincidences. The concepts of “fine-tuning” and the “anthropic principle” that began to be employed in the 20th century are further evidence of Allah’s creation. The harmony and proportion therein were described with magnificent accuracy fourteen centuries ago in the Qur’an.

[2T]

4-What Prophet Mohammad told us about tooth brushing

the prophit said "were it not that I might over-burden my people I would have ordered them to use siwak (tooth-stick) at every time of the prayer, and in another transmit, in every ablution"


The miracle of sunnah in tooth brushing "siwaak":

An article written in a German magazine (No.4, 1961)(4) for the scientist Rodat, the chief of the germs institute in Rostok University" I read about the tooth stick that the Arab use as a tooth brush in a book written by a traveler who visited their country; he mentioned it in a sarcasm way, thinking that this action indicates retardation in these people who clean their teeth with a piece of wood in the 20th century, just then I thought maybe there is a scientific secret behind this wooden piece ! The chance came when a colleague in Sudan brought me a number of tooth sticks and I started my researches on them immediately, I crushed it, mixed it with water and put it on culture I realized it had the same effect as pencillin. If people used tooth brushes from hundred years, Muslims have used tooth sticks for more than 14 century.

In observing chemosynthesis for the araak tooth stick we will understand the reason behind the prophet choice which came from Allah, the laboratory researches confirm that the tooth stick, taken from al-araak, contains bog amounts of gall and it is an antiseptic substance which cleans and stops the ulemorrhagia and strengthen it, also the existence of Sinnigrin, a substance that has a very strong smell and taste which helps getting rid of germs

The microscopy on the tooth stick results that there are silica crystals and acidosis calx which is useful in getting rid of stains and dental calculus. In addition, Dr.Tariq al-Korey (6) says that there is chloride with silica; these are substances that provide extra whitening, also a gummatous substance which covers the enamel and protects the teeth against cariosity.It is shown that vitamin C and amine trait the damages on the gum, and sulfuric substance that fights cariosity.

[2T]

5-A Scientific Experience Pushed The Young Researcher To The Adoption Of Islam.

The Muslims praying in The Kiev Islamic Centre always count that a week or a maximum of two weeks don’t pass without at least one Ukrainian adopting Islam in front of them, be it a man or a woman.

But this time the incident was not as usual………instead there came a male Ukrainian Dimitry Boliakov, a physicist who is impassioned with educational researches. He entered in the Mosque with one of the active members of the library of Knowing About Islam which is also found in the Centre.


Dimitry started explaining saying that he works in a guaranteed team of scientific researches in a domain of Vacuum Physics under the leadership of Professor Nikolay Kosinikov who is one of the unique scientists in this area. They are the ones who started a study of modern theory and its experimentations which interpret that land is turning about its pivot and hence managed to confirm it

The theory that was explained by Professor Kosinikov foretold the things that will happen, from the open interpretation of the earth going round its axis. The organization designed a model which was a ball full of molten zinc which is kept in a magnetosphere and by the action of two opposite electrodes and when a continuous electric current is supplied through the electrodes it changes the magnetosphere which causes the ball full of molten zinc to rotate round its pivot and hence this apparatus was named “The Integral Action of Electromagnodinamic” whose general appearance resembles the earth’s rotation round its axis, and in our real life it resembles the solar energy as the moving force that results in the reproduction of magnetic fields that forces the land to rotate round its axis and the speed of the earth’s movement depends on the solar energy’s density and hence it causes the direction of the Arctic.

It has been noted that the earth’s magnetic poles until 1970 has been moving at speed not exceeding 10 Kilometers per year, but in the late years the speed increased until it reached 40 Km per year, while in the 2001 was discovered to be 200 Km for once. This means that under the effect of these magnetic forces the two magnetic forces will surely interchange their positions which implies that the earth’s movement will turn into the opposite direction and as a result the sun will rise from the west.

Dimitry has never come across this information before; neither read nor heard instead it came to him as a result of research experience and experimentation. And when he tried to search in the wholly books and different religions he never found anything guiding to this information except in Islam where he found a prophetic saying that was transmitted by Imam Muslim that Abu Huraira (RAA) said: The Prophet (PBUH) said: (Whoever repents (for his sins) before the sun rises from the west then Allah (SW) will forgive him). Thereby nothing could prevent Dimitry to declare Islam but to come to the Islamic Centre and pronounce the two Testimonies and that is exactly what he did

[2T]

6-The Pairs in Creation

(Glory be to Him Who created all the pairs: from what the earth produces and from themselves and from things unknown to them.) (The Qur'an, 36:36)


Although the concept of ''pair'' or "couple" commonly stands for male and female, the statement of ''from things unknown to them'' has wider implications. Today, one of the implications of the verse has been revealed. The British scientist Paul Dirac, who proposed that matter is created in pairs, was awarded the Nobel Prize for physics in 1933. This discovery, called ''parité'', maintains that matter is paired with its opposite: anti-matter. Anti-matter carries the opposite properties to matter. For instance, as opposed to matter, the electron of anti-matter is positively charged and its protons are negatively charged. This fact is stated in a scientific source in this way:

“...every particle has its antiparticle of opposite charge… …and the uncertainty relation tells us that pair creation and pair annihilation happen in the vacuum at all times, in all places.”(1)

[2T]

7-the iron


Iron is one of the elements highlighted in the Qur’an. In Surat al-Hadid, meaning Iron, we are informed:

…And We sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind.... (Surat al-Hadid: 25)

The word “sent down” particularly used for iron in the verse, could be thought of having a metaphorical meaning to explain that iron is given to the service of people. But when we take into consideration the literal meaning of the word, which is, “being physically sent down from the sky”, we realize that this verse implies a very significant scientific miracle.

This is because modern astronomical findings have disclosed that the metal of iron found in our world has come down from the giant stars in outer space.

The heavy metals in the universe are produced in the nucleus of big stars. Our solar system, however, does not have a suitable structure to produce iron on its own. Iron can only be produced in much bigger stars than the sun, where the temperature reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amount of iron exceeds a certain level in a star, the star can no longer bear it and eventually it explodes in what is called a “nova” or a “supernova”. As a result of this explosion, meteors containing iron are scattered around the universe and they move through the void until attracted by the gravitational force of a celestial body.

All this shows that the iron metal did not form on the earth but was carried from exploding stars in space via meteorsand was “sent down to earth” exactly the same way as stated in the verse: It is clear that this fact could not have been scientifically known in the 7th century, when the Qur’an was revealed.

( And We sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind.) (Surat al-Hadid: 25)

In addition, the 25th verse of Surat al-Hadid, which refers to iron, includes two interesting mathematical codes. Surat al-Hadid is the 57th Surah in the Qur’an. The numerical value of the word “Al-Hadid” in Arabic, in other words its Abjad, is the same number: 57. The numerical value of the word “Hadid” alone is 26, and 26 is the atomic number of iron.

[2T]

8-orbits

While referring to the sun and the moon in the Qur’an, it is emphasized that each moves in a certain orbit.

( It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon.They swim along, each in an orbit.) (Surat al-Anbiya, 33)

It is mentioned in another verse too that the sun is not static but moves in a certain orbit:

( And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing.) (Surah Ya Sin, 38)

These facts communicated in the Qur’an have been discovered by astronomical observations in our age. According to the calculations of experts on astronomy, the sun is traveling at the enormous speed of 720 thousand kilometers an hour in the direction of the star Vega in a particular orbit called the Solar Apex. This means that the sun travels roughly 17 million and 280 thousand kilometers a day. Along with the sun, all planets and satellites within the gravitational system of the sun also travel the same distance. In addition, all the stars in the universe are in a similar planned motion.

[Zek]

:D No argument here man. The US is a large country with lots of ignorant people, especially in Texas. Thats not to say everyone is that way though, and other countries have their own share of ignorance as well.

yep ;)

but most of the world's population is pretty ignorant not looking far from their backyards...

[Sebastian]

8-orbits

While referring to the sun and the moon in the Qur’an, it is emphasized that each moves in a certain orbit.

( It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon.They swim along, each in an orbit.) (Surat al-Anbiya, 33)

It is mentioned in another verse too that the sun is not static but moves in a certain orbit:

( And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing.) (Surah Ya Sin, 38)

These facts communicated in the Qur’an have been discovered by astronomical observations in our age. According to the calculations of experts on astronomy, the sun is traveling at the enormous speed of 720 thousand kilometers an hour in the direction of the star Vega in a particular orbit called the Solar Apex. This means that the sun travels roughly 17 million and 280 thousand kilometers a day. Along with the sun, all planets and satellites within the gravitational system of the sun also travel the same distance. In addition, all the stars in the universe are in a similar planned motion.

...what you're trying to manifest here is scholastics...nimesh wrote the same stuff about the Vedas that they invented the theory of relativity thousands of years ago...:D...scholastics is a "science that is based on scientific evidenses but is compatibile with the religious principles and criteriums...and these stuff arent wrote in the Curan for the first time they are mentioned IN the Scholastic system that was invented by the catholics to destroy the theory of the atoms created from Democrit..in the first place...but this is no proof that will score a Goal for Religion....;)....when it didnt worked they returned to their usual method by burning the scientists...becouse they laughed at their"scientific proof of God"...in neither of my posts i said that there's no God...what im trying to point is that all of the religions base their arguments ion belief which is nothing but a subjective vision of what they want to see i...that exists only in their heads....devious said that no one knows how God thinks or what he does...but the coran and the Bible are full of "Gos wants this...God will do this and that...he hates this he loves that"...they speak as if they are his ministers of foreign and internal afairs...they say no one knows God but they believe that becouse they read something in some "holy"book who is written by some"prophets"who God chosed...who were "friend "with God...and he reveiled to them like Moses who slimbed on Sinay and wrote the ten comandments...and Mohammed who was uneducated who couldnt read or write but when God gave him the revelation he became the wisest...as if he was blind or he couldnt talk so a miracle happened and then he become normal...any one with below awerage intellect can lurn to read and write for less than a year...and it's obvious that he was extremely intellegent like all the"prophets"...all religions claim that God will save them if they believe in him and in his prophets who are representatives of Him...as if he would find it hard to reveal to all people and say what he wants to say...so there has to be a chosen one like in the Matrix or in the Dune...:rolleyes:...i said that i dont believe in you're God...who is manipulated by you're belief as if he is some child who cant read between the lines...i said to Nimesh that there is some force that no one knows about and that it has chosen to stay like that...perhaps that power created our mind and nature for us to configure it...like the dialecticiaNS did and they have roots from Heraclit the first dialectitian but like you he was inconsistent with his dialectics...there's some onthology here by me...but that's far from you're scholastic"evidence"...i dpont search for God and i dont think that no one understand what that Absolute is like Ainstain reffered...but that's Parsecs away from what you're prophets said...and it has nothing to do with the cross...the devil stoning which is the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen or bowing down to a God that exists only in their heads...even the scientists knows that there's some energy...but they understood all that by watching the nature and configuring it...that is the rational way...what people thought that was made by God the thunders...the floods and every other Natural catastrophic from which religions are based on...retional people explained that and configured all that...devious told me that i said what God thought like what he will do or he wont do...i used analogies...when you speak of something that cant be expirianced and transcedent...my analogy for this is
a blind man comes to who ahs been blind by his birth and asks you what the blue color looks like...you cant explain that to him...there's no way...so you use analogy..it's Like the Sky" he sas"oh well" then another blind man comes to you and asks the same question...so you use the same method but a bit modificated...you say like the Sea...and on the next day you see these two people who are hitting each other with botlles on their heads and they yell to each other...it's like the sea...no it's like the sky you damn moron...and they kill each other an dit matters not...
...all of those prophets all of their allegories and methaphores are useless when there's a word for the Absolute...i laugh at the atempts in the holy books when they speak of God....they know God as much as we do...and the Prophet Mohammed and Buda and Jesus...they were incredibly wise people...but that doesnt guarantee that they was the chosen ones...if the Absolute wants to reveal him self he will do that to all people in order to save them...not to hide behind some man who is just as pathetic as all of us...this analogy creates an image of the religious people...everyone of them knows that he's closer to God(although they claim that they dont know God)they are convinced that they are members of the TRUE religion and that they will be saved...

COLOR="Blue"]( It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon.They swim along, each in an orbit.) (Surat al-Anbiya, 33)[/COLOR]

this is so unconsequent...you're mixing dialectic materialism with methaphisics....that's just as oposite and paralogical as when mixing fire and ice and saying that they can coexist...it's as diferent as it can be...the wrtitters of Curan took those theories from the scholastics theologies...it has been done before the Islam was created and that happened 622 years after the christianity...in that time there were some suggestions and understandings of Astronomy which the Catholics reconstructed in apstract and fantasy blatering the Astrology....you see with this you cant prove a thing you're only falling in to an Onthological and Methaphisical trap...
...and dude...the iron was invented becouse as a causal consequence from the Curan???...pal there was Iron centuries before Christ...what are you saying amn...this is so naive...this is outrageous...

6-The Pairs in Creation

(Glory be to Him Who created all the pairs: from what the earth produces and from themselves and from things unknown to them.) (The Qur'an, 36:36)


Although the concept of ''pair'' or "couple" commonly stands for male and female, the statement of ''from things unknown to them'' has wider implications. Today, one of the implications of the verse has been revealed. The British scientist Paul Dirac, who proposed that matter is created in pairs, was awarded the Nobel Prize for physics in 1933. This discovery, called ''parité'', maintains that matter is paired with its opposite: anti-matter. Anti-matter carries the opposite properties to matter. For instance, as opposed to matter, the electron of anti-matter is positively charged and its protons are negatively charged. This fact is stated in a scientific source in this way:

“...every particle has its antiparticle of opposite charge… …and the uncertainty relation tells us that pair creation and pair annihilation happen in the vacuum at all times, in all places.”(1)

...this is the dialectic matherialism...it isnt written in the Curan but in the Jing Jang philosophy not religion...mileniums ago before the Curan....Paul Dirack you say????the positive electron is called positron and a proton that is negatively charged doesnt exists...the atom is composed from Proton and neutron the ellectron is the one who is charged negatively and it orbits arround the atom...man saying all these stuff on internet arent impressive...everyone can think that i went i saw on some site and pasted them here...but this is what interests me the most...atomistic and genetics...and what you're saying is even more bizare..so God said in the Curan for the ellectrons first eh???...Durac proved them with the cosmic beams when they heit the atmosphere they hit with such intensity that it creates anti electrons called positrones...this is the first principle of the dialectic matherialism..and it's called the unity of th oposite...and that isnt created by religion it has been a theory created by Democrit who first said about the atoms(who were more like molecules but it's revolutionary enough in a time when everyone searched for a God that created everything in seven days he thought rationaly)but now religious fanatics doesnt end here...they say who created matter...just as when they said that earth was flat and that the atoms theory is the most stupid thing that exists and the rest of their nonsense...when the scientists configue how the matter and the universe is created like they configured the genetic code of the living beings then you will create another reason and ask what was before the universe creation...and how you're conscious being created that all becouse he had nothing else to do and he wanted to create things to "kill his time"....now if some one sas that i dismiss God but earlier i said that there's some energy the absolute...and i contradict my self...dont get confused pals...that isnt the same like you're conscious God who spoke of the hell"and how you're prophets described him as some Sadist to whoom if you dont bow you will be thrown in to hell....dont say that...it will be extremely stupid and it would an eveidence that some one didnt understood what im saying....it's the natural way...not a conscious mind like us when we create things to make our existance easier...and what is the natural world???it's that what soround us...the God didnt created the earth and the planets...like it is said in the Bible long before people understood what a thunder means...but now you'll say another thing he created the matter...and for that the scientific evidence will arrive soon...and then you will speak before the universe...when God planed all this and asked for advise from his advisors....

and the last of you're arguments i wont even comment...it's just so naive...as if Curan was the first religion book...it apeared the last of all the "holy"books pal...and in that time the civilisation had some understandings...even before Jesus...Tales predicted the eclipse of the sun with scientific and mathematic calculations...and people thought that he was a prophet or a wizard....but simply they couldnt understand the power of the free intelect who walks on his own path....people who arent programed with the Religious softwear that makes humans like robots and doesnt live space for anything else...cant understand that...the Bible said this is the ultimate truth...no one should add more or take anything from this...this is the ultimate truth....now dont say that the christians and budists are ignorants to claim this but the muslims are smarter and wiser than these religious fanatics...religion existed mileniums before the islam...and all that wich you said has been acumulated by the Curans writters like in every other religion...all religions has something that unites them...H E L L people do strange things when they are being frightened with the ancient "prophesy"the Hell and the judgment day...devious admited that unconsciously or unintentionaly when he said that he ahs nothing to lose if he believes but only to gain his eternal life if there's a chanse for the judgment day to exists...it's all based on belief again...it is said that hell is what you fear the most...from what you fear the most that will torment you in hell for an eternity...aspe