Group A

[stuglue]

Please discuss your team and the group here

Teams
Germany
Costa Rica
Poland
Ecuador

[BRISTOLUK]

Please discuss your team and the group here



Taking an idea from Ronni:

Germany has an easy time here with no opposition...just like last time.


I'll wait for the draw too. :)

[Ronni]

Taking an idea from Ronni:

Germany has an easy time here with no opposition...just like last time.


I'll wait for the draw too. :)
You may have bought your cristal ball in the same shop as I did!

Germany
Costa Rica
Poland
Ecuador

They could hardly have had it easier.
They were very likely to take one of the two south americans, and they got absolutely the weaker one. They got one of the supposedly easiest europeans, and got a Concacaf team instead of an african, and still not the US.
Lucky Germany ... as so often.

[S4cePL]

Ha I love talking smack too so hear me out: Germany will win the group and Poland will be the runner up. We already beat Ecuador 3-0 last month and Costa Rica should not be a problem if we play a solid game. Germany will be tough but the rivalry and fact that a couple of our players play in the Bundesliga will make for an interesting game. I understand that Poland exited the first round in WC 2002 but that will not repeat this summer. That I can assure you of.

[footballcrazy]

this should be an easy one-two for germany and poland. they are very similar teams so its hard to say who'll top teh group even tho i give germany the edge because of the home crowd.
i feel so bad for poor old costa rica and equador. they are gonna get hammered. two of the worst teams in the cup. hopefully beating teams like those dont let the germans become too overconfident for the second round.

[supersjd]

this should be an easy one-two for germany and poland. they are very similar teams so its hard to say who'll top teh group even tho i give germany the edge because of the home crowd.
i feel so bad for poor old costa rica and equador. they are gonna get hammered. two of the worst teams in the cup. hopefully beating teams like those dont let the germans become too overconfident for the second round.

i agree. germany and poland on top for this one.

[stuglue]

Germany easily to top the group BUT i see Costa Rica edging out Poland.

[brazuca5copas]

1° Germany
2° Ecuador

[ShaBBa]

1. Germany
2. Poland

[contemporarydog]

Yep, that really is a piece of piss for Germany. They'll cruise that, with Poland comfortably in second.

[stuglue]

Ecuador can't rely on the altitude for this one,bottom of the group.Interesting to see how Germany deals with Poland though,that will be the crunch match.Remember they will both want to avoid England in the 2nd round.

[Lallou]

Ecuador can't rely on the altitude for this one,bottom of the group.Interesting to see how Germany deals with Poland though,that will be the crunch match.Remember they will both want to avoid England in the 2nd round.

This group is too easy.. it couldn't be easier if it were fixed..

[mrks]

hmmm, i dont think like u guys. germany is to bad to be so good how u say that here. it will be a hard way to become the 1 place in group a. i know the germans very good, and poland is that wc better than all other b4. :)

[toronto_soccer]

This group is too easy.. it couldn't be easier if it were fixed..

lol. ;)

1 germany
2 poland

[frankie0006]

costa rica has no chances, ecuador neither.
Poland is not a great team, but will pass to the next round as 2nd, and will match with England/Sweden. end of story for Poland there.
Germany will have a tough second phase, england or sweden could beat them, they have better teams right now, but the host luck could help.

[stuglue]

I'm not discounting Costa Rica,the last WC they played some attractive football against Brazil,you can see they play with the Latin style and against Turkey they were unlucky not to win.

[stuglue]

i'm surprised at the lack of response from the Germans here.They have got it made!

[BRISTOLUK]

i'm surprised at the lack of response from the Germans here.They have got it made!



I have noticed there don't seem to be many German members on this network

[S4cePL]

I'm not discounting Costa Rica,the last WC they played some attractive football against Brazil,you can see they play with the Latin style and against Turkey they were unlucky not to win.

Yes they were impressive last WC but i think that they are a worse team this time around. During their qualifiers they tied both Cuba and Trinidad and Tobago. They also lost to Guatemala twice. Poland also beat Ecuador 3-0 last month in a friendly match. Poland is now familiar with the gameplay of the South Americans and the CONCACAF side will not pose a serious threat. This aside, we will approach both games with caution so as not repeat WC 2002. Germany is the only real threat for us and after that it will either be England or Sweden. Both teams are hard opponents but we shall see what happens. Overall I am very happy with our groupbecasue it could have been a lot worse.

[stuglue]

Poland should comfortably get out of this group.Costa Rica(aside from Germany)are the biggest threat but Poland look a leaden footed particularly that last qualifier against England.I don't see them suffering like they did at the last WC when they were poor.Ecuador away form altitude are awful.

[Siurpo]

Yours opinions have very dissapointed me.I think that Poland and Equador are the best teams in the 2006 world cup.The match witch Englad was just the smoke curtain!The Poland team have got the most incredible players in the world:Greg Rasiak,and Thomas Frankovski.And they have got Dudek,he is much better than all goalkeepers in Liverpool(witch AC Milan 3:0 in first half,in second Dudek King).Few words about Equador now.They have got many valuable players (Hernando Gutierez,Pigo del Passo and the best now Chuchulungma Bravo).I suppose most of them are players in the polisch league.So Poland first place in group A and Equador witch "Chuchu" is runer up.Germany ends WC in the group stage.

[stuglue]

Good to see someone with a sense of humour

[stuglue]

Germany 3 Costa Rica 2
Poland 1 Ecuador 1

Germany 2 Poland 1
Costa Rica 2 Ecuador 1

Germany 4 Ecuador 2
Costa Rica 2 Poland 2

[juanca]

i dont know....

im Ecuadorian...but i have to say its gonna be tough, but there is reason for optimism.

we play poland first, and we deffinetely are looking for pay-back after out 0-3 loss to them here in a friendly.

im hoping for a tie.

against costa rica, i think we can win.

against germany, i hope they win there 1st two games that way, theyll rest there star players against us, and we can salvage a draw.

im hopeing for the best.

[Pfeife]

I have noticed there don't seem to be many German members on this network


I'm here! ;)

Germany will finish first with 9 points and a goal relation of 7-2.

[Ronni]

this should be an easy one-two for germany and poland. they are very similar teams so its hard to say who'll top teh group even tho i give germany the edge because of the home crowd.
i feel so bad for poor old costa rica and equador. they are gonna get hammered. two of the worst teams in the cup. hopefully beating teams like those dont let the germans become too overconfident for the second round.
I don't agree Costa Rica and Ecuador will get hammered. They got the group with two europeans that won't be able to hammer them.
Both latin americans play that "old brazilian style", and both europeans play that "old german style". Of course at a lower level.
Germany won't probably have problems for qualifying. From the other 3, imo Poland has more chances than Costa Rica, and Costa Rica more than Ecuador. But one out of these 3 with an excellent form during the tournament will be able to qualify along with Germany.
In the next phase it should be end station though. But possibly also for Germany!

[Ronni]

I'm here! ;)

Germany will finish first with 9 points and a goal relation of 7-2.
Imo pretty realistic.

[ricoo9]

This group is defenitly the easiest one, it doesnt get easier except maybe the portugal group, BUt Germany will win all of their group games and be first


Germany 1 - 0 Poland
Germany 4 - 0 Ecuador
Germany 2 - 0 Costa Rica

Germany and Poland advance

[Stryker06]

i'm still more optimistic that germany'll take the group instead of poland. but i'm really looking forward to germany - poland as both will be eager to win to avoid, most ceratinly, england in the next round.

[ricoo9]

i'm still more optimistic that germany'll take the group instead of poland. but i'm really looking forward to germany - poland as both will be eager to win to avoid, most ceratinly, england in the next round.

Germany is the home team, there is no way they will lose in the first round, Germany will be the top team of this group

[ado10]

I don't agree Costa Rica and Ecuador will get hammered. They got the group with two europeans that won't be able to hammer them.
Both latin americans play that "old brazilian style", and both europeans play that "old german style". Of course at a lower level.
Germany won't probably have problems for qualifying. From the other 3, imo Poland has more chances than Costa Rica, and Costa Rica more than Ecuador. But one out of these 3 with an excellent form during the tournament will be able to qualify along with Germany.
In the next phase it should be end station though. But possibly also for Germany!
for once I'm with you Ronni!
but still I think that Poland can even take this group but like you said, in the next round it will be end station for both of them!

[Stryker06]

Germany is the home team, there is no way they will lose in the first round, Germany will be the top team of this group

what uber weak arguments.

[juanca]

i know ill prob end up getting some heat for this, but i am Ecuadorian, and i am confident that my Country will make it to the 2nd round.

i strongly believe we can beat costa rica, and poland isnt a brazil or italy, therefore, they are beatable. Germany is another story, they are a very dificult opponent, but perhaps well face a allready classified germany in the 3rd match, where they mite rest there key players, leaving us with a "weaker" germany squad if u will.

i dont know, im not saying were gonna win it all obviously, but im confident in the team doing well.

[Stryker06]

let's just put it this way, poland have the quality to beat germany. sorry dude, no hope for ecuador this time. try again in 50 yrs time.

[Ronni]

i know ill prob end up getting some heat for this, but i am Ecuadorian, and i am confident that my Country will make it to the 2nd round.

i strongly believe we can beat costa rica, and poland isnt a brazil or italy, therefore, they are beatable. Germany is another story, they are a very dificult opponent, but perhaps well face a allready classified germany in the 3rd match, where they mite rest there key players, leaving us with a "weaker" germany squad if u will.

i dont know, im not saying were gonna win it all obviously, but im confident in the team doing well.
The home side can't afford resting key players. I don't think they will. Also because with the new rules you're never sure you'll qualify until the last match is played. Just consider that Germany will try to avoid England. But they can't afford losing points to Ecuador for that. The title isn't their only goal (they know it's too difficult) - they have their fading prestige to defend.

Ecuador and Costa Rica can try to qualify with 4 points. It is not probable but still possible. I don't think any of these will be able to make more than this. Prepare your calculator beside your tv. Depending on the result against Poland (if Ecuador is defeated, they can say good-bye), your calculator will be your best friend.

[nachi88]

I must admit the draw is favourable to us.

We should qualify at first position from this group. The game with Poland will be tough, as many Poles play in the Bundesliga, and are very familiar with conditions here.Costa Rica Germany will be a high scoring game, and we'll probably see Germany win 4-2 or something of that sort. Equador, I cannot comment on, as I havent seen or read much about them. But i expect a win here too. But I can see us through that one. England or Sweden are both formidable opponents, and I am sure that game would test us more than the group games. But I see us beating them too, if we play our cards right. SGE, wanted top spot in Group B to avoid Germany. Lets , for once, he gets what he wants. :D

We have both their numbers in the WC anyways :lol:

[Ronni]

England or Sweden are both formidable opponents, and I am sure that game would test us more than the group games. But I see us beating them too, if we play our cards right. SGE, wanted top spot in Group B to avoid Germany. Lets , for once, he gets what he wants. :D

We have both their numbers in the WC anyways :lol:
Are germans confident that they'll be able to do in the WC what they couldn't do in the last 5 years, i.e. to defeat a top team?
In order to get to the semis if you're as lucky as last time, you could need even 2 such victories to get on top 4!
Or are you rather hoping to get Paraguay and Mexico (again!)?

[juanca]

IF YOU ARE POLISH OR GERMAN, PLEASE HELP.....


I am Ecuadorian and am trying to gather info on poland and germany. i know germany has alot of good players, but i dont know much about poland or there style of play. how does germany play too? please help guys....

[Fenerliyim]

1st Poland
2nd Germany

[DLW558]

Germany is the country for soccer. Did u know that half of all the players participating in world cup play for a team in germany? That is soccer country. I admit they did get lucky in their group. They have the weapons to take it all the way. USA aint worth shit. LOL.:) .

[Stryker06]

half of all the players that will play in the world cup? the final world cup squads for each country won't be realised until may next year so what the bloody hell are you smoking kid?

[Davebr]

Germany always do well in the WC at home they will go at leats until the semis
Poland is overrated, Costa and Equador can beat them in a good day.

[Ronni]

Germany is the country for soccer. Did u know that half of all the players participating in world cup play for a team in germany? That is soccer country. I admit they did get lucky in their group. They have the weapons to take it all the way. USA aint worth shit. LOL.:) .
you mean half of the teams in the WC have at least one player in one of the german leagues? It should be this way, otherwise it sounds like nonsense. But I wouldn't still be sure if even this way is correct.
Any concrete data? Aren't other leagues (Spain, England, Italy) in the same situation?
Does the strenght of the home league really play such a role? (Spain ?????)

[nachi88]

Are germans confident that they'll be able to do in the WC what they couldn't do in the last 5 years, i.e. to defeat a top team?
In order to get to the semis if you're as lucky as last time, you could need even 2 such victories to get on top 4!
Or are you rather hoping to get Paraguay and Mexico (again!)?

I surely wouldnt mind a Paraguay and a Mexico ( it was USA we played in the quarters last time, we played mexico in round of 16 in wc98), but lets not take any credit away from them, as they truly deserved to be there. Mexico are ranked 6th and many would call them a 'top' team. They were seeded while the draws were made for the world cup this time around.

Holland hasnt won a world cup in the last .... lets see... 3 million years, but they still are confident of winning this one. Germany can beat a 'top' team, when it has to. I am optimistic and see a great chance of that happening this summer.

[Stryker06]

those seeding sometimes don't mean a thing. weren't korea and japan seeded in 02? they were hosts, but whatabout their talent? okay, it turned out the ref helped korea go all the way to the semi's. but once back down to earth, nobody is expecting them to very far in this cup.
mexico have go their results outside the world cup these past years to thank for their seeding. for a so-called top team, they've nothing but disappointed in the past few cups.

i don't think holland is confident to win this one. coz there's brazil, then there's the rest. but if the ladder allows it, it should be a holland - brazil final all the way.
germany can't beat a team, even when they try, let alone a top team. or did euro 2004 not happen for you?
also in the 02 cup did germany face light to middle weight opponents. their only "real" opponents were brazil. and the germans stood no chance. the final was totally one-sided.

[Ronni]

I surely wouldnt mind a Paraguay and a Mexico ( it was USA we played in the quarters last time, we played mexico in round of 16 in wc98), but lets not take any credit away from them, as they truly deserved to be there. Mexico are ranked 6th and many would call them a 'top' team. They were seeded while the draws were made for the world cup this time around.

What would you prefer personally? Considering that Germany is not going to the WC as the superpower supposed to hammer everyone, would you prefer to have some more chances facing Mexico/Portugal (and also chances of ashaming yourselves) or risking a little bit more with Argentina/Holland, but still being able to count on an elimination with honour or even a success consider higher?



Holland hasnt won a world cup in the last .... lets see... 3 million years, but they still are confident of winning this one.
There are a handfull of country confident on this.
Holland has again a good team. I give them more or less the same chances as Germany.



Germany can beat a 'top' team, when it has to. I am optimistic and see a great chance of that happening this summer.
For this affirmation I imagine you are considering the fact that Germany wasn't able yet to beat them in the last times but isn't also being defeated easily like some years before - what is indeed an improvement. Or are you considering the home advantage being more significative in a WC?

Because they "had" to beat a top team a couple of times in these last years, and still they weren't able to.

Are you counting on improvement from now? Do you think they'll reach their Confed Cup performance level or even get better?

[nachi88]

What would you prefer personally? Considering that Germany is not going to the WC as the superpower supposed to hammer everyone, would you prefer to have some more chances facing Mexico/Portugal (and also chances of ashaming yourselves) or risking a little bit more with Argentina/Holland, but still being able to count on an elimination with honour or even a success consider higher?

Elimination with honour is an oxymoron. Elimination is dishonour, if anything, according to me.For instance losing the wc02 final was not honourable in itsself, but reaching the finals then was. Ideally, I would find it hard to chose from the option given to me by you.
But I'd be as glad if we beat Argentina as I would be if we beat Mexico in the round of 16. I would also be equally saddened by both.Ofcourse, losing to ach rivals ( Holland, England etc ) can be more painful pill to swallow.



Are you counting on improvement from now? Do you think they'll reach their Confed Cup performance level or even get better?
Yes, I am sure they will reach their confed cup performance, and be better by the ime the wc starts. Its not a question of 'if' but 'when'.. if they will improve once the tournament starts or in the comming freindlies.

But one thing is sure, I love it when all you guys write us off, It gives me all the more pleasure when we do good, agaianst all ods.

[Pfeife]

Well, you can never predict with 100% safety how a team will perform, the only thing i can say is that the way it looks like at the moment, looking at the quality of the players, this will be Germanys best team since 1996 (when we won the European Championship).
But we will have to see how Klinsmann is able to make the team "work"- if you look at France for instance, you can see that also a team full of world class players can play badly when the coach is an idiot.

The only real weak point of the German NT will be the central defender position besides Mertesacker- if Metzelder or Wörns don't recover and get their old form back.
Besides that, I think Germany's team is strong in all aspects:

-------------------Kahn-------------------
Friedrich--Mertesacker--Metzelder-----Lahm
-------------------Frings-------------------
Borowski---------------------Schweinsteiger
-------------------Ballack-------------------
---------Podolski----------Klose

[Ronni]

Besides that, I think Germany's team is strong in all aspects:

-------------------Kahn-------------------
Friedrich--Mertesacker--Metzelder-----Lahm
-------------------Frings-------------------
Borowski---------------------Schweinsteiger
-------------------Ballack-------------------
---------Podolski----------Klose
a very strong team for playing the Bundesliga. They would have no problems on winning it.
But for the World Cup? Hmmmmm ...

Germany's best player will be the home advantage.

[nachi88]

a very strong team for playing the Bundesliga. They would have no problems on winning it.
But for the World Cup? Hmmmmm ...

Germany's best player will be the home advantage.

???
The team posted by Pfeife, has players who can be considered amongst the best in the world in the respective position they play in, apart from Klose and Mertesacker ie. Though I just might replace Hamann with Borowski ( though Borowski is playing very good at the moment, Hamann I find as an extremely reliable DM. In fact, Borowski can be used as DM when we need to score, as he goes ahead at times and takes good shots, Hamann when we have to purely defend)

Home advantage does play a big part, but if you just glance through football history books, Germany does well in extremely hostile environment also. Euro cup in England,WC in Italy, EC in Italy etc. Can't attribute all our sucess to home advantage. We'r not England or France, who win only at home.

Also, as I said earlier, Germany dont always have to have star players or headlines grabbers to win. The team is the star, it was, it is and will always be. Individual brilliance always loses to organised team work. Be it sport or otherwise.

[Ronni]

???
The team posted by Pfeife, has players who can be considered amongst the best in the world in the respective position they play in, apart from Klose and Mertesacker ie. Though I just might replace Hamann with Borowski ( though Borowski is playing very good at the moment, Hamann I find as an extremely reliable DM. In fact, Borowski can be used as DM when we need to score, as he goes ahead at times and takes good shots, Hamann when we have to purely defend)
I would say Ballack, Deisler (why don't you consider him????) and Kahn.
From all the rest I don't think any other would be in a "top 3" of the WC.
Perhaps we could make a thread with this, just to see what people think ... sort of "top 3 on each position among the 32".



Home advantage does play a big part, but if you just glance through football history books, Germany does well in extremely hostile environment also. Euro cup in England,WC in Italy, EC in Italy etc. Can't attribute all our sucess to home advantage. We'r not England or France, who win only at home.

I don't deny that. Germany never needed the home advantage to make it well. But this time they will. They don't have the same quality as they had before.



Also, as I said earlier, Germany dont always have to have star players or headlines grabbers to win. The team is the star, it was, it is and will always be. Individual brilliance always loses to organised team work. Be it sport or otherwise.
Indeed Germany is the only team that reached the final in the last 3 editions of the WC without having individual stars. Or actually they did ... the goal keeper!
But I think that most teams have already checked that. Teams like Brazil learned how to transform their individual brilliance again into victories. I think that we're leaving the times when organized team work alone could beat individual brilliance, by adding adapted tactics to the latter. Imo this belongs to the new phase, and Brazil coming back is a sign of this change.

[Pfeife]

a very strong team for playing the Bundesliga. They would have no problems on winning it.
But for the World Cup? Hmmmmm ...



I just wanted to add that I appreciate your opinion and your style of discussing, but since you mentioned your opinion that the Brazilian league is better than the Bundesliga, you have lost A LOT of credibility in my eyes imho.

In Brazil, there are playing hundreds of Brazlian players, in germany there are a few dozen. Still, the Brazilian coach will have 4-5 players from the Bundesliga in his squad for WC2006 and no player from the Brazlian league.

Can you explain me why Parreira would do so, if he didn't think that the Bundesliga is a much, much stronger league than the Brazilian one?

[wolverine]

In Brazil, there are playing hundreds of Brazlian players, in germany there are a few dozen. Still, the Brazilian coach will have 4-5 players from the Bundesliga in his squad for WC2006 and no player from the Brazlian league.

Can you explain me why Parreira would do so, if he didn't think that the Bundesliga is a much, much stronger league than the Brazilian one?
That's b'cos their better players come from Bundesliga and as a team Brazil is bloating with talent and can't have more than 22 or 25 players on the squad.
But this has got nothing to do with the strength of the league. U shud remember that these players had initially played for Brazillian clubs. The main reason y SAmericans play in Europe is the money factor. Y do u think there's a sudden rise of Chelsea in Europe? 'Cos Abhrahamov (hope I got him right) came in and threw money to buy the best players. Why is it that despite arguably having the two best clubs in Europe (Madrid and Barcelona) Spain has not been able to translate it to their NT? Even without their home-grown talent. SA leads Europe in the inter-continental championships by 24-22.

Club football is a very professional game and is driven by money. The best clubs in the world will also be the richest. Unless and until some kind of salary cap is introduced the poor clubs will continue to be poorer.

[Ronni]

I just wanted to add that I appreciate your opinion and your style of discussing, but since you mentioned your opinion that the Brazilian league is better than the Bundesliga, you have lost A LOT of credibility in my eyes imho.

In Brazil, there are playing hundreds of Brazlian players, in germany there are a few dozen. Still, the Brazilian coach will have 4-5 players from the Bundesliga in his squad for WC2006 and no player from the Brazlian league.

Can you explain me why Parreira would do so, if he didn't think that the Bundesliga is a much, much stronger league than the Brazilian one?

The question of brazilian (and also argentinian) players abroad is very complicated. We should consider that no other country in the world has a large basis on good football talents like Brazil. And in my opinion the difference in figures is enormous - this won't reflect on the top that much (i.e., players at NT level), but still I would say that the basis on "1st league" valuable players is many times larger than in Germany. What happens - one club knows that someone is offering good money for one of their players, while they know they'll have a couple of youngsters who in 1 year could substitute him perfectly. So they sell the player and get the money. The enormous offer on players make the prize lower.

What happens is that in Brazil if one player is called one single time to the NT, his prize raises automatically. Luxemburgo was accused of getting money from a couple of clubs for calling some of their players once (and personally I believe he did it) when he was the NT coach. As soon as the player makes his first appearence on the NT, he's immediately caught by someone abroad. For the brazilian club it's a wonderful deal.
This is exactely what happened with many of these guys playing in Europe right now. We've just heard about Cicinho going to Real Madrid. He had a couple of wonderful years at Atletico Mineiro, moved to Sao Paulo, played also there a couple of perfect years, was finally called to the NT, and after some time he's in Europe.
So we shouldn't forget that all these guys are playing some years in Brazil before they get to Europe.

Now there's one more thing to consider: because of this "problem" of the wide basis, Parreira would have at least 40 players that would be able to play for the brazilian NT. But you know as well as I do that for making a team you need consistance. And since Brazil are the title holders, the coach doesn't have the pressure of having to change everything in the team. So he made very few tests and "closed" the team. On the qualifying for the last WC this was exactely the problem: it's almost unbelievable to consider that they used more than 60 players during that period (most of them based in Brazil)! Well, the "Luxemburgo Connection" was perhaps one of the causes, but anyway this is the trend. And this doesn't work at all.
And there is one reason for prefering players based in Europe. Like in most other countries (Germany is an exception!), the pressure over the coach for calling this or that player is huge. And if you consider that in Brazil this means automatically cash for the clubs, and there are also huge internal rivalries among the several brazilian states, it's easier for the coach to stick to the players abroad, because at least this problem is solved. In the past this was a huge problem indeed. There were always complains about coaches calling more players from one specific state, or leaving other ones. Now this problem is fortunately gone.

So believe me, there are a lot of good football players in the brazilian league that you'll be probably seeing somewhere in Europe soon. And they're the ones making the brazilian league.
As far as I follow it, I don't think there is another Ronaldinho, or another Kaka already at a developed age. But when they reach Europe, they have already played in Brazil at least a couple of seasons. If you have a look on the news, players at that level aren't that easy to take from Brazil. Paris SG needed long time to get Ronaldinho from Gremio, Milan the same for getting Kaka from Sao Paulo. Robinho lived really a nightmare to get from Santos to Real Madrid. Guys at that level are different. But Roque Juniors, Juans, Lucios, Ze Robertos, Gilbertos etc, there are others in Brazil reaching a similar level. And they could probably be seen in a german team soon.

Anyway the reason why I see the brazilian league that high isn't really the quality, but the balance of the teams. And as I understand, this is for you also a good parameter for measuring the excitement of a domestic league.
And also due to the structure of the brazilian state, there is no other league (among the "major" ones) with so many teams at the same level. This makes every year the fight for the championship a surprise - until the middle of the championship you don't know exactely which are the teams that will fight for it. And this is really exciting.

[Pfeife]

The question of brazilian (and also argentinian) players abroad is very complicated. We should consider that no other country in the world has a large basis on good football talents like Brazil. And in my opinion the difference in figures is enormous - this won't reflect on the top that much (i.e., players at NT level), but still I would say that the basis on "1st league" valuable players is many times larger than in Germany.
I agree with you here, Brazils number of top class football players is due to population size, climate and some other factors much larger than Germany's.
BUT that does not say something about the strength of the league, because while in brazil, 98% of the players are Brazilian, in the Bundesliga there are a lot of foreigners playing as well. Hundreds of scouts seek some of the best talents from all over the world and bring them to the Bundesliga- only ca. 50% of the players which are currently playing in the Bundesliga are German.
So, while the Brazlian league loses it's best homegrown players every year, the Bundesliga does not only keep the homegrown talent but also adds new talents from all over the world (also from Brazil, of course).
I don't know how strong you rate Brazils players, but I am deeply convinced that the best players combined from Germany, Holland, Turkey, Balkan nations, Africa, Poland etc. are stronger than 2nd class players of Brazil.



What happens - one club knows that someone is offering good money for one of their players, while they know they'll have a couple of youngsters who in 1 year could substitute him perfectly. So they sell the player and get the money. The enormous offer on players make the prize lower.

What happens is that in Brazil if one player is called one single time to the NT, his prize raises automatically. Luxemburgo was accused of getting money from a couple of clubs for calling some of their players once (and personally I believe he did it) when he was the NT coach. As soon as the player makes his first appearence on the NT, he's immediately caught by someone abroad. For the brazilian club it's a wonderful deal.
This is exactely what happened with many of these guys playing in Europe right now. We've just heard about Cicinho going to Real Madrid. He had a couple of wonderful years at Atletico Mineiro, moved to Sao Paulo, played also there a couple of perfect years, was finally called to the NT, and after some time he's in Europe.
So we shouldn't forget that all these guys are playing some years in Brazil before they get to Europe.

Now there's one more thing to consider: because of this "problem" of the wide basis, Parreira would have at least 40 players that would be able to play for the brazilian NT. But you know as well as I do that for making a team you need consistance. And since Brazil are the title holders, the coach doesn't have the pressure of having to change everything in the team. So he made very few tests and "closed" the team. On the qualifying for the last WC this was exactely the problem: it's almost unbelievable to consider that they used more than 60 players during that period (most of them based in Brazil)! Well, the "Luxemburgo Connection" was perhaps one of the causes, but anyway this is the trend. And this doesn't work at all.
And there is one reason for prefering players based in Europe. Like in most other countries (Germany is an exception!), the pressure over the coach for calling this or that player is huge. And if you consider that in Brazil this means automatically cash for the clubs, and there are also huge internal rivalries among the several brazilian states, it's easier for the coach to stick to the players abroad, because at least this problem is solved. In the past this was a huge problem indeed. There were always complains about coaches calling more players from one specific state, or leaving other ones. Now this problem is fortunately gone.

I know that politics and economical issues are always involved in such decisions, but it would be ignorant to say that teh Bundesliga clubs buy brazilian players only because they play for the NT- before they spend millions of € on a certain player, they observe him for a long time and study his videos. Only when they come after that to the conclusion that the player is good enough for their standards, they will aquire him.
Therefore, the Brazilians which play in the European Top leagues will mostly be the creme de la creme of what Brazil has to offer in terms of football talents. The Brazilian coach will chose them for his squad not only because he wants to prevent problems in the domestic league, but also because he knows that they are the best of what Brazil has to offer and they play in harder competitions.


So believe me, there are a lot of good football players in the brazilian league that you'll be probably seeing somewhere in Europe soon. And they're the ones making the brazilian league.
They, and the other 90% which are not good enough for Europe make the league. There are also a lot of great talents in the dutch league which will soon switch to the European top leagues, still noone (especially not a Dutch) would claim that the Dutch league is stronger than the European elite leagues.

As far as I follow it, I don't think there is another Ronaldinho, or another Kaka already at a developed age. But when they reach Europe, they have already played in Brazil at least a couple of seasons. If you have a look on the news, players at that level aren't that easy to take from Brazil. Paris SG needed long time to get Ronaldinho from Gremio, Milan the same for getting Kaka from Sao Paulo. Robinho lived really a nightmare to get from Santos to Real Madrid.
And in the end, they European clubs always got the player they wanted, didn't they? Besides, I have already explained in another thread that I think that Real Madrids Aquisiton politics are ridiculous in my eyes. Everyone knows how easy it is to cheat these kind of clubs because they always want to present a new "star" player every season and are therefore willing to pay fantastic sums for players which are not even worth half as much.


Guys at that level are different. But Roque Juniors, Juans, Lucios, Ze Robertos, Gilbertos etc, there are others in Brazil reaching a similar level. And they could probably be seen in a german team soon.

Roque Junior has been below average this season in Leverkusen, Juan was not impressive as well and Gilberto was injured for a long time.
But I have serious doubts that Brazil has any other defender of the quality of Lucio, that guy is world class in my opinion and one of the 3 best central defenders on the planet. I would be really surprised if Brazil had a player which ahs been playing on Lucios level for several seasons there.


Anyway the reason why I see the brazilian league that high isn't really the quality, but the balance of the teams. And as I understand, this is for you also a good parameter for measuring the excitement of a domestic league.
Absolutely, and that's what I respect the Brazilian league for. everything is better than that "Juve is leading by 15 points"shit.

And also due to the structure of the brazilian state, there is no other league (among the "major" ones) with so many teams at the same level. This makes every year the fight for the championship a surprise - until the middle of the championship you don't know exactely which are the teams that will fight for it. And this is really exciting.

It's similar in Germany, with the exception of Bayern. They are the best team of the league, but not so dominant so that the league would become boring.
50% of all seasons are won by Bayern, the rest by other (often surprising) teams.
Who would have predicted that Hamburg would be fighting for the title this year?

[Ronni]

I agree with you here, Brazils number of top class football players is due to population size, climate and some other factors much larger than Germany's.
BUT that does not say something about the strength of the league, because while in brazil, 98% of the players are Brazilian, in the Bundesliga there are a lot of foreigners playing as well. Hundreds of scouts seek some of the best talents from all over the world and bring them to the Bundesliga-
this "ties up" the brazilian advantage. Because the Bundesliga doesn't have cash and prestige enough for getting the real "best ones". They go to Spain, England and Italy. Very good players getting to Germany, France, Holland and Portugal use it just as a temporary solution - looking for some more visibility - but their goal is to get to one of the 3 other ones.



only ca. 50% of the players which are currently playing in the Bundesliga are German.
So, while the Brazlian league loses it's best homegrown players every year, the Bundesliga does not only keep the homegrown talent but also adds new talents from all over the world (also from Brazil, of course).
I'm still looking for "real talents" brought to the Bundesliga. The foreigners in Germany are just "medium" players - those you can also find in Brazil. What you can't find in Brazil are Zidanes, Ronaldinhos, Eto'os, Gerrards. But they aren't in the Bundesliga either (and if someone for the reason of being born in Germany is there, he's dreaming of getting out! ;) ).

Foreign players? I wouldn't exchange Tevez for van der Vaart ... nor Klasnic.



I don't know how strong you rate Brazils players, but I am deeply convinced that the best players combined from Germany, Holland, Turkey, Balkan nations, Africa, Poland etc. are stronger than 2nd class players of Brazil.

And I'm deeply convinced that the Bundesliga has to share these best players with other leagues with more financial possibilities, and at the end these best players the Bundesliga has ARE the 2nd class players of these nations, whereas some players in Brazil are 1st class, but aren't still seen so by you and others because the brazilian championship doesn't have the same visibility.
The Bundesliga gets only 2nd class players of 1st class football nations or "the best" from 2nd class football nations.
This is the reality.



I know that politics and economical issues are always involved in such decisions, but it would be ignorant to say that teh Bundesliga clubs buy brazilian players only because they play for the NT- before they spend millions of € on a certain player, they observe him for a long time and study his videos. Only when they come after that to the conclusion that the player is good enough for their standards, they will aquire him.

Calmond's policy was "he's ok, take him. We won't get anything better for this price. In the worst case, we sell him someone and if it wasn't a football deal, it was a financial deal".
There are lots of teams in Europe doing this. They bring even mediocre brazilian players to Europe paying peanuts, get the visibility, and still make money with him. There's always a "small" european nation with place for them, or even a 2nd league in the "big" ones.



Therefore, the Brazilians which play in the European Top leagues will mostly be the creme de la creme of what Brazil has to offer in terms of football talents. The Brazilian coach will chose them for his squad not only because he wants to prevent problems in the domestic league, but also because he knows that they are the best of what Brazil has to offer and they play in harder competitions.

The "creme de la creme" doesn't leave Brazil without playing in the brazilian championship for some years. Brazilian clubs know which are the players they can substitute, and which are the best ones.



They, and the other 90% which are not good enough for Europe make the league. There are also a lot of great talents in the dutch league which will soon switch to the European top leagues, still noone (especially not a Dutch) would claim that the Dutch league is stronger than the European elite leagues.
Yes, and players like Kaka or Ronaldinho were born on a Monday, started playing football on a Wednesday and on Saturday they were already playing in an european league.

Brazil is "a little bit" bigger than Holland, and I mean also "football Brazil".
And yet the dutch league is considered a good one.



And in the end, they European clubs always got the player they wanted, didn't they?
They do. The future of ALL excellent brazilian players is in Spain or Italy.
German clubs never manage to grab these guys from Brazil. They even don't try, because they know it's not for their pockets.



Besides, I have already explained in another thread that I think that Real Madrids Aquisiton politics are ridiculous in my eyes. Everyone knows how easy it is to cheat these kind of clubs because they always want to present a new "star" player every season and are therefore willing to pay fantastic sums for players which are not even worth half as much.

Real Madrid makes lots of money with the parallel business, i.e., outside the field. Money made with prestige is also money. They buy prestige and multiply what they paid with their policy.



Roque Junior has been below average this season in Leverkusen, Juan was not impressive as well and Gilberto was injured for a long time.
But I have serious doubts that Brazil has any other defender of the quality of Lucio, that guy is world class in my opinion and one of the 3 best central defenders on the planet. I would be really surprised if Brazil had a player which ahs been playing on Lucios level for several seasons there.

The best defender in the brazilian league is unfortunately for Parreira not brazilian.
Actually this is already a tradition.



Absolutely, and that's what I respect the Brazilian league for. everything is better than that "Juve is leading by 15 points"shit.

It's similar in Germany, with the exception of Bayern. They are the best team of the league, but not so dominant so that the league would become boring.
50% of all seasons are won by Bayern, the rest by other (often surprising) teams.
Yes, I know your opinion on this point, and I imagine you like it too.



Who would have predicted that Hamburg would be fighting for the title this year?
They're fighting for a CL place.
The championship is already decided.

[Pfeife]

this "ties up" the brazilian advantage. Because the Bundesliga doesn't have cash and prestige enough for getting the real "best ones". They go to Spain, England and Italy. Very good players getting to Germany, France, Holland and Portugal use it just as a temporary solution - looking for some more visibility - but their goal is to get to one of the 3 other ones.


We have already discussed that topic to a certain degree, the Bundesliga is not as much dominated by certain clubs as the serie a and La Liga are.
The huge clubs of Spain and Italy soak up 70% of the money of what is earned in these leagues, but don't represent them in overall strength.
Juventus, Milan, Inter, Barca and Real- these are the clubs which might be interesting for players from the Bundesliga.
Do you think a keyplayer from Schalke 04 (currently 4th in the Bundesliga)would join AC Fiorentina (currently 4th of the serie a) because of the prestigue or sportive perspective?
Would a talented player from Borussia Dortmund see an offer from Sampdoria Genova as a possibility to play for a "better" club?
Do you think the players from Bayer Leverkusen dream at night abut playing for the big club AC Siena?

The answer to all these questions is of course: No.
The top clubs of Spain and Italy might be better than the German ones; the overall strength of the league isn't.




I'm still looking for "real talents" brought to the Bundesliga. The foreigners in Germany are just "medium" players - those you can also find in Brazil. What you can't find in Brazil are Zidanes, Ronaldinhos, Eto'os, Gerrards. But they aren't in the Bundesliga either (and if someone for the reason of being born in Germany is there, he's dreaming of getting out! ;) ).
I have already explained that issue in another thread as well, several players from TOP National teams will include dozens of players from the Bundesliga.
if you call these players "medium", you are diminishing the quality of the Brazilian, Dutch, French, Argentinian, etc. and of course the German national team.



Foreign players? I wouldn't exchange Tevez for van der Vaart ... nor Klasnic.
That's your opinion. And i wouldn't exchange Makaay for tevez. So we all have our opinion.
But why don't yu name a few more "top" foreign players from the Brazlian league? I'm thrilled to hear their names.



And I'm deeply convinced that the Bundesliga has to share these best players with other leagues with more financial possibilities,
Are you talking about the Premier league?
Because it's the only league with more financial possibilities (= higher turnover) than the Bundesliga.


and at the end these best players the Bundesliga has ARE the 2nd class players of these nations,
That's pure polemic and you know it.
The past World - and European Champions had all several players from the Bundesliga in their squads.


whereas some players in Brazil are 1st class, but aren't still seen so by you and others because the brazilian championship doesn't have the same visibility.
I'm sure that if there are extremly talented players in the Brazilian league, they won't stay in Brazil too long (maybe swap to germany, where they will play at the peek of their career?).



The Bundesliga gets only 2nd class players of 1st class football nations or "the best" from 2nd class football nations.
This is the reality.

Nonsense doesn't become true by repeating it.


Calmond's policy was "he's ok, take him. We won't get anything better for this price. In the worst case, we sell him someone and if it wasn't a football deal, it was a financial deal".

Callmund bought Lucio, Ze Roberto and also Franca (top goal scorer of the brazilian league, utter bullshit in the Bundesliga). These players where by far the best available at that time in the brazilian league.


There are lots of teams in Europe doing this. They bring even mediocre brazilian players to Europe paying peanuts, get the visibility, and still make money with him. There's always a "small" european nation with place for them, or even a 2nd league in the "big" ones.

Not all Brazilian players in Europe are good, but on average better than the ones who have to stay in Brazil.


The "creme de la creme" doesn't leave Brazil without playing in the brazilian championship for some years. Brazilian clubs know which are the players they can substitute, and which are the best ones.

The 3 most widely known players of Brazil at the moment might be Ronaldinho, Ronaldo and Kaka. Everyone of them left Brazil before the age of 21.


Real Madrid makes lots of money with the parallel business, i.e., outside the field. Money made with prestige is also money. They buy prestige and multiply what they paid with their policy.

It's a short-term strategy because a club that only tries to get attention by buying players and not by winning titles will end like Inter Milan.

[holicman]

Germany and Ecuador.

Ecuador finished 2nd or 3rd in the South American qualifiers, they have their best ever team in their history competing, and they did beat both brazil and Argentina in making it to the world cup.

They are heavy underdogs to go far.

[wolverine]

Germany and Ecuador.
Ecuador finished 2nd or 3rd in the South American qualifiers, they have their best ever team in their history competing, and they did beat both brazil and Argentina in making it to the world cup.
They are heavy underdogs to go far.
Unfortunately for them the WC is not played 5000 ft above sea level :) But yes, they won't be push overs they've a better team than '02. Germany is assured to take the first spot. Its pretty even for the 2nd spot.

[surfcostarica]

hello people
I've been reading all your posts and all of them seem very interesting ones,
my opinion is that germany has the bigest chance to win the group, and is almost sure they will kick everyone's butt, now poland and ecuador are almost the same, different skills but I think they are equal.
Costa Rica is not the strongest in this group but I must tell you that we have good players with a lot of experience and we can give a surprise since everyone thinks we are going to get our ass kicked in 3 games,, remember at the and are 11 players against 11 players besides that nothing else counts.
We have had surprises in other cups and anything can happen
nobody has ever won a game without playing it first!!!
thanks

[Batata]

Please discuss your team and the group here

Teams
Germany
Costa Rica
Poland
Ecuador
Here we are again and I love it.
It's almost impossible to say who will win the group and who is going to be second. Too much time left before the first kick of WC 2006, but prediction is prediction and what's the heck I can try as well.
1. Poland, just because they have very fast young team. At this moment probably few top goalkeepers in the world. The biggest weaknes is defense.

2/3. Germany, last two years very weak team. They are the host, so the crowd will help them, and of course Olivier Kahn. Very over rated team!

3/2. Ecuador, if they will get lucky maybe this team will kick Germans out (don't forget Korea and their games against Italy and Spain, host is host)

4. Costa Rica, maybe they are good. They can show some good football, but not against Poland, Ecuador and Germany

[stuglue]

Here we are again and I love it.
It's almost impossible to say who will win the group and who is going to be second. Too much time left before the first kick of WC 2006, but prediction is prediction and what's the heck I can try as well.
1. Poland, just because they have very fast young team. At this moment probably few top goalkeepers in the world. The biggest weaknes is defense.

2/3. Germany, last two years very weak team. They are the host, so the crowd will help them, and of course Olivier Kahn. Very over rated team!

3/2. Ecuador, if they will get lucky maybe this team will kick Germans out (don't forget Korea and their games against Italy and Spain, host is host)

4. Costa Rica, maybe they are good. They can show some good football, but not against Poland, Ecuador and Germany
I have to disagree with pretty much everything you wrote in this post.Ok the Germans are'nt the force of the late 80's to mid 90's but they sure have enough to get past all 3 of these teams.I have to say i think Poland are the worst European nation in this WC.They may have had a few personnel changes but the style and pace of football they play does'nt look different from 2002.They deceived many in the qualifiers.Ecuador have to be the worst of the 4 teams in this group.They took advantage of playing 2,500 metres above sea level at home yet performed poorly out of Quito.Costa Rica might surprise the Poles and Germans,they have the Latin style about them.

[Batata]

Too bad we can't see World Cup every 2 years, but there are lots of football between the biggest single sport event in the world. It's very hard to predict anything, particularly 5 months before first kick. But what’s the heck I can try as well.

1. COSTA RICA - South American style, without big stars. Can they deliver good world class football?

2. ECUADOR - They can surprise everyone. Brazil and Argentina lost to them and I am not buying it was on very high elevation. Win is win doesn’t matter what. Players of Ecuador are very good, but can they play against Europeans?

3. GERMANY - Not because they are good, but because this nation is a host. The most over rated team of 2006 World Cup. However Germans always deliver something good.

4. POLAND - Many people think that’s the weakest European team. Maybe, but if they lost to one of the best teams and huge favorite England 2:1, the gap between the best and the worse is very marginal.

My prediction:
1. POLAND
2. GERMANY
3. ECUADOR
4. COSTA RICA

[Ronni]

1. COSTA RICA - South American style, without big stars. Can they deliver good world class football?
they don't need to deliver good world class football to make it well in this group. Good organized football, some interesting plays and a little bit consistence will be enough even to pass the round. For any of the 4.



2. ECUADOR - They can surprise everyone. Brazil and Argentina lost to them and I am not buying it was on very high elevation. Win is win doesn’t matter what. Players of Ecuador are very good, but can they play against Europeans?
Brazil and Argentina were defeated more by the height than by Ecuador. Of course they wouldn't have reached it if they were crap, but they aren't a team that can beat Brazil and Argentina in normal conditions. The question is not if they play south americans or europeans. The question is if they play their opponents at over 10,000 feet high or not. Just look at that: in the qualifying they got 23 points out of 27 at home, and just 5 as visitors. And 3 of these 5 were in ... La Paz, even higher than Quito. So where they play a team that is much weaker, but without the height advantage.
On the Copa America they were the only team that lost ALL their matches, being of course the LAST team in the tournament. Recently they were defeated by Poland and ... Uganda!
Take them out of the height and they show you they're a pretty mediocre team.
They can make good in this weak group, but I wouldn't overestimate their results in the qualies. A win IS NOT a win. FIFA has already spoke about the possibility of setting limits on height and other factors, but they will never do it, because who cares if Bolivia and Ecuador are the teams that take advantage of this. But just to consider it was already a sign.



3. GERMANY - Not because they are good, but because this nation is a host. The most over rated team of 2006 World Cup. However Germans always deliver something good.
They are not overrated. Actually nobody expects much from them, but just because their previous talent levels were so high, and this time they're far behind it. This still doesn't mean they don't have a good team. It's good. It's not good for the "Deutscher Fussballbund" symbol and the three stars they carry on their chest, but they're still a respectable team, and also playing at home, with the home crowd backing them. And never forget: the crowd will be patient. They know they don't have the same material like in 1974 and won't disperate if they aren't perfect (they're not South Americans or South Europeans!). So I don't know if there will be so much pressure. They could be playing in perfect conditions!



4. POLAND - Many people think that’s the weakest European team. Maybe, but if they lost to one of the best teams and huge favorite England 2:1, the gap between the best and the worse is very marginal.
I agree they're the weakest european team. England's result was considered a bad one for what they could, and Poland's one was considered a good one. This shows that the gap is still enormous.



My prediction:
1. POLAND
2. GERMANY
3. ECUADOR
4. COSTA RICA
I think that Ecuador and Costa Rica will fight for the 3rd place, and with some luck one of both could even surpass Poland. But the 1st place will be taken out from Germany only if a disaster occurs. In normal conditions, a 9-point issue.

[wolverine]

But the 1st place will be taken out from Germany only if a disaster occurs. In normal conditions, a 9-point issue.
Yep..two spots that we can predict with confidence are Brazil winners grp F and Germany winners Grp A. Two more Spain winners Grp H and France winners Grp G cud be added to the list if both these teams play as they are on paper.

[danster]

Ridiculously easy group for the Germans. Poland would probably take second, or maybe if Costa Rice play extremely well they could pip them.

[Zlatan Rules]

yes this one should germany win easy, if they dont the hole world will laugh!

Cheers!

[tronxz28]

It is going to be difficult but I hope Costa Rica does well.

I will be supporting the Ticos.

What I hope: (not realistic)
1.- Germany
2.- Costa Rica

[polska2006]

first know something about the poland national team then reply..... best site www.polishsoccer.com

[S4cePL]

LOL So what is your username on the Polish socer forums? Mine is Wyszkowiak and yeah I have an identity crisis. :D

PS I don't mind that we are flying under the radar so to speak. We beat Ecuador this past year convincingly and Costa Rica is one of the worst sides from CONCACAF (I believe that they struggled during the qualifiers, losing to Cuba and maybe Guatemala as well as tying other mediocre teams). Germany will be the real test but I continue to believe that they can be beaten. It will be really hard seeing as how they are hosts and all but I'm sure that if our boys are healthy and inspired, a tie or even a win is a feasible prediction.

[polska2006]

LOL So what is your username on the Polish socer forums? Mine is Wyszkowiak and yeah I have an identity crisis. :D

PS I don't mind that we are flying under the radar so to speak. We beat Ecuador this past year convincingly and Costa Rica is one of the worst sides from CONCACAF (I believe that they struggled during the qualifiers, losing to Cuba and maybe Guatemala as well as tying other mediocre teams). Germany will be the real test but I continue to believe that they can be beaten. It will be really hard seeing as how they are hosts and all but I'm sure that if our boys are healthy and inspired, a tie or even a win is a feasible prediction.
i am polandcanwintheworldcup#2........ dude personally poland can make this there group or let it fall all away with giving up like agaisnt korea:annoyed: but to me our attack is so strong we can beat germany and ***k home advantage we will have the best fan support there..... Bialo Cerzwoni :mad2: and also anything could happen but yea costa rica may have good players but our players paly in germany, england,netherlands,POLSKA,france,scotland...... and no krauts or spiks or volcanoes will change my mind :yell:

[rushdentillidie]

1st Germany
2nd Either Poland or Equador

[scyzorek]

costa rica has no chances, ecuador neither.
Poland is not a great team, but will pass to the next round as 2nd, and will match with England/Sweden. end of story for Poland there.
Germany will have a tough second phase, england or sweden could beat them, they have better teams right now, but the host luck could help.

What? I think Poland is a good team. You should not count them out. All of you need to do some research before you come on this forum and start running your mouth.

Some people know some players, but can't even spell their names. Also, Gregorz Rasiak is not the star player. Whoever said that needs to go over to www.fifa.com and learn more about the Polish national team.

Goalies:
Jerzy Dudek (Liverpool FC - EPL)
Tomasz Kuszczak (West Brom - EPL)
Artur Boruc (Celtic FC - SPL)

Defenders:
Baszczynski (Wisla Krakow, on trial at West Ham FC - EPL)
M.Zewlakow (Anderlecht - rumoured to Celtic FC)
M. Jop (FK Moskwa)
Klos (Wisla Krakow)
Lewandowski (Shakhtar Donetsk)
Bak (Qatar)

Midfielders:
Krzynowek (Bayern Leverkussen - rumoured to HSV and Portsmouth)
Kosowski (Southhampton FC)
Ebi Smolarek (Borussia Dortmund)
Szymkowiak (Tranzbonar)
Sobolewski (Wisla Krakow)
Mila (Austria Wienna)

Strikers:
Zurawski (Celtic FC)
Frankowski (Wolverhampton FC)
Rasiak (Tottenham Hotspurs)
Niedzielan (NEC)
Saganowski (Vitoria Gumiaraes)
Olisadebe (Portsmouth FC)


Tomasz Kuszczak EPL save of the season so far:
http://www.files.bz/files/777/kuszczak%20save.gif


I'm not saying POLAND is amazing. I'm saying they are good. Have a good team. And too many people are counting them out too early. Especially when no one knows who the players are.
Don't count Poland out against England as well. Last games were both only 2-1 for England. One which was an own goal. Poland didn't play their best that game. However, on an occasion like the World Cup, don't count them out.

Biggest weakness Poland has would be the defense.

Germany vs. Poland.
Dortmund. Payback.

[nachi88]

i am polandcanwintheworldcup#2........ dude personally poland can make this there group or let it fall all away with giving up like agaisnt korea:annoyed: but to me our attack is so strong we can beat germany and ***k home advantage we will have the best fan support there..... Bialo Cerzwoni :mad2: and also anything could happen but yea costa rica may have good players but our players paly in germany, england,netherlands,POLSKA,france,scotland...... and no krauts or spiks or volcanoes will change my mind :yell:

Another realistic poster. Do you really think Poland will have more support in Germany than Germany????? Our players play in Germany too :), so you dont have any advantage in that respect.
Also, cut down on racist stereotypes.

[Bavaria]

Germany will reach the finals...
ur gonna say, Bavaria said so

[Ronni]

What? I think Poland is a good team. You should not count them out. All of you need to do some research before you come on this forum and start running your mouth.
you can't expect people to "research" before giving a subjective opinion about a team. Most of us have seen some qualifying matches, and some polish players, and I imagine nobody was overwhelmed. We tend not to compare Poland to other "first level" europeans like Germany, Italy, England, Holland, but to the others like Czech R., Sweden, Serbia, Croatia, Switzerland, Ukraine. And these presented more interesting football. What also counts a lot is the lack of very well known players in the polish team.

I still think Poland should get to the second round, but just because it's a very easy group. Anyway it won't be enough for getting the first place from Germany, and no matter who reaches the top on group B, unless it's Trinidad Tobago, I think Poland has very few chances of reaching the quarters.



Some people know some players, but can't even spell their names. Also, Gregorz Rasiak is not the star player. Whoever said that needs to go over to www.fifa.com and learn more about the Polish national team.

I like when some fans from these "good but not title candidate" teams come out - indeed I'll try to inform myself about the team.
Anyway I think that Poland is not really the team we're not able to memorize the names. I have much more problems with Serbia/M, and indeed I finish by not considering their players much. But this is a valid argument anyway.



Dudek, Kuszczak, Boruc, Baszczynski, Zewlakow, Jop, Klos, Lewandowski, Bak, Krzynowek, Kosowski, Smolarek, Szymkowiak, Sobolewski, Mila, Zurawski, Frankowski, Rasiak, Niedzielan, Saganowski, Olisadebe

never heard about most of them. Most of them playing in teams we don't see in the CL, in not top-leagues or at least not in top teams, so how should we know them? Actually I know Smolarek - but most probably because of his father, who was really good. Let's see ...



I'm not saying POLAND is amazing. I'm saying they are good. Have a good team. And too many people are counting them out too early. Especially when no one knows who the players are.
I think most people are counting them out too early because this time there are many good teams in the WC.



Don't count Poland out against England as well.
I do! No doubt about that!



Last games were both only 2-1 for England. One which was an own goal. Poland didn't play their best that game. However, on an occasion like the World Cup, don't count them out.
still England won both matches without playing well ...
Have a look at their names and you'll tremble imagining they could start playing well together. I'm not an english fan and all I have is to hope they don't reach a perfect combination in time for the WC. But I fear they will.



Biggest weakness Poland has would be the defense.
thanks for the info. I'll try to inform myself better.



Germany vs. Poland.
Dortmund. Payback.
no chance. They won't wipe you out, but playing well and with a lot of luck Poland could get a draw. Still I don't believe it myself. Not the team I saw against England. And not against the team I saw in the Confed Cup.

[zerimar]

Prediction:

Germany
Poland
Ecuador
Costa Rica

Ecuador will make a heroic gesture, but not enough to qualify.
Costa Rica, like most CONCACAF teams, is basically DOA.

[scyzorek]

you can't expect people to "research" before giving a subjective opinion about a team. Most of us have seen some qualifying matches, and some polish players, and I imagine nobody was overwhelmed. We tend not to compare Poland to other "first level" europeans like Germany, Italy, England, Holland, but to the others like Czech R., Sweden, Serbia, Croatia, Switzerland, Ukraine. And these presented more interesting football. What also counts a lot is the lack of very well known players in the polish team.

I still think Poland should get to the second round, but just because it's a very easy group. Anyway it won't be enough for getting the first place from Germany, and no matter who reaches the top on group B, unless it's Trinidad Tobago, I think Poland has very few chances of reaching the quarters.


I like when some fans from these "good but not title candidate" teams come out - indeed I'll try to inform myself about the team.
Anyway I think that Poland is not really the team we're not able to memorize the names. I have much more problems with Serbia/M, and indeed I finish by not considering their players much. But this is a valid argument anyway.


never heard about most of them. Most of them playing in teams we don't see in the CL, in not top-leagues or at least not in top teams, so how should we know them? Actually I know Smolarek - but most probably because of his father, who was really good. Let's see ...


I think most people are counting them out too early because this time there are many good teams in the WC.


I do! No doubt about that!


still England won both matches without playing well ...
Have a look at their names and you'll tremble imagining they could start playing well together. I'm not an english fan and all I have is to hope they don't reach a perfect combination in time for the WC. But I fear they will.


thanks for the info. I'll try to inform myself better.


no chance. They won't wipe you out, but playing well and with a lot of luck Poland could get a draw. Still I don't believe it myself. Not the team I saw against England. And not against the team I saw in the Confed Cup.

Agree.

But, Poland can beat Germany, I don't see why not. Thinking positive. This will be one of the biggest rival games in the 2006 WC. Poland will be as much as home as Germany will. Especially that its Dortmund, Smolarek will be getting some more support from the German fans as well.
There will be lots of people from Poland in Germany.

Anyway I agree with most of the things you said plus I don't want to argue.

[scyzorek]

never heard about most of them. Most of them playing in teams we don't see in the CL, in not top-leagues or at least not in top teams, so how should we know them? Actually I know Smolarek - but most probably because of his father, who was really good. Let's see ...
.

Dudek - CL
Boruc - CL
Baszczynski - CL & UEFA Cup
Zewlakow - CL
Klos - CL & UEFA Cup
Lewandowski - UEFA Cup

Krzynowek - CL
Sobolewski - CL & UEFA Cup
Mila - UEFA Cup
Szymkowiak - UEFA Cup

Zurawski - CL & UEFA Cup
Olisadebe - CL
Saganowski - UEFA Cup

[surfcostarica]

LOL So what is your username on the Polish socer forums? Mine is Wyszkowiak and yeah I have an identity crisis. :D

PS I don't mind that we are flying under the radar so to speak. We beat Ecuador this past year convincingly and Costa Rica is one of the worst sides from CONCACAF (I believe that they struggled during the qualifiers, losing to Cuba and maybe Guatemala as well as tying other mediocre teams). Germany will be the real test but I continue to believe that they can be beaten. It will be really hard seeing as how they are hosts and all but I'm sure that if our boys are healthy and inspired, a tie or even a win is a feasible prediction.



you can not jugde or believe taht one team is going to play as good or as bad as they did on the qualification run......
look my friend, Costa Rica is going to play different in the world cup games it is going to be another level , some of the best players were injured during the qualificartion run ,, we never played our best soccer and you see we made that world cup playing extremetly bad really bad aand i mean bad,,, but believe my friend that is changing now and it will change even more you'll see it,, everyone thinks Costa Rica is really weak and well it does not matter because thing are different and surprises do exist!!!
think before writting, WE NEVER LOST AGAINST CUBA!!!! we tied them and by that time our league and players were starting a new season so that means that they were out of shape and their soccer level was down, now is different
finishing everyone is looking to CR like nothing and a weak team but reallity is different,, keep thinking like that and you'll be surprised!!!
thanks !

[surfcostarica]

one last thing Costa Rica is not one of the worts team in concacaf, we are just behind USA and MEX ,, we are third in this area ,, there are worts teams like trinidad and tobago they really suck,, and also guatemala , jamaica, el salvador, panama, all those are way behind Costa Rica!!

[Ronni]

But, Poland can beat Germany, I don't see why not. Thinking positive. This will be one of the biggest rival games in the 2006 WC.

I'll be rooting for you. I do hope the germans do it well in the WC (without winning it!) because I'll be in Germany and it's always better for the atmosphere if the hosts are getting good results. But I imagine I won't be able to avoid being happy if they get kicked out of the tournament early, even if I'll regret this later.



Poland will be as much as home as Germany will. Especially that its Dortmund, Smolarek will be getting some more support from the German fans as well.

Forget it. Borussia fans will support Germany 100%, they will probably applaud Smolarek when he enters the field and will just hope he doesn't get injured.



There will be lots of people from Poland in Germany.
There will be lots of people from all over the world in Germany. Don't expect poles to fill any stadium more than other fans.



Dudek - CL
Boruc - CL
Baszczynski - CL & UEFA Cup
Zewlakow - CL
Klos - CL & UEFA Cup
Lewandowski - UEFA Cup

Krzynowek - CL
Sobolewski - CL & UEFA Cup
Mila - UEFA Cup
Szymkowiak - UEFA Cup

Zurawski - CL & UEFA Cup
Olisadebe - CL
Saganowski - UEFA Cup
It may be my fault not to be the sort of fan who follows all CL matches, including the first elimination phases (where teams like Wisla and others in your list finish their CL adventure), but besides Dudek (I do remember this goal-keeper), I don't recall having seen any of the others, or at least having noticed them particularly. I should at least remember Zewlakow's name, since I remember watching an Anderlecht match. Is he a starter?
The name Krzynowek sounds a bit familiar, but I haven't been following Bayer in the last times - and I don't know if he's one of their most known players - so that's why I can't link the name to the player myself.

I admit I'm not one of the fans in this forum who know lots of details of european clubs, but besides the few I saw in the qualifying, this polish team will be new for me.

[surfcostarica]

poland will be out of the party (1rst round),,
second place will be either ecuador or Costa Rica

[juanca]

I think Ecuador can make it to the 2nd round.

god willing, with a good and heroic effort against germany, we can salvage atleast a point. im confident we can beat costa rica. In regards to poland, i hope the team has enough courage to demonstrate that after losing 3-0 at home, that it will not go down as easy as before. that game in Guayaquil was a horrible game either way, the conditions sucked and neither sides sent there star players.

IMO:

germany-9points
Ecuador-4points
Poland-4points
Costa rica-sorry ticos

Germany will win all its matches.
costa rica will lost all its matches.
both ecuador and poland will beat costa rica, but they will tie each other.
therefore, the difference will be on goals. and i believe germany will make more goals against poland than against Ecuador.

JC

[~[u]ltraS.]

1. Germany
2. Poland
3. Costa Rica
4. Ecuador

[S4cePL]

In regards to poland, i hope the team has enough courage to demonstrate that after losing 3-0 at home, that it will not go down as easy as before. that game in Guayaquil was a horrible game either way, the conditions sucked and neither sides sent there star players.i believe germany will make more goals against poland than against Ecuador.
JC

don't know about Ecuador but for that November '0 friendly that we ended up winning 3-0, Poland fielded its best squad. Our 11 star players played for the majority of the game and they played very well considerign the crappy pitch and weather conditions. I read an article written several days after this game that basically expressed the Ecuadorian frustration over the weather conditions. If I remember correctly, then in effect blamed the weather for humiliating loss. Becasue the field was covered with massive puddles and resulting mud, the Ecuadorians were not able to play their typical "shortball/passing" game that they are accustomed to, resolving to long aerial passes instead. This is a valid argument ,however, it is one that Poland can make as well even though we won the game. We certainly did not use the poor conditions to our advantage and we definetely were also handicapped by them because unlike in 2002, when we relied on long passes from our defense and midfield to Nigerian-born striker olisadebe who was fast and could catch the opposing defense offguard, we no longer employ this tactic. Why? Well not onlly becasue Olisadebe no longer plays for the Poland National Team but also due to the tremendous talent that we currently have at the forward positions. Zurawski and Frankowski both played together for years at Wisla Krakow and they know each other very well. They have improved greatly from past years and are arguably our national team's best strikers. So saying that Ecuador couldn't paly its tactical game because of the bad weather is true to a point sicne Poland was also handicaped byt the same problem, obviously to an extent.

I have to disagree with you over your second point of having Poland consede more goals than Ecuador against Germany. Why would you say that? Poland's defense is shaky but who is playing closer to home? We will undoubtedly have a large number of fans at the Germany game and we will be familiar with the climate and conditions (whateve that means since its just summer in central Europe). I don't know much about the Ecuadoraind efense but I know that your country's high altitude did play a big role in helping the team overall during the qualifiers. So again I can't see why Ecuador would concede less goals than Poland agaisnt the host nation. This group may appear to be weak on paper but I'm that all of the games will be entertaining and hard fought. Everyone is entitled to their opinin and is expected to uphold their national loyalties but I think that Poland is guaranteed a second place in its group if all our players are healthy and psychologically fit to play. I can't wait till June!

[Pelé_Eterno]

I can change my mind untill the World Cup begins. But now, I think Germany has a easy path here.
Germany first.
Poland second.

[juanca]

S4cePL-i cant wait till june either!;)

Anyway, i know most people dont know much about Ecuadorian soccer, and only believe Ecuador classified because of its "ecological advantages" , but here is the recap of Ecuadors performance at korea/japon 2002.....

during qualifying rounds for korea/japon 2002, we DIDNT beat brazil or argentina, even when playing at home, with our 5000ft "advantage" behind us. our squad back then was weaker than it is now.

during the actual WC, our FIRST game was against ITALY! imagine being a 5yr old and having to fight a 200lb 25 yr old, that was the task at hand. a 2-0 loss was respectable. against mexico, we were originally winning 1-0, but the mexicans came back and beat us 2-1. against croatia, a team that finished 3rd at france 98, we beat 1-0.
ALL in ALL, id say our 1st WC campain wasnt a bad one.

All im saying is that im full aware that Ecuador probably wont win the WC(even though its nice to dream) but that they deffinetely have proved them selves, and have top notch players to go head on with germany and poland, and costa rica.

im not buying into that whole 5000ft above sea level claim, because why is it that Ecuador had never beaten argentina or brazil in all of its previous matches in quito??? seriously, if the altitude was really EVERYTHING, we "should" have a perfect record at home against brazil/argentina, shouldnt we? again, im not saying were the best, but we deffinetely are where WE deserve to be.

I know were considered a "new" team, but as far as progress goes, i think that any neutral S. american fan must say that colombia/chile/peru all need to restructure and rebuild. fortunately for Ecuador, weve been doing that, and are now reaping the benefits.

I CANT WAIT TILL JUNE!!!

[stuglue]

Ecuador has improved since 02.For one the midfield is stronger.I kept tabs on the qualifiers when they were trying to get to Korea and i really wanted them to get there(did the same with Venezuela,unfortunately they failed at the last hurdle).It's a poor excuse that you gave as regards playing Italy.Senegal had to face France in there first game and they won.Strength is what is needed by Ecuador and i still think this is what they will lack this summer.The Ecuadrian people will have higher expectations will put added pressure on the team.Stand up and be counted or sink like a stone.

[Stalyn_X]

Grup A
Ecuador 1
Germany 0

[Stalyn_X]

Ecuador Is Qualifying No Matter Wwhat

[Ronni]

Anyway, i know most people dont know much about Ecuadorian soccer, and only believe Ecuador classified because of its "ecological advantages" , but here is the recap of Ecuadors performance at korea/japon 2002.....

during qualifying rounds for korea/japon 2002, we DIDNT beat brazil or argentina, even when playing at home, with our 5000ft "advantage" behind us. our squad back then was weaker than it is now.
I'm not sure. From what I saw, I'd put them on the same level. Perhaps even lower. Now they know better how to take advantage of the home matches. In 2000 I had a better feeling about them.



during the actual WC, our FIRST game was against ITALY! imagine being a 5yr old and having to fight a 200lb 25 yr old, that was the task at hand. a 2-0 loss was respectable.
What kind of comparison is this? What does this exactely mean to be "new" in the WC? Most italian players were also new in the tournament. And moreover, it's always an advantage for any "weaker" team to meet a "stronger" one on the very beginning of the tournament, since the teams couldn't get a routine yet, so the difference tend to be smaller. Moreover, Italy is known for having a bad start in major tournaments - whatever this means. Anyway, no matter how much I was rooting for Ecuador, unfortunately they were overplayed by a not at all brilliant Italy.
Like Stuglue said, newcomers don't necessarily do bad in their first match - like Senegal, that won. In 2002 Slovenia were defeated only 1-3 to Spain, in 1998 Japan 0-1 to Argentina, Jamaica 1-3 to Croatia. If you see, a 0-2 to Italy is a "normal" result. And actually a bad one, if you want to make more than just arrive last in the group.



against mexico, we were originally winning 1-0, but the mexicans came back and beat us 2-1.
Mexico wasn't brilliant either. However you lost.



against croatia, a team that finished 3rd at france 98, we beat 1-0.
this was really impressive. But we shouldn't forget that Ecuador was playing "free from any pressure", the opposite of Croatia, and they still had an ear at the other match being played in parallel. But I won't take this from you. It was really good. I was just sorry that you made it possible for Italy to go further, and I would have preferred Croatia to qualify.



ALL in ALL, id say our 1st WC campain wasnt a bad one.
Indeed it wasn't bad at all. But still you were the last in your group. The group was a little bit more difficult than this one now, that's why you could have some chances this year. But still this will be very very difficult. I hope you do, and I think you have more chances than in 2002. But just because the group is a little bit easier.



All im saying is that im full aware that Ecuador probably wont win the WC(even though its nice to dream) but that they deffinetely have proved them selves, and have top notch players to go head on with germany and poland, and costa rica.
I hope you do, but I doubt. Perhaps you indeed beat Costa Rica, and who knows in a good day you have a good result against Poland.



im not buying into that whole 5000ft above sea level claim, because why is it that Ecuador had never beaten argentina or brazil in all of its previous matches in quito???
this is not true.
In the qualifying for 2002 you beat Brazil 1-0, and you couldn't beat Argentina because they had a splendid form in the qualifying, and only Brazil could beat them. But in 1998 you had already beaten Argentina 2-0 in Quito too. Before that, Ecuador was still playing much more qualifying matches in Guayaquil at sea level, until they "woke up" to the advantage they were losing when not playing higher. So in 2002 they started playing exclusively in Quito and finally they were rewarded with the WC. And the most interesting thing is that in 2002 they made only one match at sea level - the one against Bolivia (the team that doesn't suffer the altitude like the others). It's more than clear that they learned to use the arms they have. It's perfectly legitimate.
We shouldn't illude ourselves. If we compare the away records of the teams in the qualifying, we see that Ecuador is just better than Bolivia, and much lower than all the others. If we take out the match in Bolivia, the other team that plays with the altitude advantage, this are the percentage of away points:

Venezuela 39%
Colombia 38%
Brazil 30%
Paraguay 29%
Peru 28%
Argentina 26%
Chile 26%
Uruguay 21%
Ecuador 8%
Bolivia 0%
You see - both "altitude" teams are basically able to make points only over 10,000 feet high. All others are able to make points no matter where, but according to their quality.

As I stated before, if we remember the Copa America, Ecuador was the LAST team of all participants, having worse results than the same Bolivia, Costa Rica, and even the "B" team of lack-of-depth suffering Paraguay.
If we exclude the baseball Venezuela, Ecuador is the only team that never even arrived on the 3 first places of Copa America. Bolivia did it twice - they even won it once, but both times playing their altitude advantage.

You really should "buy into that altitude claim". Because that's the truth. Ecuador would NOT have qualified to the WC if they had played their home matches in Guayaquil. And they know it very well.

Bolivia and Ecuador finally learned how to take advantage of the altitude, and in the last 4 WCs, 3 times one of both qualified, eliminating the other better teams of the continent. And when they arrive to the WC, they consistently finish last in their group, what never happens to other teams of the continent. The exception was Colombia in '94, but it was a major surprise. Other south american teams have better rates for passing the round even than european teams - and if they don't manage it, at least they're 3rd.
But when Ecuador and Bolivia get to the WC, there's no surprise at all if they arrive last. They're even expected to.



seriously, if the altitude was really EVERYTHING, we "should" have a perfect record at home against brazil/argentina, shouldnt we? again, im not saying were the best, but we deffinetely are where WE deserve to be.

The altitude is not EVERYTHING, but it's the most part of it. Ecuador has a "good" team. But it's by far not as good as many other teams that won't be in the WC, like Uruguay, Colombia, Peru and Chile.

Ecuador have a record at home (when playing in Quito) against Brazil/Argentina that even teams like Germany and Italy don't have. It's more than perfect. However they have a mediocre record at "normal altitude" that is worse than any other. Unfortunately there will be no football pitch over the Zugspitze (the highest mountain in Germany, on the Alps) to make Ecuador play their opponents up there.



I know were considered a "new" team, but as far as progress goes, i think that any neutral S. american fan must say that colombia/chile/peru all need to restructure and rebuild. fortunately for Ecuador, weve been doing that, and are now reaping the benefits.

I agree with you that Ecuador improved from the past. However, they aren't still by far at the level of these other you mentioned. They really improved a bit on quality, but still they have mediocre results when playing outside Quito. Let's say they learned how to take a benefit out of it. And this time it was even much more important than for 2002.
Colombia, Chile, Peru and Uruguay don't have the teams they had at the past. But I'm sure that considering exclusively the quality of the teams, any one of these deserved more to be in the WC than Ecuador.

I'm sorry I'm being hard with my affirmations, and I tell you that I'll be rooting for Ecuador to win group A and go very far in the tournament. But I would be rooting for any of the other 4 too, and I'm absolutely sure that if any of these 4 were in this group instead of Ecuador, polish fans would be much more worried now.

Just be happy that Ecuador will participate again in the WC, and be proud to say that at high altitudes your team is almost unbeatable. It's also a reason for pride.

[juanca]

good deal ronni, hey, the world cup is like THE most exciting event, i cant wait till june!

btw, what country are you from? (support)

[Ronni]

good deal ronni, hey, the world cup is like THE most exciting event, i cant wait till june!

btw, what country are you from? (support)
yes, it's hard to wait till then. That's why we're all in such a forum.

The country I support on first place never lost the WC place for Bolivia or Ecuador, so I'd consider myself unbiased when commenting on them.
Actually the country I support was present in all 17 WCs so far.

[stra]

germany is good costa rica is also good i would go for ecuador and poland
i think ecuador dd we thinking they were in the same group as brazil and argentina
and poland also did wel they were in the same group as england
anways all fo ya visit www.goblackstars.com to support a team to the worldcup

[juanca]

im gonna get some info from another site on Ecuador, and post it here............

[juanca]

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253777

Good thread, with info on Ecuador. some in spanish, but mainly english.

[vojvoda]

1. Germany
2. Poland
3. Ecquador
4. Costa Rica

[tdr]

Poland & Germany

[MattJek]

IF YOU ARE POLISH OR GERMAN, PLEASE HELP.....


I am Ecuadorian and am trying to gather info on poland and germany. i know germany has alot of good players, but i dont know much about poland or there style of play. how does germany play too? please help guys....
Poland has pretty decent experienced player, some playing in the Bundesliga and some playing on Poland top club. Their keeper is from Liverpool. IMHO they are a big improvement over the 2002 team.

[MattJek]

Poland never gets any respect by the international community. They have a strong team with a dangerous attack thats been known to score goals one after another in short periods of time. I'll admit their defence could use some work. I think a tie vs Germany would be a success but a win isnt totally out of the question. Suggesting that they will loose to Costa Rica or Ecuador is ludicris, a lot ot either of those teams would be a total dissapointment.

[Ronni]

Poland never gets any respect by the international community. They have a strong team with a dangerous attack thats been known to score goals one after another in short periods of time. I'll admit their defence could use some work. I think a tie vs Germany would be a success but a win isnt totally out of the question. Suggesting that they will loose to Costa Rica or Ecuador is ludicris, a lot ot either of those teams would be a total dissapointment.
How do you want Poland to be respected? They were one of the best teams in the world from the 70's to begin 80's, but in the last 20 years they have always been underdogs.

WC 1986 - qualified without impressing much, and in the tournament tied 0-0 Morocco, defeated Portugal 1-0, lost to England and Brazil 0-3. I.e. 1 goal scored, 6 conceeded, being 3rd in their group.
EC 1988 - not qualified. Were 4th in a group of 5, only better than Cyprus.
WC 1990 - not qualified. Were 3rd in a group of 4, and could defeat only Albania.
EC 1992 - not qualified. Were 3rd in a group of 4. Could defeat only Turkey (at that time still a 1-14 goals underdog)
WC 1994 - not qualified. Were 4th in a group of 6. Defeated 1-0 and 3-0 San Marino, and at home 1-0 Turkey.
EC 1996 - not qualified. Were 4th in a group of 6. Defeated only Israel, Azerbaijan and Slovakia, all at home.
WC 1998 - not qualified. Were 3rd in a group of 5. Only 3 victories: 2-1 and 3-0 Moldova, and at home 4-1 Georgia
EC 2000 - not qualified. Were 3rd in a group of 5. But actually good results. Perhaps the start of a new phase.
WC 2002 - compensated the bad luck in the draw on the previous editions and got a group with Ukraine, Belarus, Norway, Wales and Armenia. Qualified. Defeated 0-2 by S.Korea and 0-4 by Portugal. Still won 3-1 against the US, but were the last (4th) in their group.

This means they haven't been able to get one of the 2 first spots of a 4-team group in a major tournament in the last 20 years.
Actually Costa Rica did it in 1990, and were eliminated by Turkey only on the goal difference in 2002.

So there is one reason why Poland is considered "favourites" for getting one of the 2 spots now: because they were drawn in an easy group.
They have a good team, and I imagine they will be able to take back our "respect", because actually the underdogs reputation they built in the last tournaments is legitimate. Everybody notices that the bad phase seems to be over, but only time will give us some confidence.

[penalty_20]

Germany and Poland.

[surfcostarica]

Ronni good point on your message!

[penalty_20]

Good points on all his messages. Ronni is a class poster.

[surfcostarica]

Ronni good point Ronni.

[Dutchfan]

I'll try to keep this brief. Germany's no damn good, but neither are any of its opponents in Group A. My hope is that the hosts will be eliminated in Round Two, 'cause it SURE doesn't look like they will be eliminated in Round One!! (I've heard at least one source say to look out for Ecuador. I'm not so sure. I was not the LEAST bit impressed with them in 2002. Remember that when they play at home, they have a HUGE altitude advantage that they did not have in South Korea/Japan, and that they will not have in Germany. They may advance because the rest of Group A is nothing special, but they won't if they play like they did four years ago!!)

[stuglue]

If Germany do not progress from this group Klinsmann best stay in the US.I only see Costa Rica and Poland as challenging for 2nd spot,the Germans should easily take top.

[Dutchfan]

If Germany do not progress from this group Klinsmann best stay in the US.I only see Costa Rica and Poland as challenging for 2nd spot,the Germans should easily take top.I'd pick Poland for second, but from what I understand they're really nothing special so on their day perhaps Costa Rica can beat them. And I'm still not sure about Ecuador. I'll stick with Germany and Poland, realizing that really it could be Germany and any of the other three.

[juanca]

i think Ecuador has a talented young group of players, and on there day, can make it to the 2nd round, but then it all stops there obviously.

im just hoping we play to our best ability and show what we can do, because we are "Becoming" one of the better teams in S. america.

Ecuador have solid players, and a very strong core. im not saying were gonna be the surprise of germany, but we mite turn heads in the 1st round.

[penalty_20]

Germany easily have first but 2nd will be a tough battle

[soccerates]

How do you want Poland to be respected? They were one of the best teams in the world from the 70's to begin 80's, but in the last 20 years they have always been underdogs.

The results of these two teams in the past months:

Germany:

June 21
2005 Germany 2 -2 Argentina

June 25
2005 Germany 2 - 3 Brazil

June 29
2005 Germany 4 - 3 Mexico

August 17
2005 Netherlands 2 -2 Germany

September 03
2005 Slovakia 2 - 0 Germany

September 07
2005 Germany 4 - 2 South Africa

October 08
2005 Turkey 2 - 1 Germany

October 12
2005 Germany 1 - 0 China

November 12
2005 France 0 - 0 Germany

3 wins (Mexico, South Africa, China) - Outside of Mexico, nothing to brag about
3 draw (Argentina, Holland, France) - All fine teams, France sliding a bit though
3 losses (Brazil, Slovakia, Turkey) - Brazil is expected, the other two are toss ups.

Poland

June 04
2005 Azerbaijan 0 - 3 Poland

August 15
2005 Poland 3 - 2 S&M

August 17
2005 Poland 3 - 2 Israel

September 03
2005 Poland 3 - 2 Austria

September 07
2005 Poland 1 - 0 Wales

October 07
2005 Poland 3 - 2 Iceland

October 12
2005 England 2 - 1 Poland

November 13
2005 Poland 3 - 0 Ecuador

November 16
2005 Poland 3 -1 Estonia

8 wins (Ecuador, Iceland, Wales, Austria, S&M, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Israel) Outside of S&M not the highest quality teams, but perhaps no better or worse than South African, and certainly not worse than China)

1 loss (England) - A team that both Poland and Germany may be facing in the 2nd round

So all things considered, this game between Germany and Poland will boil down to a historical rivalry, past experience, and possibly home field advantage because I can't honestly say that I think Germany is head and shoulders better than Poland, even if they have two Poles (of heritage) on their team.

Not to undermine the other two, but thought it would be interesting since it's these two who are being talked about coming out of this group.

[Dutchfan]

The results of these two teams in the past months:

Germany:

June 21
2005 Germany 2 -2 Argentina

June 25
2005 Germany 2 - 3 Brazil

June 29
2005 Germany 4 - 3 Mexico

August 17
2005 Netherlands 2 -2 Germany

September 03
2005 Slovakia 2 - 0 Germany

September 07
2005 Germany 4 - 2 South Africa

October 08
2005 Turkey 2 - 1 Germany

October 12
2005 Germany 1 - 0 China

November 12
2005 France 0 - 0 Germany

3 wins (Mexico, South Africa, China) - Outside of Mexico, nothing to brag about
3 draw (Argentina, Holland, France) - All fine teams, France sliding a bit though
3 losses (Brazil, Slovakia, Turkey) - Brazil is expected, the other two are toss ups.

Poland

June 04
2005 Azerbaijan 0 - 3 Poland

August 15
2005 Poland 3 - 2 S&M

August 17
2005 Poland 3 - 2 Israel

September 03
2005 Poland 3 - 2 Austria

September 07
2005 Poland 1 - 0 Wales

October 07
2005 Poland 3 - 2 Iceland

October 12
2005 England 2 - 1 Poland

November 13
2005 Poland 3 - 0 Ecuador

November 16
2005 Poland 3 -1 Estonia

8 wins (Ecuador, Iceland, Wales, Austria, S&M, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Israel) Outside of S&M not the highest quality teams, but perhaps no better or worse than South African, and certainly not worse than China)

1 loss (England) - A team that both Poland and Germany may be facing in the 2nd round

So all things considered, this game between Germany and Poland will boil down to a historical rivalry, past experience, and possibly home field advantage because I can't honestly say that I think Germany is head and shoulders better than Poland, even if they have two Poles (of heritage) on their team.

Not to undermine the other two, but thought it would be interesting since it's these two who are being talked about coming out of this group.
Good post, O Wise One!!! :thumbsup:

[Ronni]

Good post, O Wise One!!! :thumbsup:
Indeed Germany couldn't beat any of the top teams in the last 5 years, and there were lots of matches for that.
However we shouldn't forget one thing: some years from now they were being defeated and even overplayed by all of them. Now they aren't defeating anyone valuable yet, but they're deservely drawing them (like against France and Argentina), or at least not being overplayed (like against Brazil). This already shows that if they became real underdogs in the last years (no need to say how they get to the final 2002), in the last times they're apparently back. They still don't have players at the level of the other top teams, but they're right behind, and moreover they are the hosts.
No way to compare them to Poland. Poland will be one more of these teams that eventually make a good first phase, but finish by being defeated by a top team without deserving so many comments.

[CDN]

I love this group and even more I love the idea of winning this group by Germans. Why? Just because I love upsets and the Germans are going to be upset, should I say UPSET(?), by Poland. Speaking of what, they are going to be the biggest underdogs of this World Cup (1974, 1982).

[juanca]

One of Ecuador's real test is coming up.....

march 1st, we play Holland in Amsterdam, and yes, we are bringing our A team. that game, along with the final 1 or 2 friendlies should mainly be our main XI....

[S4cePL]

Wow Holland! That should be a really good test/practice for you guys. IMO it will allow you to see how you would fare against a sort of similar team like Germany. BTW, Juanca are you familiar with the Colombian national team? The reason I ask is becasue we have a late May friendly against this S. American side and I'm just curious if they perhaps plays a similar style of soccer to Ecuador.

[Sicilian]

I hope Ecuador upsets this group, for no good reason outside of the fact i like upsets, dont like poland, am friends with some ecuadorians and am completely unimpressed with costa rica. But to be honest i have never seen ecuador play. Juanca any insights into your squads playing style?

[juanca]

Just as a side note- both Holland and Ecuador are bringing there full teams. cocu, van bommel, van de saar, gio and van nistelrooy will play, while the main XI for Ecuador will be playing also, i expect a great game.

Sicilian- Ecuadors playing style? we play a very combined, sound 4-4-2
its been called the "old brazilian style of play" by most S. Americans, lol
our team plays just that, as a team. i would say our strong point is our midfield and forwards. our defense is sound, but we arent the tallest/biggest players around, therefore, most bigger euro teams usually have an advantage in the aerial game.

S4CEPL- similarities to colombia? im going to try and answer this as fairly as possible.
i think colombia currently has better individual talent than we do, several players are regulars for lyon and inter and play in the mexican league. IMO, the problem with colombia is that they dont play as a team, they lack idea in the midfield. also, IMO, they are far more "riske", as in, they take more chances leaving themselves exposed in the back. Ecuador has 2 very good holding midfielders and pretty much everyone comes back and recovers balls.

[Sicilian]

sounds like you guys got a shot in this group then, best of luck

[soccerates]

Originally Posted by soccerates
The results of these two teams in the past months:

Germany:

June 21
2005 Germany 2 -2 Argentina

June 25
2005 Germany 2 - 3 Brazil

June 29
2005 Germany 4 - 3 Mexico

August 17
2005 Netherlands 2 -2 Germany

September 03
2005 Slovakia 2 - 0 Germany

September 07
2005 Germany 4 - 2 South Africa

October 08
2005 Turkey 2 - 1 Germany

October 12
2005 Germany 1 - 0 China

November 12
2005 France 0 - 0 Germany

3 wins (Mexico, South Africa, China) - Outside of Mexico, nothing to brag about
3 draw (Argentina, Holland, France) - All fine teams, France sliding a bit though
3 losses (Brazil, Slovakia, Turkey) - Brazil is expected, the other two are toss ups.

Poland

June 04
2005 Azerbaijan 0 - 3 Poland

August 15
2005 Poland 3 - 2 S&M

August 17
2005 Poland 3 - 2 Israel

September 03
2005 Poland 3 - 2 Austria

September 07
2005 Poland 1 - 0 Wales

October 07
2005 Poland 3 - 2 Iceland

October 12
2005 England 2 - 1 Poland

November 13
2005 Poland 3 - 0 Ecuador

November 16
2005 Poland 3 -1 Estonia

8 wins (Ecuador, Iceland, Wales, Austria, S&M, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Israel) Outside of S&M not the highest quality teams, but perhaps no better or worse than South African, and certainly not worse than China)

1 loss (England) - A team that both Poland and Germany may be facing in the 2nd round

So all things considered, this game between Germany and Poland will boil down to a historical rivalry, past experience, and possibly home field advantage because I can't honestly say that I think Germany is head and shoulders better than Poland, even if they have two Poles (of heritage) on their team.

Not to undermine the other two, but thought it would be interesting since it's these two who are being talked about coming out of this group.


Good post, O Wise One!!! :thumbsup:

On another point, whatever happened to Nachi88? He seems to have disappeared since you openly questioned him on the association the word Nachi has to Nazi war crimes during WWII and the odd coincidence that he has 88 in his monicker which is also representative of HH or Heil Hitler, being used heavily in football matches in Easter Germany to represent an anti-black sentiment. I wonder why he won't answer any of your questions?

[soccerates]

The little weasel has abused his right as a moderator and just pm'd me with a warning. I suppose all the racial names he used to address me in the past is ok for a moderator, but having curiosity as a regular member is frowned upon. And I am not making any allegations when I have evidence for my query such as this:


http://www.fckfans.info/presse/01a9d793ed0f1574b.html

"Soccer stadiums: Nazi meeting point
That sensitivity is lacking in Germany, said Dombowski, where many soccer teams have active neo-Nazi fan blocs who use game time to build contacts and recruit new members. Those same fans shower foreign players with chanted racist slurs and songs, and display neo-Nazi symbols on banners and posters" - dated June 2003

“In eastern Germany the Nazi element is more open,” Dombowski said in an interview with DW-WORLD. “In the west, it has gotten more subtle, more hidden. They use codes and new symbols instead of the swastika.”

"Replacing the jungle calls that once greeted players from the African continent are numbers like “88.” The number 8 being the numerical equivalent of the letter ”H," and "88" being skinhead code for "Heil Hitler."

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/maritime-1b.html
“The Nachi sailed out into Manila Bay where she was deliberately torpedoed by a... On board the three ships were around 7000 prisoners from the Nazi warcamps...”

“if a nationalist socialist is a nazi than is a nationalist communist a nachi?”
http://williamgibsonboard.com/groupe...6/m/8131047951

There are numerous references to a new computer virus called the Nachi, and how it is associated with Nazi political ideals:
Nachi Worm Offers Political Message
http://addict3d.org/index.php?page=v...e=news&ID=1141

For those of you who have a copy of the book "Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War", look on page 356. This segment relates how a Japanese heavy cruiser ("Nachi") was sunk.
The article is widely available on the internet from racist and neo-Nazi sites.

The looting of Asia:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n22/john04_.html
Marcos recovered at least $14 billion in gold - $6 billion from the sunken Japanese cruiser Nachi (A japanese cruiser allied with the Nazi regime) in Manila Bay.

There are numerous references to a new computer virus called the Nachi, and how it is associated with Nazi political ideals:
Nachi Worm Offers Political Message
http://addict3d.org/index.php?page=v...e=news&ID=1141

“So I installed the latest free version of AVG Anti-Virus which immediately detected a Nachi infection.”
http://www.joeygibson.com/blog/2003/

“AP - A computer virus spewed neo-Nazi-tinged spam in English and German into ...F, Blaster, Nachi”
http://news.com.com/2044-12_3-0.html...irus%20Defense

[stuglue]

In defence to him though,i have always read his posts and they are purely related to football,no personal insults or Nazi sympathies.Their have been far worse people on this board.

[nachi88]

In defence to him though,i have always read his posts and they are purely related to football,no personal insults or Nazi sympathies.Their have been far worse people on this board.

Stuglue, thank you.

These are just some of his conspiracy theories. I have never made a pro-nazi or anti- black etc statement. Answering those stupid allegations of his, is giving him and his theories the weightage that they doesnt deserve.

Its just his personal feelings getting the better of him. He will get a few days off to cool himself.

[Pfeife]

Blabla

What the fvck is wrong with you?
This must be at least the 4th or 5th time that you post EXACTLY the same ridiculous accusations and attempts of defamation.
You sound like a broken record and contribute NOTHING to the topic.

This is a football forum where people just want to discuss football issues in an at least to some extent cultivated atmosphere, which is obviously unkown to you.

I have no idea where sick weirdos like you use to hang out in the internet, but stop wasting our time here.
Noone wants to read your pointless offtopic shit (especially if it's the same garbage for the 5th time), now fvck off.

[Abominus]

His father was missing a few choromosomes which resulted in many physical disorders and shortcomings but the most bizarre of all is his demented mind assuming that Italy lies in Canada, or Canada in Italy. Researches haven't concluded yet which is which, though he's also stated that he believes he originates from another planet. Very plausible.

[soccerates]

What the fvck is wrong with you?.

LOL a Nachi sock puppet reappears to defend himself.

See hypocrites like you (Nachi) feel justified in getting away with warning others who have done their homework, but clearly break the rules yourself:


These are just some of his conspiracy theories

http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showpost.php?p=493299&postcount=124

http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showpost.php?p=476788&postcount=1027

How are those conspiracies Nachi, especially when you once said to me in a pm, which I have saved, that you and I should not bicker about who's better etc, and be allies like "Hitler and Mousolini were". Don't even try to deny it, I have it saved ;)

You also mentioned to Dfan that your monicker had something to do with a music band, then he finds out that there's a neo nazi music band with the same letters and whatnot in them. You aren't born in 88, Nachi is the name of several viruses all with pro-nazi propoganda, and a few nazi warships in WWII carrying prisoners. 88 is infamous for Heil Hitler. I seriously doubt it's all just a coincidence. And everytime someone, Dfan, even Mariel a super mod or otherwise asked you about the origins of your name you run and hide - like a coward.

I think your silence says enough, and that you need your sock puppet Pfiefe to come out of the closet to defend you surely is a sign of guilt.

[Guld]

1: Germany
2: Poland

I think Ecuador has a chance of stealing the second spot, but I doubt it.

I also expect Germany to win the whole thing.

[sportscribe]

1: Germany
2: Poland

I think Ecuador has a chance of stealing the second spot, but I doubt it.

I also expect Germany to win the whole thing.

Agreed.

1: Germany

2: Poland

[fallon144]

I think that Ecuador and Costa Rica will fight for the 3rd place, and with some luck one of both could even surpass Poland. But the 1st place will be taken out from Germany only if a disaster occurs. In normal conditions, a 9-point issue.

Totally disagree with that one, yes unfortunately :D I do see Germany advancing, I highly doubt they'll win all matches.

Don't forget Poland will be very VERY eager to defeat the Germans (i.e. look at the Czechs 04 with a B team..) that always adds something extra

Ecuador and Costa Rica will probably not pose much of a threat but understimating these teams can be lethal


And I do see Poland struggling over either one of these teams due to carelesness

[Abominus]

I can see the Poles beat Germany too. In terms of quality, there's virtually no seperating them two.

[Dutchfan]

I also expect Germany to win the whole thing.Changed your mind on that point, yet? Or rather, did you have your mind changed by the resounding victory of the "models and guys who only care about their hair" over the supposedly disciplined and efficient you-know-whos? If you haven't then I suggest you change it here pretty quick!! Your wallet will thank you come July!!

[vojvoda]

Italy : Germany 4:1! :spy: I don't think that current German team have any chances of winning this world cup! No chance what so ever!:faint2:

[Guld]

You could probably say the same thing about Brazil given their performance today.

I'm not too worried....it IS a bit bothersome mind you....but I still have faith that the Germans will turn it around before June.

[Dutchfan]

You could probably say the same thing about Brazil given their performance today.

I'm not too worried....it IS a bit bothersome mind you....but I still have faith that the Germans will turn it around before June.Yeah, except as I tried to explain to you earlier - Brasil vs. Russia? Just another match. Italy vs. Germany? MOST DEFINITELY not "just another match"!! From all reports the Germans VERY BADLY wanted to win against Italy on Wednesday. As you saw, not only did they not win, they got CLOBBERED!!! Without a great deal of help from the "soccer gods" and from FIFA officials both on AND off the field, I don't see the hosts advancing past the quarterfinal round this summer! And maybe not even THAT far!!

[Abominus]

You could probably say the same thing about Brazil given their performance today.

I'm not too worried....it IS a bit bothersome mind you....but I still have faith that the Germans will turn it around before June.

Keep running into brick walls. This isn't the World Championships curling that you're dealing with, I hope u realize that.

[soccerates]

Changed your mind on that point, yet? Or rather, did you have your mind changed by the resounding victory of the "models and guys who only care about their hair"

Speaking of long hair and haircuts, does Guld have the same opinion of Frings too?

[soccerates]

Originally Posted by Guld
You could probably say the same thing about Brazil given their performance today.


Yeah, except as I tried to explain to you earlier - Brasil vs. Russia? Just another match. Italy vs. Germany? MOST DEFINITELY not "just another match"!! From all reports the Germans VERY BADLY wanted to win against Italy on Wednesday. As you saw, not only did they not win, they got CLOBBERED!!! Without a great deal of help from the "soccer gods" and from FIFA officials both on AND off the field, I don't see the hosts advancing past the quarterfinal round this summer! And maybe not even THAT far!!

Except that you CAN'T really say the same thing about Brazil Guld, because it's not just about one match, it's also a string of disappointing performances by Germany, losses to Slovakia, Turkey, marginally beating China in a game that analysts say they were outplayed as well!!! All in recent months. Can you say the same about Brazil in that regard? No you cannot. And Brazil has genuine talent, and depth. They can play without Ronaldinho (arguably the best in the world) and still put forth a formidable team. Can you imagine Germany without Ballack? There is no replacement for him.

[vojvoda]

Brazil : Russia 1:0! Do not be to harsh towards the brazilians the game in russia was played under extreme conditions: -17 temp. This is one of the reasons why brazilians could not do much, due to extremely cold conditions! :boxing: :rofl:

[nachi88]

You also mentioned to Dfan that your monicker had something to do with a music band, then he finds out that there's a neo nazi music band with the same letters and whatnot in them. You aren't born in 88, Nachi is the name of several viruses all with pro-nazi propoganda, and a few nazi warships in WWII carrying prisoners. 88 is infamous for Heil Hitler. I seriously doubt it's all just a coincidence. And everytime someone, Dfan, even Mariel a super mod or otherwise asked you about the origins of your name you run and hide - like a coward.


So Nachi is a nazi Warship???
Atleast be consistent in your accusations. Computer viruses with pro Nazi propoganda? Do viruses distinguish between a 'nazi' computer user and a normal computer user?

Post 122 of this same thread, by Soccerates



The looting of Asia:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n22/john04_.html
Marcos recovered at least $14 billion in gold - $6 billion from the sunken Japanese cruiser Nachi (A japanese cruiser allied with the Nazi regime) in Manila Bay.

So here it is Japanese cruiser.
Make up your mind.




Keep running into brick walls. This isn't the World Championships curling that you're dealing with, I hope u realize that.

We did win the recently concluded winter olympics.

[Sicilian]

Germany better step it up because a 4 - 1 loss to Italy is horrendous for them. Italy vs Germany is ALWAYS an important game to both sides and to lose by so much has got to be unsettling to this years hosts. Germany couldn't put Italy under pressure for any substantial length of time and just reacted to what ITaly did the majority of the game. One more goal for us and we could start singing the damned annoying British song (=

[Dutchfan]

Except that you CAN'T really say the same thing about Brazil Guld, because it's not just about one match, it's also a string of disappointing performances by Germany, losses to Slovakia, Turkey, marginally beating China in a game that analysts say they were outplayed as well!!! All in recent months. Can you say the same about Brazil in that regard? No you cannot. And Brazil has genuine talent, and depth. They can play without Ronaldinho (arguably the best in the world) and still put forth a formidable team. Can you imagine Germany without Ballack? There is no replacement for him.Well put, O Wise One!! Only from people who actually know something about the international game can such wise words spill forth!!

[fallon144]

Equador got defeated by a horrible B dutch side (no RvN vd vaart sneijder de jong bhoula etc)

but i dont take friendlies that seriously anywayz

[Dutchfan]

Equador got defeated by a horrible B dutch side (no RvN vd vaart sneijder de jong bhoula etc)

but i dont take friendlies that seriously anywayz{Ahem} Except when Die Mannschaft is involved in them, right?!?

[soccerates]

So Nachi is a nazi Warship???

Yes the name is linked to Nazi war crimes in WWII, but somehow I get the feeling that you know that already. Remember when you told me that you and I should be allies like Hitler and Mussolini were, instead of bickering who is stronger between Germany and Italy?

Also, did you not once tell me that Nachi was referencing "towards something"? And that the 88 in your name is secret? ;) Then, ironically or not, the number 88 keeps popping up in stadiums in Eastern Germany for the obvious connection to HH or Heil Hitler (http://www.fckfans.info/presse/01a9d793ed0f1574b.html).

Sorry if I find it a bit more than a coincidence that they both feature in your name, given the association you made with Hitler and Mussolini to me.

Laslty to DFan you said that 88 was in reference to a music band, and then he later finds out there is a music band that has pro-nazi lyrics with that same number. There's no "conspiracy theory" here son. This is what is done in the real world of investigations...collection of evidence that mounts on each other pointing in one direction. Before you try to pass this off as a conspiracy theory, get your "theories" straight yourself. Conspiracies are usually secrets...in other words, if I were conspiring against you with a band of others, you wouldn't know about it ;)



Atleast be consistent in your accusations. Computer viruses with pro Nazi propoganda? Do viruses distinguish between a 'nazi' computer user and a normal computer user?

Listen smart-arse, I'm not accusing you of anything, but given your poor choice in character back in November when you called me a mafioso simply because I am Italian, and that I'm a criminal mind - again simply because I am Italian + other insults based on my cultural identity, I began to wonder about your comments made above and did a bit of research. I found enough links and evidence pointing towards the word "NACHI" being associated with "NAZI" ideals. When you were questioned by DFan, and even Mariel back in November you went deathly silent, and that sort of silence is always associated with guilt.

Now that you're trying to change the focus by presenting two differnt (but similarly focused concentrations of that word, linking it to Nazi ideals) I get the feeling that you are still operating from a position of guilt.

Dutchfan kindly asked you to explain your name, but you made some negative connotations on his query, and side stepped the issue with unrelated topics - another sign of guilt.

You'll probably continue to avoid it, but no matter...the evidence is there, and it seems more than coincidental.



So here it is Japanese cruiser.
Make up your mind.

As I said before my mind is not made up about you, but all the evidence is pointing to the same direction. This diversion attempt of yours will fail, just like all others have failed in the past. If you are guilty of this, time will tell, and even if you manage to remain unscathed in an internet forum. If any part of you carries Nazi ideals in your day-to-day living, they won't be able to remain hidden for long. It's your life son. You can live it any which way you want, but it will be your downfall if you hold steadfast to any of that nonsense.

That said, I presented links that merely connected your name Nachi to Nazi ideology, period. You can try and take snippets of those links out of context, but then that wouldn't be anything new now would it? ;)

You tried doing the same thing in the Azzurri vs Mannshaft debate each time I presented the whole picture...shamelessly taking snippets out of context to divert away from the big picture.

The big picture here is that your name is associated with what I said it's associated with. You can't "warn" me for that, and abuse the warning system that SFN has in place otherwise you will be abusing freedoms of speech on this forum, which as I understand it is not allowed.

It's out there in the open. I've made no crime by pasting these links:

http://www.fckfans.info/presse/01a9d793ed0f1574b.html - about the #88
“In eastern Germany (the Nazi element) is more open,” Dombowski said in an interview with DW-WORLD. “In the west, it has gotten more subtle, more hidden. They use codes and new symbols instead of the swastika.”
"Replacing the jungle calls that once greeted players from the African continent are numbers like “88.” The number 8 being the numerical equivalent of the letter ”H," and "88" being skinhead code for "Heil Hitler."

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/maritime-1b.html
http://williamgibsonboard.com/groupe...6/m/8131047951
http://addict3d.org/index.php?page=v...e=news&ID=1141
http://www.joeygibson.com/blog/2003/

So drop the act if you know what's best for you. And congratulations on showing some humbleness in the other thread after yesterdays match!

[soccerates]

Equador got defeated by a horrible B dutch side (no RvN vd vaart sneijder de jong bhoula etc)

but i dont take friendlies that seriously anywayz

From the highlights I saw last night they weren't horrible at all, and it wasn't exclusively a B team...many of those players featured heavily in the Dutch's unbeaten 15 game run in qualifications. Also, the analysts were saying that Holland completely dominated the whole game and could have won by a 4 goal margin if not for incomplete finishing. I'm not going to be swayed by a 1-0 scoreline. Holland, by all acounts, were the superior team.

[fallon144]

well sure, there are always more exciting friendlies, playing teams such as Germany England France and even Belgium is always nice (Germany especially since its so much fun to see them whining after another crushing defeat mwuaha:P)

Germany are still the biggest rivals but atm I also see the Czechs as a huge rival :)

[fallon144]

From the highlights I saw last night they weren't horrible at all, and it wasn't exclusively a B team...many of those players featured heavily in the Dutch's unbeaten 15 game run in qualifications. Also, the analysts were saying that Holland completely dominated the whole game and could have won by a 4 goal margin if not for incomplete finishing. I'm not going to be swayed by a 1-0 scoreline. Holland, by all acounts, were the superior team.

yeah you've seen the highlights, i've seen the whole game...

Meerdink Jaliens and Boateng(wtf?) they completely screwed up. Even with those the dutch side dominated so that sais more about equador then holland imo

the second half, when maduro and hofs (debut) came in, thats when things got more entertaining

[soccerates]

yeah you've seen the highlights, i've seen the whole game...

Fair enough. I'm also repeating what the analysts of FSW were saying in that Holland was the better team.



Meerdink Jaliens and Boateng(wtf?) they completely screwed up. Even with those the dutch side dominated so that sais more about equador then holland imo

That's what the analysts said too, that Holland should have had about 3-4 goals.



the second half, when maduro and hofs (debut) came in, thats when things got more entertaining

[Dutchfan]

yeah you've seen the highlights, i've seen the whole game...

Meerdink Jaliens and Boateng(wtf?) they completely screwed up. Even with those the dutch side dominated so that sais more about equador then holland imo

the second half, when maduro and hofs (debut) came in, thats when things got more entertainingLucky for Germany that all the teams in their first round group appear to be crap, as well, 'cause otherwise Die BrechenKnöchlen might have a very good chance of being the first-ever WC hosts to NOT advance to the second round!! Yikes!

[Sicilian]

Lucky for Germany that all the teams in their first round group appear to be crap, as well, 'cause otherwise Die BrechenKnöchlen might have a very good chance of being the first-ever WC hosts to NOT advance to the second round!! Yikes!

LOL, Dutchfan pretty soon your gonna be running out of nicknames for your favorite team. Always amusing though so don't let me stop you :ronaldo:

[soccerates]

Lucky for Germany that all the teams in their first round group appear to be crap, as well, 'cause otherwise Die BrechenKnöchlen might have a very good chance of being the first-ever WC hosts to NOT advance to the second round!! Yikes!

Hey does that mean something like "ankle breakers" in German or something?


LOL you're a riot. :lol:

[fallon144]

Lucky for Germany that all the teams in their first round group appear to be crap, as well, 'cause otherwise Die BrechenKnöchlen might have a very good chance of being the first-ever WC hosts to NOT advance to the second round!! Yikes!

Hm I sense a hidden Passion for Germany in you :eyebrows:

[Abominus]

He's just being realistic. Just like in admitting the Dutch won't win the Cup, again.

[Sicilian]

He's just being realistic. Just like in admitting the Dutch won't win the Cup, again.

We all know what he meant, and found it amusing. Its ok to laugh, try it for once.

[Dutchfan]

Hm I sense a hidden Passion for Germany in you :eyebrows:Yup!! Except that I'm not doing a particularly good job of hiding it now, am I? :heh::heh::heh:

[Dutchfan]

He's just being realistic. Just like in admitting the Dutch won't win the Cup, again.Doesn't matter. I am indeed a fan of the Dutch team, but if they don't win it, my life won't take a downward turn because of it. All I ask is that they make a good showing of themselves. Only one team can win the ultimate prize, after all.

[fallon144]

He's just being realistic. Just like in admitting the Dutch won't win the Cup, again.

insteresting since it was YOU who said that you could see Holland going all the way, defeating brazil in the finals or do you deny that you wrote that?

[stuglue]

Hm I sense a hidden Passion for Germany in you
You sound like Yoda

[soccerates]

insteresting since it was YOU who said that you could see Holland going all the way, defeating brazil in the finals or do you deny that you wrote that?

Abominus doesn't even remember half his comments. I suspect it's because in July, after the champion is known, he'll come back telling us then that he knew it all along and was right the whole time :lol:

[Sicilian]

Abominus doesn't even remember half his comments. I suspect it's because in July, after the champion is known, he'll come back telling us then that he knew it all along and was right the whole time :lol:

lol no doubt. Abominus's changes his views and opinions with every post for the sole effort to disagree with anything and everything. The only thing he has shown a consistency for is racist comments and cowardice.

[Abominus]

Abominus doesn't even remember half his comments. I suspect it's because in July, after the champion is known, he'll come back telling us then that he knew it all along and was right the whole time :lol:

You've itirated this so much that it's worn out. And it has become pathetic. Because you're convinced I'll be banned by then anyway, isn't that right?
Watch out, you're about to run into another brick wall.

[soccerates]

You've itirated this so much that it's worn out.

What is "itirated"? You're trying to sound profound by using words that you don't know the meaning of, or can't conjugate the proper use of. If you're going to attempt to sound smart, at least try to get the proper context or word.

Give it a rest, lil Kiwi friend of ours :D

I know you love my attention, soak it up while it lasts :D

[Carlos Dragon]

Hi all,

I think If I like look who's winner for Group A is

1. Ecuador... goes vs England from Group B
2. Costa Rica... goes vs Paraguay from Group B
3. Germany sorry Bye
4. Poland sorry Bye

hehehe....But Hope
1. Germany (just Host!!)
2. Ecuador
3. Poland
4. Costa Rica
Just maybe...!!

[fallon144]

You've itirated this so much that it's worn out. And it has become pathetic. Because you're convinced I'll be banned by then anyway, isn't that right?
Watch out, you're about to run into another brick wall.

I knew you wouldnt have an answer for that one

[Sirhail]

lol no doubt. Abominus's changes his views and opinions with every post for the sole effort to disagree with anything and everything. The only thing he has shown a consistency for is racist comments and cowardice.


lol

hes already posted a few quotes just in case.......................

http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showthread.php?p=566766#post566766

even england!!!!!!

http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showthread.php?p=566412#post566412

lol u sly shit!

[Abominus]

Instead of doing something constructive in your life for once, you go and waste hours of the play time that you get at school digging up old posts by me.
You've merely showed that I think Italy'll beat the US and that England'll easily win their group. And I've never said otherwise. Nor did I suggest then, nor do I now, that either of the two teams will win the WC. Coz that's the idea you were trying to portray, wasn't it? don't lie, you see through lies don't work with your mummy, and they don't work here.

[Sirhail]

Instead of doing something constructive in your life for once, you go and waste hours of the play time that you get at school digging up old posts by me.
You've merely showed that I think Italy'll beat the US and that England'll easily win their group. And I've never said otherwise. Nor did I suggest then, nor do I now, that either of the two teams will win the WC. Coz that's the idea you were trying to portray, wasn't it? don't lie, you see through lies don't work with your mummy, and they don't work here.

waste hours hey????

how come u can reply to every thread in sfn???????

u want to do something constructive......stop spending hours taking the piss outta other countries and not admitting where you are from.

[Sicilian]

Hi all,

I think If I like look who's winner for Group A is

1. Ecuador... goes vs England from Group B
2. Costa Rica... goes vs Paraguay from Group B
3. Germany sorry Bye
4. Poland sorry Bye

hehehe....But Hope
1. Germany (just Host!!)
2. Ecuador
3. Poland
4. Costa Rica
Just maybe...!!

Carlos, i like Ecuador but your a fool if you think them and Costa Rica are going to take first place. As a warning, you are gonna take a shitstorm from Dutch fan for you German support :lol:

[Abominus]

Can't people be a little biased now and then. If the States weren't in Italy's group, I'm sure you'd be tipping them to take it out too.

[Guld]

Can't people be a little biased now and then. If the States weren't in Italy's group, I'm sure you'd be tipping them to take it out too.
I actually have a weird feeling that the States might make it out of the group and Italy won't.

It wouldn't make any sense mind you....just a weird feeling I have.

[Sicilian]

Can't people be a little biased now and then. If the States weren't in Italy's group, I'm sure you'd be tipping them to take it out too.

From a guy who constantly says i base my views on "flodder", you have don't have an awful lot to back your shit up. I'm sure you know best though, cuz banging sheep and playing with kiddie toys makes you a genius and a mind reader both :lol:

[Sicilian]

I actually have a weird feeling that the States might make it out of the group and Italy won't.

It wouldn't make any sense mind you....just a weird feeling I have.

Don't take offense if i don't put too much stock behind your "feelings". I seem to remember you saying you thought Germany would beat Italy before that friendly a little while ago. I hope you are right about USA getting through though. Maybe they will slip by Czech with an upset? I don't see it happening but i do hope for it.

[Guld]

Don't take offense if i don't put too much stock behind your "feelings". I seem to remember you saying you thought Germany would beat Italy before that friendly a little while ago. I hope you are right about USA getting through though. Maybe they will slip by Czech with an upset? I don't see it happening but i do hope for it.
Actually, I made a crucial mistake in my prediction for the Italy vs. Germany game. I didn't see where the game was being played. If I had known it was going to be in Italy I would have likely given the edge to them. Friendlies go to the host nation a LOT of the time.

Anyways, I base most of my predictions off of statistics and history. Hell I should have bet on Italy given Germanys track record against Euro teams anyways. Although I still believe that if Germany DID encounter any other Euro teams during last world cup that record would not be as skewed as it is currently.

[Sirhail]

From a guy who constantly says i base my views on "flodder", you have don't have an awful lot to back your shit up. I'm sure you know best though, cuz banging sheep and playing with kiddie toys makes you a genius and a mind reader both :lol:


lol:lol:

[Dutchfan]

I actually have a weird feeling that the States might make it out of the group and Italy won't.

It wouldn't make any sense mind you....just a weird feeling I have.Is the source of this "weird feeling" the same one that tells you that the hosts are going to win the World Cup this summer? If so, I wouldn't listen to it!!!

[Guld]

Is the source of this "weird feeling" the same one that tells you that the hosts are going to win the World Cup this summer? If so, I wouldn't listen to it!!!
Only time will tell, and yeah, maybe I WILL be wrong. But if the hosts DO win it will you do me a favour and empty the contents of your skull all over the wall??

I'm only joking.....I know there are no contents.

[Dutchfan]

Only time will tell, and yeah, maybe I WILL be wrong. But if the hosts DO win it will you do me a favour and empty the contents of your skull all over the wall??

I'm only joking.....I know there are no contents.NO, YOU WILL BE WRONG, MANNSCHAFT LICKER!!! NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT!! So tell us all, just what does it taste like after you've licked a Mannschaft? On second thought, keep that to yourself, I'd rather not know.

[Guld]

blah blah blah I'mINTERNETtough blah blah blah

:rolleyes:

[Dutchfan]

:rolleyes:You know, at first I thought you were all right, but now I see that that is not the case, licker of Manshafts. You say you like ice hockey, and have played it? I'd say you've taken about 5000 too many hits to the head while playing it, then. Pity for you. When you lose your dwelling in June, don't come cryin' to me!

[Arnie26]

Let's shift the discussion to its proper course. I think these 3 group games are kind of lifelines fro Germany. They can hone their game in these 3 games & if they can come up with big victories, it'll give them boost & momentum & from then on, they'll stand a chance.

[Dutchfan]

Let's shift the discussion to its proper course. I think these 3 group games are kind of lifelines fro Germany. They can hone their game in these 3 games & if they can come up with big victories, it'll give them boost & momentum & from then on, they'll stand a chance.Stand a chance of what? Getting to the quarterfinal round? Yeah, I'd say that's POSSIBLE given that no team in the first round should trouble them TOO much, sorry as they are. Beyond that they're going to need LOTS of help to get any further!!

[Guld]

You know, at first I thought you were all right, but now I see that that is not the case, licker of Manshafts. You say you like ice hockey, and have played it? I'd say you've taken about 5000 too many hits to the head while playing it, then. Pity for you. When you lose your dwelling in June, don't come cryin' to me!
I just find INTERNET arguments to be pointless and stupid, and I don't see the point in trolling and flaming for NO reason. In fact, aside from thinking that the Germans will do well in this world cup, WHAT HAVE I DONE TO MAKE YOU SO PISSED?!?!

You seem to think that I'm "OUT TO GET YOU" or something, when frankly I couldn't care less.

I'm just here to post my views/predictions on the World Cup and get feedback and hear OTHERS ideas as to what they think will happen. I enjoy a good CONVERSATION, but having to listen to the same "MANNSHAFT LICKER!1!!!" post OVER AND OVER AND OVER again is pointless and stupid.

Anyways, if you disagree with me, that's cool, I would hate it if EVERYONE agreed with me. And I'm willing to wipe any "slate" that we may have clean, besides, it's hard for me to hold a grudge with such a deticated fan.

:handshakesmilieofsomesorts:

[Guld]

Let's shift the discussion to its proper course. I think these 3 group games are kind of lifelines fro Germany. They can hone their game in these 3 games & if they can come up with big victories, it'll give them boost & momentum & from then on, they'll stand a chance.
The group IS very reminiscent of the group they had in Korea.

Only I'm not so sure that Poland will be able to draw with them as Ireland did.

Assuming that Germany gets first in this position....do you think that the #2 spot will have a chance against the #1 spot from Group B??

[Abominus]

Don't underestimate the Poles. They gave England a good run for their money. In fact, I think Poland beat England in one of the qualifiers.
Poland - Germany'll be a close game. I'm just convinced of that.

[Arnie26]

Stand a chance of what? Getting to the quarterfinal round? Yeah, I'd say that's POSSIBLE given that no team in the first round should trouble them TOO much, sorry as they are. Beyond that they're going to need LOTS of help to get any further!!

World Cup is a funny tournament, my friend. Quarter final?? Maybe, further. And I am not gonna argue with you anymore about Germany allegedly getting help from FIFA. It's pointless. Okay, live with the fact that Germany is a footballing elite, a privileged football country that always gets help something which a Holland can never think of.

[Guld]

Don't underestimate the Poles. They gave England a good run for their money. In fact, I think Poland beat England in one of the qualifiers.
Poland - Germany'll be a close game. I'm just convinced of that.
I'm inclined to agree. The Germans are on a 4 WC streak of 2 wins and a draw during the first stage and I happen to think that Poland will be their "draw".

Do you feel confident that the Poles will outperform Ecuador and Costa Rica??

[Arnie26]

Don't underestimate the Poles. They gave England a good run for their money. In fact, I think Poland beat England in one of the qualifiers.
Poland - Germany'll be a close game. I'm just convinced of that.

Yeah, Poland seems to be like a good team. Germany plays them last in the group. It's actually good to see that the degree of difficulty of their opponents increase gradually.

[Guld]

Yeah, Poland seems to be like a good team. Germany plays them last in the group. It's actually good to see that the degree of difficulty of their opponents increase gradually.
Actually Germany plays Poland second and Ecuador last.

[Dutchfan]

World Cup is a funny tournament, my friend. Quarter final?? Maybe, further. And I am not gonna argue with you anymore about Germany allegedly getting help from FIFA. It's pointless. Okay, live with the fact that Germany is a footballing elite, a privileged football country that always gets help something which a Holland can never think of.You don't comprehend very well, do you? Funny, people in the United States feel that people from India are smart and well-educated. You must be one of the exceptions!

[Dutchfan]

Okay, live with the fact that Germany is a footballing eliteThere you go, daydreaming back to 1990, again. I told you not to do that too much - you might end up hurting yourself because of it!

[Guld]

There you go, daydreaming back to 1990, again. I told you not to do that too much - you might end up hurting yourself because of it!
Who was in the finals during the last world cup?? Hmmm....let me think.
I know BRAZIL was one of the teams...but who was the other...hmmm....

[Arnie26]

You don't comprehend very well, do you? Funny, people in the United States feel that people from India are smart and well-educated. You must be one of the exceptions!

Bringing up the nationality is not required, I don't need your certificate to be smart & well-educated. Do a thing, call some of your friend who is actually your well-wisher & make him read the last few posts of you & me. Let's see which of us 2 does he think is the smarter & more sensible person!!

[Guld]

I agree. The nationality of the poster has NOTHING to do with the credibility of their posts. And if it did.....America would be nothing more than cannon fodder.

[Dutchfan]

Who was in the finals during the last world cup?? Hmmm....let me think.
I know BRAZIL was one of the teams...but who was the other...hmmm....Geez, and here I thought you were "cured" of your "Mannschaft licking" even if for just a brief while. Uh huh, Mr. Statistic. And tell me, tell us ALL, when's the last time that that team who's "schaft" you love to lick so much actually BEAT a known quality team? Here it is, Mr. Statistic: not since September of 2000, when it beat England in a World Cup qualifier in the last match ever played in the "old" Wembley Stadium. How many months ago is that, Mr. Statistic? How many years? And can you remind all of us, Mr. Statistic, what it was that England did to your favorite team the NEXT time it played it? In case you can't remember, England BEAT your favorite team, 5 - 1, in Munich!! So what do you have to say, NOW, Mannschaft licker?!?

[Dutchfan]

Bringing up the nationality is not required, I don't need your certificate to be smart & well-educated. Do a thing, call some of your friend who is actually your well-wisher & make him read the last few posts of you & me. Let's see which of us 2 does he think is the smarter & more sensible person!!I've been COMPLETELY "smart" and "sensible." Not to mention "right on target!!" It's just that people like you and "guld" are too obtuse and stubborn to see it!! That's more YOUR problem than it is mine!!

[Guld]

Geez, and here I thought you were "cured" of your "Mannschaft licking" even if for just a brief while. Uh huh, Mr. Statistic. And tell me, tell us ALL, when's the last time that that team who's "schaft" you love to lick so much actually BEAT a known quality team? Here it is, Mr. Statistic: not since September of 2000, when it beat England in a World Cup qualifier in the last match ever played in the "old" Wembley Stadium. How many months ago is that, Mr. Statistic? How many years? And can you remind all of us, Mr. Statistic, what it was that England did to your favorite team the NEXT time it played it? In case you can't remember, England BEAT your favorite team, 5 - 1, in Munich!! So what do you have to say, NOW, Mannschaft licker?!?
I have to say this:

WC2002
Germany: Runners-Up
England: Quarter Finals

Besides, Germany beat Mexico during the Confederate and despite the controversy that surround their Fifa ranking...Mexico IS a good team.

[Dutchfan]

I'm going to bed now. I have better things to do than to try to convince a couple of numbskulls such as yourselves of something that sensible people can see right off. You have fun now, y'hear?

[Dutchfan]

I have to say this:

WC2002
Germany: Runners-Up
England: Quarter Finals

Besides, Germany beat Mexico during the Confederate and despite the controversy that surround their Fifa ranking...Mexico IS a good team.Geez, I was GOING to BED!!! I have news for you "hit-in-the-head-too-often": if your favorite team had played Brasil in the quarterfinals the way England did, then there's NO WAY your favorite team would have been in that Final. Yet another example of your favorite team ending up with an easier path to the Final than anyone else!! Lucky #$#%#@$@#$#!!

[Guld]

Geez, I was GOING to BED!!! I have news for you "hit-in-the-head-too-often": if your favorite team had played Brasil in the quarterfinals the way England did, then there's NO WAY your favorite team would have been in that Final. Yet another example of your favorite team ending up with an easier path to the Final than anyone else!! Lucky #$#%#@$@#$#!!
I agree. But that is also part of my point. The tournament was designed so that there was NO WAY Germany and Brazil could meet before the final. That was who I was gambling on last time to make it to the finals and I took home a handsome sum.

I also predicted that Spain would make it past Ireland and make it further than Italy and I was right about that as well.

I think what you have to realize is that "Being the BETTER team" doesn't mean success.

[Dutchfan]

I agree. But that is also part of my point. The tournament was designed so that there was NO WAY Germany and Brazil could meet before the final. That was who I was gambling on last time to make it to the finals and I took home a handsome sum.

I also predicted that Spain would make it past Ireland and make it further than Italy and I was right about that as well.

I think what you have to realize is that "Being the BETTER team" doesn't mean success.Thank you!! Thank you for your implicit acknowledgement that your favorite team IS NOT one of the better teams around. Thank you very much!! That's ALL I needed you to acknowledge!

[Guld]

Um....glad I could help.

[kaka_rules_99]

What teams will the winner and the runner up of this group will face?

[Guld]

What teams will the winner and the runner up of this group will face?
The winner of group A faces the runner up of group B.
The runner up of group A faces the winner of group A.

I personally see
Germany facing Sweden
Poland facing England

But I have to admit....I do have my skeptisism over Poland.

[TheItalianBull]

this is a interesting group... i think germany should not play a game cuz i think they alreayd made it thrue... but over here just like with argentinas group... istead of 3 potential 1st place teams... you got 3 potential 2nd place teams... IMO Poland should get it... but i unno... its tough to say...

[kaka_rules_99]

Poland should get the second place. But we'll see how it turns out

[FIFAchamp]

i hope i dont get burned for sticking my nose into a group that doesnt really concern me (my business is in group D) but i would like to see ecuador advance over poland... i have ties to ecuador!! so naturaly i would like them to do well... however i know next to nothing about poland... so can anyone enlighten me as to why poland is a favorite over ecuador?

[kaka_rules_99]

Poland had a good record in the qualifications, they only lost twice, to one team: England.

Also, Europeans teams tend to have the advantage whilst playing in Europe, so I guess, they are the favourite side over Ecuador..

[Dutchfan]

Poland had a good record in the qualifications, they only lost twice, to one team: England.

Also, Europeans teams tend to have the advantage whilst playing in Europe, so I guess, they are the favourite side over Ecuador..I thought Ecuador totally sucked in 2002, so for them to advance past the group stage this time will take A LOT better play on their part than what they showed then. On the other hand, no team in Group A is all that great, so I suppose it could happen. Either way, no team from Group A, in my opinion, is worthy of anything beyond a quarterfinal place, and maybe not even that!!

[SiN]

Germany will be on top of this one and i am having second thoughts about the performance of Costa Rica recently as they have slumped in some matches, will they have enough to get through? Does Paulo Wanchop still play for Costa Rica?

[Sirhail]

i fear for poland in this 1. they might fall out to ecuador.

[kaka_rules_99]

They might..
But isn't that what everyone says around here
Just watch the game...

[Sirhail]

oh every1 is saying that??????

lol i though poland and germany were clear favorites!!!

[kaka_rules_99]

Germany are clear favourites.
As for Poland, they'll have to work hard to advance.

[Dutchfan]

Germany are clear favourites.
As for Poland, they'll have to work hard to advance.Why? Ecuador's no damn good! At least, not once they're playing away from the cozy (and high) confines of Quito!! Not that Poland's all that great, but they should be able to beat Ecuador and Costa Rica!!

[kaka_rules_99]

Why? Ecuador's no damn good! At least, not once they're playing away from the cozy (and high) confines of Quito!! Not that Poland's all that great, but they should be able to beat Ecuador and Costa Rica!!

Calm down...

[vMAXv]

Here are some movies about Poland:

About Maciej Zurawski:
http://www.maxior.pl/?p=index&id=12288&20

"Poland road to the World Cup":
http://www.maxior.pl/?p=index&id=12530&20

1st and 2nd place = Germany and Poland
3rd and 4th = Ecuador and Costa Rica

Let's say:
1. Poland
2. Germany
3. Costa Rica
4. Ecuador

That first and second place is the biggest mistery, my country will be very, very, VERY eager to fight hard with the Germany, we want a revange for WC '74. Poland was the one to win that, at the beggining we jumped over Argentina, and also - we won vs the world champion, Brasil in the match for the third place, Germany has taken the trophy away from us then :(

[VOICE OF REASON]

Here are some movies about Poland:

About Maciej Zurawski:
http://www.maxior.pl/?p=index&id=12288&20

"Poland road to the World Cup":
http://www.maxior.pl/?p=index&id=12530&20

1st and 2nd place = Germany and Poland
3rd and 4th = Ecuador and Costa Rica

Let's say:
1. Poland
2. Germany
3. Costa Rica
4. Ecuador

That first and second place is the biggest mistery, my country will be very, very, VERY eager to fight hard with the Germany, we want a revange for WC '74. Poland was the one to win that, at the beggining we jumped over Argentina, and also - we won vs the world champion, Brasil in the match for the third place, Germany has taken the trophy away from us then :(


get real

1.Germany
2.Poland/Ecuador
4.Costa Rica

I have a problem with Germany having 2 Polish players and Ahsamoah (I belive Ghana) in their team......not because they're not German, but because Poland is a good team that could us Podolski and Ghana Ahsamoah....besides Germany can boost other players, maybe maybe not to the level of these players mention.

what doy guys think?

[karmakop]

Id have to say that unlike a lot of you, I know some thing about all these teams. As of late Germany has ben very inconsistent. Which Ballack will show for the WC? Poland beat Ecuador 3-0 in a friendly about a month ago. The only team i see troubling Poland is Costa Rica because they play a similar style as the U.S. So Germany will win the group and Poland will come in second.

[German]

we will make it. don´t worry!

i don´t think that -for example- klose is polish. he comes from schlesien. an old german territory with german rootes. nearly the same with podolski.

the confed-cup showed: germany is strong. especially at home. argentina and brasil were very lucky... and now our young team is even stronger.

maybe we get the 4th star on our shirt... but for our young team the semi-finals would be o.k.

[michelle2005]

Hi guys,

From this group, I am sure that Germany will be on top position. Incase of others, I have no idea.

[almouchie]

on paper germany should win their group comfortably
dont bet against any surprise thou

[Ronni]

we will make it. don´t worry!
I'll be in Germany during the WC and I also hope they are successful, since it keeps the interest of the population on the event at a higher level.
Anyway I still have my doubts ...



i don´t think that -for example- klose is polish. he comes from schlesien. an old german territory with german rootes. nearly the same with podolski.

this won't have any influence on their match against Poland or any other team.
The other day I heard Podolski welcoming the poles coming to the WC (in polish!). But they are professional football players, and their ambition is stronger than any national feeling.



the confed-cup showed: germany is strong. especially at home.

well ... let's make it relative. Germany will be strong enough for beating Ecuador, Costa Rica and perhaps Poland, like they could recently beat at home the US, China and South Africa.
However, things look quite different against "top teams". These were Germany's last home matches against the 2006 favorites:

01/09/01 Germany 1:5 England
17/04/02 Germany 0:1 Argentina
20/11/02 Germany 1:3 Holland
20/08/03 Germany 0:1 Italy
15/11/03 Germany 0:3 France
08/09/04 Germany 1:1 Brazil
09/02/05 Germany 2:2 Argentina
21/06/05 Germany 2:2 Argentina
25/06/05 Germany 2:3 Brazil
they were defeated 6 times out of 9 matches, drawing the other 3. They scored 9 times and conceeded 21 goals.

These aren't records of a "top team" at all. Actually even "second pot teams" like Czech Rep., Portugal and Sweden commonly have better home records.

Let's say they've improved. So they will probably act like a "second pot team". So we could consider Germany as strong as hosts like Spain '82 and Mexico '86. Still stronger than US '94 or Japan/S.Korea '02, but not title favorites like France '98 or Italy '90.

This means that reaching a semi is already excellent. They could do it if they don't have to face stronger teams till there. Like they did it in 2002.



argentina and brasil were very lucky... and now our young team is even stronger.

they weren't lucky. They were two teams of a higher league that were guests on an event organized for testing the WC structures. And this is the way they presented themselves. The German team was on an event as they were being tested themselves. Argentina and Brazil played a "real tournament" only on the final - because there are no friendly matches between these two teams. Anyway both Argentina and Brazil were stronger than Germany. They should have been less selfish and should have let the 2nd-league hosts lift the trophy.

During the WC all teams will play it for real.



maybe we get the 4th star on our shirt...
I don't believe the 4th star will be coming. Actually it would be a shame for the World Cup history to have names like Klose, Huth and Owomoyela besides other world champions like Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, Zidane, Charlton ...
Names like Ronaldinho, Henry, Rooney, Totti or Messi would fit much more.



but for our young team the semi-finals would be o.k.

Yes, a semi would guarantee Germany still playing until the last tournament weekend. This would be good for the atmosphere.
But I have my doubts ... They could be facing Argentina or Holland in the quarters, or even England on the 2nd phase ... this could be fatal!

[xavig]

germany and either ecuador or poland.because ecuador can beat poland

[Ronni]

germany and either ecuador or poland.because ecuador can beat poland

I do hope they do, but I have my doubts. Anyway I'll try to convince FIFA and the WC2006 Organization Comitee to change the scheduled match from Gelsenkirchen to Quito. Or at least to play it on the Zugspitze - this is the highest peak in Germany, close to Munich. In this way Ecuador would have a real chance!

I tell you if I managed to convince anybody. Beckenbauer liked the idea, but Blatter was sort of sceptical ...
Let's wait and see.

[kaka_rules_99]

Weird people :lol:

[manuchampagne]

Hi,
I m working as journalist at RTBF ( Belgium television ) and I m going to the world cup this year. I m looking for good contact in germany, strange ideas, fun stuff, cool supporters … everywhere in germany during the world cup… thats why i need you
Can you help me.
Manu Champagne
manuchampagne@yahoo.fr

[dannyd]

This group is a joke. And so is group B. Germany and Poland without a doubt. I feel sorry for the runner up though, to play england will be tough. I predict Poland vs. England, then England winning. Germany will play sweden, and Germany will win.

[Ronni]

This group is a joke. And so is group B. Germany and Poland without a doubt. I feel sorry for the runner up though, to play england will be tough. I predict Poland vs. England, then England winning. Germany will play sweden, and Germany will win.

This group is indeed a joke, but group B isn't!
England > Germany
Sweden > Poland
Paraguay > Ecuador
only T/T < Costa Rica, but perhaps none of both will play any role.

[dannyd]

I think now that England has an injured team, I guess it evens out the odds now. Trinidad might be able to take them now .... haha

[Ronni]

I think now that England has an injured team, I guess it evens out the odds now.

England should leave at least 5 more players at home to be at the same talent level of Germany.
Of course Germany play at home, and this counts.


Trinidad might be able to take them now .... haha

This match will be the most important one in the whole history of that small country. I wouldn't say everything is possible, but someone like Yorke will run like a 20-year-old boy.

[nachi88]

Enjoy this video guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC39mrwZ15U&search=podolski

Its damn funny, and has a good compilation of Podoslki goals.

[Ronni]

Enjoy this video guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC39mrwZ15U&search=podolski

Its damn funny, and has a good compilation of Podoslki goals.

He's ok. But on a tournament we're supposed to see strikers like Henry, Drogba, Shevchenko, Rooney (who knows ...), I think we have enough more interesting alternatives to look forward to.

[MexicanAmerican]

Enjoy this video guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC39mrwZ15U&search=podolski

Its damn funny, and has a good compilation of Podoslki goals.


That song was ghastly!

[benfica64]

This is a tough call, I will say costa rica and poland to clean house????????

[johncena]

Germany won't display succesful performance like apst few years ago.
Why? Because they play old-fashioned football.

[johncena]

Both England and Germany will choke, period.

I think now that England has an injured team, I guess it evens out the odds now. Trinidad might be able to take them now .... haha

[surfcostarica]

i hope germany,poland and ecuador will collapse jejeje nothing personal

[Ronni]

did you see the pictures of yesterday's match?

Germany won 7-0 against a brazil-looking team. ;)

Are they ready for the cup?

[martin_petrov17]

Germany+poland Going Through

[Jian]

Germany will be seen playing in the final

[ofelia]

franz beckenbauer talks about ITALY.???????????????????????????????:stop:
How dare you?
franz beckenbauer :red-card: should shut up about Italy.
He sated that ITALY should be out.

WE DESERVE TO BE THERE, WE DESERVE TO PLAY, WE DESERVE TO TRY OUR BEST. WE DESERVE RESPECT AS WE HAVE FOR EVERY OTHER CONTENDENT.MAYBE YOU HAVENT. WE ALL KNOW WHY.
I AM WRITING HERE AS THE GERMAN SUPPORTERS HAVE TO SUGGEST THEIR LEADER TO SHUT UP.

SHAME ON YOU. franz beckenbauer , SHAME ON YOU.
SHUT UP. AND WASH YOUR MOUTH BEFORE TALKING ABOUT ITALY.
WE HAD ENOUGH. OUR INTERNAL PROBLEMS DO NOT CONCERN THE TEAM.
SHUT UP . SHUT UP. SHUT UP. SHUT UP. SHUT UP SHUT UP. SHUT UP. SHUT UP. PLAY YOUR CHANCES WITH YOUR TEAM. WISH YOU BESTS.
DON T GET SCARED ABOUT US. GELOUS. THATS IT. GELOUS.
LONG LIVE FOOTBALL.
FORZA ITALIA. WE BELIEVE IN SPORT.

[Koos the Expert]

I can't see why Poland are Germany should make their way into the next round as easily as everyone says. Especially Ecuador will be fierce opposition. And neither Germany nor Poland has a team be lyrical about. If I have to make a prediction, Ecuador will go through as group winners, followed by the Germans.

[juanca]

I can't see why Poland are Germany should make their way into the next round as easily as everyone says. Especially Ecuador will be fierce opposition. And neither Germany nor Poland has a team be lyrical about. If I have to make a prediction, Ecuador will go through as group winners, followed by the Germans.


i completely agree;)

and just for the record, the above poster is european.

[petenice00]

anything is possible but based on how Ecuador fared against Poland in a friendly (1-0 Poland) I don't think they will be taking the group. I think it
will be close between Costa Rica and Poland for second.

[sjmcfarland]

What are the odds. The day I join this forum I find the last two comments stating that Ecuador, my home country, will top off Group A. Personally, I'd be more than happy to see Ecuador come out in second. I hope that Ecuador will be beat Costa Rica, tie to Poland, and then come out second by a goal difference superiority to Poland. However, to be honest, if I were betting large sums of money on these matches I'd have to say that I would probably put down Germany as first and Poland as second. Still, I do think it is possible that Ecuador will beat Poland.

[pissoffcake]

well according to me here it will be poland and germany

[caruiz93]

lol,i was watching fox soccer channel and neicer reasco(a midfielder for ecuador national team) said that the top three candidates to win the world cup were brazil,england and ecuador.........................lol

[surfcostarica]

What are the odds. The day I join this forum I find the last two comments stating that Ecuador, my home country, will top off Group A. Personally, I'd be more than happy to see Ecuador come out in second. I hope that Ecuador will be beat Costa Rica, tie to Poland, and then come out second by a goal difference superiority to Poland. However, to be honest, if I were betting large sums of money on these matches I'd have to say that I would probably put down Germany as first and Poland as second. Still, I do think it is possible that Ecuador will beat Poland.


heyy what makes you think that ecuador will beat Costa Rica, we haven't even played the freaking game, we both have the same level, maybe you can get a big surprisse!!!!1

[bones4012]

franz beckenbauer talks about ITALY.???????????????????????????????:stop:
How dare you?
franz beckenbauer :red-card: should shut up about Italy.
He sated that ITALY should be out.

WE DESERVE TO BE THERE, WE DESERVE TO PLAY, WE DESERVE TO TRY OUR BEST. WE DESERVE RESPECT AS WE HAVE FOR EVERY OTHER CONTENDENT.MAYBE YOU HAVENT. WE ALL KNOW WHY.
I AM WRITING HERE AS THE GERMAN SUPPORTERS HAVE TO SUGGEST THEIR LEADER TO SHUT UP.

SHAME ON YOU. franz beckenbauer , SHAME ON YOU.
SHUT UP. AND WASH YOUR MOUTH BEFORE TALKING ABOUT ITALY.
WE HAD ENOUGH. OUR INTERNAL PROBLEMS DO NOT CONCERN THE TEAM.
SHUT UP . SHUT UP. SHUT UP. SHUT UP. SHUT UP SHUT UP. SHUT UP. SHUT UP. PLAY YOUR CHANCES WITH YOUR TEAM. WISH YOU BESTS.
DON T GET SCARED ABOUT US. GELOUS. THATS IT. GELOUS.
LONG LIVE FOOTBALL.
FORZA ITALIA. WE BELIEVE IN SPORT.
The only thing you believe is in cheating...for once i have to agree with a german

ban the grease balls....