what happened,2-0

[toronto_soccer]

i thought the usa is no good at soccer and mexico is so great. why 2-0 defeat yesterday.

[aguilas]

i thought the usa is no good at soccer and mexico is so great. why 2-0 defeat yesterday.

Our coach is a f@ggot that only calls his damn friends. He refuses to call our best players like Cuauhtemoc Blanco, Guillermo Ochoa, Hector Altamirano, Jesus Arellano, Joaquin Beltran, and Jose el gringo Castro. He instead call all his horrible friends like omar bravo, alberto median, el maza rodriguez, Zinha, and Mario Mendez. I hope that idiot get kicked out.

Oh and Rafa Marquez says he won't play the WC if Lavolpe gets kicked out? Then get the fvck out, Rafa sucks ass. He is one of the dirtiest players I have ever had the misfortune of watching play. I hope he dosen't go to the WC cuz he won't be missed. He deserved at least 3 red cards yesterday but the ref decided to let him stay for some unknown reason

[Rayado_Inglés]

hey so what happens now can you still qualify? and why do they call Jose Castro 'El Gringo'??

and what about guille franco? i thought he got mexican nationality! was he in the squad?
Cuz el gringo has green eyes and when he was younger he had almost blonde hair so he looks like an American.

Guille does have Mexican Nationalty but Lavolpe hasn't called him yet

[Mexico Kid]

I still think that Mexico is better than the US. Its just that we had a horrible squad without Temoc, and a shit load of other people that Lavolpe forgot to call. I cant wait till we meet again in Germany!

[jerkykhanh]

What happened is Mexico is not as good as US. As much as they're trying to deny it, US has dominated Mexico in recent time. Mexico is also a dirty, dirty team. They got all pissed and played dirty after the score was 2-0. They deserved this loss.

[kriot]

I'll tell you what happened.

This US National Team is better than the the Mexico National Team. the US team has had essentially the same look and feel since the Sampson era. These guys know how to play with each other. The bulk of these guys do not play very often, they are always well rested and ready to play. One of the joys of playing in a crummy league and having international players that ride the pine. They have no pressure in games, that is an undeniable fact. Also they;re style of play by now is second nature to those guys. The Contragolpe style is very effective and the US team are excellent at it. Greece won the UEFA cup employing this method. Sure you could say they win games by playing a boring style and by "playing for the tie" but still, they won, we lost. Beasley was damn good tho, DAMN GOOD! But again, the biggest factor i feel is that these guys really really know how to play with each other and they know the contragolpe.

Mexico, i'll say again, these dudes have not stopped playing for at least a year with all the tournaments they've been too, fatigue is a factor. Also, Masa was horrible and responsible for the first goal. The entire Mexican defense played horribly. Once they went down by won goal they lost their heads. This happens everygame and is a reflection on the coach. We spend too much time trying to get foul and penalties called instead of trying to go for the goal. Sinha should be tossed out. Fonseca was a non factor and needs to start producing. Bravo should have been put in at the beginning of the second half. Mexico needs to learn to play with each other, not lose their heads and most importantly, learn how to come back from behind. Hugo should be put in place. I honestly feel he has the sense to put together a winning squad that would tear the US team apart.

Korona

[El Kapitan]

No, no, no, listen, the fact is that the US team was the last place in France 98, ever since they are working out a very good program to develop competitive national teams, and they are commited with their coach Bruce Arena, who's been in that position for almost 8 years. In that period he has managed to make the US team a competitive team, but with out working any miracles, he gave them defensive order and took talented players with European experience like Beasley and Donovan to create some game but always from that defensive order.

In Mexico the rivalry against the US is a new thing, in the past it was an interesting match but that was it, and even to this day it means more for them than for us. But the fact is that ever since the WC in 2002 it has gained in strength and ever since we had played only two official matches one in Mexico and one in the USA, each won their respective home games, what's so great in that?, just this Saturday Paraguay beated Argentina in Paraguay, that makes Paraguay a better team than Argentina? I don't think so, and stories like that are written in every region of the world during the qualifiers.

The truth is that the USA has worked out a good cycle under Arena management, but that won't be enough in the future, they can keep sending players to Europe, and Europe can keep sending them back just like with little Landon, and what about the league?, it still is a desgrace of a league maybe they are the second best league of the region, but they are light years away from the Mexican League, and now the Mexican League is even starting to use the MLS as a second division with Chivas USA for now, and then America USA, and many other mexican teams.

If the US wants to be recognized as the region leader they would have to work out a competitive league that can succesfully play in official competitions in South America, just like the Mexican League and start beating constantly Mexican clubs and at the same time they need to be constant and win every time they face Mexico, in Columbus, NY, and even in the Azteca and stop been afraid of playing in LA, Houston, Dallas, and pretty much every major city in the US.

I don't think that would happen and far from that the next step is taking the game to Alaska

[El Kapitan]

Hey toronto_soccer!:

What happened with the Canadian National Team, they have never been close to be competitive, but at least in the past they were there, losing but there, now what? they get kicked out by Cuba and other pathetic (football speaking) little countries, and now they don't even have the chance to lose matches like the one when Mexico beated them in 93 2-1 to qualify to the WC precisely in the City of Toronto.

[toronto_soccer]

that's the beauty of living in canada my friend. we are the world champions dominating the world in hockey. we play many sports here, not just soccer. it would be great if canada made some progress and became a force in soccer but it's all good. soon we will have an mls team, and did you forget we won the gold cup before?

[El Kapitan]

toronto_soccer;

Although I see why you try to explain me why canada sucks in soccer, you don't have to brief me on how is Canada, or which sports canadians like, I lived and studied in that country, which by the way I enjoyed a lot, but the fact is that this is a football forum, and you leaved a post in the Mexican thread asking about a recent result of the Mexican Football National team against the States Football National team, since I appreciate your concern, then I only returned the favor and asked you; why Canada sucks in soccer recently? Although I do thank you for remember me that Canada won that little tournament called the Gold Cup, a tournament that Mexico wins every time they care about it (not like this year were they send the B team), I will like to point out that my question was to remember you the absence of Canada in the recent final stages of the hexagonal, not to mention the WC (the last time was in 86) and I hoped you could brief us on why that great nation doesn't have a good football team.

Now do you really think that an MLS team would solve all the problems with canadian soccer, maybe it would help a little, but I would like to see a national pro league of their own, and more work with the kids not only to have more players, but also to build a fan base, an MLS team is a start, but they need to go further, the big issue is the lack of interest of the general population in this sport that hopefully in the future will grow.

By the way I don't think that the beauty of living in Canada relies on the fact that you play many sports, it has to do with other factors like the vast natural resources and the low population that benefit from an economy in which there's much richness and not many people to distribute it.

Unlike Mexico a country that plays more sports than just soccer, like baseball, basketball and american football, in all of them Mexico is at least in the top 20 teams of the world, and in american football is the third or fourth best country of the world, and we even play hockey and we suck at it, pretty much for the same reasons canada sucks in soccer. But as I said this is a fooball forum.

[kriot]

Kapitan,

Great analysis.

Korona

[KILLaKrush1913]

i also saw at confederations cup that lavolpe smokes

[KILLaKrush1913]

Our coach is a f@ggot that only calls his damn friends. He refuses to call our best players like Cuauhtemoc Blanco, Guillermo Ochoa, Hector Altamirano, Jesus Arellano, Joaquin Beltran, and Jose el gringo Castro. He instead call all his horrible friends like omar bravo, alberto median, el maza rodriguez, Zinha, and Mario Mendez. I hope that idiot get kicked out.

Oh and Rafa Marquez says he won't play the WC if Lavolpe gets kicked out? Then get the fvck out, Rafa sucks ass. He is one of the dirtiest players I have ever had the misfortune of watching play. I hope he dosen't go to the WC cuz he won't be missed. He deserved at least 3 red cards yesterday but the ref decided to let him stay for some unknown reason
dirty player?

he is in the barcelona first team

[jerkykhanh]

Mexico and its fans must stop being in denial before they can get better to beat US. Stop trying to come up with excuses such as not having the best players in there, bad coach, US defensive style... It's all BS. In the past 3-4 years US has been better than Mexico period. Look at the tangible results. In the games where it counts, i.e. WC and WC qualifiers, US beat Mexico on neutral site and beat Mexico more convincingly at home. If you want to talk compare the talent pool, I am more convinced the US has better talent pool than Mexico. Area can pick players playing from England, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Denmark.. best leagues in the world. Mexico has Borgetti and Marquez.

[aguilas]

am more convinced the US has better talent pool than Mexico. Area can pick players playing from England, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Denmark.. best leagues in the world. Mexico has Borgetti and Marquez.

I'm tired of people saying that players in Europe are better than players that aren't. There are players in Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina that are a lot better than players in Europe.

[jerkykhanh]

It's absurd to think the leagues in Americas are better than the ones in Europe. The European leagues have sucked all the best Brazillian, Argentinian talents for years and if there are any better South/Central american players playing domestically, they would eventually go to Europe to make more money anyway. Obviously there will be cases where some (continent) American players who are just as good not playing in Europe but in general to say the players playing in the the continent American leagues are the best players is insane. However that's not even the point of my previous post. I was saying the US has a deep pool of players playing in many different European leagues, some of them ARE the best leagues in the world. They can bring the different exposure, experience to making of a national team which mexico lacks.

[kriot]

Hmm, well, i agree with some points.

For example, Mexico needs to send more players over seas. The mexican style of play is good for playing other latin american teams but a mexican team would have a difficult time playing the european game. They hustle more and dont spend as much time taking dives.

However tho, Mexico i still feel has a much larger and better pool to work with.

The US defensive style is not an excuse. It works very well for that team. Arena's got these dudes trained right and they execute nicely. What Mexico needs to watch out for is the next US coach. As i'm sure this next coach will impliment a more attacking style. The US is almost at the point where they dont need to sit back defend and wait for their chances.

Mexico needs to continue to advance and LEARN how to play other teams. Mentally they got a ways to go. They seem to breakdown easily when they are down in the match. They argue with eachother on the field the moment they're down 1-0. Honestly, what kind of team does that? I'm starting to change my position on lavolpe and maybe he should stay. He's done some good, however i wish we had someone more like Aguirre in there now to improve the team before handing the reigns over to Hugo, which i think can give the team that mental edge. Handing Giovanni dos Santos and some of the other new guys to Hugo will really serve the national team well for 2010

Also, Mexico lost the game, pure and simple. The US did not create any spectacular plays that would indicate that its some great team.

Again this US team is better than this Mexican team, thats not to say that the US as a whole is better. That will take some time. And who knows if they'll ever surpass Mexico. Mexico is pulling a lot of the same stunts the US does, with the whole, naturalization of foreigners and all.

KC


P.S. Does anyone else think that Maza is like the Mexican Hejduk. Both for some strange reason are on the national teams despite not bieng very good and incredibly unpredictable. Yes, they're both fast but what good does that do if they cant pass the ball? I dunno, maybe there's something i'm not seeing.

[toronto_soccer]

I'm tired of people saying that players in Europe are better than players that aren't. There are players in Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina that are a lot better than players in Europe.

and when they become great players they go to europe.

[soccerates]

and when they become great players they go to europe.

Yep, there's really not much to argue about that...most players that are worth their salt will end up where the money is greater, and usually that means going to Europe!! They have a short time-span (in terms of career) so making the most money that they can in that short-time period is human nature. The best of the South American's are in Europe...let's face it...not all, but the majority.

[lightwave]

I'm tired of people saying that players in Europe are better than players that aren't. There are players in Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina that are a lot better than players in Europe.

True.That's why they buy so many players from South America.See Real Madrid....Ronaldo,Robinho,Cicinho,Roberto Carlos,Julio Batista...Vanderlei Luxemburgo...

Robinho is one of the best player in the world and Europeans didn't even know about his existence.European teams need FIFA Agents or managers like Juan Figer to bring news from South America.

[aguilas]

It's absurd to think the leagues in Americas are better than the ones in Europe. The European leagues have sucked all the best Brazillian, Argentinian talents for years and if there are any better South/Central american players playing domestically, they would eventually go to Europe to make more money anyway. Obviously there will be cases where some (continent) American players who are just as good not playing in Europe but in general to say the players playing in the the continent American leagues are the best players is insane. However that's not even the point of my previous post. I was saying the US has a deep pool of players playing in many different European leagues, some of them ARE the best leagues in the world. They can bring the different exposure, experience to making of a national team which mexico lacks.

The USA beat Mexico in the WC with most of it's players from the MLS!! I think that the skill of a player isn't measuered by which hempisphere they play in.

[jerkykhanh]

The USA beat Mexico in the WC with most of it's players from the MLS!! I think that the skill of a player isn't measuered by which hempisphere they play in.

Research your facts:

US Roster in WC 2002:

1 FRIEDEL Brad (GK) - England
2 HEJDUK Frankie - Germany
3 BERHALTER Gregg - England
4 MASTROENI Pablo
5 O BRIEN John - Holland
6 REGIS David - France
7 LEWIS Eddie - England
8 STEWART Earnie - Holland
9 MOORE Joe-Max - England
10 REYNA Claudio - England
11 MATHIS Clint
12 AGOOS Jeff
13 JONES Cobi
14 CHERUNDOLO Steve - Germany
15 WOLFF Josh
16 LLAMOSA Carlos
17 BEASLEY DaMarcus
18 KELLER Kasey (GK) - England
19 MEOLA Tony (GK)
20 MC BRIDE Brian
21 DONOVAN Landon
22 SANNEH Tony - Germany
23 POPE Eddie

13 out of 23 were foreign based players and only less than a handful of MLS players were starters. So yes US did beat Mexico in WC with MOST of the foreign based players.

The skill of a player isn't measured by the hemisphere he plays in but it is measured by which league he plays on and how competetive it is. If Maradona played his entire career in some 3rd division league in Argentina, he'd be worthless when he play in the world cup where the competition is the best.

[aguilas]

Research your facts:

US Roster in WC 2002:

1 FRIEDEL Brad (GK) - England
2 HEJDUK Frankie - Germany
3 BERHALTER Gregg - England
4 MASTROENI Pablo
5 O BRIEN John - Holland
6 REGIS David - France
7 LEWIS Eddie - England
8 STEWART Earnie - Holland
9 MOORE Joe-Max - England
10 REYNA Claudio - England
11 MATHIS Clint
12 AGOOS Jeff
13 JONES Cobi
14 CHERUNDOLO Steve - Germany
15 WOLFF Josh
16 LLAMOSA Carlos
17 BEASLEY DaMarcus
18 KELLER Kasey (GK) - England
19 MEOLA Tony (GK)
20 MC BRIDE Brian
21 DONOVAN Landon
22 SANNEH Tony - Germany
23 POPE Eddie

13 out of 23 were foreign based players and only less than a handful of MLS players were starters. So yes US did beat Mexico in WC with MOST of the foreign based players.

The skill of a player isn't measured by the hemisphere he plays in but it is measured by which league he plays on and how competetive it is. If Maradona played his entire career in some 3rd division league in Argentina, he'd be worthless when he play in the world cup where the competition is the best.

This dosen't really have to do with what we were talking about but what happend to Tony Saneh? He was a great player and I never see him anymore

[evilmact]

The fact is that USA knows how to play against Mexico, and Mexico don't.

I dont think USA is a better team, if you analyze it the first 20 min USA played very good, nothing spectacular but at least they had the ball and tried to attack. After that, the rest of the first half was of Mexico, they got the ball, defend well, but they missed creativity in the midfield to open the defence.

When Mexico was playing better usa scored, waited for counters, and that's was all for Mexico. When they played in El Azteca it was completely different, Mexico was a lot better and USA had very few opportunities to score.

The problem is that in a neutral stadium USA is winning the matches, not because they have players in Europe or they play a better football... the reason is they know how to play against us, and that's all. :sad:

I'm glad Lavolpe was confirmed as the coach, there's still a lot of work to do, but I'm sure Mexico is a better team and can improve a lot with players like el Cabrito, Blanco, Pavel, etc.

[Ese_Guy]

what happened,2-0

i thought the usa is no good at soccer and mexico is so great. why 2-0 defeat yesterday.
Mexico lost.
Mexico still is a great soccer nation.
The US is not a great soccer nation but is definately talented and only getting better.

El Kapitan was right when he said that there was never really a rivalry until after WC02. Today, the competition between both countries is becoming fierce. Given the competition within the region, these two are pretty much it.

Both countries have now qualified for WC06.