Italia vs Scotland (WC Qualifier)

[soccerates]

The Call Ups:

Portieri: De Sanctis (Udinese), Peruzzi (Lazio);

Difensori: Barzagli (Palermo), Cannavaro (Juventus), Grosso (Palermo), Materazzi (Inter), Nesta (Milan), Zaccardo (Palermo), Zambrotta (Juventus);

Centrocampisti: Baron (Palermo), Camoranesi (Juventus), De Rossi (Roma), Esposito (Cagliari), Gattuso (Milan), Mesto (Reggina), Pirlo (Milan);

Attaccanti: Totti (Rome), Del Piero (Juventus), Gilardino (Milan), Iaquinta (Udinese), Toni (Fiorentina), Vieri (Milan).

Comments:

I know we're looking for a replacement on the right back, but I still think Chiellini (LB) should be called up, at least to see some possible second half action if we are winning by a decent margin. I've seen limited action from Barzagli, but Zaccardo was the one who tripped over his own two feet vs Ireland giving them their only goal. Other than that he was quite good, let's just hope it was nerves that got to him in one of his debute games.

Barone, Esposito and De Rossi are a big :thumb: up for me.

Cassano has been left out again, possibly due to contract dispute with Roma. Lippi likely feels that his head might not be in the game as they await decisions to move him. Ironically there are more Del Piero rumors, now saying he will be sent to Manchester City (http://www.goal.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=82765&idSez=16) :Pound: ... if that ever happens I'll happily eat my words here, but thankfully they are goal.com rumors which are all speculative nonsense, until of course the actual transfer has happened.

I'm looking forward to Totti behind Gilardino and Vieri. Last time Italy handled the Scots quite easily with a Totti, Gilardino, Cassano combination that ran circles around their defenders. With Vieri/Toni up front the Italians add a needed aerial assault that was missing in that game as the Scots packed their box with defenders and midfielders for most of it. I think the added aerial component will make more room for Gilardino as the defenders will have to contend with Vieri/Toni.

It should be interesting.

[toronto_soccer]

i hope vieri doesn't mess up. the guy just makes me nervous.

[wop82]

Chiellini is out, he can't play now.
It's quite sure that Zaccardo will play RB with Nesta, Cannavaro and Zambrotta.
I don't know why there aren't Bonera and Oddo....anyway I trust in Lippi.
Barzagli is a central defender ex U21.

In any case Italy must win!

[soccerates]

I will be posting my post game thought later on that evening.

We need to win these next two to guarantee qualifications.

Avanti!!

[Maya]

i have feelings that Italy is going to win today.

[soccerates]

i have feelings that Italy is going to win today.

As I told you before Maya...you have good feelings :thumb:

[nimesh0775]

Italy best XI (1993-2005)

GK
Buffon, G

DF
Cannavaro, F
Nesta, A
Maldini, P

MD
Panucci, C
Donadoni, R
Albertini, D
Zambrotta, G

ATT.MID
Totti, F
Del Piero, A

ATT
Vieri, C

[soccerates]

Italy best XI (1993-2005)

GK
Buffon, G

DF
Cannavaro, F
Nesta, A
Maldini, P

MD
Panucci, C
Donadoni, R
Albertini, D
Zambrotta, G

ATT.MID
Totti, F
Del Piero, A

ATT
Vieri, C

If it's from 93 on, you MUST add Baresi, Baggio, Benarrivo b3 :lol:

Minus Pannuci.

Baresi had organizational skills that have not been close to being touched since his time. Baggio was a genius with the ball. Too bad there aren't many old enough (at that time) on these forums to remember. He was equally, if not, greater skilled than Zidane but just did not win enough unfortunately and had a bad spell from the media post 1994. Any Greatest XI without him is incomplete.

[Milos_]

1-0 Scotland HT

[soccerates]

Ok here are my post-game thoughts...randomly...I'llwrite a more thorough review later.

So, first of all, all my critics here who believe I never criticize Italy (although It's absolutely false, as I'm their biggest critic, just read most of my messages about their complacency et al) must be cackling with glee. :ronaldo:

Italy sucked arse for the first 30 minutes :boo: ...no really...they played like they just woke up from a 100 year hangover...crap...no intensity...shit touch on the ball...no effort...getting pushed off the ball easily...bad passing, the whole shebang...garbage.

I found myself thinking that if they play this half arsed they should just stay home.

Maybe we can add a few token excuses in here:

1 - The scottish drinking water was full of tranquelizers :lol:
2 - Scotland sent a bunch of hookers to the Italian hotel the night before :smoking:
3 - Scottish beer is too heavy for Italian constitution :ronaldo:

Kidding aside, Italy looked :crutch: for the first 30 minutes, nuff said.

That said, Lippi really baffled me with his formation. Iaquinta and Vieri up front and no Gilardino? Biz-***king-zare!!! Lippi, dude, Gilardino produces ALL the time when he plays for the Azzurri and Iaquinta hasn't played outside of the friendlies in June...what's the deal old guy?

He didn't bring Cassano because of his contract dispute, which I think is a mistake because he's probably the most technically skilled player we have....and he doesn't start Gilardino...these are dumb moves which I hope he corrects for Wednesday's game!

Vieri buddy....you should only be playing half a game...you have no right foot.

http://www.figc.it/italiano/primo_piano_05/img/foto_home.jpg

Vieri's right foot seems to be good for two things:

1 - Getting on the bus with after the match
2 - Holding himself up while he walks off the pitch

Cuz it ain't good for one time balls. He missed the most glorious of opportunities early in the second half to bury the game. Open net goal does not justify the description of the miss he made.

Iaquinta? Well he missed enough chances himself that I wondered why it took Lippi so long to bring in Luca Toni...a true marksman.

http://www.figc.it/italiano/primo_piano_05/img/foto_primo_piano_01.jpg

Grosso gets the lone Italian goal off of a corner kick that Camoranesi took. The Scottish keeper makes a nice initial save which lands at Grosso's feet and he half volleys it into the top corner,nice strike. He was really a spark plug in the Italian play for the 2nd half. He should stay!

Zaccardo? No big mistakes, but nothing spectacular either.

Nesta got out jumped for the Scottish goal, a nice cross Nesta miss times and Miller buries it. Nothing wrong with the goal at all, Italy's mistake completely.

From there on in, Italy couldn't string together 3 passes if their life depended on it. They were completely getting out hustled to the ball and pushed off of it, you had to wonder if maybe they thought it would be fun to smoke a big fat joint before the game. Really!! Sometimes I wonder if these guys like playing practicle jokes like that.

10 minutes from the half, however, and for the whole of the 2nd half Italy woke up and dominated Scotland. There was no contest, except for Vieri being able to stay in for the whole game. He's a good marksman, but giving him that kind of game play might be too much for him now...even if he has found form...I think he should be relegated to super sub status.

There was a lot of play acting by the Scottish forward Nigel Quashie :red-card: . The guy whined for almost all touches he had on him...even throwing himself to the ground after Zaccardo cleared the ball from him in the Italian box, looking for a penalty. :boo:

Italy got away with nothing however. In terms of fouling the Scots that is...they certainly got away with not showing up for most of the first half. :mad2:

Both Zambrotta and De Rossi were rightfully booked for dumb tackles...and Scotland got away with nothing in the second when two of their men were booked as well. Overall the ref did a very good job of keeping this game flowing and not making unneccesary calls.

Nevertheless, Grosso comes in and Toni and the game changes...also Camoranesi in for De Rossi and more intensity through the midfield...it was in Scotlands end for most of it. The Scots did well to pack their box and simply boot the ball out of their own end whenever a dangerous attack came in. What's important here is that Italy woke up and stopped givingthe ball away, holding possession through the midfield, which meant that Scotland was relegated to having to chase the ball. This tired them out quickly and Italy was able to penetrate through the middle.

Vieri, as I said above, misses an absolute sitter...but thankfully Grosso puts his away after Camoranesi sends in a nice corner kick, which the Scottish keeper makes the initial save (very nice) and puts it directly to Grosso who buries it top corner. (as I mentioned above) at first I thought it was Toni, but it's being reported as Grosso's goal. It was hard to see it in the bar amongst all the Scottish fans :)

Peruzzi had absolutely NOTHING to do for the rest of the game. :bored:

The 1-1 score was a gift to Scotland, but a well deserved one. They gave it all they had, but when their intensity wore off, their lack of technical play was exposed.

I've said in past messages on this board and elsewhere that sometimes it's good when Italy are scored on first because they usually wake up from complacency right away, andmake no bones about it...it was their LACK of play and not necessarily the Scottish great play that was the cause of their first half shite. Scotland gave their all, and deserve their goal...well done :thumb:

Now, I'm not taking anything away from Scotland, but it was less brilliance technically from them, and more hustle that got them their first half goal and had them control most of the play. As I said, the Italians couldn't string together more than 3 passes for the most of the 1st half.

It took them long enough to wake up and probably a little too late, since they only managed the 1 goal...Vieri's blunder notwithstanding, there were about 4-5 other chances that should have ended as a goal, but poor finishing was the culprite...Gilardino...where are you? Lippi :noidea:

Anyhow, that's all for now...I'm off to watch a less important, and less stressful ;) game...Denmark vs Turkey...should be fun.


For all the Italy detractors...have fun while it lasts :p

[toronto_soccer]

italy has to be tougher. meaner. and did y'all like how camoranesi changed the game. totti is excellent except for corner kicks, he's brutal. anyways those are my comments.

[RaulMadrid7]

overall Italy should have won it they had most possession but Scotland defended well, Italy played bad IMO not the ussuall Italy I'm used to seeing but anyways Scotland hanged in there and it was a tie 1-1.

Oh and by the way did you see Totti's midair slap on that scottish player? :lol:

It was funny but sad that Totti still can't control his immaturity.

[soccerates]

italy has to be tougher. meaner. and did y'all like how camoranesi changed the game. totti is excellent except for corner kicks, he's brutal. anyways those are my comments.


Absolutely correct. This half arsed shit they played for the first 35 minutes makes me ill :fed-up: When they need to wake up they do, but too little too late. No more of this boyz...it's getting a little tiresome...put the new blood in, they're hungryl; Gilardino, Diana, Barone, Esposito...etc...Grosso added necessary punch when he was put in. Camoranesi as well, and Toni began to split the otherwise impenetratable Tartan defense.

Lippi...this is a wake up call...old blood (Vieri OUT) new blood (Gila and Cassano) IN!

[soccerates]

overall Italy should have won it they had most possession but Scotland defended well, Italy played bad IMO not the ussuall Italy I'm used to seeing but anyways Scotland hanged in there and it was a tie 1-1.

Oh and by the way did you see Totti's midair slap on that scottish player? :lol:

It was funny but sad that Totti still can't control his immaturity.

Actually that was Nesta, sorry dude. Nesta and Miller were both going for the ball and Nesta's arm was behind him and slapped Miller in the face. He got called for it. The favor was returned a little later on ON Totti...this time he received the slap though. So I think you have them a bit mixed up?

[soccerates]

My comments: Lippi might be satisfied with the point because it keeps Italy abreast of their group by 2 pts, but it's nothing to be satisfied about since Italy was basically asleep for 35 minutes of the match, then woke up to play once they realized Scotland wasn't just going to roll over and play dead. Their problem is that they still haven't found their killer instinct, and must always wait till their backs are up against a wall to start dominating their opponents. Thing is, when that happens, they DO. So why not start like that from the beginning? Get a good Sport Psychologist in there...maybe a German one ;)

Once Italy started to gain control over the midfield, it was clear that the Scots couldn't manage to get the ball away from them and were playing keep away. The Scots began to slow down from chasing the ball so much, and began fouling, and their lack of technical play was exposed. However it was almost too late because they were defending their 1 goal lead in numbers, with defenders packing the box making it hard for the Italians to penetrate. The Italians did however, and Vieri missed another open net. That guy has a non existant right foot. Apparently the article below states that Gilardino had a minor injury but should be ready to go for Wednesday. I sure hope so!

And bring back Cassano for chrise saxes!! With Cassano and Gilardino in the lienup, the Azzurri ran circles around the Scots last time.

Scotland did however only have that one chance, and Peruzzi was not threatened again for the remainder of the game.


Lippi Satisfied With Italy’s Point (http://www.goal.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=83791&progr=0)

http://media.goal.com/200509/9441_news.jpg

9/4/2005 3:31:00 AM
Marcello Lippi was satisfied with the result, but not Italy’s performance in the 1-1 WCQ draw with Scotland at Hampden Park.
“We only allowed them one real chance in the first half and let ourselves get taken by surprise,” said Lippi.

“You could see we were trying to attack and kept that up for all 90 minutes. I liked the side, apart from a few minor problems. Kenny Miller did very well and gave our defenders a lot of things to think about.”

Miller’s 13th minute goal put the Scots in front until substitute Fabio Grosso equalised in the 76th minute following a corner.

Lippi confessed that he had not expected Miller to cause his defence so many problems.

He said: "We were surprised by Miller. Our defenders tried to stop him in any way they could.

"The Scots played very well, especially the striker. Yes, it was a mistake for the Scottish goal. We were confused.

"I am happy with the result, but not with the performance."

Lippi will have to make some major changes to his Azzurri line-up for the next game because Gianluca Zambrotta and Daniele De Rossi are both suspended, while Alberto Gilardino was unable to participate in Glasgow thanks to a last-minute injury.

“Gilardino didn’t look sharp to me and he agreed. We’ll recover our fitness levels and see what happens in Belarus, as from this evening we’ll begin to think about solutions for that line-up,” explained Lippi.

Palermo full-back Grosso was the Italians’ hero, scoring their first-ever goal in Scotland.

“I didn’t know that, so it’s an extra special goal for me,” said the substitute. “It was already incredible that it was my first Azzurri goal and that it helped us to earn a precious point in a tough game.”

Palermo made their first Serie A appearance in 30 years last season, but have already put several of their players into the Azzurri squad.

But Grosso admitted that Italy’s performance was below par and that they must improve to stay top of Group Five and qualify for the 2006 World Cup finals. The 2-0 victory by Moldova against Belarus was a positive result for Italy.

“We knew it was going to be difficult here and they put us under pressure, but we fought back and fully deserved our point,” said Grosso. Obviously, we hope to do better in Belarus on Wednesday.”

[Maya]

I have nothing to add, you guys said it all but Italy is going to make it up on their next match!

[Darran]

It is obvious who has the more superior technical ability on paper, but the result is unexpected to say the least. Once again the Azzurri has underperformed, they have the talent but they do not have the right tactics

[soccerates]

It is obvious who has the more superior technical ability on paper,

Actually in the game too, once the Italians woke up. Scotland gave their all for 35 minutes but as soon as they began tiring out their lack of technical play was exposed. Too little too late by then, cuz everyone and their dog knows how to pack the box...and pack it they did!!


but the result is unexpected to say the least. Once again the Azzurri has underperformed, they have the talent but they do not have the right tactics

It's less a matter of tactics (although I partially agree with this game) and more a matter of attitude in today's game. Their tactics were fine once they woke up and started trying at about the 35-40th minute mark, but by that time Scotland gave Italy their all and were content to sit back and pack the box...boot the ball up field everytime they got it.

[RaulMadrid7]

After watching this game and many other recent games by Italy, I'd like to think of Italy as unique person, they sleep half of the day the wake up with excitement, although it is too late and it's getting dark meaning it's time to go back to sleep, well it's time to give that person the pills(Gilardino, Cassano etc...) and once he get's the pills and gets rid of the sickness(Vieri) then he can finally play THE WHOLE GAME LIKE HE WANTS TO WIN.

lol.... :lol: :rolleyes:

anyways... the bottom line is Italy needs to change, they have the talent but they need to start using it, and most of all they need to stop underestimating teams like Scotland because there will be plenty of surprises in the World Cup if they do. :evil:

[toronto_soccer]

totti also slapped a guy yesterday. he turned away from the scotsman and slapped him in mid air. he was clever about it, but he better smarten up and behave like a professional imo.

[soccerates]

anyways... the bottom line is Italy needs to change,

Overall yes, but in recent games they have shown hints of this change...just they don't take them into key matches. They do have the talent, the change that needs to come is in attitude...and that's something that is hard to change over the years. Italy always start slow then pick up the pace as the tournament, or whatever, progresses.

It's a law of physics :lol: called "conservation of momentum" ;)

The problem arises when they miscaculate (Denmark 04) and because of that tie are eliminated early.

That year Italy had the squad, as did in 02, 00, 98 to win, but never got their either because of bad tactics (98 Baggio was to be used) 00 bad luck (DP misses two open nets) 02 (bad refing and poor finishing - Vieir vs S. Korea, but at the same time Tomassi's golden goal was called back), 04 (starting off slow vs Denmark, poor finishing vs Sweden). These aren't excuses, they are facts.

We all know the talent is there, a combination of an attitude change, proper use of players and tactics should solve it overnight.

Now where's Anthony Robbins when you need him :lol:


they have the talent but they need to start using it, and most of all they need to stop underestimating teams like Scotland

It was less of an underestimation and more of playing slowly and with little intensity at the beginning of the game. I suppose if they thought Scotlan was going to be a cake walk, you could attribute it to that, but somehow I don't think so because even after the goal it took them another 20 minutes to wake up. Traditionally when they start off slow like going down 1-0 to Norway last year at this time, they come back immediately and pick up the intensity immediately. On this occasion they looked slow. I was expecting them to pick up the pace immediately, but it took 20 minutes. By that time, Scotland had regrouped and changed tactics significantly and were defending in numbers.

Overall, I give Scotland a major :thumb: for their effort and approach to the game, but their technical inferiority was clear...and Vieri needs to re calibrate his right foot ;)

[soccerates]

totti also slapped a guy yesterday. he turned away from the scotsman and slapped him in mid air. he was clever about it, but he better smarten up and behave like a professional imo.

K, I must have missed that one, and if he did it, someone (like me) should be allowed into the dressing room to slap him in the face :mad2:

I remember three incidents of slapping, all three were innocent IMO...Nesta slapps Miller (Ithink) then someone slapped Totti and again another Scot slapped Cannavaro, but the last one was the least problematic. I don't remember seeing the Totti one...and if what you say is true then :boo: to him!

[nimesh0775]

If it's from 93 on, you MUST add Baresi, Baggio, Benarrivo b3 :lol:

Minus Pannuci.

Baresi had organizational skills that have not been close to being touched since his time. Baggio was a genius with the ball. Too bad there aren't many old enough (at that time) on these forums to remember. He was equally, if not, greater skilled than Zidane but just did not win enough unfortunately and had a bad spell from the media post 1994. Any Greatest XI without him is incomplete.


All were considered, but this is on the consistency of their appearance in the national side over many years. Baggio, although world class (and better ability than Del Piero), only featured in the italy national team for one year - 93/94, after which del piero took over.

In terms of many players e.g. Baresi, they didn't make it because it is based on the last 12 years - not years before that e.g. 1990/91, 91/92, 92/93.

Benarrivo was not consistently selected in the national team after 1994 (lost his place to Panucci and Pessotto)

[soccerates]

All were considered, but this is on the consistency of their appearance in the national side over many years. Baggio, although world class (and better ability than Del Piero), only featured in the italy national team for one year - 93/94, after which del piero took over.

Baggio was 10X more influential for the NT than DP ever was.


In terms of many players e.g. Baresi, they didn't make it because it is based on the last 12 years - not years before that e.g. 1990/91, 91/92, 92/93.

Ok fair enough, but why limit it to 93 then?

I'd be interesting in seeing your Best XI of all time in this case...maybe make a new thread.


Benarrivo was not consistently selected in the national team after 1994 (lost his place to Panucci and Pessotto)

Which was a shame...Panucci sux.

[nimesh0775]

Baggio was 10X more influential for the NT than DP ever was.



Ok fair enough, but why limit it to 93 then?

I'd be interesting in seeing your Best XI of all time in this case...maybe make a new thread.



Which was a shame...Panucci sux.

Yes, Baggio was more influential - but not as influential as Del Piero from the time period 1993-2005.

It is limited to 1993, because my study is based on all countries, and i can only get data for line-ups to 93 for all nations.

If someone can make an all-time line-up for italy based on actual stats, then that may be good.

Panucci, to be fair was the 1st choice right back for AC Milan and Real Madrid when they won their respective European Cups. He also figured more regularly in Italy's starting line-up than any other Italian right-back from 1993-2005. He is also still a regular at AS Roma. Also played at top European sides like Inter Milan, Chelsea and AS Monaco.

[soccerates]

Yes, Baggio was more influential - but not as influential as Del Piero from the time period 1993-2005.

Baggio, for the NT, carried Italy to the WC finals in 1994, and I'm willing to wager that had he not torn his hamstring in the semi-final, he would have led Italy to the cup. I do believe that. Brazil threw all they had at Italy, but no dice, except for Santo's strike. Italy, for what it's worth, couldn't find room for both Zola and Baggio :confused: Yes I know they both play the same position, but I'm fairly certain Baggio would have been more comfortable in Massaro's position with less running up front, leaving the workload to talented and inspiring Zola to produce for him

Had Baggio won that cup, he would be mentioned in the same breath as Zidane, and even Maradona.

Nevetheless, he was still a member of qualifying for some years after that.

As I said, if your parameters are 1993 on, then perhaps DP was influential, but not as influential in major tournaments as Baggio was...DP single handidly lost us the Euro in 2000. Luv him as much as I do, it was painful to see him miss two goals that he normally scores regularly in Serie A.


It is limited to 1993, because my study is based on all countries, and i can only get data for line-ups to 93 for all nations.

I'm fairly certain if you do a google search you can find the rest. Just be specific with your search parameters.


If someone can make an all-time line-up for italy based on actual stats, then that may be good.

I'll see what I can do.


Panucci, to be fair was the 1st choice right back for AC Milan and Real Madrid when they won their respective European Cups. He also figured more regularly in Italy's starting line-up than any other Italian right-back from 1993-2005. He is also still a regular at AS Roma. Also played at top European sides like Inter Milan, Chelsea and AS Monaco.

I never liked him. I thought Pessotto was much better and I blame Panucci for the goals that eliminated Italy in 02!