MLS Toronto Expansion

[El Kapitan]

If you are into this forum you are probably familiarized with the following article, I just wanted to bring it here to get the Canadian feedback of the matter, do you guys support the idea, or not?

Although the 2005 Major League Soccer soccer season has yet to begin, it's not too early to start thinking about the next round of expansion.

The addition of CD Chivas USA and Real Salt Lake for the upcoming campaign marks the beginning of an aggressive plan of growth by MLS, which could see the league reach as many as 20 clubs. It is all but certain that two more expansion sides will enter the league by the 2007 season, meaning that the announcement of the new cities could come by year's end.

And right now, there is no short supply of those expressing at least preliminary interest. Seattle, Cleveland, Rochester, Portland, Detroit, Houston, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Antonio, to name just a few, with the list seemingly growing by the month.

Yet there is one potential MLS city that currently stands out as ideal above all the rest, and beckons as the perfect choice for the league's next round of expansion. For starters, it would house the new club in a state-of-the-art 25,000-seat soccer-specific stadium, to be opened in 2007. Secondly, the ownership/investor group is an established, respected, and locally based multi-million dollar sports corporation, willing to make a long-term commitment. Thirdly, the city has a metro population of 5.3 million residents, and is renowned as hip, vibrant, and cosmopolitan.

And there's more. A history of soccer that dates back to the formative years of the NASL, as well as an active tradition of strongly supporting other major league professional sports. A diverse and growing ethnic population. A youth soccer registry of 363,000 active players in the region. A genuine desire to see MLS come to their city.

Sounds perfect, and I think it is for MLS. There's just one thing though; it's not located in the United States.

The city which I am advocating is Toronto, and rather than see its foreign location as a negative, I consider it as the final positive in this expansion equation. By placing a new franchise in Toronto, MLS is not just creating substantial interest in new city, they are in fact doing so in a new country. The Toronto MLS club would become "Canada's Team" for the country's legion of soccer fans.

While other cities continually discuss plans and express their desire to construct a soccer-specific stadium, Toronto is definitely going to have one in place and ready to house an MLS club. A 25,000 seat venue will be constructed as the centerpiece for Canada's hosting of the 2007 FIFA World Youth Championship, at a cost of $70 million Canadian (about $56.5 million in U.S. Dollars).

All times ET, subject to change.
Although the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian Football League have already signed on as a tenant, make no mistake, this stadium is being built primarily for soccer. The plan is to create not only the main venue for Canada's international matches, but also to attract an expansion club in MLS.

Ownership has also been an issue that has rendered many cities interested in gaining an MLS franchise nothing more than dreamers. No such problem here, as Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, owners of the NHL's Toronto Maple Leafs and NBA's Toronto Raptors, is the group currently in discussions with the league to bring an expansion club to the city. Obviously, finances and reputation will not be a problem.

Now, I know that one issue that will be raised in objection to Toronto, is the fact that MLS is an American soccer league, and thus should include only American cities. Well, I reject that type of thinking outright as contrary to the global nature and inherent inclusiveness of the sport.

If Cardiff City were to be promoted to the Premiership, does that somehow make the league less English? Not a chance. MLS is the American First Division, and that will simply not change if a club is placed in Toronto, or Mexico City for that matter. The designation comes from where the league office and the vast majority of its clubs are based.

Then there is the issue of FIFA, and whether they will approve. I've spoken to top league officials about this very subject, and have been told the same thing: FIFA won't have a problem whatsoever. And really, why would they? A chance to further grow and enhance the sport in both the US and Canada; why would Sepp Blatter be anything but wholly supportive and utterly joyous? It's not like Canada has their own domestic first division that would be put at risk. Last time I looked, the CSL went out of business after the 1992 season.

And it's not like a precedent would have to be set. The NASL happily existed with as many as five Canadian clubs, and despite its name, was generally considered an American soccer league. Last year, the U.S. second division A-League had a total of 16 clubs, five of which were based in Canada. FIFA never raised an objection in either case.

Internationally, the precedent has long been set as well. Now, the U.N. may not recognize Wales as a separate nation, but FIFA certainly does. I've already cited the Cardiff City example, a side currently in the English Championship. There's also Wrexham in England's League 1 and Swansea in England's League 2. Australia's top flight, to be relaunched this year as the Hyundai A-League, will include Auckland Kingz, based of course in New Zealand. And then there is Lichtenstein's top club, FC Vaduz, who play in the Swiss second division.

So Toronto in MLS is not exactly going to create an idealogical quandary for FIFA.

Now, as for the 'citizen' classification, that won't be a problem either. Canadians on the Toronto franchise would almost certainly be afforded the same status given to Americans on the U.S. based MLS clubs. Any non-Canadian would then fall into the foreign player category, clearing the way for a large number of the country's internationals to join the club without restriction.

It would be in the best interest of both Major league Soccer and the expansion club in Toronto to create a de-facto National Team, which both the city and the country could get behind with patriotic zeal and pride. The Toronto matches would be shown on television nationally, not just locally or regionally, and likely in both English and French. Media coverage and merchandising would exist across Canada as well, obviously boosting the profile and expanding the support base of MLS.

Finally, I know that some American fans are going to claim that placing an MLS club in Toronto is going to help the Canadian squad. Now I do agree that Canada will benefit from having many of its internationals playing together on a weekly basis, but I don't see this as a detriment to the success of the U.S. National Team.

The United States has achieved the status of the top nation in CONCACAF and emerging world power in the sport, and as supporters we should feel secure in these facts. For the American squad to keep improving and gaining more impressive results, it's vital that MLS becomes both bigger and better. If Canada or any other country benefits as a result, that's absolutely fine with me.

Major League Soccer is going to keep adding clubs over the next decade; this simply is not in question. It's paramount then that the right cities, possessing the right stadium, ownership group, and fans, be selected to ensure the continual growth and success of the league. As MLS enters its tenth season, the margin for error afforded to new leagues has now all but disappeared. Major League Soccer must choose wisely when determining where to place a new franchise. Toronto now looms as the perfect choice.

Next week in this column, I'll interview Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment President and CEO Richard Peddie, the man at the forefront of the Toronto MLS bid.

So what do you think MLS in Canada :thumbsup: or MLS in Canada :boo:

[Gennadios]

Sure, hopefully they'll play better than the Mexican teams ( Chivas... :dontcare: )

Go CANADIA!

I always thought D'wayne Rosario was black.

He's white!

That's like a black guy being named... Alessandro Spinucci.

[Dado_Prso_09]

that wûd be great only if they get a team in vancoûver :thumbsup:

[Joe MacCarthy]

The article posted is way out of date. Here is a more recent article. The Argos are no longer in the picture and the part about Toronto being Canada's team... I don't think so. The CSA's goal is to have TO, Mtl and Van in MLS (all will have SSS by 2007) with other big cities in USL2.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/Canada/2005/07/09/1124258-sun.html

A new kick at soccer venue
By ROB GRANATSTEIN -- Toronto Sun

Time's running out in the last ditch for a pitch.

Toronto is back in the game to bring a 20,000- seat soccer stadium to Exhibition Place, rather than letting it go to Vaughan or Oakville, but it will have to work quickly.

"Exhibition Place is the perfect location," Mayor David Miller said. "Whether it's possible to do that depends on the federal government because they're the major funder."

The city would offer the site and may have to fill the gap between the $35 million the province, Ottawa and private investors have already committed to and the total cost, expected to be at least $45 million.

"I'm not sure the city can be relied on to do that," Miller said yesterday about filling the potential $10-million gap.

Miller said the deadline has already passed, but without a final location, there's still hope. The stadium has to be ready for the FIFA soccer world youth championship starting July 1, 2007.

Kevan Pipe, the Canadian Soccer Association's chief operating officer, said construction would have to start by year's end.

Councillor Mark Grimes, who has been working feverishly behind the scenes to try and co-ordinate a deal between the city, the federal government and international sports management firm IMG, agrees the Ex is perfect, and the stadium could be used for concerts and even seating for future Molson Indys.

"I said to the mayor there's no way you can let this go to Vaughan," Grimes said, adding that the business case for the stadium works.

Grimes has met with IMG Canada's executive director, Kevin Albrecht, and with Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment in a bid to get a deal done. Bob Hunter, MLSE's senior v-p, said the Leafs want to bring a professional Major League Soccer franchise to the city, and a downtown stadium would be a great fit.

[penguin_007]

yeah toronto!!! lets hope the same happens to the whitecaps sometimes soon.

[Toke-E-Yo]

mhm itr needs to go to Vancouver to

[PrAvI HrVaT]

This would be great, maybe i could see a game or two.

[Maccabi 4ever]

after the vancouver whitecaps 3-0 pounding of sunderland an english priemership team i think that the whitecaps should move to the mls it may sound radical but i think its a possibilty

[Kezman9]

when will this msl team finally come here?, i want to go to some games, its really depressing that we have no profressional soccer games to go to, unless your into the toronto lynx :boo: :boo: :boo: :boo: :boo: i love when european teams come here, but its only once a year, and only a few games are played.

[toronto_soccer]

this is getting good, as i've been hearing these rumours for a while. i seriously hope toronto will support an mls team, i will for sure.

[cris_Lee]

http://tinypic.com/dgnzlu.jpg

[TheItalianBull]

i think the impact should go to msl NOW :lol: :ronaldo: :D

[Kezman9]

i cant wait untill a mls team comes here.

[Ese_Guy]

Past, present cover league address (http://www.mlsnet.com/content/printer_friendly/y2005/m07/d29/c38318.html)

"On the expansion front, Garber did not announce any definite additions to the league, but confirmed the 2007 season is the target for the next round of expansion. His comments indicated that Toronto is at the top of the list of candidates.

"We were in Toronto yesterday to discuss the future of MLS in Canada," he said, adding that Houston, Cleveland, Milwaukee and St. Louis are also on the list. "Our ultimate goal is to be an 18-team league across the United States and Canada at some point in the future."

[Brantford_Tim]

A MLS team in Toronto would be great as long as the CSA don't try to turn it into a national B team loaded with canadian talent. Lets try to get some
half decent foreign talent in as well so the team would be competitive,
and keep Frank yallop well away from this team would be a great start.

[Joe MacCarthy]

As you know that "terrible" coach Frank Yallop has been the subject of more than one rumour mill about a return to MLS. Your constant one track agenda seems to not jive with how many see his usefulness.

[Joe MacCarthy]

MLS paves way for Toronto team

CANADIAN PRESS

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1129029066486&call_pageid=1044529386722&col=1044529386490

Major League Soccer has opened the door to an expansion team in Toronto, providing on-again, off-again plans for a stadium are nailed down by the end of the month.

Commissioner Don Garber said the league has done “the hard work” with would-be owner Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd., owner of the NHL Leafs and NBA Raptors, and the Canadian Soccer Association, which has done a lot of the donkey work in keeping the stadium plan alive.

Now MLS wants the stadium situation sorted pronto, with Garber looking to have a Toronto team in place in 2007. That works for the Canadian Soccer Association, which needs a showcase soccer-specific stadium to help host the 2007 world under-20 soccer championship.

“There’s not a lot of time to get this building built,” Garber said on a conference call Tuesday in announcing the Oct. 31 deadline to firm up stadium plans. “There’s no reason to wait. We want to know where we stand. But if we wait too long, then all of this drags out. Toronto loses its stadium, loses its team and then ultimately has the potential of not having a good spot to play the (under-20) World Cup.”

Up next, the proposed site at Exhibition Place has to be approved and Toronto City Council has to puts its money where the mayor’s mouth is.

The Exhibition Place board of governors has to approve the project, and several levels of City Council have to give a green light to $9.5 million in promised funding at meetings that start Oct. 26. As land-owner, the City of Toronto would own the stadium.

If all that happens, MLSE will commit dollars and “we’ll sign on the dotted line for a franchise,” said Richard Peddie, president of MLSE.

Kevan Pipe, chief operating officer of the Canadian Soccer Association, says Garber’s announcement represented a “huge step” forward in the right direction. But he acknowledged there is still work to do.

It is not the first deadline imposed by MLS. Just the most public.

“Don’s been great,” said Peddie. “He gave us a deadline in June, July, August, September, Oct. 1. And I think he’s given us his final deadline. He’s not trying to play brinkmanship. From what I can tell, he’s got other choices.”

Adding to his ultimatum, Garber said the league needs a decision for its Nov. 12 board meeting. The next gathering is slated for March, which he says would be too late.

“We are close to finalizing a deal for ’07. We’ve given MLSE an exclusive window through the end of the month, Oct. 31 to negotiate a deal for an expansion team,” Garber said.

The 12-team league added two new franchises this season: Real Salt Lake and FC Chivas, which plays out of Carson, Calif. Those expansion franchises cost $10 million US apiece.

Garber said the expansion price tag this time is “slightly higher.”

The league is looking for a second expansion team in 2007, with the leading candidates Cleveland, Philadelphia, Houston, Milwaukee and St. Louis, Garber said.

The MLS deadline puts some pressure on the various partners involved in the stadium project to settle their differences and get a shovel in the ground. The stadium has been an on-again, off-again affair with sites shelved at both the University of Toronto and York University.

More recently there has been disagreement between various levels of government involved in helping fund the project on whether it should be built on the lakefront at Exhibition Place or in the northern part of the city at Downsview Park.

The current budget of the stadium is around $62 million Cdn.

The federal government, which owns the Downsview land but now seems to have signed off on Exhibition Place, has pledged $27 million with another $8 million from the provincial government. If the city pledges $9.65 million, that leaves a little more than $17 million needed.

Part of that shortfall will be made up in selling naming rights to the stadium, a process that is already under way.

MLSE is ready to contribute the rest although it won’t say how much that is other than to say “it’s substantial.”

Garber called Exhibition Place “the perfect location.” The property is adjacent to Ontario Place on the lakefront and once housed Exhibition Stadium, the former home to the Argos and Blue Jays. It currently is home to the Ricoh Coliseum, where the American Hockey League Marlies play, and the annual CNE summer fair.

An MLS team would give Canadian talent a chance to develop domestically in the highest level of North American club soccer.

MLS is a so-called single-entity organization. That means the players are under contract to the league, which then allocates them to the individual franchises.

A team in Toronto would consist of Canadians, with perhaps a few imports just as U.S. teams are largely American with a limit on foreigners.

Canadians currently in MLS include Pat Onstad and Dwayne DeRosario (San Jose Earthquakes), Will Johnson (Chicago Fire) and Winston Marshall (FC Dallas).

While the MLS franchise carries a significant expansion fee and stadium costs, soccer represents a budget sport to Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment when compared to the five-star world of hockey or basketball.

The current salary budget for MLS teams is about $1.8 million US per squad.

“That was the price of one hockey player a year ago,” Peddie said.

The league minimum for a senior roster player was $28,000 US in 2005.

As for attendance, Peddie says if a Toronto MLS team can draw 13,000 to 15,000 per game, “that would do the job for us.”

Garber, who is always open to expansion possibilities, did not rule out other Canadian teams in the future. The Montreal Impact of the United Soccer League already have a new stadium in the works, and the Vancouver Whitecaps are also looking to build.

“The intent is in time to expand to other cities in Canada and we’re actually very excited about that,” Garber said. “We just have not put a particular timetable in place as to when exactly that would happen.”

Garber even talked of maybe convincing Canadian national team coach Frank Yallop, a former MLS coach of the year with the San Jose Earthquakes, to return to MLS.

If that were to happen, Yallop might have to give up a job. Pipe said coaching the national team is a “full-time occupation.” Yallop, who has dismissed rumours he is looking to return to a MLS team, is under contract through the end of 2006 with the national team.

[Joe MacCarthy]

MLS paves the way for Toronto expansion

By NEIL DAVIDSON
Tuesday, October 11, 2005 Posted at 5:24 PM EDT
Canadian Press

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051011.wmls11/BNStory/Sports/

Toronto — Major League Soccer has paved the way for an expansion team in 2007 in Toronto, providing on-again, off-again plans for a stadium are nailed down by the end of the month.

Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. is spearheading the drive for an MLS team.

"We are close to finalizing a deal for '07. We've given MLSE an exclusive window through the end of the month, Oct. 31 to negotiate a deal for an expansion team," commissioner Don Garber said in a conference call.

"We're very excited about our budding relationship with MLSE ... We think they are fantastic operators, not just in hockey and basketball."

The MLS move puts some pressure on the various partners involved in the stadium project to settle their differences and get a shovel in the ground. The stadium has been an on-again, off-again affair with sites shelved at both the University of Toronto and York University.

More recently there has been disagreement between various levels of government involved in helping fund the $60-million project on whether it should be built on the lakefront at Exhibition Place or in the northern part of the city at Downsview Park.

MLSE has also agreed to help fund the 20,000-seat stadium. MLSE president Richard Peddie did not immediately return a phone call.

The federal government, which owns the Downsview land, has pledged $27 million with another $8-million from the provincial government.

The city has said it will contribute $9.5-million if the stadium goes to Exhibition Place, which now seems the more likely site.

The 12-team league added two new franchises this season: Real Salt Lake and FC Chivas, which plays out of Carson, Calif. Those expansion franchises cost $10-million (U.S.) apiece and Garber said the price tag this time round will be "slightly higher."

The league is looking for a second expansion team in 2007, with the leading candidates Cleveland, Philadelphia, Houston, Milwaukee and St. Louis, Garber said.

An MLS team would give Canadian talent a chance to develop domestically in the highest level of North American club soccer.

The outdoor stadium will also play a key role in Canada hosting the 2007 world under-20 championship.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Don Garber on MLS in Toronto conference call. Conference call starts at 35 minutes.
http://web.servicebureau.net/conf/meta?i=1112617491&c=15586&m=was&u=/w.xsl

[Joe MacCarthy]

MLS franchise in Toronto?
By NEIL DAVIDSON

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/2005/10/12/1259698-cp.html

(CP) - The Canadian Soccer Association is rushing toward a Major League Soccer franchise in Toronto and the domestic game could suffer as a result, according to the Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps.

They applaud Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. for getting into soccer. And they welcome the possibility of another soccer-specific stadium in Canada - the Impact have already announced plans for a new 15,000-seat home while the Whitecaps have a called a news conference for Thursday to announce their own 15,000-seat stadium project.

But they say the time for an MLS team in Toronto is not right.

"I think we're rushing to it too quickly," Impact owner Joey Saputo said Wednesday from Montreal.

"I think there's a lot of good to it, but at the same time I think there might be a lot of bad in it and may affect us negatively. And unfortunately we're making decisions today without really looking at the full scope of how it's going to affect the game, not only in Montreal and in Vancouver and Toronto, but across the country."

Bob Lenarduzzi, director of soccer operations for the Whitecaps, is on the same page as Saputo.

"We seem to be putting far too much emphasis on one MLS team in our country, and that being a cure to our woes at the international level. I don't think it's going to work that way," he said from Vancouver.

A former national team coach, Lenarduzzi knows firsthand how Canadian soccer has paid the price for poor infrastructure.

"Everyone can blame the national team coaches, but as far as our game goes we have not been doing a good job from bottom to top," he said from Vancouver. "We need to start at the bottom. We need to build a strong foundation and move on from there.

"I think we're starting to do that. MLS coming along at a time when we're putting the bricks in place, it just seems like it's too soon."

He says Canada's pro clubs, the provincial soccer associations and CSA should be working together "from the bottom up."

Added Saputo: "I don't think we are ready. I don't think Canada is ready. . . . I don't think that by having one MLS franchise in Canada are we going to really develop the game we need to develop it."

Lenarduzzi worries a single MLS team in Toronto will continue the fragmentation that has hurt the Canadian soccer.

"That's not a knock on MLS either," he said. "I think MLS has done great things for the game in the United States. And at the appropriate time, anyone in the soccer world in Canada would love to be a part of playing in the best league in North America."

But both the Impact and Whitecaps, considered model franchises in the second-tier United Soccer League, stand to lose if the first-tier MLS comes to Toronto.

"What is going to be the reaction from the fans in Montreal, knowing they have become a second division (team)? What's going to be the reaction from the fans in Vancouver when the Whitecaps become a second division (team)?" asked Saputo.

Top players will be drawn to the MLS franchise because of its higher profile and pay.

"It's going to do that, that's a fact," said Lenarduzzi. "It's also going to probably result in, if we want to keep some of those players, spending more money than we have been spending.

"The broadcast side of it, if they're on national television, that comes back into our markets.

"What I don't want to portray is that we're upset with MLS or MLSE, We just feel the time is wrong. And it should be more of a co-ordinated approach. Especially when you've got two owners like Saputo and (Vancouver's Greg) Kerfoot."

Kevan Pipe, the CSA's chief operating officer, responds by saying the Impact are already seeing domestic talent like Sandro Grande leaving for the greener pastures of Europe.

And he argues the opportunity to hook up MLS, MLSE and the Toronto stadium project could not be missed.

"We can't wait," Pipe said. "To buy into that argument says that we wait for another five years. MLSE has many opportunities to move in many other different directions. . . . That argument has to be categorically rejected. We cannot continue to wait for other rainbows occurring on other days. The time to move is now."

Saputo doesn't see it that way.

"If it's good today, I think it'll be better in the future," he said.

"If there's an opportunity for Kevan Pipe and the CSA to have their stadium and at the same time that they have their stadium, they're able to get an MLS franchise, you grab it when it's hot," he acknowledged. "But that's not necessarily the best thing. I think what you need to take a look at is how is this particular decision going to affect development of the game across the country."

The Toronto Lynx, the third Canadian USL franchise, had previously objected to MLS in Toronto but seems to have come round to the idea of playing in the proposed new stadium, according to local reports.

Notes: The Whitecaps are planning to announce a 15,000-seat stadium on the waterfront by the cruise ship terminal near the Pan Pacific Hotel. The team, which has already bought the land, hopes the federal government may be interested in getting involved like it has with the Toronto stadium. No price tag has been set, but it is expected to be in the ball park of the $60 million the Toronto facility will cost.

[Ese_Guy]

More . . .

US: MLS Announces Plans For Toronto (http://www.goal.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=92524&idSez=19)

http://media.goal.com/200407/1967_news.jpg?ver=1


10/11/2005 10:08:00 PM

American top-flight league, MLS, announced it is close to landing a franchise in the Canadian city of Toronto for the 2007 MLS season.

"We have been working with MLSE, Major League Sports and Entertainment, group...talking about the opportunity for MLS to expand into Canada, specifically into Toronto...We are close to finalizing a deal for [the] 2007 [MLS season]," announced MLS Commissioner Don Garber.

"We think MLS in Canada would be very good for the Canadian soccer association...In 1995 the United States national team was ranked 35th in the world, Today we are ranked 7th. We believe part of that achievement is directly related to the fact that a good number if not most of those players come from Major League Soccer," touted Garber.

"Canada currently is ranked 84th in the world, and we are absolutely convinced that having a MLS team...and an ongoing league...can help Canadian soccer."

The commish also announced plans to add another franchise within the contiguous states. Houston, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Milwaukee, and St. Louis are the leading U.S. candidates to land a MLS team in 2007. Only one will be selected.

The cost for the MLSE investor group to get a MLS franchise will be over $10 million initially, and in addition this group will need to have a deal in place for a new stadium.

[Joe MacCarthy]

"We have been working with MLSE, Major League Sports and Entertainment, group...talking about the opportunity for MLS to expand into Canada, specifically into Toronto...We are close to finalizing a deal for [the] 2007 [MLS season]," announced MLS Commissioner Don Garber.I think Garber meant to say MLSE, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment (owners of the Leafs and Raptors)

[Ese_Guy]

lol

[Brantford_Tim]

Finally pro soccer to return to Toronto after a long absence.....yes,yes :D

[Joe MacCarthy]

Pro soccer has been in Toronto a long time as you well know, just not a very competitive organization as compared to the well run Whitecaps and Impact.

[Brantford_Tim]

Pro soccer has been in Toronto a long time as you well know, just not a very competitive organization as compared to the well run Whitecaps and Impact.

The Lynx have neither been professional on or off the field. no disrepect to the players here they are not to be blamed .but the Hartrells have never
gone out of thier way to make the team competitive in the USL which in turn
get fans away never to return. Their over inflated attendance figures also
proved to be very misleading when people who actually went to the Lynx
ggames never saw anything close to what the Lynx announced. This is why
im looking forward to MLs coming to toronto and being run by a first class sports operation MLSE...(no im not a Leafs fan by the way)

[Joe MacCarthy]

The Lynx have neither been professional on or off the field. no disrepect to the players here they are not to be blamed .but the Hartrells have never
gone out of thier way to make the team competitive in the USL which in turn
get fans away never to return. Their over inflated attendance figures also
proved to be very misleading when people who actually went to the Lynx
ggames never saw anything close to what the Lynx announced. This is why
im looking forward to MLs coming to toronto and being run by a first class sports operation MLSE...(no im not a Leafs fan by the way)Give credit to the Hartrells for keeping pro soccer alive in Toronto with at least some profile. About inflated figures I don't know, you don't see much of that anymore, you usually can't get away with that for long.

Even in Canada pro soccer is not a mom and pop operation, that is their failing. They just don't have the resources to compete. I don't know if people realize the kind of dough behind Joey Saputo (even though his team is non profit) and Greg Kerfoot. The Hartrells (pardon the expression) aren't in the same league.

Give the Hartrells credit for trying (foolhardy as it may be) and they did try to grow the game targetting kids. MLSE may benefit from that.

They were kind of like kamikazes. You thought what they were doing was crazy and not going to work but you kind of had to admire them for trying.

[Brantford_Tim]

Give credit to the Hartrells for keeping pro soccer alive in Toronto with at least some profile. About inflated figures I don't know, you don't see much of that anymore, you usually can't get away with that for long.

Even in Canada pro soccer is not a mom and pop operation, that is their failing. They just don't have the resources to compete. I don't know if people realize the kind of dough behind Joey Saputo (even though his team is non profit) and Greg Kerfoot. The Hartrells (pardon the expression) aren't in the same league.

Give the Hartrells credit for trying (foolhardy as it may be) and they did try to grow the game targetting kids. MLSE may benefit from that.

They were kind of like kamikazes. You thought what they were doing was crazy and not going to work but you kind of had to admire them for trying.




They lost me as a supporter when they left Varsity for the stadium is Missisauga, ok i know that wasn't their falut but that of the U of T,
funny how their name keeps popping up with bad news for soccer in toronto anymore. yes they did target kids, but letting them run riot in the stand while
we supporters were trying to watch the match was downright stupid. the security did dick all, all complaints to the Lynx via eamil about this went unanswered such much for being professional. Bruno can't admit that MLS is needed inToronto cause soccer fans in Toronto just won't accept the USL brand of soccer. it is after all division 2 in North america and the fans in Toronto want the best possible soccer available that being MLS>.

[Joe MacCarthy]

MLS closing in on Toronto expansion
Board of Governors outlines more specifics for potential Canadian team
By Jason Halpin / MLSnet.com Staff

http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_events_news.jsp?ymd=20051112&content_id=48155&vkey=mlscup2005&fext=.jsp

FRISCO, Texas -- The city of Toronto is a hair's breadth from being confirmed as Major League Soccer's 13th team, but none of the league's big-ticket items were finalized at Saturday's Board of Governors meeting.

Larry Tannenbaum, the chairman of the board of Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, the group set to put an expansion team in Toronto, was introduced to the board Saturday. While MLS Commissioner Don Garber said he can't yet announce a final agreement, he was very optimistic that the remaining details will be ironed out in short order.

"[The board] formally approved their application for expansion," Garber said. "There's still some things left that they need to do in Toronto on the stadium front before ... we can announce a deal.

"They're really an impressive group," he added. "... (They) are going to be terrific partners."

Garber and deputy commissioner Ivan Gazidis also said that the league's domestic player rules will be different for the Toronto team. Canadian players will count as domestic, while all others, including U.S. citizens, will count as international players. Toronto will be allowed to have three additional senior internationals -- seven, as opposed to four -- as long as those additional three are from the United States. The Canadian team will also have five youth international spots, rather than three, in its inaugural season (just as Chivas USA and Real Salt Lake this year).

On another expansion note, Garber said the expansion fee for the league's 14th team will be $15 million until Dec. 31, 2005, at which point it will increase "significantly" to an as-yet undetermined amount.

Jason Halpin is a contributor to MLSnet.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Soccer or its clubs.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Can they bend it like Beckham?
Soccer boosters say Maple Leaf Sports can make a pro team work in the city. But some wonder whether fans will unite behind a local franchise

By PETER MALLETT
Saturday, November 12, 2005 Page M5

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051112/SOCCER12/TPEntertainment/

On a blustery Sunday afternoon on College Street, the fans at the Cervejaria Downtown soccer pub are living vicariously through their football heroes. Their eyes glued to a large-screen TV broadcasting the SuperLiga -- Portugal's first-division league -- via satellite, the mood shifts dramatically with each pass, foul and shot on goal. As Rio Ave scores first on the crowd favourite, Benfica Lisbon, an anxious hush falls over the bar.

"Soccer at this level is enthralling," explains Cervejaria owner and lifelong soccer fan Lou Alves. "It is more than a game for us -- it is a way of life."

It is enclaves such as this in Little Portugal, Little Italy and other neighbourhoods across Toronto that have turned each World Cup into a citywide block party. Thousands of Greek fans poured onto the Danforth when the Greek national team won the European Cup last summer.

And, with the recent approval of a new $72-million, 22,000-seat soccer stadium to be built at Exhibition Place, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment hopes that this fervent fan base will support Canada's first Major League Soccer team. This week, the top soccer league in the United States is expected to award the owners of the Maple Leafs and the Raptors with a Toronto franchise that would begin playing in 2007.

"The way the Italians and Portuguese love their hockey in Toronto -- these people love and adore soccer even more," says Alex Franco, who hosts regular soccer broadcasts on the multicultural radio station CIRV-FM.

Scarborough-born Dwayne DeRosario, the star midfielder for the MLS's San Jose Earthquakes, not only thinks that a Toronto MLS team will succeed, but believes it will be a boon for Canada's national team, which hasn't qualified for the World Cup tournament since 1986. "I am sure that if we get a facility built and an MLS team, we are going to make the next World Cup," he says.

But the history of professional soccer in Toronto is littered with the graves of teams -- from the Toronto City of the sixties and the Toronto Metros of the seventies to the Toronto Blizzard of the eighties -- that have failed to cash in on the city's enthusiasm for the sport.

In 1961, Eastern Canada Professional Soccer League president Harold Ballard told The Globe and Mail that he felt that "over the next five years, soccer will become the major summer sport in Canada." After a brief heyday, the ECPSL folded in 1966.

Steve Stavro was the owner of the ECPSL's flagship team, Toronto City, which imported such English legends as Sir Stanley Matthews, Tommy Younger and Johnny Haynes. The team averaged just under 7,000 fans a game during its four years in the league. Mr. Stavro remembers it as a golden age for professional soccer in the city, and he remains a believer.

"[Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment] won't make money overnight, but there is interest in the game," he says. "There are a lot of young people from many different countries in the city today, and they all have an appreciation for the game. If it is priced right, marketed properly -- with all the fans in Toronto, I think a team deserves another shot."

Clive Toye has heard all of the arguments about pro soccer in Toronto before. Now an adviser to FIFA, soccer's governing body, Mr. Toye rescued the North American Soccer League from total collapse in 1969, signed the legendary Pelé to a then-record $7-million contract with the New York Cosmos in 1975 and kept the Toronto Blizzard afloat as its club president from 1979 to 1984.

He thinks an MLS team can succeed in Toronto, but he says its owners will have their work cut out for them. "They will need to be everywhere -- every youth tournament, awards dinner, prize giving and social club, Cup final and season opener -- and be as much a part of the Ontario soccer scene as it is possible to be. And having done all that, do it again."

Dale Barnes is more skeptical. As the first commissioner of the Canadian Soccer League in 1987, he remembers putting up his own money to keep the ill-fated league afloat in its early days. The league was so desperate for a television deal that it signed a lifetime contract with TSN before collapsing with debt in 1992. Like other fans of the game, Mr. Barnes is frustrated with pro soccer's miserable past in Toronto. "They are going to have to run it like a pro outfit," he says. In particular, he's not convinced that fans from the various soccer-mad neighbourhoods will come out unless they see their communities represented on the field.

Toronto's current professional team, the Toronto Lynx of the United Soccer Leagues, hasn't been able to capitalize on the city's soccer fever. Owner Bruno Hartrell estimates he has lost more than $5-million since he took over full ownership of the team in 2000. Hoping to secure a lease at the new stadium, his team has played largely unnoticed by soccer fans and media at the 3,000-seat Centennial Stadium in Etobicoke, averaging around 2,000 spectators a game.

But during halftime of the SuperLiga game at Cervejaria Downtown, the Benfica fans -- and prospective Toronto Major League Soccer fans -- say they'll be swayed by only one thing: whether the team is any good.

"One thing is for sure: [MLS] is not a top international league," Gabe Real says. "It is second division and you can't really compare it to top-flight soccer in Spain, Brazil or England."

But given the success of the U.S. World Cup team (which draws many of its stars from the MLS) and the many notable players who have come from MLS teams, fellow soccer fan Albino Silva says he'll have a look.

"If there is a quality team and a well-presented product, I will go and buy tickets," Mr. Silva says. Then he quickly glances back at the TV to make sure the second half hasn't begun.

[martin_petrov17]

MLS soccer is not so quality...but it seems to be improving. Once in a while you see good veterans coming here (stoichkov, and that colombian guy) so I'd hope for something like that. Other than that, knowing the price of tickets I wouldnt pay that to go to those games :)

[Joe MacCarthy]

Unlike the quality Bulgarian league which I would pay BIG bucks to watch :)

[Becks]

Great news for Toronto.

Any word on the MLS expansion there?

[Joe MacCarthy]

http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showthread.php?t=31750

[Becks]

This is off topic, but I figured you would know better than most... Is Houston 1836 changing their name?

[Joe MacCarthy]

This is off topic, but I figured you would know better than most... Is Houston 1836 changing their name?Not sure how familiar you are with the MLS scene but the San Jose Earthquakes recently moved to Houston had no team name for a bit and then became the Houston 1836.

If you look at the Canadians abroad list you'll see Dwayne DeRosario and Pat Onstad are now with Houston having moved with the former Earthquakes.

http://houston.mlsnet.com/MLS/hou/about/
About Houston 1836

Relocation: AEG and Major League Soccer announced on December 16, 2005, that the AEG-operated San Jose Earthquakes MLS franchise will relocate to Houston, Texas, and represent the city of Houston when the 2006 MLS season gets underway on April 1, 2006.

Stadium: Houston 1836 will play its MLS home matches at Robertson Stadium, located on the campus of the University of Houston.

The Team: The team will retain the 28-man roster of players from the San Jose Earthquakes, and added additional players during the MLS SuperDraft held on January 20, 2006, in Philadelphia.

The 28-man roster includes MLS standouts:
Dwayne De Rosario
Wade Barrett
Pat Onstad
Alejandro Moreno

Team Name: The team name, logo and colors were announced on Wednesday, January 25. Prior to the announcement, fans were given the opportunity to vote for the team name.

[penalty_20]

This will be great hopefully they have a good youth system :)

[Becks]

But I have read that due to overwhelming backlash they received from Hispanics for 1836, they will be changing the name.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Not meaning to demean your post but that was news to me as I don't really care what they call themselves, this being a Toronto MLS thread.

Looks like the PC (politically correct) idiot crowd wins again and the silent majority crumbles. Funny with Pat and DeRo playing for them your headsup was the first I heard of it. This article explains it pretty well.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3671433.html

Back to our regularly scheduled thread. :)

[bdkexcell]

so with this expansion almost as good as happening (unless its on forsure and i dont know yet) how is the roster going to be decided?
i dont know much about the MSL league, im guessing the team will sign free-agents in the league, and host some tryouts?

[R7-Ronaldo-R7]

Yes

[SweetOwnGoal]

so with this expansion almost as good as happening (unless its on forsure and i dont know yet) how is the roster going to be decided?
i dont know much about the MSL league, im guessing the team will sign free-agents in the league, and host some tryouts?

If you aren't already aware of BigSoccer, you should check it out. It is likely the best source of information on MLS out there. There is a forum dedicated to Toronto MLS:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=1045

Basically, the MLS runs much like a typical North American professional sports league--entry drafts, salary caps and limited free agency. The biggest difference is the domestic/international distinction, but if you are familiar with the CFL import rules you will have an idea of how that will work.

Toronto's situation is a bit different with Canadians counting as "domestic" players and the rest of the world, including Americans, counting as "internationals." Toronto will be allowed to have three extra internationals (seven as opposed to four), so long as the extra players are Americans.

There are conflicting opinions on how strong the Canadians on Toronto MLS will be--some people believe Toronto will have a great advantage and will be able to scoop up all but the very best Canadians, thus giving the team a great advantage over its league rivals who have to share the--albeit much bigger--American talent pool. Others think Toronto MLS will be filled out with only the very young and very old. All others, it is thought, will go to Europe where they will make more money.

The truth, as always, is likely in the middle.

Edit: Tks for the post but for next time we usually don't approve of links to one of our competitors. :) This coming from a long standing and still lurking BS Canadian forum poster. The people at Vs might protest the part about best MLS Toronto info site.
http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showpost.php?p=523924&postcount=29

[SweetOwnGoal]

Edit: Tks for the post but for next time we usually don't approve of links to one of our competitors. :) This coming from a long standing and still lurking BS Canadian forum poster. The people at Vs might protest the part about best MLS Toronto info site.
http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showpost.php?p=523924&postcount=29

Fair enough. Your house, your rules. I can respect that.

Although I would, again respectfully, suggest that cross posting helps both boards. And I say that from the perspective of someone who administers one bulletin board and moderates another.

Last word...I wasn't claiming that BS had the best information about MLS Toronto specifically, but rather that it was the best place to consistently get MLS information in general. I don't think the Vs would have a problem with that as it isn't their mandate to cover the MLS.

As for Toronto MLS. In case it hasn't already been made clear, it's more or less a done deal. Whether that's a good thing for Canadian soccer is the debate. I don't think there is much doubt it’s good for Toronto . Perhaps this board can be the place where that debate happens in a civil manner?

[Joe MacCarthy]

As a former mod of that forum I agree with what you say but not long ago this board had little traffic, few posts and mostly trolls for posters. It had to be torn down and built up again. So you can understand the dilemna that we don't want to direct what few we have somewhere else.

I was thinking about deleting the url but what you say is true, it is a better source for MLS info than here although the player eligibility regs were already posted here.

As for MLS being good for Toronto that debate was already held at the BS Canadian soccer forum and I would gladly direct SFN members to that thread rather than have that divisive debate again here :)

Welcome to the board!

[SweetOwnGoal]

And on that note, I’ll start the discussion.

First off, my bias… I’m pro-MLS, but then again I’m writing this from St. Catharines and I’ve lived in the GTA for much of my adult life (although I have lived in the Maritimes and in western Canada as well, so I do have an idea of what it is like in those regions to feel overshadowed by big, bad T.O.)

But, for the sake of debate, I’ll present, to the best of my ability, a synopsis of the anti-MLS position.

Basically, there is a feeling that a single Division 1 team will do little to develop Canadian talent and could actually reduce opportunities for young Canucks. It’s felt that Toronto MLS would weaken the Canadian USL teams—both in terms of prominence and on-the-field strength.

From a prominence perspective, it’s thought that what little media attention the USL teams currently get will wash away with all the domestic soccer ink going to the “big club.” That would make it difficult for the Impact, Lynx and Whitecaps to get on TV, to get sponsors and to generally draw attention and fans to their cause).

On-the-field, anti-MLSers believe that Toronto MLS will be unable to lure top Canadian talent back from Europe and as such will raid the rosters of Canadian USL teams to fill out the roster. That, of course, would make the USL teams much weaker and thus a less desirable product in all aspects. Making matters worse, in the eyes of an anti-MLSer, is that those Canadian players will not be placed in important roles for Toronto MLS, but rather they would take a backseat to the internationals brought in by MLSE. Indeed, MLSE is on record saying that it plans to utilize all seven international spots available to it.

Then there is the anti-Leaf crowd. These folks aren’t opposed to the idea of a single MLS team in Canada, but think that it is a bad idea to trust this team to people who sign Tie Domi to million dollar contracts. And who own the Raptors. The anti-Leaf crowd thinks that, at best, MLSE is inept. At worst, it’s only in this whole soccer thing to get a stadium built. Winning, or developing Canadian soccer in any way, is not a concern.

The last group of antis, and least sophisticated, is the TORONTO SUCKS AND IT THINKS IT IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE REST OF US BUT IT ISN’T SASKATOON IS JUST AS GOOD YOU KNOW IT IS crowd. You really can’t debate with this group.

[ulster21]

-will this team be able to give the same size salaries that their U.S. counterparts give to their players??
-are they going to have a required minimum # of canadian players on the roster(like they do in the CFL)?

[SweetOwnGoal]

-will this team be able to give the same size salaries that their U.S. counterparts give to their players??
-are they going to have a required minimum # of canadian players on the roster(like they do in the CFL)?

MLS operates under a salary cap, so no one team can simply spend it's way to a championship. Toronto MLS will work with the same amount of money as every other team.

In terms of ability to spend--The Toronto Maple Leafs--financially speaking only--are the Manchester United of the NHL (on the field the Leafs are...lets say the Spurs of the NHL--although that could be generous). MLSE has money to burn.

The Canadian dollar is the only question mark, but it trades at about 85-90 cents US right now, so it is reasonable.

Toronto MLS’s roster must be entirely Canadian, save seven players.

[Joe MacCarthy]

And on that note, I’ll start the discussion.

First off, my bias… I’m pro-MLS, but then again I’m writing this from St. Catharines and I’ve lived in the GTA for much of my adult life (although I have lived in the Maritimes and in western Canada as well, so I do have an idea of what it is like in those regions to feel overshadowed by big, bad T.O.)Just a small exception, I'm an easterner, a true easterner not Ontario or Quebec...but the Maritimes. We don't feel overshadowed by Toronto. We hardly think of it at all aside from the crime stories we see on the news, with it's cosmopolitan demographic and attitudes it's more like a foreign country.

As we looked on Toronto in awe from the 50s to the 70s that focus for us has shifted to Alberta as the promised land. Toronto truly has little profile here. We're not "Goin Down the Road" to Toronto anymore it's Calgary and Fort MacMurray.

Personally I don't have a problem with MLS at all. Some are naive enough to think it will be Canada's team, I don't see that but look forward to the day when all three big cities will be in the MLS.

I can't really put my thoughts together properly on this but I just don't think it will be the boon for Canadian soccer NASL was. I hope I'm wrong and Canadian players are not treated as second class citizens on their own country's teams as CFL player USED to be.

[SweetOwnGoal]

I can't really put my thoughts together properly on this but I just don't think it will be the boon for Canadian soccer NASL was. I hope I'm wrong and Canadian players are not treated as second class citizens on their own country's teams as CFL player USED to be.

The old adage in the CFL is "the team with the best Canadians wins."

If MLSE does its work in Canadian scouting, I think the same thing could hold true for Toronto MLS. There is an advantage there to be had. I'm not sure MLSE will take it though, likely spending its money and resources on finding some big, old name from the old country instead in a misguided effort to lure the College St. crowd.

As with you, I hope I'm wrong. I just know how MLSE thinks.

[Joe MacCarthy]

From what I've been reading in the Canadian forums I get the impression they don't want to go the "olde country" route. They have already made contact with the hard core "Canadian" supporters and have recorded their impressions.

With the diversity of the Smoke I think signing "olde country" players could actually be divisive. In the olden days (70s) it seemed the Italian or Balkan player would fit in well or the 60s for players from the UK (Toronto City). I don't think that is true anymore.

Maybe look for mid level Portuguese or Caribbean players.

Also signed foreign players are not going to sit on the bench. How that will work for Canadian's playing time, only time will tell.

The old adage in the CFL is "the team with the best Canadians wins."I said that to my brother (from Edmonton) at the beginning of last year telling him the Lions would win it all. I guess we were wrong. :)