Whats the major problem with Canadian soccer?

[BigRedMapleLeaf]

Take your pick there's a lot to choose from>>>>>>

[boris4c]

Take your pick there's a lot to choose from>>>>>>

Why the hell would being in the CONCACAF be a major problem?? The only zone weaker than the CONCACAF is the Oceania zone. But still the CONCACAF isn't that bad, it's not because Canada plays in the CONCACAF that they can't have a decent team to compete, Canada plays the same role as San Marino, Andorra, Malta or Liechtenstein in Europe, sure points for the other teams, as I already said in another thread. Look at Mexico, the US, Costa Rica, they are very good teams and the play in the CONCACAF. Playing in this zone should be an advantage for Canada with their 32 million people, but no, we get our ass kicked all the way to the bottom of the standings. Why can't a country with 32 millions habitants produce a good team, same thing with China, they have 1.4 billion people and they get smoked and can't even qualify for 2006 (but they did in 2002 where their ass was kicked very hard). On the other hand, Croatia, a small 4 million habitants country qualified for the WC 98, WC 02, EURO 04, and will 90% qualify for WC 06. We can't even beat Honduras!! The problem certainly isn't the CONCACAF.

[Guma]

I agree CONCACAF certainly isnt the problem, Canadian soccer at the intl level is currently a disaster. Canada seriously needs a domestic pro league.

[Milos_]

we have a domestic leauge

[Guma]

My mistake, if u call the A league or whatever its called a bonafide pro league then your right. :dontcare:

[mrdeeds]

Canada has many problems, but the bottom line is Canada is just not a soccer nation at this time, it is a nation of NHL and CFL, NBA, MLB and even curling. Our best athletes play those sports.

Soccer on the men's side anyway, only seems to divide the nation, not unite it. The different ethnic communities support their former nations more than their present country when it comes to soccer. That is something I find disturbing. :mad2:

[boris4c]

Canada has many problems, but the bottom line is Canada is just not a soccer nation at this time, it is a nation of NHL and CFL, NBA, MLB and even curling. Our best athletes play those sports.

Soccer on the men's side anyway, only seems to divide the nation, not unite it. The different ethnic communities support their former nations more than their present country when it comes to soccer. That is something I find disturbing. :mad2:

That is absolutely normal to support your former country, it's your real country while Canada is just the country to live in, you don't really have a connection with Canada. But, I would really like to see Canada play in a WC and I'll support them also but not as much as my Serbia & Montenegro.

[Milos_]

i support canada but that doesnt mean i cant support serbia

[BigRedMapleLeaf]

The major source of Canadian soccer problems can be found at
Voyageurs.com.....if you have the time check them out then you
will see whats really wrong with canadian soccer.

[Toke-E-Yo]

we have a domestic leauge

How about a domestic league that people actually care about...lets takea vote,

WHO GIvES HALF A RATS ASS ABOUT THE A-LEAGUE?

My vote goes towards no...




Canada has many problems, but the bottom line is Canada is just not a soccer nation at this time, it is a nation of NHL and CFL, NBA, MLB and even curling. Our best athletes play those sports.

Soccer on the men's side anyway, only seems to divide the nation, not unite it. The different ethnic communities support their former nations more than their present country when it comes to soccer. That is something I find disturbing

How about the USA, which has time to kill Canada in all those (except the NHL, but US teams are doing better than Canadian teams lately...) and they still have time to manage to fit in a up-and-coming league that produces some very good players, and do well at a international level. Canada`s NHL and MLB teams are full of Foreign Players, as well is the CFL...my Awnsr to this... Football (soccer) can be played any were in the world, but hocky cant...Focus on football.....FOCUUUUUUUSSSSSSSS

[mode_m]

How about the USA, which has time to kill Canada in all those (except the NHL, but US teams are doing better than Canadian teams lately...) and they still have time to manage to fit in a up-and-coming league that produces some very good players, and do well at a international level. Canada`s NHL and MLB teams are full of Foreign Players, as well is the CFL...my Awnsr to this... Football (soccer) can be played any were in the world, but hocky cant...Focus on football.....FOCUUUUUUUSSSSSSSS[/QUOTE]


Isn't it obvious that a) the US has more people in their country to choose from for their teams b) they invest more money into their sports than Canada?

If these points are not already moot than they should be. Two words...Health Care.

[BigRedMapleLeaf]

Toronto has a so called professional franchise in name only, the LYNX have
no idea how to eun a football club. The lose on a regular basis, only once
or twice making the playoffs in such a week league. They even over announce
their attendance figures to the point where no one believes them anymore.
Canada needs proper pro teams, not comedy ones.

[Chivu]

Why the hell would being in the CONCACAF be a major problem?? The only zone weaker than the CONCACAF is the Oceania zone.

I think listing that as one of the problems is fair enough. Think about it: If we played in Europe the quality we're playing against would be so much better that we would learn from it, and improve. Mexico have been long suffering from this problem; they just don't get enough games against top nations to stay competitive..

[Ralfonso2789]

Futebol exists in Canada?...What a surprise. What do your uniforms look like? Do you guys envy the Brazilian 5 estrellas?

[boris4c]

Futebol exists in Canada?...What a surprise. What do your uniforms look like? Do you guys envy the Brazilian 5 estrellas?
The uniforms really look bad if you ask me but this is just me talking. You can have a look at www.soccerfansnetwork.com

[Ralfonso2789]

The uniforms really look bad if you ask me but this is just me talking. You can have a look at

your right...they do suck.

[Murdoch]

I love SFN

[Lance Knight]

it seems Canada is a pretty laid back country, and so they cant play something that hard, plus weed legalised so they would mostly be high, lol

[Joe MacCarthy]

it seems Canada is a pretty laid back country, and so they cant play something that hard, plus weed legalised so they would mostly be high, lolWeed isn't legal and there are a few Canadians who aren't real happy with potheads after a guy running a grow-op killed four Mounties. Judging by the spelling in your sig you might want to ease up on the mj.

[Toke-E-Yo]

Weed isn't legal and there are a few Canadians who aren't real happy with potheads after a guy running a grow-op killed four Mounties. Judging by the spelling in your sig you might want to ease up on the mj.

lol a few ppl, that is true....I dont know about the rest of Canada but I m prteey sure at least 80% of BC smokes pot...face it, Canada is a stoner nation, just like the netherlands

[El Kapitan]

The major problem with Canadian soccer is... NOBODY CARES ABOUT IT!!!

When Canadians start to take soccer more seriously, they would start to demand better results, then sports authorities in the government and sponsors would get interested in developing a better infraestructure, maybe with a pro-league of their own, they can try to develop with the US a similar dynamic that the one Wales and England have.

Wales has a local league and also teams in lower divisions of the English FA, like Cardiff City a team that plays the Championship, the inmediate lower division of the Premiership with much of their players being Walish.

Canada already has teams in the USL, the next step is develop a strong fanbase, encourage children to play the game, then create a pro league of their own, even if they only have 8 or 10 teams, at the same time they should try to get an MLS franchise to have a base of good canadian players playing at a competitive level.

[Toke-E-Yo]

The major problem with Canadian soccer is... NOBODY CARES ABOUT IT!!!

When Canadians start to take soccer more seriously, they would start to demand better results, then sports authorities in the government and sponsors would get interested in developing a better infraestructure, maybe with a pro-league of their own, they can try to develop with the US a similar dynamic that the one Wales and England have.

Wales has a local league and also teams in lower divisions of the English FA, like Cardiff City a team that plays the Championship, the inmediate lower division of the Premiership with much of their players being Walish.

Canada already has teams in the USL, the next step is develop a strong fanbase, encourage children to play the game, then create a pro league of their own, even if they only have 8 or 10 teams, at the same time they should try to get an MLS franchise to have a base of good canadian players playing at a competitive level.



Iagree

[RaulMadrid7]

L M F A O

You are totally right, most Canadians aren't passionate or serious about soccer. I went to train with one of Toronto's best under 16 youth clubs last year and 90 percent of the time during playing they were making jokes and talking about how to get laid every day or somethin. It looked to me like thay were sleeping because they did horrible and luckily for me I got to show off to the coach.

And to think they were one of the best...phhhh...

[Kezman9]

i think its lack of a pro league, if we had a team in the mls it would create more interest in soccer. lets face it we dont have the same soccer resourses in canada as most other countries, we dont have the souting, or the support.
the fact that canada is a second generation country, we wont have support for our national team, cuz evryone else roots for their home country, (im to balme too). but over all there needs to be changes.

[ajaxceltic7]

Maybe If We Put Out A Decent Team Ther Would Be Support, Most Of Canada Is Anglo-saxon And They Would Probably Support Canada And Soccer

[Bosanac]

canada is not so bad in soccer, but i still dont see them near nowhere of anything. give it time, every country will be a soccer nation, i mean look at usa now

[Maccabi 4ever]

why cant canadian soccer be good for a country this large we should dominate why have u forsaken me

[Milos_]

Most Of Canada Is Anglo-saxon And They Would Probably Support Canada And Soccer
i dont know were you live but in southern ontarion thats not true :lol: canada suks now and i support them, im sure if they were better most of the nation would be behind them

[toronto_soccer]

hey yo let me speak on this, all we need is an mls team in toronto and that will turn people on to soccer. then maybe in 20 years canada will be in the WC competition.

[Kezman9]

i wouldnt mind seeing canada beat the usa some time,

[CanadianToon]

I have been away from Ontario for quite a bit now, but i just dont remember too many people who saught the game out. Bit weird, though, Hockey and football have a lot in common, wudnt you think football wud have more support. Also, i wish Canada was more exposed to the premiership or other well supported leagues from Europe. I know, its not Canadian, but its something that i think Canadians wud enjoy a bit more than MLS--plus it might encourage people to start watching football a bit more. Footy isnt as big in the states as some of you lot think anyways, people still like the NFL, MLB, and NBA a lot more than football. They're some places where there is a bit of support but people still look at it as being rubbish. Football should be more welcomed in Canada than America. For one, Canada has many European immigrants, and two, hockey is the only big time sport in Canada. Do people in Canada really watch anything other than Hockey?

[Joe MacCarthy]

I have been away from Ontario for quite a bit now, but i just dont remember too many people who saught the game out. Bit weird, though, Hockey and football have a lot in common, wudnt you think football wud have more support. Also, i wish Canada was more exposed to the premiership or other well supported leagues from Europe. I know, its not Canadian, but its something that i think Canadians wud enjoy a bit more than MLS--plus it might encourage people to start watching football a bit more. Footy isnt as big in the states as some of you lot think anyways, people still like the NFL, MLB, and NBA a lot more than football. They're some places where there is a bit of support but people still look at it as being rubbish. Football should be more welcomed in Canada than America. For one, Canada has many European immigrants, and two, hockey is the only big time sport in Canada. Do people in Canada really watch anything other than Hockey?It seems you've been away too long. :) Soccer is the number one sport in terms of registration in Canada, over 800,000 players, about 300,000 more than hockey.

Soccer is readily available on TV. With my regular satellite subscription I am able to access almost every European league: England (RSN), France (TV5), Spain (TLN), Italy (TLN), Germany (FSWC) and Champion's League on TSN.

While soccer does not have the same viewership numbers as hockey, football, baseball and basketball it can occasionally draw well. One of the largest sports audiences Rogers Sportsnet ever had was for the Women's World U19 tournament where Canada finished second.

There is a definite lack of knowledge on the Canadian soccer scene (especially on this board). People who couldn't name two members of our national team or have ever viewed a game will come on here and say Canada sux. This forum should be for discussing the Canadian soccer scene not Canadians discussing foreign soccer.

Last week we played a friendly with Spain in Santander in prep for their WCQ. They had all their big guns and we were missing our top defender (Stalteri from Tottenham) and played our third string goalie. We played a 3-4-3 (no bunker) and made an excellent showing narrowly losing 2-1.

Check out the Canadians Abroad List and see the progress. As JDG of Deportivo said... something special is going to happen with Canada in the next few years.

Ironic that there is a thread here that asks people where they are from and what team they support. I am from Canada and I support CANADA

[CanadianToon]

[QUOTE=Joe MacCarthy]It seems you've been away too long. :) Soccer is the number one sport in terms of registration in Canada, over 800,000 players, about 300,000 more than hockey.

Soccer is readily available on TV. With my regular satellite subscription I am able to access almost every European league: England (RSN), France (TV5), Spain (TLN), Italy (TLN), Germany (FSWC) and Champion's League on TSN.

While soccer does not have the same viewership numbers as hockey, football, baseball and basketball it can occasionally draw well. One of the largest sports audiences Rogers Sportsnet ever had was for the Women's World U19 tournament where Canada finished second.

There is a definite lack of knowledge on the Canadian soccer scene (especially on this board). People who couldn't name two members of our national team or have ever viewed a game will come on here and say Canada sux. This forum should be for discussing the Canadian soccer scene not Canadians discussing foreign soccer.

Last week we played a friendly with Spain in Santander in prep for their WCQ. They had all their big guns and we were missing our top defender (Stalteri from Tottenham) and played our third string goalie. We played a 3-4-3 (no bunker) and made an excellent showing narrowly losing 2-1.

Check out the Canadians Abroad List and see the progress. As JDG of Deportivo said... something special is going to happen with Canada in the next few years.

Ironic that there is a thread here that asks people where they are from and what team they support. I am from Canada and I support CANADA

I support Canada, always have, its my home. I have seen the abroad list and did not say Canada has no talent, but we need to support more than we have been. Supporting other teams from leagues is something else--i grew up watching NewCastle--that has nothing to do with my support for Canada. I hope something special happens to Canada and all of bloody North America in the football world.

[Ese_Guy]

I don't know but it really doesn't seem like a good idea for Canada to have a pro league yet. If all goes well for them, participating in the MLS might really drum up Canadian fan support.

[bushie]

why cant there be an organised pro-league in Canada? The locations are there - lets see, vancouver, victoria, edmonton, regina, calgary, winnipeg, toronto, montreal, ottawa, quebec city, halifax, and one more from anywhere, and youve got the makings of a soccer league! sure, you wont get big name players to start with, but it will grow. Dont join the MLS, that won't help your cause. Start your own!!

[Futbol87]

why cant there be an organised pro-league in Canada?

Because now that MLS' future looks more secure and 3 to 4 new stadiums in the works it's easier to piggyback off of our league than try to develop their own. I don't like the idea of our league developing other countries national sides and it will mean 22 less spots for up and coming American players and one more American city that won't be able to get a team in the future. They're a G8 country they could start their own league if they wanted. It just wouldn't be seen as major league if they weren't playing New York or LA. Plus I like it that all 3 north american countries don't dominate CONCACAF it gives the central american and caribbean teams something to play for.

[bushie]

Because now that MLS' future looks more secure and 3 to 4 new stadiums in the works it's easier to piggyback off of our league than try to develop their own. I don't like the idea of our league developing other countries national sides and it will mean 22 less spots for up and coming American players and one more American city that won't be able to get a team in the future. They're a G8 country they could start their own league if they wanted. It just wouldn't be seen as major league if they weren't playing New York or LA. Plus I like it that all 3 north american countries don't dominate CONCACAF it gives the central american and caribbean teams something to play for.

I totally agree!! Here in Australia we only have eight teams in the new professional A-League, one of which is a New Zealand side. Why should we develop them, and also, we're moving to the Asian confederation next year, while New Zealand will stay in Oceania. I can't see the logistics of it.

[bleedblack&blue]

The major problem is, not only is Canada not a soccer nation but a hockey nation, it's what most people live for. The winter season is thrived upon and it is rediculously cold in CDA so where are we going to develop players, we are going to need foriegn players to win. It's a sad situation. And now that hockey is back, there is less soccer to watch and poker is the only other thing on TSN. POKER! for pete sakes. If i were in charge (and i know im not) I'd advise against an MLS - esque league. Canada, for its better interest should play thier good players abroad until there is a chance for WC compitition but Hockey is Canada's game and it should stay that way. I hate the MLS anyway. States trying to dominate everything... :sleepy:

[Joe MacCarthy]

The major problem is, not only is Canada not a soccer nation but a hockey nation, it's what most people live for. The winter season is thrived upon and it is rediculously cold in CDA so where are we going to develop players, we are going to need foriegn players to win. It's a sad situation. And now that hockey is back, there is less soccer to watch and poker is the only other thing on TSN. POKER! for pete sakes. If i were in charge (and i know im not) I'd advise against an MLS - esque league. Canada, for its better interest should play thier good players abroad until there is a chance for WC compitition but Hockey is Canada's game and it should stay that way. I hate the MLS anyway. States trying to dominate everything... :sleepy:It's not relevant whether Canada is a "soccer nation" or not. Fact is Canada has more registered players in soccer than hockey by a large margin. The US is not a soccer nation and they are top ten in the world.

Weather is a non factor because any new league would be a summer league like MLS. Aside from that Russia and parts of Scandinavia play a winter schedule. Soccer is played year round in BC.

There is tons of soccer on TV on RSN, TSN, TV5, TLN, FSWC.

While I'd love to see a new CSL there isn't the financial resolve for it at this time. What the CSA advocates is about the only prudent option we have. A pyramid structure with three MLS teams over several USL1 clubs.

We need players who are able to come together frequently to gel. That was evidenced by us losing to Guatemala who were able to play many friendlies and were familiar with one another.

We have been playing friendlies in Europe with our European players and now want to try and get a core of high caliber players playing in North America.

[Chel]

Its because all that people care about here in Canada is hockey.. most of everyone (or atleast alot of people around here) consider football to be a borring sport (which I just cant understand but meh).

[Joe MacCarthy]

I don't know why it is so important for some people for soccer to be the most popular sport. It's irrelevant. I've already posted it twice and here for a third time. In Canada, soccer participation is #1.

It doesn't have to have the highest profile for the program to be successful. We only hear about bobsleigh every four years at the Olympics and Canada has one of the best programs in the world.

There are a lot of people on this site who have auld country soccer hangups. Get over it. You're in Canada now. Try to help build the program instead of tearing it down.

This thread was started by a troll who was suspended from two message boards. Not a shining example of knowledge or integrity.

[majmun]

Low population, along with trying to play all sports. We dont have enough people to do so much.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Low population, along with trying to play all sports. We dont have enough people to do so much.Check out the comment new CSA technical director Richard Bate made about Norway. They're doing it. :)

[behdad]

qualify to the world cup and then talk about soccer

Edit: If you have something to add please do if you want to troll you will be deleted. http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/p/pwc/r/1986.html sorry didn`t see that one! :D

[Toke-E-Yo]

qualify to the world cup and then talk about soccer

Edit: If you have something to add please do if you want to troll you will be deleted. http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/p/pwc/r/1986.html

no offence, but once isnt good enough. Canada has the resources, the money and def the time to make a world class team, but chooses not to focussing on Rugby and Hockey to much.

[Joe MacCarthy]

no offence, but once isnt good enough. Canada has the resources, the money and def the time to make a world class team, but chooses not to focussing on Rugby and Hockey to much.No offense taken, if you want to discuss the Canadian soccer scene that's what this forum is for.

No one chooses to focus on one sport more than another, certainly the sport administrators don't. Each sport raises its own monies and is alotted government funding. I can look it up but I don't think soccer fares any worse in funding than any other sport at the same level of public consciousness. ie figure skating, swimming

Soccer has the highest registration numbers of any sport in the country, around 850,000. Thats about 300,000 more than hockey. To say they (government funding) focus on one sport more than the other is incorrect.

Do you mean football instead of rugby because the Canadian rugby scene is even less visible than soccer.

The fact that hockey is in the public's consciousness more than any other sport doesn't preclude us from being competitive in soccer. We have relatively few people doing bobsleigh and rowing but are a world power in both.

The CSA budget for funding everything soccer related in this country is only $9,000,000. Sven-Goran Eriksson makes almost half that.

Too many people equate the senior men's team with the whole worth of the program. Our U20s will play in three successive World Cup U20 tournaments. We qualified by beating Mexico, Honduras and Jamaica who are traditional senior powers in our region. Our women at senior and U19 have been world medalists. We are still growing in terms of development. Its probably only been within the last five years that development has been catching up with registration numbers.

In 1998 the best we could say was we had a guy (Paul Stalteri) playing for the Werder Bremen reserves and Jason DeVos playing for 3rd division Darlington. Things are changing quickly. Our senior men played a very equal competitive game against Spain (during their qualifiers). There were people calling for a 5-0 scoreline.

An American talk show host told me we have more Canadians playing in Europe than the Americans. I'm not sure how accurate that is but he might be right. Things are getting better, what isn't is the negativity of some "fans" who couldn't name one person on the national team and spout the usual Canada sux crap.

What we are beginning to see now is what I call critical mass. We used to be able to put 7 or 8 pretty competitive guys on the field but Lord help us if anyone couldn't show (injury). We have now blooded enough guys and have enough depth to be able to field a decent squad even with major players gone with injuries. We were mssing our best goalie and defender against Spain. There were a few other usual starters not there. That's the start of depth when you can play Spain with their big guns and us missing ours and not get killed.

I'm sorry if change doesn't come quickly enough for you but I've been a fan a long time and like the Red Sox I can wait. Not 90 years though :)

[Brantford_Tim]

Frank Yallop is the biggest problem with canadian soccer. He has turned a
half decent program started by Holger Osiek into a running joke among Canadian soccer fans. He should have never been hired as manager. He
has only been a success with the san Jose earthquakes of the MLS, hardly
worthy of being considered for the top job in Canadian soccer. The second
problem is the lack of a Canadian professional league which is unlikely to ever happen again. Cities like Edmonton and Calgary have done nothing to help
the sport in those cities (ownerships and lack of fans are both to blame).
Waiting for the MLS to arrive could well set the Canadian program even more,
and the delay in getting a stadium in Toronto (if it ever gets built, highly
doubtful at this point) has the canadian program going downhill faster then
our national team skiers.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Revisionism is not a good thing. Holger had a player mutiny with his form of discipline (the order to stay in the hotel rooms in Japan, was one of many) and this tranlated into a losing team.

You forget he hardly ever used substitutes and after the Gold Cup he was a bust as a coach. If you want to talk about his tenure as TD I would say that was more successful.

[TulioMaravilha]

I for one would like to see the MLS come here to Vancouver
You see, some 30 years ago (during the NY Cosmos era) I'm told that the big game in town was soccer; the Whitecaps ruled and Canucks, Lions were pitiful. Now, the 'caps are lucky to get 5000 people in the stands. Getting the WhiteCaps in the MLS seems like the best shot of having some half decent football around here and maybe then some talent will stay around.
As for why the national team sucks, I am at a loss to explain that. I came from Brazil and my bias is to consider Guatemala, Honduras, etc. as doormats, to be disposed of in the pitch quickly and by a large margin of goals. Given the number of kids playing the sport here (I'll bet 99% ot those 800K are minors), I kind of expected Canada to do better against their CONCACAF peers.
Maybe you are right and the critical mass may be present to allow us to move to another lever. We can only hope.

BTW, FIFA ranking is a joke and saying US is top 10 means zilch. Sorry, but Germany, Italy, England, etc. (all outside the top 10) can and will for a long time kick the crap out of Czech Republic (4) Mexico (5) USA (7) and Sweden (10).

[Joe MacCarthy]

The line about soccer being big and the other teams pitiful is not quite true. Yes, the Caps captivated the city (pardon the expression) back then but all sports teams have up and down cycles.

Not long after the Caps' success the Lions were drawing over 50,000 to BC Place. The Canucks have gone on to become a phenomenal success and the Lions are now doing well also. The NASL later went out of business as did the CSL but the Caps are a moderate success now under their new ownership.

Many people are reluctant to accept the fact that soccer is not the number one sport in Canada or USA. Why I don't know, it shouldn't affect their love for the North American game.

The Caps only draw around 5000 because the stadium doesn't hold much more than that (see bottom) with a shortage of amenities. That's why they are building a new stadium.

As to your bias it is natural. To come from a great soccer country like Brazil why wouldn't you look down on other countries. But the fact remains it isn't 20-50 years ago. The other countries are improving and often at a rate faster than the old powers.

There are many reasons why Canada had difficulty in the last WCQ. I don't think people realize the difficulty they face in playing in some Concacaf countries, but that is an excuse and yes we should be getting past them as we used to and will again. I think our team leaders are finally realizing what it takes to beat these countries and it's more than having the best players on the field.

Canada hit a down cycle after the folding of the NASL and CSL and finally is now on the upswing again after hitting rock bottom in the WCQ.

There are people who for whatever reason have an agenda towards soccer in Canada. This thread itself was started by a long time troll to stir up anti-Canada talk. Why, I don't know. I find it disheartening when people come on here and criticize the Canadian program without knowing anything about it and laud their auld country team when often the Canadian team is ranked higher.

Don't kid yourself about the Fifa rankings, inconsistant, yes but whether old school fans want to admit it or not the USA is a good team. The competitive edge and fear the major powers once had is no longer there. Naysayers were predicting a 5-0 score for Spain over Canada. We came out in an attacking formation (surprising everybody) and barely lost 2-1 playing in Spain.

The Czech Republic is a good team, don't really know about Sweden but Mexico is definately ordinary if you get them out of Azteca.

The times they are a changin'. As I tell people, there is a Canadians Abroad List that has about 100 players. Just six years ago that list contained a whole lot less players playing at far lower clubs. On our team that went to the Confederations Cup in 2000 only five players are still with the program. The players now play at a much higher club level than those guys did and are exposed to some of the best players in the world. That wasn't the case before.

Edit: Now based at 5,700-seat Swangard Stadium in suburban Burnaby, the Whitecaps had six sellouts last season and drew a standing-room-only crowd of 6,800 for a match against Sunderland of the English Premier League.

[Brantford_Tim]

Revisionism is not a good thing. Holger had a player mutiny with his form of discipline (the order to stay in the hotel rooms in Japan, was one of many) and this tranlated into a losing team.

You forget he hardly ever used substitutes and after the Gold Cup he was a bust as a coach. If you want to talk about his tenure as TD I would say that was more successful.

Substitutes? we didn't have enough quality starters not to mention subs.
Remember also the players were unprofessional and Holger treated as such which a manager should do discipline is a must in pro sports. Yallop days as national team boss is coming to and end thank god so lets hope the CSA put some thinking into his replacement.......Bruce Wilson?

[Joe MacCarthy]

Substitutes? we didn't have enough quality starters not to mention subs.
Remember also the players were unprofessional and Holger treated as such which a manager should do discipline is a must in pro sports. Yallop days as national team boss is coming to and end thank god so lets hope the CSA put some thinking into his replacement.......Bruce Wilson?I agree to a point that the depth wasn't there but not blooding new players and having the players on the field tripping over their tongues was a fault of Holger later into his regime. There are always opportunities to introduce new players. Early on he seemed to have an uncanny ability to sub but then he seemed to stop subbing altogether.

There is zero evidence of the players being unprofessional. Holger had a problem with one player, Marc Bircham, talking on the bus and wearing a hat at dinner. He made the players stay in their hotel rooms in Japan. You can't further your Yallop agenda by lionizing Holger. The facts won't bear it out. We've already talked about FY and I hope we don't again (you know what I mean)

There is no evidence FY days are coming to an end (by the CSA) unless he wants them to by accepting a coaching job in MLS.

If he does leave and the job is up for grabs I would expect Richard Bate to put his imprint on the program by hiring a foreign coach. I don't know if I like that idea but I did like the way Holger threw himself into the job. Don't know if another foreign coach would do the same.

Bruce Wilson would be an interesting choice. The problem there is high level coaching experience. There were enough people complaining about FY's experience and Bruce has even less than FY at a high level.

[Brantford_Tim]

I agree to a point that the depth wasn't there but not blooding new players and having the players on the field tripping over their tongues was a fault of Holger later into his regime. There are always opportunities to introduce new players. Early on he seemed to have an uncanny ability to sub but then he seemed to stop subbing altogether.

There is zero evidence of the players being unprofessional. Holger had a problem with one player, Marc Bircham, talking on the bus and wearing a hat at dinner. He made the players stay in their hotel rooms in Japan. You can't further your Yallop agenda by lionizing Holger. The facts won't bear it out. We've already talked about FY and I hope we don't again (you know what I mean)

There is no evidence FY days are coming to an end (by the CSA) unless he wants them to by accepting a coaching job in MLS.

If he does leave and the job is up for grabs I would expect Richard Bate to put his imprint on the program by hiring a foreign coach. I don't know if I like that idea but I did like the way Holger threw himself into the job. Don't know if another foreign coach would do the same.

Bruce Wilson would be an interesting choice. The problem there is high level coaching experience. There were enough people complaining about FY's experience and Bruce has even less than FY at a high level.


It was i believe more then one player Holger had problems with, Radz ,Pesch
also stayed away from the national side because of holgers discipline methods. We need a foreign coach simple because they are more experienced
at the job then most canadians managers. As for FY leaving it may just be internet rumours, but a lot of folks are saying the same thing that he will return to MLS (most likely Los Angeles by all reports) and good luck to him,
there he found success with his coaching methods.

[Joe MacCarthy]

It was i believe more then one player Holger had problems with, Radz ,Pesch
also stayed away from the national side because of holgers discipline methods. We need a foreign coach simple because they are more experienced
at the job then most canadians managers. As for FY leaving it may just be internet rumours, but a lot of folks are saying the same thing that he will return to MLS (most likely Los Angeles by all reports) and good luck to him,
there he found success with his coaching methods.Beast, please back up your points. Rad did not have issues with Holger. Rad was solidifying his career with Anderlecht and Everton and chose not to come out for the team. If you'll notice he came back when Holger was still the coach. IIRC it was his parents who thought he should play for the Leaf again and convinced him.

If you think we need a foreign coach then why was your first suggestion Bruce Wilson? There are Canadians who qualify. Dale Mitchell for one (intl and club experience) but it looks like he'll stay with the U20s until 2007.

It's an odd thing about picking a coach. If we pick a foreign coach it is kind of a parochial thing saying that there aren't Canadians qualified to do the job, which is not true. But to pick somebody for the job because he is Canadian isn't right either if they are not as qualified.

The example of the above is the Duze who may not have been ready to coach at the CMNT level. But how do you find out someone is ready until you give them a chance?

Canadian soccer will never prosper until we find made in Canada solutions like better coaching and no poaching of players (thank God we don't do much of that anymore). Relying on foreigners (Europeans) who have no experience with Concacaf officiating, tactics, and conditions won't do us much good either. It will always leave us one step behind.

Frank Yallop is on the right road but with rumours of his leaving (MetroStars) and Richard Bate on the scene we may go back to square one yet again.

[Brantford_Tim]

Beast, please back up your points. Rad did not have issues with Holger. Rad was solidifying his career with Anderlecht and Everton and chose not to come out for the team. If you'll notice he came back when Holger was still the coach. IIRC it was his parents who thought he should play for the Leaf again and convinced him.

If you think we need a foreign coach then why was your first suggestion Bruce Wilson? There are Canadians who qualify. Dale Mitchell for one (intl and club experience) but it looks like he'll stay with the U20s until 2007.

It's an odd thing about picking a coach. If we pick a foreign coach it is kind of a parochial thing saying that there aren't Canadians qualified to do the job, which is not true. But to pick somebody for the job because he is Canadian isn't right either if they are not as qualified.

The example of the above is the Duze who may not have been ready to coach at the CMNT level. But how do you find out someone is ready until you give them a chance?

Canadian soccer will never prosper until we find made in Canada solutions like better coaching and no poaching of players (thank God we don't do much of that anymore). Relying on foreigners (Europeans) who have no experience with Concacaf officiating, tactics, and conditions won't do us much good either. It will always leave us one step behind.

Frank Yallop is on the right road but with rumours of his leaving (MetroStars) and Richard Bate on the scene we may go back to square one yet again.


Wasn't radz the one with the plane ticket issue? although that may had more to do with the CSA then Holger. you say Radz did not want to join the team
so he could play for his european teams, is that the kind of player Canada needs who put himself first. Ok i know it's his paying job, but fifa rules allow clubs to release players for internationals, wcq, etc, so he should have had a problem with his clubs side missing a few games since we don't play a lot during the year anyways. Why must our national manager be Canadian?
We need managers from countries that are far ahead of us to teach our players how to play instead of defending and hoping for a good bounch and get a lucky win. Bruce Wislon would be my first choice to replace Frank ,
he his well liked in Canadian soccer circles, he knows the international game,
and im sure would get more out of the players then Frank can. Frank is too close to some of the players and that can't be good for a manager to be pals
with the pl;ayers he is selecting. Pat Onstad should have never played in the recent wcq he was terrible but was a friend/player with him at san jose earthquakes. Concacaf officals are not the best but they didn't cost a world cup berth as much as many people think, a good team can get past bad officals instead of throwing water bottles, getting red carded. Our officals are
not much better you don't see many canadian officials getting prime world cup games or ones in concacaf for that matter. It's nice that dale Mitchell
will be staying with with the U-20's till after the 2007 tournament, he had the most success of any Canadian manager in football for quite a while.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Still not sure why you are saying we need a foreign coach and suggesting Bruce Wilson. You do know he is Canadian :)

I do agree about leaving club sides for the National Team. I did a long post on that issue.

The problem is when players do leave their club and return they are often relegated to the bench or can lose their position entirely. That is sometimes because they are being penalized and sometimes the player competition itself.

However my contention is that the players who have had the guts to do this for Canada have prospered at club level (Stalteri, DeVos, Fenwick) and those who haven't (Parker, Nsaliwa) have suffered. Rad is a strange case in that as he became more of a "star" he became more committed for Canada. This manifested itself in him becoming a leader (the plane ticket issue) and also stating he wanted to return to Canada and becoming involved in development.

Notice in a European article of a Canadian player it will always say Canadian international, being an international has status in Europe. Also playing for one's country also has visibility for a player, so if they are put in the doghouse when they return to their club, they have not only been seen by scouts but they also have the status of being recognized as an international.

If they are a good enough player they will soon come out of the doghouse if not they have all of the above exposure.

We need managers from countries that are far ahead of us to teach our players how to play instead of defending and hoping for a good bounch and get a lucky win. Bruce Wislon would be my first choice to replace Frank.

That is exactly what we have been doing under Frank. It is his most explicit achievement. We have gotten away from the boot and chase game. We played three strikers against Spain, that's outrageous, and it was successful. Yes, we lost to one of the world's best teams. Keep playing like this and we will get there quickly.

Pat was the only logical starter. Lars wasn't getting any playing time and Pat was playing well in MLS. Pat had two bad games in the WCQ, people seem to forget that he had two great games that he singlehandedly kept us in and if we could have scored it would have been a different story. I remember the game in Costa Rica which I summarized at Net 54, he stopped two, two on nones.

Notice that Pat has again won the MLS keeper of the year and now we have some competition in goal with Sutton, Lars, Kenny all getting first team action.

I wouldn't say the officiating cost us a spot in the hex but it sure didn't help. We could have overcome it but the momentum was lost.

[Brantford_Tim]

Still not sure why you are saying we need a foreign coach and suggesting Bruce Wilson. You do know he is Canadian :)

I do agree about leaving club sides for the National Team. I did a long post on that issue.

The problem is when players do leave their club and return they are often relegated to the bench or can lose their position entirely. That is sometimes because they are being penalized and sometimes the player competition itself.

However my contention is that the players who have had the guts to do this for Canada have prospered at club level (Stalteri, DeVos, Fenwick) and those who haven't (Parker, Nsaliwa) have suffered. Rad is a strange case in that as he became more of a "star" he became more committed for Canada. This manifested itself in him becoming a leader (the plane ticket issue) and also stating he wanted to return to Canada and becoming involved in development.

Notice in a European article of a Canadian player it will always say Canadian international, being an international has status in Europe. Also playing for one's country also has visibility for a player, so if they are put in the doghouse when they return to their club, they have not only been seen by scouts but they also have the status of being recognized as an international.

If they are a good enough player they will soon come out of the doghouse if not they have all of the above exposure.

We need managers from countries that are far ahead of us to teach our players how to play instead of defending and hoping for a good bounch and get a lucky win. Bruce Wislon would be my first choice to replace Frank.

That is exactly what we have been doing under Frank. It is his most explicit achievement. We have gotten away from the boot and chase game. We played three strikers against Spain, that's outrageous, and it was successful. Yes, we lost to one of the world's best teams. Keep playing like this and we will get there quickly.

Pat was the only logical starter. Lars wasn't getting any playing time and Pat was playing well in MLS. Pat had two bad games in the WCQ, people seem to forget that he had two great games that he singlehandedly kept us in and if we could have scored it would have been a different story. I remember the game in Costa Rica which I summarized at Net 54, he stopped two, two on nones.

Notice that Pat has again won the MLS keeper of the year and now we have some competition in goal with Sutton, Lars, Kenny all getting first team action.

I wouldn't say the officiating cost us a spot in the hex but it sure didn't help. We could have overcome it but the momentum was lost.


Yes i did know he's Canadian. The benefit of MLS is that players will be able
to play at home and still be able to play for canada if the CSA gets them together enough times during the year (A subject for another day). I thought
that Onstad had retired from the national side after the WCQ? Did he have a change of Heart? I really think that Sutton & Lars are the keepers of the future for Canada.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Yes i did know he's Canadian. The benefit of MLS is that players will be able
to play at home and still be able to play for canada if the CSA gets them together enough times during the year (A subject for another day). I thought
that Onstad had retired from the national side after the WCQ? Did he have a change of Heart? I really think that Sutton & Lars are the keepers of the future for Canada.Yes, Pat retired from the Nats. We have gone from goaltending poverty to riches almost overnight. Hirschfeld, Sutton, Stamatopolous, Fernandes are all in the mix.

Sutton and Stamatopolous were revelations for me. They are usually derided for the level their clubs teams play but both shone in their international play.

Down the road look for Asmir Begovic and Robert Giacomi who already are playing full time pro soccer and are still in their teens. Begovic is only 18 and is playing for La Louviere in Belgium (on loan from Portsmouth). Like Fernandes he has struggled but to get first team pro experience at his age is extraordinary for a Canadian player.