Confederations Cup 2009

[gambine]

I heard not too long ago that Arsene Wenger had an idea for a revamped Confederations Cup. His idea was that each continent be represented by one team. That one team being a "european" team, which would have the best europeans, as opposed to having individual nations represented. I think it would be good idea and would give another dimension to the game.

Think about how good these teams would be. Europe and South America would obviously be powerhouses and even Africa could field a great team. So could Asia for that matter. I think it'd be a great tournament to see.

[Juve Fan]

Great idea.. Imagine how cool will it be... Like an All-Star game... I felt like Confederations cup was a friendly tournie last time... However this is a great idea... I just hope Fifa does not refuse it, they dont like changes :(

[gambine]

Wow, I didn't think I was going to get a response. But it is a great idea isn't it!! Wenger is a smart man. Just imagine the level of play we'd see. The depth on the teams would be mind boggling. I agree with you on FIFA, but I'm sure they'd make a lot more money with this format.

[Juve Fan]

Well sure they would make money but they will have to face lots of trouble.. Mainly from clubs, simply because every club will refuse sending their best players and will tell them that they need them for important matches... Then we will end up with an All-crap team not an All star team... I think it is a really good idea to have all continents in that cup, but.... Its going to take a long time before it gets an approval...

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Juventus 4 ever...
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[gambine]

I think they could change the timing of the tournament. AFter all, it's a new tournament, so nothing is written in stone. The clubs would probably still complain because of the chance of injury. I don't like when they do that kind of stuff, but they do have a valid argument. I'm a Milan fan, and I know at the beginning of the season we went without Boban because he got injured when Croatia played Malta of all teams. We could have definatley used him.

So the clubs do have a legitimate argument.

Let's fantasize with a starting line up for Europe. Let's assume that all players are healthy, and go for a 22 man roster.

For strikers I'd bring in 4 in no particular order.
1.Vieri
2.Del Piero
3.Shevchenko :)
4.Totti(I'd play him as a DP type striker)

Who are your picks.

[Juve Fan]

Hmmm, thats a hard choice.. lots of players.. Well here goes..

Strikers European All Star(No order too ;) ):
1. Sheva
2. Del Piero
3. Raul
4. Lopez
5. Kluivert

Strikers S.America All-star:
1. R9 - if he is Okay at that time
2. Batigol (Argentina)
3. Jardel ( Brazil)
4. Palermo (Argentina)

Strikers Africa All-Star
1. Mustafa Hadji (Coventry city, Morroco)
2. Hossam Hassan (Al Ain, Egypt)
3. Nwaknwo kanu ( Arsenal, Nigeria)
4. Hazem Emam (Undinese, Egypt)

Strikers for Asia all-star
1. Nakata
2. Ali Daie
3. Mehdi Mehdivekia
4. Nawaf el temyat

Strikers for N.America All-star:
1. N/A
2. N/A
3. N/A

Sorry dont know any :(, I know you are mad now since I live in Canada but know nothing about the winners of the gold cup.. Anyways I give you this space add any players from the canadian national team ;)



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[Juve Fan]

Wish any of the other posters join this topic, its really interesting ... but ... :(

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Juventus 4 ever...
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[gambine]

I thought we were just gonna do Europe, but since you expanded on things I'll do the same.

Kluivert is a good choice, I was thinking about him but decided against it. I thought Lopez was Argentinian?

South America
1.R9
2.Batigol
3.Crespo
4.Recoba
5.Elber

Africa
1.Hadji
2.Kanu
3.Mboma
4.Eto'o
5.Hassan

Asia
1.Nakata
2.Ali Daie
Don't really know anymore good players.

As for N.America, no I'm not mad, I don't know too much about the team either. They're never in the news, and if a game is on TV, it's not even advertized. We'll just leave N.A. out. :(

[Omar]

I think that is a so-so idea. What I like about it is, as Juve Fan commented, it would be like an All-Star game. However, what I don't like about it is that the teams really wouldn't be "teams," like they are in the present-day Confederation's Cup.
Also, this idea is similar to the World Cup Gala Match, where Europe plays against "Rest of World." I really enjoy that, as I'm sure most people do, so I think Wenger's idea is good.
I've commented on how it would be bad, and how it would be good. Overall, what is your perspective? More good or more bad?

Juve Fan: For North American All-Stars, you could have Blanco and Hernandez. . .And yes, this is a very interesting topic (I'll probably have more to say later :) )

Comments, opinions?

[Omar]

Yeah, Claudio Lopez is Argentinian, but there are other Lopezes (sounds funny!).

[Juve Fan]

Oh right... what a mistake, how do you make the embarrassed face ?? Okay consider I did the face ;)... Well I just get confused because he plays in Valencia and besides the two countries have about same lang. style e.t.c...

As for N.America then yeah, maybe Hernandez, Blanco and some Americans would be Okay..

I think the benfits exceed the loss, but if the tournie is well organised and serious...

BTW I liked the Europe Vs. World game..

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[This message has been edited by Juve Fan (edited 21 April 2000).]

[Omar]

Excuses, excuses, Juve Fan (Claudio Lopez). :rolleyes: Just kidding. :)
Look at the Smilies Legend to your left when you're posting. --> :o

Wouldn't it be cool if they did this Confederation's Cup and Wenger's idea? Both, I mean. :) If only there were 48 hours in a day and 500 days in a year. . .Ah. . . :)

Who were you cheering for in the Gala match? I was for the Rest of World. :cool:

[Juve Fan]

:mad: , I should not have made this mistake.. Now its going to be remembered for ever :mad:

:) :) :)

Well for the Gala match, I was not supporting a team in particular, I was just looking for a nice game...Zidane put in a lots of effort in that game, that guy works hard..


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Juventus 4 ever...
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[Omar]

Ah, don't worry about it Juve Fan! :)
By the way, the only reason I wanted "Rest of World" is to show Europeans that soccer is good elsewhere! A lot of my favorite players are Europeans, but I hope you understand my point. :)

[Juve Fan]

Oh yeah I get that point, infact thats the only reasonable point to support the rest of the world... The point is, they (Europe) get players from S.America, and Africa (skills in these 2 continents) and call their leagues and national teams best in the world.. Now we saw the best in the WC's

Spain - Nigeria 2-3
Cameroon WC90, if it wasnt for the England game ref ARGHHH..
Nigeria WC 94
Morroco WC98
Brazil all WCS
Argentina
and the list goes to infinity...



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Juventus 4 ever...
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[gambine]

I think overall it is a good idea. I don't know about you guys, but I wasn't exactly eager with anticipation for the Confed Cup. I was interested in watching, but didn't care too much about it. I don't think I'm the only one with this sort of feeling towards it.

I think it needs a change, if not this change, then something else.

[Real and Ajax fan]

Yeah, I think a change here would be good. I too wasn't eager to watch gambine. It was just something to do if i had nothing else. i mean, it's a good tourney, but not the best, in my opinion. I like Wenger's idea that was brought up.

[Xizor]

I know its an old ass thread but I didn't see any thread for this competition. The tournament starts tomorrow. I'll post the groups and matches here.

[Xizor]

Group 1
South Africa
Iraq
New Zealand
Spain

[Xizor]

Group 2
Brazil
Egypt
USA
Italy

[Xizor]

Round 1
Sunday June 14, 2009

South Africa vs. Iraq

New Zealand vs. Spain

[Xizor]

Round 1
Monday June 15, 2009

Brazil vs. Egypt

USA vs. Italy

[Xizor]

By the way I see Brazil taking this tournament, no doubt. They haven't been playing great football but they'll turn it up during the next few days.

[PAO_HELLAS]

I am rooting for South Africa and Brazil as they have Panathinaikos players :D.

[Andygers]

LOL the announcer at the stadium just said "Do not blow the bobozellas" :lol:

The South Africa vs Iraq game kicks off in like 10 minutes.

[Musicá]

Still nothing exciting in the Iraq - South Africa match.

[PAO_HELLAS]

Yes it was a bad game. I would expect something more from South Africa.

[Xizor]

What a boring game that was.

Spain vs. New Zealand next.

[VitezBiH]

Spain already leading, this ought to be a massacre.

I'm surprised Spain are playing all their normal starters. You'd think they would give some of the young players a chance?

Oh well.

[VitezBiH]

Torres hattrick in 17 minutes flat. :shocked:

[BavarianRed]

This match is toooo easy for Spain...

[Andygers]

Spain are different class.

They will end up winning 10-0.

[VitezBiH]

I'm going to say 8-0

[BavarianRed]

HT Spain 4-0 New Zealand, Spain are dominating this game inside out...
New Zealand shouldn't even be in this tournament, they might as well pack there stuff early..

[Musicá]

my bet is on 7-0

[Ronni]

New Zealanders are more used to rugby scores ...
:lol:

[Xizor]

I think New Zealand has a chance to be in the semi finals. Assuming Spain kicks South Africa and Iraq's asses, it will all be left to goal differences and the results between the three teams in that group.

[Xizor]

Match Information
South Africa 0-0 Iraq

Stadium: Ellis Park, Johannesburgo
Match Time: June 14, 2009, 10:00 ET
Official(s): Larrionda, Jorge (Referee)

[Xizor]

Match Information
New Zealand 0-5 Spain

Stadium: Real Bafokeng, Rustenburgo
Match Time: June 14, 2009, 14:30 ET
Official(s): Codjia, Coffi (Referee)
Scoring Summary: Fernando Torres (6), Fernando Torres (14), Fernando Torres (17), Francesc Fábregas (24), David Villa (48)

[BavarianRed]

Refs keep ruining the beautiful game thats being played by the best players in the world, unnecessary offsides were called a number of times on spain when on the replay they were clearly about a metre from the player when the through ball came in.. :boo: Refs are blind at times :red-card:

[Xizor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeGM-luG6KY

Little preview of tomorrows match, USA vs. Italy. Could it be like the one in 2006, or worst? lol Anyways check at Bruce Arena's (USA coach in the 2006 WC) reaction after their second man is sent off, priceless. :Pound:

[Xizor]

Torres smashes hat-trick
Updated: June 14, 2009, 3:00 AM ET

Spain extended their unbeaten run to 33 matches with an embarrassingly one-sided win over New Zealand in their Confederations Cup opener.

The top team in Oceania were no match for the European Champions, who were 4-0 up inside 24 minutes with Liverpool striker Fernando Torres grabbing a hat-trick.

Cesc Fabregas was also on the scoresheet with David Villa netting a fifth in front of a sparse crowd in the mining town of Rustenburg.

New Zealand were without captain Ryan Nelsen of Blackburn Rovers and his absence proved key as their defensive limitations were cruelly exposed by a team possessing some of the best attacking players in the world.

Despite the tournament coming at the end of a long European season, Spain looked fresh and took the game to the All Whites from the off.

And it took only six minutes for Torres to make his mark.

The former Atletico Madrid star was afforded far too much time and space on the edge of the area and he easily turned before curling a delicious right foot shot into the top right hand corner.

Torres struck again eight minutes later. Albert Riera played a clever pass to Villa and his cut-back was perfect for his strike-partner to guide the ball past New Zealand keeper Glen Moss with his instep.

Torres could have added a third after 16 minutes but his header, after Villa's shot had been blocked by Moss' feet, was weak and the Kiwi keeper gathered.

He made no mistake a minute later, though, powerfully heading home Joan Capdevila's left-wing cross.

New Zealand looked shellshocked and they continued to have no answers to Spain's pass-and-move game.

Riera was next to try his luck with a right-foot shot that Moss saved well but it proved a temporary reprieve as Vicente Del Bosque's men scored their fourth from their next attack.

A long passage of possession football culminated in Capdevila finding space inside the box and his low centre was tapped into an empty net by Fabregas.

Spain's intensity finally relented, although New Zealand were still struggling to retain the ball.

They did force Spain keeper Iker Casillas into action a minute before half-time, though, the Real Madrid man flying full length to tip Dave Mulligan's free-kick around the post.

New Zealand coach Ricki Herbert would have demanded his players show pride in the second half but his team-talk went out of the window only three minutes after the restart when Villa made it 5-0 following a horrible blunder from defender Andy Boyens.

Torres' cross from the left should have been cleared but Boyens performed an air-kick, with the ball reaching Villa at the far post and he had the simplest of tasks to tap in.

Spain could have added more but Capdevila shot wide when well placed while Fabregas lashed a volley over after more defensive hesitancy.

[Željin Zmaj]

lol Italy should've lost to New Zealand.... they were down 0-1....then 1-2....then 2-3..... and somehow they managed to win 4-3 instead. Italy robbed New Zealand of their win lol.

Spain beat them 4-0 in halftime already. They played half-assed the second half and only managed 1 goal.

I'm glad that we only lost 1-0 to them at away and didn't embarrass ourselves with like 3-0 or 4-0 loss, lol.

Spain is good.

[Xizor]

Group A Table
June 14, 2009

Spain 3
South Africa 1
Iraq 1
New Zealand 0

[Xizor]

Egypt 1-2 Brazil 26th minute.

[Xizor]

Egypt 1-3 Brazil half time.

[Cole Train]

3-3 Brazil v Egypt so far. What a game, i'm supporting Egypt in this match.

[Željin Zmaj]

Omg, 2 goals that fast. I was on SFN and ESPN was turned on, on my TV, and I heard 3-2 goal...... then like 2 minutes later, I look at the screen and it mysteriously shows 3-3. :confused:

If Egypt wins this, it would be so damn cool, :).

Goal times for 3-2 and 3-3:

54'
55'

Mohammed Zidan scored 2 goals. I always thought this guy was a very great player but a bit unnoticed.

Egypt is attacking much more at the moment. What makes them different than the other African NT is the fact that they are better balanced and more secure. They have really good chemistry in passing and controlling the ball, even against Brazil. This is a very exciting team that I want to see go far in the Confederations Cup.

[Cole Train]

Egypt are schooling Brazil in midfield, it's not
even funny lol


There playing much faster, stronger and seem to know what there doing - unlike Brazil.

[Cole Train]

4-3 to Brazil, Kaka scored with a penalty.

[Željin Zmaj]

Kaka is a bastard, and the ref was pro-Brazil.

[Musicá]

Lol pro-Brazil?
Dude, he blocked an clear goal with his arm, ofc its a penalty.

[VitezBiH]

Shame Egypt didn't pull a draw at least.

Meanwhile, USA 1-1 Italy 58th.
:)

[Željin Zmaj]

USA better not win because one of my teammates thinks USA is superpower.

[VitezBiH]

They wont. But nonetheless, Go USA! :)

[Željin Zmaj]

USA 1-2 Italy

2nd half should've been 1-6 or more so far.

[LindavG]

Yess Italy won 3-1!! :) Usually I don't cheer for Italy but I can't stand the cocky Americans and their overrated NT ;)

[LindavG]

USA better not win because one of my teammates thinks USA is superpower.

That's what I mean :lol:

[TM87_Maniac]

This kid in my school thinks USA can beat Bosnia...pisses me off

[Ronni]

Kaka is a bastard, and the ref was pro-Brazil.

:shocked:
Are you kidding?
Did you really seee the match?
Did you see the penalty?

Anyway it's always sad when the underdogs don't manage to win despite of a good match.
But Egypt isn't such an underdog!
They're african champions!

[VitezBiH]

Yess Italy won 3-1!! :) Usually I don't cheer for Italy but I can't stand the cocky Americans and their overrated NT ;)

Cocky?

I've never heard of them being cocky. Actually, I don't know if you're heard some of the interviews with Howard and Bocanegra, but they always downplay their own NT and take everything in stride. If anything, they're humble.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and defend the fans, because we all know Americans can be quite cocky. :lol:

[Ronni]

This kid in my school thinks USA can beat Bosnia...pisses me off

USA shouldn't beat Italy, or Spain, or Brazil.
But I wouldn't be surprised if they beat BIH.

[Ronni]

Cocky?
Now, I'm not going to sit here and defend the fans, because we all know Americans can be quite cocky. :lol:

They tend to overestimate their own soccer NT just because they don't know much about soccer, and they just extrapolate from other sports, and in most of the cases they do belong to the top teams.
So I can accept it. It's just ignorance, not arrogance.

What I can't accept is the overestimation of people from nations that never won anything, some of them haven't even qualified to any important tournament, and still they consider their NT something special ...

In this forum we have some good examples of these guys.

[VitezBiH]

They tend to overestimate their own soccer NT just because they don't know much about soccer, and they just extrapolate from other sports, and in most of the cases they do belong to the top teams.
So I can accept it. It's just ignorance, not arrogance.

What I can't accept is the overestimation of people from nations that never won anything, some of them haven't even qualified to any important tournament, and still they consider their NT something special ...

In this forum we have some good examples of these guys.

Let's cut the formalities, Bosnians?

So what, national pride and a gritty attitude go a long way, and our current standing in the qualification stage shouldn't be considered lightly. You put together the fact that some of our best players are also our youngest players, and you have a legit reason for pride.

[LindavG]

Cocky?

I've never heard of them being cocky. Actually, I don't know if you're heard some of the interviews with Howard and Bocanegra, but they always downplay their own NT and take everything in stride. If anything, they're humble.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and defend the fans, because we all know Americans can be quite cocky. :lol:

I was talking about the fans, not the players ;) You should check some other forums out and see how the Americans talk about their NT as if it's a Brazil the second, and when it comes to the World Cup they see themselves as outsiders to win it lmao. I know not all of them are like this and I shouldn't generalize etc. but come on, we all know the vast majority of Americans think like this, it's in their nature to be arrogant :p

[VitezBiH]

I was talking about the fans, not the players ;) You should check some other forums out and see how the Americans talk about their NT as if it's a Brazil the second, and when it comes to the World Cup they see themselves as outsiders to win it lmao. I know not all of them are like this and I shouldn't generalize etc. but come on, we all know the vast majority of Americans think like this, it's in their nature to be arrogant :p

Fine, I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that the team itself is usually humble.

[TM87_Maniac]

USA shouldn't beat Italy, or Spain, or Brazil.
But I wouldn't be surprised if they beat BIH.

I would be quite surprised

[BavarianRed]

If brazil continue to play like they did today i dont see them winning this tournament, Spain can take them..

[son_of_a_Turk]

This kid in my school thinks USA can beat Bosnia...pisses me off



USA shouldn't beat Italy, or Spain, or Brazil.
But I wouldn't be surprised if they beat BIH.



What do you guys think Bosnia is so that you rate them so much higher than US? They are pretty much similar teams on a similar level...

[son_of_a_Turk]

I was quite impressed by Egypt. I mean they are a very decent team. I think Spain will go down, either Italy or Brazil will take it. Egypt are the underdogs...

[TM87_Maniac]

What do you guys think Bosnia is so that you rate them so much higher than US? They are pretty much similar teams on a similar level...

Lets be honest...most of the US players play in MLS which isn't really much better than HNL...If US and Bosnia played im sure we would beat them at least 3-1

[Cole Train]

I remember there used to be this Egyptian girl in my class, she was kinda hot but a whore nevertheless.

And there used to be some 2 hot Blonde girls aswell.


Anyway, Egypy are protesting the PK decison because they said that the 4th official watched a moniter and then decided to tell the ref to give a penalty. Which is illegal in football.

[Željin Zmaj]

I remember there used to be this Egyptian girl in my class, she was kinda hot but a whore nevertheless.

And there used to be some 2 hot Blonde girls aswell.


Anyway, Egypy are protesting the PK decison because they said that the 4th official watched a moniter and then decided to tell the ref to give a penalty. Which is illegal in football.

:lol:

Anyways the ref wants Brazil to go through because FIFA favors them. It's quite simple really.

[Milanista85]

If Luca Toni finished a bit better it could have been a bigger rout. It could have been 5-1. He missed like two sitters. The US should count themselves lucky.

[Vipaman]

lol Italy should've lost to New Zealand.... they were down 0-1....then 1-2....then 2-3..... and somehow they managed to win 4-3 instead. Italy robbed New Zealand of their win lol.

Not exactly accurate with a 70/30 lop sided possession in Italy's favor and NZ netting 3 goals on 3 shots on net. Two of them on set pieces and one on a penalty.

Amelia was quite horrible in that game completely blind on two set pieces and then letting a penalty kick go under him...ridiculous, but what was equally strange was Lippi's 4-2-4 formation with two DM's, one of which didn't seem to have any legs and culpable on two goals. After NZ got their penalty goal, Lippi seemed to have enough and did a wholesale change from 5 B players to A players and Italy quickly returned a natural order to things. I liked how NZ took their chances, our little cousins to the south aren't usually very good at football, but since we left Oceana, they stand a chance to get into the World Cup :lol:

They should stop saying we never do anything nice for them :)

[Vipaman]

Egypt are schooling Brazil in midfield, it's not
even funny lol


There playing much faster, stronger and seem to know what there doing - unlike Brazil.

For me, it didn't look like Brazil were putting a lot of effort into it.

[Vipaman]

Yess Italy won 3-1!! :) Usually I don't cheer for Italy but I can't stand the cocky Americans and their overrated NT ;)

The funny part of this is that Giuseppe Rossi is the one who really buried the US, and he was born in New Jersey of two Italian parents nonetheless, but held US citizenship and was asked to represent the US in the 2006 WC which he declined so he could eventually suit up for Italy. He's a great little player. He's an equivalent talent to Pato of Brazil. It will be interesting to see them against each other in their final match of the first round.

Oh, and Amercians are calling him a sell-out, even though he left at 12 to Parma, sold to Manchester, back to Parma and then spending the last two seasons at Villareal. They're talking as if they created him, even while his Dad was his coach and came to the US to take up a coaching position in New Jersey.

It's not as if the majority of their lineup aren't foreign talent anyhow (The US that is), much like ours in Australia.

[son_of_a_Turk]

Rossi is Italian and if he were to play for US, he would be a traitor in my eyes. Same as Hamit Altintop, Yildiray Basturk etc... Or the traitor Mesut Ozil who chose Germany over Turkey.

Doesn't matter where he is born, he should play for the team of his ancestors. He left US when he was 12-13 or something anyways, so how much of an American is he?

[Vipaman]

If Luca Toni finished a bit better it could have been a bigger rout. It could have been 5-1. He missed like two sitters. The US should count themselves lucky.

He's been dog bitten at tournaments hasn't he? Rossi is a revelation, even though one that most people expected. That first goal was priceless, stripped the midfielder of the ball and cracked a left footer inches in from the post and keepers hand - almost identical to his first goal. Nice shot. Toni shouldn't be starting. Even though he managed to get the opportunities that Iaquinta and Gilardino could not, he couldn't finish at all.

[Vipaman]

Rossi is Italian and if he were to play for US, he would be a traitor in my eyes. Same as Hamit Altintop, Yildiray Basturk etc... Or the traitor Mesut Ozil who chose Germany over Turkey.

Doesn't matter where he is born, he should play for the team of his ancestors. He left US when he was 12-13 or something anyways, so how much of an American is he?

Point is, like Hargraeves of England being born in Canada, he was born in the US so that gives him the opportunity to play for both really. Of course he'd chose a team with pedigree, especially if he has the talent for it. I don't blame him. He remarked that he spoke Italian in the home, was raised by his father - an Italian tactician and so forth, so I agree that he's Italian given he holds an Italian passport as well. I just find it funny that a lot of American's call him a sell-out when each and everyone of them would do the same thing. And American's at large are immigrants, so he's as American as he wanted to be, but in this case he didn't want to be.

[VitezBiH]

Rossi is Italian and if he were to play for US, he would be a traitor in my eyes. Same as Hamit Altintop, Yildiray Basturk etc... Or the traitor Mesut Ozil who chose Germany over Turkey.

Doesn't matter where he is born, he should play for the team of his ancestors. He left US when he was 12-13 or something anyways, so how much of an American is he?

Not that I disagree with Rossi choosing Italy over the U.S. but by your philosophy, America wouldn't have any players at all, and a lot of countries would be left without their best players :lol:

[Cole Train]

Not that I disagree with Rossi choosing Italy over the U.S. but by your philosophy, America wouldn't have any players at all, and a lot of countries would be left without their best players :lol:

Yeah, South America would be the worlds worst footballing zone then. Also, Brazil would have a football team full of indigenous natives from the Amazon rainforest haha

[son_of_a_Turk]

Not that I disagree with Rossi choosing Italy over the U.S. but by your philosophy, America wouldn't have any players at all, and a lot of countries would be left without their best players :lol:


Well, Rossi's case is different. His father is Italian, he is not Italian-American. The kid is more Italian than American. So, Rossi is the generation that can choose Italy over US. But the 2nd or 3rd generations become Americans. I don't know if you get what I mean... If Rossi was the son of an American who did not even speak Italian but had Italian ancestors, the case would be different, just like most of the people in the US these days.

That's my two cents.

[Vipaman]

As I understand it, even if only Rossi's grandfather was Italian, he could apply for citizenship, gain it immediately and represent Italy. You are correct, he has absolutely nothing against him playing for Italy. In this case, he could have represented both. Like Hargraeves for England, who I understand doesn't have immediate English ancestry as his mother was Canadian born of English descent and father was Welsh, and Podolski for Poland/Germany, Rossi made his choice to represent the team with more pedigree. Happens all the time.

[Željin Zmaj]

I think there should be only one national team. All the best players in the world should make just one team....situated in the depths of Africa, near Congo, where the first humans appeared.

[Cole Train]

^ how do you know that the first humans are from africa? According to the discovery channel, the garden of eden is situated in todays Iran.

[TM87_Maniac]

I refuse to believe im originally from Congo lol

[Ronni]

I think there should be only one national team. All the best players in the world should make just one team....situated in the depths of Africa, near Congo, where the first humans appeared.


PERFECT #1 !!!!

We are all the same descent.

If people were able to understand this, things would be much easier.

Wtf is this question of nationality based on descent on football?

[PAO_HELLAS]

I think there should be only one national team. All the best players in the world should make just one team....situated in the depths of Africa, near Congo, where the first humans appeared.

Yes! That would be a planetary team not a national team. And then we will be able to particiapte at the "Milky Way cup". First game is at home with a planetary team from the Epsilon Eridani system.

What else we are going to hear.... :p

[son_of_a_Turk]

man New Zealand sucks. I mean they made South Africa look like Spain :D

[Željin Zmaj]

Yes! That would be a planetary team not a national team. And then we will be able to particiapte at the "Milky Way cup". First game is at home with a planetary team from the Epsilon Eridani system.

What else we are going to hear.... :p

Take a round trip for a million years to one galaxy for an away game. Our boys will be tired by then. Let's just let them have the 3-0 win.

[Ronni]

man New Zealand sucks. I mean they made South Africa look like Spain :D

At least no one will get to the idea of bringing them also to Asia in order to give them some real competition.
They commonly have problems already with the Solomon Is!

It's like with Mexico. Often they say they should belong to South America instead of Concacaf. But even Costa Rica seems to be too much for them!
The US have already left them behind many years ago.

This Confederations Cup shows very well the gaps that still exist between the different confederations. It's true that it's harder now, but at the end still Brazil wins against Egypt, Spain against Irak etc.

[Bosanac]

PERFECT #1 !!!!

We are all the same descent.

If people were able to understand this, things would be much easier.

Wtf is this question of nationality based on descent on football?


Well, the problem is the fact that players today seem to be choosing NT as they do club football. With no respect to ones 'descent', how can one have the pride that comes with NT football?

That is one of the things that have always separated club and NT football. However, it has become somewhat trivial when you see just how many players out there play for a NT which is not their own. Croatian and Turkish national teams field a Brazilian for crying out loud. It's disturbing..

[Xizor]

At least no one will get to the idea of bringing them also to Asia in order to give them some real competition.
They commonly have problems already with the Solomon Is!

It's like with Mexico. Often they say they should belong to South America instead of Concacaf. But even Costa Rica seems to be too much for them!
The US have already left them behind many years ago.

This Confederations Cup shows very well the gaps that still exist between the different confederations. It's true that it's harder now, but at the end still Brazil wins against Egypt, Spain against Irak etc.

That's a horrible comparison, USA is no better. They got their asses kicked by Costa Rica and tied against El Salvador in the qualifiers not to mention struggled against Honduras at home. Everything is pretty much even in the CONCACAF at this point. Mexico is just facing a bad time as all national teams face, plus the thing about Mexico joining the CONMEBOL qualifiers was debated over 5 years ago, kinda late there buddy.

[Ronni]

... the thing about Mexico joining the CONMEBOL qualifiers was debated over 5 years ago, kinda late there buddy.

I know this. And I know also that Mexico isn't in this moment that happy with Conmebol because of those Libertadores matches that south american teams didn't agree to play in Mexico when this flu was still unknown and restricted to Mexico. But anyway after menacing Conmebol of not participating on the Libertadores and on the Copa America - (I'm sure south americans wouldn't miss them!) - they got back, and want to participate on the Libertadores again next year.

My point was due to Australia's move.
Anyway showing that still there is a huge gap between the continents, and when one single federation shows up as having consistently a stronger NT than the others, the first thing people consider is to move ...

[Ronni]

That's a horrible comparison, USA is no better ...
Mexico is just facing a bad time as all national teams face ...

in the last 10 years Mexico and the US played each other 12 times.
And we have:
USA: 7 victories, 15 goals
Mexico: 1 victory, 5 goals

We're talking about 10 years.
This is not a phase. It's a trend!

[Ronni]

Well, the problem is the fact that players today seem to be choosing NT as they do club football. With no respect to ones 'descent', how can one have the pride that comes with NT football?

That is one of the things that have always separated club and NT football. However, it has become somewhat trivial when you see just how many players out there play for a NT which is not their own. Croatian and Turkish national teams field a Brazilian for crying out loud. It's disturbing..

I agree with you.
I remember last year during the Euro that almost everyday there was a brazilian playing ... as if Brazil would belong to Europe!
I think there were brazilians playing for Germany, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Croatia, Poland and I don't know which more.
I heard about Lippi calling also a brazilian (Amauri from Juve) to play for Italy in the next times.

Personally I understand these guys. If you don't have a perspective in your own NT and still have a chance to participate on an event like the WC or the Euro, why not?

Brazilians and some other nationals commonly don't have this kind of "pride" or nationalism that stick them to their own country - perhaps exactely because these nations weren't built upon a single folk.
And this is good! Specially in today's world.

In order not to lose the flair of the NTs due to lack of "fidelity" they could indeed establish a stronger rule than this current one of not being allowed to play for a different A-team after having played for the first one.
But race or descent isn't a solution at all. This is only stupid racism.
And in the history this stupid kind of thought has brought us only to hate and even wars.

It could be something like where the guy came out to soccer, where he was discovered etc.
I have no idea of how they would manage this. Anyway it's important also to stop transfers of young boys, but I agree with you that something has to be done.

Otherwise we'll get to the same strange situation as we have in table tennis, when in tournaments like the Olympics you see many countries playing each others, and the players are all called "Ling Ping", "Chow Wong", "Lin Tao" etc.
And the question is ... which chinese is the best one - the german, the argentine or the belgian? :lol:

[Bosanac]

Personally I understand these guys. If you don't have a perspective in your own NT and still have a chance to participate on an event like the WC or the Euro, why not?

This is not the only problem though. It has almost totally become like the club football. It's true that those who don't have a perspective in their own NT are instead opting to play for a weaker NT. However, when the weaker NT produce top quality players, they're losing them to power-houses. With young talents like Ozil playing for Germany, Rossi playing for Italy (although his nationality is debatable), or Ibrahimovic playing for Sweden. I do realize that Sweden isn't a power-house, but they still provide a better opportunity than Bosnia and Herzegovina.

This is really bad for International football. As I said before, you can not choose your Nation. Just like you can't choose your name, your parents do and that is the same as with the Nation you were born in.

There are players out there who are playing for a Nation where they haven't even resided more than 4-5 years!

I believe they should make a rule where you can 'not' actually choose to play for a Nation other than in the one you were born in, and if exceptions were to be made they would have to have a very strong case against it.

The Nations are practically cheating their way to success. What I can't really get through my head is that even if they do somehow win something with their 'foreigners', how can the citizens of that Country actually be proud of what they in reality didn't achieve?

International football is a reputable tradition, and all this is doing is destroying that tradition.

[Vipaman]

I agree with you.
I remember last year during the Euro that almost everyday there was a brazilian playing ... as if Brazil would belong to Europe!
I think there were brazilians playing for Germany, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, Croatia, Poland and I don't know which more.

Marcos Senna for Spain is Brazilian.
Pepe and Deco for Portugal
Eduardo for Croatia, but he didn't play because he was injured. Who is the Brazilian for Germany? To my knowledge, there is not one.



I heard about Lippi calling also a brazilian (Amauri from Juve) to play for Italy in the next times.

What Lippi said was that the Italy jersey can be second for no one in response to Amauri stating that he would love to play for Italy if Brazil didn't call him. Dunga later was upset with Amauri's agent trying to force him to call Amauri to Brazil by playing off that Italy was supposedly interested in him. Lippi has denied interest. It's all media hyperbole at it's finest. Other critics have said it's Amauri's agent paying for news stories so to force Dunga. Dunga says he hates agent involvement of this nature...smart men, both Dunga and Lippi. Dunga later did call Amauri but it was after the deadline, presumably so he wouldn't have to cop any negative remarks that he never wanted Amauri. At least now he could claim to have wanted him, but then not bringing him to the confed cup proves that neither he nor Lippi want the guy. In the end he'll play for neither. He's a good player, but not better than what either country have. I follow Juve, I know.



Brazilians and some other nationals commonly don't have this kind of "pride" or nationalism that stick them to their own country - perhaps exactely because these nations weren't built upon a single folk.
And this is good! Specially in today's world.

It's actually quite a shame. Why even call them national teams then? I understand that "nationalism" is now supposed to be bad, but it's still in the name 'national' team.



In order not to lose the flair of the NTs due to lack of "fidelity" they could indeed establish a stronger rule than this current one of not being allowed to play for a different A-team after having played for the first one.

News for you; it was done many many years ago.



But race or descent isn't a solution at all. This is only stupid racism.
And in the history this stupid kind of thought has brought us only to hate and even wars.

It could be something like where the guy came out to soccer, where he was discovered etc.
I have no idea of how they would manage this. Anyway it's important also to stop transfers of young boys, but I agree with you that something has to be done.

You sound a bit confused. You're ranting on two different issues it seems. When is it appropriate for one to play for another national team, when they are men and not boys? If it's good for the one and not the other sounds a little contradictory.

[Vipaman]

This is not the only problem though. It has almost totally become like the club football. It's true that those who don't have a perspective in their own NT are instead opting to play for a weaker NT. However, when the weaker NT produce top quality players, they're losing them to power-houses. With young talents like Ozil playing for Germany, Rossi playing for Italy (although his nationality is debatable), or Ibrahimovic playing for Sweden.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

How are Rossi's and Ibrahimovic's situations the same? Ibra is of Bosnian parents but raised in Sweden, learned in Sweden, played first div in Sweden all before moving to the Dutch league. Bosnia had nothing to do with his development, save for providing his heritage. Rossi, of the same token, was born of two Italian parents, but raised in football under his father who was a coach for a local college, but then went back to Italy at age 12 to further his development and then chose Italy to represent. It's not as if Ibrahimovic went back to Bosnia to further his development. Now, while Ibrahimovic could have chosen Bosnia, you're speaking as if him playing for Sweden is wrong. How so?




I do realize that Sweden isn't a power-house, but they still provide a better opportunity than Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Unlike Rossi, Ibrahimovic chose to play for the country of his birth. Rossi chose to play for the country of his heritage given his parents are both Italian, his Dad was his coach, and he left the US at 12 to go back to Italy and train with Parma as his Dad hooked up a neat gig there.

How are these the same?



This is really bad for International football. As I said before, you can not choose your Nation. Just like you can't choose your name, your parents do and that is the same as with the Nation you were born in.

Ibrahimovic was born in Sweden.



I believe they should make a rule where you can 'not' actually choose to play for a Nation other than in the one you were born in, and if exceptions were to be made they would have to have a very strong case against it.

Then you agree that Ibrahimovic should never play for Bosnia?

[Bosanac]

I never said they're in the exact same situation. I just used them as examples, and I probably could pull out a lot more out of my pocket.

The discussion you're trying to start there though have been done to death in this forum, by me, and I'm not going to entertain it once more.

In my opinion though, Ibrahimovic was born and raised by Bosnians and therefore he should have played for Bosnia. That is his 'descent'. This is one of those cases that I've earlier mentioned where a strong case could be made against the birth right rule I hope for.

I'm not really familiar with the Rossi situation, to be honest. He was born in the US and is playing for Italy, much like Ibra should've done. I guess they're opposites..

It's all rather confusing, with where players have been born versus who they actually are. I just wish they would come out with an ultimatum and decide the rule to be either one or the other as to stop players from 'deciding' who to play for.

They already have an option to decide which club they will play for, and giving them a decision for which NT they will play for is pushing it. Since that opens the window for a lot 'weirder' cases out there. Ibra and Rossi aside, Brazilians playing for Croatia or Turkey is just down right ridiculous. I wonder what kind of connection they have with the Countries they play for.

[~zero_signal~]

This is a bit of a philosophical issue. I would argue that hunger for power at an international level is predominantly what influences NTs to accept (or lure and snatch) players from other nationalities. Of course, this always depends on the context.

Argentina, throughout its football history, has been seriously hurt by this. Italy basically ended Argentina's chances of winning a WC in the 1930s by convincing their best players to play for Italy. Players like Luis Monti, Enrique Guaita, Raimundo Orsi and Attilio Demaria were all born and raised in Argentina, but played for Italy in the 1934 WC winning side.

Colombia did something similar to Argentina in 1949, as Argentina was finally building a generation strong enough to win a WC in the 1950s. The Colombian club, Los Millionarios, convinced a few Argentinian players to join the club, and used these players to win a long list of continental and international trophies. I'm talking about greats like Alfredo di Stefano and Adolfo Pedernera. Pedernera ended up going back to Argentina, but di Stefano played a short while for Colombia before being called up to represent Spain. A few other Argentinian players of this era went to play in Italy, and for Italy.

A number of countries here gained a lot at the expense of another. Today, if a country anywhere in the world can see the opportunity to 'fill a gap' or strengthen by calling up a Brazilian player, they'll take it. It may sound trivial, but in my view, the issue has to do with national pride vs. power.

[Ronni]

What I can't accept is the overestimation of people from nations that never won anything, some of them haven't even qualified to any important tournament, and still they consider their NT something special ...




Let's cut the formalities, Bosnians?



Bosnia, Monserrat, Anguilla ... these are indeed good examples.
:lol:
(sorry about that!)

[Bosanac]

This is a bit of a philosophical issue.

Thanks for clearing that up! :doh:



:silly:


A number of countries here gained a lot at the expense of another. Today, if a country anywhere in the world can see the opportunity to 'fill a gap' or strengthen by calling up a Brazilian player, they'll take it. It may sound trivial, but in my view, the issue has to do with national pride vs. power.

Exactly, hence me comparing the club football with todays International football. It's all becoming about 'power', with the things that actually matter being put in the shadow.

I do realize this has happened before, but never so much that it's actually started to bother me. I mean, let's have a look at Turkey for example. They are 'known' for their pride, and their passion for their own Country. How could they possibly swallow their whole belief system and field a foreigner?

It doesn't take a smart man to see where this is going. Just the way talented kids would go and sign for a major club to play at a young age, soon we'll have most young talent 'move' to another Country because their football is more advanced. :thumbsdow

..If it's not already happening.

[Bosanac]

Bosnia, Monserrat, Anguilla ... these are indeed good examples.
:lol:
(sorry about that!)

:nono:

Bosnia, as a part of Yugoslavia, have gone further than most Countries out there. I believe some respect is in order.

[Ronni]

Marcos Senna for Spain is Brazilian.
Pepe and Deco for Portugal
Eduardo for Croatia, but he didn't play because he was injured. Who is the Brazilian for Germany? To my knowledge, there is not one.

Perhaps you're right. I was thinking about Kuranyi, who was born in Rio and started playing soccer in a small local team there (I would have to look for the name). And as far as I remember, at the time of the Euro he wasn't in the German team any longer.
Anyway they had another one in the last years - Paulo Rink - and another one right now: Cacau.
So another big country importing other nationals (and brazilians aren't any exception in the german NT in the last years - there are others)

I think the brazilian turk in the Euro was Mehmet Aurelio, and the pole Guerreiro.



(Amauri) ... At least now he could claim to have wanted him, but then not bringing him to the confed cup proves that neither he nor Lippi want the guy. In the end he'll play for neither. He's a good player, but not better than what either country have.


I agree with you.
The guy thought he could chose between two important NTs. I hope he gets out of this with empty hands. Or perhaps playing for another nobody.



News for you; it was done many many years ago.


please read again what I wrote and you'll see that I mentioned this as some existing rule we should have a stronger one instead.




You sound a bit confused. You're ranting on two different issues it seems. When is it appropriate for one to play for another national team, when they are men and not boys? If it's good for the one and not the other sounds a little contradictory.

I just say that I agree with the players and with the teams that do this. They're looking their own side, and they're doing the best for themselves, so I can perfectly understand what they do.
I would do the same myself (ok, for me it would be easier, since I dont have any national identity).

I'm saying that for the game it's not good.

National teams shouldn't be there to prove that one race is better than the other.
It should show that the way of playing soccer in certain nations are more successful than in others.

South americans (ARG, BRA, URU) of italian descent play like south americans, not like italians.
Because you play soccer according to the way it is played where you started playing - and you keep most of your characteristics (not only on the game!) even after changing country as an adult.
This is the point.

It's not that the italian blood makes someone play better soccer than the spanish one or whatever.

[Ronni]

:nono:

Bosnia, as a part of Yugoslavia, have gone further than most Countries out there. I believe some respect is in order.

:D
I just wanted to contest exageration with some more exageration.
You know what I mean.
I really hope BIH qualifies to the WC.

[Bosanac]

South americans (ARG, BRA, URU) of italian descent play like south americans, not like italians.
Because you play soccer according to the way it is played where you started playing

That's not necessarily true. Have you ever heard of a thing called 'talent'? :rolleyes:



National teams shouldn't be there to prove that one race is better than the other.

Haha, wow..


Than please, tell me - what the hell would be the point of International Football?

That is what is in the back of every fans mind when they're watching NT football.

[Bosanac]

:D
I just wanted to contest exageration with some more exageration.

Hmm.. I didn't notice any exaggeration for you to contest your exaggeration with. :noidea:




:D

[Novemberrain81]

I am so sad and shamed and angry about US soccer team. It's just year after year let down. Only one goal scored in two games??? And that off of a penalty kick? This is just too much. Even Egypt and Iraq is playing better than USA.

[Xizor]

in the last 10 years Mexico and the US played each other 12 times.
And we have:
USA: 7 victories, 15 goals
Mexico: 1 victory, 5 goals

We're talking about 10 years.
This is not a phase. It's a trend!

How many of those games have been in the US?

How many have been played in Mexico?

Yeah that's what I thought, seems like you guys can't seem to win away from the US. Oh and try to at least advance to the next round of the Confederations Cup and maybe try beating a top ranked team for once.

2005 Confederations Cup Mexico vs. Brazil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5URjaGe4UhU

[devious]

WTF is going here?? isnt it the confederations cup 2009 thread?? Im confused!

[Željin Zmaj]

Bosnia, Monserrat, Anguilla ... these are indeed good examples.
:lol:
(sorry about that!)

Bullshit.

BiH > North American countries
BiH > South American countries except Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay

[PAO_HELLAS]

Anyone tired with these trumpets being heard in every Confederations Cup game? It has to be some South African custom or something but it is being heard during the WHOLE game and sounds like a billion flies are wandering over the field.

Imagine if they keep doing this in the WC next year :shocked:

[LindavG]

Anyone tired with these trumpets being heard in every Confederations Cup game? It has to be some South African custom or something but it is being heard during the WHOLE game and sounds like a billion flies are wandering over the field.

Imagine if they keep doing this in the WC next year :shocked:

Yes, there have been thousands of complaints with FIFA about those trumpets, it sounds like there's a swarm of bees flying over the microfone lol. Sometimes you can't even hear the commentator properly :dontcare: According to the NOS (Dutch state channel so very reliable) it is actually a tape that is played during the game to disguise the lack of fans in the stadium. But next year when the World Cup arrives there will be plenty of fans so I don't think we'll hear those annoying trumpets anymore :)

[LindavG]

Bullshit.

BiH > North American countries
BiH > South American countries except Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay

No way

Chili > Bosnia
Paraguay > Bosnia
Mexico > Bosnia (when Mex. plays to its abilities)
Ecuador/Colombia/US = Bosnia

Stop overrating your team.

And back to topic. Why is it that in every single thread I visit I see you gloating about Bosnia :rolleyes: I'm sure I'm not the only one that's annoyed by it. Try not to bring Bosnia into every discussion, as far as I know they're not competing in the Confederations Cup.

[Xizor]

Egypt 1-0 Italy halftime

[Musicá]

Yes, there have been thousands of complaints with FIFA about those trumpets, it sounds like there's a swarm of bees flying over the microfone lol. Sometimes you can't even hear the commentator properly :dontcare: According to the NOS (Dutch state channel so very reliable) it is actually a tape that is played during the game to disguise the lack of fans in the stadium. But next year when the World Cup arrives there will be plenty of fans so I don't think we'll hear those annoying trumpets anymore :)
Lol that's bullcrap. Africa is known for its dance, rhytm and music. It's a local tradition to sound the vuvuzela, a sort of trumpet.
Unlike your so called "reliable Dutch state channel", ours actually sent an reporter to South Africa to make a report about the vuvuzelas.

[LindavG]

Lol that's bullcrap. Africa is known for its dance, rhytm and music. It's a local tradition to sound the vuvuzela, a sort of trumpet.
Unlike your so called "reliable Dutch state channel", ours actually sent an reporter to South Africa to make a report about the vuvuzelas.

I think you misunderstood my post, or maybe I didn't say it clearly. I didn't mean all the sound comes from the tape. Obviously there are a lot of fans who bring vuvuzelas to the stadium and there was a report about it being an African tradition on Dutch TV as well. But the sound is amplified by the tape to disguise the fact that there are few fans in the stadium.

[Xizor]

Dam Egypt is playing good!

[Musicá]

I think you misunderstood my post, or maybe I didn't say it clearly. I didn't mean all the sound comes from the tape. Obviously there are a lot of fans who bring vuvuzelas to the stadium and there was a report about it being an African tradition on Dutch TV as well. But the sound is amplified by the tape to disguise the fact that there are few fans in the stadium.

Oh okay. Yeah, you could of made it a little clearer :lol:

[Željin Zmaj]

Egypt really surprised me. Now I see why they won the African cup.

[Željin Zmaj]

Egypt 1-0 Italy

Lindav is probably really really upset, :). She hates it when big and popular teams lose.

[Xizor]

What the hell, I go to give it to Egypt. They player way better then Italy.

[Željin Zmaj]

They were so compact in every position. No one made mistakes or anything like that. They were a more secure team than Italy and I think they deserved this win. Hopefully they can beat USA as well and Brazil beats Italy so then Egypt can go through, because I want to see this team go all the way.

Iraq btw, surprised me and alot of other people. I think they did way more than was expected from them against Spain. I doubt Japan, S. Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, N. Korea, etc. would've done better than Iraq when it came to facing Spain.

As for USA, I hope everyone understands now how overrated their team really was. Come on, #14 or wherever they are in FIFA Rankings, that's total bullshit. I think 35 or lower is fair for a team of that caliber.

[LindavG]

Egypt 1-0 Italy

Lindav is probably really really upset, :). She hates it when big and popular teams lose.

LOL why?

[Xizor]

As for USA, I hope everyone understands now how overrated their team really was. Come on, #14 or wherever they are in FIFA Rankings, that's total bullshit. I think 35 or lower is fair for a team of that caliber.

Dude we all know USA can't win outside of the US. It's a proven fact, any time they play a high ranked team they end up getting their asses kicked. The analysts and critics here in the US gloat to much just because they beat Barbados and Haiti but when it comes down to playing against the top teams they get proven how weak they really are. Sure they play good football, I've said it before. But they just can't handle a top team such as Italy or Brazil. I guess the only victories they will always gloat about is those matches against Mexico, assuming they are in the US because if they are played in the Azteca, they have no chance there.

[Xizor]

And as for Mexico. I think they'd be a better team if they actually field all their key players because I always see some players that I've never see before fielded for Mexico, and the coaches are usually doing a poor job. The quality's there though. Mexico is still the best in North America no matter how good Costa Rica, USA, Honduras, ect. do.

Yeah unfortunately after Hugo Sanchez became our coach we started having all these problems. They followed through with Sven-Göran Eriksson, that's when new players started emerging into the national team. Our current head coach is Javier Aguirre, he's a good coach, took us to the 2002 World Cup. But anyways check out the Mexico vs. USA qualifying match in August, it should be a good one, and it will be played in Mexico City.

[Xizor]

Hopefully Mexico beats USA, because I know they are the better team. I want that kid down the street to shut his mouth already saying that USA is much better than Mexico even though he's never played football in his life nor does he even keep track of it.

We'll do good, you'll see. The US is no match for a Mexican team in good form and free of injuries especially playing at home. Oh yeah I have this friend just like that, he actually had the balls to say USA would win the Confederations Cup. Anyways :focus:

[Željin Zmaj]

Ok, seeing that you guys cannot give me anything to make me believe BiH is worse than teams like Chile, let's get back on topic to save each other's times.

[Xizor]

Okay I was cool with people bringing up matches and teams that are not related to the Confederations Cup but now you guys took it to far by starting up conversations about religion and stuff. Enough of that.. :mod:

[LindavG]

Anyway well done to Egypt :thumbsup: I can see them finishing ahead of Italy, looking at the upcoming fixtures:

Sunday June 21
Italy - Brazil
Egypt - United States

[Željin Zmaj]

Italy 1-1 Brazil
Egypt 1-0 USA

[Željin Zmaj]

El Hadari - 10: This is one of the few 10's ever awarded on Goal.com. El Hadari single-handedly won the game for Egypt with countless world class saves. Of those that stood out, he denied Iaquinta three times, Montolivo and Rossi once - all of them stunning stops.

[Željin Zmaj]

I like everything about this Egyptian side I've seen in the last couple of games. The whole side is compact, boiling with confidence, and are very good individually when it comes to controlling and passing the ball. My favorite Egyptian player is Mohamed Zidan. I watched the Bundesliga game when he scored that sick goal where he dribbled the whole defense and blasted a shot in from far out.

When you play against a big side like Italy, Spain, Brazil, ect., the most important thing to note is to avoid defending because that's when you lose because you give the opponent the possession and time/space to evaluate what they'll do with the ball. The Egyptians didn't give the Italians room and you can tell they were hungry for a goal, risking a swift Italian counterattack. A fun team to watch is always an underdog that attacks and attacks instead of defending. Reminds me of the Hoffenheim during the 1st half season of the Bundesliga.

[devious]

I like everything about this Egyptian side I've seen in the last couple of games. The whole side is compact, boiling with confidence, and are very good individually when it comes to controlling and passing the ball. My favorite Egyptian player is Mohamed Zidan. I watched the Bundesliga game when he scored that sick goal where he dribbled the whole defense and blasted a shot in from far out.

When you play against a big side like Italy, Spain, Brazil, ect., the most important thing to note is to avoid defending because that's when you lose because you give the opponent the possession and time/space to evaluate what they'll do with the ball. The Egyptians didn't give the Italians room and you can tell they were hungry for a goal, risking a swift Italian counterattack. A fun team to watch is always an underdog that attacks and attacks instead of defending. Reminds me of the Hoffenheim during the 1st half season of the Bundesliga.

Good reading for the Egyption philosohy.. good to see some on-topic posts on this thread anyway. :) ..
Not posting my thoughts about the competition here for that reason.. Im posting it in the Italian forum section..there is a thread there that actully discuss the torunment.

[VitezBiH]

The name of the thread is Confederations Cup 2009. Xizor has warned you guys several times already, and this is the last straw.

Warnings and bans will follow, especially for the ethnic/political conversations that aren't necessary, especially in a thread such as this one.

Nermin, SOAT, Linda, I'm looking at you!


:focus:

[Željin Zmaj]

As soon as Xizor warned us, I stopped, :smoking:.

No games today, :worried:.

[Željin Zmaj]

(Vermaelen signed with Arsenal)

:D

[Xizor]

Things will resume today. I'll post match-ups, they should be sort of interesting but the ones on Sunday should be the best ones.

[Xizor]

Round 3
Saturday June 20, 2009
Iraq vs. New Zealand

[Xizor]

Round 3
Saturday June 20, 2009
Spain vs. South Africa

[Xizor]

Both games will be played simultaneously.

[Xizor]

0-0 halftime in both matches.

[Xizor]

If I were Rossi, I would have chosen the United States rather than Italy.

Why is that?

[LindavG]

Spain is already qualified for the SF right?

Edit: 2000 posts whooo :D

[Xizor]

Yeah Spain is already in. I think Iraq and South Africa are the two teams still in the hunt.

Congrats by the ways Linda. =]

[zeppos]

Yeah Spain is already in. I think Iraq and South Africa are the two teams still in the hunt.

Congrats by the ways Linda. =]
She pregnant?

[LindavG]

She pregnant?

You should know, Zeppos :eyebrows:

lol no he congratulated me on my 2000 posts, it's quite an achievement ;)

[zeppos]

You should know, Zeppos :eyebrows:

lol no he congratulated me on my 2000 posts, it's quite an achievement ;)
Oh :doh:

Had a little panic for a moment...

[Xizor]

Idk about that, maybe. lol

I was talking congratulating her on her post count.

Anyways games are starting back up, man I hope Iraq qualifies to the next round.

[VitezBiH]

I want Iraq to qualify as well but NZ are looking more dangerous on the ball at the moment.

[LindavG]

Villa 1-0 after missing a penalty!

[LindavG]

I want Iraq to qualify as well but NZ are looking more dangerous on the ball at the moment.

:lol:

[Cole Train]

Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem,

Hopefully Iraq will beat New Zealend. Anyway, what happens if Iraq ends up winning 2-0 and South Africa loses 1-0. Will they be forced to play an extra game?

Wait, I just found out that a Fifa committee would have to draw lots in that case.

[Xizor]

It took 20 seconds for Villa to recuperate his goal after missing the PK. lol

[LindavG]

Llorente makes it 2-0 for Spain.

[VitezBiH]

:lol:

?

[Xizor]

Spain 2-0 South Africa

Iraq 0-0 New Zealand

Spain and South Africa advance.

[LindavG]

?

Nothing, just the idea that New Zealand is looking dangerous on the ball made me laugh :p

[VitezBiH]

Nothing, just the idea that New Zealand is looking dangerous on the ball made me laugh :p

How dare you? NZ are the superpower of Oceania. Not even your precious Vanuatu can defeat them.

[LindavG]

How dare you? NZ are the superpower of Oceania. Not even your precious Vanuatu can defeat them.

No way, NZ look like amateurs compared to American Samoa :smoking:

[VitezBiH]

No way, NZ look like amateurs compared to American Samoa :smoking:

Well... I can't argue with that.

[LindavG]

Spain 2-0 South Africa

Iraq 0-0 New Zealand

Spain and South Africa advance.

Nothing surprising there. Good that South Africa is in the SF, its always nicer when the host is still in the competition :)

[Raul_Madrid#7]

I would like to see Spain vs Egypt semi final and Spain Vs Brazil final.

Casillas, Ramos vs Kaka lol

[LindavG]

Brazil 3-0 Italy at HT :D

[Xizor]

OMG Brazil is kicking ass right now.

[Xizor]

If both matches ended just like they are right now, Brazil and Egypt would qualify to the next round.

[Željin Zmaj]

Can anyone else imagine Egypt's goalkeeper at Bayern Munich? Sublime goalkeeping always seen from this guy. Last game against Italy, he received a 10/10 rating, best ever in goal.com

[Xizor]

Egypt in general has a great starting eleven, you can tell they've been playing with each other for some time now. Unfortunate that they're losing right now but I think they can tie it back up.

[~zero_signal~]

Absolute ownage by Brazil at the moment. Regardless of the final score, I'm somewhat content with this result. Now people should know what it feels like for South American NTs to play Brazil.

They're up by 3 and they've hit the post twice. When Brazil plays this well, it matters little if you're from the UEFA or CONMEBOL zone.

[Željin Zmaj]

I want to see Brazil v. Spain, the two best :D

I think Brazil is starting it's non-beating streak of its own. Spain on the other hand broke historical record of non-beating streak AND winning streak.

PS: Why isn't Mohammed Zidan playing?

[Xizor]

I think Brazil could totally beat Spain at this point. You see Brazil plays well when it matters, Robinho and Kaka are making it complicated for those Italian defenders.

[Musicá]

El-Hadary was great in all the previous matches, but right now USA is leading 1-0 and to be honest, he can be faulted for it.

#1, Zidan got injured against Italy. That's probably why USA is leading though.

[Xizor]

More then likely but the goal the US made was off a mistake from the GK and defense. Brazil just needs to keep the same result or keep scoring more goals to give Egypt a chance to advance.

[Musicá]

Just doing a little Confederations cup reports here
55' In the second half Italy has looked better. They send waves and waves of attack against Brazil, but the Brazilians defend very well and Julio Cesar has been great in goal.
75' Brazil has gotten a grip of the match again and are attacking in small waves against Italy.
Italy might still produce a number of goalchances and have plenty of time to score another goal.

Also USA just scored another goal against Egypt.
EDIT: USA scores a third goal against Egypt, taking them to second place. Egypt slides all the way down to FOURTH place

Current situation:
Brazil 1st.
USA 2nd.
Italy 3rd.
Egypt 4th.

Italy 0 - Brazil 3 . If Italy scores, they're 2nd.
USA 3 - Egypt 0 . USA is currently in second place

[PAO_HELLAS]

3-0. I wouldn't expect such a conclusion in Egypt's good appearances in this tournament but the absense of Zidan is decisive as it looks like.

[Xizor]

So it's between USA and Egypt now? Wtf?

[Xizor]

Actually with these results USA and Brazil are qualifying! :shocked:

[VitezBiH]

Haha, Brazil spanking the old men from Italy


Nice, come on U.S. pull this one out :smoking:

[Xizor]

USA does not deserve to be in the Semis I'll tell you that.

[VitezBiH]

USA does not deserve to be in the Semis I'll tell you that.

Meh, who cares, at least Italy isn't making it :p

[DinoMostarac]

I was looking foward to having an African team advance, but USA is playing very well today. Egypt is playing without Mohammed Zidan, and you can tell it by the gap left in attack, but I still credit USA for taking advantage of the situation and putting themselves in a position to advance.

[Xizor]

Spain will kick USA's ass! :evil:

[LindavG]

Spain will kick USA's ass! :evil:

God I hope so.

And wtf is up with Italy? First they lose to Egypt and then they get thrashed by Brazil? I was hoping Egypt would go through but it's the USA, I really didn't expect that lol :p

[VitezBiH]

God I hope so.

And wtf is up with Italy? First they lose to Egypt and then they get thrashed by Brazil? I was hoping Egypt would go through but it's the USA, I really didn't expect that lol :p

:lol:

[PAO_HELLAS]

Egypt have demolished what they built with a good effort in their two previous games. I would like to see Brazil and Egypt going through, but USA deserved the win today.

[DinoMostarac]

Spain will kick USA's ass! :evil:

Hey, you never know. Spain will most likely win, but USA is riding pretty hard after their remarkable win and entry, and will be charged up and ready to go and just might surprise us all.

[devious]

Egypt was shit today.. very awful performance.. US deserves this to go through.. I seriously was so terrified from the idea of facing Spain.. so US deserves the win.. GO USA! :D

[Xizor]

Hey, you never know. Spain will most likely win, but USA is riding pretty hard after their remarkable win and entry, and will be charged up and ready to go and just might surprise us all.

Come on dude, they proved how well they do against top ranked teams.....nothing. Spain will be no exception, Spain 4-0 USA.

[Musicá]

Well the semifinals are:

Brazil - South Africa

USA - Spain

[Ronni]

Meh, who cares, at least Italy isn't making it :p

Yessssss!
What feels better for a fan of good soccer than to see the masters of "don't play yourself but first of all don't let them play" sink this way?

:evil: Priceless !!!! :evil:

I'm sorry Egypt is out. But who wastes the chance Brazil gave them - to be able to finish down on 2 goals against "power house" USA - doesn't deserve to qualify to anything.

[DinoMostarac]

Come on dude, they proved how well they do against top ranked teams.....nothing. Spain will be no exception, Spain 4-0 USA.

Well, they gave Italy plenty of trouble before being a man down, and were even leading 1-0 halftime, and they just beat a very good Egyptian squad 3-0. I'm not saying USA will beat Spain or anything, I'm just saying that at this point they have the ability to surprise some people, that's all.

[RealMadrid43v3r]

:lol: Italy=fail!

I can't wait for us to play U.S and then Brazil! :D

lets keep it on the confeds cup please.
att:valda

[valdanito]

lol to italy!

[Željin Zmaj]

El-Hadary was great in all the previous matches, but right now USA is leading 1-0 and to be honest, he can be faulted for it.

#1, Zidan got injured against Italy. That's probably why USA is leading though.

If you watch the replay, it was an Egyptian defender that knocked him from behind when he was about to catch the ball. He caught it but spilled it thereafter because of the defender that accidentally knocked him from his behind. It was the defender's fault and the 3 defenders around Davies who couldn't get the ball away.

I realized how many crosses Egypt made throughout the game...probably around 20+, and no one could finish it. I think the difference of this game would've been Mohammed Zidan because had he played, he would've finished at least 1 IMO.

But it's no worries, this is football. Egypt showed the world that they can play fine football and sometimes shit happens. I would like to see USA go far but IMO, the team just doesn't have any quality, at all.

Could any of you tell me why Mido or Zaki didn't play? Zidan is better than both of these two but I'm just curious.


I think Brazil could totally beat Spain at this point. You see Brazil plays well when it matters, Robinho and Kaka are making it complicated for those Italian defenders.

Don't push it. Spain is the best in the world. Spain's bench warming starting 11 has David Silva, Cesc Fabregas, Senna, ect.

[Ronni]

Don't push it. Spain is the best in the world. Spain's bench warming starting 11 has David Silva, Cesc Fabregas, Senna, ect.

I perfectly agree that Spain is currently the best team in the world.
The problem with Brazil is that when they enter a match not as favorites to win it, what doesn't happen that often, they turn out to be much more difficult to beat than if they think they already have the victory in their hands.

The point is: Spain is ready for the WC. Brazil is still far away from that, and Italy today opened a question of whether they'll ever get ready for 2010.

I just hope for Spain that they don't get their zenit in this Confederations Cup, and start fading then. Now they're also ready to finally win the WC, and I'd give them this.

Whoever wins this Confederations Cup will come out as the big favorites for the WC. And I bet that the history will repeat itself, and this team won't win the WC.
So let's hope the US wins the Confederations Cup :D.
I would be happy either with Spain or with Brazil as champions in 2010.

[Željin Zmaj]

Watch Spain win Euro, Confederations, and WC.

Xavi, Iniesta, and other Spaniards there will be the most successful players ever lol. CL, La Liga, Spanish Cup, Euro, Confederations, WC, and also Super Cup (confident that Barca will beat Shakhtar).

[RealMadrid43v3r]

I apologize again Val

As far as the Confed. Cup goes, I'm very confident we will beat Brazil! It's a shame Iniesta will not play though

[BavarianRed]

Well the semifinals are:

Brazil - South Africa

USA - Spain

And than finals Brazil-Spain, to dam obvious...:rolleyes:

[Željin Zmaj]

This is just Spain's warm-up for the World Cup. Everybody knows that.

[samnite]

Come on dude, they proved how well they do against top ranked teams.....nothing. Spain will be no exception, Spain 4-0 USA.


Spain will kick USA's ass! :evil:

They probably will, but don't forget last year's matchup where we went to Spain and lost 1-0. This game happened right before Spain played in the Euros and we were without Landon Donovan. I'd say we've regressed some since last year but if we can find the form we had last year hopefully we won't get run off the field and can make it a watchable game.

[Ronni]

Watch Spain win Euro, Confederations, and WC.

Xavi, Iniesta, and other Spaniards there will be the most successful players ever lol. CL, La Liga, Spanish Cup, Euro, Confederations, WC, and also Super Cup (confident that Barca will beat Shakhtar).

You forgot the FIFA Club World Championship to be played next winter, that I imagine Barça should win as well (although the last time they won the CL they couldn't get it).

For the Confed Cup they're also very close to it.
But for the WC there's still a very, very long way to go.

Just have a look on the past. The team that is in the best form one year before the tournament, is considered the team with the best players, and even win other tournaments, commonly doesn't win the WC.
There are too many candidates. And even if Spain get there as favorites, their chances of getting the title won't be calculated as more than 20%.

Let's wait and see ...

[Željin Zmaj]

Lmao all those trophies and I can't even get one of them, :worried:.

[Musicá]

Could any of you tell me why Mido or Zaki didn't play? Zidan is better than both of these two but I'm just curious.


One of them was cut from the team because the Egyptian coach didn't think he was good enough (Mido i think) and the other one is injured.

[dannymex]

Watch Spain win Euro, Confederations, and WC.

oh this is going to happen for sure, i know it

[Ronni]

oh this is going to happen for sure, i know it

Is your crystal ball better than the ones of people who had also previewed "for sure" that Brazil would win the WC 2006, and that 2002 would be between France and Argentina?

Even if Spain are the favorites, the chances that they don't win the WC is higher than that they win.

Give Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Italy, France and Holland only 8% chances each, and 2% chances to each of the next 5 strong teams, and you already have 58%.
With 42% chances, Spain would have more than 5 times as much probabilities than each of these big ones (what I already consider absurd!), and still it would be more likely (58%) that they don't win than that they do (42%).

There are too many teams with some chances.
That's why any "for sure" here is just insane.

[~zero_signal~]

The circumstances for Spain are much different this time. Spain has always produced good NTs in the past for WCs, but they have always under-achieved. This Spanish NT is different though -- they have never had a NT like this before. Never. It is overflowing with quality. What's more is that this one has overcome the psychological barrier of the past, being the everpresent fact that Spain had not yet won a big tournament in the modern era. They have done that now.

WC favouritism counts for little, but I think that Spain's chances are better than most. Brazil will also continue to improve before the WC comes.

[Ronni]

I perfectly agree with you when you say that this is the best spanish side ever, and perhaps even from the mental point of view it's different.

But this doesn't bring that much - to say they have more than 50% chances of winning 2010.

France and Argentina had everything at their side in 2002.
And Brazil in 2006.
And still they didn't win.

And I would even say that one year before the tournament, Argentina and France in 2002 and Brazil in 2006 were even more feared than Spain this time!

Just to make you remember ...
At this point 8 years ago, Argentina had just won (all away!) against Italy, Mexico, Chile, Peru, Colombia, Spain, and tied England.
And what did they do in the WC? They were eliminated in the first round.
France and Brazil reached these two WCs as the reigning champions of everything - continental, confed cup, AND World Cup.
Brazil still got a 5th place, but France wasn't able to score even once!

It's very complicated to make such certain prognostics.

Let's see how Spain play Brazil (if both qualify to the finals on Sunday).
And more than that, how they perform in the last qualifying matches, and on the tests previous to the WC.

In this moment I would give them about 20% chances of winning WC 2010.
And this is already good!

[Xizor]

Brazil will beat South Africa, everyone will say "oh they're going to lose to Spain because they're ranked number 1 and Spain beat a tougher opponent then Brazil" then the final will be Spain-Brazil and Brazil will win 4-0 against Spain.

[Željin Zmaj]

Brazil hasn't been beaten in the last 14 games so they're in some sort of non-losing streak as well.

It'd be nice to see who will crack between the two...Spain or Brazil.

But I just don't see Brazil beating Spain over 2-0...nor vice-versa. It would be a close match. I'd say it'll end 1-1 with a penalty shootout to decide it (6-5 for Spain).

[Ronni]

Indeed although Brazil is still beginning their way to 2010 while Spain has already a proved team, they had also impressive results in the last 6 months.
Besides this 3-0 against Italy, they had that 4-0 away in Uruguay, a 6-2 against Portugal and another 2-0 against Italy in London (when they stopped Lippi's unbeaten streak).

I do think they could beat Spain, although I don't believe this will already happen. In one year from now I think this can be much more likely.

Anyway I just hope that the team that wins this title don't think they have the WC in their hands, like Brazil did 4 years ago.

We shouldn't forget that the Confed Cup winner never got the succeding WC!

[Željin Zmaj]

If USA wins today, my club teammate will talk forever.

Spain 3-0 USA is how it's going to be.

[Axessinho]

Hahhaahhahha usa 1-0

[BavarianRed]

damn usa is actually leading 1-0, i think i might go blind soon, i dont think this score is correct?

[TM87_Maniac]

no way in hell they win this, Spain will score 2 before its all said and done

[Željin Zmaj]

I'll never watch football again if USA wins.

Jozy Altidore is the worst player I've ever seen on TV and yet he scored the goal. Now DZ will think he's actually a good player.

[DinoMostarac]

I told you guys that the USA could surprise some people. I'm not saying they will win, but they put them selves in a very good situation to get to the finals.

[Željin Zmaj]

USA is overrated. Davies, Altidore, Bornstein, DeMerit, all of that is 2nd rate talent.

[TM87_Maniac]

come on Espana!!!

[TM87_Maniac]

O...m....f....g

[PAO_HELLAS]

:lol:

[Bosnias Finest]

omg 2-0

[Željin Zmaj]

:laugh:

[RealMadrid43v3r]

I think I'm going to have a heart attack

[VitezBiH]

2-0 USA :D

My favorite U.S play Dempsey with the goal :)

[RealMadrid43v3r]

watch South Africa beat Brazil tomorrow :lol:

I cannot believe this..

[VitezBiH]

watch South Africa beat Brazil tomorrow :lol:

I cannot believe this..

Believe brother, believe :D

[Bosnias Finest]

youle see this hole week on espn and fox soccer chanel is gona be about how usa beat spain

[VitezBiH]

youle see this hole week on espn and fox soccer chanel is gona be about how usa beat spain

Not over yet. U.S. just got a red card.

[RealMadrid43v3r]

Best of luck to U.s

Good thing I'll be going on a trip tomorrow, no need to think about this.

[TM87_Maniac]

come on!!! 2 goals in 2 minutes isn't impossible!

[Željin Zmaj]

Ignorant Americans who have no idea who think Adu, Donovan, Altidore, ect. are better than Torres, Messi, ect. will brag about this game for decades. Great job Spain, you ruined the world.

USA just raped football itself.

I lost all respect for the Spanish NT. I think I speak for the Spanish fans when I say: "***k you Spain".

Spain just embarrassed the European people with this game. Costa Rica and Honduras outplay USA but Spain gets whooped. Humiliation at its worst.

[Željin Zmaj]

And I wanted to say this to Howard/Onyewu for a long long time:

***k you.

[VitezBiH]

Very nice job by the U.S. :ronaldo::ronaldo:

[Željin Zmaj]

Not only did USA do the inevitable when they passed the group stage when everyone in the world would say it was 0.001% chance to go through, they also beat the #1 in the world. Damn lucky ass Americans. Lucky at everything.

[RealMadrid43v3r]

Ignorant Americans who have no idea who think Adu, Donovan, Altidore, ect. are better than Torres, Messi, ect. will brag about this game for decades. Great job Spain, you ruined the world.

USA just raped football itself.

I lost all respect for the Spanish NT. I think I speak for the Spanish fans when I say: "***k you Spain".

Spain just embarrassed the European people with this game. Costa Rica and Honduras outplay USA but Spain gets whooped. Humiliation at its worst.

omg shut the ***k up, seriously. Where you from? do you have balls to tell me?

[RealMadrid43v3r]

If I expect anyone to say something, that would be americans.

[VitezBiH]

Not only did USA do the inevitable when they passed the group stage when everyone in the world would say it was 0.001% chance to go through, they also beat the #1 in the world. Damn lucky ass Americans. Lucky at everything.

Nermin, give some credit to the U.S for pulling off an incredible victory. Yes, they were lucky to get out of the group stages, but their victories against Egypt and Spain proved that their a force to be recconed with.

[TM87_Maniac]

Spain just disgraced the European name

[Bosnias Finest]

this is truly ebarasing todays practice is gona suck cuzz all im gona hear is how usa beat spain

[Axessinho]

:lol:! Now spain know how it feels to play better and still loose :lol:

[RealMadrid43v3r]

Again, Best of LuCk to U.S

This is what happens when you are over confident. Let that be a lesson to the National team for next year. I'd rather have us miss out on the Confed. cup than the World Cup.

[Željin Zmaj]

It's going to be impossible to convince Americans that their team isn't really good.

Spain just disgraced European name.

I'm just going to go to a water park, use my strudel and ***k some pies up their candy asses for enjoyment.

[Ronni]

I think that nothing could be better for Spain in terms of WC 2010 than to be defeated during this Confed Cup.

Now I believe even more that they can win it next year.

They're not less impressive now as they were a couple of hours ago.
But now they know themselves that they can be defeated ... even by the US.

This way they'll enter the tournament next year with a completely different mentality.


Anyway ... today I remembered Raul :lol:

[Ronni]

Spain just disgraced the European name

Why?
In the last edition of the Confed Cup the european champions did much worse than the current european champions did this time!

[Željin Zmaj]

Why?
In the last edition of the Confed Cup the european champions did much worse than the current european champions did this time!

NO NO NO!!

you don't get it. It's about dignity we're talking about here. Americans will forever say they're better than Europeans at everything. They don't even know their own players like Altidore but they'll say he's better than Messi. WHO CARES about competition.....what matters is US Soccer beat Futbol De Espana.

[TM87_Maniac]

Why?
In the last edition of the Confed Cup the european champions did much worse than the current european champions did this time!

its all about dignity the Euro champs should never lose to USA, it is simply unacceptable,, im sorry

[TM87_Maniac]

actually im not sorry

USA ***king sucks and Spain not only disgraced Espana but they disgraced Europe as a continent

[Saraj Fanatico]

Spain played without the slightest underestimation of the US. What happened is luck was on the American side and as was Ramos apparently. LOL!