Italy opposes UN permanent seat for Germany

[nachi88]

here is some shocking news... the Italian leadership doesnt want us ( Germans) to get a permanent seat in the security council of the UN. This inspite of us doing many favours to them while formation of common currency like, agreeing to devalue the euro in 1999, so that Italians and other countries with an intrinsically weaker currency dont loose much. This is backstabbing to the ultimate extent. Shame on them.Berlusconi should maybe only concentrate on AC Milan and leave politics to some one smarter.

here are news links (some are a bit old, but relevant)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/3693802.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3689796.stm
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/reform/italy.htm

[Hercegovac]

here is some shocking news... the Italian leadership doesnt want us ( Germans) to get a permanent seat in the security council of the UN. This inspite of us doing many favours to them while formation of common currency like, agreeing to devalue the euro in 1999, so that Italians and other countries with an intrinsically weaker currency dont loose much. This is backstabbing to the ultimate extent. Shame on them.Berlusconi should maybe only concentrate on AC Milan and leave politics to some one smarter.

here are news links (some are a bit old, but relevant)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/3693802.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3689796.stm
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/reform/italy.htm

I think Germany should get it they are the central hub of Europe. I think that it has to do with ww2 still- maybe you can enlighten me on this because i herd that Germans had to pay reparations to the Jews till the year 2000 and that they can never have an army of more than 100,000 soldiers is this true still today?, if so i would say that is totally biased and Italians should stick to eating pizza and not to bring old dust back to the air. Lol dont tell me that English political scum have anything to do with this? might be that Carla Del Ponte has said noooo Germany is too good to Croatia dont give them control of anything, u did hear that Germany, Austria, Poland i think and Hungary all agree Croatia should start accession talks with the EU But shi should keep her nose in the courts not the leadership if anything then shi can get sacked!.

[arminius]

The U.N is a totally worthless organisation, while the U.S went against international law and invaded iraq without a valid reason this hopeless federation stood by and watched, powerless to do anything.
Also it dosn't surprise me berlusconi's government would oppose germany becoming a permanent member, that clown's made racist comments about germany in the past.

[offtheline]

I definitely think that Germany and India should get two of the new spots in the security council. I am not so sure that Brazil really needs representation just yet. They are still a quickly developing country but in 10 or 15 years they may require a seat. Some nations like south korea are opposed to Japan's entry into the council.

Italy's denial of Germany's seat is interesting because Italy did not apply for a seat themselves. I think that it all comes down to politics and Italy does not want another country in the european union above them in terms of power.

... and I really don't think this has anything to do with WWII.

[nachi88]

The U.N is a totally worthless organisation, while the U.S went against international law and invaded iraq without a valid reason this hopeless federation stood by and watched, powerless to do anything.
Also it dosn't surprise me berlusconi's government would oppose germany becoming a permanent member, that clown's made racist comments about germany in the past.

the question here, is not if the UN is a worthless organisation or not... that may be true :D .
But why does a fellow EU country want to block us from getting the permanent seat in security council with veto power. I am still not sure what has made the Italian govt. to act in this way. Maybe berlusconi is jealous of der mannschaft :D

US accounts for 25% of UN's budget, followed by Japan at 19% and Germany at 10%. It is but natural that these two should also be given more powers.These countries (Germany and Japan are 3rd and 2nd economic world powers right now) Also India , with 1 billion people is a significant country.It is a big regional player. Brasil definately is significant ( largest catholic country, and largest and most resoucefull country in south america). The idea of Nigeria getting a seat also sounds fair as it will give africa a fair share of represntation and also since Nigeria has a substansial islamic community, that will also be represented.

Enlarging UN might actually save it, as more people might actually be represnted, and not feel isolated by it.

Gott mit uns

PS: I dont think this has anything to do with WWII.

[arminius]

the question here, is not if the UN is a worthless organisation or not... that may be true :D .
But why does a fellow EU country want to block us from getting the permanent seat in security council with veto power. I am still not sure what has made the Italian govt. to act in this way. Maybe berlusconi is jealous of der mannschaft :D

US accounts for 25% of UN's budget, followed by Japan at 19% and Germany at 10%. It is but natural that these two should also be given more powers.These countries (Germany and Japan are 3rd and 2nd economic world powers right now) Also India , with 1 billion people is a significant country.It is a big regional player. Brasil definately is significant ( largest catholic country, and largest and most resoucefull country in south america). The idea of Nigeria getting a seat also sounds fair as it will give africa a fair share of represntation and also since Nigeria has a substansial islamic community, that will also be represented.

Enlarging UN might actually save it, as more people might actually be represnted, and not feel isolated by it.

Gott mit uns

PS: I dont think this has anything to do with WWII.
The fact that germany and japan, as u said the world's number 2 and 3 economies are still not represented tells me this has everything to do with ww2.....though i doubt this is berlusconi's reason, probably has more to do with seeing germany as europe's major player and dosn't want to give them even more international influence.
Also the two governments had very different views over the whole iraq affair........or maybe it is just a complex over der mannschaft, jk.

[Toke-E-Yo]

this is BS, im sorry but Italy has really gone down in my list

First they fire Ahn Jung Hwan from Perugia in 2002, because he scored the winning goal against Italy

and now this?

Unacceptable, who does Italy think they are?

[nachi88]

I just saw on a news Channel (SAT-1), that the Italian govt has refused to give an explaination to the German ambassador Michael H. Gerdts, on why it is opposing Germany for a permanent seat in the security council of the UN.

this is turning out to be a major thing now. :boo:

[JayeMTee88]

The U.N is a totally worthless organisation, while the U.S went against international law and invaded iraq without a valid reason this hopeless federation stood by and watched, powerless to do anything.
Also it dosn't surprise me berlusconi's government would oppose germany becoming a permanent member, that clown's made racist comments about germany in the past.


ehhhh, how did this turn into another U.S. bashing. and besides, we invaded because saddam hussein sucks the big one... :D

[Toke-E-Yo]

ehhhh, how did this turn into another U.S. bashing. and besides, we invaded because saddam hussein sucks the big one... :D


just curious, but did all the innocent civilians killed in Iraq also suck the big one? Or the Americans who gave their lives, for a reason that has never been proved? 1000+ Americans dead, countless innocent standbuyers and Iraqi National Guard and Police dead, and yet Saddam Hussein still lives...funny how the world works. And I dont even think that he has been charged...watch him get off, because no one is pressing charges

[RaulMadrid7]

just curious, but did all the innocent civilians killed in Iraq also suck the big one? Or the Americans who gave their lives, for a reason that has never been proved? 1000+ Americans dead, countless innocent standbuyers and Iraqi National Guard and Police dead, and yet Saddam Hussein still lives...funny how the world works. And I dont even think that he has been charged...watch him get off, because no one is pressing charges
You're right but there is much more to why the U.S invaded Iraq.

I'll give you a clue:

*cough* $ OIL $ *cough*

[RaulMadrid7]

ehhhh, how did this turn into another U.S. bashing. and besides, we invaded because saddam hussein sucks the big one... :D
Once again, you have no idea why your own government goes into a war, not surprised since I noticed your posts in the other forums.

Your government blinds you with the media and Bush's stupid speeches, then they invade a country get themselves rich and leave the country their supposed to run poor(except for the rich guys that live thier).

And the sad part is the American people who are also taking the blow are still supporting the Bush administration.

Anyways, I can go on forever shoving this in your face, but since this is another topic here this is my opinion:

Italy obviously doesn't want Germany(one of the best countries IMO in Europe) to havea perm seat because many reasons that, well you saw it happening, Italy doesn't want to talk about which shows that they aren't fair reasons.

UN is useless anyways but if Germany has a perm seat at least there is a small chance for the UN to be at least a little more descent.

Oh and by the way, the US is slowly pulling Kofi Annon out of his position through thier silly little tricks.

Kofi Annon is the only non-currupt leader in the UN and if he goes, you can kiss the UN goodbye after a few years because the world will be in the dirty hands of the USA.(politically speaking)

[JayeMTee88]

Your government blinds you with the media and Bush's stupid speeches, then they invade a country get themselves rich and leave the country their supposed to run poor(except for the rich guys that live thier).



We're still there, we haven't left. and how did we invade to get rich? war isn't exactly free of charge...if you're talking about oil reserves we don't invade countries for their oil...Iraq isn't the only place we get our oil from.

[JayeMTee88]

just curious, but did all the innocent civilians killed in Iraq also suck the big one? Or the Americans who gave their lives, for a reason that has never been proved? 1000+ Americans dead, countless innocent standbuyers and Iraqi National Guard and Police dead, and yet Saddam Hussein still lives...funny how the world works. And I dont even think that he has been charged...watch him get off, because no one is pressing charges


most of the "standbuyers" were killed by car bombings, not american bullets. those americans gave their lives voluntarily for a reason of their own. suddam hussein lives, yes, but he is not going off uncharged.

[Toke-E-Yo]

most of the "standbuyers" were killed by car bombings, not american bullets. those americans gave their lives voluntarily for a reason of their own. suddam hussein lives, yes, but he is not going off uncharged.


an mercian bullet is also a iraqi bullet. How much Ammo did the US give saddam that was probably never used? The US is open, yet so closed. Does anyone know what still happens in the CIA?

The US needed Iraq beacuse it is the center of the world.
http://www.only-maps.com/world-map.jpg

take a look, the US already has bases in Asia, Europe, N. America, Pafic and Atlantic, Mediteranian, and tons of other places. With the Mid East in the hands of the US, They can easliy move in to Kuwait, Iran and other places that has oil.

[nachi88]

What US did in Irak has got nothing to do with why Italy is opposing Germany a seat in UN security council.

Please post relevant and related posts here or make a US-Irak thread seperately for your discussions.

[Joey_Ramone]

You're right but there is much more to why the U.S invaded Iraq.

I'll give you a clue:

*cough* $ OIL $ *cough*

If we went to war for oil how come my gas now costs me $2.19 a gallon when before the war it was about $1.69?

[Toke-E-Yo]

If we went to war for oil how come my gas now costs me $2.19 a gallon when before the war it was about $1.69?


well war is...expensive you see. Each bullet from a american AK 47 costs around $100. and getting to Iraq must have been expensive. Same thing happened with Kososvo during the 90`s

[Joey_Ramone]

well war is...expensive you see. Each bullet from a american AK 47 costs around $100. and getting to Iraq must have been expensive. Same thing happened with Kososvo during the 90`s

You make no sense. You said we went to war for oil, but our oil is more expensive now than ever. So we didn't take this into account before we went to war?

[Sol_Badguy79]

If we went to war for oil how come my gas now costs me $2.19 a gallon when before the war it was about $1.69?

Over the past year the price of oil has risen, thats why your petrol is more expensive. Though I would not complain if I were you, here gas costs $7.50 per gallon!

[Sol_Badguy79]

What US did in Irak has got nothing to do with why Italy is opposing Germany a seat in UN security council.

Please post relevant and related posts here or make a US-Irak thread seperately for your discussions.

It looks like Italy thinks Germany would use its seat to promote its own national interests. Though there is probably another reason, as Berlusconi and some members of his party are anti German. I don't see what this has to do with WW2 as Germany and Italy were allies then.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/27/wun27.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/09/27/ixworld.html

[nachi88]

It looks like Italy thinks Germany would use its seat to promote its own national interests. Though there is probably another reason, as Berlusconi and some members of his party are anti German. I don't see what this has to do with WW2 as Germany and Italy were allies then.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/27/wun27.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/09/27/ixworld.html

good link you sent...

but i dont think that promoting one's national intrest is a crme. Also striving for one's national intrest doesnt mean that it has to be by putting countires down.
Berlsuconi, has to atleast give an explaination as to why he is opposing Germany getting a permanent UN seat.

[Sol_Badguy79]

good link you sent...

but i dont think that promoting one's national intrest is a crme. Also striving for one's national intrest doesnt mean that it has to be by putting countires down.
Berlsuconi, has to atleast give an explaination as to why he is opposing Germany getting a permanent UN seat.

I agree that promoting ones national intrests is not a crime, though I don't think the UN is the place to do it as it is meant to be a cooperative organisation. However I don't think the current German government would abuse its position if it became a member of the security council, but Italy definitely needs to explain its position better.