It was closed...

[seka]

...but I want to have my say about some of the things posted there!

1.
"Mark McGwire USED VITAMINS?"
I can't believe this...
For what McGwire used, in Europe he'd never play ball again.


2.
Again: 92 DREAM TEAM WAS NOT TESTED! They didn't get tested, cause they made it a condition to come to the Olympics. Can't you understand English???
They said "We won't come if you test us!"
Got it?
Why did they say that? (Having in mind that NBA doesn't test players.) Don't worry, rhetorical question.

Average difference between DT and others in Barcelona = +43,8 pts
Average difference between UST and others in Sydney = don't have the exact data and am not willing to calculate either, but it ain't more than +15 points, which is 3 times lower.

Please, name Litva players who play in the NBA. Please, name French players who play in the NBA. I'll let you know that in 1992, for Croatia (finals), there were DRAZEN PETROVIC (NBA average 23 pts, best European basketball player of all times), TONI KUKOC, STOJKO VRANKOVIC. Plus many other aces that put Litva's players in their pocket even today (DINO RADJA, ARIAN KOMAZEC).

YET, THEY LOST 20 TIMES MORE to UST 92 than Litva did to UST 2000. Got it?

Conclusion: either NBA dropped 3 times, or Europe got 3 times better, or UST were using doping 92 and they didn't use doping now. Always a speculation, but when you have three facts (1. not tested 92, 2. +44 pts, 3. +15 pts) you CAN speculate.


3.
Someone said: "NBA doesn't test players but clubs do."

HAHAHAHA Are you nuts?
Do you think there'd be any positive test if IOC didn't test athletes at Olympics but leave that job to their countries?

You think things go like: "Sorry, XY, you are player of the LA Lakers and we (LA Lakers) found you're positive. Now, even though NBA gives a shit about it, we will sack you, despite knowing we'll lose the Championship without you."

Go tell your mama that fairy-tale, OK?


4.
Next thng: "They used weed, not steroids."

a) RADUCAN of Romania used cold pills and you could see what happened to her.
b) Who said they used weed? American Federation? I believe them. I am also NAIVE.
c) CJ certainly didn't use no weed, he used nandrolon (same as McGwire), concentration of it 1000 times higher than allowed. 4 TIMES IN A ROW POSITIVE. Bravo for those who were able to sabotage him 4 times...


5.

"Doping can't make you grow big."

Another statement of some scientist. Ever heard of GROWTH HORMONE???????

As a matter of fact, they found some coach (I don't know the country, Asian it was) on the Sydney airport bringing tons of it the very first day. Don't know the exact name of the substance, but it makes you grow allright. Americans were speculating Ian Thorpe was using it (cause his feet are no. 52), but he shut their mouth when showed complete record of his test. Very frequent, never positive. BTW, Shaq has feet no. 54...


6.

Let's discuss these points http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/smile.gif





[This message has been edited by seka (edited 04 October 2000).]

[Aussie-Bosanac]

This is totally beside the point but in Australia we also sing the national anthem at school.

The reason being that there is so many diff nationalities (in my school alone there were ppl from 82 countries, i am serious) and they try to unify them all under one "roof" and try to make evryone feel Australian. And to be honest with you it worked, especially during the olympics. I saw elderly Middle Eatern man alongide Aians watching the big screens in the streets and cheering for Autralia with all their hearts in the weirdest and funniest accents. And they stood tall and proud during the national anthem, even though most of them have arthrytis.

(I worked at the olympics, and saw and met many famous people, among who were Rusel Crow, Jimoen, Michael Johnson, Spanish losing soccer team and Moresmo the lebian...yeayyyy plus i got to see all the athletics finals, the closing ceremony and got paid $25 an hour to do so, i tell this to everyone i talk to heheheheh)

about bball, not much to say, didnt follow it so i wont talk but the fact is the USA won "again" still being the best in the world. And we can say how much "shittier" they are than before but they are still a bit better than the rest of the world even though that bit better is very tiny and getting smaller. I hope someone else wins the next olympics, for a different reason though, and that is i hate seeing american medal total be about a 100, it shits me that they are so good at evrything (i guess i'm just jealous). Americans i dont hate you, i dont hate your culture, i love McDonalds, Coce, your TV (most of all simpsons, Matt Groening is a legend), your girls, i respect your pride about your country but i apsolutely hate the ppl in charge!!!!

Cheers to all from the land down under we all love and adore called Autralia. I respect all, love all, and greet all (except politicians and racit ***kers) round the world.

[seka]

Bosanac, I see that the "olympic spirit" got you http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/smile.gif which is great, but let's not forget 1980 and 1984 when this same olympic spirit was denied by those who you praise so much... http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/frown.gif

I was quite often moved by some performances of the athletes myself. http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/smile.gif

Gotta say, though, that I was sick by olympic false morale propaganda on several occasions aswell... http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/frown.gif


PS

1. The hormone I was talking about is hGH (human growth hormone).

2. I heard that US BBall team didn't get tested this time aswell and that IOC-NBA treaty still stands.

3. Just because basket is popularized and "Dream" Team blown out of proportions, they are not better as far as I'm concerned until they compete under the same rules as other athletes do. Where is everybody's olympic spirit now?

Money, money...

If we go by that, why did Ben Johnson have to be tested? Great run it was in Seul 88, he was better (meaning: quicker than others) allright, but...

[PFC]

Aussie you have changed, gone through puberty? http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Grobar (edited 04 October 2000).]

[lilphenom]

just a qick fact on BIG MACK he did use supplements the year he hit 70 but the following year he did not and he hit nearly the same amount of homeruns i belive 3 less as for the 92 dream team compared to the 2000 there is now way you can compare them and not to mention that the supplements out 8 years ago and those today there was hardly the amount and if they were or were not testes it doesnt matter you cant compare the likes of JORDAN MAGIC DREXLER PIPPEN BARKLEY
and i am not going to use the excuse that we did not bring our best we didnt but that was not a excuse they still should have dominated and the rules are a bit different in the international but regardless they should have done better and those that were missing were TIM DUNCAN GRANT HILL SHAQ AND KOBE BRYANT they could be considered the 4 best players in the world but i still think the us should have done better and if this was not Americans this topic would have never been so big and that is 100 % true

[gambine]

I don't agree that Shaq is one of the best. He's just a big fat slob who's too strong to be really be stopped, but as far as talent goes, he's hurtin. His FT% is pretty low for a "pro". Most of his points come from dunks.


His strength is not his "best asset", it's his "only asset".

But the rest of those players are definately class.

[Aussie-Bosanac]

i never changed Grobar, must be you :-)

seka who am i praising?

[seka]

Bosanac, I meant "big" nations, such as Americans that you respect as you said. Well, these "big" guns have shown in Moscow 80 (Americans) and LA 84 (Russian reply to American boycot of OI 1980) that Olympics don't mean shit to them and that politics is always in front of sport or "olympic spirit"...

That's why I say this is a bunch of shit and false morale, when everybody is so into this "olympic spirit" megalomania. It's more or less gone and money has replaced it. Only a few athletes keep my faith in the olympism alive. Rest of it was bullshit and Sydney has set a new record in this Art of Bullshit.


Lilphenom:

1. Tim Duncan and Grant Hill were supposed to be in this team, but they got injured, OK? THIS HAPPENS, don't make excuses.
Litva missed Sabonis, Karnisovas, Ilgauskas, three BEST players of their team. It's like Magic, Jordan and Ewing wouldn't be in the 92 team.

2. Shaq and Kobe quit. Again, THIS HAPPENS.
In Yugo team, Divac and Djordjevic quit, and they're far more important to Yugos than Shaq or Kobe are to US team.

3. McGwire could use drugs, cause in professional baseball in USA things are the same as in NBA. They don't give a shit if everybody is using everything. Money and show (two basic US values) are far more important than everything else...

4. I agree that 92 team was DREAM TEAM, they were legends and they also behaved liked sportsmen. They presented American showtime in a non-abusive manner. The response of viewers was 100% on their side because of all of the above.

But this team of 2000 was arrogant, abusive, it's game sucked and was lucky to win gold medal, lucky to win any medal. Spectators and viewers around the world were against them, excluding Americans of course. Nobody likes arrogant bitches who can't even prove that on the field. They won that Olympic gold by walking a totally non-olympic-values path and it makes me sick and I can't wait for us Europeans to chrash them.

[Aussie-Bosanac]

I agree that money has taken over, but it has done so in every sport world wide.

And no i dont hink that you should undermine and put down Sydney's achievement, these were the cleanest (in reference to drugs) games ever and Sydney has done a great job. It is not right for people like you 10000 miles away to judge if it was a record of bullshit or whatever, a lot of ppl put in a lot of effort not to mention the 50 000 volunteers who had to do 10-10 hour shifts to make these games happen (reminding you that if you are a volunteer there is no money involved). I am sorry that you arnt satisfied with it but then you have a right to your opinion. Maybe Slovenia could do better.

And i did not "praise" anyone here earlier on. After saying that i hate seeing USA get so much gold i made sure i didnt offend any Americans here coz i have nothing against them indicidually and yes i do like a lot of stuff that comes out of their country and culture. Evryone hates the Americnas and for what? coz they have dickheads as leaders. That does not justify you trying to change my opinion about them. I apsoultely hate the US government but just like you and everyone else here a lot of stuff in my everyday life is American. Some of you ppl are always bagging America yet half of you here live there. If you hate it so much then move. Everyone should be proud of their heritage but if you hate the country so much try at least not to live there. This is all beside the point but i am amazed that you seka hate the american dream team so much (if they are a dream team at all anymore)... what happened in 1980, 1984 or1992, happened, it cant change now, life goes on. At these olympics they were all tested and still won even though they hardly did, the fact is they did.

thats all
just a reminder there is nowhere in this post an invitation to an argument :-)

[seka]

Bosanac, first of all, these Olympics were the best ever. As Samaranch said. I didn't say the opposite. Best organization, best spectators (number of them and their cheering), best cittizens-in-action programme (volunteers). I respect all of it and NO, Slovenia could NEVER do better, we could never even host the Olympics.

When I talked about bullshit, I meant what they're doing with so-called "olympic spirit". I was talking about false morale. Svaka èast Cathy Freeman, but those capitalizing on her make me S I C K, it's repulsive. I suspect you know facts about Aborigines and their abuse well, so I won't start this, as I didn't before. But all those Aussies patronizing them was disgusting. You look at yourself in a different way, I wonder what would you say if YOU were a part of ancient inhabitants...

Next, I was talking about megalomania. Makes me sick that some people are starving (even in Australia) and they spend 10 MIO USD on - fireworks... Sorry, man, I love fireworks, but let me tell you I felt asleep during those half an hour and it could easily be cut into 5-10 minutes if it wasn't for "look-at-us" megalomania.

I remember in exYU, when people (volunteers) were building road of Bratstvo i Jedinstvo... Great thing of them, but... can't say everything about it was so great. Little people... Athletes are little people aswell, they're the only ones who truly believe in Olympics (even that has been ***ked up by doping on many cases, and NO, Bosanac, Sydney wasn't the cleanest games when talking about doping, they were the dirtiest...).

Again, UST didn't get tested.

I don't hate Americans, I hate their general pompous attitude (when talking about these Olympics). Americans have their pluses (open people, showmakers, self-confident, love their country) and their minuses (lack of high culture and therefore not-understanding of it, easy to lead crowd-like behaviour, above all: FALSE MORALE). Let me tell you a joke about Americans:

Q: Who do Americans hate most?
A: Racists and niggers.

I hope you got the point...
America's leaders are nothing special (in good or bad), can't say Chirac, Blair, Yeltsin (Putin), Kohl (Schroeder) are any worse/better... When you lead a big country like US is, you gotta make certain moves that aren't appreciated worldwide, but that's not a reason anybody would dislike Americans.

So, again, Sidney Olympics were THE BEST, but the way they tried to sell bullshit was repulsive. These games were not about olympic spirit, they were about "Look at us, we are big". It worked with you as I see. All I'm asking is, being Olympic time, don't forget the less fortunate...

I hope Athens truly show the world the HOME of olympism (BTW, they should get 1996 Olympics if there was any tradition and not money deciding), otherwise I don't care if we quit this money show...

[lilphenom]

look i am not gonna stand here and say that americans are not arrogant because we can be and alot of the time we are but come on if it is an american being arrogant in your minds it is magnified 10 times more than that off any nationality and yes the overall knowledge here in the states of other culture is well below of what it should be and i have been blessed with the oppurtunity to see different cultures and some people take it for granted that they live here in the states hell 90 % probally do . i have not been to europe yet and i plan on it but i have been to south america and seen the poor people up in the mountains in there shacks starving and no one i knew personally knew yes there are some people taht are aware very aware but the percentage is low and i will admit that but the overall point is that if it wasnt an american you would not jump all over there back as much as you would as if it were some one else



[This message has been edited by lilphenom (edited 07 October 2000).]

[Aussie-Bosanac]

now hang on a second, are you going to tell me that there is everpresent abuse of the aboriginal people (meaning at this moment). I know it, you know it we all know it, they were mistreated by the white settlement 200 year ago, it is a fact. But now in this society Aboriganese as a people are not being abused. Do you know that every aboriginal youth has a right to recieve government funding called ABSTUDY(no matter if they work or not). Dont look at this as pitty to them but it is one of many ways to show and continue to show to those peopel how truely sorry todays generation is about what happend before. I know money doesnt fix anything, i know you're gona bring up the question "why doesnt australia appologise to them officially?? the reason they dont is because we here just like many ppl around the world are stuck with and arogant Prime Minister who sux the Queen's and Clinton's arses. But that doesnt mean that the Autralian people are not sorry, on June 10th (i think) this year over 300 000 people walked across the Sydney Harbour Bridge in a "sorry walk". The point was to show the aboriginal people that we as the new generation truly are sorry. Among the people were famous Autralian sportsmen, actors and members of the opposition. But still little Johnny Howard wont appoogise, nothing i can do about it. There is also this law down here called the "MABO law" i am sure you know about it. And through this the aborigial people are claiming the right to their sacred lands, obviosuly not the whole of Australia can be renamed Aboriginia, but everything that is possible is being done. Yes there i racist people down here just like evrywhere else but those are the minorities who put down, make harsh jokes and abuse not only the aboriginal people, but also the asian minorities and people from middle east. Unfortunately racism is all over the world and here we are doing our best to rid off it. Cathy Freeman is a great athlete, nothing to do with her being Aboriginal, the only people trying to use her in politics at the moment are the hardcore Aboriginal activists. We as a nation were jut as proud of our first archery, women's waterpolo & taekwondo gold medals as of Cathy. But Cathy is a big deal because we dont often win any gold medals in track and field. I dont know what facts you have about people capitalising on her. Please explain.
And one more thing, i think it wa more than nice and considerate to include all of those Aborignal people in the opening ceremony, to tell the story of how today's Australia was built, yes history is horrible but it wore at the Balkans!!! I thought by doing that on a ceremony that is being watched by 2 billion people or so is a very nice gesture, another way of saying that we accept Aboriganese and the Aboriganal culture as AUstralia's own culture coz it simply is.
I agree money has gone out of hand at the olympics, i agree about the fireworks, but that was done with a purpose to even more promote Sydney as one of the best tourist destination. It was a half an hour night show taped at a place what Sydney is most famous for, it's HArbour. That is marketing not my idea of sport. I wouldnt hope for too much from Athens, coz i am sure you are familiar with their current schedule problems.
Puno pozdrava od mene tebi, nemoj da se na mene ljutis ali mi je krivo da mislis da ljudi ovdje ubijaju Aboridzane po ulici!!!

talk to u soon

[seka]

First to lilphenom: I have nothing against showing-off (Americans do that best when it comes to sports), I always enjoyed sportsmen like Jordan, Greene, Tomba, even Carter when dunking. I think it's great to popularize the sport. But, when you show-off, you gotta be so good you can afford it. And when you show-off, you gotta respect your opponents aswell. This UST showed-off, but was arrogant and disrespective to the opponents and wvwn more - they had shown nothing special to be entitled to show-off... I told you I LOVED the real Dream Team. So, it's got nothing to do with being American or not, I'd hate it if Kareline, Redgrave, Savon or anybody else was disrespective - but they weren't and Dream Team weren't aswell.


To Bosanac: I don't think Aborigines are killed on the streets or something. I said they were patronized by Australians. Where was Freeman used? Do you remember what happened when she won World Championship and ran the lap of honour with Aboriginal flag only - it was a scandal. She was used to win and promote "new" ideas. A tough job for an athlete, to be used politically for what politicians are unable to do.

About fireworks etc. you said is good for turist promotion: Las Vegas is also well-promoted, but I'll never say it doesn't suck. While Acropolis DOESN'T NEED promotion...

I know the problems of Athens and Greece in general, but let's just wait. We thought Atlanta 96 will be best Olympics, cause they were held in rich and organized USA - and we all saw what happened: worst Olympics since Los Angeles.

Maybe Greeks won't make it so big, maybe they'll lack on megalomania that's so popular outside Europe, but they'll surely add a taste of true olympism (not a fake false morale show), tradition and spirit to the games. At least I hope so, since we can quit the show otherwise.

Let me tell you about money. 20 yrs ago, only amateurs could compete. Today, it doesn't even matter who competes as long as money is guaranteed. And money has taken over the Olympics - which COULD NOT be said for other sporting events. Football World Cup is one of them, although I agree money is more and more involved everywhere. For Olympics it used to be "Money needed in order to be able to compete" and now it's "Competing needed in order to make money"...


Something else about the opening ceremony. It was great, but the performance was much greater than the message. When we have Olympic Games 2000, I think talking Australia, Australia, Australia and it's problems, greatness, people-loving, etc. etc. is a bit to egocentric. If there was true olympic spirit, they'd made a show about the history of olympism (I count on Greeks to do that), about athletes, olympic peace. Olympic games aren't Australian, Bosanac. If they are of anybody then they're Greek, but since 1896 I believe they're of the whole world and this should be pointed out, not Australia, Australia, Australia... I think Sydney got enough promotion (and Australia) by having the honour to host the Olympics in the first place. Not everybody can do that.

So, this is my idea of Olympic games. They're not Rome of Ceasar, where athletes were gladiators used to please the crowd. They're ancient Greek peace and humanity promoting event and athletes are no.1, crowd is/should be humble towards them. (Maybe some Greek will come here and explain this). I can't help myself if 90% of the world's population understands fireworks and big fish going down the stadium better... Their problem.

[Aussie-Bosanac]

for some reason you dont seem to see the exact purpose of my interference which was to give my opinion on the american dream team, and let someone know (i dont know who it was) that even here the national anthem is played at school. I am sorry if it offends you that i am proud of Sydney's achievement but that is your problem not mine.
You brought up the Aboriginal mistreatment then avoided it on the basis that the politicans used Cathy Freeman but even there you are very misinformed. Her carrying the Aborignal flag was her choice and was a shock to everyone here but people accepted it coz she has the right to, it is her culture, and since then it has become like a trade mark of hers. At the time of that "incident" there was real contarversy about it but like i said people got over it.

Ofcourse Acropolis doesnt need promotion, did i say it does? How old is Acropolis and how old is Sydney, you do the math.

About the coment that the opening ceremony should have been about the history of the Olympic Games. Well i personally think it is rediculus, if that rule according to you should have applied to Sydney then it should have been applied to every other host city but dont you think that ppl would eventually get sick of the same old story every 4 years? If the mesage didnt work for you then so be it but everyone here got the point and it has brought a nation of many different cultures, races and religions together.

I cant help but sense some amount of jealousy to somehting in your comments such as "not Australia Australia Australia, i think they got ebough promotion" and "THe olympics arnt Australian" - who ever said that they were? and your constant battering of the western world. As a young nation, with its own problems, Australia relied heavily on these games to make an impresion in the world since we dont have all that good a currency, a decent prime minister or a great enough history to compete with Greece. Anyone who wants to compare Greece's ability to showcase the Olympic history to Autralia's is a fool, they were born there for God's sake but that doesnt nesesarily mean that they can produce a better olympic spirit or atmosphere, we can just wait and see. I peronally cant wait for the Athens games, coz i love that country and my life wish is to visit it and what a great opportunity this will be.

ONe more thing if the crowd wasnt humble towards the athletes please tell me what were they doing to them then? All the athletes were greatly accepted, heavily cheered for and supported, give me one example of "non-humblness". Have you heard of "Eric the eel?" the Equatorial Guinea swimmer who in Sydney for the first time in his life saw a heated pool and swam 100m, nearly drowning. He swam a minute slower than the average time of other Olympic competetors yet he got the biggest praise and became a national hero in a foreign country. Please justify such comments.

You are right not everyone gets the honour to host the olympics, but as much an honour it is, it is a very hard thing to pull off. And they werent awarded the olympice as a good will gesture by the rest of the world but because they earned them with the best proposals and ideas, and thankfully managed to deliver everything they promised and more.

I gotta say that i am amased at the amount of hatred you have as a Slovenian towards anything non-European because i always saw both Eurpeans and Slovenians as very open minded, accepting people.

[seka]

Bosanac, you ask me to explain, I explain, then you accuse me of hatred and narrow- mindedness (despite that you admit some things I have explained)...

???

Where exactly did you see hatred in my post? If you are so understanding as you claim to be, there's no need to see hatred in others' opinions. You are trying to sell "politically correct behaviour", I ain't buying, so you put me in some frame...

Speaking different is a privilege, I don't intend to let that go - by doing so I rather risk "hatred" frame from you than "sheep" frame from myself.

Freeman - you said it yourself: She was "bad girl" when having only Aboriginal flag, now she was "symbol". Hatred? The only ones hating were Australian settlers, excuse me. If there was no hatred, there'd be no need for "symbols". Who was "opened" when she ran with her people's own flag? I respect everybody who loves his/hers country and people, she did just that, I respect her for it and I can't say that for those who critisized her.

About Olympic history and humanity that should've been displayed (in my opinion): I specifically said "being THE YEAR 2000 Olympics", they should present olympism as such, humanity, human body and mind (and not every 4 years same story!, don't put words in my mouth). Mens sana in corpore sano, ancient Greek tradition, etc.

New millenium as many see it, is somehow a turning point, there are questions being raised about HUMAN race and its place vs. machine and money domination (remember Seattle, WTO? Cloning? Starvation and wars all over the planet despite human race having the resources to live freely and not starve?), Olympic Games 2000 would be a great event to send a message of that. This, if anything, would reveal Sydney the greatest, not machines, computers, technics and money up front - that's where I hope Athens to do better. I pray they put HUMAN up front.

Above written is also my answer to "humble or not" debate of ours. I don't know who's being humble, when athletes are widely (forced to? - by the system) using doping just to be "somebody" cause they can't make the top spots regularly and other spots don't count shit.

You feel like Olympics are a great event, we agree. I also think they're something more and that "more" should be properly presented and taken care of, not used in other purposes that have nothing to do with it. When Greek girls from Olympia came to take the flag at closing ceremony, I sensed that presentation. People on the other side weren't impressed at all. Don't see this as hatred or anything again.

I said several times that an ATHLETE, human being(s) are olympism. Ancient olympics were about that and new ones shouldn't forget it either (although it is different time). Olympics shouldn't be promotion and money, but athletes and peace and this would guarantee promotion. Promotion is the consequence, not the cause.

One of the "new era" problems which also arose, is false morale, double standards. I actually do hate that, I admit...

Eric Moussambani? He was a symbol of what has died; by that I mean Coubertin's principle. As I said for Freeman why symbols are used: if there was live olympic spirit, there's be no need for Eric "the Eel" (super nadimak...). Very nice of the people to applaud him so much! I only felt like they cared for him simply because HE SUCKED... Sorry, I'm not a Hollywood producer, not a "believer". If he was 30 seconds better, nobody would care. Nobody would know him, nobody would give him the scolarship or offer contracts to him. Why did they do it? My opinion - surely different as yours - cause Eric can be marketed, he IS news. He can be used, as people deep inside feel there's something wrong with first, first, first,.. they expressed it and let's capitalize on it.

But Coubertin did't mean to say: "You are a hero if you are the first or if you are the last, all in the middle doesn't count", he meant "you are the hero if you are an olympic athlete as such". So much about Eric Moussambani.


I said Sydney Olympics were best ever, especially regarding organization and spectators. You said you felt my jealousy and hatred to "Western world" (BTW, what's that - we talked Australia and USA only... ??? Where's West, where's East? Once here once there? Am I "Eastern World" to hate "Western World"? Where's the line?).

I can only say you might have taken my commentary very personally and understood it the way you did because of emotions you have towards Australia as your country. I respect the fact that you love your country and people who accepted you so well. I didn't want to offend you and I apologize if you felt offended by my statements.

I only have to ask you to - for purposes of this debate - put the emotions aside and try to look at things from another angle for a second. I can easily say Slovenia could never even host Olympics and I love my country aswell. It's got nothing to with it, I see it as a fact and if XY said it, I wouldn't hold it against him/her... It's a fact. I try to speak my mind about the things as I see it, don't put me in the frames, please.

[Aussie-Bosanac]

Seka, did i say anywhere that Cathy was a "bad girl"? No i didnt, i said it was a shock because no-one ever did something like that before? People are scared of change and that is why i used the word "incident" coz it was portrayed as one but she wasnt put down nor publicly criticised for it, i cant speak for every individual's thoughts at home but she wasnt publiclly criticised for it.

Yeah you are right about Eric being a marketing tool, i didnt bring him up as an example of the ideal olympic spirit but it was in regards to your "humble" comment. I was merely stating that the crowd appreciated him and rewarded him for his effort (just like every other athlete), the spectators didnt see money signs in his strokes but human courage and rewarded him for it. Speedo didnt proclaim him as the "national hero in a foreign country" by giving him a sponsorship, it was the people and their own opinions in polls and newspapers.

I ain't trying to sell anything to you, yet alone "politically correct behaviour". I have no idea what makes you think that. I said that i am amazed at your amount of hatred being a Slovenian (I consider Slovenia as a western country, maybe thats my mistake) towards the western world, i didnt invent the division between West and East (which is not geographical but i am sure you know that) i am just using it as an example. I dont see hatred in your different views but in the way you put them across. I have a feeling that you would use any force nesesary to prove to me here that Athens will
do a better job, maybe they will maybe they wont i dont know but you seem like you know. No-one is denieing that the true Olympic spirit has slowly been disapearing but like you said its the times that are changing, but in one way or the other at least some of the true meaning should be kept alive. And dont be too certain that the Greek Opening Ceremony wont be used in a marketing kinda way too, dont be too surprised that instead of portarying the history of the Olympics they decide to portray the evolution of suvlaki, i know its a stupid example plus i cant spell it properly but i am just saying that the history of Olympia might not be their theme but then again it might. Whatever it ends up being i hope its good coz i wanna go and watch it :-)

About me being offended, i am not offended by your views so there is no need to appologise. It just bothered me when you said Sydney made a new record of "bullshit" which you later on explained to me what you meant by it, i was just defending the hard work put in by all involved. And i got a bit edgy (hehe) when you brought up the patronising of the Aboriginal people by Australians, i am sorry but there you are wrong. There is racism everywhere but the indigenous people here have more recognition than other indigenous people in most other countries. Take a look at Fiji, East Timor, most of South America, Africa and ofcourse who could forget the USA. once again dont appologise there is no need to. I do love this country but you are wrong that i rely on my emotions when puting my opinion across and i do look at things from different angles, if i didnt i would be rebuffing and arguing "everything" you say in order to "sell" you my opinions, which i am not and as you saw i agreed with most things you said appart from the ones where you are certain that Athens will do a better job and that Cathy Freeman was or is used.

thats all, take care

[seka]

Hey, hey... I am NOT certain Greeks will do a better job. And I'm far from wanting to persuade anybody they will.

I said "I HOPE they do a better job or we can quit this money show forever". I explained then what I mean by "better" job.

I'm sure everybody (that's where I am sure) would be sick if they wanted to pass Sydney and make 1 hour of fireworks and then 2008 there's be 2 hours of fireworks, etc. etc. - you know what I mean.

Sydney has done so good it'll be hard to pass it unless they make something special and different, of more spirit and I believe if anybody then Greeks will (not because they're so big or rich or whatever, but simply because they have a special relation with Olympic Games and they'd be very stupid not to display that in my opinion). Let's say if there were bets, I'd bet on it that their opening ceremony will be mainly about olympism and humanity and other ancient Greek values.

Being these values are GREEK, it'll be hard to say if they did it because of olympism or because it's THEIR history. But anyway, it might show the OTHER way to present Olympic Games and this would surely help OG's future in my opinion.

I'm thinking that in means of organization Athens can't do better (or even same level) as Sydney managed to. If Americans, Spaniards, Koreans had problems with organizations, I suspect Greeks to have problems, too. We'll see.


About East-West. This is a subject that annoys me. Talking about SLOVENIA: we were "East World" 10 yrs ago, now we (better: some of us) don't know where we are, in 2 years we'll be "West World" (when we join European Union). That's bullshit. We are Slovenia and we evolve like all other countries and nations do, in some ways on better in some ways on worse.

Being that it's not a GEOGRAPHICAL line, it's even greater bullshit. I understand someone is Asian and another European, cause it has no "better-worse" conotation whatsoever. People are people and Slovenian values are Slovenian values no matter where (we/you) put us.

I certainly don't belong to those who think there's "med in mleko" over the border (have been there too many times) or to those who believe USA is a dreamland (a very popular belief in exYU).

You could see now with Serbia, they were "Balkan" to "Europe" in one week time. I think Balkan is special and different - like Scandinavia for example - but they're both Europe forever. To me, it's almost like name-calling...


Bosanac, I am very sorry we can't have this debate "live" (na 4 oèi, hehe) over a cup of coffee or beer... There's so much to talk about it and internet is difficult type of media to present some of your ideas, it's without actually seeing or hearing the other person. That's why sparks sometimes happen and that's why I apologized to you cause I'd like us to have a cool debate and not a hating one and I felt you misunderstood me. If we were na 4 oèi there's be no need for it, believe me.

Do you sometimes visit here? Ako dodješ, svratièemo na piæe, pa nek se vidi Balkance, haha http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Aussie-Bosanac]

Yeah u are right, it is very hard to maintain a civilised conversation over the net because we missinterpret each other's comments too often.

I'll be down there (or up there i dont wanna offend you hehehe) at the end of November, thats when Uni finihes and me going on a holiday to the place "i came from" and i am planning on stoping in Slovenia (Sezana), my uncle lived there most his life but pased away 6 years ago :-( and i wanna visit his grave for the first time. If you arnt too far from there it would be great to meet you but i dont drink beer i only drink spirits hehehe, sljivovicu kao pravi Bosanac :-)

[seka]

Super! Par dana prije što dolaziš, šalji e-mail pa æu ti dati moj telefonski broj, da æeš me pozvati, kad doðeš. Ja živim jedan sat/sat i pol od Sežane i imam auto, tako da nije nikakvih problema (BTW, znaš Alena? On je iz Sežane...) Ako odluèiš da ostaneš u Sloveniji malo duže (barem 2-3 dana), ja æu ti malo razkazati ovu našu zemlju (Škofja Loka, Bled, Postojna, Ljubljana, štogod ti pade na pamet). To je obeèanje! Možeš i kod mene da ostaneš za par dana ako hoèeš.

A za šljivovicu ne brini http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/wink.gif. Ima puno rakije u Sloveniji, prave je na svakom uglu http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Možemo i kod Alena na teran (super crveno vino iz Krasa).

Inaèe razumiješ slovenski?
Kakva je meni bosanšèina? http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Dobro, otom potom!

[Ivan]

sljivovicu kao pravi Bosanac :-)

Mislis kao pravi Srbin? http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/wink.gif Pa sto pre nisi rekao mujooooo! http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.worldsoccerboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Aussie-Bosanac]

Nema problema, javim se kad krenem

Ma ti sve super razumijes i pricas ali ja nazalost nisam dobar sa Slovenskim. A to za vino, i ta mi se svidja :-)

A za Ivana. Jeli potrebno da zabadas ponovo? Niti sam te scim uvrijedio niti sam ti sta rekao. Koji me kurac zoves Mujom? ne zovem ni ja tebe Djurom niti Radovanom. Ako nemozes u fino nemoj nikako Boga ti.