New cars and new faces for F1 '05

[lsgworldl]

Pics here :arrow:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/photo_galleries/4183021.stm

[RonaldoD08]

the mc-laren are doing pretty good.
let's see what montoya and kimmi can do together.

[Nikodemus]

Yeah, new carsm new drivers, new rules/regulations and a new race (Turkey). More new liveries. Like ex Jaguar -> Red Bull
It'll be interesting to see how JPM can do with McLaren. Changing team is not a small thing. McLaren-Mercedes has so much expectations about this season. All new car and very much of development.
Ferrari will be still be very tough I believe. Maranello's organization is so strong and well working.
I'm cheering for Renault! Their R24 was really good last year and so was R23 year before. They sure are one of the top teams with BAR, BMW-Williams, McLaren-Mercedes and Ferrari which can still be in an upper class than the others.

[RonaldoD08]

Yeah, new carsm new drivers, new rules/regulations and a new race (Turkey). More new liveries. Like ex Jaguar -> Red Bull
It'll be interesting to see how JPM can do with McLaren. Changing team is not a small thing. McLaren-Mercedes has so much expectations about this season. All new car and very much of development.
Ferrari will be still be very tough I believe. Maranello's organization is so strong and well working.
I'm cheering for Renault! Their R24 was really good last year and so was R23 year before. They sure are one of the top teams with BAR, BMW-Williams, McLaren-Mercedes and Ferrari which can still be in an upper class than the others.

well hopefully ferrari are not that much upper class this time cause that would make the championship boring and give schumacher another undeserved title.

[RonaldoD08]

he wins the titles but only because he is better than barrichelo who cannot sweep the title from schumacher.

[Nikodemus]

I do not believe Schumacher's titles with Ferrari are undeserved. Schumi is one of the biggest factors to Ferrari's superiority. Ferrari's resources are not that much bigger than other teams'. In some things some other teams have even more money. Schumacher and other guys in red have made Maranello's horse what it is now in F1. They kind of deserve it if there isn't anyone to beat them. One can see it as Ferrari's superiority or other teams' huge difficulties or stumbling.
Of course last season was not very interesting. Like season 2002. Still, we saw some entertaining races.

[arminius]

before schumi came to ferarri they had'nt won the world championship since the 70's, now they win it every year, that's no coincidence, besides schumi was already a 2 time world champ with benneton.

[Nikodemus]

Actually Ferrari won a couple of championship titles in the 80's. Or do you mean drivers' titles?
And it's not like Ferrari's domination is something never-seen-before. McLaren-Honda with drivers Senna & Prost were almost invincible in some seasons. Sure they could also race against each other when the pair Schumi-Barrichello can't offer that kind of fights right now.

[arminius]

Actually Ferrari won a couple of championship titles in the 80's. Or do you mean drivers' titles?
And it's not like Ferrari's domination is something never-seen-before. McLaren-Honda with drivers Senna & Prost were almost invincible in some seasons. Sure they could also race against each other when the pair Schumi-Barrichello can't offer that kind of fights right now.
yes, i mean't the driver's championship, before schumi the last ferrari world champion was jody scheckter, a south african who won in either 78 or 79.

[RonaldoD08]

I do not believe Schumacher's titles with Ferrari are undeserved. Schumi is one of the biggest factors to Ferrari's superiority. Ferrari's resources are not that much bigger than other teams'. In some things some other teams have even more money. Schumacher and other guys in red have made Maranello's horse what it is now in F1. They kind of deserve it if there isn't anyone to beat them. One can see it as Ferrari's superiority or other teams' huge difficulties or stumbling.
Of course last season was not very interesting. Like season 2002. Still, we saw some entertaining races.


The only entertaining races I remember were the ones with Barrichelo and Schumi fighting and the rest coming behind with a 10 min difference. I don't think that such a difference is because of the driver's skills.

[RonaldoD08]

Schumi and Barrichelo share half of the points of the whole championship. If you say that Schummi is a great factor for Ferrari then you have to admitt that Barrichelo is a great dricer too, which I don't think is that acceptable. With only 5 wins in 500 races and crying everytime ...
He does not win becuase Schummi is better than him and that's absolutely tru, but Barrichelo coming second in every race 2 sec behind Schummi and 10 min ahead of the others is not because of Barrichelo's skills.

[yumyum]

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/images/ferrari-f430-1-big.JPG

[RonaldoD08]

If both of the drivers of a team come first than it's because of the car not because of the drivers individual skills epsecially when one of the drivers is Barrichelo.
Look at Hakkinen and Coulthard. They had the same car and Hakkinen won the Chanpionship twice and neither time was Coulthard second. In fact he was always below Ferrari's drivers. That's a sandwich. The car's are the same but the driver's skills decide the Champion. And the champion in that case was Mikka.
The same thing happened with Kimmi. He came 2 points short of Schummi while Coulthard was navigating in the bottom half of the ranking. And no one can say that Coulthard is a bad driver. At least he is way better than Barrichelo.

[Nikodemus]

Well maybe now (last season) almost any driver could win when driving Ferrari. Michael Schumacher together with Todt, Byrne, Brawn and those guys made Ferrari a winner car. Ferrari is ahead in developement and that's why they are so good.
Victories Ferrari take now are not all Schumacher's merit but one can't say he's just a usual driver.
And about Mika Häkkinen. In my opinion, he's one of the greatest ever. I miss the fair and equal fights between Mika and Michael.

[FORZA_PIRLO]

from what ive heard Jarno Trulli is gonna go to Ferrari next season

[hardssa]

I'll be cheering for Mark Webber (Aussie) and the BMW Williams team. The first race is in Melbourne, Australia :)

[Nikodemus]

It's Friday in Melbourne so TODAY it starts! Just Free Practice but as a motorsports fan I gotta watch it.
What do you guys think about the new qualifying system? Two laps and times are summed together.
And not tire changings during the race. Only fuelling. I think pit stops are becoming less interesting. Sure if the last laps are going to be like in MotoGP I'll support the tire rule. Maybe some drivers save their tires to the end and start overtaking.

[hardssa]

Congratulations to Fisichella! He was followed by Barrichello and Alonso. Webber who qualified third finished 5th :( .

[nachi88]

Damn, Schumacher didnt finish.

No problem, he'll win the next 10 gp's and bring back the drivers championship to Germany where it belongs. :D

[RonaldoD08]

Damn, Schumacher didnt finish.

No problem, he'll win the next 10 gp's and bring back the drivers championship to Germany where it belongs. :D

I am not sure about that cause unfortunately this year his ferrari is just like the other cars and schumacher without his alien ferrari is nothing...:( :D

[nachi88]

I am not sure about that cause unfortunately this year his ferrari is just like the other cars and schumacher without his alien ferrari is nothing...:( :D

obvioulsy you dont watch f1 races. :D

Schumacher is to F1, what brasil+argentina+germany are to football.

[RonaldoD08]

obvioulsy you dont watch f1 races. :D

Schumacher is to F1, what brasil+argentina+germany are to football.

I have seen every f1 race and since ferrari started getting some distance it became boring because drivers like schumacher and barrichelo started winning every race so if you have ever seen any race you know what that means - f1 is boring as hell and it sucks that drivers like schumi and barrichelo can win instead of those who deserve to win...

PS: I am sorry man but that's the truth...did you see the race today...how schumi managed to ruin the race even though he started in 18 place...he kept raikkonen with his usual cheats even though raikkonen would have been going 2 seconds faster than schumi's fat ass...
:annoyed:

[nachi88]

I have seen every f1 race and since ferrari started getting some distance it became boring because drivers like schumacher and barrichelo started winning every race so if you have ever seen any race you know what that means - f1 is boring as hell and it sucks that drivers like schumi and barrichelo can win instead of those who deserve to win...

PS: I am sorry man but that's the truth...did you see the race today...how schumi managed to ruin the race even though he started in 18 place...he kept raikkonen with his usual cheats even though raikkonen would have been going 2 seconds faster than schumi's fat ass...
:annoyed:

no, i didnt see the race today, it started very late in the night here. If you deny that Schumi has talent, it means any one of the following

1) You have no information whatsoever about f1
2) You are retarded :D
3) Both :D :D :D :D :D

I suggest you see any race in the 2002-2003 season and then comment.

[RonaldoD08]

no, i didnt see the race today, it started very late in the night here. If you deny that Schumi has no talent, it means any one of the following

1) You have no information whatsoever about f1
2) You are retarded :D
3) Both :D :D :D :D :D

I suggest you see any race in the 2002-2003 season and then comment.

I saw all the races in 2002-2003 season and they were utterly boring...

schumacher 1st, barrichelo 2nd with 1 second difference and someone else third with two laps difference...
schumacher couldn't even take care of barrichelo...

I don't think that schumacher is a bad driver...and I didn't say that he does not have talent cause if you drive in f1 you must have talent...
the problem is that schumacher does not deserve 7 championships, that's all....

PS: All the points above apply to you cause if you read what you wrote one more time you would understand that what you are saying is: if I deny that schumi has no talent (meaning If I say that schumi has talent - double negative) I don't have any info about f1 or I am retarded...
well I think that if you think that I am retarded if I say that schumi is talented I am pretty sure you must visit some professional to help you out with your personal problems...not ofense, but next time check what you write cause you are a mod damn it and stop this shit now... :mad2:

[nachi88]

I saw all the races in 2002-2003 season and they were utterly boring...

schumacher 1st, barrichelo 2nd with 1 second difference and someone else third with two laps difference...
schumacher couldn't even take care of barrichelo...

I don't think that schumacher is a bad driver...and I didn't say that he does not have talent cause if you drive in f1 you must have talent...
the problem is that schumacher does not deserve 7 championships, that's all....

PS: All the points above apply to you cause if you read what you wrote one more time you would understand that what you are saying is: if I deny that schumi has no talent (meaning If I say that schumi has talent - double negative) I don't have any info about f1 or I am retarded...
well I think that if you think that I am retarded if I say that schumi is talented I am pretty sure you must visit some professional to help you out with your personal problems...not ofense, but next time check what you write cause you are a mod damn it and stop this shit now... :mad2:


ok, point taken, i edit that one.

so ur not that bad in math after all.... :D

personal problems? wtf are you talking about???? anyways, if any further problems, pm me or take this to some other f1 forum?
Schumi doesnt deserve 7 titles???? thats like saying brasil doesnt deserve 5 titles( and im sure many people here would agree with that, though i wouldnt). get the analogy. :eek:

[RonaldoD08]

ok, point taken, i edit that one.

so ur not that bad in math after all.... :D

personal problems? wtf are you talking about???? anyways, if any further problems, pm me or take this to the mods lounge or we can continue on some other f1 forum?
Schumi doesnt deserve 7 titles???? thats like saying brasil doesnt deserve 5 titles( and im sure many people here would agree with that, though i wouldnt). get the analogy. :eek:

you see that you are not that tough in logic...lol

I don't have anything with you...
I don't even know why you got so exited...lol

[RonaldoD08]

for all of those who might think that this is a mod fight, you are wrong...lol

me and nachi are having some fun and that's all...:D

[Nikodemus]

Very interesting race and I like the result too. Go Renault!! Awesome job Fisico and Nano Alonso! From pole to victory and 13th to 3rd.
You can't say Ferrari is on the same level as other teams now. They are using their last years car with modifications. F2005 will definitely be stronger. Renault, McLaren-Mercedes and BMW-Williams have improved and so have Ferrari. This was an unusual race (qualifying was like lottery and so on) so real potential is not revealed yet. And Rubinho was 11th in the grid. 2nd place. That's what Scuderia can do. And Schumi was doing well before the incident with Heidfeld.
Kimi smashed his chances by playing with the clutch or something right before the start.
I expected BAR to be better. And their retirements on the last lap. Tactics caused by the new engine rule. Somehow it just looks bad.

[nachi88]

ok, point taken, i edit that one.

so ur not that bad in math after all.... :D

personal problems? wtf are you talking about???? anyways, if any further problems, pm me or take this to some other only f1 forum?
Schumi doesnt deserve 7 titles???? thats like saying brasil doesnt deserve 5 titles( and im sure many people here would agree with that, though i wouldnt). get the analogy. :eek:

[RonaldoD08]

the problem is that the analogy does not work. schumacher is driving a ferrari, while the brasilians aer all running on their own.
Ronaldo's talent for example works in every team, while schumacher's talent is not the same without a in-form ferrari.(put schumacher in minardi and you will see) you see your mistake one more time? :silly:

PS: I told you to check your analogies before you post them.

[AstonVillaFan 2]

Ronaldo is ball fed by Zidane and Figo...Schumacker if he went with any team would still be a champion.

[RonaldoD08]

Ronaldo is ball fed by Zidane and Figo...Schumacker if he went with any team would still be a champion.

In 12 years Ronaldo has played only for two years with Zidane and Figo, but when he had his best form while not playing with Zidane and Figo.
Schumacher on the other hand has won only when his car was the undisputable best car of the championship. Look at the two championships with Benetton which for me were the ones he deserves most. Even then Benetton was the best car. Look at Ferrari during the last 5 or 6 years. I don't think that there is anyone who has seen any race of F1 that will tell me that Ferrari is not way better than the other cars.

[AstonVillaFan 2]

What about Mclaren-mercedes, BMW-Williams, Honda, Toyota. Those are tough teams.

[RonaldoD08]

What about Mclaren-mercedes, BMW-Williams, Honda, Toyota. Those are tough teams.

Well you cannot say that for the last 6 years. They are tough, but not compared to Ferrari.

[AstonVillaFan 2]

Mclaren and BMW are at a close second... I mean think about ferrari being like madrid look at the forwards and the midfield....I mean its the same thing.

[Nikodemus]

Sure a big part of Schumi's success is caused by his team. That's the way it is in all motorsports. But the best football player in the world can't win titles without a good team around him. Same in F1. Anyways M. Schumacher has together with Maranello guys developed Ferrari to the level it is now. Ferrari was not superior to the others when Michael joined them.
Schumacher's knowledge and experience help Ferrari to make their cars better. I'm not saying Schumi would be the only driver that can do it though. Combination of the most legendary team in Formula 1 and M. Schumacher is tough.

[Nikodemus]

WOW! Awesome job Renault F1 team! Two victories out of two races. First Fisico and now Alonso from pole to win. Renault leads in the both points tables.
Ferrari was surprise for me. Schumi 7th and Rubinho out.
Toyota and Trulli took the second place. Toyota's first time on the podium. Also Red Bull did well. Again both cars to points.
But BAR is still in their ditch. No points and they were second in last years championship.

[hardssa]

WOW! Awesome job Renault F1 team! Two victories out of two races. First Fisico and now Alonso from pole to win. Renault leads in the both points tables.
Ferrari was surprise for me. Schumi 7th and Rubinho out.
Toyota and Trulli took the second place. Toyota's first time on the podium. Also Red Bull did well. Again both cars to points.
But BAR is still in their ditch. No points and they were second in last years championship.
Wow thats great, good to see other companies on the podium this year. Anybody know how Webber went?

[Nikodemus]

you must already know this but I'll say it anyways.
Webber crashed with Fisico on the 37th lap when he tried to overtake Giancarlo's Renault. Both had to retire. Fisichella got warned by the judges after the race.
I think neither should have been warned. It was a normal racing situation...

[baggy]

Bahrain GP - Sakhir, April 3rd, 2005

1. 5 ALONSO Renault M 1h29'18"531 207.082 Km/h
2. 16 TRULLI Toyota M + 0'13"409 206.565 Km/h
3. 9 RAIKKONEN McLaren Mercedes M + 0'32"063 205.851 Km/h
4. 17 R.SCHUMACHER Toyota M + 0'53"272 205.044 Km/h
5. 10 DE LA ROSA McLaren Mercedes M + 1'04"988 204.601 Km/h
6. 7 WEBBER Williams BMW M + 1'14"701 204.235 Km/h
7. 12 MASSA Sauber Petronas M 1 lap(s)
8. 14 COULTHARD RedBull Cosworth M 1 lap(s)
9. 2 BARRICHELLO Ferrari B 1 lap(s)
10. 18 MONTEIRO Jordan Toyota B 2 lap(s)
11. 11 VILLENEUVE Sauber Petronas M 3 lap(s)
12. 20 FRIESACHER Minardi Cosworth B 3 lap(s)
13. 21 ALBERS Minardi Cosworth B 4 lap(s)
14. 3 BUTTON BAR Honda M 11 lap(s)
15. 4 SATO BAR Honda M 30 lap(s)
16. 8 HEIDFELD Williams BMW M 32 lap(s)
17. 1 M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari B 45 lap(s)
18. 6 FISICHELLA Renault M 53 lap(s)
19. 19 KARTHIKEYAN Jordan Toyota B 53 lap(s)
20. 15 KLIEN RedBull Cosworth M 57 lap(s)

[baggy]

F1 2005 Championship - Drivers' Standings after Race 3:

01 F.ALONSO 26
02 J.TRULLI 16
03 G.FISICHELLA 10
04 R.SCHUMACHER 9
05 D.COULTHARD 9
06 R.BARRICHELLO 8
07 JP.MONTOYA 8
08 K.RAIKKONEN 7
09 M.WEBBER 7
10 N.HEIDFELD 6
11 P. DE LA ROSA 4
12 C.KLIEN 3
13 F.MASSA 2
14 M.SCHUMACHER 2
______________________________________________

F1 2005 Championship - Constructors' Standings after Race 3:

01 RENAULT 36
02 TOYOTA 25
03 McLAREN 19
04 WILLIAMS 13
05 REDBULL 12
06 FERRARI 10
07 SAUBER 2

[baggy]

Alonso is doing pretty well and already won 2 races. On the other hand, Schumi has got only one seventh place out of three races and is far behind Alonso. Seems like his era is already over, God damn it!

[RonaldoD08]

Alonso is doing pretty well and already won 2 races. On the other hand, Schumi has got only one seventh place out of three races and is far behind Alonso. Seems like his era is already over, God damn it!

Yup. Ferrari's era is already over...and renault's era is on. It's not about the driver anymore since 2002. Now it's about the car...

[baggy]

Yup. Ferrari's era is already over...and renault's era is on. It's not about the driver anymore since 2002. Now it's about the car...

But still Schumi is among the legends now, one of the greatest, and no one can denny it...

[RonaldoD08]

But still Schumi is among the legends now, one of the greatest, and no one can denny it...

since 2002 he won because of ferrari and now he is proving that while sucking because he does not have an airplane to drive anymore...

[baggy]

since 2002 he won because of ferrari and now he is proving that while sucking because he does not have an airplane to drive anymore...

He was the man who took Ferrari to such success, he was one of the key improvers of the car. If he would have never gone to Ferrari, now Ferrari would be nothing, and the Team that would have held him, would be God... There at Ferrari, he's a driver and ingeneer at the same time, the whole team works around him....
GO SCHUMMI !!!
http://f1results.free.fr/2002/jap_schum.jpg
HIS CLASSIC JUMP, UNFORGETABLE !!!

[RonaldoD08]

He was the man who took Ferrari to such success, he was one of the key improvers of the car. If he would have never gone to Ferrari, now Ferrari would be nothing, and the Team that would have held him, would be God... There at Ferrari, he's a driver and ingeneer at the same time, the whole team works around him....
GO SCHUMMI !!!
http://f1results.free.fr/2002/jap_schum.jpg

As for schumi being the engineer, now I understand why barrichelo comes second everytime. He must be an engineer too....lol :D
If you have been following the races lately (since 2002) you must have noticed that barrichelo has always been on his back. Now you can either say that Barrichelo is a legendary driver too... ( :D) or just accept that Ferrari has been way over the other teams and that's not because of Schumi as Schumi dropped out of school and the guys who build the ferrari are scientists. To build a F1 car you have to know some advanced aerodynamics and that requires some high-end math and physics knowledge which you don't get at high school and I don't think Schumi either knows that kind of math and physics nor is smart enough to even learn it.
It's not because of Schumi, its because of Jan Todd. He is the guy who does the calculating...not schumi.

[Nikodemus]

sure. there's an army of intelligent and wise men in Maranello working for Ferrari. But in motorsports the driver is the one who provides the last pieces of information to adjust the car. Telemetry and all that tell a lot nowadays but in the end it all comes to the driver. Schumacher knows maybe the most of car's setting and balance than any other driver in the F1 today. With Schumacher's experience and Todt-Brawn-Byrne-...-... they can make their car go anywhere.

About the race yesterday. Awesome again Renault! Nano Alonso rocks the F1 circus. Fantastic domination from the start to the finish. And also again Trulli 2nd with Toyota. Big money is starting to make results.
Räikkönen also made it to the podium. But mostly because others infront of him had big problems.
Ferrari's F2005 and Schumi were really fast. As fast as R25 in Alonso's hands. First retirement because of a technical problem for Schumacher since 2001. Now I think Ferrari will do a loooooot testing. They want to take 1-2 infront of Tifosi crowd in Imola. I don't believe their era is over yet. It would end too suddenly. From dominating the series for years to zero. Too much in too little time. They just were too slow to develop the new car. Now they started using it and it's not on it's best level yet.

[RonaldoD08]

sure. there's an army of intelligent and wise men in Maranello working for Ferrari. But in motorsports the driver is the one who provides the last pieces of information to adjust the car. Telemetry and all that tell a lot nowadays but in the end it all comes to the driver. Schumacher knows maybe the most of car's setting and balance than any other driver in the F1 today. With Schumacher's experience and Todt-Brawn-Byrne-...-... they can make their car go anywhere.

About the race yesterday. Awesome again Renault! Nano Alonso rocks the F1 circus. Fantastic domination from the start to the finish. And also again Trulli 2nd with Toyota. Big money is starting to make results.
Räikkönen also made it to the podium. But mostly because others infront of him had big problems.
Ferrari's F2005 and Schumi were really fast. As fast as R25 in Alonso's hands. First retirement because of a technical problem for Schumacher since 2001. Now I think Ferrari will do a loooooot testing. They want to take 1-2 infront of Tifosi crowd in Imola. I don't believe their era is over yet. It would end too suddenly. From dominating the series for years to zero. Too much in too little time. They just were too slow to develop the new car. Now they started using it and it's not on it's best level yet.

they just underestimated their opponents I would say...and it hurt them...

[arminius]

He was the man who took Ferrari to such success, he was one of the key improvers of the car. If he would have never gone to Ferrari, now Ferrari would be nothing, and the Team that would have held him, would be God... There at Ferrari, he's a driver and ingeneer at the same time, the whole team works around him....
GO SCHUMMI !!!
http://f1results.free.fr/2002/jap_schum.jpg
HIS CLASSIC JUMP, UNFORGETABLE !!!
it's all true, before schumi arrived ferrari hadn't won the driver's world championship since the 70's, is that a coincidence that they became so dominant when schumi arrived...besides he was already 2 times world champion with benneton......to ronaldo08 you keep saying it's the car but if it was then how come the last 5 seasons that schumi's finished as world champ barrichello has finished in 2nd place in the drivers championship only once, if the sucsess was due to the car then every year they'd be finishing the season as 1st and second....i know you only say this coz your a senna fan but face it, senna 3 times world champion compared to schumacher 7 times world champion, senna won 41 races compared to schumacher's 83 races.
Greatest of all time 1.schumacher, 2.fangio, 3. a toss up between senna and prost, 5.nikki lauda.

[RonaldoD08]

it's all true, before schumi arrived ferrari hadn't won the driver's world championship since the 70's, is that a coincidence that they became so dominant when schumi arrived...besides he was already 2 times world champion with benneton......to ronaldo08 you keep saying it's the car but if it was then how come the last 5 seasons that schumi's finished as world champ barrichello has finished in 2nd place in the drivers championship only once, if the sucsess was due to the car then every year they'd be finishing the season as 1st and second....i know you only say this coz your a senna fan but face it, senna 3 times world champion compared to schumacher 7 times world champion, senna won 41 races compared to schumacher's 83 races.
Greatest of all time 1.schumacher, 2.fangio, 3. a toss up between senna and prost, 5.nikki lauda.

Why didn't you mention the real things that depends on the driver...the pole positions...who is the best in that?

The reason why barrichelo didn't come second in 2003 is because Raikkonen is an awesome driver and had a decent car. He actually deserved to win the whole thing that time way more than Schumi.
In the other two years since 2002 Barrichelo was second after Schumi and way above the third. Now I don't see why you have to lie here...

Also if you are a F1 fan you must know that the team winns the race not only the driver. The driver gets a pole-position if he has a competitive car, but he cannot win the race on his own and Schimu's case if the team does not tell Barrichelo to let Schumi win. That's why Schumi won the championship in 2003 and that was a shame which made fia to rule out any communication regarding race positions from the team or any fake position switch.

Now if we take 2003 championship (for cheating) and 2002 with 2004 (for lack of competition other than barrichelo) then Schumi has only 4 Championships, which he deserves somehow cause even though in 2001 he didn't have a great competition either, finishing with twice the points of Coulthard...lol...:D

I would give Schumi three well deserved championships leaving him way below Senna cause the 15 win per season that Schumi has had in the last 4 years are BS.

[arminius]

Why didn't you mention the real things that depends on the driver...the pole positions...who is the best in that?

The reason why barrichelo didn't come second in 2003 is because Raikkonen is an awesome driver and had a decent car. He actually deserved to win the whole thing that time way more than Schumi.
In the other two years since 2002 Barrichelo was second after Schumi and way above the third. Now I don't see why you have to lie here...

Also if you are a F1 fan you must know that the team winns the race not only the driver. The driver gets a pole-position if he has a competitive car, but he cannot win the race on his own and Schimu's case if the team does not tell Barrichelo to let Schumi win. That's why Schumi won the championship in 2003 and that was a shame which made fia to rule out any communication regarding race positions from the team or any fake position switch.

Now if we take 2003 championship (for cheating) and 2002 with 2004 (for lack of competition other than barrichelo) then Schumi has only 4 Championships, which he deserves somehow cause even though in 2001 he didn't have a great competition either, finishing with twice the points of Coulthard...lol...:D

I would give Schumi three well deserved championships leaving him way below Senna cause the 15 win per season that Schumi has had in the last 4 years are BS.
Your correct about him finishing 2nd in 2002, but that's still only twice out of 5 years, as i said if the car was that superior to the rest(and with one of the best drivers in rubens)they should be finishing 1-2 more than twice out of 5 years.....I know you must be grasping at straws when you have to bring up pole positions, ask any driver what he'd prefer, to have the record for world title's and most races won or the record for pole positions, i think u know the answer to that one....besides that's about the only record schumi dosn't hold(and most by a big margin) and he will surely break that this year, coming into 2005 senna has 65,schumi 63......you can try and belittle schumi's accomplishments to make senna look better but the record books all point to schumacher being the greatest F1 driver ever.

[RonaldoD08]

Your correct about him finishing 2nd in 2002, but that's still only twice out of 5 years, as i said if the car was that superior to the rest(and with one of the best drivers in rubens)they should be finishing 1-2 more than twice out of 5 years.....I know you must be grasping at straws when you have to bring up pole positions, ask any driver what he'd prefer, to have the record for world title's and most races won or the record for pole positions, i think u know the answer to that one....besides that's about the only record schumi dosn't hold(and most by a big margin) and he will surely break that this year, coming into 2005 senna has 65,schumi 63......you can try and belittle schumi's accomplishments to make senna look better but the record books all point to schumacher being the greatest F1 driver ever.

Don't you think you should consider the number of pole positions per race too?

Now Barrichelo lost to Raikkonen and Montoya once and Schumi won to them because of his cheats-by 2 points. This means nothing more than Raikkonen and Montoya being great drivers and being able to recover the difference between Ferrari and their cars.
The other time Barrichelo lost to Coulthard just because Barrichelo sucks. Schumi got twice as many points as Coulthard and I don't think you can say that Schumi is twice as good as Coulthard...
And as I said I will give to Schumi the 2000 title as almost weel deserved. That makes three titles for him.
Now I wouldn't even say that Schumi deserved his titles with Benneton if you want us to consider everything. Don't you find it a weird coincidence that Schumi has won everytime his car was dominating...:confused:
Where was Schumi from 1995 to 2000? Ferrari was not exactly the worst team in those years...actually as far I remember they were the best and most power ful team financially...
Now if you look at 1995 you will see that Schumi's team was obviously dominating at the time too with Renault being the best engine in the competition. Just a coincidence huh?

Now as a result I would give Schumi only 2 championships (1994-2000) as all the other five were because of team dominance not personal dominance. I don't consider this last factor a coincidence as I don't think Schumi went from being the "best" to sucking and then being the "best" again. it does not work like that...
He won because of the car and lost because of fierce competition. The times when Mika and Schumi ran together through double and triple curves at the same pace with Mika coming out first-most of the times-were the best times of F1. I don't think Mclaren was better than Ferrari at that time...look at the stats...

[baggy]

C'mon guys, you don't need to disscuss about that, the facts are facts: a study made during a race to Schummi's eyes, by some small cameras, show that his eyes' movement is 3.5 times higher than the average. That does mean something, doesn't it? HE'S JUST THE BEST RACING MACHINE EVER!

[RonaldoD08]

C'mon guys, you don't need to disscuss about that, the facts are facts: a study made during a race to Schummi's eyes, by some small cameras, show that his eyes' movement is 3.5 times higher than the average. That does mean something, doesn't it? HE'S JUST THE BEST RACING MACHINE EVER!

Well that is an average in F1. You cannot compare a F1 pilot to the normal. Compare him to the F1 normal.

Do you know that a normal person will loose conscience at 1.5G while the average G for a F1 race is 2.5? That means that a normal person would die without even starting the race.

Also the eye movement depends on how much you want to move your eyes. If you keep staring at one point for two weeks it does not mean you are bad a t moving your eyes. It just means you don't want to move them...:D

[arminius]

C'mon guys, you don't need to disscuss about that, the facts are facts: a study made during a race to Schummi's eyes, by some small cameras, show that his eyes' movement is 3.5 times higher than the average. That does mean something, doesn't it? HE'S JUST THE BEST RACING MACHINE EVER!
Exactly, we should always go by the facts because the rest is just opinions and most peoples opinions will always be biased towards their own favourites.

[RonaldoD08]

Exactly, we should always go by the facts because the rest is just opinions and most peoples opinions will always be biased towards their own favourites.

65 pole positions is quite an important fact. This is how fast drivers are defined-from the number of pole positions....

Michael Schumacher is the most dominant driver of his era, but no one can say that he is the most talented driver of the fastest one...There are no facts to support that...

[Nikodemus]

That's why it's so fun to discuss about the greatest drivers. It's impossible to say who is world's best motorsports driver.
F1 is just one form of motor racing. For example Jacky Ickx is 6-time Le Mans winner and he also has wins in F1. But of course he can't be compared with Schumi and Schumi can't be compared with Ickx.

[Equis5]

Nano Alonso

LOL you break it! :)

[Nikodemus]

LOL you break it! :)
what?! I used his nickname just to get some variation. Not always write Fernando Alonso

[RonaldoD08]

For me the greatest driver of F1 is Mika Hakkinen. He is my favorite driver not because of stats, but because of his personality and I am sure Schumi agrees with me too in this.

As far as talent is concerned, the greatest driver in F1 is Ayrton Senna.

As far as dominance is concerned, Schumi has no rivals. Yet Schumi is one arrogant son of a bitch though...:D

[baggy]

For me the greatest driver of F1 is Mika Hakkinen. He is my favorite driver not because of stats, but because of his personality and I am sure Schumi agrees with me too in this.

As far as talent is concerned, the greatest driver in F1 is Ayrton Senna.

As far as dominance is concerned, Schumi has no rivals. Yet Schumi is one arrogant son of a bitch though...:D

Schummi arrogant? No way! Hakkinen talented? No way! Senna the best? No way!
C'mon, if you just don't like him, just admit that, and don't say that he isn't the best. And btw, in the previous post, about his eyes reflect, I was meaning "compared to the F1 average", it's quite clear I think...

[RonaldoD08]

Schummi arrogant? No way! Hakkinen talented? No way! Senna the best? No way!
C'mon, if you just don't like him, just admit that, and don't say that he isn't the best. And btw, in the previous post, about his eyes reflect, I was meaning "compared to the F1 average", it's quite clear I think...

hakkinen - personality
senna - talent
schumi - arrogance+cheap racing...(remember 1997?)

that's the way I put it...

you got it all messed up...:D

[baggy]

hakkinen - personality
senna - talent
schumi - arrogance

that's the way I put it...

you got it all messed up...:D

Ok, you know it, but no one messes up his 7 titles :D , so.....

[RonaldoD08]

Ok, you know it, but no one messes up his 7 titles :D , so.....

no one can mess up with his dominance of his contemporary drivers...yet raw statistics mean nothing if you don't consider a unified unit of measurement...

7 inches are not the same as 7 cm.

[baggy]

7 inches are not the same as 7 cm.

Exactly, 7 km are not the same as 3 Senna inches, nor as 2 Hakkinen cm. :smoking:

[RonaldoD08]

Exactly, 7 km are not the same as 3 Senna inches, nor as 2 Hakkinen cm. :smoking:


well it depends on what does a km an inch and a cm mean in your vocabolary because others have very different views...

[RonaldoD08]

Icon v Icon: Michael Schumacher vs Ayrton Senna

Michael Schumacher, Italian GP 2001© The Cahier ArchiveA fourth World Championship has taken Michael Schumacher past the three crowns of the late Ayrton Senna, the rival to whom he is most frequently compared and whose mantle Fate forced upon him. Without doubt the German deserves to be elevated into the heady company of men such as Senna, or four-time champion Alain Prost whose tally of titles and record of 51 GP victories Schumacher equalled in Hungary. But the question persists, when looking at their respective careers: has Michael Schumacher had it too easy?

Though neither of them goes out of their way to publicize the fact, former World Champions Alain Prost and Jackie Stewart believe that since the mid- to late Nineties there has been a dearth of genuine stars in F1.

After all, in Prost's day he had to vanquish rivals such as Gilles Villeneuve and Alan Jones; Didier Pironi and Rene Arnoux; Nelson Piquet and Nigel Mansell; Keke Rosberg; and, of course, Ayrton Senna.

Stewart likewise had to contend with Jimmy Clark; Graham Hill; Dan Gurney; John Surtees; Jack Brabham; Chris Amon; and Jochen Rindt. Any of them were as fast as Prost or Stewart on their day; it was other attributes that the Frenchman and the Scot called upon to beat them in the long haul.

The line of thinking prompts a question some may believe to be heresy. Has Michael Schumacher ever really had any genuine rivals?

"Where," Stewart once asked quietly, "has Michael's real opposition been?"

One leading sportscar journalist in 1991 bet his F1 colleagues that Schumacher would qualify in the top 10 for his first race at Spa, when he was signed by Eddie Jordan to replace the jailed Bertrand Gachot. Had there been any takers, Quentin Spurring would have won his bet. From that day onwards, observers began to realize that a new star had arrived. Back then Michael had to contend with Senna, Prost and Mansell as he learned his trade, but almost immediately he dealt with Benetton team-mate Nelson Piquet. True, Nelson was near the end of an illustrious career, but it was a telling indication of Schumacher's potential that he was right on the Brazilian's pace straight away and only missed outqualifying him in all of their races together when he missed a shift in Adelaide.












Ayrton Senna, Belgian GP 1991
© The Cahier Archive













Perhaps the most telling indication of all came at Suzuka that season, when Schumacher crashed very heavily in practice after trying - and failing - to take the notorious 130R corner flat out. Later, in the medical center, Professor Sid Watkins examined him.

"I told him that he had an excellent physique, and that he would make a very pretty corpse if he didn't slow down a little," Watkins later admitted. Asked some months later about the Prof's comment, Schumacher simply shrugged his shoulders as if he didn't know what the older man was talking about. But at the time his reaction had been even more decisive. He had gone back out, in Piquet's spare car, and gone faster than the Brazilian.

By the time that Schumacher and Ayrton Senna were in cars of equal capability, in 1993, the Brazilian still had the upper hand, but by the start of 1994 the boot was on the other foot. The Williams FW16 was initially a difficult machine, spoiled by aerodynamic shortcomings. But though he was beaten by the German in the first race, and then taken out of the second, Senna mistrusted Schumacher. He remained privately convinced that he was running some kind of traction control on the Benetton. The truth of that may never be known, but what is certain is that Senna's death at Imola denied everyone the chance of seeing what Michael Schumacher was really like as an upcoming racing driver pitched against the very best. We will never know if he would have been able to do to Senna what Senna had done to Prost, what Prost had done to Niki Lauda. Without question Schumacher is now the best driver of his era, but we will never know how he would have compared against another established great. There will always be that question: was he really racing against drivers who were just below his own gifted level? And would he have been fallible had he been under sustained pressure from somebody possessed of Senna's great gifts?

There is no question that Schumacher respected Senna, and Senna had a measure of respect for Schumacher. But the two never truly got on.

Senna was the first driver to praise the German's performance at Spa in 1991, and he made a mental note there and then that this young newcomer would eventually be trouble. But Schumacher himself lost no time in being openly critical of the maestro. It happened at Interlagos in 1992 when Senna beat him into third place while racing in front of his adoring fans. Afterwards, pressmen listened open-mouthed as Schumacher launched into a stinging public criticism of the tactics that Senna had used to keep him behind. Senna was not amused.

A few months later, at Magny-Cours, Schumacher pushed Senna off the track on the opening lap of the French GP. The race was red flagged, giving both men another chance. But on the grid before the restart, Senna gave Schumacher a serious talking to about his tactics. "Good," Senna laughed later to his friend Jo Ramirez at McLaren. "I've got him so rattled that he's going to do everything for me by taking himself off." Sure enough, when the race was restarted Schumacher fell off on the first lap, again at the Adelaide hairpin.

There was another incident later that year, during a test session at Hockenheim. This time Senna felt that Schumacher had deliberately pushed him off the track at very high speed, and lost no time going down to the Benetton pit afterwards. There, he grabbed the German by the throat and screamed at him until they were separated.

Though they were both very quick, the two had completely different characters. Some saw Senna as the emotional Latin; Schumacher as the cold Germanic computer who never showed any emotion. Senna's girlfriend Adrianne Galisteu wrote in her book how Ayrton would sit and watch Tina Turner at Adelaide in 1993, bouncing around in his seat in time to the music before joining the rock star on stage as she sang her song 'Simply The Best' in his honor. At the same time, she wrote, Michael simply sat rigidly the whole way through, merely clapping politely.

For all that, each recognized and acknowledged the other's talent. Senna knew that Schumacher was his biggest rival once Prost had retired; Schumacher knew that if he beat Senna, he would be recognized as the best. Some, such as Lauda, believed the batten had already been passed by Imola, but Ramirez is scornful of that view.

"For sure, Ayrton was driving a very bad car at the beginning of 1994. But he would have beaten Michael, I'm sure. Michael was, and still is, fallible under pressure, whereas Ayrton was not. He had no worries that he would beat Michael."

And at the end of the season, after scoring his controversial first World Championship, Schumacher himself admitted: "If Ayrton had still been with us, I would not be the one wearing this crown."

And Prost and Stewart might not be asking their question.


When Nigel Roebuck was asked on the British "Autosport" website, if he thinks that Michael Schumacher can be called the greatest driver ever, Nigel gave the following answer:
"Sorry, but no, I don't think Michael is 'the greatest driver ever in F1', although of course I count him among the greats. At one time we thought that Alain Prost's record of 51 Grand Prix victories was unlikely to be beaten, although the chances are that, had he lived, Ayrton Senna would have done it eventually; Senna was on 41 at the time of his death, in 1994.
Now, one really does start to think that Schumacher may be setting records that will never be beaten, but it has only begun to look that way in the last three years or so, since the Ferrari steamroller really got moving. Yes, he's won the World Championship three times on the trot now, but let's keep in mind that in his first eight-and-a-bit seasons of F1 he was champion only twice.
Why do I think that the sheer statistics of Michael's career may never be beaten? For one thing, he has had the best car for some time now, and I see no obvious reason why that situation should change, at least in the short term. For another, not only has he the fastest car, but also far and away the most reliable: his Ferrari always seems to finish...
....So why won't I go along that Schumacher's the greatest there's ever been? First, we have never seen him in equal cars with another truly great driver. At the end of 1987, Alain Prost could have said no to Ayrton Senna's joining him at McLaren the following year, but his belief was that the team should have the two strongest drivers available to it - and the arrival of Senna, however much it might hurt his own chances, guaranteed that. Almost throughout his F1 career, Schumacher has been partnered by a strict 'number two' - and one required to subjugate his own ambitions to those of Michael.
Second, I'm constantly amazed by the number of mistakes Schumacher still makes - although not so much in the races, I grant you. In practice and qualifying sessions, it's never a surprise to see the number one Ferrari spinning, and I find that curious for one of his ability and experience.
I could probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I saw Prost lose control of a car.
Third, under pressure Michael is definitely fallible - and in that respect was no match for Mika Hakkinen, who was invariably at his greatest when in a crucial situation, such as when a World Championship was to be settled in a single afternoon - as at Suzuka in 1998, when Schumacher stalled immediately before the formation lap.
Fourth - and to me this is the most crucial thing - we come to what the French like to call, 'le fair-play'. By his actions against Damon Hill, at Adelaide in 1994, and against Jacques Villeneuve, at Jerez in 1997, Michael showed that, when the chips are really down, he will do whatever it takes to win - including driving into his rival.
Apart from the move on Montoya at Interlagos, he has rarely needed to resort to such tactics this year (2002), such has been the superiority of his car, but time and again he has shown that he is prepared to do it, and I can't stomach that, I'm afraid. We all remember Hakkinen's classic pass of him at the top of the hill at Spa in 2000 - but do we also remember that, in the same place, a lap earlier, Michael moved over on Mika, at close to 200mph? Rather than fly off the road, Hakkinen backed out of it - but already Schuey's right rear wheel had clipped his front wing.
Hard racing is what F1 is all about, and rightly so, but to me intimidatory tactics have no place in it, and I'll never change my mind about that. I didn't like it when Ayrton Senna played this game, and I don't like it now, when Schumacher does it.
On sheer driving talent, Michael belongs in the pantheon, of that there is no doubt - but, in my opinion, there's a little more to it than that...."

(These are already quite a lot of arguments: Michael Schumacher has more collisions than Alain Prost and a lots more spins than Alain Prost)

"Michael Schumacher is the better driver than Alain Prost!"

(Many people wrote this. I would like to point out that Alain Prost was having several team-mates who were World Champions: Niki Lauda (3 times), Keke Rosberg (1 time), Ayrton Senna (3 times), Nigel Mansell (1 time), Damon Hill (1 time). So, five of Alain's team-mates were F1 World Champions. All of them together won 9 Championships! Michael Schumacher had only one team-mate, who was a F1 World Champion: Nelson Piquet (3 times champion). Anyway, they were team-mates for five races only. In these five races, Schumacher won 4 points and Nelson Piquet 6 points. Schumacher is the clear number 1 driver at Ferrari, and doesn't allow Heinz-Harald Frentzen in the team. And, as they say, "Fangio didn't need team-order"! Ask Eddie Irvine or Rubens Barrichello, how often they had to let Michael Schumacher pass (not only at the end of races). And we will never forget the Austrian GP 2002 - If Senna would have had to drive for Alain Prost in 1988, Alain would have won almost all the races!)

"Schumacher has the better statistics".

(That's true, but there are some things to remember: First of all, for the above reasons (no team-mates on the same level), it's easier for Michael Schumacher to win more points and races. Also, when Alain drove, he got 9 points, nowadays they get 10 points. Schumacher's Ferrari is more reliable than any car Alain ever drove.)

"Michael Schumacher won more World Championships!"

(Again, that's true, again I would like to remind you that there is nobody else in such a reliable car as the Ferrari is right now (in 2002) - Also, I would like to give a fact that Alain Prost-fan "Holiday" pointed out to me: with today's F1 scoring system, Alain would be seven times World Champion: 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1993)

"In 1983 Prost was beaten by Piquet 57:59 points. He won 4 races that year to Piquet's 3. Neither driver scored more than 11 times so didn't give up any points. Today's point system will give Piquet the title with 62 points to Prost's 61. Therefore Prost is 6 times WC if we use today's scoring system and you have to correct your above sig!..."

(In Brazil 1983 Keke Rosberg was 2nd but disqualified. No driver got 6 points in this race. Today every driver would climb up one place (3rd becomes 2nd, 4th becomes 3rd and so on). Alain Prost was 7th in this GP...)

"I've just read your comparative between Schumacher, Senna and Prost. For me, the most important point is that Alain was world champion in 86 with McLaren. Why? Because it's the only recent case of winning a F1 championship without the best car on the grid. Remember that Mansell and Piquet (Williams-Honda) used a Japanese V6 giving 150 - 200 Hp more than the V6 TAG-Porsche in qualifyings and more than 100 in the race. Schumacher, Senna, Piquet, Villeneuve, Hill, Mansell, Häkkinen won using the best car of the season. Not Prost in 1986. And he was able to do that for the second time in 1990. But unfortunately Senna didn't want him to do so... Senna was in this situation in 1993. He couldn't. Schumacher too in 96-97-98-99. And Jean Todt called Alain in 97: "Please go back to Ferrari, Schumacher needs help". But Mr Todt is a fantastic team manager and he transformed Ferrari in the best team".


"Schumacher is so arrogant. You just have to look at his helmet and caps! He has five stars on them, one for each F1 championship title. Did you ever see Fangio, Prost, Villeneuve, Hill or Lauda with something similar? No way! Also, Schumacher spun out in many races and still finished on the podium or even won the race. He is just very lucky!"


"If Alain Prost hadn't retired at the end of 1993, he'd have won a lot more titles and been on top for a lot longer. That's where Michael is at now: he's in the best car and isn't about to retire, so he's setting a lot of records".

(A quote from Juan-Pablo Montoya in F1 Racing...)

"I think there is a point everyone has failed to notice in this discussion. The correspondent who pointed out that Prost had team mates who were champions gets close. - The more important consideration is this: Prost raced against multiple champions such as Piquet, Lauda, Senna and Mansell and single winners such as Rosberg and Jones. All at the same period. Schumacher has never had a serious challenger. Häkkinen and Villeneuve were only ever briefly competitive. Hill was always competitive but we know how dear Michael resolves those issues eh. He likes bashing people off the road. - The fact is, in every race Prost started anyone in the top 10 grid positions was capable of winning the race. - Turbo ground effects cars were not the semi remote controlled cars Schumacher drives. Automatics, launch control, traction control pace cars... what a joke F1 is now. I cannot imagine Kimi Raikkönen doing 3 or 4 crap races then getting into a Renault RE20B turbo and being competitive. I think todays F1 is a joke. - I firmly believe the turbo/ground effects era was a genuine golden age in F1. The cars were fast and unruly. The drivers had balls like very large round things. There were always 6 teams with fast enough cars to win. We had 2 distinct engine and chassis packages to choose from which just added to the spectacle".


Now read these two comparisons between Schumi and Senna and Schumi and Prost. You will recognise the inch and cm concepts...

Also I would like to remind you about one thing. It was not when Schumacher arrived to Ferrari that Ferrari started to recover. It was when Todt arrived in Maranello not Schumi. Also who was the first to win a championship? Schumi or Ferrari?

Now let's consider the latest rivalries...

Senna vs Prost
Schumi vs Hill
Hill vs Villenueve
Hakkinen vs Schumi
Schumi vs Barrichelo...:D

So only the 1994 Championship was actually a real competition for Schumi...:confused:

[baggy]

Now read these two comparisons between Schumi and Senna and Schumi and Prost. You will recognise the inch and cm concepts...

Now, u wanna start a fight in here or what??? j/k :silly:

(hehe, mos u merr ma me ket pune se te gjith e dine qe Schummi esht ma i mir :silly: )

[RonaldoD08]

Now, u wanna start a fight in here or what??? j/k :silly:

(hehe, mos u merr ma me ket pune se te gjith e dine qe Schummi esht ma i mir :silly: )

Another statistics that shows us how good Schumacher is, is Barrichelo's career.


04 - 2/114p
03 - 4/65p
02 - 2/77p
01 - 3/56p
00 - 4/62p
99 - 7/21p
98 - 12/4p
97 - 13/6p
96 - 8/14p
95 - 11/11p
94 - 6/19p
93 - 18/2p

Now, did Ferrari become better since Barrichelo came or Barrichelo has become better since he came to Ferrari? I don't think neither of these happened. It is just that Barrichelo is driving a Ferrari and no matter how bad he is, he still can score points.

93-98 Barrichelo had 56 points. In 2001 he had 56 points...obviously this shows that Barrichelo is a great driver does it or not. As most of you can see, dry statistics mean nothing if you don't have a unified measuring system.

(lexoje artikullin e kie me kuptue kush asht ma i miri...:D )

[arminius]

For me the greatest driver of F1 is Mika Hakkinen. He is my favorite driver not because of stats, but because of his personality and I am sure Schumi agrees with me too in this.

As far as talent is concerned, the greatest driver in F1 is Ayrton Senna.

As far as dominance is concerned, Schumi has no rivals. Yet Schumi is one arrogant son of a bitch though...:D
The only people who say schumacher is arrogant are the people envious of his sucsess, that montoya is a first rate loser, having stars on your helmet that represent world titles makes you arrogant? what a loser..according to that logic then brazil and germany do the same with their national team jerseys, does that make them arrogant.....Also any article from the english concerning any german will always be biased, those people have issues.
Iv'e watched schumi in i don't know how many interviews and if anything he always comes across as being humble and modest.....The only thing i agree with you on is hakkinen, he was a great driver(2nd best in the schumi era) and also seems like a decent guy.

[RonaldoD08]

The only people who say schumacher is arrogant are the people envious of his sucsess, that montoya is a first rate loser, having stars on your helmet that represent world titles makes you arrogant? what a loser..according to that logic then brazil and germany do the same with their national team jerseys, does that make them arrogant.....Also any article from the english concerning any german will always be biased, those people have issues.
Iv'e watched schumi in i don't know how many interviews and if anything he always comes across as being humble and modest.....The only thing i agree with you on is hakkinen, he was a great driver(2nd best in the schumi era) and also seems like a decent guy.

Now what about 1997? What happened to Schumi in 1997?

Also there are a lot of statistics you don't consider about Schumacher, like the number of accidents-caused by him-the number of control losses, the number of fights, the number of mistakes....
These are what determine a great driver, not winning a race with 6 laps of advantage as there is no way a human being can be 6 laps better than another human being...that would require Schumi to win every pole positions by at least 5 seconds of advantage, yet he has never done that...
Also Schumi always happens to finish the race unless he gets into an accident with someone or just looses control of the car because of an accident. His Farrari has never let him down...

[Nikodemus]

When Mika Häkkinen won his championships Ferrari and McLaren were the best. Ferrari was becoming better and better and Mercedes raising McLaren. McLaren-Mercedes wasn't dominating. Constructor points tell that. Mika won Schumacher in quite equal championship fight. You can't say Mika is not talented or fast. Sure Goodyear was leaving F1 and Ferrari used their tires but...
Senna is a legent and I think Schumacher can't reach his level of respect no matter how many titles he wins. Senna's and Schumi's primes are on different F1 eras so again too hard to compare.

[Nikodemus]

Again great race. Best race so far this season IMO. Ferrari is coming. No team is dominating. The way Schumacher and Ferrari played with tactics and speed is fantastic. The laps after the first pit stops were really entertaining. Schumacher fought hard and gained 2nd place. Alonso fought back and kept Schumi behind. If this Renault's pace continues Fernando will become the youngest world champion in F1 history.

[arminius]

Despite being 26 points behind alonso i'm still very confident schumacher will again take the title.

[A3eMurderer]

Despite being 26 points behind alonso i'm still very confident schumacher will again take the title.

I would agree with Alonso. Ferrari are back again, they are just too good. However, I must say Alonso avoided schumacher brilliantly yesterday. He really is a good driver, but schumacher is better and Alonso doesn't have a ferrari.

[Nikodemus]

Definitely true! When Scuderia starts coming they come hard fast and reliably. Schumacher can handle the F2005 nicely from the beginning but for Rubinho it takes time to get right with the car. When both Ferraries are driving like they did last year Alonso alone can't beat them. He'll need help from Fisico who should stay on the track to do it.

[Equis5]

Well, I think this is like la Liga. If Schumacher hasn't won any race till now, and Alonso has won 3 of 4; maybe the things will go that way. At least for a time. Let's see next race, in Spain, better for Renault's tires than for Bridgestone.

[Adriano#10Inter]

Who Cares Not Me Asses

[Nikodemus]

I care but I am a motorsports fan...

The race in Barcelona yesterday. Kimi won. McLaren-Mercedes came back. Renault and Alonso are still incredibly strong. Second place. Toyota is also doing great. Trulli took third place and Ralf fourth.
Quite boring race IMO though. Kimi lead from start to finish and others behind him didn't have big tough fights. I guess Schumi could have made it more interesting because he was fighting for podium positions before his rear tires blew. Bridgestone is still far behind Michelin in warmer conditions.

[arminius]

If Schumacher's gonna have any chance for the title this year he really has to start getting a few wins under his belt soon, i don't doubt at some point this season he'll probably string 3 or 4 wins together but the problem is the renaults seem very reliable so even when schumi's getting 10, alonso will probably be getting 8 or 6, so making up the points difference is gonna be a long process......if it turns out schumi dosn't take the title i'd prefer raikkonen in the merc over alonso in a renault.

[RonaldoD08]

If Schumacher's gonna have any chance for the title this year he really has to start getting a few wins under his belt soon, i don't doubt at some point this season he'll probably string 3 or 4 wins together but the problem is the renaults seem very reliable so even when schumi's getting 10, alonso will probably be getting 8 or 6, so making up the points difference is gonna be a long process......if it turns out schumi dosn't take the title i'd prefer raikkonen in the merc over alonso in a renault.

So you gave up huh? You like mercedes now huh?...:silly:

[arminius]

So you gave up huh? You like mercedes now huh?...:silly:
no i havn't given up, just saying it's gonna be very tough to make up the points, i would'nt be to surprised if he still ended the season as world champ though.....and i'm not saying i support raikkonen, just that i'd prefer him over alonso, plus i like to see the german cars do well......ideally i'd have prefered schumi to be driving mercedes.

[RonaldoD08]

ideally i'd have prefered schumi to be driving mercedes.

what a coincidence...that's what I prefer too....:silly:

[Adriano#10Inter]

isn't F1 like that redneck sport NASCAR, i mean its all the same cars going in circles well at least NASCAR, in F1 they actually turn "right"

[RonaldoD08]

isn't F1 like that redneck sport NASCAR, i mean its all the same cars going in circles well at least NASCAR, in F1 they actually turn "right"

:confused:

[Adriano#10Inter]

:confused:
do you know what i mean :smoking:

[Adriano#10Inter]

the hell is that ":evil:"

[Adriano#10Inter]

hell yea

[Adriano#10Inter]

freakin Dale Earnhart

[Adriano#10Inter]

y ***ker

[Adriano#10Inter]

go eat a cookie

[Adriano#10Inter]

Also On T.V All You See Is White People In The Stands, Car Pit, And Even The Announcers Are WHITE

even the...........CARS are white :smoking:

[Adriano#10Inter]

Damn That Is Really A Red Neck Sport. Dont You Agree Adriano
yes chris i sure do

[Adriano#10Inter]

I Mean C'Mon The Cars Are Probably The WHITEST Thing In The Damn Track!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:cap:

[Adriano#10Inter]

wat do you wish to discuss

[Adriano#10Inter]

okay calm down

[RaulMadrid7]

....?

[Adriano#10Inter]

wat cat got ur tongue

[RonaldoD08]

Interesting specs of this year's cars.

F. Alonso & G. Fisichella Renault - 940 bhp RS-25
K. Raikkonen & J. Montoya McLaren - 920 bhp Mercedes Benz FO-110R
J. Trulli & R. Schumacher Toyota - 935 bhp RVX-05
M. Webber Williams - 938 bhp BMW P84/5
M. Schumacher Ferrari - 935 bhp 053M
D. Coulthard Red Bull - 915 bhp Cosworth Racing TJ 2005
J. Button BAR - 955 bhp Honda RA005E
F. Massa Sauber - 925 bhp Petronas 05A (Ferrari 053)

[Nikodemus]

yeah. But F1 engines' specs change in every race with different settings. And they develope them all the time.
I read that BMW-Williams can take even 950 hp out of their P84/5. And what I find surprizing is that some sources say Toyota's RVX-05 can be most powerful with about 970 hp with less rpm than BMW. Sure it's not all about engine power. It's the way they get it on the road.
I'd like them to have turbo's back. Atleast when V10's are changed to V8's. When in the beginning of 80's Brabham's BMW turbo engine could generate up to 1400 hp. Mad...!

[Nikodemus]

Well this time the race was interesting even though Räikkönen won. Of course the race was Grand Prix de Monte-Carlo! My favourite.
But Kimi wasn't involved with the interesting part IMO. I wonder where Renault's performance went in the middle of the race. The second half of the race Alonso went down and finished 4th.
Ferrari or atleast Bridgestone still not back on their level. 7th and 8th.

[arminius]

bad luck for raikkonen in germany, but was happy to see heidfeld get 2nd again.....still waiting for schumi to have a breakthrough.

[Nikodemus]

Hahaa! Historical GP but in a bad way. Good thing is that the championship title fight is getting tighter.
Michelin teams' claims for an extra chikane were kind of useless. The track can't be changed to help teams in their problems. It's in the rules and regulations.
The spectators in Indy were really stupid. Throwing bottles on the track. The tire thingie wasn't Ferrari's fault. Totally unsportive behavior. C'mon! The race wasn't more boring than some NASCAR and IRL races raced on full oval...

[Nikodemus]

Michael Schumacher is back on the pole. Schumi took his 64th pole in Hungary. Now he's just one pole from Senna's record.
Montoya was is 2nd on the grid and Trulli 3rd. Alonso sixth.
The track was extremely hot during the qualifying. And Bridgestone has used to be better on colder surface. Weird or they just have got the grip back to the F2005. Hopefully we'll see great fight tomorrow.

[Bosanac]

CHORES

1. smoke weed
2. sniff weed
3. smoke pot
4. sniff coke
5. ask others if they want weed,pot or coke



Haha :lol: :lol:

[Nikodemus]

damn! Kimi won and Fernando got left without points. Alonso's car got screwed up in the first turn.
Quite interesting race even though all the position changing happened during the pit stops.
Ferrari is strong again. If their tires just have worked during the last quarter of the race Schumacher might have won. Nice to see them back anyways.
Schumi 2nd.
Both Toyota's were good too. Ralf 3rd and Trulli 4th.