Do you celebrate CHRISTmas?

[Ese_Guy]

Do you celebrate CHRISTmas?
What would you like to receive this CHRISTmas?

[MarieL]

I celebrate Xmas. Though I'm kinda forced to celebrate it. I just want chocolate and some cds.

[valdanito_10]

i want santa to give the kids a chnace

[MarieL]

i want santa to give the kids a chnace
Oooh, that is soooo sweet! :silly:
I hope he does.

[PrAvI HrVaT]

i do, im croatian, catholic



croatian=catholic

[FORZA_PIRLO]

iPod i want an iPod!!!!!!!!

[Hat_Trick_Playa]

haha

[Mexico Kid]

I want the girl ive been going out with for 2 weeks TO PUT OUT ALREADY!!! :D :D :D

[valdanito_10]

interesting wishes!!!

paula not sweet, but fair!

[Jesus]

I want the girl ive been going out with for 2 weeks TO PUT OUT ALREADY!!! :D :D :D

I pray that you get your wish this year. Make it a good one!

[Sgt.Miller]

:D

Jesus gets me everytime.

:ronaldo:

[Leon of Silvren]

I also hope those kids do get the chance.......

And I don't celebrate Xmas, well at least not in the way everybody celebrates it, I do go to dinners and receive and give gifts, but I don't feel like a special day, I guess the whole marketing crap has taken away my Xmas spirit..... :dontcare:

[valdanito_10]

thats what its all about!

or is it not?


:silly:

[Leon of Silvren]

Nowadays it is. :mad:

[valdanito_10]

i suggest u study marketing so u can enjoy x-mas more

[Ese_Guy]

Ever since it became X-mas, CHRISTmas has not been the same.
What kids are you talking about Val?

[valdanito_10]

some kids im trainning, that have much talent... but beeing here in Dom Rep they will never get a chance to become someone in the world of football, so i am working on a project within lazio to open the door to these kids!


its wasted talent and they love football, and just because they dont live in a country with open doors to it doesnt mean they dont deserve to be seen! its unfair!

all i want is for lazio to listen to my request, if anyone else has any other options to other cllubs or something, a sort of connection! dont hesitate to tell me

[Ese_Guy]

I wish you and all the other kids that have the misfortune of maybe never being "discoverd", luck with your endeavors.

[lsgworldl]

I dont do anything for xmas

[theman]

Well my ma is Jewish,which I guess makes me Jewish,but my Dad(the evil bastard)is Catholic so I used to celebrate,but know that I've left home not really.
Personally I don't go for all that religous bullshit,I don't believe in God.

[Leon of Silvren]

Well my mother is catholic, but I don't consider myself catholic anymore, I do believe in god, but not in catholic's god or any other known god. We really should have a religion debate, but I don't wanna be the one who makes the first step.....

BTW I want to say I hate Santa, he's like some sort of anti-Christ for me, he represents all that is twisted about xmas......

[Hat_Trick_Playa]

I dont celebrate Xmas

[nzbm]

I am a practising Catholic so I celebrate Christmas.
The problem is that Christmas has been so commercialised many people forget the meaning of christmas. Leon I am going to start a religion thread. Hopefully I don't get too flamed...

[PrAvI HrVaT]

I am a practising Catholic so I celebrate Christmas.
The problem is that Christmas has been so commercialised many people forget the meaning of christmas. Leon I am going to start a religion thread. Hopefully I don't get too flamed...
oh u will!

[Leon of Silvren]

Then I'm going to back you up!

[valdanito_10]

i have a grich t-shit, and thanks carlo!s

[Leon of Silvren]

Do you like to being called Carlos or Ese?? I personally like more 'Ese', is like the term took out of the mexican trashy language.....k hay carnal?? :silly:

BTW my name is Carlos too.....but don't call me that way. :annoyed:

[devious]

Do you like to being called Carlos or Ese?? I personally like more 'Ese', is like the term took out of the mexican trashy language.....k hay carnal?? :silly:

BTW my name is Carlos too.....but don't call me that way. :annoyed:
Cool we have 2 carloses!! :D :D
I`m a Muslim so we don`t celebraite cristmas as families, but we share and celebrate with our nighterhoods and friends, we go out dinner or have parties and week ends with each other.... in Egypt we always share the happy days and celebrate, religion was never have been a some thing that makes us differnet.
Relationships is for Us, Religion is for God. that`s how we live in Egypt. :thumbsup:

[Leon of Silvren]

Great post devious, 'relationships are for us, religion is for god'. :thumbsup:

(however I didn't liked the first part.....:annoyed: )

[djani]

Yes I do celebrate Christmas, two of them actually. The Catholic and Orthodox. And I have to agree with a lot of people who said that Christmas is basically a commercial holiday, it's all about shopping and getting gifts and partying. Some people forget the holiday spirit of giving or helping the less fortunate. Personally I go to midnight mass and usually pray and light a candle for my mom. I do get and give gifts but the important thing to me is spending that precious time with my family and friends and I usually end my holiday season with volunteer work at the homeless shelter or hospitals. Everybody deserves to have fun and enjoy themselves during the holidays no matter what your religion is.


PS: Devious- You're Egyptian? cool, I wanna come see the pyramids, send me a two way ticket(j/k). ;)

[devious]

Great post devious, 'relationships are for us, religion is for god'. :thumbsup:

(however I didn't liked the first part.....:annoyed: )
Sorry! but which part you didn`t like?
that Im Muslim? or we live in peace in Egypt? Or we don`t have sociel differences?? may be celebrating and having parties??

Sorry djani, but if I have a ticket I would go myself although Egyptions don`t interest in the pyramids too much, I mean these things only for torrists.

[boban_10]

Originally posted by 'themanisme'

Well my ma is Jewish,which I guess makes me Jewish,but my Dad (the evil bastard) is Catholic so I used to celebrate,but know that I've left home not really.
Personally I don't go for all that religous bullshit,I don't believe in God.


You wait ' themanisme ', when you get judged you'll be sorry.

Originally posted by 'nzbm'

The problem is that Christmas has been so commercialised many people forget the meaning of christmas.

I know. Sad isn't it.

[devious]

Originally posted by 'themanisme'

Well my ma is Jewish,which I guess makes me Jewish,but my Dad (the evil bastard) is Catholic so I used to celebrate,but know that I've left home not really.
Personally I don't go for all that religous bullshit,I don't believe in God.


You wait ' themanisme ', when you get judged you'll be sorry.

Originally posted by 'nzbm'

The problem is that Christmas has been so commercialised many people forget the meaning of christmas.

I know. Sad isn't it.
I think someone was a bout to open a religon thread, I say no need for that cause we already on the religion talks conversations.. :rolleyes:

[djani]

lol, yeah I know what you mean if I had a ticket I wouldn't give it up either. I'm part Muslim too. Are you a Sunni or a Shiite? (if you don't mind me asking).

[Leon of Silvren]

The part that you said 'we have two carloses'.....

[devious]

I don`t know, but I can see the ppl that don`t belive in God are just.. let`s say lazy, I mean they don`t want to wake up in the morning to go to churche on sundays (for cristians) or wake up to pray the friday prayers (for Muslims) so they run away from all of this and just say (I don`t belive in God), cause I pet with all of my money that they do belive that there a God who rule this world and put every single law in it.
but they are just seeking for some things that they think that it will help them to prove that there is no God.
I can say waste of time, and waste of souls that will propably burn in hell :(
but in Islam we don`t usualy talk abput other`s belives, we are not alawed to judge such ppl or say anything to them unless they wanted to. in Islam Religion is for God.

[devious]

The part that you said 'we have two carloses'.....
loool!! I forget I`ve said that :ronaldo: :ronaldo:
sorry pal, I won`t say that WE HAVE 2 CARLOSES again :p :p

No problems djani, let`s say I`m a Sunni!
but I didn`t understand the part you are a half Muslim?

[ItalianBoy]

Of course I do! And I am finally getting an M-16!

[valdanito_10]

religion is a big question mark when it comes regarding me!

i have the tendancy to believe in what i see, i am atheus! but i ave my doubts if theres something beyond this

[ItalianBoy]

I am atheist too valda, but in Italy everyone celebrates xmas since its a way to be with your family who you probably see 2 times a year.

[djani]

loool!! I forget I`ve said that :ronaldo: :ronaldo:
sorry pal, I won`t say that WE HAVE 2 CARLOSES again :p :p

No problems djani, let`s say I`m a Sunni!
but I didn`t understand the part you are a half Muslim?

Yeah kind of! My mom is Bosnian(Muslim) and Croatian(Catholic) and my dad is full blooded Serb(Orthodox). So that makes me the mutt of the Balkans.

[ItalianBoy]

djani my love, sorry but I had to go for a while. Yet I came back just for you. How are you my dear?

[devious]

Yeah kind of! My mom is Bosnian(Muslim) and Croatian(Catholic) and my dad is full blooded Serb(Orthodox). So that makes me the mutt of the Balkans.
Oh my God! :( I wonder how you still alive?
I`m kidding.. so what`s YOUR religion?

[ItalianBoy]

Dman I was kidding. I am an atheist mate. I think all religions are bs.

[Sgt.Miller]

The fact that I can ejaculate with a high fever proves to me that there is a God, and such a God is responsible for these miracles.

:smoking:

[Leon of Silvren]

You can't really say you're an atheist, there's no such thing, we all believe in a god, just in our very own ways, there's always a feeling that someone or something is greater than us, something beyond our thinkings, something that we can't comprehend.

That's why I believe in my own religion (if you can call it that way). I personally think that religions have been the most ancient way to control the masses. And some of them are really twisted, like the catholic one.

[nzbm]

Leon, have you read the Da Vinci code by Dan Brown?

[devious]

Have anyone read the Miracle of the Quran.. a book has God`s words..
It`s Muslims book.. It has predicted the all accidents and big things that happened in our time, and has written in it the rules that If human beings respect it and do what it says, human will live in peace in life and after death (other side) and also it contains how God created humans and how the babies grow in thier Mams and it tooked about the Big bang and the system of the Universe and the other ppl live in another worlds and planets...
this book is 1500 years old.. This is the book that God have given to the Muslim`s Prophet Muhammed.
This book known to all the scientists around the world that it is the Miracle.
I hope you guys can read about it, it will paralyze your body. I garantu you.

[valdanito_10]

religion was made to promote peace to the world

[theman]

Who here believes in god,and who thinks religion is ruining the world?Oh and Leon,what is a Z moderator?

[ItalianBoy]

religion was made to promote peace to the world
No Leon, there are some of us who think god and religion and anything spiritual is bs. Opinions u know.

[Ese_Guy]

What's the plural form of Carlos?

While it may not seem that way, I am Catholic. Catholic = Christian, i.e. believe that Christ is the son of God and that Chirst came into this world so that you and I may be saved from the damnation of hell.

Christianity should = love, simply because that is what Jesus taught. Unfortunately man's eagerness to convert the whole world to Christianty has caused wars, etc. It has been their interpretation of the Bible. One cannot and should force a religion or belief onto others. All we can do is lead by example.

In my household, we celebrate the Birth of Christ. At the same time, we take part in the tradition of giving gifts, much like the wise men did for Jesus. It is very unfortunate that CHRISTmas has been so commercialized. Honestly though, I do not blame commerce; it's their duty to make money, to sell for the most profit possible.
We should, however, remeber what the holiday (HOLLY DAY) was originally intended for.

"For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not, no explanation will do."

[Leon of Silvren]

Leon, have you read the Da Vinci code by Dan Brown?
Yes I have, great book. Althought I didn't base my opinions on that book, but on scientific researches. (the catholic mess I mean)

[Leon of Silvren]

Have anyone read the Miracle of the Quran.. a book has God`s words..
It`s Muslims book.. It has predicted the all accidents and big things that happened in our time, and has written in it the rules that If human beings respect it and do what it says, human will live in peace in life and after death (other side) and also it contains how God created humans and how the babies grow in thier Mams and it tooked about the Big bang and the system of the Universe and the other ppl live in another worlds and planets...
this book is 1500 years old.. This is the book that God have given to the Muslim`s Prophet Muhammed.
This book known to all the scientists around the world that it is the Miracle.
I hope you guys can read about it, it will paralyze your body. I garantu you.
Looks interesting, but Nostradamus also could predict the future -most people say- maybe I'll get that book now that I'm not reading anything right now.

[Leon of Silvren]

No Leon, there are some of us who think god and religion and anything spiritual is bs. Opinions u know.
Sorry man I'm with you in that religion is bs -actually it isn't, men made it that way over the years- but if you think spiritual is bs too, let me tell you you're empty in the inside.....

And themanisme I don't know, it was something it came to mind.

[MarieL]

I don't believe in god or anything of the sort. I do get superstitious sometimes and say that something was 'meant to be', so I guess I do believe in destiny of somekind, only when it's about something positive though. And I do use the word soulmate so I must think that there is something spiritual around. But I don't think there is some higher being whose pulling the strings and who we should obey, nothing like that, so I do call myself an atheist.
Even if I did believe, which just isn't possible, I'm waaaay too much of a science person, I wouldn't follow any religion. Why do people always have to be part of some group? Can't they think for themselves? There are some good things about some religions like Shinto and Buddhism but a lot of things I find useless nonsense so no way would I be a part of that.
Every religion has their holy books and I've read them enough to know that the things they contain are extremely vague. Everyone can interpret them just about any way they please. It's almost like poetry. That's why I don't like it when people talk about their interpretations like they are actual facts.
Anyways, I can't see how anyone can call the people who don't believe lazy. To me religion is the easy way out. You have an answer for everything thanks to some book, and every time something bad happens you can think that there is a reason for it. That's basically what the whole religion is for, not to promote peace (most wars are about religion), but to give people an explanation for things they can't comprehend, and for comfort. IMO finding out all the stuff science has come up with and actually understanding it takes way more of an effort than taking everything in some holy book as the truth. That makes the religious people the lazy ones to me. Most of them choose to stay ignorant.

So no, I don't believe. Don't see any reason I should.

[djani]

Oh my God! :( I wonder how you still alive?
I`m kidding.. so what`s YOUR religion?

lol, tx. I guess I follow both, but I'm not that religious. I only go to church and mosque for holidays or to drop off donations(alms). And Italianboy- how sweet you came back just for me-> :kiss: ! I think that all people should have the right to follow their religion or not to if they choose not to believe in God. Power to the PEOPLE!

PS: Mariel- very well said, I agree to some extent.


:)

[Ese_Guy]

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
- Albert Einstein

"All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree."
- Albert Einstein

Contrary to popular belief, The Bible did not just happen to fall out of the sky. The old testament was written centuries before the Catholic Church composed the new testament. Today's Bible (old testament) should contain the exact same books Jesus' Bible contained. The new testament books were compiled in around the 4th century, then re-confirmed about three times later.
The Catholic Church relies on "oral tradition" which has been handed down from Peter and the rest of the Apostles and all through out the centuries. This same oral tradition is what has been used for thousands of years, even before Jesus.
It wasn't until Martin Luther that the Bible began to change. I don't blame ML for taking a stance, given the state of the Church in that day. Ever since then and with the help of the printing press the Protestant Bible has changed and lost books - from the old testament, so it's not like the one Jesus used anymore.

The reason I stay with the Catholic church is because of the oral tradition and the fact that they were the authors of the Bible we know today. We can all look at a verse and interpret it any way we want, that is the danger. Fortunately we have the Catholic Church to help explain what the original author meant or intended to convey. We need to understand the context in which the Holy Scripture was written and its purpose.

As a Catholic, I believe and know that man wrote the Bible. But we also believe that it was inspired by God. The Bible was written for us to understand who God is and with the help of the Holy Spirit we are able to discern the message and communicate with God.

[devious]

Mariel, I`m sure you did`t read or even hear any thing about the Quran God Book.
this book have changed lifes and minds of many peopls around the world in every time.. the last known ppl was Will Smith and Claudia Shefer, simply cause they just have read it and they were searching the truth they were looking for, them and many ppl arond the world that have had many other religions, I think you should find this book although the government in all Europe and USA prevent this book to enter thier countries, cause they know how dangerous to let ppl know the truth.
there are many things that you don`t know or understand in this life, this book don`t tell you that there is a God and you MUST obay, no.. this book tells you why and how there is a God. this book have saved many ppl from thier dirty souls and minds.
the problem is some ppl have misunderstand some meanings included in this book, and they are some ones like Benladen who says that he is a Muslim, but in fact he isn`t.. he have just used some meanings and sentenced in this book to make a power to destroy anything he wants., this man shall be punshed from God.
Mariel, If you are looking for the truth, why you are alive now, why you will die in a time that you don`t know, why even you have been born.. If you realy care for your life and destiny.. all I want you to do is to search for this book, (I`m sure they have translate it into your languge but the problem is it`s so diffecult to find in your countries in Europe or America) and If you want to live it like that.. Lazy, don`t care.. just live your life as you want. it`s your life.. but for how much years? forever!?, I think you should ask yourself this question.
I hope you can understand what I mean and good luck.

[ItalianBoy]

Why are you getting offensive Leon? I am empty in the inside? Right, that means you are FULL OF IT THEN? :dead:

[ItalianBoy]

And djani, you said you were gonna give me your phone number? What happen girl? :D

[Leon of Silvren]

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
- Albert Einstein

"All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree."
- Albert Einstein

Contrary to popular belief, The Bible did not just happen to fall out of the sky. The old testament was written centuries before the Catholic Church composed the new testament. Today's Bible (old testament) should contain the exact same books Jesus' Bible contained. The new testament books were compiled in around the 4th century, then re-confirmed about three times later.
The Catholic Church relies on "oral tradition" which has been handed down from Peter and the rest of the Apostles and all through out the centuries. This same oral tradition is what has been used for thousands of years, even before Jesus.
It wasn't until Martin Luther that the Bible began to change. I don't blame ML for taking a stance, given the state of the Church in that day. Ever since then and with the help of the printing press the Protestant Bible has changed and lost books - from the old testament, so it's not like the one Jesus used anymore.

The reason I stay with the Catholic church is because of the oral tradition and the fact that they were the authors of the Bible we know today. We can all look at a verse and interpret it any way we want, that is the danger. Fortunately we have the Catholic Church to help explain what the original author meant or intended to convey. We need to understand the context in which the Holy Scripture was written and its purpose.

As a Catholic, I believe and know that man wrote the Bible. But we also believe that it was inspired by God. The Bible was written for us to understand who God is and with the help of the Holy Spirit we are able to discern the message and communicate with God.
I always tend to not trust people so easily, I believe only half of the things people say me, so you are saying the bible was writen centuries ago, but by whom? With what purposes? So that means that if I write a book today, in a millenium that same crappy book will become holy??

And the oral tradition you say sorry but is senceless and meaningless....did you ever played 'telefono chocho'?? (sorry but I don't know how's called in english) tell me, how many times the original message can be around before suffering serious alterations?? Or another question, does the original message gets intact to the one who started the round?? Think about that....

[Leon of Silvren]

Why are you getting offensive Leon? I am empty in the inside? Right, that means you are FULL OF IT THEN? :dead:
I'm not getting offensive, it is you who interpreted my post as offensive. Anyway if you felt offended it wasn't my intention.

And I never said I was full in the inside, is just that you seem so stick to the material things, only aware of this life, don't you think there's something beyond this life? Don't you think spiritual has some importance? I think you're not aware of what spiritual things mean....

[Ese_Guy]

I always tend to not trust people so easily, I believe only half of the things people say me, so you are saying the bible was writen centuries ago, but by whom? With what purposes? So that means that if I write a book today, in a millenium that same crappy book will become holy??

And the oral tradition you say sorry but is senceless and meaningless....did you ever played 'telefono chocho'?? (sorry but I don't know how's called in english) tell me, how many times the original message can be around before suffering serious alterations?? Or another question, does the original message gets intact to the one who started the round?? Think about that....
Did you even read my post which talks about who wrote it and when? The new testament was compiled in order to spread the "Good News" about Jesus and Salvation.
You're right to remain skeptical about what I say. You don't have to take my word for it, but I encourage you to look it up for yourself.

As far as the game you're talking about is concerned, I've heard of it and have "played" when I was a kid - you get a totally different phrase than the one you started with. You need to understand that for centuries this is how information was handed down from generation to generation. It wasn't a game where information was mentioned briefly and only once. People dedicated themselves to study and understand the message that was being conveyed.

[MarieL]

Mariel, I`m sure you did`t read or even hear any thing about the Quran God Book.
this book have changed lifes and minds of many peopls around the world in every time.. the last known ppl was Will Smith and Claudia Shefer, simply cause they just have read it and they were searching the truth they were looking for, them and many ppl arond the world that have had many other religions, I think you should find this book although the government in all Europe and USA prevent this book to enter thier countries, cause they know how dangerous to let ppl know the truth.
there are many things that you don`t know or understand in this life, this book don`t tell you that there is a God and you MUST obay, no.. this book tells you why and how there is a God. this book have saved many ppl from thier dirty souls and minds.
the problem is some ppl have misunderstand some meanings included in this book, and they are some ones like Benladen who says that he is a Muslim, but in fact he isn`t.. he have just used some meanings and sentenced in this book to make a power to destroy anything he wants., this man shall be punshed from God.
Mariel, If you are looking for the truth, why you are alive now, why you will die in a time that you don`t know, why even you have been born.. If you realy care for your life and destiny.. all I want you to do is to search for this book, (I`m sure they have translate it into your languge but the problem is it`s so diffecult to find in your countries in Europe or America) and If you want to live it like that.. Lazy, don`t care.. just live your life as you want. it`s your life.. but for how much years? forever!?, I think you should ask yourself this question.
I hope you can understand what I mean and good luck.
The Quran is not at all difficult to find here, you can find it in every library and book store. There are also several translation available in the internet with all kinds of explanations so I can read it whenever I want. I find it rather strange that you'd think that I don't know anything about it. We can practise any religion we like in Finland and we are taught the basics of all the biggest religions in school.
I read the Quran a bit online earlier and all I saw was bashing the nonbelievers. That is basically brainwashing and doesn't make me want to read any more of it.
I also visited http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p1_02.php#1a and to me all those verses are really vague and can't really be called evidence of anything.
And no I'm not looking for truth nor wondering why I'm here. It's so weird why people have to have a reason for everything. They are always looking for the meaning of life and things like that. Well to me there is really no meaning, we are here by chance and we should just make the most of with while respecting others. I don't believe there is anything after death so I don't bother thinking about dying. To me there is nothing after I'm dead so there's no reason to fear either. But if there really is something like a soul in us then it'll most likely move on to another being.

[MarieL]

And djani, you said you were gonna give me your phone number? What happen girl? :D
Maybe she finally saw it for what it is, a bad idea!

[poutismalakas]

I as a Greek Orthodox Christian I celebrate CHRISTmas

[devious]

The Quran is not at all difficult to find here, you can find it in every library and book store. There are also several translation available in the internet with all kinds of explanations so I can read it whenever I want. I find it rather strange that you'd think that I don't know anything about it. We can practise any religion we like in Finland and we are taught the basics of all the biggest religions in school.
I read the Quran a bit online earlier and all I saw was bashing the nonbelievers. That is basically brainwashing and doesn't make me want to read any more of it.
I also visited http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p1_02.php#1a and to me all those verses are really vague and can't really be called evidence of anything.
And no I'm not looking for truth nor wondering why I'm here. It's so weird why people have to have a reason for everything. They are always looking for the meaning of life and things like that. Well to me there is really no meaning, we are here by chance and we should just make the most of with while respecting others. I don't believe there is anything after death so I don't bother thinking about dying. To me there is nothing after I'm dead so there's no reason to fear either. But if there really is something like a soul in us then it'll most likely move on to another being.
I tried my best.. good luck with your thoughts, I hope it will help you in life and death (I mean while you can feel).
just one thing I want you to but in mind, there are some things that are true whether you belive it or not. you didn`t choose to be a girl, right?

[ItalianBoy]

Leon, one way or the other you are being rude. You are talking about me when you dont even know me so pls stick to the thread and not me. You can not judge me since you do not know me. No, I do not think there is anythign beyond us and I do know what I am talking about. Period.

[MarieL]

I tried my best.. good luck with your thoughts, I hope it will help you in life and death (I mean while you can feel).
just one thing I want you to but in mind, there are some things that are true whether you belive it or not. you didn`t choose to be a girl, right?
I don't exactly see where you're getting at. I'm a girl coz I got an X chromosome from my dad, not Y.

[Ese_Guy]

I think he means choice not reason.
Science has discovered which chromosone combination produces a male and which produces a female. Science is good and necessary, not doubt about it.

However, I cannot believe that there was nothing but gasses and those gasses exploded and created earth. Conditions have to be right for everything to happen, that's a given.

I choose to believe a "Creator" designed everything and for a reason.
I am no scientist, far from it, so maybe my simple little mind remains in awe of all the miracles I see all around me, i.e. witnessing the birth of my chidren - how they were conceived and developed in the womb. How a simple seed can develop roots and grow into a majestic tree. How water is suspended in the air and provide for the earth.

Science did none of that.

[djani]

And djani, you said you were gonna give me your phone number? What happen girl? :D

haha , when did I say that when I was drunk(lol). I lost my phone # can I have yours? ;)

[FORZA_PIRLO]

SFN turned into a dating service

[devious]

Ese_Guy,thanks for explaining my point.
I was about to explain it with another question.. Do you choose when and where to die?.. so I think the point is so clear now. If you arn`t a beliver think about those things, just set back and think, If you are so smart, you`ll find that there is a powe that control everything, and I mean every thing.. the choices and the reasons too.. I doubt you can understand that though :( .


worth to say.. X chromosome from my dad you would be a girl, Y you would be a boy... that have been written in the Quran (the 1500 years old book) the God`s book (it have been written in a simple way that the old ppl can understand (you still find the Quran a vague and can't really be called evidence of anything.
If you realy have read it carefully (all of it not some of it! you can`t judge a book when you read some of it, if you do read only some, you can`t say anything about it.. it`s not a love story or an action serious!! It`s a Religion book, and not only for religion, that contains as I`ve mentioned things that we have just dicovered two or three years ago, and I think that I mentioned that all scientests around the world (Christians, Jews, and from different religions) have said about it it is a Mirical, so how you with your little amonut of knowlege (comparing to those scientests) would judge on the Quran?

[ItalianBoy]

djani, look hon, just get a messenger and we will take it form there.

[devious]

lool!

[MarieL]

Ese_Guy,thanks for explaining my point.
I was about to explain it with another question.. Do you choose when and where to die?.. so I think the point is so clear now. If you arn`t a beliver think about those things, just set back and think, If you are so smart, you`ll find that there is a powe that control everything, and I mean every thing.. the choices and the reasons too.. I doubt you can understand that though :( .
Well I don't understand because to me there doesn't have to be any higher power to control things. Being a boy or a girl or dying tomorrow or 10 years from now isn't a choise to me. We just have 50/50 chance to be either a boy or a girl and we have to die sometime. Both up to chance IMO. And believe me I've think about this a lot!
worth to say.. X chromosome from my dad you would be a girl, Y you would be a boy... that have been written in the Quran (the 1500 years old book) the God`s book (it have been written in a simple way that the old ppl can understand (you still find the Quran a vague and can't really be called evidence of anything.
If you realy have read it carefully (all of it not some of it! you can`t judge a book when you read some of it, if you do read only some, you can`t say anything about it.. it`s not a love story or an action serious!! It`s a Religion book, and not only for religion, that contains as I`ve mentioned things that we have just dicovered two or three years ago, and I think that I mentioned that all scientests around the world (Christians, Jews, and from different religions) have said about it it is a Mirical, so how you with your little amonut of knowlege (comparing to those scientests) would judge on the Quran?
Go ahead and find me the part where it says the chromosome thing because I'm not going to read Allah praising for hundreds of pages in order to find it.
Just tell me which part of the book it's in and I'll read it.

[devious]

I find to you?? do you mean I`m a lier!!?
and I know you will still complain after you see it.. I realy don`t have too. sorry.. and also you said that you don`t care and you arn`t searching for truth! so that what makes me don`t have to.

[Hat_Trick_Playa]

U Search 4 It!!

[Leon of Silvren]

Ese, sorry if I offend you but let me tell you catholic religion is one of the more evil religions, because of it many people has died, it has many secrets, many weak points, they hide too many things, I don't know, I'm unable to trust on them.

And the oral tradition that you talk about is one of the worst things I've ever heard, many things could've been lost or changed throught the years and translations, and the bibble is nothing but stories that you can interpret them as you want! Sorry but catholisism is not for me.

[Leon of Silvren]

Devious, we don't chose lots of things, right now a plane can land on my head and certainly I didn't plan that, but things are a result of many situations and actions, I don't believe someone is controlling all that, but I don't believe in luck either, in random things, I believe that if something happened is because some other things happened before it and made it happen that way, I don't know if you get my point.

That's why I always think so much before doing something, because I know that my actions can make happen lots of things, if it's good or bad, it depends. I believe in that we control our own destiny, but that we are not smart enough to control it the way we want.

[MarieL]

I find to you?? do you mean I`m a lier!!?
and I know you will still complain after you see it.. I realy don`t have too. sorry.. and also you said that you don`t care and you arn`t searching for truth! so that what makes me don`t have to.
No, I'm not calling you a liar. It's just that people with different religions have said the same as you, that everything is said in their holy book and I just have a hard time believing it's stated all that clearly in them. Do you believe everything people you don't even know tell you? I just know we interpret the same verses in a different way, that's why I'd have to see for myself. But you're right you don't have to find it if you don't want to. I'll live. Maybe I'll read it some day, when I have time.

[devious]

I understand you Leon. in Islam, in book of God, it says that every person have a book that have been written in it every single thing that will happen to him in his life and how will he die and what will be his colour, a boy or girl, have 10 fingers or 13 or no, will be rich or poor... everything.
so I guess you wonder now ho wcan I belive in such thing, right?
let`s see.. If you wouldn`t be able to choose yuor colour, or your sex or being Rich or poor (you can work hard but you `ll still poor, also you can not work and you may get bloody rich, so it`s not a choice either). I want you to open your mind now.. God have gave us free will.. so you`re wondering how God have gave us free will and in the same time he knows what everything will happens in my life untill I die?
It`s so simple.. you have wake up today and you are planning to sign in sfn and then you will go visit a freind and then go back home. so you sined in sfn and in your way to your freind you mad an accident, so you choosed and planned all of this, but you didn`t choose to make an accident. all of tis have been already written in your book befroe you have been born.
I know it`s to hard to understand what I exactly mean, but If you for just one minute Imagine that you belive in a bigger force that created every thing, every reason and every living thing, just imagine how will be the power of this huge force?
can you creat another Adam and Eve? If you can, can you make them get healthy babies that will grow up and have thier own babies too? such a power our small minds (that he created to us) can`t understand or even Imagine... you can see our small minds reflected on our freakin movies when trying to make a God in stuped movie like Hercules!! just I watch this shit and cant stop laughing on the ideas of freakin stuped authers that wrote those stuped movies!
you cant imagine that you are a God or to think like a God, how could you even think that God is like a normal person but the only diferece is he have super powers like superman!! this is just stuped! don`t you think??
God is just a 3 charachters word G O D, but it means so so much.. it means the exestense itself, I cnat stand when you say you cnat belive in God! but our God have told Us in Quran that we must be petiance with some unbelivers like you, and If we Muslims have the power to make you belive in Islam we must not use it in such thing, cause God have told us that he gave us free will and we must respect others opinions cause this is the free will itself. and God have told us that if he wants some unbelivers like you to be belivers he can do it simply without anyones help or anything.. he will just put you in the right way, he will lighten your road to the truth as he did with many ppl around the world with unbelivers or with another religions (religios like Leon was talking about).
belive me it`s a very big deal. you mustn`t ignore it. I hope God will light your way.

[devious]

No, I'm not calling you a liar. It's just that people with different religions have said the same as you, that everything is said in their holy book and I just have a hard time believing it's stated all that clearly in them. Do you believe everything people you don't even know tell you? I just know we interpret the same verses in a different way, that's why I'd have to see for myself. But you're right you don't have to find it if you don't want to. I'll live. Maybe I'll read it some day, when I have time.
I hope you will Mariel, I relay hope so :angel:

[GiorgioII]

Leon, Catholicism is an evil religion? Yes, many people have died because of it, but surely that doesn't make it an evil religion. Back in the 1500's/1600's Catholic rulers would execute Protestant people. But then when protestantism came into the forefront their kings or queens were just as harsh and bloody. As for nowadays, the problem in Ireland is bad, but we must remember that the IRA are a small minority and that it isn't the religions fault that it attracts a few extremists. But then again, Islam also attracts extremists, but for the sake of being politically correct that would never be called an evil religion.

No religion can be called evil as they were all established with the purpose of serving their God/Gods. God is omnipotent and all loving and therefore these religions can't possibly be called evil just because there have been wars over religious frictions.

And yes I do celebreate Xmas so I won't be online from the 23rd until the new year.

[devious]

I`ll miss you baby :D
happy new year ;)

[Ese_Guy]

Ese, sorry if I offend you but let me tell you catholic religion is one of the more evil religions, because of it many people has died, it has many secrets, many weak points, they hide too many things, I don't know, I'm unable to trust on them.

And the oral tradition that you talk about is one of the worst things I've ever heard, many things could've been lost or changed throught the years and translations, and the bibble is nothing but stories that you can interpret them as you want! Sorry but catholisism is not for me.

Don't worry about offending me. It's pretty natural for people to attack Christianity.

The Catholic Church has had a pretty bad past over the years. For me though, it is carnal man that has done this, not God. I have a faith and belief in God so deep that mere men cannot ruin it for me; I understand enough of human nature and some of the theology involved with Christianity.

As far as the Bible is concerened, it should not be left up to the individual for interpretation. Because of this, "Christian" churches are springing up all over the world; each one having it's own principle philosophy.
I believe Jesus handed the Keys of the Church to Peter. Upon Peter (Rock) the Catholic Church was founded. Peter is the first "Pope".
(Mathew 16)
18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

[Leon of Silvren]

G, back in the history, people was killed for not following Catholic religion, tell me that's not evil, killing people in name of a religion.....I know that at first it was created for the sole purpose of serving their god, but if something was good at first but in the road it had become dirty, you can't really say that something is clean. See my point? Starting from the point that Jesus (and also starting from the point that he existed) built the catholic church with good purposes, but from then on, catholic history is full of lies, crimes, perscutions, murders, genocides, wars, etc. Now, knowing all that can you still tell me is not an evil religion??

And Ese, personally, knowing the bad things about catholic religion I can't follow it anymore, it'll be like acepting all bad things that has happened all over the years, for example there are many priests accused of sexual harassments, here in my country there is a priest in prison, he was at the head of a radio station, he's very famous here and followed by many because of the radio, he's accused of sexual harassment, corruption (illegal enrichment) and also, and most shocking, he's accused of being the intellectual author of a murder of a famous periodist who unwrapped all the shit he did. Seriously, I won't follow a religion that has so many flaws, I don't care if these flaws are carnal, I just care they are there, and they're linked with the catholic religion, that's why I don't follow it anymore.

But don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a supreme being up there, but I don't have an image of him, and I'm not interested in coming up with one, that's something that's beyond my thinking, that's why I don't put too much effort in thinking about a 'god', I just know that he or she or it created us and everything you see, and what we don't see, but I don't believe that that god controls anything that happens in this world, but I do know what's right and what's wrong, I don't know why I know that, but I know that I must always do the right thing, I want to believe that that 'god' had put that knowledge in my head. That's all, that why I don't believe in fate or destiny or in miracles.

[djani]

ok, how bout if we said Merry Christmas in each of our languages?
Sretan Bozic!

[devious]

But don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a supreme being up there, but I don't have an image of him, and I'm not interested in coming up with one, that's something that's beyond my thinking, that's why I don't put too much effort in thinking about a 'god', I just know that he or she or it created us and everything you see, and what we don't see, but I don't believe that that god controls anything that happens in this world, but I do know what's right and what's wrong, I don't know why I know that, but I know that I must always do the right thing, I want to believe that that 'god' had put that knowledge in my head. That's all, that why I don't believe in fate or destiny or in miracles.
ok.. I got it when you said: (he or she) I mean you don`t understand a meaning of a God?
so.. don`t bother think about it at all.

[devious]

ok, how bout if we said Merry Christmas in each of our languages?
Sretan Bozic!
كل عام و انتم بخير :D

iT SPELLS LIKE THIS: (kol am we antom bekhayer) I guess it`s even hard to spell for you :ronaldo:

[Ese_Guy]

I see what you're saying Leon and there is probably no way I'll be able to convince you over the internet. I'm not trying to "convert" you either. All I'm doing is relaying the little I know. It is ultimately up to you whether you choose to believe or not.

I've seen and heard of many priests that have fallen. Unfortunately, they have caused others to fall away from the Church as well. While I cannot judge them, most of these men deserve damnation. Suffice it to say though, I have enough maturity in my faith that a few rotten apples cannot shake me.

[Ese_Guy]

ok, how bout if we said Merry Christmas in each of our languages?
Sretan Bozic!

Feliz Navidad!!
and
Merry Christmas!!

[porkster104]

Yeah, I do celebrate Christmas.... Hehe! Merry Christmas to y'all here at SFN!!! :D

[devious]

thnks porkster.. Mery Christmas for you too ;)

[Leon of Silvren]

I see what you're saying Leon and there is probably no way I'll be able to convince you over the internet. I'm not trying to "convert" you either. All I'm doing is relaying the little I know. It is ultimately up to you whether you choose to believe or not.

I've seen and heard of many priests that have fallen. Unfortunately, they have caused others to fall away from the Church as well. While I cannot judge them, most of these men deserve damnation. Suffice it to say though, I have enough maturity in my faith that a few rotten apples cannot shake me.
I see what you're saying too, and thanks for not trying to convert me, it would be as annoying as hell. And good for you that you have such strong faith, but I'm the kind of person who trust nobody.

Anyway peace out man, we are cool??

[GiorgioII]

Leon, of course I agree that killing in the name of catholicism is evil. Bloody Mary over here in England was the most famous catholic who killed numerous protestants. However, like I said in my previous posts, the protestants did exactly the same to the catholics, brutally executing them. Surely it was the backwardness of the time rather than the actual religion that was evil, if you want to use that word, although I would prefer to describe the people of that time as ill-informed rather than pure evil.

[theman]

I agree Leon,religion is bullshit.The diffference between me and you is you believe in that dude "god",and I don't.

Sometimes I had to go to church(my grandma was Nigerian,and like 97%of the Nigerian population she was Christain),so when she came over to england our whole family would go to church,coz she wanted to.
We all hated it,a.coz none of us believed in it,
and b.it's just boring shit anyway.
I'm not saying I hate religious people ,it's just I think some of them need to think more about what religion has done to the world.
Look at palestine and israel,all coz of two different countries disagreeing over a religion and people dying every day.
I know it's more complicated than that,but it's still a prime example.

[Leon of Silvren]

I think I'm not getting your point, if a social group kills someone, then is evil, I'm unable to find the catholic religion an excuse for killing those people, neither for not calling them evil.

[porkster104]

thnks porkster.. Mery Christmas for you too ;)

Thanks... Appreciate it, devious! :)

[Ese_Guy]

I see what you're saying too, and thanks for not trying to convert me, it would be as annoying as hell. And good for you that you have such strong faith, but I'm the kind of person who trust nobody.

Anyway peace out man, we are cool??

Don't worry about me, we're cool!

[devious]

yeah cool in the deepfreezer :D

[GiorgioII]

I think I'm not getting your point, if a social group kills someone, then is evil, I'm unable to find the catholic religion an excuse for killing those people, neither for not calling them evil.

No, a social group is not evil for killing someone as the group is not a living thing so the collective group killed the person. It is the members of the group who are evil for killing their person. If all of the rules of the social group or religion are thou shall kill all you can and murder and adultery is right then of course the religion is evil, but catholicism isn't like that. Some catholics killed many people, but catholicism didn't kill anyone. Therefore the religion is like all other religions, a worship of God or Allah, it is just a few extreme members that are evil.

[Leon of Silvren]

But what if the leader of the social group is the evil one?? And murdering people is just the tip of the iceberg mate, we could spend many hours talking about the controversies of the catholic religion.......

[devious]

that`s why forums survives :D

[Ese_Guy]

Ok now, let's not get carried away

[devious]

let`s get load.. lets get loaaaaad!