Palastine vs Isreal : Wich side are you on??

[Lallou]

Palastine vs Isreal : Wich side are you on??

Note:

Please mension why.

[Mate]

Ten years ago I was clearly on the Israeli side, treating the Arabs and the Muslims as the terorists.

I changed my mind when I visited an Islamic state for the first time in 1996. Instead of terorists and hijackers I met friendly people, I drank many free cups of tea, got too many invitations to peoples' homes, enjoyed discussing women and football instead of politics, listening Feyrouz and Umm Kalthum ... Later I visited the Islamic world for two more times, and everywhere, including in Iran, Syria or Yemen, I had a great time (apart from some stomach problems).

Clearly, I changed my view of the Arabs and of the Islamic world, as well as of the Palestinian conflict.

I can't exactlly say that I'm on the Arab side (and against the Israelis) now. Clearly, Arafat is acting wrong in many ways and it is hard to support the suicide bombings. But the fact is that there is no just solution of the problem without independent Palestine with the borders more-less resembling those from 1967. And I feel that in general the Israelis are doing more to prevent this from happen – just think of Sharon's visit of El Beyt. That's why my simpathies are with the weaker side.

[ItalianBoy]

Israel.
No need to say more, they are clearly the ones with some brains.

[soccer fanatic]

More important question is how too solve it?
Can it even be solved?

[Severus]

i doubt it. well not until palestine is rightfully given an official state anyway.

as for choosing sides, i think it's irrelevant cos both are terrorists. and both are led by deceitful war criminals. it's like choosing between the mobster and the crooked politician. what's the point ?

[Super Croat]

I'm on the side of peace. The poor and innocent who are the real casualties of this conflict. Palestinians deserve their own State and so do Israeli’s. Who gets what should be decided through political discussion and agreements need to be stood by - by both peoples. Security for both people and an honest chance for both people to live 'normal' lives without the threat of 'annihilation' or 'extinction' looming over their heads ever day of their existence.

[Mendieta]

I'd say that I disagree with both sides to an extent. I can't support Palestine fully cause of the suicide bombings and I can't support Israel either because they are also killing innocent people. Both sides need to sit down and try to resolve it and stop killing each other.

[Severus]

well i personally don't think the israelis want peace. if they did then they certainly would not have voted in sharon again. they are certainly not sending a positive signal to the rest of the world by voting in this war monster IMO.

nor are they sending the right message to the palestinians either. it looks like it still has to get much worse before it improves i reckon:(

[Lallou]

I just wanna ask something, if your land was invaded what will you do?? Just sit there while they kill you and your famalies and friends??

Tell me please what is fair?? When one side fights with guns and developed weapons & the other fight by throwing rocks they find spread out across the streets. Clearly that isn't fair, and no wonder why Isreal is winning.

It's just the suicide bombings that aren't making this easy & they are giving poor Plasetinians a bad look. Other than the suicide bombers, I guess I am on Paletines side. The suicide bombings are the worst and if they can only stop maybe then can there be some agreaments from both side (yea right..)

It's in my knowlage that in Islam, suicide is forbidden, and it's the worst way to go. Clearly suicide bombings are horrible and need to stop!

The best solution is for there to be to diffrent countries: Isreal & palestine. Though when you think about it what's gonna stop Isreal from still doing what they already are. & what's gonna stop Palestinians from still using their suicide bombings...??

What is the solution...........? If there is one..........:(

[Tottiana]

i would say palestine.reasons

a) the land is their own.
b) terrorist? who's start it first?, after the UN declared the state of Israel in 1948, the israelite started to drive out the palestinian by harsh way, including massacre. just imagine you are the citizen of a country, and a community force the citizen to go away from ur land.. wut will u do? will u try to keep silence without doing anything to protect yourself?
c) israel is supported by the big powers- us and britain..no need me to say more.. the history explains it all..


if u got any dissatisfaction, ask me, k?

[LeeXun]

Hey~
I really hate the problem!
Why can't they deal with the problem in another way?
I'm a Chinese,I stand in the middle~
I just hope they can stop fighting,it's really no use,and meaningless!!!

[gnlvagosov]

Originally posted by ItalianBoy
Israel.
No need to say more, they are clearly the ones with some brains.

you are clearly the one without a brain.:rolleyes:

[brazil5x]

Palestine:

Israel : Helicopter Gunships,F-16's, and Tanks against bunch of kids with sticks and rocks,Bravo

Palestine:
Suicide bombing is the only weapon that they have and works for them.eventhough its not the right thing to do but what Israel is doing to them aint right either.

Palestinans should have thier own land,Sharon is the biggest terrorist.He likes blood,most Israeli's want peace and are good people.

[LeeXun]

I think this problem won't be solved until one side die!

[funky6]

Originally posted by ItalianBoy

Israel.
No need to say more, they are clearly the ones with some brains.


They also have a state.Great brains they got,yeah.This issue is really sensitive,plz don't play with a nation's misery and pain.These Suicide Commandos know or feel things we ppl cannot understand,they're in other dimensions so plz keep it to football or subjects you can argue about without feeling guilty or unrelated to.

This fight is biblical,there's nothing to do i think.

[soccer fanatic]

Originally posted by funky6
This issue is really sensitive,plz don't play with a nation's misery and pain.These Suicide Commandos know or feel things we ppl cannot understand.


Totally agreed.


This fight is biblical,there's nothing to do i think.

This makes it so difficult for me too understand, I don`t know the influence a religious believe can have, I know it is big ofcourse because of all what has happened lately in the world, but I haven`t experienced it myself as I am a totally unreligious person.

See, for me it is like: Why can`t they just share it?
I know it will not happen, but I can`t fully understand, because religions or not, in the end everybody wants too live in peace, harmony and freedom right?

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Severus
well i personally don't think the israelis want peace. if they did then they certainly would not have voted in sharon again. they are certainly not sending a positive signal to the rest of the world by voting in this war monster IMO.


I highly doubt they want war. I think they voted for him because he's taking a stance against the terrorists. That coupled with the fact that the last time they negotiated a peace, it was broken.

I personally am on one side in this conflict, and that's the side of peace. Both sides need to take great steps to achieve that aim. It's going to have to be one side who decides to stop fighting, but that's a tough step to take. I personally am disappointed in both sides.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Tottiana

c) israel is supported by the big powers- us and britain..no need me to say more.. the history explains it all..


if u got any dissatisfaction, ask me, k?

No need to ask. Britain is an ally of the US. HOWEVER, it does not support Israel the way the US does, if at all. In fact, Tony Blair has repeatedly said that the US needs to focus on other issues around the world other than Iraq.

[rebeli]

They are innocent people on both sides whatever most people might think of the palestinians. I would support the palestinians in their cause for independence but not in their methods. The israeli's are not free of blame either. To choose a side would be stupid because it is more complicated than that. All i can say is that palestinians should be given their independent state.

[funky6]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA

I personally am disappointed in both sides.

Excactly what i feel.Especially by Arafat.He doesn't have any power in his ppl after all,opposite to what we all used to believe.

The point is that if a side has to be calmer,more negotiative etc it's Israel and i don't think that voting guys like Sharon,and insisting on massive bombing is the right step.If they don't step back,there's no way Palestinian's will stop suicide attacks.I believe Israelian ppl are really exhausted but their government doesn't seem to care.

After the September 11th incidents,i understand American ppl's repulsion in these attacks but this is a different issue and has nothing to do with the US's goverments support of Israel where the reasons are mostly political and economical.

The thread title is bad,no need to choose sides in these matters IMO.

[Lallou]

Well, in every situation, there is more than one side to choose from. maybe I should've made the thread title clearer, but I am on one side, and that is peace. And IMO I believe that the Isreali's are the ones proventing peace from happening. For peace to happen, I believe that one side MUST back off, but the question is who will?? Both sides are to afraide to do so.

Again.. People think they could do with out peace..little do they know.

The land is owned by the Palestinians, It's for their use and their use only..

[funky6]

Originally posted by Lallou
Well, in every situation, there is more than one side to choose from. maybe I should've made the thread title clearer, but I am on one side, and that is peace.

Case closed:D

[Severus]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
I highly doubt they want war. I think they voted for him because he's taking a stance against the terrorists. That coupled with the fact that the last time they negotiated a peace, it was broken.

good points but it seems like the israelis are taking a 2 wrongs make a right approach to this which isn't gonna stimulate peace.

and this is even more painfully disappointing because israel are the only alleged "democracy" in the region. that's pathetic IMO.

[HULK HOGAN]

I agree with most of you that Sharon isn't going to bring peace. But is Arafat and Isreal has gone through numerous Prime minister some hard line and some doves yet nothing seems to get done with arafat at the helm. Personally if i was in israel i would vote for Sharon i don't know how anybody could take suicide bombing daily and then turn around and try to reason with the PLO. The PLO's leadership (arafat has to go). The man has lost control of everything in his country. For god's sake arafat can't even control his own party. Does anyone realize that the Al-axa brigade(pardon the spelling) a terrorist organization is apart of Arafat's right wing element of his own party. MAn thats like saying the republicans have a far right terrorist organization in their own party. If arafat can't control his own party what chance does he have with a country.

[ItalianBoy]

Originally posted by gnlvagosov
you are clearly the one without a brain.:rolleyes:

I know I am asking a lot, but you could use your tiny one and explain why you say this stupid thing...again.
:rolleyes:

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Severus
good points but it seems like the israelis are taking a 2 wrongs make a right approach to this which isn't gonna stimulate peace.

and this is even more painfully disappointing because israel are the only alleged "democracy" in the region. that's pathetic IMO.

Yeah, but if Toronto was getting suicide bombed every week, I'm sure the majority of Canadians would vote similarly to how the Israelis have. They're unwilling to trust at the moment, and it's it much easier to be critical of that where we're standing.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by HULK HOGAN
I agree with most of you that Sharon isn't going to bring peace. But is Arafat and Isreal has gone through numerous Prime minister some hard line and some doves yet nothing seems to get done with arafat at the helm.

Good point. Arafat has been a constant much longer.

[gnlvagosov]

Originally posted by ItalianBoy
I know I am asking a lot, but you could use your tiny one and explain why you say this stupid thing...again.
:rolleyes:

Because you don't know shit, you just act as a smart-ass:rolleyes:

[Zek]

I was on Israeli side berfore i've met a very good friend, his father was close to arafat some time ago.
we discussed a lot and what i understood is that: if your family is killed by israeli soldiers, if there's no place to work, if you have the lowest amount of potable water per person 4.4 liters per day, if you have no passport and you can't go anywhere - do you really live then? do you feel like a living person? do you believe in love, peace, freedom, democracy....

no, so what's left is your life, which is of no use if you don't have anything except your life and pain, so much that we can't really feel it... then you go and kill yourself taking off some israelis with you....... that's terrible....

if israelis have more brains they would have preferred a better life...without being scared of being killed....

got to go will come back later....
take care!

[OAnimal]

It is obvious that the Palestines cannot live in Israel anymore and they should get their own state. Like Slovenia or Croatia did 11 years ago...

[Lallou]

Originally posted by OAnimal
It is obvious that the Palestines cannot live in Israel anymore and they should get their own state. Like Slovenia or Croatia did 11 years ago...

This isn't Slovinia nor Croatia, this is Palestine fighting for their land, for THEIR land.

Seriously, how would you feel if you owned something, and i just came and took it from you and claimed that it was mine?? I doubt you would feel understanding and would settle with out it
:rolleyes:

[ItalianBoy]

Originally posted by gnlvagosov
Because you don't know shit, you just act as a smart-ass:rolleyes:


Well well if it istn the guy that wants to get respected?
By saying you dont know shit and posting sev style you dont accomplish much except making me right once more.

[haythamx]

As an Lebanese Arab myself, I believe that only a man of peace must be at the head of the Israeli cabinet in order to initiate negotiations for both sides. However, there are several dilemmas, heck, even TRI-lemmas that both sides have to deal with. 1st off, Israel is a state that exists, whether us Arabs like it or not they are here to stay- are you listening Hezballah, Hamas, Fatah, Syria, Iraq and Iran? On the other hand, the Palestinians have been thriving on the lands of what are present-day Israel for GENERATIONS, as opposed to Israelis who descend from Belarussians, Ukrainians, Poles, the Baltic, and what have you. Are you listening Mr. Sharon, Bibi, Gissin, and the rest of the Likud party? Fine. Now, with Sharon's policies, this conflict is ongoing and will never end. Arafat is a symbolic leader to the Palestinians and has been through A HELL OF A LOT to get this far...Oslo I & II...which both FAILED! I don't blame him for the two agreements' failures, rather, American and Israeli foreign policies, as well as the so-called 'Arab-league'. No one has put ANY effort into helping the Palestinian case since their suicide bombers are dubbed as 'terrorists'. OK, so it's WRONG to kill blow yourself up, but considering their options? What should they do, overthrow Arafat? It ain't gonna happen. And Arafat condemns both Fatah and Hamas for supporting such acts. True he did fund them, but that was in the PAST (Intifadah I).

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that with NEGOTIATIONS there can only be two satisfied parties, as seen in Camp David I with the 'holy trinity' of Carter-Begin-Sadat. The UN-holy trinity was in Camp David II with Clinton-Barak-Arafat. Barak wanted security. Arafat was offered the WHOLE of the west bank + Gaza and the Jerusalem quarter that included the Arab side...in return for SECURITY. However, there was much more to this than meets the eye. Barak offered more than land- but a PUPPET state were to be imposed so as to guarentee Israeli security. Some say Arafat's rejection of this proposal was foolish since Barak was the 1st and probably the LAST person to offer a square meter of Jerusalem! But think about it, had Arafat accepted, his ppl would have suffered JUST THE SAME as they are now. Imagine- Israelis appointing Palestinian gov't members, Israeli police within the WB and Gaza, Israeli decision making superiority over Palestinian gov't officials. This violates a UN charter on a nation's full sovereignty.

To make matters worse, Amram Mitzna didn't even win the elections, as he proposed IMMEDIATE negotiations with Arafat. So long as Sharon is in power, we'll have to wait until Arafat passes away or something for a change in the Palestine-Israel conflict. Other than that, I don't see anything optimistic about the conflict.

[OAnimal]

Originally posted by Lallou
This isn't Slovinia nor Croatia, this is Palestine fighting for their land, for THEIR land.

Seriously, how would you feel if you owned something, and i just came and took it from you and claimed that it was mine?? I doubt you would feel understanding and would settle with out it
:rolleyes:
You obviously misunderstood me. I would like Palestine to become an independent state containing all the land that is rightfully theirs. The case of Slovenia and Croatia was that we had to pay more money to the Jugoslavian federal budget than other republics and when we decided to obtain independence, the federal army invaded our territories. More or less same sh!t as in Palestine case, don't you think so?

[Moon-Star]

both sides have made important mistakes......
the problem is still continuing and will go on.
i have a very,very low hope :(

[Atalla]

if we take all into persepective, as we always should, all sides should be looked at......... as an arab, i know where i stand......

the israelis murdered my cousin and neighbor in cold blood...
how did it happen?

my neighbor got into his car after he closed his store, (which is located in beit lahm, supposedly palestinian territory) as he was reversing out of the parking spot, an isralei soldier told him to stop.... he did.... and then was shot.. an israeli blockade, 200 meters behind opened fire on him while he sat in his car.. they quoted security reasons for killing this man because he was going in reverse in a car which they assumed was loaded with explosives. the car was searched, and nothing was found.. and an apoglogy was not issued to the mourning family, nor was compensation paid.. he was a father of three and left a widow with little money to take care of her children..
nothing happened to the soldiers, they were not court martialed or even questioned...

and this is supposed to be a civilized nation?

my cousin was shot at blank point when she visited Jerusalem and an israeli soldier assumed that she carried a gun under her dress. this was way after the first intifada had ended. she carried no gun, and was wearing jeans, (which did not appear in the soldier's testimony) and she was 13 at the time. again, nothing happened to the man, and my uncle who resides in palestine was powerless, despite much complaining and wailing to the Israeli government..

i ask you, and think of your nations when you reply... what would happen to a soldier who murders a resident of your nation and with no good reason?

what would happen in America, england, china, holland, brazil or any other civilized country in the world for that matter, if a soldier was to murder a man of different ethnic backgrounds for no good reason...? what would be all over the news? and how long would it take for him to be court martialed

Propaganda is the reason why you don't hear of this.... rest assured, we hear of them every day.....
did you know, that for example, when israeli's detain a man in prison, that they violate every prisoner's law set in accordance to the geneva prisoner's doctrines??
you should see the scars that are left on some of the men who have been imprisoned in Israeli prisons....

did you know, that every day, 14 or more Palestinians are murderd, and the media covers it up with talks of security and terrorism? but the truth is that these people are killed out of spite??

does your country's media show you the messages that some of the so called "suicide bombers" leave behind them after the kill themselves?
they are always single men or women who have lost both parents, and most relatives to Israeli gunmen, and have nothing left to loose in this life, and so strap on a bomb, and destroy themselves, trying to earn a small amount of revenge???

these are shattered people, who have lost family because of Israelis being trigger happy with their "toys"

where do you think that the Palestinian men obtain their guns???
do u actually think that with all of the Israeli governments measures of security, that these Ak's are smuggled in??
it is the Israeli soldiers who sell them to these men for cash.....
and the vicious cycle continues...

you guys can argue that the Isreali army has a right to murder innocent people for the reasons of security.. ok..

but you can never dispute the fact that it is the israeli's themselves who drive the palestinians to do the horrible acts that they do...

did you know that 97 % of the worldwide media is owned by Jews??
do you know now why you will never hear the full story?
and think, while the Israeli's continue to burden the world with tales of the holocaust, their ministers of security are ranting things like: "we will brun every Lebanese home, and bleed every Lebanese child dry if hizbollah attack our soldiers once more"
i know........ you didn't know that either...
that was a true quote...
one day, the palestinian populace will dissapear, and we will be left wondering, what happened to the world, why did they continue to ignore these dying people.. well, choose your side, but remember that one holocaust is now leading to another..


Italian boy, it is a very big notion that the isreali's have the bigger brains...... but go look it up anywhere, Palestinians have the highest PHD's per Capita...... in the world....
so much for them being dumb..........
?
you may know your soccer, but when you simply view things from a glass celing, you will only see what you want to see...

oh and i'm willing to bet that most of you had no idea that the Israeli mobster who is now PM, murdered over 1000 palestinans residing in lebanon when he invaded this country in 1982.....
and when he was set to undergo trial for his actions, the only witness that could have pinned the blame on him, a lebanese member of congress called Elie Houbaika, was murdered in a car bomb.. while going to testify..... guess who wanted him dead......

and you really must not blame Arafat for everything he has spent the better part of the last six months under isreali "security" surrounded by tanks and blockades, unable to use a telephone, so i think, yeah, it is very difficult for him to control his people's actions.......

[funky6]

Respect to your pain, but not everyone here have the same opinions.I know abt the messages of the suicide bombers and everything you've said.Jews might have power but this is a free world and noone can stop informations going all over the world from independant websites,journalists etc.

I'm also sure that Israelian ppl are innocent too and are exhausted of seeing their children as soldiers all the time.

It's a ***ked up situation which goes far away from politics down there and i don't know if it will ever stop,since noone with power seems to really do smthing for it.

Freedom to Palestine

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by haythamx
As an Lebanese Arab myself, I believe that only a man of peace must be at the head of the Israeli cabinet in order to initiate negotiations for both sides.

How so? We've had that situation before only for the Palestinians to go back on the treaties they signed.

Originally posted by haythamx

1st off, Israel is a state that exists, whether us Arabs like it or not they are here to stay- are you listening Hezballah, Hamas, Fatah, Syria, Iraq and Iran?

Good point. Arabs just need to get over it and deal with the situation. The Palestinians can, should and will have their own state. Israel is going nowhere though, so just deal with it. As for Iraq, Iran, Syria and any other Arab states who consider themselves Arab "brothers" to the Palestinians, you're not. Any intelligent person knows that those states are about as sincere as Saddam.

Originally posted by haythamx

Arafat is a symbolic leader to the Palestinians and has been through A HELL OF A LOT to get this far...Oslo I & II...which both FAILED! I don't blame him for the two agreements' failures, rather, American and Israeli foreign policies, as well as the so-called 'Arab-league'.

I blame Arafat more than anyone else. He's an untrustworthy fool. He didn't even know what he'd agreed to when he signed the Oslo accords. Then, instead of living up to his end of the bargain, he didn't. If the Palestinians had an ounce of common sense, they'd replace Arafat with someone more intelligent and more credible. Same goes for Israel and Sharon.

Originally posted by haythamx

No one has put ANY effort into helping the Palestinian case since their suicide bombers are dubbed as 'terrorists'. OK, so it's WRONG to kill blow yourself up, but considering their options? What should they do, overthrow Arafat? It ain't gonna happen. And Arafat condemns both Fatah and Hamas for supporting such acts. True he did fund them, but that was in the PAST (Intifadah I).

Yes, they should get rid of Arafat. Also, he DOES support Fatah and Hamas. He says he doesn't, but then Saddam says he doesn't have any chemical weapons. Even he didn't support Fatah and Hamas, he's not necessarily trying to get rid of them either.


Originally posted by haythamx

To make matters worse, Amram Mitzna didn't even win the elections, as he proposed IMMEDIATE negotiations with Arafat. So long as Sharon is in power, we'll have to wait until Arafat passes away or something for a change in the Palestine-Israel conflict. Other than that, I don't see anything optimistic about the conflict.

Get rid of em both, Sharon and Arafat. Arafat will be tougher to get rid of. Getting rid of Sharon would be easier and more effective though as the Israeli people seem to be more interested in peace.

[PopA]

i support palestine...... the truth is, as someone said earlier on this thread, they only have suicide bombing as their weapon.....
this is a big problem..... i doubt peace can ever be achieved

[Eyal Berkovic]

Originally posted by Lallou
This isn't Slovinia nor Croatia, this is Palestine fighting for their land, for THEIR land.

Seriously, how would you feel if you owned something, and i just came and took it from you and claimed that it was mine?? I doubt you would feel understanding and would settle with out it
:rolleyes: Israel was formed because there was no Jewish state. When the British withdrew from the Arabian areas, the Jews thought they would be lynched (which is probably true.) The plan was that the Arabs would settle elsewhere. This did not happen and the Palastinians were left homeless. The solution would be to live peacefully side by side. Unfortunately they are both that bigoted it would not happen!

[Eyal Berkovic]

Originally posted by haythamx
No one has put ANY effort into helping the Palestinian case since their suicide bombers are dubbed as 'terrorists'. OK, so it's WRONG to kill blow yourself up, but considering their options? What should they do This is where both parties are at fault. First Palestinian authorities do not condemn the fanatical preachers that tell gullible dimwits if they blow up women and children on busses they will sit beside Allah. Second Israel retaliates by blowing up places where these terrorists live, which is beside residential properties with women and children in them. Its a vicious circle and clearly while Sharon and Arafat are in charge nothing will happen.

[Severus]

the point of this whole situation though is rather simple when you think of it. the palestinians deserve their independance and sovereignty yet they don't have it.

[PopA]

the jews don't deserve that land..... simple and clear. Britain gave them what was palestine's land

funky, you mentioned that there's nothing stopping independent writers and journalists from spreading the news. Yes there is. They have to sell the stories to media chains, either newspapers or radio/tv stations, and if these are JEWISH owned, i doubt the stories would be published! Israel, in whatever way you look at it, has only been there for less than a century. The palestinians have been there forever. The jews are priviledged, they have the US and UK's support, and are supplied with weapons, suicide bombers is all palestine has.

zul, please remember, your country keeps many, many things away from you. And that dumbass running it just inspires more and more anti - american feelings in people around the world. i sure do hope you don't share his point of view

[Atalla]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
How so? We've had that situation before only for the Palestinians to go back on the treaties they signed.

that never happened..... Palestinians were never the ones to go back on the so called treaties..... you are totally misinformed.... may i remind you that Isreal has still not fufilled half of it's deal of the camp david accords?? and that Israel is still in violation of several UN laws/treaties, these acts are punishable by war, remember milosovic and saddam?



"Good point. Arabs just need to get over it and deal with the situation. The Palestinians can, should and will have their own state. Israel is going nowhere though, so just deal with it. As for Iraq, Iran, Syria and any other Arab states who consider themselves Arab "brothers" to the Palestinians, you're not. Any intelligent person knows that those states are about as sincere as Saddam."

propaganda by your government.... Iran is not an arab state, it is a muslim one.... Iraq is still being punished for an act that happened over a decade ago, WHICH it was encouraged to do by the U.S. it's pretty sad how the American government tends to overdo the whole terrorist Arabs thing.... i am an arab, and have resided in Arab states all my life, and not once was i a subject to terrorist behavior, aside from Israeli bombardment of Lebanon. it's pretty sad how the media in the U.S. continue to portray Arabs as living in the worst conditions.... when i watch CNN, and they profile an Arab Country, they always show you the slums...... i'd invite you to come here and look at this place, and then tell me that i live in a slum........


"I blame Arafat more than anyone else. He's an untrustworthy fool. He didn't even know what he'd agreed to when he signed the Oslo accords. Then, instead of living up to his end of the bargain, he didn't. If the Palestinians had an ounce of common sense, they'd replace Arafat with someone more intelligent and more credible. Same goes for Israel and Sharon."

Arafat never went back on the oslo accords.... your government is pinning the blame on a man whose hands are tied.... and that is stupid.... consider the fact that Arafat does not have the means to go back on the accords without weapons or a sincere threat to the Israeli government... he was provoked...... do some homework on an unbiased resource, i do dispise Arafat, but he is not a rattlesnake... sharon and the likud party members in Israel are.... consider this, a faction of lebanese men who had allegiance to Israel when Israel was still in Lebanon served the israeli governemnt for 20 years or so.... they constantly fought with Lebanese men for the sake of Israel. when Israel withdrew, their leader launched an infamous qoute in the Arab world: we defended Israel for 20 years, and they gave up on us in 24 hours....


"Yes, they should get rid of Arafat. Also, he DOES support Fatah and Hamas. He says he doesn't, but then Saddam says he doesn't have any chemical weapons. Even he didn't support Fatah and Hamas, he's not necessarily trying to get rid of them either."

this Saddam has chemichal weapons thing is another fabrication.... you see how blindly you believe in it, when the UN inspectors to date HAVE FOUND NOTHING IN IRAQ... where is Saddam gonna get these "weapons"? he has been under the heaviest of sanctions since the early 90's!!!! nothing bad food and medicine has gone in, or out of the country since the gulf war.. it is so stupid that they spoon feed you this information which is not backed up by anything whatsoever but assumptions...


Get rid of em both, Sharon and Arafat. Arafat will be tougher to get rid of. Getting rid of Sharon would be easier and more effective though as the Israeli people seem to be more interested in peace.

the Israeli government is not interested in peace..... under sharon, every pro peace member of cabinet has resigned. he is a sadistic piece of sh*t who has taken pride in murdering thousands upon thousands of women and children.... "ethnic cleansing" i like to call it...

i am not upset at you Azul, i am very upset at your media, which continues to spoon feed you crap... you called the Sep. 11 attacks a "war on freedom" it is stupid that you think that people hate Americans for their freedom... Europe has just as much freedom, and i do not see any terrorist attacks on "big ben" or the leaning tower of pisa...... your government has taken half the money from your pocket, and given it, along with weapons, to Israel, and these guns have contributed in killing thousands of innocent Arabs... and yet you have the Gaul to mourn 12 or so dead Israelis when on the same day, about 14 palestinians die without you knowing of it.

by the way, torture is widely used in israel, (against international law) and no one looks, or thinks about this.. assasination, which is considered by your laws to be a terrorist act, is still used in Israel, and i do not see your government or media labeling Israel as a terrorist nation.

many Americans are misinformed, and that is the problem. if you come here, and endure an Israeli attack on your home, i do not think that you would forgive your own country for handing it the weapons it has........

why do you think America is the most hated country in the world?? and not Iraq, who is run by a dictator...

why do you think that half of Europe does not support your attack on Iraq?? are the french terrorists? it's because they have seen that to date, there is not real reason for the invasion of Iraq...

[001]

Palestine main reason


Its their Land

Who are the criminals?

Israelites : Murderous Trespassers
or Palestinians: defenders of their people and land?

This is so simple that a 2 year old could figure out

The poor palestinians are hanging on to rusting AK-47's or something whereas their opponents have state of the art killing machines. 8 yr old boys stand up against the tyrants Tanks

It is a little biblical when you think DAVID AND GOLIATH, and if i do seem to remember well, the lil guy won


On another point looking at Sharon's track record, he is no way a man of peace. He has a record of terrorism that is way bigger than any man or state in the world EVER!!

[celebguy_dv]

no

[hotgin20]

no

[Specijalac]

I support Palestine !!

Holly Land, and promised land, and all that is :rolleyes: :( .
Who promise that land to them ?
Jesus ?

They think so but i don't.
I know that only Europe-America promise them that land.
Israelis force out Palestinians from their own homes,from their own land.

Why world only let Israel to have nuclear weapons in Midd-East ?
How come for like 40-50 years Israel become superpower,and nuclear state ?
And they have a great army,weapons,thanks,helicopters,airplanes,technology i mean everything.

One word U.S.A !! The biggest terrorist country in the world are behaind Israelis.

USA was friend with Saddam Hussein when he was fighting 8 years war against Iran.They helped him then,Donald Rumsfeld was meeting him in Baghdad and supporting him. And today they say he was a biggest threat for America after Bin Laden. Come on !!

O yes biggest threat for America,the Osama Bin Laden.
REMEMBER America help Talibans and Mujahedins to fight Russians in Afghanistan,support them and supplay them with everything.And today everyone knows what is going on !!

Also during agression in Bosnia & Herzegovina 1992-95 America help Mujahedins to come in Bosnia and give them everything to fight Serbs and Croats.They where working secretly with Iran,Pakistan,Indonesia,Saudi Arabia and helping Bosnian army and Mujahedins to fight Serbs and Croats.

Now they try to put them all in Guantanamo Bay,where they are holding how they say terrorists..

And one more thing i can say about Palestinian-Israeli conflict..

This is not going to end..This will bring a WWIII very soon..Or war how they say East against West,Islam against Christianity..The ARMAGEDON !!

And i almost forgot this.

Some 3 or 4 thousands Jews use to work in WTC, but none of them COME ON SEPTEMBER 11,2001 !!

This what Bush is doing is allready war against Islam. But most Muslims don't see that way,when they do is gonna be bad.

No WMD in Iraq,no evidence that Saddam was supporting terrorism..Just Hamas,but that was not the chase.

Afghanistan first,now Iraq then Iran,Sirya or meybe even Pakistan.

It's like that my friends.

[krazee_zippy]

palestines...im with Severus on this one....

hi im new :D

[Lallou]

I support Palestine !!

Holly Land, and promised land, and all that is :rolleyes: :( .
Who promise that land to them ?
Jesus ?

They think so but i don't.
I know that only Europe-America promise them that land.
Israelis force out Palestinians from their own homes,from their own land.

Why world only let Israel to have nuclear weapons in Midd-East ?
How come for like 40-50 years Israel become superpower,and nuclear state ?
And they have a great army,weapons,thanks,helicopters,airplanes,technology i mean everything.

One word U.S.A !! The biggest terrorist country in the world are behaind Israelis.

USA was friend with Saddam Hussein when he was fighting 8 years war against Iran.They helped him then,Donald Rumsfeld was meeting him in Baghdad and supporting him. And today they say he was a biggest threat for America after Bin Laden. Come on !!

O yes biggest threat for America,the Osama Bin Laden.
REMEMBER America help Talibans and Mujahedins to fight Russians in Afghanistan,support them and supplay them with everything.And today everyone knows what is going on !!

Also during agression in Bosnia & Herzegovina 1992-95 America help Mujahedins to come in Bosnia and give them everything to fight Serbs and Croats.They where working secretly with Iran,Pakistan,Indonesia,Saudi Arabia and helping Bosnian army and Mujahedins to fight Serbs and Croats.

Now they try to put them all in Guantanamo Bay,where they are holding how they say terrorists..

And one more thing i can say about Palestinian-Israeli conflict..

This is not going to end..This will bring a WWIII very soon..Or war how they say East against West,Islam against Christianity..The ARMAGEDON !!

And i almost forgot this.

Some 3 or 4 thousands Jews use to work in WTC, but none of them COME ON SEPTEMBER 11,2001 !!

This what Bush is doing is allready war against Islam. But most Muslims don't see that way,when they do is gonna be bad.

No WMD in Iraq,no evidence that Saddam was supporting terrorism..Just Hamas,but that was not the chase.

Afghanistan first,now Iraq then Iran,Sirya or meybe even Pakistan.

It's like that my friends.

Exactly, I totally agree. The US is totally backing Isreal. Whenever Isreal and Palestina have somesort of agreement, and Palestinians break that with a suicide-bomb or whatever, that is terrorism. BUT when Isreal kill Sheik Ya Sein, while he is coming out of the mosque for Fajr prayer (Or going to the mosque) after he spent God knows how long in the Isreali presion, that is not terrorism, that is just self defense. Self defense my ass! And then Sharon has the balls to congratulate himself on TV, that is just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. He admitted to the murder and he is not even touched. That is what I call bull shit and being totally unfair.

[adnanzzz]

I know I am asking a lot, but you could use your tiny one and explain why you say this stupid thing...again.
:rolleyes:

Many people explained you why but you keep acting ignorant (wich you probably are anyway) so it's up to tou to show these people you are right

[Ivan]

Hello....

Sorry to join in on this conversation so late.

It's hard to pick a side on this one because each side has two sides. Meaning, you got the terrorist Palestenians, those who will strap a bomb to themselves and go into a discoteque and blow everyone in it to smithereens thinking that somehow that explosion will grant Palestine a state. But you also got the Palestenians who just want to live in peace and not be bothered by the Jews and be caugh up in centuries old political war. Then you got the Jews on the other side - you got the terrorists who will fire a USA made Tomahawk rocket into a refugee camp killing 20 children ("aha but we suspected that the cousin of Hamas' leaders best friends brother was hiding there") thinking somehow that the Palestenians won't responde with a suicide attack killing 20 of Jewsih children in Israel. The rest of the Jews just want to live in peace and not have to worry if they'll make it to work each morning or be killed in the bus on their way to there.

Until ALL of the following three factors are competely gone, there will never be a chance to talk peace:

*Zionist policies of Ariel Sharon and his government
*Support of these Zionist policies by George Bush and the USA government.
*Yasser Arafat and the terrorist radical Islamic groups operating in Palestine.

Once these three factors are no longer in play, the following must be done if they are to have peace:
*Cease of violence from both sides
*Complete withdrawal by Israeli's occupying forces from Gaza & West Bank (pre-1967 borders)
*Complete dismantlement of all Jewish settlements in Gaza & West Bank
*Establishment and recognition of the Palestenian State by UN (incl USA & Israel)
*Investment and contribution to help the economy of the Palestenian state (especially from Arab countries)
*Jerusalem to gain special UN status as a "Free-zone" (ie won't belong to either state, but will be shared among two countries and administered by UN)

Wishful thinking, but those ahole's will never have peace unless they committ to the above (or something similar)

[tony_montana]

I go with Palestine. I know it may not seem logical or reasonable to support Palestine at first glance. You may even think, how barbarous! Supporting terrorists that blow themselves up killing innocents in buses! After all this is mostly what you see in news networks and newspapers. But once you’re really interested by something what you do is read and learn about it. It is easy to condemn any of the two sides just because you feel they are right from what you could scoped out from the media and current events.
I have done quite a bit of reading about historical events that concern Palestine/ Israel and let me tell you many of them were not very pretty.
Did you know that what you condemn so viciously as terrorism was introduced to the conflict by Israeli supporters? The poor equipped Israeli army of the early stages (but don’t get me wrong poorly equipped but organized) terrorized villages to get people out and then claim the land unoccupied and settled. This was done by completely slaughtering small villages, leaving a few alive to run away and tell the story to neighboring villages who in turn got scared and fled. Maybe this doesn’t fit your description of terrorism (even if it truly is). The form of terrorism that you are most familiar with (blowing up “civilians” and things) was also introduced by Israeli. Remember the king David hotel incident? Not familiar with it? Start researching.
If a group of people took over your house at force killing your dad in the process and locking you in the basement what would you do? If you been lock there as long as you can remember living from scrap food? If One day you have the chance to kill one of them and the whole neighborhood calls you a murderer and condemn you?
Another thing. I find it funny that people despise terrorist. They give their life while killing their enemies. Iam not saying that’s good, killing in general is bad and I despise it. At least they are not cowards that sit in front of a .50 caliber rifle that can rip through your skull from 1000 feet away shooting at young men that only hope they can live normally. If I were in there situation I won’t give up my life. I would plant the bombs and get the hell out of there. I bet anyone in their desperate situation would.
The point I want to make is that don’t condemn, read from unbiased sources, read opinions from both sides and learn a little. I know I went and babbled about my opinion, but I strongly believe, we as a world community are letting awful thing go by just because its simpler and more beneficial to support one side. You now what I mean.

[tony_montana]

"Good point. Arabs just need to get over it and deal with the situation. The Palestinians can, should and will have their own state. Israel is going nowhere though, so just deal with it."
bull!bull!bull!!!!!!!!!!!!!
do this Typical senarios seem familiar?

...kidnap them from there homes, put them in slavery living like pigs for many years and dieing like animals. Hundreds years later...we are sorry... we didnt mean it it was our ancestors wi didnt mean it... here we built you a statue, theres nothing else we can do.. now, get on and clean my toilet.

OR


Kill those bastards, dstroy their so called homes that are nothing more than uncivillized muck! Give them blankets with small pox as presents so they die and then the land will be ours. Make their life impossible, follow them up to canada non stop until they die of fatigue and surrender their dignity to us. Some years later...poor indians how they suffered. Oh well what can we do ITS NOT LIKE WE COULD MOVE EVERYTHING WE ARE HERE TO STAY! ITS NOT LIKE ITS OUR FAULT! by the wy what ever happened to them? my taoilet would need a nice cleaning.

F*** this, just thinking about it makes me cry... animals why couldnt you stay in europe and slauther yourselfs up.

"I am tired of fighting… My heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever." Chief Joseph

Hundred years from now...oh poor palestinians we slauther them and disseminated them around the world....bla bla bla.... bull....bull...bull. Oh well, lets go to the dead sea and float around.

If an indian would have killed a whole villiage of eropean settlers i wouldnt have cry and i think neither would you. Israelis will burn in hell for what they are doing( and dont come with the crap that most of them are inocent because they are not...they now what is happenning and they are part of the problem).
money makes this world turn, and you cant deny it! you are rich? powerful? then it doesnt matter what the hell you do.

[Chileno]

Israel should have never existed as an independent nation, they should have been a region within Palestine or simply a sub culture or religion. The only ones who screw up big were the allies after the war, specificaly the U.S. and the U.K., who do they think they are, dividing arab world as they see fit?? (for economic reasons obviously)

How would the U.S react if some foreign nation came and said that they will create the Siux nation?? I bet they wouldn't like that very much.

[nzbm]

I think that this issue is unsolvable short of total war. However I will write from two perspectives:
The Palestinian:
I have lived in Palestine all my life. My family has lived in Palestine for generations. I hate the Israelis because they have taken my land and I now live in a refugee camp where I am liable to be blown up by a helicopter gunship each time I go out the door. I will kill any Israeli who gets in my way.

The Israeli:
I have lived in Israel all my life. My family left Israel hundreds of years ago being forced out. My parents came back to get back our land. I hate the Palestinians because they fail to recognise that I want my land back and now that I have most of it back I am liable to be blown up by a suicide bomber when I catch the bus or go shopping. I will kill any Palestinian who gets in my way.

[nzbm]

Israel exists because of the Zionist movement for a Jewish homeland. Israel is backed by the majority of the major nations such as the US and UK because, believe it or not: 1/3 of Israels populus was born in either Europe or America. They are trying to protect the citizens or former citizens of their countries who are claiming their Israeli legal right to live in Israel. Read the following page and look at the statistics surrounding Israel.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html

[nzbm]

I dont' like the conspiracy surrounding Jews and 9/11. Very interesting.

It is an article of faith in many Muslim countries that Israel was behind the attack on the World Trade Center, with many citing as their evidence a "news report" that 4,000 Israelis called in sick from their jobs at the World Trade Center on Sept. 11. The allegation has now appeared on scores of Web sites and bulletin boards, has been reproduced in e-mails too numerous to count, and has run as fact in newspapers and news broadcasts in the Middle East. Where did this charge originate, and what path did it take around the world?
http://slate.msn.com/?id=116813

[iceman1509]

Neither. Have the UN build forces around the entire war zone. Drop weapons onto both sides and let them duke it out once and for all. Either that or take all the Palestinians and all the Isrealies and send them to seperate islands in the Pacific and Atlantic.

[giorgiob8]

Part of the original State of Palestine before WWII is Southern Lebanon. Why nobody here raises the question of why if they are Arabs too they don't give the land back to their brothers in need. On the other hand, if borders have to be re-drawn to prior 1968 when a group of Arab countries attacked Israel losing the current territories to them some of the disputted land by Palestinians will not go to them but to other surrounding Arab countries.
If the Palestinians want statehood why they walked out of the Barak plan in 1998 sponsored by Bill Clinton when 98% of the land they claim occupied now by Israel was offered to them?

[zenden9]

One funny things I noticed,Israel is situated in asia continent and why the r they playing under UEFA??? :confused: You mean can can choose what ever soccer federation u like without considering yr country geograhication.

[Ivan]

One funny things I noticed,Israel is situated in asia continent and why the r they playing under UEFA??? :confused: You mean can can choose what ever soccer federation u like without considering yr country geograhication.


Thank you Zenden - I always found that funny too. While we're at it, why not bring Lebanon, Palestine, and Syria into UEFA. Perhaps even Iraq? :dontcare: :p

[*croatia*]

i cant be on anyones side!i think that people who live there forgot how it is to live in peace and that war will go on until they dont kill eachother!
sad thing is that they say that israel is a holly land to them,and jet they are killing,destroying and spreading hate...do they think that jesus and alah want that?!?

[giorgiob8]

One funny things I noticed,Israel is situated in asia continent and why the r they playing under UEFA??? You mean can can choose what ever soccer federation u like without considering yr country geograhication.
Turkey is in Asia and plays under UEFA too. Cyprus is in Asia and they belong to UEFA. More than 80% of Russia is in Asia and the Russian federation plays under UEFA too.
Guyana, French Guyana and Surinam are in South America and they all play under CONCACAF and not COMEBOL.
What is the point in bringing this point up?

[zenden9]

Turkey is in Asia and plays under UEFA too. Cyprus is in Asia and they belong to UEFA. More than 80% of Russia is in Asia and the Russian federation plays under UEFA too.
Guyana, French Guyana and Surinam are in South America and they all play under CONCACAF and not COMEBOL.
What is the point in bringing this point up?

Turkey is situated between asia and europe continent so it can choose who want to join. Cyprus is an island and same like turkey,in between.(Look at the world map carefully!)Russian capital is Moscow which is situated under europe and it chooses to join UEFA is also understandable! For Guyana, French Guyana and Surinam case,I 'm not very sure. Because I'm not expert in south america.

Don't u think Israel case is very special.It position is absolutely not related to europe but asia!

[giorgiob8]

Turkey is situated between asia and europe continent so it can choose who want to join.
Look at the map carefully, only a small tip of Turkey which is West Istambul is situated in Europe, probably 99.9% of the country is in Asia including the capital (apply the same rule you apply to Russia, please), absolutely everywhere except for Football Turkey is an Asian country; so the case is exactly the same as Israel. Same for Cypruss.
The Falkland Islands as today belong to Great Britain, do that give the British the right to move to South America, same as France with Saint Pierre and Michelon (not sure about the spelling) and Spain with Celta and Melilla being in Africa. So don't get too particular about Geographical bounderies and Football. So, why Great Britain being only one country has 4 football associations? (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Island)
Why you don't pick on France who has a team that is more African than European? It has to be Israel.

[Ivan]

Ok - to be fair, Turkey should play in Asia too :thumbsup:

[hareega]

Palestine, for sure!!

Israel has been offending all UN rules agaisnt them sicne they founded their country 60 years ago, and palestenians were the victims.

Just notice that suicide bombing started only in the late 80s or 90s, half a century after the world was silent about the massacres Israelis were committing agaisnt Palestenians

[zenden9]

Look at the map carefully, only a small tip of Turkey which is West Istambul is situated in Europe, probably 99.9% of the country is in Asia including the capital (apply the same rule you apply to Russia, please), absolutely everywhere except for Football Turkey is an Asian country; so the case is exactly the same as Israel. Same for Cypruss..

In what way,is turkey 99.9% Asia? A 50%-50% will be more accurate


The Falkland Islands as today belong to Great Britain, do that give the British the right to move to South America, same as France with Saint Pierre and Michelon (not sure about the spelling) and Spain with Celta and Melilla being in Africa...

I think this quote is way out of main topic! Falkland island,saint pierre,celta,melilla r colonies. How can u use colonies to backup yr point? Pls look at the main countries!



So don't get too particular about Geographical bounderies and Football. So, why Great Britain being only one country has 4 football associations? (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Island).

If u ask a scottish whether he wants his country men to join england as united team? He will reply' F**K U!' Why? Did u watch the show 'Brave heart'?
Same applies to Wales,Northern Island.They considered themselves different from the British! Only when threaten by outsider(German,France...in terms of war not sport!)then they will call themselves United kingdom!. Because they speaks english among themselves!


Why you don't pick on France who has a team that is more African than European? It has to be Israel.

I don't understand what u trying to say? They r still France,they have the citizenship!


I'm just trying to find out how they differ which countries shall play under which football federation since in the first place I thought they shall look at the gepgraphical postion.Now I think they look at the races! The whites shall united,the black stick together,the asian join forces! :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Is it? The Israeli r considered white?

[Katerina]

This is one of the most sensitive political subjects ...

I've had friends from both sides - so it's difficult for me to "judge" on whose side I'm on ... it's more a question of what can be done in order to solve this ... to equally divide a piece of land between 2 nations to share and live on ...

Getting rid of both Arafat and Sharon could be a starting point - they have both become vindictive against one another - almost like a personal war ... change both leaders and begin peace talks immediately .... divide the land equally ... geez - it's a lot better that way than having to live in fear or attacks etc. throughout one's entire life ... I know, it's simple to write our "ideas" on a message board ... but I just HATE THOSE DARN STIFF-NECKED POLITICIANS who run our darn lives and think they're GODS !!!!!

Anyhoo .... if anyone's interested - here's a few sites you can visit and make up your own mind on this subject.


http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

http://www.merip.org/palestine-israel_primer/toc-pal-isr-primer.html

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

http://www.israelipalestinianprocon.org/

[EASports]

It takes a brave palestinian to stand up against a tank with
slingshot's & stones.

It takes a brave Israeli to get on a public bus & gamble travelling
not knowing if it is the daily suicide target.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter ?

[Katerina]

It takes a brave palestinian to stand up against a tank with slingshot's & stones.

It takes a brave Israeli to get on a public bus & gamble travelling
not knowing if it is the daily suicide target.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter ?

You summed it up in those 3 sentences ... and that's why it's such a tragic situation - with an extremely difficult resolution.

[zenden9]

This is the real brave one! One man vs 4 tanks!
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v353/akagi/Tianamen_Massacre.jpg

[giorgiob8]

That's a good pic Zenden. Although taken far away from the region we are talking about. The Tianamem Square in China.

As far as the Geographical borders vs Football borders, you are making my point. As today dependent territories are part of the countries that ruled them and is up to the UN or other political body to resolve this issue. if a person is born in Ceuta and wants to play for Spain neither FIFA or ourselves can say that this player is not Spaniard, same way half of the French Team is more rooted on its African ancestry than oon anything else.

Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish might feel about Great Britain the same way Basques feel about Spain and France, Chechens about Russians or Qubequeans about Canada; but again FIFA should not get involved in such issues. Didn't Craots, Slovenians or Bosnians played under Yuguslavia for decades as long as they were imposed dependency to this fabricated country?
I am just saying that I do not see a problem with all this irregularities including the Israel case. Some on this board are the ones who have a problem. I am fine with everything the way it is.
But off the record, before you reply again goo and look at the map of Turkey again, you might have confused the country with another one. The Eropean-Asian border goes from the Aegean Sea, through the Dardanelle Strait, to the Marmara Sea, to the Black Sea, to The Caucasian Mountains to the Caspian Sea. As far as I know only a small tip of Turkey is north of that line that veven Stevie Wonder can see that is quite less than 50%.
http://img.infoplease.com/images/mturkey.gif

[giorgiob8]

BTW, both Cypruss and Israel are way South of that line

[zenden9]

Nice Map! :thumbsup:

[bob bob]

Turn the WHOLE region INTO a GLASS parking lot and drill through the glass for the oil and give the REST to the Jews

PS GO USA

[adrianofan]

Both the hebrew fighters and the palestinian fighters are messed up.... so I'm not on any side... I could never support either... not until the jews leave the palestinians alone and not until palestine (and other palestinian nations) stop either killing others(like Iran,Iraq,Saudi)/being prejudiced towards people of other religions(Iran,Iraq,everywhere else)/treating women like garbage(Iran,Iraq,everywhere else). So I say that the UN should try to solve this... and if we can't (which is most likely the case)... all we can do is just let those idiots kill eachother off because quite frankly, I don't think they'll ever grow up and learn. If 75% of the world leaders are corrupt, chances are Israel and the Palestinian "Freedom Fighters" will definately remain corrupt for a long, long time.

[Gennadios]

i cant believe someone started this thread :boo: :boo: :scream:

[Il fenomeno]

Is it not clear to all of you that israel is the culprit? Have they not breached all laws which exist, in this "democratic" world where everyone is equal. Seems like laws were only made for the "barbaric" muslims, and not the so much sophisticated zionists.

Just reflects on how corrupt you society is, also magnifies the many flaws in you silly democratic system. Yeah, stop being naive, tell me one nation in the west which is a democracy... thats what I thought.

Secondly, I do not believe that muslims carry out these so called suicide attacks. You must ask whose agendas benefit from these bombings. Palestinians want a place to live in, and blowing themselves up and killing citizens of the rogue nation would not help their cause. However, it does help Israel's cause. Just question the convenience of these attacks. Israel came under vast criticism from the world, regarding their illegal wall. but "luckily" for israel, some palestinian guy blows himself up and strengthens their case for the wall... see the convenience now? Israel has a history of doing illicit things and pinning it on the arabs,,, hey, their security agency has a nice slogan...

"by the art of deception"...

[hareega]

One funny things I noticed,Israel is situated in asia continent and why the r they playing under UEFA??? :confused: You mean can can choose what ever soccer federation u like without considering yr country geograhication.

They used to play in Asia but the Asian Federation kicked them out after their 1967 war when they occupied Palestine and refused to withdraw from it according to the UN rules

[devious]

They used to play in Asia but the Asian Federation kicked them out after their 1967 war when they occupied Palestine and refused to withdraw from it according to the UN rules
That`s because There are no jews in Asia ,most of them in Europe!! :silly:
I don`t like to speak about this really although I`m an ARABIAN EGYPTION and I have the all true view of this problem.. I can explain who is right and wrong in this case with the reasons and dates if you want.. but the problem is that I don`t have so much time and secondly Most of you won`t belive me.. so I better don`t waste my time. :question:

[PAO_HELLAS]

Palestine

[arminius]

palestine has been very unjustly treated, all the media ever goes on about is the suicide bombings and terrorists,while the daily attrocities being inflicted on the palestinians goes largely unreported. The american media is almost exclusively jewish and all it does is pump out anti-palenstinian propaganda,unfortunately many in the western countries are taken in by this without knowing the facts. Palestine has the rightful claim over the land and should be able to live their without being oppressed by the jews.In regard to the suicide bombings what's the alternative,are they supposed to just accept the fact that they've been screwed and lay down like dogs,in military terms they can't compete with a U.S backed israel,unfortunately their is no other option but to fight with the only means possible to them, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Britian also shoulder's a heavy responsibility for this whole catastrophic situation, what where they thinking back in the 1940's when they created this mess.

[FAJA]

Britian also shoulder's a heavy responsibility for this whole catastrophic situation, what where they thinking back in the 1940's when they created this mess.

They weren't is the simple answer, the main objective was to get British troops out as quickly as possible as they were being blown up daily by Jewish terrorists. In fact the British mandate was ended early because of this and the problem turned over to the UN.

Anyway, I support the Palestinians, firstly, because the Israelis used what can only be described as ethnic clensing to increase their original share of the land an example being at Dier Yassim (I think). Secondly, the Israelis have repeatedly elected terrorists and war criminals as leaders like Begin and Sharon, what Sharon allowed to happen in Lebanon is unforgiveable. Israeli soldiers (most of whom in Gaza are Bedouin(sp?) Arabs) also kill foreign journalists who try to report on the plight of Palestinians. Lastly, the only Israeli leader who was honestly entirely committed to peace was Itzhak Rabin (sp?) and he was assassinated by, guess who..............Mossad.

Although, to be fair the Palestinians aren't entirely blameless, they've also had their fair share of atrocities, for example the Israeli athletes and suicide bombings against innocent civilians. And of course Arafat's refusal of Barak's offer. Part of the blame for what happened in Lebanon must also go to the PLO as if they hadn't been hiding there in the first place chances are Israel would not have attacked

[Massimo]

Both sides dont have clean hands in the situation...
Palastinians should stop the terror.
Israelies should stop the occupation.
Thats about it.
Have a nice day! :smoking:

[nzbm]

True. Peace would be nice but where would the Israelis go? Back to their grandparents lands? I don't think so. There would be a comeback of the Irgun and Stern etc...

[toolio]

Well this is my first post and what a way to start it off.

First off, the definition of Palestine is "invaders from the sea." That right there puts a sour taste in your mouth. It has never been the name of a nation or state. It is a geographical term, used to designate the region at those times in history when there is no nation or state there.

The word itself derives from "Peleshet", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". The Philistines were mediterranean people originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They reached the southern coast of Israel in several waves. One group arrived in the pre-patriarchal period and settled south of Beersheba in Gerar where they came into conflict with Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael. Another group, coming from Crete after being repulsed from an attempted invasion of Egypt by Rameses III in 1194 BCE, seized the southern coastal area, where they founded five settlements (Gaza, Ascalon, Ashdod, Ekron and Gat). In the Persian and Greek periods, foreign settlers - chiefly from the Mediterranean islands - overran the Philistine districts. From the time of Herodotus, Greeks called the eastern coast of the Mediterranean "Syria Palaestina".

You have to look beyond the Ottoman Empire, before the 15th century. I support Israel. Here is a quote from the late Military Department Head of the PLO.

"Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian
identity serves only tactical purposes. The
founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool
in the continuing battle against Israel ...
-- Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head
of the PLO and member of its Executive
Council, Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977"

Adam

[lsgworldl]

none

[Esmeron]

Palestine.

Its a shame in todays world Israel can get away with mass genocide and humiliation of an entire people while they suck away at billions of dollars of US taxpayers money. Not only that but the breaking of UN resolutions too while others get punished for it.

[toolio]

Palestine.

Its a shame in todays world Israel can get away with mass genocide and humiliation of an entire people while they suck away at billions of dollars of US taxpayers money. Not only that but the breaking of UN resolutions too while others get punished for it.

Go ahead and show me where UN resolutions are being broken. Many countries suck away at billions of dollars of the US taxpayers money, yet you point out Israel, which was an established state. Did you know that Palestine was NEVER a state, NEVER!

Adam

[S4cePL]

Go ahead and show me where UN resolutions are being broken. Many countries suck away at billions of dollars of the US taxpayers money, yet you point out Israel, which was an established state. Did you know that Palestine was NEVER a state, NEVER!

Adam
So waht if they were never a state. The fact is, after the Babylonian Exile and the Assyrian conquest of Israel, a majority of the Jews were dispersed throughout the world and never returned to the Middle East before WW2. So my point is, what gives them the right to just all of a sudden go back to the Middle East and tell the palestinians to get the f**K off their 'promised' land? I am 100% behind the Palestinians but I don't support their suicide bombing tactics. I think diplomacy shoudl be used instead of violence in order to achieve the end result of moving the jews to say Antartica and letting the Palestinians remain where they currently are.

[bitsakos]

Israel.
No need to say more, they are clearly the ones with some brains.
american doll

[PAO_HELLAS]

american doll

If yopu mean Israel is American doll, that is very wrong... It is exactly the oposite.

[toolio]

So waht if they were never a state. The fact is, after the Babylonian Exile and the Assyrian conquest of Israel, a majority of the Jews were dispersed throughout the world and never returned to the Middle East before WW2.

dispersed is not the right word.. Exhiled, outcasted should be the correct term. So what if they werent there for many many years, theres no right for another race to take over WHEN THEY CLEARLY KNEW it was promised to another. I mean, they were gone for the better, otherwise they would have been completely eradicated. by the way, no race has EVER been almost eradicated and grew back to its size in history.

Adam

[ToonArmyIsComin]

Unfortunately this conflict has got to a stage where it won't be solved unless the "fight the terrorists/Zionists" on both sides die or lose their support. Sharon, Likud and Hamas are the biggest obstacles to peace and by killing each other, their support is growing among the general population! It’s a cycle now where there’s no end to violence since each side have legitimate claims about something! Palestinians say “look, Israelis are shooting our children� then Israelis say “look, they are killing our children� and they kill for one more round to annihilate the “terrorists/Zionists�! Sad to say it, but unless both sides give up something, they won’t get peace.

[toolio]

Unfortunately this conflict has got to a stage where it won't be solved unless the "fight the terrorists/Zionists" on both sides die or lose their support. Sharon, Likud and Hamas are the biggest obstacles to peace and by killing each other, their support is growing among the general population! It’s a cycle now where there’s no end to violence since each side have legitimate claims about something! Palestinians say “look, Israelis are shooting our children� then Israelis say “look, they are killing our children� and they kill for one more round to annihilate the “terrorists/Zionists�! Sad to say it, but unless both sides give up something, they won’t get peace.

you forgot to throw in Arafat, the worlds richest terrorist.

Adam

[ToonArmyIsComin]

you forgot to throw in Arafat, the worlds richest terrorist.

Adam

Still my point stands that the conflict is not about the land anymore. It's just about fighting the enemy or the "terrorist"!

[Jesus]

Quite frankly I don't care for ethier side. They are simply destroying the Holy Land and my father is none to happy about it.

[ToonArmyIsComin]

Quite frankly I don't care for ethier side. They are simply destroying the Holy Land and my father is none to happy about it.

Well the matter is more complicated than that. That land is holy land for 3 religions.

[PAO_HELLAS]

Well the matter is more complicated than that. That land is holy land for 3 religions.

All three religions with Jewish origin. However Islam started in Arabian peniscula which is not affected by the fight between Israel and Palestine.

[lsgworldl]

Life
Mysterious Life
We're moving around, dancing the rhythm of life.
Time
Mysterious Time
We're counting the hours and days to the end of all time.

And we're feeling the change and we don't know why
Choose one direction just one more time
Don't say I'm thinking too much if you see what's behind.

Chorus
And these are Mysterious Times
Mysterious Times
No trick of the mind
For this moment I feel like we live in Mysterious Times.
If you see what's behind, these are Mysterious Times.

Soul
I feel my soul
For this moment nobody can stop me from flying so high.
Real
Nothing is Real
In a world of illusion you only see what you feel.

And we're feeling the change and we don't know why
Choose one direction just one more time
Don't say I'm thinking too much if you see what's behind

Chorus

If you see what's behind, these are Mysterious Times

[nzbm]

you forgot to throw in Arafat, the worlds richest terrorist.

Adam
yeah
he is in a French military hospital undergoing tests.
lol. the French must love him...

[lsgworldl]

yeah
he is in a French military hospital undergoing tests.
lol. the French must love him...
he is prob paying them a lot of money, they might kil him by accident lol :dead: