So much for the term "unilateral".....in other words Fvck France and Germany

[Ronnie Raygun]

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2003/1/30/101845

The Good Euros: Eight Nations Thank U.S., Snub France and Germany

Those uppity, self-obsessed, ungrateful Frenchies and Germans don't speak for a continent: Eight European leaders today thanked America for for its "bravery and generosity" in ensuring peace.

Britain, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland and Denmark, in an indirect but obvious snub of pro-Saddam Paris, Berlin and Moscow, used an op-ed column to say that U.S.-European ties "must not become a casualty" of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's attempts to "threaten world security."

"We must remain united in insisting that his regime be disarmed. The solidarity, cohesion and determination of the international community are our best hope of achieving this peacefully. Our strength lies in unity," said the article, printed today in the Wall Street Journal, the London Times and other European newspapers.

Europe has "a common responsibility to face this threat. Failure to do so would be nothing less that negligent to our own citizens and to the wider world," the leaders noted.

"It they [U.N. demands] are not complied with, the Security Council will lose its credibility and world peace will suffer as a result. We are confident that the Security Council will face up to its responsibilities," the article concluded.

The article was signed by Czech President Vaclav Havel and by Jose Aznar, Jose-Manuel Durao Barroso, Silvio Berlusconi, Tony Blair, Peter Medgyessy, Leszek Miller and Anders Fogh Rasmussen, prime ministers respectively of Spain, Portugal, Italy, Britain, Hungary, Poland and Denmark.

The letter is "certain to be a boost to President Bush," the Associated Press said.

As Fox News Channel, CNSNews.com, AP and other media have reported, unilateralist France, German and Russia are eager to suck up to Saddam and ignore his atrocities because of the heavy financial interests they have in his regime.

[Sebi]

Good chance to hate Germany again!
After the 2WW everybody hated us
- now, we don`t want to have any "oil-war" everybody hates us again, how funny :)

[Ronnie Raygun]

Yeah! You were hated for a good reason, were you not. Thank GOD for the U.S. and the allies.

You don't exactly have a good track record to stand on.

[Sebi]

I know, because the germans did cruel things, you can`t forgive.
But it wasn`t me! I thank GOD that my parents were born in a Germany without a war.

But you can`t forget that Nazi-Germany is more than 50 years ago.
May i remind you, that Germany made peace in Kosovo/Afgahnistan after the USA made war ?

Why do we need war again ?

[Mendieta]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
You don't exactly have a good track record to stand on.

And you do??? Being the only country that nuked two cites killing babies, children, women! Unfriggen believable!

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Sebi


But you can`t forget that Nazi-Germany is more than 50 years ago.
May i remind you, that Germany made peace in Kosovo/Afgahnistan after the USA made war ?

Why do we need war again ?

I personally have nothing against Germany. I don't appreciate their lack of support at the moment though (not saying I want war here, but I think they could be a bit more supportive of us).

If Germany made peace in those two instances, let me remind you who sent the most troops to uphold that peace.

[Sebi]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
I personally have nothing against Germany. I don't appreciate their lack of support at the moment though (not saying I want war here, but I think they could be a bit more supportive of us).

If Germany made peace in those two instances, let me remind you who sent the most troops to uphold that peace.
I know, Germany acts actually a little bit unintelligent.
But let`s think about that in a very easy way: What`s wrong to say we don`t support a war, that seems not justified to us.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Sebi
I know, Germany acts actually a little bit unintelligent.
But let`s think about that in a very easy way: What`s wrong to say we don`t support a war, that seems not justified to us.

Nothing wrong with not supporting the war. The problem I have is that they should have been more diplomatic to the US about it. We've been very good friends and allies over the years. After all, do you really want to turn into France?

[Sebi]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
Nothing wrong with not supporting the war. The problem I have is that they should have been more diplomatic to the US about it. We've been very good friends and allies over the years. After all, do you really want to turn into France?

I know we`ve been good friends. I think our government wants our friendship back, but maybe they make something wrong!
But i think, the U.S.A reacts a little bit rough to us!

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Sebi
I know we`ve been good friends. I think our government wants our friendship back, but maybe they make something wrong!
But i think, the U.S.A reacts a little bit rough to us!

It all boils down to understanding. I don't think Germany understands how seriously we took the 9/11 attacks and how much it's affected us. You've seen that sorta thing before, we haven't really. I think the "rough" stance towards Germany is due largely to a lack of communication. Gerhard must not have communicated the stance Germany was taking (or his reasons why) before he came out and made it public. His stance does seem politically motivated by the way.

[Juan]

The way I see it, France and Germany are hellbent in turning Europe into a superpower all by itself.

[Mate]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
I personally have nothing against Germany. I don't appreciate their lack of support at the moment though (not saying I want war here, but I think they could be a bit more supportive of us).


I personally have nothing against the U.S. But I don't appreciate their lack of support when it came to the Kyoto agreement, the ICC, the landmines agreement and so on.

The 8 can sign whatever they want, but the public opinion is against this war even in those 8 countries. Why? Not that Sadam is sympathetic to anyone in Europe - but Bush ain't too. With this all too arogant sheriff in power, the U.S. image in Europe will hardly improve even if the new Gulf war goes on smoothly and ends quickly. We are the strongest country in the world and we can do whatever we want to do logic is not particulary appealing at this side of the Atlantic. (As far as I understand, even not in the U.S.)

In 1991 I thought that the world does need a "world cop", and I still think so, but certainly we don't need John Wayne.

[Borba]

"But you can`t forget that Nazi-Germany is more than 50 years ago.
May i remind you, that Germany made peace in Kosovo/Afgahnistan after the USA made war ?

Why do we need war again ? "

Was it not germany that first recognised croatia as an independant state thus setting off the civil wars in yugoslavia?

[zeleni jurèek]

another good reason to support Germany in its effort...

The whole Iraq conflict stands only on the US intelligence (cannot really trust them) and the rage of the 11/9. Is it enough? It could be enough, but the UN and EU must be in consensus for such an action, so i see just one problem...

What will be gained to Europe with such a war. With endurance of war for just 3 weeks, EU should face recession! US can go to hell, you chosed you President and his policy about Near East issues, we didn't. And if we did (like in Germany), Europeans surely want to have their selected official keep his promise. So why make Europeans stupid, if they are smarter then you?

[Sebi]

Originally posted by Borba


Was it not germany that first recognised croatia as an independant state thus setting off the civil wars in yugoslavia?

pls, we won`t start with this ***kin comparisons!

or do you really want to compare the crueltys the USA did and Germany did ?

[Ronnie Raygun]

Sebi,

"May i remind you, that Germany made peace in Kosovo/Afgahnistan after the USA made war ?"

Uuuum. No. Slobo and Osama made war.....we and the allies finished it......and WE made peace after. Sebi=ill advised.

"Why do we need war again ?"

The same reason we always need war. To rid the world of madmen.

Mensdiet,

"And you do??? Being the only country that nuked two cites killing babies, children, women! Unfriggen believable!"

Wake up ass! Women and children die in every war. Dropping the bombes saved lives. The only alternative was to invade and that would have cost many more casualties. I'll tell you what's disgusting.....Canada's contribution to the war....only 37,000 casualties. NO Civilian deaths. Just another example of you being a leech.

Sebi,

"What`s wrong to say we don`t support a war, that seems not justified to us."

Terrorists aren't blowing up you friends and neighbors either.

AZUL,

"Nothing wrong with not supporting the war. The problem I have is that they should have been more diplomatic to the US about it."

We've had 12 years of diplomacy.....diplomacy that has not worked.....how much more time does Saddam need to comply to U.N. resolutions?

Mate,

Address the issues, not your fvcked up prejudices.

Sebi,

"or do you really want to compare the crueltys the USA did and Germany did ?"

Don't go there. You started 2 World Wars. Nothing can compare to that.

[Sebi]

"The same reason we always need war. To rid the world of madmen."

So let`s throw some nuclear bombs on the Iraq, there will maybe die millions of innocent people and Saddam is still alive, but we can try it ? :rolleyes: I think Mr. Bush just wants to boost the economy!

"Terrorists aren't blowing up you friends and neighbors either."
That`s right, there aren`t so many attacks by terrorist, but do you think after an Iraq war, things are getting better for US people ? I think the opposite will happen!

"Don't go there. You started 2 World Wars. Nothing can compare to that."

I know that. But let me remind you again! It was not me, it was not my father, it was not my generation and the generation before. only because of that "YOU" in your sentence

[Ronnie Raygun]

"So let`s throw some nuclear bombs on the Iraq, there will maybe die millions of innocent people and Saddam is still alive, but we can try it ? I think Mr. Bush just wants to boost the economy!"

Yet another example of how one side of this debate refuses to address the issues seriously. **YEAH! WE'RE GONNA BLOW UP THE WORLD!!!!!** .......maybe you can relate to that, you simpleton.

"I know that. But let me remind you again! It was not me, it was not my father, it was not my generation and the generation before. only because of that "YOU" in your sentence"

Fair enough. I'm not talking about you as a person, I'm talking about you as a nation.

[Severus]

yeah that's so disgusting eh roonie, only 37,000 casualties. what an attrocity .....

nothing in comparison to the US --- the "leaders of the FREE world" dropping 2 nuclear bombs on japan while they were on the verge of defeat killing over 300,000 civilians and cantaminating their land forever.

i think yer as delusional as those brainwashed fundamentalists.

actually, i'm convinced.

[barça]

I just found this thread and the most amazing thing, is that guys with great posts such as Mendieta spend time arguing with a guy nicknamed Ronnie Raygun :rolleyes:

The guy has almost 1K posts and not one is about football:rolleyes:

Please

[Severus]

good point. arguing with the one who knows nothing about futbol is always worth a laugh or two though. ye just gotta take everything he says with a grain of salt because he's as stubbornly narrowminded as yanks come.

i do share the same sentiments towards france, germany and iraq as him however. so for that i guess he's not a complete meathead :D

GO GET 'EM W !!!

[Mendieta]

Originally posted by barça
I just found this thread and the most amazing thing, is that guys with great posts such as Mendieta spend time arguing with a guy nicknamed Ronnie Raygun :rolleyes:

The guy has almost 1K posts and not one is about football:rolleyes:

Please

You are so right Barca. I'm done argueing with him. I guess cause I'm new I haven't yet realized who are the ones to avoid if I don't want to feel like I'm smacking my head against a brick wall. Back to football and enough about politics. :)

[Ronnie Raygun]

I don't know anything about football huh?

And this is coming from a bunch of people who thought Argentina and Italy were going to be in the World Cup final....and that the U.S. would lose in the first round.

Yes.Yes.

And I predicted it all.

You people don't know sh1t about either.

[Mendieta]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
I don't know anything about football huh?

And this is coming from a bunch of people who thought Argentina and Italy were going to be in the World Cup final....and that the U.S. would lose in the first round.

Yes.Yes.

And I predicted it all.

You people don't know sh1t about either.

yeah, yeah, yeah.... Long live the MSL. We know... Believe me you don't even want to start debating football with me Georgia boy. Your way out of your league. I'll chew you up and spit you out before you can say the only player you probably know "Ronaldo". Ha,ha,ha... Stick to your American football.

[LeeXun]

Why USA always wanna break out the war?
Maybe they have no place to train their soldiers.
We are human, not wild animals!

I agree with Mendita's word:If he had anything, he would have showed it to us a long time ago. Yes, Saddam, is responsible for millions of murders, just like the U.S is responsible for millions of Arabs being murdered and let's not forget the Japenese and Hiroshima. Your so naive, it is sickening.

[Mate]

Hen dui. Meiguo ren tai tianzhen. ;)

During the World Cup 2002 I've also visited Hiroshima. Anyone who wants to play with fire, should see that museum. I'm sorry that it is located in Hiroshima; I wish it would be in Washington.

[LeeXun]

Mate:Are you Chinese?
Why you ara speaking Chinese?

Lao xiang jian lao xiang liang yan lei wang wang!555~~~

[Mate]

Xuexi Hanyu. Wo xiang xuexi Hanyu hen youyong, Zhongguo ren hen duo. Keshi bu tai rongyi.

Apologize to non-Chinese speakers ... We are discussing very serious matters relating to future of the FIFA, which must not be revealed to the general public yet. :D

[LeeXun]

o~
You are very good at Chinese now~
I even consider you to be a Chinese~

But just like you think Chinese is hard too learn,I also think English is not easy to learn...Er~~~~~~~My broken English~555~

[Ronnie Raygun]

"yeah, yeah, yeah.... Long live the MSL. We know... Believe me you don't even want to start debating football with me Georgia boy. Your way out of your league. I'll chew you up and spit you out before you can say the only player you probably know "Ronaldo". Ha,ha,ha... Stick to your American football." - Mensdiet

Yes, I can tell by that quote that you know plenty......(ha.)

"Why USA always wanna break out the war?
Maybe they have no place to train their soldiers.
We are human, not wild animals!"

We have plenty of places to train....Give me examples of always breaking out the war.

"I agree with Mendita's word:If he had anything, he would have showed it to us a long time ago."

Try this Wednesday.

"Yes, Saddam, is responsible for millions of murders, just like the U.S is responsible for millions of Arabs being murdered and let's not forget the Japenese and Hiroshima.

When did we murder millions of Arabs?

"Your so naive, it is sickening." - Leexung"

Well, then you're a communist pig.

"During the World Cup 2002 I've also visited Hiroshima. Anyone who wants to play with fire, should see that museum. I'm sorry that it is located in Hiroshima; I wish it would be in Washington." - Mate

I wish it were here too. I saw that museum once a few years back. You know that part where they have the model of the city after the bomb blew up? Well, I was standing at that model when this older man walked up and started pointing at the model and then pointing at me...Well, if you are familiar with the layout of Hiroshima after the bomb you would know that there was only one building left standing afterwards. .. . I pointed to that one building and said smiling .."look, we missed a spot".

I don't think there is a model of Pearl Harbor anywhere in Japan.

[Mendieta]

"yeah, yeah, yeah.... Long live the MSL. We know... Believe me you don't even want to start debating football with me Georgia boy. Your way out of your league. I'll chew you up and spit you out before you can say the only player you probably know "Ronaldo". Ha,ha,ha... Stick to your American football." - Mensdiet

Yes, I can tell by that quote that you know plenty......(ha.)

Brilliant!!! How can you tell all that just by what I said above. You are a genuis.
:rolleyes:

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Juan
The way I see it, France and Germany are hellbent in turning Europe into a superpower all by itself.

Good point. They are definately trying to make sure that they are not overshadowed by the US. They're no angels themselves and they're motivations should be thoroughly considered. France would do better to shut up and concentrate on the mess it's got in the Ivory Coast.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by LeeXun
, just like the U.S is responsible for millions of Arabs being murdered

How's that?

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun


AZUL,

"Nothing wrong with not supporting the war. The problem I have is that they should have been more diplomatic to the US about it."

We've had 12 years of diplomacy.....diplomacy that has not worked.....how much more time does Saddam need to comply to U.N. resolutions?



I was talking about France and Germany being more diplomatic towards us in terms of not supporting us. :rolleyes:

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Severus
as stubbornly narrowminded as yanks come.



You wanna explain that one, meathead? A comment like that is narrowminded itself.

[soccer fanatic]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
Good point. They are definately trying to make sure that they are not overshadowed by the US. They're no angels themselves and they're motivations should be thoroughly considered. France would do better to shut up and concentrate on the mess it's got in the Ivory Coast.

I don`t think it is good too let wrong decisions get in the way of making new decisions. You can`t do that cause it restricts your in your options.

I think France and Germany are free too give their opinion, you can differ in how it should be given. Diplomacy is nice, but in the end it is the point they make that counts and that always is a clear one, in or out, sometimes with restrictions.

[Severus]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
You wanna explain that one, meathead? A comment like that is narrowminded itself.

and how's that i'm not generalizing all americans !! all i said was that ronnie is as stubbornly narrowminded as an american can be. the individual in case you're still stunned.

you should go put your head through a slicer and see how many kilos of mortadella you can muster.

[HULK HOGAN]

Originally posted by LeeXun

I agree with Mendita's word:If he had anything, he would have showed it to us a long time ago. Yes, Saddam, is responsible for millions of murders, just like the U.S is responsible for millions of Arabs being murdered and let's not forget the Japenese and Hiroshima. Your so naive, it is sickening.




Millions??????

WHere did this figure come from

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Severus
and how's that i'm not generalizing all americans !! all i said was that ronnie is as stubbornly narrowminded as an american can be. the individual in case you're still stunned.

you should go put your head through a slicer and see how many kilos of mortadella you can muster.

Sure sounded like you were generalizing to me.

I couldn't generate nearly as much meat as you could. Then again, you probably wouldn't generate much with all the rocks in your head. ;) And BTW, you remind me of Archie Bunker, MEATHEAD! :eek: :D ;)

[Ronnie Raygun]

None of these Anti-American liars can explain how Americans are responsible for millions of Arab deaths.

The assertion is laughable.

[LeeXun]

Can you tell us?

[OAnimal]

France and Germany have probably the strongest economies in Europe (plus Great Britain) and their opinion should be taken into consideration. The 8 countries that supported USA point of view consist of standard US ass lickers like GB and three new ones (Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic), so I am not really sure if their opinion should be more relevant than the one of France and Germany (and most probably, some other countries too)...

[Ronnie Raygun]

"Can you tell us?" - Lee

No I can't.

Because it hasn't happened.

Can you?

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by OAnimal
France and Germany have probably the strongest economies in Europe (plus Great Britain) and their opinion should be taken into consideration. The 8 countries that supported USA point of view consist of standard US ass lickers like GB and three new ones (Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic), so I am not really sure if their opinion should be more relevant than the one of France and Germany (and most probably, some other countries too)...

Before you or anyone goes and praises the poor French and Germans, you should consider a few points. Their governments are more concerned with their political futures than anything else. Current contracts to drill in Iraq for oil are largely tied up by the French firm Elf. Finally, they're more concerned with keeping their heads above water in terms of world influence than they are about the people of Iraq. Whether their stance is wrong or not, I won't comment. However, their motives should be scrutinized.

[PopA]

i just have to comment on this thread

alright alright. maybe france and germany didn't support the USA. Big deal. The USA got the support of 8 countries, and even though France and Germany are powerful, Dubya couldn't care less about their opinions. The guy's a nitwit. Now ronnie and zul, don't get me wrong, i'm a US resident, my mom grew up in NY and my dad studied there. I've been going to the USA about 3 months out of each year of my life. I was there on election day 2000. I never liked Bush, he's a farmer and an idiot. He thinks that going around and bugging sadam is going to help people permanently forget about bin laden.
there was even a poll in europe about who people considered to be the biggest threat to world peace (this poll was taken the morning after his speech this week). 84% said Bush, 8% Saddam and 7% N. Korea, with a 1% undecided!
forget nationalism for a second, and stop to think about it. The USA has been sticking it's noses in foreign affairs for the last 100 years or so, doing what's convenient for THEM not exactly the world. Since they control the International Monetary Fund and the UN, they can do whatever they want. Hell, they've invaded my country a shitload of times, and though most of you may not know it, they're currently thinking about setting up a military base here........ not a little one......... a shit load of soldiers
look....... i'm as close to being 100 american.... but i don't support this war. It's just pointless. Germany and france can do whatever they want, because they are an independent nation, and nothing illegal has been done. if they don't want to support the bloody war, then they don't. Don't go telling them to f*ck off because they were granted freedom of speech. That's just plain ridiculous

[zeleni jurèek]

Originally posted by PopA
i just have to comment on this thread

alright alright. maybe france and germany didn't support the USA. Big deal. The USA got the support of 8 countries, and even though France and Germany are powerful, Dubya couldn't care less about their opinions. The guy's a nitwit. Now ronnie and zul, don't get me wrong, i'm a US resident, my mom grew up in NY and my dad studied there. I've been going to the USA about 3 months out of each year of my life. I was there on election day 2000. I never liked Bush, he's a farmer and an idiot. He thinks that going around and bugging sadam is going to help people permanently forget about bin laden.
there was even a poll in europe about who people considered to be the biggest threat to world peace (this poll was taken the morning after his speech this week). 84% said Bush, 8% Saddam and 7% N. Korea, with a 1% undecided!
forget nationalism for a second, and stop to think about it. The USA has been sticking it's noses in foreign affairs for the last 100 years or so, doing what's convenient for THEM not exactly the world. Since they control the International Monetary Fund and the UN, they can do whatever they want. Hell, they've invaded my country a shitload of times, and though most of you may not know it, they're currently thinking about setting up a military base here........ not a little one......... a shit load of soldiers
look....... i'm as close to being 100 american.... but i don't support this war. It's just pointless. Germany and france can do whatever they want, because they are an independent nation, and nothing illegal has been done. if they don't want to support the bloody war, then they don't. Don't go telling them to f*ck off because they were granted freedom of speech. That's just plain ridiculous

Simple and right!

Raygun, can you comprehend this?

[Moon-Star]

is a new cold war possible in future?germany and france create dangerous steps.
cant stand them ,they both were againts world peace.never support their ideologies.

[OAnimal]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
Before you or anyone goes and praises the poor French and Germans, you should consider a few points. Their governments are more concerned with their political futures than anything else. Current contracts to drill in Iraq for oil are largely tied up by the French firm Elf. Finally, they're more concerned with keeping their heads above water in terms of world influence than they are about the people of Iraq. Whether their stance is wrong or not, I won't comment. However, their motives should be scrutinized.
Before you question French and German motives, why don't you question the US motives? Does USA have any interest in Iraq other than Saddam? So why, is their motive justified, while French and German is not? And please, I trust French and German government much more than I trust Texas ranger Bush.

[OAnimal]

Originally posted by Moon-Star
is a new cold war possible in future?germany and france create dangerous steps.
cant stand them ,they both were againts world peace.never support their ideologies.
Can you explain, when France and Germany were against world peace?

[Sebi]

Originally posted by OAnimal
Can you explain, when France and Germany were against world peace?
that`s also what i want to know...

[funky6]

Originally posted by PopA

forget nationalism for a second, and stop to think about it. The USA has been sticking it's noses in foreign affairs for the last 100 years or so, doing what's convenient for THEM not exactly the world. Since they control the International Monetary Fund and the UN, they can do whatever they want. Hell, they've invaded my country a shitload of times, and though most of you may not know it, they're currently thinking about setting up a military base here........ not a little one......... a shit load of soldiers

It's obvious modern Americans know sh*t about the military actions all over the world done from their governments the last 100 years.Who knows about the 1967 incidents in Greece combined with Cypru's bondage since now?Just a few know abt awful greeks N17 killing "innocent'' american militaries and CIA agents.(they're arrested,i hate them as much as the pigs they killed).Nobody cares about what their governments have done to Nikaragua,Panama,Hondoura,Taite,Cuba,Mexico,Wouatemala,Iran,Uruguay,Philliphines,Puerto Rico,Korea,Egypt,Lebanon,Chile,Angolla,Indonesia,El Salvador..i can go on for ever and these are included in official catalogues that have been published.I don't blame American ppl though they should search a little more,it's natural to love your country but there are crimes here that even God would be scared of

Germans and French motives are not so innocent too,since a war there won't be good for them and their investments in the area but cannot be compared with Americans for Christ's sake.

PS:Guys no need to bother with anything someone throws in and goes,c'mon Moonstar what you say is ridiculous.:)

[PopA]

ey ey funky that was my post..... don't go giving oanimal credit for it:D

well anyways, even if germany and france's motives aren't so innocent, they're better than the good ol' US of A!

"dubya, texas ranger" - maybe he should get his own tv series!

[funky6]

What are you saying man?I know it was yours where did you see OAnimal's nick?:o:D

[PopA]

eh heheheheh

roma won in the coppa italia!
just two more derbys to go

[Moon-Star]

Originally posted by OAnimal
Can you explain, when France and Germany were against world peace?

well,if u dont know,couldnt learn yet,i sould not talk about anymore........but only one sentence.they both had supported terrorism obviously,and they may be still continuing .

well,funky,the thing (ridiculous)you have said is not related my message.it must be about ur message....
with saying as much as pigs they have killed while you were talkinmg about greek terror ''17 NOWEMBBER''

firstly, you are a pig(i wouldnt want to say it but you forced me to it).17 nowember greek terrorists have also killed Turkish diplomats beside american and english people.

and they have never done anything.you cant call them as pig.
you can be angry at cia agents and mý-5 agents(i also cant stand them) if they were trying to do something bad againts your country and you can be right on cia and mý-5 agents.and you can also call them pig.
but dont forget there were Turkish diplomats also who didnt do anything belonging in people who were killed.

[OAnimal]

Originally posted by Moon-Star
well,if u dont know,couldnt learn yet,i sould not talk about anymore........but only one sentence.they both had supported terrorism obviously,and they may be still continuing .

Are you sure you don't mix them with Afganistan?

[FloZi]

I was sent herre for a good debate on this issue, so here I am.

The thing I am kind of upset about is that people here generalize about nations and their opinions. For instance I am a German who definetely does NOT agree with Chancellor Schroeder's Iraq policy, I concur with the opposition parties, that if the UN-security council sanctions a military intervention then everyone should help the USA, and as a recent Gallup-Europe poll shows 48% of germans agree with my opinion. Schroeder made a conscious campaign choice in saying no to any intervention in Iraq and won the general election on that topic because the opposition was caught off guard and didn't have clear cut answers. I think that going into Iraq with a UN mandate is justified, because no matter how you put it Sadam Husssein is a villain, a mass murderer and a threat to world peace, simply because he has these waepons of mass destruction (everyone who doesn't see that seems to be blinded by anti-american bias) and what he does with them is not controllable. The problem with the discussion is that no matter how you discuss opposition to the US-position you always strengthen Sadadm's stance (one of the few things I agree on with Mr. Rumsfeld, whose "old Europe" and "putting Libya, Cuba and Germany on the same level" commentaries really make the situation no better) and that is something France's and Germany's leaders (I am consciously making that distinction) keep forgetting. I think when Saddam looks at the discussions and arguments between parts of Europe and the USA he's just laughing his ass off.
Of course, I see that oil is a major factor and the internal security of all Western nations is endangered if (or better when) war breaks out, but sometimes you have to make tough choices and war is certainly one of the toughest.

P.S.: I just quickly want to put the numbers of the Gallup-poll down here. the first is the percentage of people against war without a UN-Mandate the second one is people against war even with UN-mandate:

Portugal: 72/36 (with a pro-war government)
Spain: 77/43 (with a pro-war government)
France: 86/29 (with a government leading towards anti-war)
Italy: 79/33 (with a pro-war government)
Greece: 86/71 (with a government leading towards anti-war)
Luxembourg: 81/34 (with a government leading towards anti-war)
Belgium: 78/40(with a government leading towards anti-war)
Netherlands: 80/29 (with a pro-war government)
Great Britain: 68/15 (with a pro-war government)
Ireland: 77/42 (with an undecided government)
Norway: 87/34 (with an undecided government)
Sweden: 81/53 (with a government leading towards anti-war)
Finland: 78/66 (with an undecided government)
Denmark: 79/26 (with a pro-war government)
Poland: 63/42 (with a pro-war government)
Czech Republic: 71/56 (with a pro-war government)
Hungary: 71/56 (with a pro-war government)
Austria: 85/73 (with an undecided government)
Germany: 87/52 (with an anti-war government)

[kežman]

Here you see a "typical" american who is influenced by the propaganda his government does.

The US - the land who kills for "freedom" - they mean their capitalistic freedom of getting new ressources anyway ...

Why do you everytime think the USA is the "good"?

When they would be the "good", they would not have nuclear bombs...

When they would be the "good", they would not killed people all over the world - even in their own country...

...hun, by the way - wasn't it the US Government who gave Saddam Hussein his weapons to fight against Ayetola Kumenyi? (don't know how to spell that name right)

Wasn't it the US Government who gave weapons to Osama Bin Laden to fight against the "bad" russian in Afghanistan?

Isn't it the US Army who leaves the countries destroyed - and the EU has to build them up again (Kosovo e.g.)

Killing in the name of money and oil...

... 11/9 was a sign - and those craps got it wrong...

Now you see, why the US isn't that popular...

...war without a face...

[funky6]

Originally posted by Moonstar

well,funky,the thing (ridiculous)you have said is not related my message.it must be about ur message....
with saying as much as pigs they have killed while you were talkinmg about greek terror ''17 NOWEMBBER''

firstly, you are a pig(i wouldnt want to say it but you forced me to it).17 nowember greek terrorists have also killed Turkish diplomats beside american and english people.

and they have never done anything.you cant call them as pig.
you can be angry at cia agents and mý-5 agents(i also cant stand them) if they were trying to do something bad againts your country and you can be right on cia and mý-5 agents.and you can also call them pig.
but dont forget there were Turkish diplomats also who didnt do anything belonging in people who were killed.

I'm not going to bother with you much dumbass cause it's obvious nationalism has smashed your brains.Just this

So after knowing great history you prove me you know all about diplomacy,inside CIA and International politics information and many things about what's going on in Greece that even Greeks who dealt with this group for 30 years didn't know.I guess you are also an astronaut,old friend of JFK,veteran Vietnal soldier and a badmindon player in your free time.

You are the answer to the world's problems.Forrest Gump would feel envy.

You know shit abt what these agents have been doing(for example Saunders who had a major part in killings in Yugoslavia) nor abt the Turks that were killed.How do you define innocence?Still noone has the right to take life,playing in the game big guys want(with guns) and pretending to be a fighter/left wing(fighter my ass).

I said i hate these guys in case you didn't see as every Greek citizen genious.Still you attack me like i'm a member of this group.

I can't believe i'm actually writing all this to a Turk to prove what?!

Look man,when you manage to deal with Grey Wolves or how the hell you call them,put stratocracy aside,ban white cells and apologize for the 2 Cypriots killed a few years ago come and talk to me abt Greece.

Guys like you can turn even guys like me to disgusting patriots.I haven't foughted for these things except with you in my life if this tells you smthing.

I put this pig thing aside cause what you see is the good me.

Cheerz

[funky6]

BTW they also killed many GREEK businessmen and politicians in case you didn't know.


Cheerz again

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Sebi
that`s also what i want to know...

I can tell you when Germany was, lest you've forgotten.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by funky6


Germans and French motives are not so innocent too,since a war there won't be good for them and their investments in the area but cannot be compared with Americans for Christ's sake.



Sure as hell can be compared with the Americans. As for the American people "searching a little more", maybe you should try that yourself. Besides, it's not like Greece is a country with clear conscience.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by FloZi
I was sent herre for a good debate on this issue, so here I am.

The thing I am kind of upset about is that people here generalize about nations and their opinions. For instance I am a German who definetely does NOT agree with Chancellor Schroeder's Iraq policy, I concur with the opposition parties, that if the UN-security council sanctions a military intervention then everyone should help the USA, and as a recent Gallup-Europe poll shows 48% of germans agree with my opinion. Schroeder made a conscious campaign choice in saying no to any intervention in Iraq and won the general election on that topic because the opposition was caught off guard and didn't have clear cut answers. I think that going into Iraq with a UN mandate is justified, because no matter how you put it Sadam Husssein is a villain, a mass murderer and a threat to world peace, simply because he has these waepons of mass destruction (everyone who doesn't see that seems to be blinded by anti-american bias) and what he does with them is not controllable. The problem with the discussion is that no matter how you discuss opposition to the US-position you always strengthen Sadadm's stance (one of the few things I agree on with Mr. Rumsfeld, whose "old Europe" and "putting Libya, Cuba and Germany on the same level" commentaries really make the situation no better) and that is something France's and Germany's leaders (I am consciously making that distinction) keep forgetting. I think when Saddam looks at the discussions and arguments between parts of Europe and the USA he's just laughing his ass off.
Of course, I see that oil is a major factor and the internal security of all Western nations is endangered if (or better when) war breaks out, but sometimes you have to make tough choices and war is certainly one of the toughest.

P.S.: I just quickly want to put the numbers of the Gallup-poll down here. the first is the percentage of people against war without a UN-Mandate the second one is people against war even with UN-mandate:

Portugal: 72/36 (with a pro-war government)
Spain: 77/43 (with a pro-war government)
France: 86/29 (with a government leading towards anti-war)
Italy: 79/33 (with a pro-war government)
Greece: 86/71 (with a government leading towards anti-war)
Luxembourg: 81/34 (with a government leading towards anti-war)
Belgium: 78/40(with a government leading towards anti-war)
Netherlands: 80/29 (with a pro-war government)
Great Britain: 68/15 (with a pro-war government)
Ireland: 77/42 (with an undecided government)
Norway: 87/34 (with an undecided government)
Sweden: 81/53 (with a government leading towards anti-war)
Finland: 78/66 (with an undecided government)
Denmark: 79/26 (with a pro-war government)
Poland: 63/42 (with a pro-war government)
Czech Republic: 71/56 (with a pro-war government)
Hungary: 71/56 (with a pro-war government)
Austria: 85/73 (with an undecided government)
Germany: 87/52 (with an anti-war government)

Well said.

[Severus]

Originally posted by OAnimal
Before you question French and German motives, why don't you question the US motives? Does USA have any interest in Iraq other than Saddam? So why, is their motive justified, while French and German is not? And please, I trust French and German government much more than I trust Texas ranger Bush.

and what's the difference oh wise one please enlighten us ???????

it's all about oil in the end for all 3. especially france. what is it, their second largest corporation that has those very strong interests in iraq's oil supply not to mention all the others. they're eventually gonna sway over make no mistake about it, they just want to force the US to give them a bigger piece of the pie and with all this posturing and feet dragging, they'll probably get it too. in the end, it's all about money and power for EVERY country and anyone who thinks otherwise is just simply naive.

and it's usually the ones that don't have anything that are the ones that are jealous and resentful towards the ones that do. (ie) USA

so spare me your nonsense.

[OAnimal]

Originally posted by Severus

so spare me your nonsense.
Who said you have to read it?

and you spare me your "if you do not agree with me, you are an idiot" attitude.

[Moon-Star]

Originally posted by funky6
it's obvious nationalism has smashed your brains.Just this


what is this,dude?what the hell are u trying to do?i didnt write in a provaked,offenced mood.more importantly;
we are taught,love your country,love people,work for a better world.also in religion and morality knowledge lessons we learn the holy religions,all the beliefs,and all the things about life ,spirit COMPREHENSIVELY. what are u talking about?dont mix us with yourself.nationalizm!are u sure who does this here,me or you?

as i said before i can understand if 17N people is angry at foreign agents (but not killing them) and you can hate them.
i have just warned you because there were also Turkish diplomats who were inside killed people while they didnt don anything.i just wanted you cant call as pig all them.they were just working there as how a tanzanian diplomat work,how a costarican diplomat work,how a spanish diplomat work.
the TASK of diplomats is making better the relationships between his contry and the conutry they work in.and you know this very well.
but,according to that terorist,the crime of turkish diplomats was being A TURK.
how faschsizm!huh!

APOLIGIZE!l gasped in amezement that you know this word.
2 people absolutely attacked to Turkish side,passed the fences although all warnings ''keep away''
why dont you mention that what have they done....
they climbed to pole where Turkiye flag waves.what were you going to do with that flag you thing in other side?
huh!
everybody knows 1960s BLOODBATH which was done by greeks to make an ethnic cleaning of TURKS from the island.over 1000
Turks werekilled.with one word ''barbarism''
who has to say apoligize ?who?
i have never wanted to talk about greece.

but you commented my post to be ridiculous and you thought you can easily scribble my country.
what is more,what attack you mention?
when did i attacked u?
ha i forgot its your tactic.you attack and in same thread you show as you were attacked to show others you were right

Originally posted by OAnimal
Are you sure you don't mix them with Afganistan?

unfortunately,i am %100 sure.:(
apperently you dont know what we have lived my friend.
i can say Turkiye is the country who was attacked by terror most.
who suffered from teror most.:(
listen,i am going to make a litle summarise of 25 years.
when we came to 1970s,we lost some part of our strenght.
then an armenian terror was cretaed to behefit from this situation.it was ASALA who lived 10 years and killed nearly 800 Turks.the dead people are mostly diplomats .the center of this teror was PARIS...:mad:they were starting their teror from PARIS.
they even made teror in ANKARA(THE CAPITAL CITY OF TURKIYE).
at the airport they caused the dying of 9 people.then we could getover it.

but the most dangerous teror was created in 84.it is PKK which was created by so many countries to divide Turkiye,for falling Turkiye.
at the starting they were just a group of norther iraq people.
but so many european countries also plus syria and iran have freed them,have trained them,have given weapons.have provaked them.
there were moments that they succesed fighting of brother to brother.
15 years with full of suffer.15 years full with of suffer15 years with full of suffer.plus hundreds billions dollars.dividing Turkiye,blasting the Republic of Turkiye.
i have lived it.AND A MORON COMES AND SAYS DONT BE RIDUCULOUS.
yes as i said before france and germany also supported them.
but i dont have anyhting againts them right now infact i have many rights to be.but if i do like that how can we live in peacefully.i also know that .there also absolutely cool people fo them.
but their governments did a shit action.just bullshit.

listen my friend,they also wanted to destroy all turks in anadolu after 1.world war.they still want us to be very weak,to be very poor.if it is possible they will attack us with atom bombs,i guess.

haa,if u ask how many people died from that terror:

27.000 people (9 týmes more than 11 september disaster)
15 YEARS (11 september disaster took 1 day)

we caught the leader of terorism group,the killer of 27.000 people
with USA help after 15 years in kenya WHILE HE WAS TAKING SHELTER IN GREEK AMBASSY .we have found A GREEK PASSPORT ON HIM.

[Moon-Star]

BTW,
there are some statues in greece whose index finger show Turkiye.
winning a basketball match for a greek team againts a Turk team is shown as winning a national war by media.
and if we think that how media is effective on peoples vision in todays world ,we can see the perilous of the situation.
before pao-fener match,in athina,some greek distributed HANDBILLS;
''The Best Turk IS Dead Turk''

and THE WORST PROPAGANDA ever has started when our economi get falled.:(
some missionaries of orthodox churches in Turkiye visits poor villages.yes nothing wrong whit this.
but they benefit from peoples mood and try to change the religion of them with MONEY... :shocked:
they visit every house and distribute the holy book''bible'' with money inside it :shocked: the worse,they inculcate crapply that they were not Turks actually.

benefitting peoples moods to change their religion with money to have a result of asimilating their
RACE.

i cant find any word to say.i comment this another effort of destroying Turks...what can people comment this?
but we faced the worse things before and i am not afraid.
i surely know after seeing we overcomed worse things that Republic of Modern Turkiye will live till the last moment of world!
BTW,who has been smahed by nationalizm ?

[funky6]

Moonstar i 'm bored even by seeing your mega posts.I know your opinions well we have been dealing with these things for centuries each other as countries so i'm aware of the shit you're writing and don't have to read it.

Cheerz.

Azul-->It definitely wasn't for you but it seems you got it that way.None of my business though,i hope you realize that action causes reaction.Happy to know my opinions are shared with millions in the world,in Europe but in America too.

Thanx for the tip,i always search before talking,you are the lastto judge consiences you know.Especially when they are clear.

(A comment by what was said above-from PopA but me too- would be nice but then to say what?Expected.Cutting someone's words into pieces and answering whatever you want isn't the best thing)

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by funky6


Azul-->It definitely wasn't for you but it seems you got it that way.None of my business though,i hope you realize that action causes reaction.Happy to know my opinions are shared with millions in the world,in Europe but in America too.



I know you werent' talking to me, but you were slagging my country. I'm not going to sit idly by whilst people slag the US and offer little if any evidence or good reason to.

As for you opinion being shared all over the world, what of it? I could care less. My opinion is shared widely as well. Just because an opinion is shared by many, doesn't mean it's remotely right. Ronaldo was voted player of the year by a large margin, but was that the right decision? Hell no.

[funky6]

The only thing i'm slagging here is governments and politicians .I'm into american music(look at my avatar),directors,artists,civilization,etc since the day i can remember myself as many in ther world.

It's which America you choose to stand by,the Dead Kennedys/be-bop/Lincoln battalion/John Reed/Whitman/beat generation/ most humanist constitution on the world(i can go on for ages) one or the Kissinger/G.W.Bush/Walt Disney/Reagan etc one.

I don't blame you though,i think i might had the same opinions(Greek-Americans mostly do) if i were an American too,which is a hard thing today feeling a big negative feedback.But it mostly has a basis,something that you can't many times understand or know excactly why.

[Severus]

Originally posted by OAnimal
Who said you have to read it?

and you spare me your "if you do not agree with me, you are an idiot" attitude.

it's not a matter of agree with me or you're stupid. it's a question of knowledge and objectivity. 2 things you lack severely.

[Moon-Star]

ronnie raygun has made a good topic.
he also said ***K germany and france.and i wrote my comment.without ANY SWEAR AS WELL.
i wrote they both are againts world peace.because the countries who sopport terorism is accepted that they were againts peace.CORRECT?and you called me ridiculous,funky:mad:

i wouldnt want to talk the suffer we experienced.but this word''ridiculous''
was sharper than A SWORD!
i also saw that some people dont know the terorism we fighted.
how can they dont know it? :(:mad: it took 15 years:mad:
i wouldnt want to talk about very past.........but you started it funky!
THERE is a fact that we will live forever.so we want to live happily,
we want to be a more lovely neighbour.
but supporting terorism againts Turkiye will not give harm only Turkiye.:mad:a weak Turkiye cant help to stop problems in balkans or in middle -east.dont forget this.
and dont forget funky,
Turkiye helped 100.000s europeans during secon world war :smoking: and we gave most help to you.because you were very close and
after 2.world war there was also a civil war in greece.so 10.0000s
greeks lived in Turkiye during the wars.
dont forget this.

i understood why you are bored,FUNKY.why you are bored...:silly:
because i heard that %99 of manhood is to escape when you are are really going to lose.

[FloZi]

Originally posted by Moon-Star
ronnie raygun has made a good topic.
he also said ***K germany and france.and i wrote my comment.without ANY SWEAR AS WELL.
i wrote they both are againts world peace.because the countries who sopport terorism is accepted that they were againts peace.CORRECT?and you called me ridiculous,funky:mad:


How is it that Germany and France support terrorism??
By not wanting to go to Iraq and blow Saddams brains out?
By having people living inside their borders that commit terrorist acts?
By what?
I think it's that notion that two of the world's leading nations, support terrorism is far fetched, because the USA over the course of history has supported quasi-terrorist activities far more often than France and Germany combined.

[Ronnie Raygun]

FloZI,

I very much appreciated your first post and I very much agreed however, you could NEVER equate the atrocities that Germany has commited with the U.S.

Your country started 2 World Wars and murdered 6 million jews as well as millions more on battle fields around the world.

The French? We had to bail out twice.

Now I know you as a person are not responsible, but their is no comparison between Germany/France and the U.S.

[FloZi]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
FloZI,

I very much appreciated your first post and I very much agreed however, you could NEVER equate the atrocities that Germany has commited with the U.S.

Your country started 2 World Wars and murdered 6 million jews as well as millions more on battle fields around the world.

The French? We had to bail out twice.

Now I know you as a person are not responsible, but their is no comparison between Germany/France and the U.S.

I think, my point was not quite clear, with quasi-terrorist activities I meant undercover funding for opposition groups in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Nicaragua. Something that is not deniable and stands (at least in German history/political science/American Studies teaching) as historical fact. Neither Germany nor France has done that on such a large scale over the course of the last 50 years.
I didn't mean that the overall atrocities commited by Germany were inferior to American atrocities. To state that is not just, because a large scale, systematic annihalition of an entire religious group has never been commited in such magnitude and can simply not be purged or compared.
I was just flabbergasted to hear someone accuse Germany and France of supporting terrorism, without explaining what was meant and wanted to make clear that if you do that, than you must not forget US actions in the past, because they also can also be put in the category of supporting terrorism.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Well, if you want to compliment us on funding opposition groups to win the Cold War I'll take it as a compliment.

Thankyou for showing us a different perspective.

When Clinton was in power, I myself quite often disagreed with his policies. I'll try to stop stereotyping individuals.

[barça]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
I very much appreciated your first post and I very much agreed

Ronnie actually appreciated and agreed to a post.

Check hell, I think it froze:shocked:

[funky6]

.

[Moon-Star]

Originally posted by FloZi
How is it that Germany and France support terrorism??


they have suppoprted the ***king divider teror pkk which caused 27.000 dead people and 100s billions dollars of Turkiye.caused
the aim of teror was blasting the republic of Turkiye......
it took 15 years for fighting and this teror was supported by many euroýpean countries.plus iran and syria.:mad:
15 years?????it is obvious how this teror grup was supported....

you got it know?

[FloZi]

Originally posted by Moon-Star
they have suppoprted the ***king divider teror pkk which caused 27.000 dead people and 100s billions dollars of Turkiye.caused
the aim of teror was blasting the republic of Turkiye......
it took 15 years for fighting and this teror was supported by many euroýpean countries.plus iran and syria.:mad:
15 years?????it is obvious how this teror grup was supported....

you got it know?

no, i don't quite get it. Because I doubt the governments of these countries actively supported the PKK, I know that some "humnaitarian" groups from these countires have supported the "cause" of the Kurds, but not the governemt (why do you think the PKK is illegal in Germany).

[Moon-Star]

first of all,my friend,pkk was created by european countries to fall Turkiye.they used northern ýraq and syria kurds firstly.then they even provaked some people here.brother to brotherthey have provaked.and governments obviosly supported it..OBVýIOUSLY!
everybody hates this teror.and this terrorist even kill each other when one of them doesnt like the other.

inaddition,with saying the cause of kurds they show how bulshit they are.BECAUSE WE HAD LIVED TOGETHER FOR CENTURIES IN PEACE,HAPPILLY.
WE HAD FIGHTED TOGETHER IN INDEPENDENCE WAR AGAINST GREECE,ENGLAND,FRANCE,ARMENIA AFTER 1.WORLD WAR.

SEMDÝN SAKIK who is the second man of pkk,a confesser,declared that they had been given 50 STINGER ROCKETS by Greece free in charge!!!!!!!
then they sold half of them to iran and get much money.,he said.
with this money they improved their drug bazaar in middle east he confesses.he said that he couldnt use 25 STINGER ROCKETS ON TURKIYE.BECAUSE the terror was ***ked.

now i ask u,can u imagine what could they do with that 25 STINGER ROCKETS on my country?
pkk was keeping the control of middle east drug bazaar and was supported by so many countries.
thsts why it took 15 years to fight them.

AND PKK BECAME ILLEGAL IN GERMANYIN THE LAST YEARS OF THEIR TEROR,WHEN THEY ATTACKED A GERMAN POLICE CAR IN GERMANY.

[Moon-Star]

LATEST NEWS!!!

THE HISTORICAL CRIS IN NATO....

France,germany and belgium said NO in Nato about the defending of Turkiye in a war with patriot systems.

in nato rules,when there is a thead againts a member of nato,all countries have to help because it is accepted it is againts nato.

washington says the main target is not Turkiye ,the main target is usa.
a very important man of pentagon said that the strenght of france in nato should be lower.
Rumsfeld said that he didnt see the future of nato well.

NATO GENRAL SECRATER,george robertson:''We are facing with a very serious situation!!!''
Turkiye was the most important country during cold war againts soviets because of its jeopolitic situations.
Turkiye saved the east europe againts any dangers.

yes,as u seen'' the huge gratefulness by france and germany''

AFGHANISTAN!!!

Turkiye let the control of ISAF to germany and holland yesterday.
Turkiye took the ISAF control for last 8 mouths.it was the most important and dangerous term of new afghanistan.
Hamid Karzai said the leader of Turkiye militry troops,zorlu,has overcomed the things as his name(zor means difficult in Turkish)
Holland Security Minister,Henk Kamp said:'' We really admire what Turk Soldiers did''

Turkiye was the leader of 22 countries over there while controlling ISAF.

ISAF DURING TURK CONTROL HAS CLEANED AFGHANISTAN FROM: 3.000.000 MILS

3.000.000 MILS=3.000.000 SAVED LIVES! isee like that.

i am proud of them:smoking:

P.S:anyone is free to call me nationilist because of prouding them for saving 3.000.000 lives. i really will not give any damn that person.

[Moon-Star]

the prime minister of Turkiye,abdullah gul has made an offer to saddam to stop the war.........

Abdullah Gul told saddam to leave the leadership of iraq.and he added,''Turkiye is ready to guest u,you will be in safe here,please leave it for the future of iraq people''

Abdullah Gul has already visited 6 middle east countries for the aim of ACTIVE PEACE DIPLOMACY on iraq.
what is more,a historical meeting was organized in istanbul,Turkiye.the foreign ministers of middle east regions have meet in istanbul for peace.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Don't worry. The U.S. will help defend Turkey even if Germany and France don't want to.

[barça]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
Don't worry. The U.S. will help defend Turkey even if Germany and France don't want to.

Well of course, if the USA does not defend them, then Turkey won't let them use their bases.

Thats why I like you Ronnie, you bring such wisdom to the discussions.:rolleyes:

[Ronnie Raygun]

The U.S. won't defend Turkey, NATO will.

U.S. ...... NATO.

See the difference. One starts with the letter N.

[barça]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
The U.S. won't defend Turkey, NATO will.

U.S. ...... NATO.

See the difference. One starts with the letter N.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that besides wisdom, you know how to spell U.S. and NATO. More reasons to like you.:shocked:

[FloZi]

Originally posted by Moon-Star
first of all,my friend,pkk was created by european countries to fall Turkiye.they used northern ýraq and syria kurds firstly.then they even provaked some people here.brother to brotherthey have provaked.and governments obviosly supported it..OBVýIOUSLY!
everybody hates this teror.and this terrorist even kill each other when one of them doesnt like the other.

inaddition,with saying the cause of kurds they show how bulshit they are.BECAUSE WE HAD LIVED TOGETHER FOR CENTURIES IN PEACE,HAPPILLY.
WE HAD FIGHTED TOGETHER IN INDEPENDENCE WAR AGAINST GREECE,ENGLAND,FRANCE,ARMENIA AFTER 1.WORLD WAR.

SEMDÝN SAKIK who is the second man of pkk,a confesser,declared that they had been given 50 STINGER ROCKETS by Greece free in charge!!!!!!!
then they sold half of them to iran and get much money.,he said.
with this money they improved their drug bazaar in middle east he confesses.he said that he couldnt use 25 STINGER ROCKETS ON TURKIYE.BECAUSE the terror was ***ked.

now i ask u,can u imagine what could they do with that 25 STINGER ROCKETS on my country?
pkk was keeping the control of middle east drug bazaar and was supported by so many countries.
thsts why it took 15 years to fight them.

AND PKK BECAME ILLEGAL IN GERMANYIN THE LAST YEARS OF THEIR TEROR,WHEN THEY ATTACKED A GERMAN POLICE CAR IN GERMANY.

Obviously as someone more directly affected, I will simply believe you and say: I was wrong, you were right. However, (with me there's always an however :-D) than probably nearly all governments could be considered supporting terrorism, couldn't they?


About the refusal to call planning sessions, that's just reckless, negligent behaviour. Now you got the chance to plan ahead and think about options, later, once there is war (or god forbid an attack on turkey) it's too late to strategise.

[funky6]

Mon star,man you're the biggest brain damaged person i've ever seen in my life.

There's life and history sources other than the shit you're being fed with in Turkey,follow some compatriots of yours,open your mind and read something else to have an extra opinion.

What independance waR YOU'VE FOUGHT AGAINST ARMENIANS YOU IDIOT?!You 've slaughtered more than one and a half millions of them and no country official recognizes it ok?Just leave Greece out of the shit you're saying,you 've been a slaughter in the area for centuries.Greece,Cyprus,Balkan countries,Kurds,Armenians all have nice memories of Turkey after the 15th century you got that?

I wouldn't have such a loud mouth if i were you you know.

[PopA]

i don't understand half the shit moon - star is talking about!

and i thought this discussion was about the USA, france and germany

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by barça
Well of course, if the USA does not defend them, then Turkey won't let them use their bases.



Regardless of us getting access to Turkey's bases, we'd defend them anyway.

Regardless of the justness of a war in Iraq or any other arguement, I'd just like to say how appreciative I am of Turkey as an ally of the United States. I know you're country is in a very difficult position, and regardless of the stance you take I will always appreciate the relationship our governments have had.

As for France, Germany and Belgium, you may as well leave NATO. Right now! Regardless of their governments stances on the Iraq situation, they should be supporting Turkey as an ally. All Turkey is asking for is defensive support. Gerhard is really putting Germany in a tough position these days.

[FloZi]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
Gerhard is really putting Germany in a tough position these days.

That's why opposition leader Angela Merkel said along with some other politicians that he had to go by all democratic means.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by FloZi
That's why opposition leader Angela Merkel said along with some other politicians that he had to go by all democratic means.

I heard an inteview with a CDU official the other night. He was very critical of Schroeder. I wonder if Germany's stance would be different if the CDU were in charge, or if they're just being political here.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Hell yes it would be different.

The fact is, Germany owes us. They should do the right thing and stop playing politics....Schroder that is.

[FloZi]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
I heard an inteview with a CDU official the other night. He was very critical of Schroeder. I wonder if Germany's stance would be different if the CDU were in charge, or if they're just being political here.

I'm in the CSU (sort of the Bavarian version of the CDU) and I can assure you, our stance would be (and as a matter of fact is): "War is a bad thing, but if it's necessary and with UN mandate we'd see it as okay!" Schroder using it in the campaign caught us off guard, we didn't expect it to be a topic and suddenly all the media pretended war was around the corner and Schroder used that fear to win an already lost election.

@Ronnie: The problem for Schroder is, he can't go back. He's backed himself into a dead end alleyway. If does what is in my eyes the right thing and okays a strike against Iraq with a UN mandate, he faces hell from us as opposition for being a pushover and from within the party for giving up principles. Either way I think he's doomed. As Angela Merkel said correctly today, he is the Chancellor with the most unhistoric(al) foreign policy. The way you put it is blunt, Ronnie, but right, we as a nation owe the US for making us the country we are.

[soccer fanatic]

Originally posted by FloZi
we as a nation owe the US for making us the country we are.

You owe respect for what they did for Germany and Europe, but you don`t owe them too give up your own identity and follow them blindly too pay them back.

I know it is expected everybody chooses one line, but this is too important too just bind in and loose your own believes.

[Moon-Star]

LOOK WHO IS TALKING;FUNKY!!! LOL:D
the funky comedy hits again:D

you are just an idiont no knowing independence war.
after 1.world war,havent the winners shared my country,AND SAID ''WE ARE GOING TO CLEAN ANADOLU FROM MUSLIMS'' ?HA.
dont u know what happened after 1.world war?if so you are an ***king moron!

ÝDÝOT.:mad:

by talking balcans,
ottoman empire allowed peoples religion free
ottoman empire allowed everyones own languages free.(the own lanuage is the heart of a nation!)
ottoman empire allowed everyone to do his business.

what shit are u talking about?YOU WERE SMAsHED FUNKY,NOT ME!you are a ***kýng LIAR.....

do u know artiz bezciyan?do u know AGOP PASA?they are armenians.the armenians, one of them became a MINISTER IN OTTOMAN GOVERNMENT.and the other was one of most important helper of OTTOMAN SULTAN ýn 1800s.

do u know them,idiot!hehe as i
said before i have heard that &99 of manhood is to escape when you are going to lose.


850 Turk soldiers have died in korea war for the future of korea IN NATO TASK!!!!!!!!!
HAVE U WATCHED WC?WHY DO U THINK SOUTH KOREANS CHEERED FOR TURKIYE AS THEIR NATIONAL TEAM AS?

Greece have given pkk 50 stinger rockets in free OF charge.it
is correect!!!

I CAN TAKE AN OATH ABOUT THE truth ABOUT 50 STÝNGER ROCKETS and other things I HAVE SAID WHÝLE PUTTING MY RIGHT HAND ON QURAN!!!
CAN U DO THE SAME WHILE PUTTING YOUR RIGHT HAND OTHER HOLY BOOK BIBLE?

yeah,it is very obvious,it is very obvios that you were smashed,funky.last time you were saying you were bored and now you are going on bullshits.yeah yYOUUU are totaly free to think about me or my nation or my country what is more you can make a plan to attack Turkiye with AN ATOM BOMB.and search famous scientist.
as i said i dont give any damn.
but writing bullshit here make me so nervous!!:mad:

azulgruna,

Turkiye has rights in NATO so wanted it.because when there was a thead againts another country,Turkiye was there for help.

they are the rules my friend.THE INTERNATIONAL LAW!
what is more if there is no halp,Turkiye doesnt need anyone for self-defencing.
no need,we have the one of the strongest army.

but i have some very important feelings of UNEASE about the future of NATO....

FRANCE AND GERMANY DID THE SAME IN DECEMBER.did u know that,my friend?
about the decision of EUROPEAN UNION MEMBERSHIP OF TURKIYE.

according to diplomatic sources,one of the most important reason why Turkiye wasnt given a definite date is USA.
FRANCE AND GERMANY DÝPLOMATS DECLARED THAT how can america put presure,this is EUROPEAN UNION.

[Moon-Star]

btw,today 3.600.000 Turks live in EU countries.
and according to statics they made an additive of 70BILLIONS EUROS to countries economy they live in FOR JUST THE YEAR OF 2002.

2.500.000 of them live in germany.PAY ATTENTÝON!

they moved that countries from Turkiye after 2.world war.
because after 2.world war,the man population of euro for JOB POWER was very low.
so for re-creating the countries thousands of Turks were on ways.
these countries welcomed Turks with Turk Music,flowers and no passports.

but when we reached 80s.they showed their real face.
the attacks againts foreigner have started.

10 TURK WERE FIRED LIVELY IN SOLINGEN,GERMANY BY NAZIS
IN 1990S.yes you didnt hear wrong in the years of 90s.


gulf war caused 35BILLIONS DOLLARS OF TURKIYE DIRECTLY.and if we calculate it in a long term ,we see 100BILLIONS DOLARS.
SO for this time,Turkiye must be very careful...
The foreign Minister and The Economy Minister Of Turkiye in Usa RIGHT NOW!!!

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by FloZi
but right, we as a nation owe the US for making us the country we are.

I know the CSU.

I wouldn't say you "owe" us. Like I said before, I don't mind if you're government doesn't agree with us. However, I'd prefer if they were more diplomatic about disagreeing with us rather than slagging us in the press. I expect that behaviour from France, but not from Germany.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by soccer fanatic
You owe respect for what they did for Germany and Europe, but you don`t owe them too give up your own identity and follow them blindly too pay them back.

I know it is expected everybody chooses one line, but this is too important too just bind in and loose your own believes.

And just who is following us blindly?

Of course it is important to have the courage to follow your own convictions.

[soccer fanatic]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
And just who is following us blindly?

Of course it is important to have the courage to follow your own convictions.

That was my point, countries shouldn`t follow other countries blindly.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by soccer fanatic
That was my point, countries shouldn`t follow other countries blindly.

Yeah, but it sounded like you were also saying countries are or have followed us blindly. Were you? If so, who?

[soccer fanatic]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
Yeah, but it sounded like you were also saying countries are or have followed us blindly. Were you? If so, who?

I wasn`t.

If Germany would have changed their minds because they "owe" the USA they would have followed a country blindly and that would be wrong.

I seriously can`t imagine that there is a country in this world stupid enough too just follow another country blindly, even though our own government sometimes make me doubt it.

[FloZi]

Originally posted by soccer fanatic
I wasn`t.

If Germany would have changed their minds because they "owe" the USA they would have followed a country blindly and that would be wrong.

I seriously can`t imagine that there is a country in this world stupid enough too just follow another country blindly, even though our own government sometimes make me doubt it.

I wasn't aiming at that either, I was aiming at the fact that due to historical reasons I think we should behave more diplomatically, no nation should follow blindly, if anybody did that they should - polemically speaking) just give up national sovereignty and join the US. However, I was trying to make the point that, the fact that the US helped rebuild Germany has led to a certain relationship between the countries one of cooperation in light of history, and that is what Schroeder is simply throwing out the door.

I mean tactically speaking, it's most easy for Germany to wiggle out of any military crisis with respect to history. I think most foreign governments would understand if Schroeder said: "We Germans, have a historical mark, we are children burnt by unjust war, without ultimate proof we are going to abstain in the council meeting and will not commit troops." For the simple reason that everyone would respect that decision because our military is not needed.

[soccer fanatic]

Good post here Flozi, but my respons wasn`t directed too you.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by soccer fanatic
I wasn`t.



Just sounded like you were is all.

[Moon-Star]

azul,
usa wanted 2 ports from Turkiye for lojistic supports..one of them is Mersin Port.Mersin(in the south of Turkiye near mediterranean sea)is the city where i live in.so i am able to watch th operation in place.
what is more,i and some friends can make a little protest:D

some people blame my countryunjustly, altghouh it is not definite , for giving bases to Usa againts a fellow country whose people are majority muslims(PAY ATTENTION i didnt say ''muslim country''because countries have no religions PEOPLE have religion.)
i want to clear it up.
it is obvious that %51 there will be a war.so if you dont join in anything,how can you talk after war?
more importantly,GULF WAR caused 35 billions dollors of Turkiye directly.and if we calculate it in a long term we face with a bigh harm;100 billions dolars.the government in 1990 has made big mistakes.
so for this time who thinks the economy of Turkiye?it is obvious that the war gill give harm us.WE want to protect our economy with minumum harm.
worse,there is also an economic cris in Turkiye right now.if we compare today with 1990 we see we are in a worse situation.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by Moon-Star

more importantly,GULF WAR caused 35 billions dollors of Turkiye directly.and if we calculate it in a long term we face with a bigh harm;100 billions dolars.the government in 1990 has made big mistakes.
so for this time who thinks the economy of Turkiye?it is obvious that the war gill give harm us.WE want to protect our economy with minumum harm.
worse,there is also an economic cris in Turkiye right now.if we compare today with 1990 we see we are in a worse situation.

And that's why I'd like to say again that any assistance you give us is much appreciated and will not be forgotten by me personally.

[Moon-Star]

Originally posted by AZULGRANA
And that's why I'd like to say again that any assistance you give us is much appreciated and will not be forgotten by me personally.

how did usa and Turkiye become one of the closest allies of each other?

after2.W.W as u know,there were 2 powers to control the world;usA and soviets.
and STALIN threats Turkiye.he wanted istanbul and 2 cities in the east of Turkiye...or a Turk-RuS wAR :mad:
Russia's eye was always on BOSPHOROS to reach open seas TO GET THE LEADERSHIP df the world..
also Russia was one of the biggest reason of ottoman em. 'fall.

so ismet inonu have chosen the way of being very close to usa.
and have deliveried some important things to usa to be more closer:mad: :mad: :mad:
AND Turkiye joins nato.

A JAMES BOND MOVIE WAS FILMED ABUOT THIS.
the name of the film is FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE!!!
film mostly was shooted in Ýstanbul.

also World Is NOT eNOuGH HAS TAKEN some scenes from Istanbul.

Usa has won many advantages for being ally of Turkiye.
but Turkiye ? :(

[001]

simple explanation why France and Germany do not want to get involved.

The U.S........

You control the oil fields and the black gold

You have power to do what you want
you flood the market with cheap oil and destroy your competitiors economies by outcompeting them in a heavy price war, notably a Russian economy

Perhaps the economies of said european countries are at stake too.

You see, the only one who benfits from this war is the U.S and it will ensure worldwide political, military and economic dominace by the US for the next half century.

Maybe you can tempt to invite the european countries along, to supply some backing, save some money on missiles and killing machines, when you carry out the masacare of innocents including children. But i think even though you can reward them with some of the spoils of war, they unlike Bin Laden and Saddam realise the backstabbing tendancies the U.S seems to have. When you are no longer any use to the U.S you are an international terrorist or a rogue state


As History teaches us so well.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by 001
simple explanation why France and Germany do not want to get involved.

The U.S........

You control the oil fields and the black gold

You have power to do what you want
you flood the market with cheap oil and destroy your competitiors economies by outcompeting them in a heavy price war, notably a Russian economy

Perhaps the economies of said european countries are at stake too.

You see, the only one who benfits from this war is the U.S and it will ensure worldwide political, military and economic dominace by the US for the next half century.

Maybe you can tempt to invite the european countries along, to supply some backing, save some money on missiles and killing machines, when you carry out the masacare of innocents including children. But i think even though you can reward them with some of the spoils of war, they unlike Bin Laden and Saddam realise the backstabbing tendancies the U.S seems to have. When you are no longer any use to the U.S you are an international terrorist or a rogue state


As History teaches us so well.

:rolleyes: You mispelled the word wrong. It's not spelled s i m p l e. So your first line should read as follows:

"wrong explanation why France and Germany do not want to get involved."

It's clear to me that you support both Bin Laden and Saddam by this post, but then again I'm not surprised with some of the bullshit you post.

[001]

Originally posted by BLAUGRANA
:rolleyes: You mispelled the word wrong. It's not spelled s i m p l e. So your first line should read as follows:

"wrong explanation why France and Germany do not want to get involved."

It's clear to me that you support both Bin Laden and Saddam by this post, but then again I'm not surprised with some of the bullshit you post.

actually to be clear, i do not support either
Both are responsible for the death of innocents, just like George Bush and Ariel Sharon

[Wolfie]

Hiya chaps,
I've just slogged through this very long and laborius thread and can hardly belive what I am reading. Whether this debate is about national characteristics or allegiances is simply beside the point. Whether the U.S.A, Germany or any one else for that matter has committed atrocities in the past is nether here nor there. To read the so called 'allies' decrying each other is exactly what the monsters of this world want to hear.
FACT. Europe is not in dispute internally any more than it has ever been. This is why the ordinary people of the United Kingdom tend to disassociate themselves with Europe. Europe has been a pain in the backside for 500 years and more importently still is.
FACT. The attacks on the twin towers were made against the innocent people of the United States and anyone disputing it or backing it must find themselves enemies of the Free Democratic world.
FACT. Saddam has not only attacked neighbouring countries along his border but has used chemical weapons on his own innocent people.
We should not appease any one who wishes to take our freedom away.We have learnt that lesson much too our own cost. If this makes us 'American arse lickers' then so be it. You can all talk about after when we (the U.S.A. and G.B.) have finished the job again and brought your right to do so with British and American lives.

[Eyal Berkovic]

Originally posted by Mendieta
And you do??? Being the only country that nuked two cites killing babies, children, women! Unfriggen believable! The war against Japan would not have finished if it was`nt for those bombs. The Japs thought surrendor was a great shame and were taught death was much better than surrendor. A lot of Japs refused to believe their Country had given up until told so by their Generals. Read up on the subject before judging. The aim was to end the war and stop American Soldiers being killed.

[Eyal Berkovic]

Originally posted by Juan
The way I see it, France and Germany are hellbent in turning Europe into a superpower all by itself. Hear, hear I could`nt agree with you more. I am dead against being dragged into a Europe which is so split. I would prefer if Britain pulled out. We are fooled into believing there would be no trade if we pulled out. Its funny how Denmark, Iceland and Norway are getting on ok!

[Eyal Berkovic]

Originally posted by LeeXun
Why USA always wanna break out the war?
Maybe they have no place to train their soldiers.
We are human, not wild animals!

I agree with Mendita's word:If he had anything, he would have showed it to us a long time ago. Yes, Saddam, is responsible for millions of murders, just like the U.S is responsible for millions of Arabs being murdered and let's not forget the Japenese and Hiroshima. Your so naive, it is sickening. The way the Japanese treated their prisoners of war and their own soldiers was disgraceful. So before you take sides learn the facts. And being in China, you should know that Japans main goal was ruling Southern Asia. Including China!

[Eyal Berkovic]

Originally posted by Ronnie Raygun
"yeah, yeah, yeah.... Long live the MSL. We know... Believe me you don't even want to start debating football with me Georgia boy. Your way out of your league. I'll chew you up and spit you out before you can say the only player you probably know "Ronaldo". Ha,ha,ha... Stick to your American football." - Mensdiet

Yes, I can tell by that quote that you know plenty......(ha.)

"Why USA always wanna break out the war?
Maybe they have no place to train their soldiers.
We are human, not wild animals!"

We have plenty of places to train....Give me examples of always breaking out the war.

"I agree with Mendita's word:If he had anything, he would have showed it to us a long time ago."

Try this Wednesday.

"Yes, Saddam, is responsible for millions of murders, just like the U.S is responsible for millions of Arabs being murdered and let's not forget the Japenese and Hiroshima.

When did we murder millions of Arabs?

"Your so naive, it is sickening." - Leexung"

Well, then you're a communist pig.

"During the World Cup 2002 I've also visited Hiroshima. Anyone who wants to play with fire, should see that museum. I'm sorry that it is located in Hiroshima; I wish it would be in Washington." - Mate

I wish it were here too. I saw that museum once a few years back. You know that part where they have the model of the city after the bomb blew up? Well, I was standing at that model when this older man walked up and started pointing at the model and then pointing at me...Well, if you are familiar with the layout of Hiroshima after the bomb you would know that there was only one building left standing afterwards. .. . I pointed to that one building and said smiling .."look, we missed a spot".

I don't think there is a model of Pearl Harbor anywhere in Japan. No there is`nt. I got talking to a Japanese student here in England. He said he was never educated on the war properly. He did`nt even know about Pearl Harbour. That tells you something!

[Moon-Star]

Originally posted by Wolfie

FACT. Europe is not in dispute internally any more than it has ever been. This is why the ordinary people of the United Kingdom tend to disassociate themselves with Europe. Europe has been a pain in the backside for 500 years and more importently still is.


FACT.all the famous historians agree on something.the euope has lived 2 PEACE TERMS up to now.....

1-during the Roman Emperor Avgustus(i may wrote his name wrongly) which took 15 years.this term is called ''PAX ROMANO''

2-during the years of Ottoman Empire from 1450 to 1700(the years are not definite but more or less).This term is called
''PAX OTTOMANO''

regards,

[Wolfie]

Sorry Moonstar but there were a couple of little not so peaceful things during those periods like the thirty years war, for instance,reputed to be one of the most destructive fought on European soil as well as the many wars of religion.
The Roman Empire also fell apart just a bit longer ago than 500 years (about 1200) but I think Augustus campaigns on the Rhine also fit into this period. The Romans removed their garrisons from the U.K. about 600 AD because of revolt in mainland Europe.
As for famous historians try one called A.J.P. Taylor. I'm not being sarcastic but Europe has always been an area of internal dispute just look at the earlier debates in this thread, Greeks v Turks, French v Germans the list throughout history (and this thread) goes on and on.

[Moon-Star]

you misunderstood me ,Wolfie...
as u seen,i expressed time periods.
15 years during Avgustus i said.not all ROMAN empire time.
and while talking about Ottoman Empire i wanted to said from 1450 to 1600.
yep i made a mistake there by saying 1700.sorry i didnt notice it.but 30 years wars,king wars,napelon wars occured after ottoman empire had lost its power.
Ottoman Empire started to fall from 1600s.

about this thread,lol but there was one Greek and one Turk.so we cant say Greeks and Turks;)
and i believe the aim of thread changed.the aim became ''do u like germany and france'' i think. and yes as u said it went on..and went on

P.S:ofcourse some little things could happen in Pax Romano and Pax Ottomano periods.but they must not be taken seriously

in conclusion,i think europe will always be like this.i predic for the future.do u agree this or not?what do u think about the future of europe?i think we sould care about the future very much because our grandsons may not forgive us:D

[Wolfie]

The future of Europe will be,I am sure, very similer to it's past Moonstar. Hopefully not so violent. Europe tends to get caught up with it's own little petty squabbles and remains blind to the real problems in the World. In a way this reverts to the original point of this thread. That France see's only it's own interests by inviting Mugabe to Paris. Many, many people in his country are dying from starvation due to his blatant racisim. This is the picture should look at. That we should all look at. In this day and age people are starving to death through the sheer stupidity of world leaders interested only- in what-money!-oil!-you cannot eat money or oil.
Yes.Moonstar,I do worry for the future of our Grandchildren and all of us not just Europe should look at the bigger picture. The most important thing we can pass down to our 'Grandson's 'is their freedom and as I'm always saying,sometimes, it don't come cheap. Remember Iraqis have a future too one that can be altered for the better.
Some times a sharp decisive action can have a good effect.
Nice to talk to you

[Moon-Star]

you are right,wolfie.i strongly agree on vionece of europe in future.european countries will not fight.so our grandsons will not be able to see the violence between countreis.BUT
what about ''the social violance''?
the social life is going worse and worse day by day.
you remember a student killed so many his fellow friends at school in germany and things like this.THE FAMILIES lose their importance in social life :(
you reckon on a very good subject,Wolfie;rachiesizm
.in my opinion,it will cause so many problems in future.
unfortunately,this vision finds more supporter each day....
Le pen (who is shown as more of nationalizm) could compitite with chirac in second tour in france.
also i dont know the nam eof a leader but he was in austria and he was voted by so many people....etc
the european people started to vote the leaders who play with their national emotions.

and unemploymeent also seems as a very big problem.according to statics of 2002,the most incrase has occured in weastern europe countries iusa and canada.techo. is changing day by day and the human is needed less and less.
anywaysdid u hear this date2029?space scientists reckon this date and so many famous fortune tellers of past were talking about that period.

i think i should thank god for borning in 1984 after learning what will hapen to environment in future.:ronaldo:
nice to talk to u ,too

[CHRISTOS]

"edited"

[Moon-Star]

1-mongol? what a comedy :p i really want to know how your brains are washed!even calling Turks like that show u that you dont know anything about Turks.AND I WAS BORN IN ASIA PART AND I FEEL AS AN ASIAN.
AND I AM PROUD OF TO BE AN ASIAN :smoking:
2-the great roman empire divided by 2 empires in 375 ;east rome and west rome......
west rome was blasted in 476.....
east rome was blasted in 1453.;)istanbul was capital of east rome..

3-well,i ignore u if u dont want friendship.because in fact if your vision is acceptable,the side who doesnt want friendship
must be Turks.
if we think like you...
Because after1.world war everybody knows what was tried to be done againts Turks.

Thats why Atatürk is called ''THE RE-BIRTH OF A NATION''

4-well,we have changed 2-3 temples to mosques but can u say ,any mosque wasNT changed?
SECONDLY,today there are so many churches adn patrichtchanes. we allowed even u to built churches in our country.

what is more,i would understand if mosques are changed to churches,but using old ottoman mosques
AS CAFES????
no comment.

our time???LOL.OK,i am waiting......................
what will u going to do againts me?
well,i am proud of my nation.because

WE ALLOWED EVERYONE RELIGION FREEE
WE ALLOWED EVERYONE LANGUAGE FREE
WE ALLOWED EVERYONE BUSINESS FREE
in our control............

i ACHE at u!!!!!i will pray for u but dont have any hope:(

guys,i cant find any word to say.......do u?
yep Wolfie,you are right on something more :D:(

[Moon-Star]

Originally posted by Moon-Star
1-mongol? what a comedy :p i really want to know how your brains are washed!even calling Turks like that show u that you dont know anything about Turks.AND I WAS BORN IN ASIA PART AND I FEEL AS AN ASIAN.
AND I AM PROUD OF TO BE AN ASIAN :smoking:
2-the great roman empire divided by 2 empires in 375 ;east rome and west rome......
west rome was blasted in 476.....
east rome was blasted in 1453.;)istanbul was capital of east rome..

3-well,i ignore u if u dont want friendship.because in fact if your vision is acceptable,the side
who doesnt want friendship
must be Turks.if we think like you...
Because after1.world war everybody knows what was tried to be done againts Turks.

Thats why Atatürk is called ''THE RE-BIRTH OF A NATION''

4-well,we have changed 2-3 temples to mosques but can u say ,any mosque wasNT changed?
SECONDLY,today there are so many churches adn patrichtchanes. we allowed even u to built churches in our country.

what is more,i would understand if mosques are changed to churches,but using old ottoman mos.
AS CAFES????
no comment.

our time???LOL.OK,i am waiting......................

wellüi am proud of my nation.because

WE ALLOWED EVERYONE RELIGION FREEE
WE ALLOWED EVERYONE LANGUAGE FREE
WE ALLOWED EVERYONE BUSINESS FREE
in our control............

i ACHE at u!!!!!i will pray for u but dont have any hope:(

guys,i cant find any word to say.......do u?
yep Wolfie,you are right on something more :D:(

[HULK HOGAN]

Originally posted by CHRISTOS
Hei Moon-Star
1st. You aren't europeans cause you are mongols you haven't european blood.
2nd. Capitol of Greece is Kostadinoupoli (Istanbul? HA HA HA)
3rd. You are SLAYERS AND CRIMINALS
4th. Only our politicians want the friendship

When our LOOSERS POLITICIANS go away we will come to give freedom to OUR lands and AGIA SOFIA will be ORTHODOX TEMPLE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


GOOD TURKS= DEAD TURKS

YOUR TIME IS COMING

FREEDOM OR DEATH


You dumb greek you are pathetic the last time you guys accomplished anything was back in 9000 BC. Congratulations,

[gravesends]

What kind of shit is this christos you fukkin pig?????
You can't even take a bunch of little rocks let alone our beautiful city, yeah remember that a few years back??? One little special unit of Turkiye made all you shit your pants, christos you racist piece of shit not many kunts think like you except for your little brother toaek. If you keep talking shit I will personally come to your house and take your computer from you too you little herb.

[BLAUGRANA]

Originally posted by CHRISTOS


You're a loser.

I edited the quote because it is offensive and I don't want anyone to see it.

[Severus]

i'll make sure that this literal "mother fecking" racist pig gets a one way ticket out of here for his hateful remarks.

you see this is why i lobbied for a frequent user/s of the WSB to moderate this forum to prevent crap like this to reep it's ugly head. i or someone else would've had his posts edited by now !!!

this is absurd.

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[The Rule]

calm down

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